ILX BOOKS OF THE 00s: THE RESULTS! (or: Ismael compiles his reading list, 2010-2019)

you know they were talking about michael not sarah right

Yeah, Darragh's talking about Michael Palin. I doubt Sarah's the reflective journal-keeping type, but if they exist they *must* one day be releasedomeIm anticipating some ungodly cross between William Steig, Mein Kapmf and William Burroughs.

"...released. I'm..." I don't have tourette's.

goddammit. i was thinking diaries was going rogue.

IIRC Palin's diaries weren't nominated, shame as they would have crept in near the bottom of my ballot.

I've never heard of Wells Tower but I will definitely have to check that book out. The description of that story sounds kind of like "Culloden."

Great thread so far, Ismael, thank you for doing this!

Very confused for a second about Wells Tower. I remember reading that short story in Anchor's New American Short Stories Anthology back in 2004 and liking it a lot. Didn't realize he was just now releasing his first book. I'm guessing I should pick it up based on the Viking story and this one from the New Yorker a few years ago.

The Sinai Diving Guide

Here are some snaps from the book which I scanned this afternoon.

THis first one is a 3D atlas of the Blue Hole - El Bells dive I described about a week ago.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5449/snapshot20100117185650.jpg

And here are some of the pages describing the Blue Hole - El Bells dive. There is a smaller version of the 3D atlas dive plan, a photo of a diver in the Blue Hole, and a photo of the crack in the reef (top right) which allows entry into EL BElls and the long narrow descent to 32 metres to the start of the coral wall drift dive.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/2725/snapshot20100117191002.jpg

Here are some pages describing the "Canyon" dive in Dahab as well. There is a mini 3D atlas of the dive, photos, a map and descriptions.

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/6217/snapshot20100117191614.jpg

Some more photos and 3D images of the "Canyon" dive:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1751/snapshot20100117192130.jpg

Liking it. I see the Blue Hole better now in the first one - it looks bloody terrifying. Wikipedia tells me there is footage around of a guy filming his own death at the bottom, which is just about the worst thing I can imagine. The name 'El Bells' is quite fitting, I've got AC/DC on my internal jukebox now. I like the little camels up in the hills too.

I'm just relieved the book exists to be honest - I was starting to get worried that we'd been hoodwinked into lionising the book equivalent of Keyser Söze.

80. Black Swan Green - David Mitchell (2006)
(31 points, two votes)

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5049/blackswangreen.jpg

Parenthetic Hound (woofwoofwoof):
The best of the generation's Britishes

He got some stick (again, from Private Eye, I think) for the relentless product name-dropping, and it is very noticable (someone with a better memory for pop trivia could probably place the year exactly but I'm stuck on 'early-80s').
It's probably set in 1982 (Mitchell was born in 1969, so 13 in 1982).I loved the book. And I think I am not in the target demographic as a Dutch girl born in 1979...
― Ionica (Ionica), Friday, June 30, 2006 12:54 PM (3 years ago)

after a fairly weak start i thought "Black Swan Green" was superb. it really takes off after the Frobisher section and Jason, who i thought was weak and frustrating, suddenly started to interest me. the last 20 pages or so were incredibly moving. in fact i'm welling up just thinking about them now (no joke). there's a beautiful moment when jason meets the man at the "house in the woods" at the end *SLIGHT SPOILER* and jason says he thought the house was miles from anywhere and the man replies that the wood is "no more than the size of three or four football pitches, it's hardly sherwood forest." it's an amazing moment because it's so familiar yet so unexpected; a small moment that subtly changes your impression of the entire book.
i can't believe this book hasn't been marketed in a major way to teenagers. if i was a parent or teacher i would be urging kids to read it.
― jed_ (jed), Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:43 PM (3 years ago)

Wat is je favoriete Mitchell? Heb hier nog een ongelezen Cloud Atlas liggen.
Dat is mijn favoriet! Het eerste hoofdstuk is een beetje doorbijten, maar daarna wordt het geweldig. Past hij nog in je tas? Black Swan Green vond ik ook heel goed, maar dat is een heel ander soort boek. Een beetje "The straight story" van Mitchell.
― Ionica (Ionica), Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:51 AM (3 years ago)

It's not actually scary at all if you follow the dive plan on the first scanned photo. It would be a different story though if you entered the Blue Hole through the tunnel at 60 metres. That tunnel is not indicated in the first scanned photo as it's too deep and is off the map. However, it appears in the smaller 3D dive map on the second photo, right at the bottom in the middle of the dive plan. That is where most of the Russians die. Get nitrogen narcosis, laugh like crazy and throw away their BCD (buoyancy control device) and air tanks as the nitrogen narcosis makes them feel overconfident and ecstatic, but affects their judgment for the worse. I don't think I'll ever have enough qualifications or experience to do that part of the dive. Funny, when I turned up I initially thought I'd be able to do it!!!

I must have read 'Everything Ravaged, Everything Burned' in that Anchor collection at some point. Should look it up again and maybe get the Wells Tower book, as the descriptions so far have been rather compelling.

That's the first of a seven-way-tie, incidentally - some totals must be easier to land on than others.

You should have gone for it anyway, Red

79. Rabbit Remembered
(31 points, two votes)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/John-updike-candid.jpg/220px-thumb.jpg

Red Raymaker:
I have to confess that I would have been tempted to include this novella on my voting list even if it had not been top notch, simply because Updike's four principal "Rabbit" books are my favourite books of any decade and I would have been tempted to recognise his achievements in this poll too.  However, I feel in all good consciousness, able to vote for his novella on its merits.  I think it is top notch again, but not quite as excellent as his principal works.  Given that, and the fact it is a novella, and the fact that the protagonist does not really feature in the novella, I did not think it merited finishing any higher than fourth, but I think that is already a terrific achievement.  The three books which I have voted for ahead of the novella are, I think, better.  In this novella Updike does what he always does when writing creatively - he sets himself apart from his peers by his ability to provide sharper and more profound insights into the world, consciousness and the human conditions than any of his peers.  The characters he creates feel completely and convincingly real to me.  I find it very difficult to think that there might not be a Janice Angstrom commuting between Brewer and Florida this winter.

79. Rabbit Remembered - John Updike (2001)
(31 points, two votes)

Loved this one, but I got my heading wrong - time to call it a night I think.

Updike is simply the most fantastic writer and the character of Harry Angstrom (Rabbit) is the quintessential everyman. It is wonderful to follow the growth of the character of Janice, his wife, from a young expectant mother suffering from a lack of self-confidence to the middle aged go getting owner of Springer Motors and property realtor. And to follow the resentments and inadequacies of Nelson their son throughout the four principal books and this novella. Then there are unforgettable characters like Skeeter who enter Harry's life and change it irrevocably. Updike writes so convincingly about some of the little things that make us human - the additction to the feeling of sweet and also salty snacks dissolving in our mouths to the profound everyday irritation which loved ones can cause us to the love and loyalty of family despite their shortcomings.

I'm not too surprised the novella didn't score so highly because it is just that, a novella, and not one of the principal four Rabbit books. However, I'm surprised that it didn't attract one or two further votes. Of those who have read this novella and didn't vote for it, why did it fall short for you? Because it was a novella and didn't feel substantial enough to qualify, or because you didn't think it was up to scratch?

Incidentally, I don't think I would have enjoyed the novella so much as a standalone read. It only really worked on the back of the four principal works which preceded it.

I'm just about to start a new book. I was thinking of either Bellow's "The Adventures of Augie March" or De Lillo's "Underworld". Which one should I go for?

I forgot about David Mitchell, was Cloud Atlas nominated?

Black Swan Green is in some ways my favourite David Mitchell but I very much hope Cloud Atlas places higher.

I was pretty exhausted last night and missed that Rabbit Remembered actually did pick up three votes, not two - meaning that it's been unfairly bumped down a handful of places. However, there's no room for third umpires in this poll, so Updike will just have to make do with universal acclaim instead.

78. Engleby - Sebastian Faulks (2007)
(31 points, two votes)

http://www.paramuspost.com/mediagallery/mediaobjects/tn/d/d_engleby2.jpg

Red Raymaker:
Beautifully written and fascinating to gain an insight into the mind of a dangerous loner.  Thought it was a much more successful attempt at examining the dark recesses of the human mind than his "Human Traces"

and

I'm probably being too scathing about Faulks, a writer I've read with some pleasure in the past. I didn't on the whole like "Birdsong", presumably still his most highly rated, although there were certainly good things in it. I've also read Engleby, Charlotte Grey, On Green Dolphin Street, The Girl at the Lion D'Or and The Fatal Englishman (this last non-fiction). Engleby and and OGDS in particular were enjoyable reads, although I'd be reluctant to make any claims for them beyond that.
Faulks has nothing to be ashamed of but if you compare A Week in December with, say, Hollinghurt's The Line of Beauty (there are some similarities, like a set piece dinner parties held by Tory MPs) there's a substantial gulf in class. I get the impression Faulks is bitter because he's not taken as seriously as the likes of Hollinghurst, Zadie Smith and Ian McEwan but the truth is he's just not as good as they are.
― frankiemachine, Monday, October 26, 2009 2:32 PM (2 months ago)

That quote was part of a discussion where I was lamenting Faulks' buffoonery in a recent interview. It was singularly depressing because I'd been so impressed by On Green Dolphin Street, forming a view of him as a man happy to be superb at his craft without the need to pontificate on things he knows nothing about. It's true that he can't match up to The Line of Beauty, though to be fair very few books can. But (from what I've read) as a storyteller he's far above most of McEwan's work, which is after all his job, even if McEwan does a better job of looking clever.

The tragedy is that I suspect Faulks' greatest ambition really is to be taken as seriously as Martin Amis.

77. An Episode In The Life Of A Landscape Painter - Cesar Aira (2006)
(31 points, three votes)

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:sNBvRcNdFw0KxM:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_66iHOBlQisQ/RY9AWeJWbZI/AAAAAAAAABI/d_qDDWl417A/s200/Landscape.jpg

wmlynch:
Aira's writing can often feel tossed-off and unserious, but at his core he is a master at storytelling. I found the opening to this (very) short book off-putting and somewhat boring, but when lightning strikes (literally) the book becomes impossible to close.

Hm, that's maybe a bit too small. Here's Mr Aira looking quite pleased about whatever it is he's holding, possibly surrounded by books on landscape painting:

http://flip2007.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/cesar_aira.jpg

76. Memories of Ice - Steven Erikson (2005)
(31 points, two votes)

http://i46.tinypic.com/vdlv2q.jpg

Lamp:
this book is why the word "epic" became a thing

Every successful fantasy writer needs a better editor, which I think is the great distinction between Memories Of Ice and Toll The Hounds. I think the latter's writing and story may be just as good - if not better - than the former's, but Memories is a lean machine and Toll is plumper than Kruppe.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, December 25, 2009 12:24 AM (3 weeks ago)

We used to stop off at Ashburton during long car trips, I have fond memories of ice cream.
― Livvie (Livvie), Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:53 AM (5 years ago)

still struggling through book 2 of these. only ilx recommendations keeping me at it.

My first reaction to that was o_0 but I guess I'm totally not a fantasy person - do you guys who are into it actually think these books are up there with the best literature, or is it more a case of giving props to your own corner of the book world? This is meant to be an honest question, not a leading or snidey one, by the way. Although I do realise we may end up in a book version of popism vs rockism...

could ask the same question about a lot of the picks so far- lots of books by hip earnest young authors of the moment here that i couldn't see myself ever having any interest in.

or, alternatively, there are other things to look for than 'literature' when picking up a book, i suppose?

as is apparent by the shockingly constructed sentence above sorry for rural irish

^ bizarre coupling of cultural cringe with aggressive defence of fantasy lit

oh, sorry if that came across as aggressive, wasn't meant to be! i thought emily phrased the question as nicely as she could.

there are other things to look for than 'literature' when picking up a book, i suppose?

Yeah, I think it's this that made me think of the rockist argument... but then, I'm not sure what there could be that I wouldn't think was an aspect of 'great literature' that would make me pick up a book... Surely plot would come under that, even if it is not the same as deft word construction (the latter of which I appear to be seriously lacking this afternoon). So if it is great plotting that makes fantasy appealing, then is the answer 'yeah! of course it's as good as Updike/Faulks/etc'?

though i take your point that great 'writing' without a story is probably a lot better than a great story told by a terrible writer- if that's your point!

but to answer your actual question the fantasy books so far are mainly in it for the story/plotting, while being a lot better than the vast majority of the genre in terms of the writing quality to get you through those plots.

While inquiring minds are inquiring then, does the best new Fantasy stuff tend to be have more depth or nuance in the kinds of worlds it takes place in than ye olde sub-Tolkein guys? I mean is it goodies yay vs baddies boo or is there the kind of moral ambiguity going on that you'd expect to find in good espionage or detective fiction?

It's true that he can't match up to The Line of Beauty, though to be fair very few books can.

on the basis of this line I have made my first purchase based on this thread, as I had seen The Line of Beauty (hardcover) hanging around in Poundland for months and continually forgot to find out anything about it, but that there is quite enough to sell me. Maybe not the greatest leap into the beyond at £1, but heyyy it's something.

Even in my geeky teens I had no taste for fantasy (despite the SHROVES of awful sci-fi I read), so I'm guessing by this point I'm destined to never be a fan.

huh I had no idea it won the Booker Prize. I truly don't know shit about shit.

xp is there the kind of moral ambiguity going on that you'd expect to find in good espionage or detective fiction?

certainly, it's there if you want it. but there's another thread that lists the best out there for this kind of thing, "fantasy is my favourite genre why is it so bad and hated" or something like.

heh i've dallied with reading other genres but tbh since i was 8 i read hardly anything but fantasy.

I had never heard of this writer. A glance at Amazon turns up this review. It made me laugh.

(worth noting that i don't actually rep that hard for erikson as i'm only halfway through bk 2 of 35 atm)

but (again) the prince of nothing series by r scott bakker (if the name doesn't put you off) is something i've been trying to get people to read.

I'm not sure what there could be that I wouldn't think was an aspect of 'great literature' that would make me pick up a book

Dunno, I think 'literary' & 'great literature' are tangled, but tend to be used more narrowly than this implies - in the modern novel, a few of the following tend to be there: psychological sophistication, irony, moral ambiguity, individual connected to large-scale historical events/zeitgeist, self-conscious style. That kind of thing.

Pedal-to-metal can't-put-it-down narrative & narrative immersion aren't really on that list; a writer who specialises in that usually takes years/decades to be accepted as actually ok, and even then there's a bit of sniffiness (thinking of Stephen King). Fantasy's also disadvantaged because pure invention isn't admired; the 'literary' tends to adhere a bit more closely to this world.

The 'literary' category is maybe shifting a bit, so SF has an easier time slipping through than it did 20 years ago; but I think bookshops, newspapers, publishers are all quite tied to it.

Just trying to describe this by the way, rather than judge; literary realism bores me rigid, & I tend to like fiction that pumps up style or invention or formal fun or ideas or whatever (so I fell for Black Swan Green partly because it was playing strange Romantic tricks - gypsies, doubles, poets - beneath the surface of conventional psychologically rounded realism).

Fantasy's also disadvantaged because pure invention isn't admired; the 'literary' tends to adhere a bit more closely to this world

conversely, gimmickery or characters acting unrealistically bothers me much more in a supposed 'real world' setting where i'm trying to imagine it as something that could happen- in fantasy, i don't mind dudes wrestling dragons because the whole world is a suspension of disbelief, so i can't be jarred out of it by false notes.

I'm on the popist* side, as you may have picked up from my unsuccessful attempts to get The Kite Runner and Angels and Demons nominated. Plot, with character, is definitely the most important part of any book. Of course it's nice if all the other stuff you mention is there too - but if it's not then I'm not going to lionise McEwan, say, for his themes or style if the stories are rubbish. Give me Faulks or whoever any day**

The basic problem which I have with SciFi/fantasy is that, cut loose from the real world, it's easy to let the characters drift away from being real people with real (by which I mean my) concerns. Which then in turn stops the plots making sense to me. That's why it's interesting to me to hear the comments above on Banks or Towers (that viking story is fantasy, right?) - it makes it sound like they have made the much greater effort to create a reality to ground their stories in.

*at least I think I am, but often I think I've misunderstood this debate entirely
** I say that, but I suspect my real reading list is probably pretty pseudish

tell you what though, i've changed my mind and decided my vote would have been for the fantastic "Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell" which is an amazing mix austen, historical fiction, fantasy and fairytale, told brilliantly. note perfect.