"The Wire" on HBO

Yeah, he's a good character. His son is unwatchably annoying, even though I know he's supposed to be annoying on some level. The nephew also leaves me a bit cold. The port cop is likeable - she's obviously going to be the surprise "real police after all" character.

ziggy is the son. frank is the father.

ah fuk. Pre-coffee posting.

she's obviously going to be the surprise "real police after all" character

watch the show, smart guy

"I don't know if it's just a function of the fact that they're a bunch of depressed, sporadically employed drunks, or whether the writers just don't have as much affection for them, although I feel like it's the latter."

I thought they were really engaging and I think the writers have a lot of affection and sympathy for them!

yeah i still dont get why people are so down on season 2 or the dock workers in general

I wasn't into the dock characters at first just because it was so different, but I ended up loving season 2 (agreed re: the getting the old team back together thing, it almost felt like a comic book-style reset).

I like season 2 but I think they could've done some slightly more interesting things to address Baltimore's depressed post-industrial workforce. I mean, I think the decline of Bethlehem Steel had a bigger impact on Baltimore's working class than the docks, but that'd probably be harder to work into a show about cops and criminals.

Simon said in an interview I heard that he thought about other aspect's of Baltimore industry but went with the docks partly for aesthetic reasons.

I don't mean to be overly down on the dock workers or S2 - I like them fine but it's just a slight letdown from S1.

ziggy actor is going to be one of the leads in 'generation kill'

I think someone said it upthread a ways, but season two really is just a big ol' tangent. Which is audacious, I think. I mean, you do get some big picture stuff, you meet Prop Joe, that kind of thing, but by and large it's ott.

ott???

off the topic

the topic is baltimore

saw ziggy on 2nd ave last nite

there was an awesome bit on gawker a while back about ziggy not only preventing a rape from happening in his bldg's vestibule but chasing the rapist down and beating him with a 2'x4' or something because he hates people who disrespect women.

yeah so awes. i think theres an article linked ot or excerpted upthread. almost makes up for the auto-erotic asphyxiation in that larry clark shitbomb.

ott doesn't mean off the topic

i reaaally wish i hadnt seen that scene

OTT = OVER THE TOP JERKIES

I DONT KNOW MY OTT FROM MY TRU DATS

I've been using it to mean off the topic for a long time. I'm surprised no one called me on it. I must have been writing some weird sentences.

IT STANDS FOR OMGLOLWTF JERX

OT

PITCHFORK'S OTT

I think that season two kind of was a tangent (the dockworker stuff, anyway), at least insofar as it isn't that deeply intertwined with the rest of the series as a whole. It would be a different story if, for instance, we were still following characters within the Polish community and we saw how their lives were affected by the events that make up the main thrust of the series. I guess that one could argue that the tangential nature was intentional, depending on how segregated Baltimore really is and how little interaction there generally is between those communities.

Season 2 is crucial if only for "did it have any hands or feet? Then it wasn't me!"

season 2 also spread out their universe which i think was necessary for balance

Oh, and another thing about Season 2 is that a homicide division (or subbranch thereof) is going to have to investigate crimes other than those about the main plotline of the show, but you still learn about Prop Joe, Cheese, Beadie, the Greek and his guys (who factor in later with Marlo), the rise of Carcetti, the kingmaking power/spite of Valchek, ...

Also, it was fun to get a glimpse of life working a boat detail, or working in records, or etc.

sure the stevedores didnt reappear after their season but they did provide important context. like why is this society like this? amongst other things there are no working class jobs anymore. so, not tangential - each season's shown a piece of the puzzle.

1 drug war
2 working man
3 city hall
4 education
5 media

i hope we get more vondas in season 5

I thought Carcetti showed up in season 3?

Season 2 is only a letdown in that S1 is basically the best 12 hours of TV ever. I don't think the show ever equalled the novel-like vision of the first season - after that it became more like a TV show (still utterly fantastic but different).

You mighta nailed it, milo. I really want to watch the series all the way through again, at which point I may very well be convinced that season 2 is more crucial than I'd previously believed.

i still like 2 more than 3

4 is still my favorite

1-2-4-3

12342534231234234235135135435153

1 is still my least favorite season by far, but maybe I should rewatch it.

I thought Carcetti showed up in season 3?

Maybe (don't remember), but I think all S2 stuff put in motion a lot of events that led to Carcetti's rise.

I thought that possibly at the end of S4 where Marlo was getting paranoid and started asking questions about the greek guy that we were going to come back to that storyline in S5. S2 was fucking brilliant - as was said upthread it was a tangent but a no other show would have followed it through so far or so well.

1 • 3 • 4 • 2

4 IS TEH NUTZ

i think s2 is great. frankie sobotka is a great tragic character.

yah sobotka is brilliant

Notice how no Wire fan has said that any season is dull or not worth bothering with. Because it's all good. I like 4 especially maybe because it's especially... gritty. Because Chris and Snoop are some of my favorite villians of all time.

I like season 2 but I think they could've done some slightly more interesting things to address Baltimore's depressed post-industrial workforce. I mean, I think the decline of Bethlehem Steel had a bigger impact on Baltimore's working class than the docks, but that'd probably be harder to work into a show about cops and criminals.

I think there's a reference to this also - iirc Spiros points across the water when talking to Frank and says "They used to make steel there, no?"

yeah, how are the docks not related to steel?

Gary, Indiana suffered the same and worse fate... they used to make steel, and the raw materials needed to do that were so heavy that they were cheaper and easier to ship over water. As the stteel industry collapsed, mostly in the 80's, the cities that steel built shrank, and eventually even shipping ordinary goods to those places became less appealing.

that's a HUGE simplification, obv. But docks and steel go together, sure they do.