Buffy

haha THEY KILLED CORDI AGAIN but the whole episode was kind of a wash (s3e09), you basically knew all the stuff happening in bizarro world was just gonna get undone anyway.

they had a reason to be upset but i'd agree with the out-of-character criticism, that's exactly the same way i felt

Yeah, it's weird -- once or twice every season, someone will do something that feels out-of-character or outlandish purely to motivate a storyline, and it riles me up WAY more on Buffy than it would on any other show. Maybe because otherwise the characters are so well-drawn and consistent?

This thread is killing me, I want to go back and watch S3 but I don't have the tiiiiiiiiime

ok so right after a pretty average episode they go and throw an "amends" at us

glad oz and will seem to be back on track...tbh xander is getting on my nerves and he doesnt deserve cordi.

the end of this episode where angel wants to kill himself and buffy argues him out of it is really moving, that conversation had so many layers and when buffy told him she loved him i lost it. seems like he's still gotta get whatever that evil force is/jenny calendar off his back? and where is spike!

Anya has turned up! Spike went back for Dru didn't he to compete against the fungus demon for her affections?

Xander is basically a dick, see. Watching him descend to that level of dickishness is uncomfortable but I think true to his character. I think in the second half of season 2 he finally felt that (with Angel discredited) he could be the hero both for the group and for Buffy personally, and Angel's return infuriated him for that reason more than any other.

(i still like him though - his dickishness feels rather sympathetic to me)

i know what you're saying but i just can't take him being such a selfish prick all the time, plus EVERY TIME there's a tense situation he has the lamest one-liners, STOP IT ALREADY

and lol as if i couldn't dislike joyce any more, she's a crazy witchhunting right-winger

that wasn't her fault; she was under the influence of those children of the corn! joyce is the best.

willow's mom is an asshole though

Ok, Band Candy was when I warmed to Joyce. By the end of season 4 though, she was absolutely <3

i eventually warmed up to Joyce, too. Xander, unfortunately...

WHAAAAAAT

Wait, what's the what, k3v???

just watched "consequences" - it's the one after faith kills the deputy mayor and she tries to blame buffy.

gotta say i kinda was loving faith when she was toying with xander in her room, even tho i was feeling bad for xander for once when he was sulking after finding out that faith basically had no interest in him. poor willow too, but she has oz!

anyway so now she's gonna team up with the mayor?? ruh-roh!

It begins... :D

the next episode up is totally classic, and contains what might be my favorite Angel moment on Buffy. Bear in mind that I didn't like Angel that much when he was on Buffy and I mostly enjoyed dumb jokes at his expense.

I started watching S3 again but that disc w/ Bad Girls and Consequences on is dead from scratches. :(

<3 kev watching this for the first time. did the zeppo make you start liking xander? he's supposed to be pathetic and awkward, like we would be if we knew buffy's secret

The run of episodes from Consequences to the Finale is a pretty amazing sustained feat of brilliance IMO.

god i could have sworn this demon guy in "enemies" was the same guy who played Ziggy on the wire...same exact voice

nb haven't finished the ep yet

"...second best"

*slow-mo wtf head turn*

!!!!!!!

god if angel ever for real turns again i don't think my heart can take it

Speaking of (but not spoilerizing), are you at all considering a trip down Angel lane once you've wrapped up your Buffy glut? Because, although the shows are certainly two different animals and Angel doesn't really seem to have a very solid concept of what it wants to be for a good part of its first season, it really gets very, very good as it progresses. And it takes the arcs of certain popular Buffy characters to magnificent heights (and lows!!!).

i'm thinking i'll probably get around to that over the summer, depending on where i am with buffy and the wire. should i watch them side by side? would it be bad to finish buffy first?

Ehh...aside from a couple of crossover episodes in Buffy season 4/Angel season 1, they're pretty separate. There are definitely some good arguments for watching at least the crossover episodes in question when the time comes, but I think you'd be fine watching Angel straight through after the fact, as well.

Season 1 of Angel/Season 4 of Buffy are linked in a way that you most probably want to watch them side by side. If only for *OH MY FUCKING GOD BEST EPISODES EVER*- sorry, no spoilers and all that.

After that Angel meets a gay karoake demon and turns into a comedy and forgets about its sister show.

Though it's probably not worth doing the whole project of watching the series simultaneously, I liked the way Angel S4/Buffy S7 did some cool intersections/character trading... though it's my favorite Angel season and the worst Buffy season.

is this where i say that altho i <3 buffy 4e the last four episodes of angel are the most awesome buffyverse send-off we cud have expected

Yeah, without a doubt!

So this is the part where I sadly admit that (despite owning it for probably 5+ years at this point), I only ever made it halfway through that last season of Angel. And it was so good even up to the point where I stopped! I don't know what's wrong with me. But I'm actually really excited by the prospect of rewatching the whole series as a precursor to finishing the damn thing already.

i kinda think angel is pretty bad until the last series or two. The last few episodes are this ridic jump in quality tho.

First season is a little hard to get through, it's barely above Charmed quality. Some of the Darla stuff in S2 was all right, and S3 had some fun stuff, especially with Holtz and that thing with the talking cheeseburger. But yeah, the last two seasons are way way better than the rest of it. Deric, don't feel bad about skipping to S4, seriously!

I agree that S1 was a little sketchy until it found its footing (around the time of the Buffy crossovers), but I really, really liked the majority of what followed. Especially since it was kind of all one big story that just kept building! Like, I have a really hard time demarcating the individual seasons of Angel in my head the way I can with Buffy.

The network fucked with ANGEL relentlessly early on. One ep it's dark and moody and For Grownups, the next it's all madcap hijinx. You need to get through Season 1. After that the suits basically stopped caring and turned their eyes to other things and things got much, much better.

I can make you an 'angel the way it should be watched' complete list if you want.

I'd read and probably use that list (seen every episode of Buffy and pretty much none of Angel).

I'll get on it after my caffeine boost.

First season of angel is v. poor but i think the episode abt Doyle is v. good. Really think it starts picking up in the 2nd though, the darla stuff is v. good and the flashbacks and whatnot. Also Wesley is immense.

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 1>

City Of- Pilot, pretty important.

Lonely Heart- Introduction of Kate.

In The Dark- Spike + Oz + Torture

RM W/A VU- A+ Cordy ep.

The Bachelor Party- Precursor to Pangs on Buffy, which in itself is a precursor to...

I Will Remember You- BUFFY! On Angel!

Hero- Doyle's important episode.

Parting Gifts- The return of Wesley.

Somnambulist- Angel v. Fake Angel, Kate starts to learn about vamps n shit.

The Prodigal- More Kate. Kinda dull but for story's sake.

The Ring- Angel turns Fight Club.

Eternity- ANGELUS!

Five by Five- omg faith omg faith omg faith

Sanctuary- omg faith omg buffy aswell!

War Zone- First Gunn episode.

(Blind Date's description sounds like it could be worth watching but I don't remember it. Will watch later to say whether it is worth it or not.)

To Shanshu In LA- Finale fun times.

Overall this turns a 5/10 season into a 7/10 season. Had to keep some kind of boring episodes so you meet new characters etc.

Episodes that skips: I Fall To Pieces (boring monster of the week), Sense & Sensitvity (Kate back story), The Bachelor Party (Doyle back story), Expecting (lol pregnant cordy), She (meh other dimension chick angel wants to bone), I've Got You Under My Skin (monster of the week), Blind Date (maybe).

Will do Season 2 in a bit.

oh god, pregnant cordy episode ws horrendous.

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 2>

I've looked it up and you can't really cut out any episodes. Maybe First Impressions but that is all lol cordy goes to the ghetto and why would you want to miss that?

Best season imo.

aw man, that Angel in the monster Fight Club thing was so cheesy, like so many Star Trek meets Spartacus episodes

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 3>

That Vision Thing- Important Cordy ep iirc.

That Old Gang of Mine- Gunn + Fred adjusting to new life.

Fredless- Fred's parents.

Offspring- Darla shiz. Important ep, the name itself a spoiler.

Quickening- Aftermath of Offspring.

Lullaby- Introduction of Connor and Holtz.

Dad- ummmmm...

Birthday- Cordy gets her own tv show!

Waiting In The Wings- WS Summer Glau

Couplet- Cordy's knight in shining armour returns.

Loyalty- Wesley! omg!

Sleep Tight- See last description.

Forgiving- See last two descriptions, but for different reasons. Also ;_; Angel.

Double Or Nothing- Kinda lame monster of the week ep, but good for Fred+Gunn.

A New World- Connor returns!

Benediction- Lots of important shit. Amazing episode iirc.

Tomorrow- Anti-climatic after Benediction but v. v. v. v. important.

Episodes I skipped> Heartthrob (kind of lame, only worth it for Darla's big news that you'll find out about later anyway.), Carpe Noctum (monster of the week type, angel swaps personalities w/ an old dude), Billy (wolfram & hart are evil), Provider (monster of the week x. 4 as the gang are spread out), The Price (monster of the week).

yeah it was cheesy as hell but I liked it. Plus iirc it's got some good early Wolfram & Hart stuff, especially w/ the chick Wesley will go on to bone.

oh yeah i totally forgot about her! she was also on that Kindred: The Embraced show

Whole Connor arc is fucked up beyond belief. It feels like they were constantly changing their mind abt what they wanted to do with him.

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 4>

Deep Down- Wow, so that's where Cordy is? lol never saw that coming when I first saw Welcome To The Hellmouth.

Ground State- This week on Angel, 'Alias!' But without Jennifer Garner and cute actress instead, so it's kind of fun.

The House Always Wins- Lorne has his own show in Vegas!

Slouching Towards Bethlehem- Cordy returns as amnesiac girl.

Apocalypse, Nowish- Wooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Habeas Corpses- Connor + Big Bad= Woah.

Long Day's Journey + Awakening = More Beast.

Soulless- Well you can guess.

Calvary + Salvage + Release + Orpheus- Angelus v. Faith = best tv ever, really.

Players- Pregnant Cordy, but not in a lame way like the episode in S1.

Inside Out- Angel has a lol conversation with a demon about the Matrix. Can't remember any other part, may have to pull out the vhs.

Shiny Happy People- Wussherface from Firefly! Oh shit.

Actually, all of the last 4 episodes worth watching.

Episodes I skipped> Supersymmetry (Boring Fred ep), Spin The Bottle (The exact same episode as Tabula Rasa on Buffy).

Yeah Connor is Dawn Pt. 2 in boring shrieking teenagers. Joss obv split too much between shows to give the writers a slap.