― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link
hahaha, unlike New York, Chicago or Los Angeles? Please.
It's too sprawly to be a city but Orange County has the highest concentration of republican voters in California.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link
Richmond, Virginia. And probably the capitals of many other red states.
― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 18 October 2004 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link
Please, yourself.
Probably Dallas, too. Maybe Phoenix, maybe Atlanta.
Denver is republican. is San Diego democratic?
In 2000, Gore beat or destroyed (2-1 or more) Bush in Richmond County, VA, Denver County, CO and Clayton, DeKalb County, and Fulton Counties, GA.
San Diego, Dallas and Houston appear to be different stories, though Clinton came within a point and a half of Dole in Dallas and San Diego Counties in 96 when Perot pushed the GOP vote down to the mid-40s, and he won San Diego in 92 when all three counties went heavily for Perot.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:27 (nineteen years ago) link
I don't know Chicago or San Diego very well, or Dallas at all, but my impression is that the first category of cities have a density, cores and transportation patterns that requires citizens to confront diversity in ways that the second category does not. While density alone might not tell the story (Dallas more urban than Trenton?), the figures show that NY metro is twice as dense as Dallas or Houston, LA nearly 3 times, San Diego closer to Texas than NY, and Chicago halfway between. Reduce things down to NYC or Manhattan and the effect is magnified.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link
The grid (the original document) and the annexation of the boroughs helped make it distinctive and to some are the opposite of 'sprawl'.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― k3rry (dymaxia), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link
x-post.
― Nemo (JND), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link
*by definition = a sprawl/conglomeration. It would be much more interesting if it measured straight density according to city limits, not by arbitrary boundaries.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:36 (nineteen years ago) link
and city limits are arbitrary boundaries
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link
Are you talking http://fthevote.com/? I can see why that might be exhausting.;^}
― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― Nemo (JND), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link
Megapoli:Megapoli are huge sprawling conglomerations of housing, commercial interests and sundry support and entertainment facilities.
I think that geography/topography are the primary challenges to sprawl (cf, hong kong, macau, singapore). you may consider them arbitrary, but at the very least city limits at least provide a consistent measure of fixed population growth. you can not say the same for megapoli.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:46 (nineteen years ago) link
Cities in the NY/Chicago density class - SF, Philly, DC, Balto, Miami, Cleveland, Seattle, Oakland, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Rochester, and many of the cities in these cities' metro areas
Cities in the Texas density class - Phoenix, Denver, Atlanta, Kansas City, New Orleans, Indianapolis, Charlotte, Vegas, Nashville, Memphis, Albuquerque, OKC, Richmond, Tulsa, Omaha, Wichita, Tampa, Birmingham, Baton Rouge, etc.
There seems to be a clear political difference here.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:55 (nineteen years ago) link
conglomerate
intransitive senses : to gather into a mass or coherent wholetransitive senses : ACCUMULATE
annex
1 : to attach as a quality, consequence, or condition2 archaic : to join together materially : UNITE3 : to add to something earlier, larger, or more important4 : to incorporate (a country or other territory) within the domain of a state5 : to obtain or take for oneself
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:08 (nineteen years ago) link
New York is almost twice as dense as Chicago
New York is almost 5X as dense as Chicago!
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― suzy (suzy), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:32 (nineteen years ago) link
Yup, we swayed 'the moneyed and the immigrants' and made the poor little PQ loose.
― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania (briania), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link
of course i did this the hard way - the density rankings make it plainer
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:10 (nineteen years ago) link
(xpost)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link
So the choice to accept greater risk along with the reward of not uprooting your life to live outside a big city = not giving a shit?
If you're a commercial air traveler do you not give a shit?
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 00:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link
Am I stereotyping 'flyover states' by pointing to their consistent votes for the party that purports to favor limited government in the face of a party that purportedly would balloon it?
Do I have to be stereotyping the South somehow when I know that 1/3 of American Jews live in the NY metro area (also home to more Jews than the three largest cities in Israel combined)? Given that statistic, is there any way that a single small city could compare?
But if I need to refer to evidence, fine - this link suggests that there are at least about 120 Jews in Dothan, population more than 57,000. That's two-tenths of a percent. Now, let's look at New York. The Jewish population of the city is about 970,000, which is about 12%, or 60 times the per capita population of Dothan. The Manhattan population is about 245,000, which is about 16%, or 80 times the per capita population of Dothan.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link
Without judging the content of this I must say it's a delicious bit of visciousness. Equating Brooks and Momus is particularly awesome and referring to ignorance as gleeful, like a conspicuously cheery volunteer for a suicide mission is grebt.
― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link
i hope i'm clear that i'm here to have a better understanding of things and would like to be corrected if the understanding I lay out is wrong. but insults and dismissals are not corrections.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― aimurchie, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 01:34 (nineteen years ago) link
also the notion that any of these states - CaliforniaIllinoisWashington DCMarylandMassachusettsNew York - being kerry states is based on their failure to be persuaded of "Bush's commitment to protect the American people from terrorism" is absurd; these are bedrock democratic states ("blue states": brooks, < insert whatever halfbaked "clever" halfborrowed term here > : momus). also: if maryland's in here, where's virginia? and atlanta's got more mention al qaeda traffic than boston by a mile so where's a georgia? (also the notion of atlanta being a republican city will be laughable to anyone remotely familiar with it)(a group which doesn't include to be sure brooks, momus, or, apparently, proudly, gabbneb). more to the point: where's nevada? las vegas has received more repeated mentions/threats than any american city besides nyc, dc, and maybe san fran and bush barely won it in 2000 so if gabbneb's theory hold ANY weight and likelihood of being the target of an al qaeda attack (as opposed to terrorist attack)(cuz historically, outside of al qaeda attacks, red states have stood a far greater likelihood of suffering a terrorist attack than blue states) shouldn't kerry have a solid lead in nevada? his theory might - might - rank as a halfway worth thinking about if he didn't use states that would be solidly in kerry's column regardless of terrorism or bush's ability or perceived ability to defend against it. a rightwing spin on it would be that states that are more likely to be attacked would be more likely to fear and hence flee terrorism's challenge and therefore would obviously support kerry, the candidate of surrender. a rightwinger could even bring red staters disproportionately comprising the military into it by saying that red staters, not debilitated by fear of attack, are afforded the turpitude to stand up to terrorists and risk their lives (unneccesarily - since they have no reason to fear losing their own lives in a terrorist attack)(i can't spell unneccessarily) and therefore would obviously support bush, the candidate who wants to fight terrorists. for the cherry on the sundae this rightwing columnist could even top it off by stating that red staters, since their the ones who fight in wars, would naturally support the candidate who supports the troops and obviously that's not going to be the guy who was going to vote for the $87 billion before he voted against, etc. etc, insert anecdote about a diner in oklahoma in here somewhere. all of these arguments are bullshit.
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:30 (nineteen years ago) link
please read my comments on this thread more carefully Blount - I said the exact opposite
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:47 (nineteen years ago) link
LA and Miami more than San Fran, I thought. Vegas, Arlington and Alexandria did go for Gore in 2000, though I dunno why we're using pre-9/11 votes to measure concern about terrorism.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:57 (nineteen years ago) link
The fact that i read the entire thing and thought about it means I get to talk about Momus.
― aimurchie, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:58 (nineteen years ago) link
That's what i need to know about Chicago, too! I mean, where the fuck are *those* parties? Maps would be appreciated.
― Lifted, or, the story is 'neath my ass (kenan), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:58 (nineteen years ago) link
Also, a point that I didn't get to make earlier (I had some errands to run): Timothy McVeigh was a Gulf War I vet.
Also, another point: the most significant acts of domestic terrorism I can think of other than Oklahoma City: D.C. Sniper and anthrax attacks. Both of which took place in urban and suburban settings. I guess you could throw in the Ohio sniper too, but then we'd have to really talk about suburban and rural areas and not just pay some sort of Brooksian lip-service to them.
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:31 (nineteen years ago) link
For one thing, I imagine that there are a lot more New Yorkers in Maine (where many in the Boston-to-DC-metroplex retire or reside for part of the year) than there are in Alabama. places where Jews are found in fewer numbers aren't necessarily inhospitable to them, of course (and i wasn't saying any such thing, if that wasn't clear). but minority status and the desire for/requirement of a community for religious observance are going to discourage Jews from moving to places where there aren't many Jews.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― aimurchie, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Lifted, or, the story is 'neath my ass (kenan), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:58 (nineteen years ago) link
Is that a place now? What rights do they give its citizens? I may want to move there.
― Lifted, or, the story is 'neath my ass (kenan), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 04:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― Lifted, or, the story is 'neath my ass (kenan), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 04:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 04:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Friday, 22 October 2004 01:52 (nineteen years ago) link