Irish politics discussion thread

inital public reaction is gonna change the more lee speaks.

probably right. his appearance on joe duffy had me squirming with embarrassment... jd was pressing him on what particular policies/principles had been rejected / ignored by FG, lee refused to be drawn which just makes no fucking sense to me. i do think he is a fucking idiot. kind of beautiful that he's still on leave of absence from RTE! maybe it was all an undercover thing for prime time...

don't know/care enough about FG's internal politics to guess at what this means for enda kenny as opposed to the wider party, but the party line seems steady for the moment, EK expressing presidential "regret" while Varadkar etc put the boot in.

a labour taoiseach eh? that would really be something. definitely seems like it's their time to shine. i'd personally like to see them stop courting coalition partners (so not gonna happen tho).

Ah no Lab needs FG. but even though they'll get in (please god they'll get in FFS) as a junior party in a coalition i can't see FG coming up with a Taoiseach. Enda will be gone before then, (though I'm really unsure who's placed to take over) and will be president before 2020.

never had much time for willie o'dea, but his comment on this was A+-

"George Lee was like FG's bidet- he gave them a touch of class but they didn't know what to do with him"

I very much doubt there will be a Labour Taoiseach unless they win more seats than FG, which is not very likely.

While it's a given that FG will have more seats, I'm not at all sure that they'll have a candidate for the top job. At the moment they're not sure that they even have a candidate for party leader to challenge the non-endaty

They will have a party leader, and whoever that is will be their candidate for the top job.

I know other countries sometimes see premiers from junior coalition parties, but it has never happened here, so it would be a real leap. We have only ever had one premier who was not leader of the largest coalition party, and even he was a TD of that party. So I reckon the premiership is in FG's gift, assuming they are the largest party in the next government (which may mean assuming that Labour does not coalesce with the soldiers of destiny again).

can't see labour breaking at the moment, but there's a serious dearth of ideas/profile/challengers in FG at the moment- I just see Gilmore as a much more taoiseachy prospect. maybe i'm just a crazy dreamer.

would love labour to be the senior partner, btw. FG don't deserve to lead a government, they've been little but a FF reserve outfit the past 20 years.

Mmmm yeah, but no real sign of Labour passing FG or FF any time soon.

maybe i'm just a crazy dreamer

maybe you are.

I'm actually holding out for the new party that Michael McDowell is reputedly about to launch.

anything that stretches out the margins a bit would maybe be welcome?

alternatively, any party with policies* as opposed to reactions to headlines would be a victory worth taking the week off work for.

* not the green party thanks they're imbeciles..

Angry Enda is maybe more embarrassing than corrupt Bertie.

fg=ff basically we are going to hell no matter what happens imo

LABOUR TAOISEACH MAAAAAN

get that sad sack face off and let's make this shit happen imo

yah like thats how i vote but its not srsly gonna happen anytime soon lets call a spade a spade

it will happen. there will soon be no alternative, post-enda breakdown, post FF unelectable.

yah, also kill all old ppl and creepy young ff types

plenty tossers in labour too as far as i recall

plenty fuckerz generally iirc

not voting for fuckers is impossible, so vote them out regularly and at least the brighter fuckers will eventually get the message that you're watching them reeeall closely.

"I am a victim here too"

http://evertb.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/willie.jpg

D'you think if we told the wider ILX about this guy they'd even believe us?

Who is he?

he is our minister for defence, and the govt are fully behind him.

He told a local newspaper that a local councillor in his constituency had involvement in running a brothel, then submitted a sworn statement denying this in the ensuing defamation case. Despite being on tape. He's actually pretty representative of his party, the majority member of govt.

I uh...I realise that may be disappointingly bland after the pic.

yeah this fucking guy

pretty much the go to guy in limerick iirc and and a living testament to how ff r just a racket

also genuinely a freaky looking dude. just....no

remember q's outside my village local of people looking for favours from Papa Willie back in the 80's

'shure idnt he a self taught barrister, fair play to him!'

^^yeah, same old last time i checked in that pub i can never remember the name of

When was the last time a FF TD resigned, I wonder?

Ray Burke? He resigned government and Dáil all in one "fuck the lot of yis" go.

It would be great if it turned out that O'Dea had been carefully promoting his pals in the army, to such an extent that he came back as Generalissimo next week. Then you'd be sorry.

I'm a bit sorry he's gone - I've always had a sneaking regard for him, but there should be no room for perjurers at the top table.

first step in collapse of government, or just another distasteful episode that they'll get away with (going back to, oh, the aforementioned Biffo, right?)

i'm not sorry he's gone, he's a good encapsulation of FF arrogance, if not the embodiment of all of their worst traits in one person (that'd be O'Donoghue)

Genuinely, is there anyone out there with experience in carrying out a political coup? Bloodless if possible, but the alternative will work also in a pinch.

Darraghmac, If you're still interested in a coup, I believe the classic text is 'Coup d'État: A Practical Handbook' by Edward Luttwak. I remember liking it, but I haven't read it for years.

i will keep this in mind. hope willie doesn't get there first.

now, if only someone could take enda aside and teach him to read as well as he writes, he'd actually stand a chance:

The following is the full statement by Fine Gael Leader, Enda Kenny TD on the resignation of Minister for Defence, Willie O’Dea

“Resigning his position in Cabinet must have been very difficult for Willie O’Dea and a very trying event for his family. However, Willie O'Dea's resignation was an inevitable consequence of his swearing of a false affidavit before the High Court.

“The refusal of the Taoiseach and his colleagues in government to demand any accountability for this behaviour was the reason that I tabled a motion of no confidence in Deputy O'Dea on Tuesday night.

“Now that he has bowed to the inevitable, he leaves behind a cabinet whose credibility is in tatters. Despite knowing the full facts, the Taoiseach and his Fianna Fail and Green ministers queued up just yesterday to vehemently support Deputy O'Dea, to assert that he had done nothing wrong other than a simple human mistake, and to vote complete confidence in him.

“This debacle raises fundamental questions about the Taoiseach's willingness to enforce proper standards of behaviour in his Government. Despite knowing the facts of this situation since December, Brian Cowen apparently didn't even ask for an explanation until the issue became the subject of a newspaper editorial earlier this week. The tenor of his subsequent defence of Willie O'Dea, during which the Taoiseach said that Deputy O'Dea had met his standard, casts serious doubt about this Taoiseach's understanding of the type of conduct that should be required of cabinet ministers. His handling of this crisis leaves a huge question mark over his judgement and credibility as Taoiseach.

“This affair also leaves the government in disarray. The main partner has confirmed that the Fianna Fail code of ethics has been safely passed on to this generation of the party.

“The junior partners, the Greens, have been emphatically and decisively humiliated and have confirmed their role as Fianna Fail's mudguard.

“Finally, the third leg of this shaky stool, the remnants of the PDs, have confirmed that any sense of values that existed when that party was founded have been well and truly abandoned in favour of retaining power at any cost.”

what a fascinating country you live in!

i have no indication as to whether that's sarcasm or not max.

i have spent like 20 minutes reading about ff and fg and i still cant figure out what the difference is between them on any issue except europe

you have grasped it fully imo

the difference between them- ff are in power constantly, and fg aren't.

exciting!

i have no indication as to whether that's sarcasm or not max.

but i suspect that it is- the only answer i have is that they're the only politicians we've got, for the time being.

no i mean it! i think!

i have gravely erred in fact in what i told you- the big difference between FF and FG is that FF are against the treaty and FG, while admitting it's imperfections, think it is a document that can be used to pave the way to full independence in time.

that's a fairly big difference, in fairness.

the treaty here is not some EU treaty, but a treaty signed 90 years ago between Britain and Ireland.

its ok, as far as i can tell were still fighting about slavery in the US

loooool