White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

To be unambiguous, here is my stance (and I think I also said this upthread in the original discussion):

If you have darkened your skin to look like a realistic portrayal of someone of another ethnicity, I do not have a problem with that.

If you have darkened your skin to look like this:

http://www.subvulture.com/archive/white_xmas_al_jolson.jpg

I have a MASSIVE problem with that. THIS is blackface. THIS is what I find offensive.

I understand why people are super-sensitive about any situation where people's skin is darkened because of the whole history of minstrel shows but I really do believe that equating what the cheerleader did, particularly since SHE LOOKED LIKE LIL WAYNE (with tits, lol) with what Al Jolson did is beyond sketchy, because what does making that equivalency say about how you're viewing Lil Wayne?

I mean, has anyone actually SEEN the pictures of the Michael Jackson group in Australia that Harry Connick Jr objected to? They looked like this:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/images/hey_hey_blackface_400.jpg

People are taking shit like THAT and equating it with what Tyra Banks did on America's Next Top Model with pasty Irish-looking model Nicole, who normally looks like this:

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20090812/300.nicole.antm.cycle13.081209.jpg

... but had a photoshoot where she was styled to look like this:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/10/31/alg_next_top_model.jpg

In what universe is the above picture a direct equivalent to this:

http://www.subvulture.com/archive/white_xmas_al_jolson.jpg
http://www.subvulture.com/archive/white_xmas_al_jolson.jpg
http://www.subvulture.com/archive/white_xmas_al_jolson.jpg
http://www.subvulture.com/archive/white_xmas_al_jolson.jpg
http://www.subvulture.com/archive/white_xmas_al_jolson.jpg

I mean seriously, COME THE FUCK ON.

So, in summation:

Looks like a recognizable human being = ok with me
Looks like Al Jolson = fuck you for an eternity you fucking racist cumbubble

um guys.. somebody wore a KKK outfit in our office costume contest thing on friday!

perhaps it should be noted that the dude is part black but it still managed to be a pretty O_o situation.

ha of course that's going to be a o_O situation, that is a wholly inappropriate thing to do at work and a super risky move

So, in summation:

Looks like a recognizable human being = ok with me
― (oh PORRIDGE) (HI DERE), Monday, 2 November 2009 15:16 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

What if its supposed to look like a recognisable human being, but I have no idea who that person looks like (lil wayne) or it looks nothing like that person (ronaldinho bottleopener)?

yeah, it didn't go over too well. he's a goofy guy and it just didn’t even seem like he thought it would be a big deal. xp

What if its supposed to look like a recognisable human being, but I have no idea who that person looks like

Does it still look like a human being or does it look like a blackface golliwog? Why is this difficult to understand?

or it looks nothing like that person (ronaldinho bottleopener)

That had its own entirely different set of poor racial connotations that have nothing to do with blackfae, so why are you bringing it up here?

lol "blackfae", someone must be done about all of these offensive pictures of elves and fairies in Jolson makeup

Do not talk to me about offensive pictures of fairies, photos of me have been shopped into some gay-ass fairyland bullshit and are FOR SALE ONLINE. There is no blackface involved, but that's about the only thing missing.

links please

http://www.camangepasdepain.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/peter_pan_cmpdp.jpg

that was an awesome xpost

oh wau

so, al jolson is not an acceptable halloween costume then...

"Tasteless, stupid, unfunny, lamentable and idiotic. Anyone beat up for same deserves it."

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/LimitedLiabilityGirl/YouAreKiddingMe.jpg

Come to think of it, someone needs to get to work animating that, STAT.

okay that is awful

omg laurel that's amazing

They're all really really terrible. And yet somehow for sale? Srsly considering contacting the "artist" about taking them down.

omg

That is... omg

I would embrace it and find out if you can get that shit on velvet ASAP tbh.

I mean it's kind of like "CAFEPRESS/ZAZZLE, HERE I COME" isn't it

I'm afraid to ask what "Zazzle" is.

Robin Goodfellow and the Gay-Face Realm

sheesh

if you dont know what lil wayne looks like you proab;ly didt do anything fun on halloween anyway - no harm no foul

http://www.zazzle.com/cr/design/pt-shirt?pd=235969346367166600&get_started_dialog=false&side_front=horz&style=infant_tshirt&color=white&size=18mo&context=lindsey&view=front

also screaming lolz at "Wise Women of the Woods"

So this Robin Goodfellow obtained some photgraphs of you and used it in his work? He's sort of a Shepard Faerie.

still lolling btw

I'm going to shepherd him right off a magical cliff. Is that legal? Does appearing in public open you up to having your image used for commercial purposes?

I think it depends on whether you signed any waivers on claims to your image as part of appearing at the event and whether this guy was taking pictures in an official capacity for the event at it.

Def didn't approve anything or sign anything. We got paid for our appearance but there was nothing about photographs, and that guy is making $$ off the pics for himself, not for the organization or the event.

So you can force him to take them down and also assert a legal right to a percentage of what he's made so far off of them if I understand copyright law correctly.

That'll be 25% of ZERO, then, eh?

(actually the public appearance part may negate your ability to extort money out of him; I'm really not sure how that all works out because I'm not a lawyer)

not sure how it applies to 'art' lol but i'm pretty sure i can go take your picture anytime i want and sell it to a newspaper and i don't owe you shit

like if you are at a public event or something

hey so this was my first Halloween in NYC where I did not see anyone dressed in blackface

I saw like a dozen people dressed as T-Pain but all them turned out to be actually black

I walked behind five guys with giant afros and turned around when I passed them, expecting bad news, but they just had on aviator sunglasses and fake mustaches and were being 70s

hooray for NYC downtown Halloween revelers 09 for not doing blackface in my vicinity and also for significantly lowering the percentage of store-bought costumes from the back room of Ricky's that spend the rest of the year being intended for sex games

(btw I'm generally with Dan about recognizable-person vs. blackface but that Wayne cheerleader did look a lot like the kind of thing where if you were in a room with it it would get bad, especially depending on whether/how she acted out the costume)

GROAN @ nickn

depending on whether/how she acted out the costume)

this is the thing, yeah.

yeah well that kind of gets into my thing of "Lil Wayne does not behave in a manner that anyone should actually emulate" thing, "60 Minutes" interviews aside

actually maybe the main aspect that makes me skeptical is that it would be really easy to be Lil Wayne without doing anything about skin color -- I mean it's Lil Wayne, there are like 50 billion identifying characteristics about the dude's head that supersede "he is black" ... it's not like if you dressed up as a white Lil Wayne people would be all "wait, who are you supposed to be, the guy from Jesus Jones?" that's possibly the bit that makes me wonder.

yeah I kind of totally disagree with that, actually; you would get as many guesses for "thugged-out Parappa" as you would Lil Wayne if you remove skin color from the equation

Laurel, this is kinda interesting, although I suspect most of it is bullshit: http://journal.davidbyrne.com/2006/05/4506_you_belong.html

Parappa & Jesus Jones...

well that's next year's costume sorted: whiteface parappa

actually I think the best easy costume I saw this year was a woman of medium skin tone who'd just put on big shorts and painted Mike Tyson's face tattoo around her eye

I would vote for that costume too because based on your description, she was topless

also I GISed Weezy to get a picture of him to contrast with Parappa and found the one of him kissing someone who looks like Cee-Lo on the lips

Yeah, I was chatting to a bunch of people who are going to a thing I'm djing in a couple of weeks, which is 80s fancy dress. One of them was going as michael jackson (unimaginative, yes) and was planning on wearing blackface 'because it's funnier'. Now, leaving aside the sense that of all people jackson requires no blackface, I told him if he did I wouldn't let him in. It was, of course, pointed out that as a dj I couldn't stop people coming in blackface. But I'll find some way of punishing them.

And I think the point isn't Jolson vs Lil Wayne, but that people feel they can't dress up as a black celebrity without without painting their face. They still insist that the defining characteristic of the person is their blackness, not their talent etc.

To be fair, to dress up like someone generally involves treating their appearance as their defining characteristic, rather than acquiring the same talents as them.