Doctor Who 2008: Sontarans cometh, RTD Ood 'ave 'im etc.

The whole When You Wish Upon A Dalek thing meant Adelaide at least must have known who the Doctor is, given it made such an impression on her. In fact, she must have been old enough the previous year for Doctor Jesus/Doctor Tweety as well so it's even more surprising she doesn't know who he is. INTERESTING CHRONOLOGY FACT is that it's confirmed during the show that The Stolen Earth was 2009, not 2008 as previously stated in Rusty's internal timeline.

My biggest problem is that none of the water "not even a drop" can ever get to the Earth. So driving a robot through a giant waterfall of it, then into the TARDIS, then leaving it outdoors on Earth immediately afterwards MIGHT NOT SEEM THAT CLEVER.

All that said, this was OK I suppose, although it felt too much like a retread of previous ideas - Midnight, Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, the Ood episode from the Donna series, the Christmas one with the spider woman, 42 to name just the obvious ones.

i'd suggest all the water on the robot evaporated during its super-fast dash to the TARDIS

i liked the Dalek bit (how did it know the girl was important? who cares really). no-one knew it was the meta-crisis Doctor who destroyed the Daleks so how would Brook know who he was from that time? and the 'Last Of The Time Lords' events were wiped from history so he didn't become famous from that.

xpost - said much succintly above
This is impossibly geeky, but in terms of chronology this is how I thought things stood:
The Jesus/Doctor thing occurred during the paradox. When the paradox was undone then Martha walking the Earth spreading his name, etc. didn't happen. It only exists in the minds of those at the centre of the paradox storm when it collapsed.
As for the Stolen Earth stuff only the Doctor's companions, UNIT, Torchwood and Donna's family know that the Doctor(s) were responsible for moving the Earth back home. All people on Earth knew was the Earth moved and then they were back in orbit around the sun.
If that's the case the Doctor is still not a known public figure on Earth and therefore Adelaide doesn't have a clue who the Doctor is.

Evaporated? In the freezing cold? Plus I'm guessing you've never worked that intimately with heavy machinery to notice its propensity for storing water away inside joints or behind panels, just where you're not expecting it.

Jesus/Doctor bit agreed, but not the whole events were reverted. Only the bits after the rift gets opened get changed i.e. just what happens after the President gets killed- everything before that still takes place. Actually, that makes the writing worse because what that then means is OH NOES THE PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN SHOOTED FIND THE CULPRIT.

I was positive there was a 'stand out in the streets, three cheers for The Doctor' bit in The Stolen Earth, but I'm fucked if I'm putting myself through watching it again to find out. You may well be right.

I don't even like the fact that the general public know about Daleks and Sonatarans and shit. It destroys the notion that all this crazy stuff could really be happening under our noses. I mean, in the old series, all Earth invasions either took place in the future, or were covert operations, right?

I can confirm that I have never been intimate with heavy machinery.

stand out in the streets, three cheers for The Doctor

actually did happen in the last Christmas episode when no-one remembers/documents the Cyber King

xpost

This is the problem, for me. I knew the Jesus/Doctor bit had been erased from time but so many of the Eccleston/Tennant stories have involved OH NOES HUEG GLOBAL CATSTROPHES that I can't believe the Doctor isn't some kind of major public knowledge by now.

YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO THINK TOO HARD ABOUT THESE THINGS exhibit a) being that no one has ever mentioned the giant robot that trampelled Victorian London.

I know, I happily suspend disbelief to a point. But glaring apparent inconsistencies in the middle of a plot end up bugging me during the interminable running about sequences.

maybe Moffat feels the same as he's never done a story like that (tho may have to now). this 'end of time' stuff does indicate some sort of reset for the Doctor beyond just a normal regeneration...but not sure to what extent (other than bringing back other TimeLords somehow).

was wondering if the Master in the next two is in fact Lucy Saxon's son given that he's now a hoody with spiky blonde hair. that scene from the trailer where he briefly turns into hologram skeleton thing also v wtf.

I'll be surprised if we don't see a wholesale return of the Time Lords. In fact, we were just saying the other night how the Dalek prison from The Void and the repetition of "both sides had their secrets" doesn't mean there's a whole pile of Time Lords in a similar prison ship somewhere just waiting to be discovered.

We do know the forthcoming Moffat series is going to be 'Series 1', right?

What I really did enjoy about the ending for this special is that the Doctor was clearly expecting another "Yay! Three cheers for Doctor!" type reception, only to be greeted with horror and disgust.

xxpost

He looked like he was being exterminated tbh.

In my opinion it would be great if first go round Moffat turned in a much less operatic series, maybe even with a light-hearted ep or two in there, and some tighter writing. There's got to be a way to do that and still play to Saturday evening audiences. I wouldn't've thought most of the peeps watching now will turn away if there's no danger of the Earth being blown to bits for a few weeks.

Can give a broad outline of what's known about the Moffat series if anybody wants although obviously SPOILAZ.

Propose a separate Doctor Who spoilaz thread for the future but if that's not generally wanted I'll be ducking out now, guyz.

I think there should be an entire episode set entirely within the tardis which is trapped inside a SPACE WHALE. Yes.

TimeLord prison ship/genesis ark is a strong contender yes. Hoping for something less obvious tho I guess.

Just don't decanonise the last 5 years with some major reset nonsense.

It was a Predator ship, duh.

What I really did enjoy about the ending for this special is that the Doctor was clearly expecting another "Yay! Three cheers for Doctor!" type reception, only to be greeted with horror and disgust

otm. no-one said thank you, goodbye etc.

he must've googled adelaide's address in his mind.

Will not spoil then, but a much less operatic series seems a decent hope.

Good! Scarier and smaller-scale please.

Feel free to spoil on another thread, people don't have to click on it.

YES THEY DO

I don't wanna dictate, I know people like to share upcoming info on this thread and it's fair enough afaic. I try to be careful about reading it unless it's just after an ep's been broadcast.

Have been trying for 12 months + not to build Moffat era up too high in my head tho.

lol The boiling point of water on mars is 8 degrees. So almost definitely a thin layer of water would be boiled off in seconds on a device that ran warm.

CASE CLOSED

I think my #1 wish for the Moffatt series would be for a sense of mystery running through the series. Something to make the last episode of each series a 'must watch' for reasons other than having the biggest explosions.

Evaporated? In the freezing cold? Plus I'm guessing you've never worked that intimately with heavy machinery to notice its propensity for storing water away inside joints or behind panels, just where you're not expecting it.

thinner atmosphere on mars, plus gusts of fire from the robot to burn it off. (grasping at straws here)

Was this episode supposed to be shown this saturday,or sumt? Was there any other reason for events to have taken place on the 21st?

The original design of the "comedy robot" Gadget was strangely familiar:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XZS_Rs-9Wt4/SwL5k5enQ5I/AAAAAAAAA8U/Vvbyy6f0u2g/s400/gadget-Wall.E.bmp

OK, now I've had a couple of pints, and given my 'not particularly scientific or thought out argument' with the robot and water was discarded so quickly, some other faults:

How do all the fires burn in the Martian atmosphere?

Where does all the water come from with the aliums? The pat answer the Doctor seems to give is that it's because 'humans are 90% water' and that's why their mouths crack (implying it's consuming their water). So in a bloke like Andy you might generate at most 14 stone of water? That's what, about 60 litres? Also please to remember from school chemistry that generating water from the oxygen in the air generally involves an explosion, and that the aliums are neither made of hydrogen nor is the air in the space station.

The Doctor hears the intercom outside before he turns back, and is able to control the robot outside. Given the base is set up for an Earth-like atmosphere, how are either of these possible within the laws of radio physics?

All the cast are laughing at the bloke at the beginning putting up a sign which says 'No Trespassers'. A second later, the Doctor gets held up at gunpoint for trespassing by a robot, which it later turns out is controlled by a bloke from the base. Why would the robot be sent out looking for anything outside in the first place if trespassers are that unlikely?

More to the point, why do the base have guns at all?

If it's possible to hermetically seal doors on the base, why isn't the quarantine one of them? (Although see previous point, why would you want a quarantine if you were the only thing there as presumably you'd believe there was no chance of infection from anything?)

When the carrots get lifted out they are virtually clean, which at least in part implies hydroponics. So why are they putting compost on the plant beds?

It's fairly heavily implied that the dalek Adelaide sees as a child doesn't shoot her because it knows she has to die in the future - the whole 'fixed point' thing. So... the only way it can know she still needs to be alive after DAvros wipes out reality is if Davros fails to wipe out reality. Presumably he's running off to tell his mates not to bother with this whole invasion lark as it's a waste of time?

The way the aliums get in is because one filter fails out of seven. I'd like to think if my, say, ARSENIC FILTER failed on my water supply I'd take it more seriously than the bloke who goes lol filter is shagged.

Noting the previous point that humans are 90% water according to the script, how much higher percentage can you conceivably get to support sentience? Is this some kind of homeopathy bollocks?

Most of those Qs I have no answer for, but here are a couple...

How do all the fires burn in the Martian atmosphere?
* I'm guessing they're burning with the venting oxygen as the whole place cracks open, etc. Plus TONNES of artisitic license because fire looks cool.

Where does all the water come from with the aliums? The pat answer the Doctor seems to give is that it's because 'humans are 90% water' and that's why their mouths crack (implying it's consuming their water). So in a bloke like Andy you might generate at most 14 stone of water? That's what, about 60 litres? Also please to remember from school chemistry that generating water from the oxygen in the air generally involves an explosion, and that the aliums are neither made of hydrogen nor is the air in the space station.
* The Doctor says something about the infected bodies producing water via fusion--presumably from the atmosphere, though not sure how much hydrogen there'd be--, and the blackness of the mouths being heat burns from the process.

What pissed me off: Aliens who take over the bodies of humans used to be a way of avoiding costly special effects. As the cost of CGI effects is now pretty minimal, bodysnatching aliens are now deployed as a way of avoiding the effort of developing backstory: basic motivation, no characterisation, no history whatsoever. The inexplicable nature of the zombies in NOTLD may have been scary and new once - it's starting to look lazy now.

(OK, so I wanted battalions of CGI Ice Warriors!)

otm. no-one said thank you, goodbye etc.

lol at RTD's "I am the Doctor/Tennant/Jesus" complex.

I SAVED TELEVISON'S DOCTOR WHO. LOOK AT WHAT I DID FOR YOU. WHAT DO I GET? NO THANKS, NOTHING. TOUGH, LET'S DO IT MY WAY. HOW'D YOU FANCY ANOTHER BILLIE GUEST APPEARANCE BEFORE I REGENERATE INTO MOFFAT?

All said in a shouty shouty zany 'n' wacky voice, natch.

Mars' atmosphere is mainly carbon dioxide iirc, which scuppers both of them. (except for the 'it looks cool', which is fine for me as long as you don't rely on science to disprove other obvious plot holes such as ^^^^^^)

xpost

No, I agree, I'm just stretching to make excuses, really. I meant the atmosphere from the base, but now that I think about it, they were producing water while outside on the roof. Hmmm.

Basically, as long as the pseudoscience doesn't again reach the depths of DNA being conducted via electricity, I breathe a sigh of relief.

I actually have a coherent plot-related excuse for the water and the robot - the Doctor says at one point that the Flood (actually, that's one thing - when does he ever find out the name?) has chosen not to infect the birds and insects, so maybe it just 'chooses' not to have the water that soaks the robot be infected?

dogs can't play poker - CASE CLOSED

More to the point, why do the base have guns at all?

You'd think that what with the earth being attacked by aliens at a frequency of roughly once a month, it might have been considered a sensible precaution?

- holy shit Lindsay Duncan is terrific. more than a match for the Doctor. what seriousness of purpose. what sensitivity and deliberation. no wasted motion.

- Aliens - containment in the med clinic; the baddies suddenly realized to be ABOVE the crew; their intention to stow away aboard a ship to earth and destroy the world; "we'll nuke it from orbit"

- not sure why her grand-daughter would only gain sufficient inspiration to voyage to the stars on the condition that she dies. having Lindsay Duncan dead? of an apparently self-inflicted raygun blast? is that the only key to unlock that particular future? what's our investment in the grand daughter's stardom (!) anyway? if not her, it would be somebody else who piloted that first ship to Alpha Centauri or wherever. so who cares? isn't the main thing that the Martian base did get blown up, so that the water-things couldn't terrimify our freedomdz?

- Galactopedia actually says (yes i uh paused it o_O) "unexplicable circumstances" .. and of the reaction in the zombie monsters that it's "metaphysical"

- children, generations

- nice Pompeii reference, made me think of Malcolm from the Thick of It

- for a world that's gone through the wringer Lindsay Duncan alludes to - an oil catastrophe or whatever - that part of London looks pretty nice.

The pompeii reference unimaginatively made me think of the pompeii episode of Dr. Who.

^ pompeii Dr Who episode starred Peter Capaldi, who played Malcolm in The Thick of It.

This ep was better than Zoe Slater on a double decker bus, but not exactly OH WOW WHAT A SPECIAL SPECIAL! I do love Lindsay Duncan. Will read the rest of the thread now, but basically expect a whole lot of "lol Dalek fuck off" comment, and a smattering of "yes yes, Doctor is Jesus we get it already".

Anyone got an idea what time the Christmas episode clip is going to be shown at on Children In Need tonight?

It'll be all over the net by tomorrow whatever.

I suppose this is true, but I would still like to know roughly what time it's going to be on so I can record it for myself without having to wade through hours of CiN

Pretty sure it's not set yet, you'd be surprised how last-minute CiN is

guardian guide does split things up into 3 large chunks (little boots is on after 1am) but i imagine it's pretty fluid on the night.

oh, this is even more granular: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ny3gy

8.00pm-8.30pm

The stars of Hollyoaks rock TV Centre with their tribute to Queen, there is an exclusive sneak-peek of the Doctor Who Christmas special, and music from American superstar Taylor Swift.

Ha well - there you go!

Was going to post a couple of flabbergasted remarks re the CIN thing, but can't phrase them without spoilering. A pretty huge and unlikely development thrown away for a dumb joke, is what I'm talking about.