Match of the Day vs The Premiership

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Strachan I like too. Did you hear his comments re non-Scottish people starting to laugh (haha, 'starting') at Scotland? Coupled with apparent interest in the national team coach pos if offered, I think he would do better than Vogts.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Sunday, 22 August 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

What I think it is is Chiles has pitched the whole concept to the MOTD responsables, the idea of the lighthearted Sunday night discussion show to take on the Sunday games and then discuss at greater length the weekend's events than MOTD's new broader-focus format would possibly allow, and he's picked out people he wants to work with. Strachan is an obvious choice, a man renowned for his wit but also his knowledge, who, if he can rein in that long-windedness, is perfect for this.

Thing with Day is that Chiles has worked with him on the radio, and it's worked there, but maybe it's more what Day's being given to work with, which would not be funny in the hands of anyone at all - the "have a look through the footage for hilarious moments of a non-contentious nature" thing is flat-out shit. Then again, he doesn't really do anything to inspire any great confidence at all. Roving reports like the one from Norwich last week are the domain of Football Focus, and from Day's real nervousness as regards how to handle it, they'd do very well to stay that way.

I have faith in Chiles, though - the key is that he is a listener who is approaching this from the angle 'What would I like to watch if I was at home?' He's genuinely really very interested in what the panel had to say, he gives them a lot of room, doesn't try to force the discussion. The problem with this is he doesn't really bring much control with it, and he's possibly a touch too respectful - he's sitting across from three immensely experienced and decorated ex-pros and managers/coaches, and he is well aware that his personal opinion is not going to really count for anything - too aware, perhaps.

However, it is very nice to see someone so willing to just take a back seat and let it flow, and who has such genuine enthusiasm for their programme and its format, who isn't just reading off the effing autocue all the time. I really am quite sure this will grow into something very worthwhile now.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

WBS: though OTM re. Viv, you're being far too generous to Chiles. I think you're missing the element of strain and artifice in him: the very deliberate attempt to be some kind of fanzine geezer, on telly. It may be sincere but it feels forced. Also, so much of the time he's reading from his clipboard - that must work better on radio - and he should not be allowed to say rude things on television either. Keep it clean.

Crooksy is magnificent and should be on MotD every week. I feel a bore for saying this.

the bellefox, Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

'he's sitting across from three immensely experienced and decorated ex-pros and managers/coaches, and he is well aware that his personal opinion is not going to really count for anything - too aware, perhaps.'

Well if you believe mourinho, none of these ppl know ANYTHING about 'futbol'.

They think they know but really...they don't!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

You should feel ashamed for saying it. An interviedw between Jacques Santini and Crooks could rival Tarkovsky for utter tedium and lots and lots of time spent revealing precisely cock all.

Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno - I think that's what he's going for, though he's still really not very sure of how he's going about it himself.

What is also interesting about MOTD2 is that it is drawing up very clear lines about who among the BBC's pundit pool would work on it. MOTD2 has already had people that were effective (Anderson, Strachan) and weren't (Houllier). A show that relies on discussion between its pundits requires pundits that are willing to instigate and get involved in that discussion themselves, and it's a very tricky thing to get the tone of it right, to be naturally witty and interesting and not forced or excessively cliquey. I'd be interested to see if "Party On" Garth could do that - if there's one thing he always is, it's himself. I'm fairly sure Schmeichel would be terrible, and Dixon and Bright... do not even go there. Wrighty could do quite well - you'd imagine him, Strachan and Anderson could come up with the odd thing or two to say to each other. Lawro wouldn't work because he's too reliant on being asked questions by the main presenter, and I'm pretty certain that that's a reason why it probably wouldn't suit The Peacock either, he's not the type to go for debates, but rather an analyst who likes making his own statements - that said, he was quite definitely the most effective pundit at the African Nations, and one of the few who was capable of starting a discussion with whoever he was sharing the sofa with (christ knows Crooks couldn't). I'd imagine we can safely rule Hansen out of the equation - he'd probably do alright, but he'd definitely never deign to grace it with his presence + fear of Strachan going at him Martin O'Neill-style.

Thinking about this, though - Strachan and O'Neill (w/Anderson as referee). You'd pay to see that, no?

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Oi, Boyle! D'you want some?

the crookfox, Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Pinefox - you're a man, and you're on a thread. Your name begins with pine and ends in fox, and you're a Spurs fan. You're posting on messageboards after 1am, so the only thing I can begin with by saying is simply this: yes.

Garth B (daveb), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Though looking upthread, MOTD2's ideal presenter reveals itself - James Richardson. Ideally, outside a cafe in Turin with a big frothy cappuccino and a slice of tooth-killing cheesecake while in the background a lone saxophonist performs the greatest hits of Level 42.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

garth crooks?

I think he is terrible.

RJG (RJG), Monday, 23 August 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

adrian chiles presents 'working lunch' (business program) on bbc2.

cºzen (Cozen), Monday, 23 August 2004 06:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I enjoy Crooksy's eloquence and demeanour but I will concede that his analytical nous is inferior to Lawro and Hansen.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I miss James Richardson as well. But to have him working in England would just be odd.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, but since he left, with all the new Coffee shops we have, any UK high street is like Italy now with slightly fewer car crashes in the background.

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

but shit weather. he won't get out of bed unless it's clement.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I won't turn over unless it's Le Frenais.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Adrian Chiles always hunches when he's sitting down. It's his thing.

Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see how this anatomically possible

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Complicated tendon mix up.

Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Adrian 'I'm a Voodoo' Chiles was much better last night. Perhaps he just cheers up when West Brom are on. I know I would. The funny man's female Wenger was quite funny, I thought, funnier than that advert anyway. Not that I fell about or anything. They do 'funny bits' in Spain too. Basically they show some unfunny stuff and the people in the studio are required to laugh raucously. It is usually someone picking their nose. You can imagine how convincing Michael Robinson is. Another thing that seems to have been imported from Spain is obligatory post-match ref-slagging. What a waste of the licence payer's money. MOTD was best when they just had highlights of two matches and you had to wait for Midlands Today for the other goals, which were usually filmed using the club's own cine camera. I like Strachan. I think he is clever at football. I am beginning to like Arsenal. It is Reyes's fault. I think they should have pulled Peter Reid up by his ears, Tiswas-style. I think the U2 song is good.

This week we have extra MOTD on Wednesday! I think Gary L is in charge.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:38 (twenty-one years ago)

MOTD2 is dire. The ironic/semi-serious vibe seems like a fairly desperate attempt to cosy up to the supporters by looking at things *like they do*. The Beeb is always better at sport when it stays with it's natural tone of slight stuffiness.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 23 August 2004 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

If your're wondering what happened to Andy Townsend, he has now dropped down a division and appears on 'The Championship', ITV's Sunday morning round up of Hackney Marshes highlights.

A cringy 'walking across the pitch interview' and cut and paste terrace introduction set the scene. Then 20 minutes of the Plymouth game (including adverts). Still Beautiful Day, which was incorrect because it was cloudy.

MikeyG (MikeyG), Monday, 23 August 2004 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...
Revival, to mention Matt Smith.

Tuesday night, late highlights, after the Rooneyfest, he signed off:

So guess who made the headlines tonight - something old: Trafford - something new - you know who - something borrowed - hardly, at £27m - and, of course, he used to be a Blue. Two words: Wayne Rooney. Third word: Night.

It was so surreally fine that I must write it down, on the spot. But I don't see it being revived and adapted as regularly as 'Remember The Name!'.

the bluefox, Thursday, 30 September 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha, I was going to post that, but forgot about half of it by the time I got to ILX. You are a fine man, mr pinefox.

ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 30 September 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

This morning I watched 'The Championship' - it could have been worse. Lots of 'Footbal Focus'-type interludes that I don't really care for.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 3 October 2004 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

The Score Interactive service on BBCi is starting to outstrip Sky Sports News for ex-pros-look-at-monitors-and-grumble Saturday afternoon excellence. The reason: their golden reserves of archive footage.

During the good bit of yesterday afternoon (before Redknapp* tried to maim Cahill and things went wrong at Goodison) there was a compendium of Garth Crooks light entertainment moments - including the great man introducing Altered Images on TOTP in 1982 alongside Peter Powell! I nearly choked on my cashews.

(* - in the Goodison h/t tunnel scuffle Redknapp was initially cited as the peacemaker. Steve McMahon said, "You're jokin'. He was in the piano with the lid down." Fantastic.)

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 3 October 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Alan Hansen more or less called Adrian Chiles a twat last night, unless I missed some ironic intent. There certainly seemed to be some tension. At one point you could see Hansen and Strachan talking over Chiles in a 'what's he on about?' sort of way. But I couldn't really tell what was going on. I wonder if The Pinefox, or anyone else for that matter, saw it, and whether it was 'quality punditry' or just rudeness.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Also the introduction of Hansen meant 15 minutes more programme.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

hansen was brusque to the point of rude. he said chiles didn't know what he was talking about (about defending, unsurprisingly). he also said he prefered doing the saturday show because at least the questions were relevant. he was playing up a bit.

Pete W (peterw), Monday, 4 October 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Strachan on the Boro/Manyoo game was great last night. Its so nice to see pundits accentuating what Boro did well rather than "what went wrong" with United.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 4 October 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

He is, I think, a quality pundit. And he always mentions his son.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Strachan's terrific.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 October 2004 09:21 (twenty-one years ago)

And Hansen's doing the 'what can anyone who's never played bring to the party' in which case, we'll all fuck off Alan and leave you and some old alcoholics to talk about something amongst yourselves YOU TIT

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 4 October 2004 10:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Chiles is rub but its his job to present, not to provide indepth analysis, thats what the licence payers give Hansen and Strachan a boatload of money for.

Alan Hansen never tried it quite so obviously with Des.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 4 October 2004 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, but when he (Chiles) then offers strident comment on teams (ie, Chelsea are wrong to defend so deep), surely he leaves himself open to criticism? i would like to see more proper journos doing MOTD, like Kevin McCarra, not stooges like Chiles.

Pete W (peterw), Monday, 4 October 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

The Championship has been showing its true colours recently, seemingly giving West Ham the lead game every week. It is still better than having to wait for Nationwide League Extra.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Monday, 4 October 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

They're just bullied out of the way - I recall Ian Ridley on the Premiership last year and he was talking sense, but the other players on the panel almost couldn't let him get away with it; it's like antibodies in the bloodstream - they have to keep out alien influences.

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 4 October 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

My problem with this is that they are (presumably) colleagues, all BBC employees, so it's not nice to not be nice, especially in public. It is workplace bullying (I'm sure there's a proper word for that).

I hope Chiles continues to speak his mind, right or wrong. I mean, I don't think he's very good at this, but no one would want to watch Hansen going round a fish finger factory either.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think Hansen was being that serious, he was just doing his hard-man stern-faced Clint impression.

Pete W (peterw), Monday, 4 October 2004 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd watch Alan Hansen going round a fish finger factory. "Ay, that's a great catch, but the battering was diabolical..."

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 4 October 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Alan Hansen more or less called Adrian Chiles a twat last night

To paraphrase John Cooper Clarke. "They can’t find a good word for you Hansen, but I can... TWAT." I've never forgiven the cunt for losing that goal against Russia in the 1982 World Cup, they should show that more often, that might shut him up.

Didoismus (Dada), Monday, 4 October 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, I would quite like Chiles not to speak his mind, but you know what I mean.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a feeling Adrian Chiles knows considerably more about football than Des Lynam - at least he likes the game

Didoismus (Dada), Monday, 4 October 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

At one pint Chiles picked Hansen up for his 'average, appalling, abysmal' description of Liverpool. Perhaps he was still sulking about that.

As you can see, I've been thinking about this all day.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Miller, I saw it too, and like you I was struck and puzzled. I think I was also entertained.

I am not sure whether AH meant any of it. He did say 'I'm kiddin', by the way - I'm only kiddin''.

I very much agree with Mr Miller, though, that they must get along, as colleagues, and that bullying is wrong.

I think it was seen as an Event that they had managed to get Hansen on at all. He stands somewhat aloof from these 'secondary programmes'. If he goes on Focus, he's always late.

Mike -- this Crooks montage -- are you sure you're not just making it up to get me excited and regretful that I didn't see it?

the bellefox, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

The Crooks thing really happened - a song and dance routine with Leo Sayer and a Gotcha! appearance on the Noel Edmonds show with Mr Blobby were also included. Garth was genuinely embarrassed by it all. McMahon: "Get it off, Ray - he's sweatin' cobs here!"

Carlton Palmer was the loose cannon on the show - ready to give his opinion on an apparently fictional training ground bust-up between Bent and Gravesen ("I'm not surprised those two went at it, cos..." Stubbs: "But it didn't happen, Carlton.") and also carelessly wading in on dubious refereeing decisions. Maybe they won't invite him back.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Carlton Palmer is weird - he looks about 12 years old and he must be pushing 40

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

But Palmer was PUNDIT OF THE WEEK!

the bellefox, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

You really did say 'a song and dance routine with Leo Sayer', didn't you?

the garthfox, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw Carlton on Saturday evening at St pancras station. He was wearing a hideous jacket.

Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)


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