what are barack obama's flaws?

^^^yes

neoliberal predates neocon

(at least, the terminology does afaict)

it means a belief in the market, deregulatin' and privatizin' shit imo. so the clints was a neoliberal.

Really? I first saw it used by The New Republic in the eighties about Gary Hart types.

neoliberal like that accomodationist sellout booker t washington?

neoliberal predates neocon

neocon is a sort of bewildering term, the way its used. but i think they happened almost simultaneously, from the late 1960s. neocons are guys like podhoretz and kristol. neoliberals are like milton friedman and hayek. i guess they'd existed before then, but so had strauss. they began to catch impt ppl's ears in the 1970s -- thatcher, pinochet, reagan's guys.

yeah that might be coincidental! xp to alfred

i always thought neo-liberal meant the modern strain of Liberalism, with laissez faire free market connotations. not like clintonian dems.

all the words "neoliberal" and stuff--they basically just mean "political view i dont agree with" right?

Long before Hitchens left the reservation he derided "neoliberalism" as the thinking of exhausted sixties pols who couldn't figure out how to beat the Reagan Revolution, so they supported "national defense," public anti-Soviet belligerence, and tax relief.

no! it's like neocon, there is a precise meaning. or a few of them. xp

i always thought neo-liberal meant the modern strain of Liberalism, with laissez faire free market connotations. not like clintonian dems.

― u b ilxin' (Hunt3r), Friday, January 29, 2010 4:43 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

clinton believed in laissez faire economics tho. maybe a bit less rabidly than reagan, but still.

all the words "neoliberal" and stuff--they basically just mean "political view i dont agree with" right?

― max, Friday, January 29, 2010 4:44 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

up to a point, but they have some irl meaning.

i mean i know there is some kind of "dictionary definition" but

yall i did graduate from college

people using them sloppily is a problem.

The prefix is accurate: a "new conservative," which is why so many former Democrats (especially those in Scoop Jackson's orbit) claim the title: Krauthammer, Perle, Podhoretz, the two Kristols, Jeanne Kirkpatrick.

i don't know shit but, to me:

neoliberal---"right winger" whose prevailing interest is in free markets
neoconservative---"right winter" whose prevailing interest is in "values" (which can range widely from the economic to the moral)

lol typ

o

eoconservative---"right winter" whose prevailing interest is in "values" (which can range widely from the economic to the moral)

Not quiet true. Most neocons are "moderate" on social issues; their bugaboo is defense.

*quite

hey max, the two root words are "neo" meaning new, and "liberal", which may refer to any one of a few different political movements. do you see the confusion? i hope i helped you out!

sigh

maybe we can go over the difference between the american and european uses of the word "liberal" next

Not quiet true. Most neocons are "moderate" on social issues; their bugaboo is defense.

― Blue Fucks Like Ben Nelson (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, January 29, 2010 10:49 AM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah that actually sounds more accurate. i guess it's kind of a rhombus/square thing to me: neocons are very likely to be neoliberal, but not necessarily vice versa

Not quiet true. Most neocons are "moderate" on social issues; their bugaboo is defense.

― Blue Fucks Like Ben Nelson (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, January 29, 2010 10:49 AM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark

i dunno, they talk about defense the most, in a "war makes societies great" kind of way, but the kristol's wrote all kinds of shit about how a victorian shame and propriety is some kind of ideal iirc. they weren't southern-style racists, is the thing.

(max i was trying to be funny)

god I fucking hate the Kristols

apropos of nothing...

ugh extra apostrophe there

xp

suzy, how about if you're a black writer like Adolph Reed Jr? I guess you made an assumption.

I guess you made an assumption about what I know! Which I'm sure you never, ever do to anyone who contributes here.

My complaint was that the description could seem 'racist OR patronizing' (and I was trying not to throw the skin of the writer in the game to prove a point/bait you).

(max i was trying to be funny)

― goole, Friday, January 29, 2010 11:52 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dude

success?

Republicans Ready to Spar With Obama
By CARL HULSE

BALTIMORE — It’s the rumble in Baltimore as House Republicans take on President Obama today.

Gathered for a retreat in the Renaissance Hotel overlooking the blue-collar city’s famous harbor and historic Fort McHenry, members of the conservative Republican House Conference say they are itching to quiz the president and present their policy ideas rather than listen to another lofty presidential address.

“House Republicans welcome any opportunity to present our better solutions,” said Representative Mike Pence of Indiana, the No. 3 House Republican and the organizer of the House retreat.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/republicans-ready-to-spar-with-obama/?partner=rss&emc=rss

Obama's biggest flaw is that he's going to be taking Mike Pence seriously.

Bill Kristol shouldn't enter this discussion frankly, cuz he'd fuck his own mother with an MX missile if it got him RNC access.

I'm sure Reed would call Bill Clinton a smooth talker too.

I prefer "slick hustler" for both 42 & 44. (41 & 43 didn't achieve slickness.)

xxxxxp

Most neocons are "moderate" on social issues

idk, guys like podhoretz, allan bloom, saul bellow, are at least bigtime cultural conservatives, and had a p big problem with post-1960s um permissiveness (trying not to use liberal there, would cause confusion).

Bloom and Bellow are "fellow travelers."

allan bloom, damn, forgot about that m-fer

if o wants to keep identifying himself as the neo-reagan in these bizarre matrix times, he might want to take a page from how hard and how long ronnie went after carter, all the way till his re-election campaign i think? the bush disaster should be the political gift that keeps on giving, but somehow it hasn't been too much lately

dude were you not listening to his SOTU?! it was like %75 Dubya-bashing!

yeah i was listening and i want him to keep it up! all year through the midterms. not so sure mr. bipartisanship will be as consistent or good at it as reagan was, is all i'm saying, and bush is way, way bigger a target than jimmy ever was

the better extract in that Nation piece is from Dr. Marcia Angell:

As for healthcare, my area of expertise, the reform bill Obama is cobbling together wrongly retains the central role of the private insurance companies and requires millions of people to buy their products at whatever price they charge. True, some of the industry's discriminatory practices would be outlawed, but if that adds to their costs, they can simply raise premiums. The pharmaceutical industry can also continue to charge whatever it likes. If the bill is fully implemented (which I doubt), it may restrain the growth of government health spending, which is all the CBO cares about, but it will surely increase inflation in the rest of the system. Obama knows that a single-payer system is the only way to provide universal care while controlling costs, but he was unwilling to throw his weight behind it. All he seems to want now is the political victory of getting a health bill passed--any bill, no matter how untenable.

My sharpest moment of disappointment came when the administration supported the prohibition against buying lower-priced drugs from Canada and Europe. During his campaign, Obama promised to end this absurd restriction, but now he's siding with the pharmaceutical industry.

It's not enough to understand what needs to be done; the president has to be willing to fight for it and, yes, take political risks.

The biggest laff in the Nation piece, published about 12 days ago, is the handful who said Obama's apex is, of course, enacting healthcare reform. (Just one thinks to throw in "Assuming...")

well if I'm hauling out my cynic hat my favorite was the bit from the New Yorker editor whose gravest disappointment in the first year of the Obama admin is ppl who are mean to Obama

Obama can "take political risks" all he wants but if Congress won't pass it what the fuck's the point? I agree with every word Angell says except for this idea - which seems widely shared - that if Obama just somehow exercised his will more effectively, Congress would transmogrify into an assemblage of people who would actually vote for single-payer

"Why doesn't he use the magic wand?? I know he's got it in his pocket.. he just won't USE it!"

so we're back at "asking a guy to put himself on the line about something" = "asking for miracles"

plus ca change

I learned that from a Rush song btw

That's all takes I guess - all he has to do is "put himself on the line" and Congress will just fall like ninepins! Why won't he use the magic wand??

yup...zero people actually saying that, but if it makes you happy, I'm happy

well if I'm hauling out my cynic hat my favorite was the bit from the New Yorker editor whose gravest disappointment in the first year of the Obama admin is ppl who are mean to Obama

ugh hendrik hertzberg fuck him