Katrina's POLITICAL aftermath (keep the political discussions HERE)

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"like my late grandpa, who took us out shooting the day after xmas one year."

that sounds awesome.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

i have some good pictures, somewhere, of him and myself (i'm taking aim)

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Ambrose.. I know this thread is a long read, but this should give you some idea of why there has been relatively little effort in recovery efforts in Louisiana...

The full answer to your question, to be blunt, is: we don't fucking know! I'm sure the government themselves (or most of it) don't know why things are just not panning out the way they are expected to pan out, as far as recovery efforts. This is a first-time thing for the U.S. in many ways.

Yes, it's incredibly awful and embarrassing... and cruel.

donut gon' nut (donut), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Cafferty makes the point that Congress reconvened faster for the Schiavo affair than for this. Very cynical!

I'm not sure where this comes from but...

"CNN just reporting that Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (of California which as a reminder is not a Gulf State) has been leading the charge to get Congress back to Washington, DC for an emergency session. Meanwhile, House Speaker Dennis Hastert has resisted, responding that Congress is already scheduled to reconvene next Tuesday and many Congressmen have important work (fund-raising of their own, not for victims) in their districts that can not be dropped on a moment's notice. Bear in mind that Hastert DID bring the House back from vacation for a special session on a Sunday night to address Terri Schiavo's feeding-tube issue."

walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

with this gov't we get what we paid for (both in votes and in taxes)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

as dailykos puts it, unbelievable

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

I really feel in shock about the way this disaster is unfolding and how badly the govt appears to be handling it. I don't just mean in a political, rhetorical, bush-hating sense, I mean I'm genuinely shocked as an American citizen who always thought of my government, whether under Democrats or Republicans, as being good at handling these sorts of things. It kind of erodes my sense of security, though living in the NYC area I imagine at least the local governments will handle things better.

xpost Jesus. What a fucking douche Hastert is.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

well all our security resources that would be diverted to this are, of course, overseas at the moment. but I'm sure you were aware of that... the federal gov't effectively has no money and no manpower at the moment. and, as others have pointed out, this is entirely by design, the logical outgrowth of rabid right-wing "small gov't" balonium.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

jesus....pat robertson...that dailykos thing is fucking sickening.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

*vomit*

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

also, from daily kos -- apparently, neither hell nor high water will divert the senate GOP from its duly appointed rounds: permanently repealing the federal estate tax and browbeating possibly reluctant GOP senators into supporting such a repeal.

words fail me.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

Grimly OTM upthread. We had a story tonight about how FEMA warned four years ago about three disasters it didn't think it could handle -- a San Fran Earthquake, another hit on NYC, and the flooding in New Orleans. Funding was cut for the third.

What really concerns me is that there's no real angle for Bush here -- he has nothing really to gain by inaction. In fact, with the Gulf's oil production, he has a lot to lose. You'd think that even for the oil they'd move into gear. The fact that they didn't seems to indicate that they're both hamstrung by earlier poor decisions (FEMA funding), and by sheer incompetence.

Someone earlier pointed out that Bush said "no-one could forsee the levees breaking". Well this is a board of internet mentalists, and we foresaw it. There have been predictions of "this will be worse than Camille" since Saturday. Why weren't troops mobilised then?

Medics talk about the "golden 72 hours" to save people after a disaster. That time is now up, and thousands or hundreds of thousands are still trapped. With no water. In the richest nation on Earth. Why has this happened?

stet (stet), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:39 (twenty years ago)

it's the will of Allah!

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

I think that Bush should be lowered into the center of the NOLA superdome so the thousands left rotting there can express their feelings to him.

Ian in Brooklyn, Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

if he had any balls at all, he WOULD go to the Superdome and make a dazzlingly uplifting show of solidarity and human kindness.


of course, this will not happen.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:43 (twenty years ago)

I knew I should have burned a goat or two on the first day of spring.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:43 (twenty years ago)

What exactly is the big deal about Pat Robertson's charity being on the donation list??? I see a pretty wide variety of religious and non-religious charities on the FEMA site. If they're equipped to help, and people who are supporters of Robertson want to donate through his group (just like a Jewish person might want to donate through B'nai Brith), why shouldn't they?

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

"You think that color works for ya?"
(Kid throws down shirt and runs.)

Know what? FUCK OFF, SMUGLY ANCHORGUY.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

Meanwhile in Washington...

Bush Bypasses Senate to Install Official

"Bush used a "recess appointment" Wednesday to name Alice S. Fisher to lead the agency's criminal division. Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., had blocked the nomination because he wants to talk to an agent who named Fisher in an e-mail about allegedly abusive interrogations at the U.S. military prison camp at Guantanamo."

walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:47 (twenty years ago)

donut, yeah ive read it all, and it is becoming clearer. i guess from a UK perspectivwe the US is seen as very much as in control of its interior as it is of its exterior, so to see such a damning exmaple of its own lack of unifying solidarity, the insinuations of racism and lack of interest in the welfare of its poor, its all pretty new to me in a way. like, i thought of donating, then i thought, thats weird! i cant donate to america! its the richest country in the world, what an absurd concept! then i snapped out of it and just fucking did it. but that initial rection is sort of symptomatic of my problems with understanding this.

its made doubly hard by the fact that reporting in the uk seems so muted (NB I DONT have a TV, so this is skewed). this is a humanitarian disaster, and it seems unprecedented in what it represents. reading of the dying in the streets, the dead bodies. i dont even know what i would think if i read about that happening in the UK, its juts unbelievable. why dont i feel so strongly when worse (eg in terms of loss of life) disasters hit other more impoverished countries? well thats the point isnt it. Q: is louisiana so far from the gaze of gov. power that it migth as well be another country?

ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:47 (twenty years ago)

"a San Fran Earthquake, another hit on NYC, and the flooding in New Orleans"

Of these three, I feel comparatively lucky to live with the threat of the one prospective disaster that is entirely independent of human action. Global warming = more hurricanes. Dumb foreign policy = more terrorists. But earthquakes, they just happen whenever they want...

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:47 (twenty years ago)

(meaning I guess I'm happier to suffer the whims of geothermal activity than I am human incompetence)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

I haven't seen anything credible that suggests that global warming is a significant contributor to this disaster. It's not like it's the first category 4 hurricane ever, and most of the problems are caused by the geography of New Orleans.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

What exactly is the big deal about Pat Robertson's charity being on the donation list???

Given last week's brouhaha involving him, Hurting, I'd have to say I'd find prioritizing him a *little* strange. Second on the list? Above folks like the Salvation Army?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

I'm a little suspicious that Robertson has all that many relief agencies/apparatus in place that are actually going to be of much help. Hey, maybe I'm wrong, but I've never heard of Pat Robertson helping anybody. (as opposed to say, Billy Graham, who I also don't like but at least grudgingly respect)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

xpost to Shakey -- Well, a disaster is a disaster, no matter what color you use to paint it. And I'd rather have the eventual hope (haha) that one day, a natural disaster that is seen coming can be prepared better than for something that, like earthquakes, we will probably NEVER be able to prepare for, succinctly.

The thing that is oddly NOT being mentioned at all, as far as human disasters go, is the eventual pandemic. What are doing about that, exactly? "Pandemic? Is that when there's an epidemic of pandas??? OMG!!"

donut gon' nut (donut), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

the democrats really do need to politicize this, no holds barred.

gear (gear), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

Granted, the pandemic is a WORLD problem... a bit out of the league of what we're talking about here.. so sorry for the digression.

donut gon' nut (donut), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

and is there any evidence to suggest that he is equipped to do anything? the others have long histories with such work.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

great idea, gear.. although I have a sneaky feeling democrats might have been involved in approving cuts to FEMA... which is the ONLY reason I'm guessing they have been so quiet now.

donut gon' nut (donut), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

Oh, I've seen the potential health disasters mentioned a LOT. I'm sure the CDC is freaking the fuck out right now. The potential for cholera, etc. is waaaaay high.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)


Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) issued this letter to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) today

"Next week will be the Senate’s opportunity to address this crisis, and I write to you today to ask that you permit the Senate to do just that. As you know, the current Senate agenda calls for us to consider motions to proceed to estate tax legislation and other issues when we return to session next Tuesday. Given the tragic and devastating events along the Gulf Coast, members of the Senate would have great difficulty explaining why we were debating the estate tax during our first days back when we know hundreds of thousands of families are suffering.

I urge you to take the estate tax and these other items off the table, so that Senators and the resources of the Senate can immediately be focused when where they belong when we return -- on the recovery effort. There can be no more important challenge facing our country in the days ahead than getting relief to victims of Hurricane Katrina, and the agenda of the United States Senate should reflect that priority."

walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

and is there any evidence to suggest that he is equipped to do anything? the others have long histories with such work.

-- gabbneb (gabbne...), September 1st, 2005.

http://www.ob.org/

I dunno, judge for yourself. It appears to be a pretty large-scale international charity. Is the list-placement a little suspect? Maybe. But hardly something to be up in arms about from the sound of it.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 1 September 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

It all comes back to leadership

By Wesley Clark

...Again, just this past week, there was at least 36 hours notice that a major hurricane was going to hit the Gulf Coast, including likely a devastating blow to New Orleans, which certainly came to pass. The President continued with his regular schedule on Monday and Tuesday in California, Arizona, and Texas to hold some staged Medicare events and enjoy more vacation time, while finally returning to the White House yesterday. The joint task force including National Guard set up by the Pentagon failed to be on the scene in New Orleans in a timely manner to stop the looting and assist in the evacuation. Where is the leadership?

Then just this morning, the President claimed that no one could have anticipated the levee breaches we've seen in New Orleans after Katrina hit. That's not leadership, that's an excuse. In fact, people have predicted this kind of disaster for many years, including President Bush's own FEMA in 2001, when they ranked hurricane flood damage to New Orleans among the three likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing America. Instead, funding was significantly cut back, leaving key engineering projects on hold. Instead, this Administration focused on the war in Iraq, tax cuts, and private sector economic growth without asking the American people to make needed sacrifices for the good of the country. Again I ask you, where is the leadership?...

walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

I knew this would happen. This happened with the L.A. riots in 1992. A major disaster in a major U.S. city is dismissed as "a bunch of criminals/dumb people who knew what was coming to them." Thank you, Bush gov and (most of the) mass media.

donut gon' nut (donut), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

"Your organization's Internet use policy restricts access to this web page at this time. Reason:
The Websense category "Advocacy Groups" is filtered."

Oddly, the Red Cross and AmeriCares are NOT blocked. Judgment passed.


Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

Actually, I take it back. There's nothing suspect about the placement on the list:

Donate Cash

American Red Cross
1-800-HELP NOW (435-7669) English,
1-800-257-7575 Spanish;

America’s Second Harvest
1-800-344-8070

Operation Blessing
1-800-436-6348

Donate Cash and/or Volunteer

Adventist Community Services
1-800-381-7171

B'nai B'rith International
1-888-388-4224

Catholic Charities, USA
1-800-919-9338

Christian Disaster Response
941-956-5183 or 941-551-9554

Christian Reformed World Relief Committee
1-800-848-5818

Church World Service
1-800-297-1516

Convoy of Hope
417-823-8998

Corporation for National and Community Service Disaster Relief Fund
(202) 606-6718

Feed the Children
1-800-525-7575

Lutheran Disaster Response
800-638-3522

Mennonite Disaster Service
717-859-2210

Nazarene Disaster Response
888-256-5886

Presbyterian Disaster Assistance
800-872-3283

Salvation Army
1-800-SAL-ARMY (725-2769)

Southern Baptist Convention -- Disaster Relief
1-800-462-8657, ext. 6440

United Jewish Communities
1-877-277-2477

Union for Reform Judaism

United Methodist Committee on Relief
1-800-554-8583


It just happens to be one of three charities that fall under "donate cash" only as opposed to "donate cash and/or volunteer." They are alphabetical, and it's third on the list.

Come on, bloggers!

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)

from my friend blake's site, the next left:

If you had any doubts as to the evilness of Fred Phelps and his right-wing, anti-gay, anti-American "Christian" crusade, your doubts can be lifted. Here is what is posted on his site now:

THANK GOD FOR HURRICANE KATRINA!!!

THANK GOD FOR DEAD AMERICANS!

THANK GOD FOR HIS JUDGMENTS!

America worships at the fag altar and spits in God's face with every funeral they hold for these so called her soldiers. Is it any wonder that God has punished this vile nation with these losses?

It is no wonder that God has sent these great, unstoppable winds to sweep whole cities away like so much chaff. Just as it is no wonder that God sent the Muslim planes to destroy the World Trade Center, it is no wonder that the God who created the Earth and Seas (Genesis 1:9-10) could use them to destroy whole cities and unkown numbers of unrepentant sinners. Be thankful it wasn't BILLIONS, as it was in the days of Noah!

I'm not going to link to this. Fred Phelps, if you're reading: Eat a dick.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

"Muslim planes"

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:09 (twenty years ago)

"fag altar"!!!

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

i love the idea that there were billions of people on earth in noah's time.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:11 (twenty years ago)

http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleases/march99/030599c.htm

Rotgutt (Rotgutt), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

math is gay, you know.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

Did anything come of those allegations?

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)

diamond-mining operation in zaire? wtf?!?!?

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:17 (twenty years ago)

He's doing his part to help solidify the institute of marriage.

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

Eh, fuck playing devil's advocate:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7027/business.html

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

will someone please shoot Fred Phelps

gear (gear), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

the "people to shoot" list is getting a little crowded...

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)

If only there was some sort of roving group of armed people who were willing to shoot everyone...

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 September 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)


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