why must every moderately successful store in the UK be immediately turned into a chain?

It seems to me that people go into business to create a chain in the UK more than anywhere else. It is written into the business plan from the start. Hardly anyone goes into business to create one very good store.

Unless you just buy the Daily Mail for monetary reasons. If you had more money you'd buy International Herald Tribune.

xxp

isn't it amazing how self-identified lefties can get suddenly patriotic when someone besides them "criticizes" something about their country?? (i speak from experience, here)

by the way, the daily mail "save our shops" campaign is great

I'm not British/English, Tracer.

I like Wagamama. I like Pizza Express. I don't know Masala Zone.

If all three cater for "common denominator" food, then they are doing a fairly good job of it.

There are better places I would go for great Thai food, Italian food, of course. And there are too many curry places to even bother with Masala Zone. But hey, when you're hungry, it's there.

lol "nation of shopkeepers"

Tracer, ILE is all about instant Twattery nowadays.

I'm not sure how much this applies outside london but my experience is that it does. I think there must be a book out there on how to write business plans that says you have to include stores two and three in the longterm expansion plans.

Tracer, ILE is all about instant Twattery nowadays.

the old twattery was brought in on horse-and-cart and lovingly prepared in the kitchen that very morning.

Slow twattery movement

by the way, the ILX "save our twattery" campaign is great

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 5 November 2007 11:38 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

OK, I'll bite.

Tracer, why is less choice and higher prices such a great thing on the high street? Why do we need to "save our shops", are the livelihoods of the middle class really so much more important than lower shopping bills and increased food awareness amongst the general public?

WE HAVE A LITTLE TESCO IN MY TOWN, I HOPE IT DOESN'T GO NATIONWIDE IT'S LOVELY.

increased food awareness lol

Lidl sells langoustines, pheasant, and grouse. Patel's 24 Hours News and Food doesn't.

from the pizza express thread, Mark C says:

"when you need to find a place on any high street with which a group of people will all be happy, when you know the quality, hygiene etc is going to be of an acceptable level, and at a price most people are okay"

mcdonald's became a force at around the same time as holiday inn did. both took advantage of the massive demand from the new generation of interstate highway travellers for places that felt safe and clean, which many roadside motels and burger shacks did not.

i guess there is still something a little unsettling about other people making your food, hidden from view. i talked to a cab driver once (in manhattan) who said that he never ate in restaurants, EVER, because you don't know who's making your food and what they've just done with their hands.

xpost - the prices are only higher in relation to the bulk-rate deals made possible by the chains' enormous quantities of scale. we need to "save our shops" because independent stores give neighborhoods character and identity. in the case of the daily mail of course they undermine their own capaign at every turn but hey, that's the tabs for you

i'm all in favour of lidl - there should always be a place for "weird lots" discounter warehouses

Oh yes and there's that Iceland ad where Kerry serves have prawn canapes and filo parcels, mm tasty.

Patel's 24h = Payless or Costcutter.

xpost

serves have

^^^i thought you were australian?

again from the pizza express thread, ailsa says -

Of course I prefer to go to places where the food is freshly sourced and prepared, but sometimes it is nice just to not have to cook/wash up and on occasions like that then all I want is food that I know that I, and others in my company, will enjoy. Pizza Express/Chiquitos/Nandos etc all do that pretty well. I'm not pretending they are anything special or fancy, but they aren't McDonalds either.

it's just amazing to me that anything besides a chain is "special and fancy" to you guys

?! xp

we need to "save our shops" because independent stores give neighborhoods character and identity.
-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 5 November 2007 11:58 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

^^^I actually understand what you're saying, and I do have some, loose, sympathy for it, but surely it's a point that only applies to middle class neighborhoods, suburbs, and villages? Because I sure as hell wouldn't argue that the "character and identity" of where I grew up has been lessened by two Tesco expresses taking over a laundrette and offy.

?! xp

-- ledge, Monday, 5 November 2007 12:05 (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

Actually, I'm thinking of haitch. Ignore.

it's just amazing to me that anything besides a chain is "special and fancy" to you guys

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 5 November 2007 12:03 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

When I was a child, fucking Little Chef was "special and fancy".

have you not just answered your own question with mark c's quote, tracer?

esp with food, it's the comfort level thing isn't it of having the mediocre but it's the mediocre you know.

it's like ILX and sam smiths, in a way.

bahaha

i mean, i know and enjoy the pork buns at the vietnamese grocery across the street and they cost like £1.10 each, and they're delicious. not sure about the "hygiene" standards there of course, they might not be quite as diligent as the 17-year-olds who clean the pizza express bathrooms

basically what i am saying, is that you are all unimaginative, lazy bastards.

and also: how do you measure moderate success?

xpost - the prices are only higher in relation to the bulk-rate deals made possible by the chains' enormous quantities of scale.

i'm not seeing how this is a negative thing? i can afford to buy good food freshly stocked at , for instance, my local tesco. my local 'character and identity' local stores are stocked with overpriced cans/packaged food or rotting fruit/veg that's been there all week.

i should point out that i live in a rural area, and not in the UK, but i still don't see why there should be a campaign to turn overpriced corner shops into subsidised museums.

r-o-l-a-i-d-s

xpost

i mean, i know and enjoy the pork buns at the vietnamese grocery across the street and they cost like £1.10 each, and they're delicious. not sure about the "hygiene" standards there of course, they might not be quite as diligent as the 17-year-olds who clean the pizza express bathrooms

basically what i am saying, is that you are all unimaginative, lazy bastards.

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 5 November 2007 12:07 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.brandrepublic.com/Industry/Media/News/764495/BBC-needs-shake-off-London-centric-image/

CAN I GET TO THE VIETNAMESE GROCERY ACROSS YOUR STREET AND BE BACK AT WORK FOR 1 DO YOU THINK?

With the exception of my butcher (apart from their burgers, which are shockingly bad), the small shops remaining in the arcade near me sell vastly expensive produce of a much lower quality than Sainsburys. Doesn't mean I don't shop there but it's a depressing experience.

it's just amazing to me that anything besides a chain is "special and fancy" to you guys

Er, where did I say that? I said I realised that Pizza Express/Chain-Restaurants'R'Us wasn't special or fancy, that doesn't extrapolate to "but everything else is".

it's just amazing to me that anything besides a chain is "special and fancy" to you guys

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i'd argue that it's exactly because indies in the price-range of pizza express aren't (necessarily) special and fancy that people see no reason to go with the unknown.

i mean, i know and enjoy the pork buns at the vietnamese grocery across the street and they cost like £1.10 each, and they're delicious. not sure about the "hygiene" standards there of course, they might not be quite as diligent as the 17-year-olds who clean the pizza express bathrooms

well done for living somewhere with a vietnamese grocery: possibly this is not a universal experience in britain.

Noodle Vague, not hiring a personal jet to fly from Hull to London to get a pork bun is just a monetary issue.

Tracer, seriously, just tap out and say "I have no idea of what Britain is like outside of my limited experience of professional life in London", and end it there.

i would go to the dentist to fix my bad teeth but it's raining all the time

i went to a very nice grocery store in hull actually. they sold fantastic yams and thai goodies.

Why do so many people ride on these ghastly "buses"?

Or maybe I'll just form grand metanarratives about what life is like in America based on the short clips of my flatmate's Ugly Betty DVDs I've seen.

xxxp

It may well result in lower prices but increased power and market share for larger companies doesn't benefit people in the long run. Once the competition has been squeezed out the larger stores are in control of pricing. And are we really sure prices in chains are cheap? I think it is something of a myth - the prices in Tesco Express or Sainsburys Local are very high! And as for Little Chef I have no idea how people afford to eat there.

At the other end producers have fewer customers, just bigger customers with more economic weight. We may have more choice this way but I would argue the quality of the food we eat isn't so good - looking at the uniformity of the fruit and vegetables in supermarkets is less than appealing

Even if the supermarkets priced out every small shop in the country they wouldn't be able to go "right, let's triple prices" because of anti-cartel and monopoly laws.

The point being made here is that there is this system called capitalism that is rather popular with the yoot right now.

This is like when idiot football fans wonder why Chairmen are only in it for the money.

i agree with dom: we got to do something about these folks who just come to our country, steal our jobs, and diss our pizza express.

I would argue the quality of the food we eat isn't so good

i must go and ask my 93-year-old grandmother about the wonderful range of quality food available to her in in 1930s liverpool.

mark presumably these crappy, expensive butchers will not become even moderately successful and therefore will not become chains.

xpost ok ailsa, but i do get that impression a lot. i.e. "going out to eat in the UK is a big deal" - i.e. special, fancy - UNLESS you go to low-pressure, universally-acceptable chains.

isn't it amazing how self-identified lefties can get suddenly patriotic when someone besides them "criticizes" something about their country?? (i speak from experience, here)

^^^Me - accept it's not patriotism more frustration with people who want everything right all the time and don't want to pay for it and they want a tax rebate with that and free money and the sun to shine every day.

Meanwhile...

Hotel Chocolat seems to be expanding at quite a rate and I cannot believe they will be able to maintain quality...ahem...across the brand. I don't know why that is though.

I was discussing this the other day; comparing London to NYC and Chicago and even Orlando (on the north side, not down by Universal/Disneyland). London is much more chain dominated than these US cities Starbucks is easier to find in London than New York. i think we give into the chain values thing very easily here.

There are two questions here. Why do the brits love chains more than, say, the Italians?

Why does most people founding a retail business have 'chain' in the back of their mind when they do it?

One feeds off the other, of course. It comes down to the money. The culture of money is very much get as much as you can as fast as you can. Look at the expansion rates of Leon, Bodeans, or Masala zone. No one goes out to found the best rib restaurant in town and be satisfied with that and the money it brings in. I think people measure their success now, not by absolute sums of money, but by growth rates.

i do get that impression a lot. i.e. "going out to eat in the UK is a big deal" - i.e. special, fancy - UNLESS you go to low-pressure, universally-acceptable chains.

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:16 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

that's kind of about right -- proper restaurants require booking and shit.

eating out was a big deal when i was growing up, and as dom will attest, i'm fairly middle-class.

dom i have been to bishop's stortford, that was enough for me

http://www.natallnews.com/images/teaser/george-lincoln-rockwell.jpg

"Ive seen what Camden council have done to destroy the fabulousness that was once Camden Market, and I dont want to see the same in N16.
Most small, interesting shops and businesses like family run cake shops were shut down to make way for 2 Pret A Mangers, Hennes, mobile phone shops and naff indoor markets full of tourist tat and football shirts.
So corporate and dull..."

Just thought I'd let people know about the fact our MP is on our side!!! She's going to write to the council to register my unhappiness. Let's hear it for democracy in action!!!

i'd be over the moon too if Diane 'Incorruptible' Abbott was on my side too!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nndb.com/people/533/000114191/OMosley.JPG

"I've nothing completely overbearing against chain franchises in general, but dear Christ - anything but Nandos. Seeing as their customer base seems to consist of people whose main preoccupations in life are a) breeding Pit Bulls, b) listening to misogynist hip-hop and c) getting into fights in Wetherspoons, I don't want my beloved Stokie being dragged into the gutter."

lol at one of one of the guys there going "Yes, I got a reply from Diane Abbott too. Maybe shes not as lazy as I thought".

She's so well spoken, as well.

Too right, it seems we can't try and protect our tiny "green belt" of a street without misguided KFC-lovers claiming we are being "white and middle class." I'm a common-as-muck Irish country bumpkin

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/profile6/817/78/s634652690_3701.jpg

xpost

I heard she listens to misogynist hip-hop tho.

http://uashome.alaska.edu/~jndfg20/website/potemkin.gif

Hmm, wonder if we could get Mr Fearnley-Whittingstall involved? Not entirely sure if the pieces of chicken corpse littering our streets have ever been part of a "happy" chicken (doubt very much if they've ever been part of a chicken).

Someone find a good quote to use with a picture of Ballard Berkeley.

http://www.sitcom.co.uk/fawlty_towers/graphics/char_major.gif

"You can't get a can-opener in Tesco. That's how bollocks Tesco's are."

http://www.leninimports.com/heinrich_himmler_1.jpg

listen, i like chicken as much as the next omnivorous man.... infact, some of my best friends are chickens. but this is too much....

http://static.flickr.com/66/165090854_d19110f1ca.jpg

"Dave, come back when you have learned how to construct a sentence. Is it a coincidence that all the big Tesco fans seem to be illiterate as well?"

6 years ago there was a campaign against Fresh and Wild

wao

dunno if this is mentioned on the fb group but it does seem a bit fucked up putting a Nandos on Church St when there's one half a mile down the Kingsland Road already.

Nando's is actually a front for SWP trolling, is why.

dunno if this is mentioned on the fb group but it does seem a bit fucked up putting a Nandos on Church St when there's one half a mile down the Kingsland Road already.

-- blueski, Monday, 21 April 2008 01:20 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^^^SOMEONE doesn't like red pepper dip with flatbreads.

Think I can get some support for an "Open a Spearmint Rhino on Stoke Newington High Street" group?

C'mon they've already had to put up with an Oddbins on their street!

Oddbins--the off license solely patronised by pit bull owners.

Isn't there a campaign to put a massive glass dome around 'Stokey' to prevent anyone wandering in from Hackney or Tottenham?

noodle, dom and grimly very OTM on this thread.

Upper-middle London experience /= "the UK"

they've even found room for two of those world's-scuzziest-chicken-vending Nandos in Oxford.

Results 1 - 10 of about 152,000 for stokey.

from what i gather about eating out in the 70s or in MODERN DAY SUDAN, nandos is okay, in the grand scheme of things and in historical perspective. hell, i've probably even shared breathing space with people who have eaten in nandos and enjoyed it -- while on public transport perhaps, or waiting in line at the bank.

Hull now has a nandos.
http://blogs.orange.co.uk/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/17/prezza_17aug07_pa_200.jpg

http://planetsmilies.net/vomit-smiley-9529.gif

Been there. No sign of JP. Or Pit Bulls, come to think of it.

could do with some KFC now i think of it

Could go for a Nando's right now.

Worcester looks like it's to be getting a KFC, at-fucking-last.

The online networking site Facebook even has a special group called KFC in Worcester dedicated to campaigning for the firm to open an outlet in the city. The group boasts 318 members.

Marc Stuart wrote: "Worcester can't call itself a city without a KFC."

^Marc unloads a truth mega bomb right there.

JFC

Posh dirty chicken

The start of this thread is awesome. It really sorts the good from the bad and the ugly.

^^solid, substantive argument, like it.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40871000/jpg/_40871308_cleese.jpg

i mean, i know and enjoy the pork buns at the vietnamese grocery across the street and they cost like £1.10 each, and they're delicious. not sure about the "hygiene" standards there of course, they might not be quite as diligent as the 17-year-olds who clean the pizza express bathrooms

basically what i am saying, is that you are all unimaginative, lazy bastards.

― Tracer Hand, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:07 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^with classic shit like this, how could we compete?

RIP

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/22/casual-dining-crunch-jamies-italian-strada-byron-struggling

“I ate in the Liverpool Jamie’s two months ago and it was possibly the worst meal I’ve ever had. It was appalling. I ordered what was supposed to be sausage ragout. It looked like boiled tomatoes with overcooked pasta, and it tasted the same.”

quelle fucking surprise. His recipes are 90% garbage when you don't cut corners with them.

i'd be up for reading a full interview with this guy ranting about horrible chain restaurants.

Reaction to Tracer's original post itt pretty unfair imo.