Spike Lee: Dud or DUD?!?

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it's been way too long (like five years or more) since i saw the film to respond adequately to sterling's post, though i wish i could. i do remember the relative (to reality) emptiness of the brooklyn streets even when i was 12-13 and saw it for the first time.... even then it registered not as a lapse but as a kind of stylization. along with the bright primary colors of the homes. the film does register as a kind of musical at many moments, so the "west side story" quality of the set decoration is not completely out of place.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 23 October 2003 18:51 (twenty years ago) link

i liked the dad's solilioquoy in that dumb "punch me in the head, i'm going to jail" movie with ed norton

the girlfriend was also hot

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 23 October 2003 18:56 (twenty years ago) link

i want that to be fritz's contribution to the faber & faber "spike lee reader."

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 23 October 2003 18:59 (twenty years ago) link

I don't have much else to add.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 23 October 2003 19:00 (twenty years ago) link

what was that movie called again anyway? "24 HOURS" or something? I still don't understand why being beaten up will keep him from getting raped in jail.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 23 October 2003 19:02 (twenty years ago) link

I generally like what I've seen quite a bit but I haven't seen nearly all of them.

Ditto. Been years since I've seen DTRT, Crooklyn or Jungle Fever. The words "awesome" and "intense" immediately come to mind. It's sure that Spike's movies will end up in an international movie space capsule to show the future that we DID have passionate filmmakers now and then.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 23 October 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

amateurist otm re: stylization & west side story (see also 8 mile)

but sterling, what do you mean by "is it TRUE"? "is it an accurate (visual & otherwise) portrayal of life in bed-stuy in 89?" or something else?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 23 October 2003 19:11 (twenty years ago) link

jazz isn't old. it's way hipper than a traditional orchestral score anyway.

besides, spike has always been about juxtaposing different aspects of black culture, the youth/populist culture versus the history/art aspect (i.e. Get on the Bus, all the discussions in Mo' Better Blues, etc.).

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 23 October 2003 20:06 (twenty years ago) link

il juxtapose trop.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 23 October 2003 20:14 (twenty years ago) link

Since I have hardly seen any movies for a long time, I can't comment on most of his films. I thought "She's Gotta Have It" and "Do the Right Thing" were good (even if some parts of the latter were a little heavy-handed, to use that phrase again). I think Spike Lee has a more distinctive style than most commercial film producers (or the ones I was aware of when I saw films a little more often). I remember comparing him to Woody Allen, myself, but in regard to his style being recognizable. It's a little hard for me to separate "Do the Right Thing" from being a young graduate student (just library science--bleah), and seeing it in a theater at around 19th & Chestnut Street*, and being really into Public Enemy at the time.

*This is for Mohammed Abba.

― Al Andalous, Friday, 24 October 2003 01:32 (twenty years ago) link

Reading Sterling's comments makes me realize how little I actually remember of "Do the Right Thing." I saw it when it came out and haven't see it since.

― Al Andalous, Friday, 24 October 2003 01:43 (twenty years ago) link

i was saddened to see that theater closed the last time i was in town.

i watched do the right thing about six months ago because nancy had never seen it and i must say it holds up remarkably better than i expected it to from the last time i saw it as a freshman film student.

― mohammed abba (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 October 2003 01:53 (twenty years ago) link

q: did the l.a. riots seal spike's career?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 24 October 2003 03:32 (twenty years ago) link

He is like woody allen. A clever and idosyncratic figure who makes yearly spins on the same film. Not that that was an insult.
-- anthony (anthonyeasto...), August 18th, 2001.

Wow. Too right.

― Skottie, Friday, 24 October 2003 13:28 (twenty years ago) link

three months pass...

I just watched 25th Hour again - if not for the draggy club scene, how close to perfect would this have been?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 22 February 2004 10:51 (twenty years ago) link

I think the club scene is good. I love that film. I didn't expect Spike Lee to make anything so good ever again.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:41 (twenty years ago) link

i agree with milo, i think the club scene could've been great but was wasted.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:42 (twenty years ago) link

The club scene either needed to be longer/more of a focus, or cut back more. (It felt that way in the novel, too). It felt too much like "oh god, we need the exposition, but we're not really going anywhere with this."

The bathroom monologue was even more powerful this time, but the last five-ten minutes wasn't. It was still great, and I was about to cry - but it didn't match the awe I felt the first time I saw it.

(25th Hour really made me wish I could move to NYC again. And a Cool Hand Luke poster.)

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 23 February 2004 04:51 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...

Da Mayor - Zeus
Mother Sister - Hera
Mookie - Hermes
Jade - Athena
Buggin Out - Ares
Radio Raheem - Apollo
Sal - Hephaestus? or Odysseus?
Vito - Perseus?
Pino - Telemachus?
Mister Senor Love Daddy - Dionysus
Tina - nymph (her son is Pan)
ML, Coconut Sid and Sweet Dick Willie - chorus (though ML might be Poseidon and the others don't know it)
Smiley - Echo
Ahmad - Prometheus
Cee - Epimethus
Punchy - Narcissus
Ella - Pandora

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:51 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...

Dom Passantino, talk to me about Do the Right Thing.

― jaymc (jaymc), Saturday, 6 August 2005 23:14 (eighteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...

for the record, i love spike. and like others have said, kinda, even when he's bad he's infinitely interesting. (that would be the woody parallel i guess) but bamboozled really did have me bamboozled. it's so poorly made/shot/written/acted EXCEPT for the actual minstrel show itself, that it actually made me feel like the whole movie was an EXCUSE to film the minstrel show part. and THAT made me wish that he had made some sort of historical set piece about minstrelsy and imagine how awesome it would have been. the most effective moment emotionally for me was simply the long look at what ebay sellers like to call "black americana" eg: dolls, advertisements, etc. and even that stuff (hugely popular collectables big with wealthy black collectors) would have made an extremely interesting documentary of some sort. so i saw the potential for interesting subjects to be pursued, but unfortunately they were tied to such a dog of a movie. like woody, i guess i just wonder what is going through his head sometimes.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 21 July 2006 02:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I liked Summer of Sam better than any other S. Lee except Do the Right Thing. Jungle Fever's pretty good, too.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 21 July 2006 03:21 (seventeen years ago) link

lol i was totally able to predict the opinions of several people before reading the thread.
"fantastic powerful beautiful near- perfect director"
er, he is a director, i'll give you that

― timmy tannin (pompous), Friday, 21 July 2006 03:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Scott OTM. I wrote as much a few years ago in a review, such ingloriously ,ugly, meaty, lively material with no connective tissue; the (literal)minstrel scenes are such an island it does end up feeling like a indulgence, and then a cop-out, and the attempts to contemporize or reconcile the blackface stuff with the rest of the bullshit going on were bound to fail. It's not even heavy-handed, it's just...overactive and distracted and frustrating and boring and bad mostly. otm about the sambo stuff thrown at the screen too, I'm almost glad he didn't sink his teeth into that, certainly deserves far more consideration than he was capable of giving it at the time. I can't help but love Spike just for trying stuff like this is the thing, dude is classic obv. Summer of Sam is real good xpost

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 21 July 2006 03:45 (seventeen years ago) link

summer of sam, 25th hour, clockers, do the right thing, jungle fever, & 4 little girls are all great. i remember liking bits of he got game, too, but i don't remember enough to say i liked it overall.

― gear (gear), Friday, 21 July 2006 03:49 (seventeen years ago) link

hah, that's exactly my list. though i like crooklyn enuff, too.

― Damn, Atreyu! (x Jeremy), Friday, 21 July 2006 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link

i love Crooklyn

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 21 July 2006 04:09 (seventeen years ago) link

the movie i wish i could have seen: paul mooney (such a powerful presence on screen) as burt williams, legendary minstrel/vaudville/etc entertainer. that would have been epic and worth all the tea in china.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 21 July 2006 04:11 (seventeen years ago) link

mira sorvino was a movie star once, right?

― kingfish cyclopean ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 21 July 2006 04:20 (seventeen years ago) link

crooklyn vs. everybody hates chris ...

― Damn, Atreyu! (x Jeremy), Friday, 21 July 2006 04:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I hated He Got Game. But I'm glad so many other people liked 25th Hour. I remember it getting really bad reviews, but I totally loved it.

the most effective moment emotionally for me was simply the long look at what ebay sellers like to call "black americana" eg: dolls, advertisements, etc. and even that stuff (hugely popular collectables big with wealthy black collectors) would have made an extremely interesting documentary of some sort

some of that stuff made it into that Confederate States of America movie, and was pretty much the only good part of it. Lee had some kind of production role in C.S.A., and I assume he had some hand in including the real history of "black Americana" in the mockumentary. He should totally make an actual documentary about it.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 21 July 2006 04:29 (seventeen years ago) link

You didn't like CSA at all? I thought it was stretched way too thin(eventually the fantasy scenario outpaced the actual satire) but I remember some of the 'commercials' being sort of funny.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 21 July 2006 04:42 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah, the commercials were great, and then at the end it was revealed that they were real, at which point I decided, based on Bamboozled, that Lee was responsible for them being in the movie.

I don't know, CSA's satire was kind of inconsistent--like it wouldn't put its money where its mouth was in terms of racial ideology.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 21 July 2006 04:47 (seventeen years ago) link

i now think school daze was def. his best. it has just enuf silliness and generosity to overpower the still-present grouchy preacher spike.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 21 July 2006 06:23 (seventeen years ago) link

I was heartened when The Inside Man turned out to be such a fantastic piece of m mainstream filmmaking – and a hit!

Duds: Mo' Better Blues, Bamboozled

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 21 July 2006 11:59 (seventeen years ago) link

I'VE GOT JUNGLE FEVER
SHE'S GOT JUNGE FEVER
WE'VE GOT JUNGLE FEVER
WE'RE IN LOVE

― fongoloid sangfroid (sanskrit), Friday, 21 July 2006 12:05 (seventeen years ago) link

i fucking loved jungle fever when i first saw it. havent seen it in years. how is it?

― pisces (piscesx), Friday, 21 July 2006 12:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Paul Mooney's standup is maybe the best stand-up I've ever seen.

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 21 July 2006 12:23 (seventeen years ago) link

I love Mo' Better Blues. :(

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 21 July 2006 12:35 (seventeen years ago) link

it has a fair amount of flaws, but me too

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 21 July 2006 12:36 (seventeen years ago) link

yes, the turturro bros were "problematic" in that movie, to say the least.

― timmy tannin (pompous), Friday, 21 July 2006 12:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't get people hating "Bamboozled" (although to be fair this is mostly because I knew people from undergrad almost exactly like Damon Wayans' character so it didn't seem overacted to me).

― Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Stevie's Jungle Fever soundtrack was at the time his best album in 10 years, so Spike deserves some credit.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I was about the post the exact same thing as Dan!

― Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Does anyone else remember Mos Def being simultaneously hilarious and depressing and incredibly menacing in Bamboozled? After having seen it twice now, I realize that he is probably the only thing that ever really GETS me in that movie.

― the doaple gonger (nickalicious), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought Mos Def was OUTSTANDING in "Bamboozled".

Really the only thing that let that movie down for me was the ending, which kind of went too far for me; everything else was great.

― Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:25 (seventeen years ago) link

My disappointment with Bamboozled has to do way more with the misguided and failed metaphor that the premise is built around. Mos Def and Damon Wayans were great, but Spike Lee seems to think that really slow, unfunny skits about chicken stealing would do really well with white people at the dawn of the 21st century (I don't recall Homeboys In Outer Space being a smash). If you watch actual films of popular minstresly you realize how unnecessary the blackface was, that the jokes are still used today, just without the racist signifiers - which is what makes their presence so horrifying and offensive. The fake TV ads were dead on and hilarious, but the basic premise was a total flop and by the end we had our standard interminable Spike Lee hysterics.

Back in 2003 I said it was his worst movie, but he's made like 9 I haven't seen since or something. And I never saw all of Girl 6.

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Spike Lee seems to think that really slow, unfunny skits about chicken stealing would do really well with white people at the dawn of the 21st century

So, I guess a fast one like the one that was about minstrelry on Chapelle last night is ok though? It's the slow ones that ppl are not responding to?

― Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Who said it was OK? I'm just saying that the racism has to be incorporated into other aspects of entertainment, and the material shown in Bamboozled was painfully unentertaining. If he had thrown blackface on top of good slapstick (the Bugs Bunny vs. dumb black farmer cartoon was turned into an Elmer Fudd one and was still plenty popular), then you'd actually have something that could actually be popular, and show the insidious nature of it. But what he did was way more "you people are idiots" rather than "this is how people are made to accept racism as mere entertainment."

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm just saying that the racism has to be incorporated into other aspects of entertainment, and the material shown in Bamboozled was painfully unentertaining.

So I guess you've not watched Mind of Mencia, either.

― Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:38 (seventeen years ago) link

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