westerns: CoD

That said the reason for the popularity of the Western in McCarthy/Eisenhower-era America is down to the elements of subversion which fly naturally to Western story lines. The desires and solid moral centre at the heart of an apparent outlaw or loner with a gun was the chief means of conveying the sentiments of a lot of blacklisted screenwriters fucked over by the Un-American Activities posse, as in High Noon, written by Carl Foreman, whose credit was altered to a pseudonym due to his blacklisting. The cowboy figure could be used to address all sorts of social injustices; his value as a positive symbol of American expansion made it possible for the cowboy to be a Trojan horse for many subversive or idealist ideas, whether socialism, the cost of racism, commentary on current political maneuvering, anti-war sentiments, and much later, all kinds of male sexuality.

Okay so I know I hate Westerns when on paper it appears that I have an appreciation for the form. This is true; I just failed to be captivated by the play-out of action over three fucking hours while own father, the aficionado, snores and farts in sofa-sleep. And I hate hate hate films with guns.

u & k westerns: Blood On The Moon with mitchum (kind of atypical in tone, somehow closer to noir but still firmly in the tradition). n.ray's Johnny Guitar!!! the a.mann/j.stewart pictures are great too. king vidor's are very boring, but worth glimpsing just for the strange technicolor set -pieces.

the idea that the specifics of current events became harder to find analogues for within western archetypes is a great one, mark. it runs circles around the standard "westerns died because of their outdated B&W morality" line, which fails to account for even hawks and ford really [bah - excized bit which suzy just covered better]

a close second is "Red River," because of the weirdly unresolved relationship between Monty Clift and John Ireland ("There are only two things more beautiful than a good gun, a woman or a Swiss watch...Ever had a good Swiss watch?") and Wayne's shockingly nasty performance.

(it bloody well should, it cast the three least appealing people I could think of in Catherine Zeta Jones, Richard Gere and Renne Zellwegger - do the producers hate personality?)

I'd also mention some good TV based on books by the wonderful Larry McMurtry. Everyone should see Lonesome Dove, if only for Robert Duvall giving my favourite EVAH TV performance. The sequel The Streets Of Laredo has James Garner taking the role played by Tommy Lee Jones in LD, and is excellent too. The original books (four by now) are, for me, the best westerns ever written, some of the best historical novels of any kind, and an immense joy to read. On another level, Elmore Leonard's westerns are nearly as enjoyable as his contemporary thrillers.

It's official. The world-historic death of the musical film is upon us. It's been said before, but usually followed by some caveat about how (Woody Allen/Lars Von Trier/Rivette/Parker&Stone/etc.) intends to resurrect it. But the musical is no longer a mode of expression, a cultural norm, a form in concert with an era. Rather, it is another tool in a directorial canon, a device to comment with and to comment on. Passed from the realm of the living, it resides in a cultural graveyard of tropes subject to periodic reanimation. To produce a musical film is not a reflex action, but a deliberate semiotic act.

Tune back to the early days of talkies, and remember an era before television. A film was an event, a plan for a day. All forms of entertainment assumed an organic single form. One couldn't flip between CNN, HBO, MTV, NBC. There weren't half-hour blocks of various format. If you wanted your drama, your music, your comedy, it all had to come in one neat package. Why did people sing in films? Well, where else were they going to? It was natural. But as mass media further massed itself, sharper simpler genres emerged. The art-house became specialized, the music became specialized, and it all began to be stripped away, piece by piece. To produce a musical today is to hark back to that simpler era, to reassemble the diaspora of the entertainment industry, to swim against the spirit of the times which demands ever more division of the labor of fun.

The staged musical continues to flourish, but only as a celebration of spectacle over substance. The stage has nothing to offer over the big and little screens but flash. Webber's triumph is the downfall of large-form theater, as staged musicals become less events than phenomena, cross marketed and subject to endless sitcom jokes, thrown on bestselling albums and onto the billboard singles chart. But at least reality remains suspended. Film's situation is even worse. No longer can a character burst into song. They must sing for a reason, and the reason becomes, again and again, a commentary on the nature of song itself. Dancer In The Dark was a wry commentary on the musical, demanding near-Dogme restrictions on it, but in the end an exultation of the musical, of imagination and escape, a great lost dream cut short by the hangman's noose of grey reality. But burying Bjork's character wasn't enough to bury the musical film. Moulin Rouge, however, while still imperfect, may be the best memorial service we will ever be offered.

http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/moulinrouge.html

My fav westerns are Peckinpah coz he did the best films ever. I also like the one with Dean Martin. The closest we have to replace them are, I think, techno-thrillers which rely as much on the restriction of space to play out their tropes (mainly similar) as western's did on the expansiveness of it. Cf that Will Smith film where he's hunted by satellites.

LETS GO

Sorry couldnt resist returning for this.

martin - all my ford comments were in the paragraph i deleted. short version: searchers and liberty valance are especially tremendous, and more complex character-wise than the genre is usually credited for. i'll second your sturges nod too, particularily Bad Day at Black Rock, whether it fully qualifies as a western or not.

the only peckinpah movies i like have winnebagos and satanists in them. leone never did it for me either, not sure why.

(but surely failure in rendering social metaphors includes failure to cope with broader moralities? i see the distinction but not the break)

so are we including samurai films? yakuza films? ("easterns"?)

i'll have to mull over the metaphors/moralities question: i may be seeing the distinction but not the break myself.

You wan Anjel, no? Okay...I am going to geev eem to you...

ahhhh the Wild Bunch perhaps a childhood of violent classic westerns has left a nasty stain, still "I wouldnt have it any other way";)

And does that bastard McMurtry give me a cut of the royalties? NO!

1. Once Upon a Time in the West.
2. All the Pretty Horses (novel).
3. Unforgiven.
4. Blueberry (comic).
5. Deadwood.
6. Dead Man.
7. Brokeback Mountain.
8. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (I can't actually remember which Man With No Name film is which, but this one has the best theme tune).
9. Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid.
10. Blazin' Saddles.

b-b-but Joyce didn't write a lot of westerns, did he?
Is this a sly reference to Joseph Cotten/Holly Martin's speech at the cultural center in The Third Man?

More than a decade ago I saw the start of what looked like a quiet cowboy film set in the snowy mountains. Even though I'm not really into these films the setting really impressed me, it seemed incredibly atmospheric but I was far too tired to watch it. Maybe the film didn't stick to that setting but I hope it did. It looked like it was from 60s/70s, it was in color.

Ring any bells? I'd love to know what it is.

any actors at all?

like chaps idea of multi media picks

books: yeah to McCarthy, particularly all the pretty horses. sudden books, by the excellently named Oliver strange, good pulp stuff from maybe the 60's I guess? jack reacher of its time. and there's another uberviolent series similar that'll come to me, was it edge? yeah I think it was: edge. jt edson stuff decent reads, little formulaic. haven't read lonesome dove but I'll get to it.

TV obv deadwood. haven't seen lonesome dove, I'll get to it.

movies: few dollars more, once upon a time in the west from Leone. Rio bravo for the gaudier style, tho tbrr I never dug john Wayne much besides.

No clue who the actors were. I can't even remember what language it was in.

lol well played

Never mind Lonesome Dove darraghmac check out Yojimbo and Sanjuro. Once you have watched Toshiro Mifune in his pomp then Clint Eastwood becomes completely unnecessary.

I like lots of unnecessary stuff! but yeah I've meant to check that stuff out for a long time too

was given recs of some obscure 70's westerns from an aul fella at the weekend but damned if I remember anything of it now

seven samurai is the
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Best_Western_logo.svg/602px-Best_Western_logo.svg.png

There's some great 70s revisionist westerns - Jeremiah Johnson, McCabe and Mrs Miller, The Missouri Breaks

No Shane, High Noon or Liberty Valance here!

Congratulations on being the first person in the history of the internet to post a "Best 26" list of western movies!

btw, I agree with you about Ride the High Country vs. The Wild Bunch. It's a pretty sweet list you've put together there.

I'm not so happy with that list; there's at least six Italian westerns that I'd put up there

started watching Shoot Down the Sun last night, p odd (although tbh maybe not odd enough), but with a great cast.

generally a big fan of the "revisionist" and counter-culture westerns that proliferated in the wake of Peckinpah and Leone - from Ride the High Country and the Shooting through stuff like Comes a Horseman. Would include El Topo in here too

has anybody seen this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hired_Hand

Comes up a lot, mostly because of Bruce Langhorne soundtrack, I think, but no.

has anybody seen this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hired_Hand

Yes, it's one of the must-see revisionist westerns of the '70s. Low-key, very well acted.

The western historian Philip French points to 1972 as a watershed year for the genre, based on films such as The Culpepper Cattle Company, The Cowboys, Jeremiah Johnson, Bad Company, and Ulzana's Raid. But one could extend that to 1971-1973 imo, to take in The Hired Hand, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, and (though I'm not such a fan of it) High Plains Drifter, among others.

The Culpepper Cattle Company, The Cowboys, Jeremiah Johnson, Bad Company, and Ulzana's Raid

never seen any of these, but have at least heard of the last two

...and Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid for 1973 also

The Cowboys is John Wayne training a gang of young boys to be tough (double meaning in the title). Was supposed to be Wayne's last western but he came back to make The Shootist, which is superior though not flawless imo

the only John Wayne movie I've ever seen is the Searchers.

The Cowboys is also notable because <SPOILER ALERT> it's one of the few films where Wayne is killed onscreen, in this case by Bruce Dern as a character called "Longhair" (SYMBOLISM).

xps Wayne also came back to do the Rooster Cogburn movie w/Kate Hepburn.

But back to The Hired Hand, I remember it being good, but disappointing. Will need to rescreen.

xp oh yeah forgot. I've never seen Rooster Cogburn thanks to tepid word of mouth on it

revising my opinion of Shoot Down the Sun upwards after getting to the end, has a great ending sequence

Warlock, a novel quite popular on I Love Books, was made into a Cinemascope oater by producer-director Edward Dmytryk in 1959, and damn it is a weird one (tho less so than the book, of which I've read 50 pages). Henry Fonda is an Earp-like freelance "marshal" hired to clean up a mining town, his gambler sidekick and possible lover Anthony Quinn in tow. Richard Widmark is their semi-antagonist, Dorothy Malone a vengeful figure from the past. (Star Trek's future Dr McCoy also has a sizeable role as one of the cowboy gang.)

Also very weirdly, Widmark's younger brother is played by Frank Gorshin, later a popular TV/club impressionist whose act regularly featured his Widmark imitation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgLUMPjuHy4

It's just barely a western, but nowhere else for this...I'm positive that anyone who loves The Straight Story will also love The Grey Fox, Richard Farnsworth's Canadian film from 1982. (Coppola's company distributed it in the U.S. when it came out.) I never saw it back then, and I wouldn't be surprised if I never get a chance to see it again. Worth the wait--much beauty in the love story, the cinematography, the soundtrack (the Chieftains, a few years after Barry Lyndon, and a line in the prologue about Farnsworth's character, leaving San Quentin in 1901 after 33 years, being "released into the 20th century."

Dmytryk's Warlock (see above) now on Blu

https://www.slantmagazine.com/dvd/review-edward-dmytryks-warlock-on-twilight-time-blu-ray/

have seen 91

https://www.slantmagazine.com/features/the-100-best-westerns-of-all-time/

The Lone Ranger, eh

they kinda fumbled at the goal line listing The Searchers as a 1965 movie

well, typos happen

Have seen 69, though there's 3-4 I'm not sure about. Have seen very few of the ones from the 2000s.

It's an OK list, a bit safe maybe. I'd put Jesse James (1939) on there, as well as A Bullet for the General(1966), The Big Gundown (1967), and The Hired Hand (1971) off the top of my head.

I haven't verified it for myself, but I've actually heard good things about The Lone Ranger. It seemed to be one of those movies that started developing a minor cult within months of flopping at the box office. Still not sure I want to subject myself to more Depp mugging, though.

Pale Rider seems like a more questionable inclusion. I remember it being pretty bad.

had no idea Tombstone (1993) was directed by Panos Cosmatos' dad.

Only seen 56 of these. Making some notes for future viewing.

had no idea Tombstone (1993) was directed by Panos Cosmatos' dad.

As I understand it was mostly directed by Kurt Russell

I've seen 38 by a quick count. I guess I should see The Naked Spur and Johnny Guitar soon.

The Naked Spur is very good; I prefer it to the somewhat overpraised Winchester '73.

Out of these that I haven't seen does anyone have a particular recommendation?

Wagon Master
The Violent Men
Doc
Silver Lode
I Shot Jesse James
Canyon Passage
Day of the Outlaw

Dan Duryea pretty much ruins Night Passage for me, yeeesh the overacting. Character is supposed to be villainous and threatening but comes across as laughable. Think I've liked him in other things and don't recall him being such a scenery chewer.

I do! But I like his brand.

Gonna have a Lee Van Cleef marathon thanks to the library: Sabata trilogy, plus Death Rides a Horse

Need to get on those Sabatas, LOVE the Cantori Moderni theme song to one of 'em.

Death Rides A Horse was a disappointment. Fav non-Leone spaghetti Van Cleef so far was Day Of Anger.

lol the back cover of the Death Rides a Horse dvd has a formatting error and discloses the "surprising turn" in the plot

putting Day of Anger on my list

Just watched Allan Dwan's Silver Lode, which if anything is more direct about its HUAC allegory than High Noon -- Dan Duryea's villain is named McCarty. DD and Dolores Moran as the good-bad prostitute supply the acting juice; Lizabeth Scott is kinda wasted as hero John Payne's loyal bride. (Oh yeah it's set in the middle of a July 4th celebration.) One great long tracking shot as Payne dodges fire, one of the better Dwan films I've seen out of 20.

RFI what is the meaning of the Jeremiah Johnson gif?

"i nod in approval." don't overthink it.

New list: https://www.indiewire.com/gallery/best-western-movies-of-all-time/

I enjoyed reading this -- it gave me a few titles to check out and a lot to rewatch. I don't care about the rankings so their #1 was funny to me though I would place their #2 above it, and the writers make (mostly) strong cases for all the picks.

the article was painfully slow to load, at least for me, but I also enjoyed it and can't quibble with their top 5