Doctor Who 2008: Sontarans cometh, RTD Ood 'ave 'im etc.

So, like Daleks, Cybermen and Time Lords are never EVER coming back, because Rusty says so? I find it easier to imagine these entities stuck in interminable checkmated confilct . .

They left the Master thing open ever since the picking up of the ring, but it was done in such a cack-handed way. No surprise though. Based on that clip, I like where this Time Lord thing is going. Master's bizarre plot (Aphex Twin OTM) was just sooooo damn goofy from a basic visual sense that I can't figure out why RTD didn't come up with something better. Also, that cafe scene was pretty great. dude upthread otm re: that.

Whoever said the first twenty minutes were horrible OTM as well. And RTD didn't bother to flesh out the billionaire and his daughter in the slightest. Still had fun though, especially watching with my teenage cousins (just me and them while the grown-ups talked downstairs, ha).

Just watched it, Aphex Twin referenced in our house as well. Whole bunch of meh really, but looks like it's building to something decent. Everyone OTM re cafe scene.

Aphex Twin *and* Being John Malkovich, I should say. How the holy fuck was The Master still imprinted on Lucy Saxon's lipstick after a year of her being in prison?

Don't try and make sense of anything in this episode.

ffs everyone, i was really excited by the end. maybe just the references to gallifrey and the return of the timelords and the end of time and john simm being as good as the master as tennant is as the doctor and bernard cribbins as an old man helping you see the dr on a humanistic level and the mortality thing again. i loved it so far.

rubbish

Cribbins and Tennant in the caff staring down the double barrels of mortality was one of the best things in the show for ages tho.

It's scenes like this that redeem the bits I actually laughed out loud at for being stupid, like the Master's wife whipping out a potion she JUST SO HAPPENS to have spent YEARS ... stuff like this has been part of Who parodies for as long as there have been Who parodies.

This was a very familiar RTD blend of fantastic emotional scenes along with reveals which really aren't reveals or actually interesting ... I mean, really it felt like they were fixated on having a scene in which Obama gets possessed by the Master, and have a worldwide Master remake of Come to Daddy. The latter part is indeed incredibly cool, but there were some seriously weak contortions to get there.

Ok, the four-knock thing is a two-hearted heartbeat, that's a really clever idea. But which no Timelord would regard as being alien to them. If i tap out da-dum, da-dum to you, you're going to say 'ah right, sounds like a heartbeat then'.

I realised that the four knocks was a double heartbeat the first time the Master mentioned it, in the original Saxon story.

Moffatt can start the new series from year zero afaic but John Simm is the one element that needs to be kept hold of.

I didn't like that caff scene one bit. A third of the way in and the Dr and Bernard bleedin Cribbins start blubbing. Enough OTT emo-Doctor already. It's Christmas, give us a break.

The episode came good in the end though, like this was all just a big run, a big teaser for the final final final finale ever. Tim Dalton looks ace.

a big run up

The reason it wasn't lol emo-Doctor, even tho the emo bits have for the most part been the bits I've enjoyed during the RTD era, was that you had two really great actors playing off each other and what could've been another heavy-handed BYE ROSE HI ROSE BYE ROSE set piece was just a restrained, barely happening moment in the space before it went back into SUPER-MASTER and lol WE ARE EVIL TIME LORDS

And I know the Time Lords have always been these morally ambiguous careless Gnostic bad demiurge kinda figures but if Rusty is leading up to "you was right to blow them all up Christopher Ecclestone, those guys are asses" daddy-issues hilarity then, well, jaysus. Plus everybody who likes how this is going should never under-estimate RTD's ability to ruin a story with an unbelievably shitty deus ex machina conclusion.

I actually saw this against my will and for all that it was profoundly retarded it was also grew weirdly compelling after a first 20 minutes that is rightfully denounced here and which exceeded my every expectation of direness

Aphex Twin and BJM obviously referenced here too, and as profoundly silly family entertainment goes not the worst thing I've seen (that would be Robin Hood), but oh god that Tate woman is still on telly and I haven't actually taken anything from it

oh and all that hunger/laughing shit was ridic

I'm hoping against hope that the Moffat/Smith era will do away with the Doctor's bottom lip going whenever he's in a tight corner. Looking all dewy-eyed into the middle distance is one thing, actually being on the verge of tears... enough is enough imo.
It almost - almost - makes me pine for the days when a regen would be along the lines of: the TARDIS is hit by a bit of turbulence, the Doctor falls to the floor, he rolls over and another Doctor gets up.

but if Rusty is leading up to "you was right to blow them all up Christopher Ecclestone, those guys are asses" daddy-issues hilarity then, well, jaysus.

I wouldn't watch the second half if I was you, I doubt it's going anywhere else.

Would I be crediting him with too many pop-culture references if I thought it was all a crap computer game pun? World of 'The Simms'? No?

I think you're over-thinking it. Come on, this guy wrote the "it's a... MASTER RACE" line, subtlety doesn't really enter into it.

ugh the obama bits were so annoying. was it really necessary to mention him fixing the recession THREE TIMES? and no, it's not going to get DW more viewers in America, if that was the intention.

fucking love john simm hamming it up, especially in the scenes in the secret office, where he's just sitting in the corner with a shit-eating grin.

Obama bits also weird because so far it's been fake prime ministers (Harriet Jones, Harold Saxon) and fake pres-elect that got blown up by the master last time out, so introducing a real president into already-screwed timeline (aldo to thread?) seems totally wack.

yeah it wouldn't be as bad and would've gotten the same point across if they'd just gone with an Obama-ish US president, the way the last president was clearly meant to be Dubya.

obama has a skinhead

Slightly surprising the Doctor didn't realise what was going on with that gateway slightly earlier than he did - in fact I'm not actually sure he got a hold on it (despite being told what it did)- since he encountered people being 'mended' according to an incorrect template relatively recently in that excellent one with the gas masks - a Moffat one iirc.

Apart from that entertaining enough bosh (tho embarrassing when compared to things like Blink and Midnight). Cd do with more tension, less gaudiness for me. RTD has fun, yes, and that's definitely good, but wish sometimes he stopped rushing round having fun and had a bit more tonal variety - some slowish development rather than the hasty botch of the first 20 mins, which was as embarrassingly rotten as everyone says.

That said, the idea that the Doctor was late because of his essentially frivolous nature was good (and presumably dovetailed in Children in Need, which I didn't see) and also implied he was unwilling to face his own demise.

Children in Need was basically just the post-credits sequence, the "I shagged Queen Elizabeth, got a car key for the TARDIS, wayhey!" bit plus the Ood sitting round in a circle harbinging doom for all mankind.

have watched v little of this doctor who and am sure there have been some good eps and moments and ideas in it and know the doctor who has always been campy and overacted and thin and shit-looking with crap sets and locations and props and special effects and acting and stories but always think it could actually be good - it's not like I hark back to a golden age of the doctor who because I don't like doctor who just that I like the basic ideas of doctor who - I know that it's old and gone on for ages and they have made up tons of shit to explain things and effect continuity and build some canon with different levels of accessibility and logic but it seems like such crap - I liked christopher eccleston even though most if not all of my problems with this doctor who and previous ones were the same during his go I enjoyed it compared to being totally turned off by and barely being able to stand this doctor who - it's tennant really with his melted face and wide-eyed wonky teeth gritting eyebrow arching and wiggling and accent and not even being able to run convincingly and putting on a pair of glasses now and then but jesus john sim so awful too and the thing is they probably ASK him to be awful and everyone else who is awful but wish they would just ask them to be good for a bit and maybe it could be better - will give the new doctor who a chance and maybe things will be different enough with moffat too but what are the chances - I liked paul mcgann

did rtd really write this? felt distinct lack of daleks.

There is an over=load of gurning David Tennant this Xmas, with the in-between programme bit with the reindeer and the Tardis .

This episode was too shouty, too noisy and lacking in subtlety.

Hamlet | BBC 2 | 17:05, Saturday 26 December 2009 probably the same

We watched this on iplayer yesterday and none of us were very taken w it. As per Bob 6, too much gurning/scenery-chewing, too noisy/shouty, no subtlety whatsoever. Bad, bad dialogue also. Seems to me thet there's a point during Tennant's run where the whole thing descended into self-parody, dunno when exactly. I used to enjoy most of them, now I usually find it annoying. am hoping that the new guy is going to be better/fresher.

i've been feeling self-parody fatigue from RTD over these last specials, it's like a drinking game: the Doctor expresses disdain of guns, drink! the Doctor extends bizarre mercy to clearly dangerous enemy, drink! i see from the trailer that the gun thing is going somewhere next week, which is nice because my god has that topic been hammered into the ground.

i liked the soppy conversation in the cafe, I thought having Wilf there gave it more power than your typical sad-Doctor-is-sad scene. also i still miss the days when the Doctor and Donna just sailed around, having fun and being bros, so I liked how tangibly and palpably he seemed to miss Donna in that scene -- less moony and emo, like when he missed Rose, and more "goddammit this sucks."

rtd doesn't even bother to explain shit anymore. lol we r bringing master back with magik poshuns! lol I have anti poshun! oh lol apparently it didn't work bekos here is master!

the master becoming everyone on earth was fun but I suspect that will be the only fun moment in the whole two hours.

there's a point during Tennant's run where the whole thing descended into self-parody, dunno when exactly.

Think it was in Fear Her when he picked up the Olympic torch.

Did Timothy Dalton really have to shout with spittle flying out of his mouth?
Anyway, they will have to tie up the bits with the lady that only Bernard Cribbens seems to see, and the skikey aliens. Yes, the frist 20 minutes were pretty lame, but I think Simm is doing a great job as the master, despite some occasionally clunky lines. At least the special effects for the Master are pretty cool. I'm looking forward the second part, and not really looking forward to the Moffat/big-headed Matt Smith era. His head is just too big! dude looks like a caveman with his huge cranial ridge and sunken-eyes, too.

didn't really like this because (warning some petty quibbles/questions herein):

- why can the master now fly around and shoot lightning?
- lucy saxon stuff seemed pointless other than to explain his occasionally visible skull (just a visual gimmick? meh - might've been cooler without the eyeballs tho) and 'incomplete' rebirth
- lack of decent dialogue between him and the doctor so far
- pretty lame attempts to disguise himself so people wouldn't recognise him as the disappeared saxon (spiky blonde hair and a hoody, is that it?)
- the rapidly shaking heads was another dumb gimmick and went on too long (as did the laughter at the end)
- why is the master so into meat (other than just being more insane than ever)?
- stfu about obama
- why would naysmith only want immortality for his boring daughter?
- spiky green dudes also pointless so far
- the doctor being "shot"/left for dead - wouldn't naysmith have known who he was and taken him prisoner too?

i missed this 2 heartbeats (is this the 'drums'?) = 4 "knocks" thing and thought it just referred to the master clanging the oildrum 4 times (which would've been weak)

i could've just put 'rtd' for all of that tho. but cribbins, cafe, dalton/timelords good, and tennant himself was fine.

i think we can all agree that having four not-that-special specials is a bad idea. these individual episodes really haven't been that terrible all things considered but each one was sooo heavily hyped up and of course RTD felt like he needed to included cringe-y lonely doctor angst scenes in each one because he can't seem to figure out any other way to get the audience to continue rooting for his lead character, and OTT action sequences that kind of look awesome but kind of don't make sense either that it all feels like one big pile of meh.

ok the last one wasn't that hyped up at all i think but it felt like it was due to the long wait in between.

the 4 knocks is either the heartbeatings of two time lords, or that lady in the previews at the end of the episode who's clacking her fingers on the table 4 times, or something else, as in 'this doctor' dies but obviously there will be more doctor who episodes, just not made by RTD and Tennant. I think the idea of specials is fine, though, and kind of prefer them to an ongoing episodic series.

Time Lords have 2 hearts, 4 knocks = heartbeating of 1 Time Lord. But see earlier point about "wouldn't that be unremarkable?"

Would that be unremarkable? Hmm, perhaps, but maybe this is asking too much from RTD et al., - maybe a thing like this might be caught on a Star Trek script, or better yet, in very serious Sci-Fi novels or films, but not by RTD & BBC, who are, let's face it, trying to entertain families & kiddies, not the hardcore SF constituency exclusively. It's not like any non-human language in Doctor Who is actually made by linguists, like Klingon is. They probably have some type of continuity editor, but are they as thorough as ST? Nahh. It's whatever RTD feels 'works', I would guess. Am I wrong? (Sorry if this post makes me sound like an asshole).

the rapidly shaking heads was another dumb gimmick

^The best bit imo.

The best bit was the intro voice over with its 'Christmas is a pagan festival you dumb idiots' line and all the references to trials without juries and rendition flights. Also skiffle bands.

Hope the second part explains the 'sainted physician' gumpfh at the beginning.

And the stuff about the economy and homeless mental people being hungry at Christmas.

Also I thought the '4 knocks' thing was when the Doctor and the Master bumped heads and he hears the Master's drumming.

Perhaps the OTT Obama stuff was to demonstrate that rich black guy/boring daughter were not ciphers for Obamas (a bunch of Americans at my dinner yesterday thought it was both well done and cheesy at the same time, all missing was 'let me be clear' soundbite) yes also this will be on BBC America tonight.

never under-estimate RTD's ability to ruin a story with an unbelievably shitty deus ex machina conclusion.

OTM. See every season finale from S3 onwards. S1 did this too, but had enough set up that it felt somewhat earned.

I feel like I always love RTD's ideas and find his execution mind-bogglingly frustrating. Would it be too much to ask to have a few more moments like that one in the pub, and maybe not feel the need to bring on MORE companions besides Donna and Wilf?

timelord wtf is an anagram of wilfred mott

timelord ftw, more like.

The best bit was the intro voice over with its 'Christmas is a pagan festival you dumb idiots' line

This was terrible, so heavy handed.

Master's resurrection and Lucy Saxon scene = WANK
Cribbins and Tennant in the cafe = great
Master as skeletal cannibal = WANK
Ood scenes = WANK
Oblivious Donna wandering around = great
Gate that can heal other planets = oh hey I wonder which planets you're planning on bringing back here? Gallifrey and Skaro perhaps?
Cribbins as possible secret Timelord trojan horse = could be good
Something much bigger than the Master = Daleks plus Cybermen vs every nu-Who companion ever except Martha, surely?
Timothy Dalton voiceovers = WANK
Whole planet of Masters = OMG AWESOME
Timothy Dalton as King Timelord Dude = OMG AWESOME

Overall it felt like a standard issue Rusty big build-up... 50 minutes of "what is this shit, come on RTD you know you can do better than this" followed by 10 minutes of "OMG AWESOME".

Prediction - Tennant Doctor actually dies, Doctor-Donna enables him to regenerate into Matt Smith.

Also Donna Temple-Noble is a Timelord pun as well surely?

ooh, that last bit's quite a good prediction*. there must have been a point to him mentioning to Wilf in the cafe about dying vs regeneration (other than explaining how all the other timelords are dead, except they possibly aren't...)

the BBC machine's going totally overboard on Tennant right now, I wonder if this is a smokescreen to stop everyone wondering about Billie/Barrowman/Martha/Micky/Sarah-Jane/Gwen etc? They have to explain them all away, right?

xpost * the regen thing - I did mention the temple-noble thing at the time to disinterested other half, but forgot by the time I got to the internetz where people care