Katrina's POLITICAL aftermath (keep the political discussions HERE)

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All I did was parrot the inital reports (which basically means every report until that one) that it had no effect, Gabb. There's probably a billion links to those upthread.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Saturday, 10 September 2005 02:49 (twenty years ago)

(and even though I'm sure you're not wondering, I've been absent from these threads because right now, I have no idea what the hell is going on with the rescue/recovery/relief effort, and frankly, it doesn't appear anyone else in the federal or state government does either. there's gonna be a long, long investigation into all of this. matter of fact, I'm surprised more people aren't doing what seem to be obvious things, like my idea of searching LexisNexus for anything pertaining to levee funding in congressional hearings. I'm sure if they were brought up, you can probably find a big name republican referring to them as pork barrel that everyone could start demanding a resignation for.)

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Saturday, 10 September 2005 02:57 (twenty years ago)

mos def's katrina song

http://presstheissue.org/music/MosDef-Dollar_Day_for_New_Oreleans...Katrina_Klap.mp3

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 10 September 2005 03:21 (twenty years ago)

Did anyone see Dr. John singing "Walking to New Orleans" at the end of the Shelter from the Storm telethon? The expression on his face, the tears in his eyes... Oh man... I completely lost it.

It was heartening, though, a couple performances earlier, to see Kanye West still at it. When he interjected that little rap about the people getting left at the Superdome into "Jesus Walks," I said YEAH! Right fuckin' on, Kanye!

It's wonderful to see him continuing to speak out against the crimes perpetrated on the people of Louisiana and Mississippi by the Bush Admin. (And on this awesome thread! You guys have been great with all the info, links and reportage. Thank you!) Those heartless motherfuckers need to pay. I don't think I've ever been so heartbroken or angry in my entire life.

Little Mama Roux, Saturday, 10 September 2005 04:21 (twenty years ago)

there's gonna be a long, long investigation into all of this.

depends. if the current ruling party has it their way, the "what we did right" parts will come out around mardi gras, and the "what we did wrong" parts will coming out in december 2006, if ever.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Saturday, 10 September 2005 08:34 (twenty years ago)

The middle 20% of the American electorate--those that are actually in play-- are pragmatists. They've demonstrated a willingness to tolerate heartlessness or incompetence, but not both at the same time. If the congressional elections were in two months and not 14, the Democrats would retake the House. But will Katrina be an election issue next year? I'll bet you it won't be.

M. V. (M.V.), Saturday, 10 September 2005 10:00 (twenty years ago)

ah, but who knows what other disasters await us?

CQD CQD SOS SOS CQD DE MGY MGY (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 10 September 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

just when you think that you can't be made even more sick by certain right-wingers ... john stossel defends price gouging ... and gets torn a new asshole by a blogger

-- Eisbär (llamasfu...), September 10th, 2005. (tracklink)

Ha, that response is fucking awesome. My jaw always drops when I hear the argument that "the person who needs it more will pay more for it." You might as well say "Let the customers fight for it. The person who values it more will fight harder."

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 10 September 2005 12:16 (twenty years ago)

Stossel is also strawmanning. Everyone recognizes that prices have to go up in connection with supply and demand, we just don't want gas companies taking advantage of the public's fear and misinformation.

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 10 September 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)

A couple of other things that have unhinged my jaw lately:

1) Karen Hughes's and others' attempts to shift the blame to the looters. Are there a small minority of people who are actually doing really heinous shit like robbing the crippled, committing rape, etc.? Yes, obviously. Are they responsible for their actions? Fucking goes without saying. But whose fault is it that there's been no order of any kind in the city? Who permitted this to happen? Does a real leader hold a press conference and say "Sorry, I know we have a crime problem, but it's all these criminals that are causing it, not me!"

2) The blame rolling off Bush like mercury and the "blame game" canard -- as though we've forgotten who makes appointments in this government. It's not like Bush didn't know before that Brown was a failed horse lawyer, a man for whom the only disaster he had ever had to deal with was his own career.

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 10 September 2005 12:48 (twenty years ago)

from the Washington Post:

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee yesterday sent links to a Houston Chronicle blogger who had watched House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (Tex.) tour the Astrodome, where children evacuated from New Orleans were playing. The blog reported that DeLay "likened their stay to being at camp and asked, 'Now, tell me the truth, boys, is this kind of fun?' " The blogger said the youngsters "nodded yes, but looked perplexed."

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 10 September 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

HAHAHAHAHA

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 10 September 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

James Wolcott on the numbers of the dead and what happens to those who justify every action by the dead on 9/11 when the Katrina victims pass "the magical 3000 mark:"

...But now that the death toll from Katrina is threatening the inviolable aura of "3000 dead," rightwingers are playing their own form of hopscotch to put things in "proper perspective." They recognize they're in danger of losing a mass grave marker on the high moral ground.

Today, James S. Robbins pulled a Mailer on NRO, using not automobile accidents but a household item found in every medicine cabinet as his point of comparison...

in reference to Norman Mailer noting that far more people die in auto accidents every year than on 9/11, and then getting overwhelmed in attacks for that observation.

kingfish, Saturday, 10 September 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)

and what happens when a conservative argues over another conservatives call for Brown's head:

...In any event, whatever the wisdom of Brown’s appointment in hindsight, firing him now would be an admission that FEMA performed poorly in the current crisis--an assertion that is constantly repeated, but for which I have seen, at this point, little hard evidence. There will be time enough for sorting out, in a rational environment, the pros and cons of FEMA’s efforts; firing Brown now would accomplish nothing but to uselessly fan the flames of hysteria.

kingfish, Saturday, 10 September 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

you all are forgetting something: people looted on 9/11, too.

hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 10 September 2005 18:00 (twenty years ago)

And we must never forget 9/11

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 10 September 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

>depends. if the current ruling party has it their way, the "what we did right" parts will come out around mardi gras, and the "what we did wrong" parts will coming out in december 2006, if ever.<

Basically, think 9/11 Commission. It took a ridiculous amount of time for that, and this is an ongoing disaster. Looking at everything retrospectively under a microscope won't be able to be done for perhaps 6 months to a year with any accuracy. As it is, its pretty much the death knell for anyone choosing to run under the Republican banner in '08 (and probably '06), unless they decide to break rank.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Sunday, 11 September 2005 03:00 (twenty years ago)

Ha, for a second there I thought I killed the thread.

Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 11 September 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)

you might call it the nuclear option

gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 11 September 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

I'm sure K. Rove is already way ahead of this article.

But wouldn't it be weird of New Orleans came under a Republican mayor?

Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 11 September 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

Talking of Rove, the whole crisis from bush flyover to Cheney getting heckled has show a complete breakdown in Rove's new management skills.

Ed (dali), Sunday, 11 September 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

erm, should be news management skills

Ed (dali), Sunday, 11 September 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

I think it's more a matter of the natural limits of news management.

Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 11 September 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

CNN is reporting that Bush's approval rating is the lowest it's ever been, 39%.

lyra (lyra), Sunday, 11 September 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

That's more than what I'd have expected.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 11 September 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

A couple of pre-hurricane polls had it dip below the 40% floor, too. Not sure how well that was reported.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Sunday, 11 September 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Really? I missed those. I feel a certain relief in seeing it drop below 40%.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Sunday, 11 September 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

more fun with Rush:

"The Left Celebrates Katrina Destruction,
Terror Attack They've Been Waiting For"

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Sunday, 11 September 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

I was in deep deep depression for about a week due to the hurricane and the response. But Rush Limbaugh will say anything - it's a proven fact.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 12 September 2005 01:30 (twenty years ago)

Using FEMA's fuck-up as an excuse to privatize even more public functions.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 12 September 2005 05:18 (twenty years ago)

this comment someone left is OTM (but not very well proofread):

Thirdly, the private sector has responded beautifully because it's great PR to do so. There's an easy conflation in everything I've read from the right on this topic between private charity and private industry acting like charity (or being prevented from doing so by red tape). But the Red Cross is designed to complement the public response in this kind of situation. It makes no difference from their end who they're complementing -- Haliburtan of the FEMA. WalMart and the charter bus companies are doing it either out of charity or out of the desire for PR or both. But once you hire somebody who's job is to do disaster relief, the PR benefit of "going the extra mile" disappears completely. You get no kudos for just doing your job.

s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 September 2005 05:58 (twenty years ago)

Except the fallacy in that is that if the feds had actually responded well here, there was massive PR benefit to be had. I mean, looking like heroes a week before the 9/11 anniversary? That must be what has Rove bashing his head into a wall. They tried to glom onto a 9/11-Katrina connection anyway, but even they must have known it looked a little desperate. I think Rove and Bush et al would have liked for the federal government to function well in this situation, not for the actual benefits and assistance it would have provided to the people of the Gulf Coast but for the political boost. It was a really good time for them to get a distraction (from Iraq, Social Security, the Supreme Court, etc.) and demonstrate their Bold Leadership.

But the problem for these guys is, they actually don't know how to make the federal government function well. It's not part of their portfolio. That's not what they do. It's like having a pit crew that has no actual idea how a racecar works, they just know how to make it shiny for the cameras and hope it wins a race or two.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 12 September 2005 06:09 (twenty years ago)

I find this highly believable. For an EPA administrator to speak out under his own name, under this administration, things have to be pretty bad.

Cover-up: toxic waters 'will make New Orleans unsafe for a decade'
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Correspondent
Published: 11 September 2005

Toxic chemicals in the New Orleans flood waters will make the city unsafe for full human habitation for a decade, a US government official has told The Independent on Sunday. And, he added, the Bush administration is covering up the danger.

In an exclusive interview, Hugh Kaufman, an expert on toxic waste and responses to environmental disasters at the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), said the way the polluted water was being pumped out was increasing the danger to health.

The pollution was far worse than had been admitted, he said, because his agency was failing to take enough samples and was refusing to make public the results of those it had analysed. "Inept political hacks" running the clean-up will imperil the health of low-income migrant workers by getting them to do the work.

His intervention came as President Bush's approval ratings fell below 40 per cent for the first time. Yesterday, Britain's Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, turned the screw by criticising the US President's opposition to the Kyoto protocol on global warming. He compared New Orleans to island nations such as the Maldives, which are threatened by rising sea levels. Other US sources spelt out the extent of the danger from one of America's most polluted industrial areas, known locally as "Cancer Alley". The 66 chemical plants, refineries and petroleum storage depots churn out 600m lb of toxic waste each year. Other dangerous substances are in site storage tanks or at the port of New Orleans. No one knows how much pollution has escaped through damaged plants and leaking pipes into the "toxic gumbo" now drowning the city. Mr Kaufman says no one is trying to find out.

Few people are better qualified to judge the extent of the problem. Mr Kaufman, who has been with the EPA since it was founded 35 years ago, helped to set up its hazardous waste programme. After serving as chief investigator to the EPA's ombudsman, he is now senior policy analyst in its Office of Solid Wastes and Emergency Response. He said the clean-up needed to be "the most massive public works exercise ever done", adding: "It will take 10 years to get everything up and running and safe."

Mr Kaufman claimed the Bush administration was playing down the need for a clean-up: the EPA has not been included in the core White House group tackling the crisis. "Its budget has been cut and inept political hacks have been put in key positions," Mr Kaufman said. "All the money for emergency response has gone to buy guns and cowboys - which don't do anything when a hurricane hits. We were less prepared for this than we would have been on 10 September 2001."

He said the water being pumped out of the city was not being tested for pollution and would damage Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi river, and endanger people using it downstream.

Toxic chemicals in the New Orleans flood waters will make the city unsafe for full human habitation for a decade, a US government official has told The Independent on Sunday. And, he added, the Bush administration is covering up the danger.

In an exclusive interview, Hugh Kaufman, an expert on toxic waste and responses to environmental disasters at the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), said the way the polluted water was being pumped out was increasing the danger to health.

The pollution was far worse than had been admitted, he said, because his agency was failing to take enough samples and was refusing to make public the results of those it had analysed. "Inept political hacks" running the clean-up will imperil the health of low-income migrant workers by getting them to do the work.

His intervention came as President Bush's approval ratings fell below 40 per cent for the first time. Yesterday, Britain's Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, turned the screw by criticising the US President's opposition to the Kyoto protocol on global warming. He compared New Orleans to island nations such as the Maldives, which are threatened by rising sea levels. Other US sources spelt out the extent of the danger from one of America's most polluted industrial areas, known locally as "Cancer Alley". The 66 chemical plants, refineries and petroleum storage depots churn out 600m lb of toxic waste each year. Other dangerous substances are in site storage tanks or at the port of New Orleans. No one knows how much pollution has escaped through damaged plants and leaking pipes into the "toxic gumbo" now drowning the city. Mr Kaufman says no one is trying to find out.

Few people are better qualified to judge the extent of the problem. Mr Kaufman, who has been with the EPA since it was founded 35 years ago, helped to set up its hazardous waste programme. After serving as chief investigator to the EPA's ombudsman, he is now senior policy analyst in its Office of Solid Wastes and Emergency Response. He said the clean-up needed to be "the most massive public works exercise ever done", adding: "It will take 10 years to get everything up and running and safe."

Mr Kaufman claimed the Bush administration was playing down the need for a clean-up: the EPA has not been included in the core White House group tackling the crisis. "Its budget has been cut and inept political hacks have been put in key positions," Mr Kaufman said. "All the money for emergency response has gone to buy guns and cowboys - which don't do anything when a hurricane hits. We were less prepared for this than we would have been on 10 September 2001."

He said the water being pumped out of the city was not being tested for pollution and would damage Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi river, and endanger people using it downstream.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article311818.ece

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 12 September 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

yeah, they mentioned this on the radio today. something about stopping the sampling of the water and not letting the EPA release the results of the samples.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 12 September 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

If nothing else, this administration is very thorough in its own peculiar way.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 12 September 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

Krugman mentioned that Kaufman interview in his column about Bush cronyism today. He noted that Kaufman will most likely not be with the EPA much longer.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 12 September 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

'...dewatering...', The 43rd President of the United States of America, George Walker Bush.

Ed (dali), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:23 (twenty years ago)

Black people are scary:

“If I’m Karl, do I want the visual of black people hollering at the president as if we’re living in Rwanda?” said the supporter, who spoke only anonymously because he did not want to antagonize Mr. Rove.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

I REFUSE to believe this picture choice for the front of the BBC news site is not intentional:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40792000/jpg/_40792812_bushducks-afp203i.jpg

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

"My neck snapped, help!"

"Sorry, there's something interesting over there..."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

Time magazine has a long story up on Bush's reaction so far to Katrina. Free at the moment, but probably paid-access in a week or so:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1103581,00.html
President Bush was seated in the White House Situation Room, watching military and disaster officials beaming in from the Gulf Coast on the giant screen of his secure video- teleconferencing system. It had been nearly a week since Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans, ripping gashes in the Superdome and swamping homes up to their eaves. Bush, more fidgety than usual, was hearing a jumble of conflicting reports about the number of refugees in the Convention Center and the whereabouts of two trucks and trailers loaded with water and food. Furious, he interrupted and glared at the camera transmitting his image back to Mississippi. "I know y'all are trying as hard as you can, but it ain't cuttin' it," the Commander in Chief barked. "I wanna know why. We gotta do better."

This was not so much a moment of executive command as one that betrayed Bush's growing sense that his presidency was taking a beating too. A TIME poll conducted last week shows how badly it has been wounded: his overall approval rating has dropped to 42%, his lowest mark since taking office. And while 36% of respondents said they were satisfied with his explanation of why the government was not able to provide relief to hurricane victims sooner, 57% said they were dissatisfied--an ominous result for a politician who banks on his image as a straight shooter.

Longtime Bush watchers say they are not shocked that he missed his moment--one of his most trusted confidants calls him "a better third- and fourth-quarter player," who focuses and delivers when he sees the stakes. What surprised them was that he still appeared to be stutter-stepping in the second week of the crisis, struggling to make up for past lapses instead of taking control with a grand gesture. Just as Katrina exposed the lurking problems of race and poverty, it also revealed the limitations of Bush's rigid, top-down approach to the presidency. "The extremely highly centralized control of the government--the engine of Bush's success--failed him this time," a key adviser said.

lyra (lyra), Monday, 12 September 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

And from further in the article, Bush (Rove's?) 3 step plan to get everyone to forget how badly they bungled this:
By late last week, Administration aides were describing a three-part comeback plan. The first: Spend freely, and worry about the tab and the consequences later. "Nothing can salve the wounds like money," said an official who helped develop the strategy. "You'll see a much more aggressively engaged President, traveling to the Gulf Coast a lot and sending a lot of people down there."

The second tactic could be summed up as, Don't look back. The White House has sent delegates to meetings in Washington of outside Republican groups who have plans to blame the Democrats and state and local officials. In the meantime, it has no plans to push for a full-scale inquiry like the 9/11 commission, which Bush bitterly opposed until the pressure from Congress and surviving families made resistance futile. Congressional Democrats have said they are unwilling to settle for anything less than an outside panel, but White House officials said they do not intend to give in, and will portray Democrats as politicking if they do not accept a bipartisan panel proposed by Republican congressional leaders. Ken Mehlman, the party's chairman and Bush's campaign manager last year, told TIME that viewers at home will think it's "kind of ghoulish, the extent to which you've got political leaders saying not 'Let's help the people in need' but making snide comments about vacations."

The third move: Develop a new set of goals to announce after Katrina fades. Advisers are proceeding with plans to gin up base-conservative voters for next year's congressional midterm elections with a platform that probably will be focused around tax reform. Because Bush will need a dynamic salesman to make sure that initiative goes better than his Social Security proposal, advisers tell TIME there is once again talk of replacing Treasury Secretary John Snow. There are no plans to delay tax cuts to pay for the New Orleans reconstruction or the Iraq war, and Bush is likely to follow through on his vow to veto anticipated congressional approval of increased federal funding for embryonic-stem-cell research.

lyra (lyra), Monday, 12 September 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

we're fucked.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 12 September 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/45060#1043617

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 12 September 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

Eisbar, its not as bad as you imagine. Right now, the President is about as unpopular as he's ever been, far more so even than in the runup to the election. While he may not be seeking a second term, the republicans in the Senate and House will be. And if they start to see their poll numbers decrease from following the president in lock step (and one would imagine they will), the tenuous grasp the Republican Party has on the Congress could disappear.

(one worry I have though is that many of the seats up in 2006 are with safe candidates or in safe places, like Montana, or with Richard Luger. R. Michael DeWine and Rick Santorum will be especially picked on. plus Frist is retiring, which might help)

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Monday, 12 September 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

I'm hoping Santorum's nutty comment about liberals being at fault for the Catholic Church's child molestation scandals will become a campaign issue. Even Rush Limbaugh had a hard time rationalizing that one.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 04:56 (twenty years ago)

'...dewatering...', The 43rd President of the United States of America, George Walker Bush.

he didn't invent that. some of the rescue guys have been using it too. it's funny to think of "dewatering" as some kind of actual scientific term.

s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 05:01 (twenty years ago)

xpost

Santorum is toast, but it'll take more than that pickup for the Democrats to take the Senate next year.

M. V. (M.V.), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 05:03 (twenty years ago)

having grown up in PA, i can't explain Santorum in the first place. so i wouldn't be so quick to write him off.

frankly, i am pretty fucking despondent about the general state of things. sorry.

mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 05:14 (twenty years ago)

'...dewatering...'

Dewatergate!

Oh man, the "tax reform" fight is going to be a riot. If you can watch it from a spaceship or something. The thing is, they probably won't make any more headway on it than they have with "Social Security reform," but the whole shebang might be enough to keep the Dems on the defensive and negate any hopes for congressional gains in '06, which is all Karl's really aiming for. I think that's what Democrats maybe haven't fully grasped about these guys, is that it's all about survival from one election to the next, staying in charge. It doesn't matter if they actually get any laws passed or anything, it's enough for them to just control the levers of money and influence, because as long as they can do that, their friends can get paid. Krugman and a few others have written about this, but what we're really dealing with here is just straight machine politics, and the machine mostly exists to keep the machine running. Assorted ideologies are welcome to come along, for as long as they juice the engine, but they're really just means to an end, and the end is to just keep going.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 05:14 (twenty years ago)


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