The (Now-Overrated) ILX Top 100 Films of the 2000s Poll Results

on the moon

Goddamn The Host and Together for having generic enough names for me to completely overlook them when compiling my ballot.

oh damn i totally missed Ratatouille being in the list, so that's one from my ballot so far

OK, this is the last time I'm noting that Kubrick devised the ending of A.I. And ending with David at the bottom of the sea -- wtf, really?

I dunno, it struck me as perfect 70s type bleakout ending a la two lane blacktop, also would make perfect sense if you were high dude

It would've been cheaply bleak, sure, but it would not have matched the total, desperate bleakness of the real ending. If you think it was a happily-ever-after that David got to spend just one more day with the mother he was forever programmed to worship, possibly dooming her soul to obliteration in the process, and then suicidally shutting his now irrevocably solipsistic (i.e. finally human) CMS down completely, then I can only expect John Williams' warm music score deafened you to the extreme tonal dischord Spielberg was working with between the presentation of that final scene and the actual content.

That last scene is chilling, but it is told through David's (i.e. Spielberg's) contented eyes.

yeah, i guess. i did read the rosenbaum thing on it too and, i mean, i agree with him, those themes are all there and everything, but ... i don't know, it's all kind of pro forma sci-fi stuff, you know? there are a gazillion stories and books about robots and artificial intelligence that all grapple with the same basic themes of what it means to be human and yadda yadda. (see also blade runner, obviously.) i didn't feel like spielberg really brought a lot to the table on that front. and the contrast between the kubrick and spielberg vibes in the movie is interesting, but i'm more on the doesn't-quite-work side of that debate than the two-great-tastes side. (two directors, one cup.)

(i still like the movie and would like to see it again, which is more than i can say for munich.)

Sure, I grant there are probably about six dozen Ray Bradbury short stories that probably delve into similar territory, but I can't think of many films. (Blade Runner not a comparison point, imo.)

Again, it really isn't the tale but how it's told. I've seen very few Hollywood epics that engage in such a strong dissociation between what they're telling and how.

And I also consider it a mistake to dwell too much on the Kubrickian influence. He gave the movie away. What ended up on the screen is no longer his.

Can I also say I am one of those johnny come latelys who discovered Armond White in the aftermath of A.I.? And that his sensitive, astute pair of reviews on the movie were strong enough to make me pay attention to him throughout most of the rest of the decade, despite rapidly mounting evidence that he's not sane?

there's a similar dissociation in munich, but my problem there (and to some degree in a.i.) is i honestly can't tell how much spielberg's in control of that. with him i often feel like there's this unresolved tension between his instincts as an entertainer and this desire to grapple with Important Themes, which i tend to find more off-putting than engrossing and i think tends to shortchange both ends of the equation.

Yes, he clearly should be making his important movies with Al Gore and Powerpoint.

i like that he keeps trying and the results can be interesting, but afaic (and allowing for great moments in several of the movies) he hasn't made a "masterpiece" since raiders.

Yeah, I guess if the verdict is still out on on Spielberg being in control of his apparatus even now ... then I guess his riskier, increasingly conflicted '00s movies were never going to be an easy sell in the first place.

i just don't see the evidence that he is in control. he goes off-key way too often, and some of his movies (like minority report) feel full of editing-room patch jobs to me where he's trying to make pieces add up but can't find his way through. totally respect his skills, but seriously question his vision (or whatever you'd call it -- the clarity of his ideas and ability to carry them through).

That conflict has made him a much more interesting artist imo.

xpost Yep, what I said. If you weren't already digging on his technique before, the fractured fable quality of his best '00s work is only apt to increase the antipathy.

(i.e. If you think he's a great entertainer but iffy at best as a thinker)

You'd have heard the same from me when I was 19. You DO comprehend how the impression something made on yr altered consciousness tells me nothing about it, right?

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Saturday, February 6, 2010 7:56 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think you're missing the point of when i said "i was too blazed to understand what was going on" - that was not me claiming any sort of special insight

like i said, i've never seen any good case for s.s. as a "thinker." attributing the gap between what he attempts and what he delivers to some kind of deliberate bifurcation of form and content is a very generous way of grading him, but i guess i don't feel like the billionaire machinist of jurassic park and kingdom of the crystal skull particularly needs my generosity.

Am I the only person who liked Polanski's The Pianist? I can't remember it being mentioned in either thread.

yes

tipsy and Gubke both OTM re: Spielberg. And, again, I say this as someone who really likes most of his movies (the last decade included). Even WOTW, which I think was ultimately a failure, had an amazing first half. Dude's got amazing skills, but maybe he needs an amazing collaborator to really put those skills to their best use.

there's always at least one misstep (usually owing to his gross [in the 'amount' sense of the word] sentimentality) in every spielberg movie that takes me out of his world, which suggests either a LACK of control on his part or a difference of opinion in what we both want out of a film or both.

i mean hell munich might have even made a putative top forty for me if not for the EPIPHANY DURING SWEATY CLIMAX bit

not as bad as the epic and unforgettable zoom-in NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! from crash (which was hot garbage throughout, natch) but probably the last time i felt so "wtf?" from a director ladling it on

spielbergs gross [in multiple senses of the word] sentimentality kinda points to a disdain for his audience - prob why morbs likes him so much

with him i often feel like there's this unresolved tension between his instincts as an entertainer and this desire to grapple with Important Themes, which i tend to find more off-putting than engrossing and i think tends to shortchange both ends of the equation. - add his need for schmaltz & his tendency to drive his own metaphors home w/ a sledgehammer & this sums up my problems with Spielberg pretty much. Not that I don't love many of his films, but his work is great in so many other respects that it is troubling to see him get repeatedly tripped up with these hurdles, esp. when it comes to his BIG IMPORTANT MOVIES.

Am I the only person who liked Polanski's The Pianist? I can't remember it being mentioned in either thread.

― Home Taping Is Killing Muzak (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Saturday, February 6, 2010 1:18 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it was on my list

am loving Kings & Queens mixing it up with Wet Hot American Summer, even if i stuck mostly with Auteurs (and purveyors of Evil). Not holding out hope for Reprise or my #1 (Head-On) but you jerks better give some love to 4 Months 3 Weeks 2 Days and the Five Obstructions.

btw Pianist almost made my list, am suspicious that new polanski The Ghost Writer might turn out to be pretty great.

Reactions 2:

Amélie: Remember a good sex scene at least, or was that Unfaithful?
The 25th Hour: Gone from memory, didn't love Norton, but will give it another chance.
Ratatouille: Funny and plotful, will get kids cooking, but it's tough to make something magical about food unless it's a metaphor for something else, and the way Remy has more taste than all the other rats doesn't sit well.
Far From Heaven: Hadn't heard of Sirk when I saw it, which might be the better way to love this, but there's still something anticlimactic about its shape.
Synecdoche, New York: Best midlife crisis ever, so funny, but to really work it should have gone on for another hour with nothing happening.
A.I.: Love the beginning and "We are in a cage," but loses me with that carnival and Jude Law, a little too archly Wizard of Oz or something.
Kung Fu Hustle: Amazing scenes, but thing is, Bugs Bunny was a good character.
Wet Hot American Summer: Nothing as transcendent as the "It just doesn't matter" Meatballs speech, but this is probably one to rent again.
Sexy Beast: Ben Kingsley just not credible as a badass for me.
The Host: Great what-is-wrong-with-this-picture horror meets what-is-wrong-with-this-tone social commentary--third movie I voted for.
You Can Count On Me: Fwiw, it's gets better the second time, Morbius. The scene with the pastor is very cinematic. Fourth vote.

Pastor played by Kenneth Lonergan himself, incidentally.

I can understand people not being fans of Sexy Beast but I can't understand not rating Kingsley's performance.

Partly because Kingsley isn't a straight badass in the movie - he's the kid from your class at school who you never considered as a hard case but who ended up being expelled for some unspeakable act of violence against another student.

lol i love how everyone is just so terrified of him

don is coming omg DON don DON holy shit don don don don

Unpredictable lunacy always makes for scarier film baddies than cold ruthless badness.

all these abrevs are really confusing me btw

― ice cr?m

yeah me too, if ppl would try to type out titles and thing a bit more, would appreciate the extra effort! at least for this thread, esp. where it's not super-obvious. the guy you're talking to obv knows, but for a general audience it's hard to keep track sometimes. i mean wtf is a A.I?

the scene where they're all sitting in winstone's living room is fucking unbearable (in the good way)

totally

i love how the whole time yr wondering if this guy is really that bad, are they overreacting, why not just kill him - but then its like well i guess theyre the ones that know him, the rules of their criminal culture, and the potential consequences of their actions - and you become bewildered paranoid and powerless yrself

yeah one great thing about sexy beast is how it totally subverts the heist movie. usually you're focused on the heist and what's going to go wrong, but in sexy beast the suspense is completely relocated elsewhere.

i love how with a couple of exceptions where he acts out, logan's menace is almost entirely in the reactions to him—and he has almost no discernible backstory, either. it's all implied.

so ya, what u dudes said

i love how perfect his posture is too, that is the most amazing character detail

icey, just put the friggin bong down. Your morbsbait is impaired.

do you have a link to ur official eod list?

It isn't up yet. Maybe next week if there aren't anymore oh-so-important EOD music lists....

i mean hell munich might have even made a putative top forty for me if not for the EPIPHANY DURING SWEATY CLIMAX bit

...and in which I specifically address the obtuseness in ridiculing this scene.

munich is on my list, sex scene or no.

Munich is on my list, and the sex scene is one reason it's so high up.

Wish I could killfile everyone else on ILX but only when they're talking about Spielberg.

icey, just put the friggin bong down. Your morbsbait is impaired.

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Saturday, February 6, 2010 5:24 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well gdamn it another saturday afternoon ruined

i woulve put munich on my list but i forgot - that and before night falls are my big oversights iirc

should maybe take a break from the bong when you're compiling your lists bro

*_*