Match of the Day vs The Premiership

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i've forgotten who the third team is in The Big Three. things like broader coverage are only a direct response to criticism of The Premiership tho aren't they? As in BBC used to prioritise the bigger clubs themselves. I like BBC stats fever tho.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Sunday, 22 August 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Can I say one word:
ADVERTS

= more football - one and half hours of football versus Coke idents, Townsend prattling and Lynam phoning in his performance. he was like Brezhnev in his later days - it could have been a hologram of any Des perfroamnce since 1998 and you couldn't tell.

ITV are shite at football - always have been. I refer anyone to the idea that anyone would listen to a 7" single of their 1986 World Cup theme tune, then use it as their normal theme tune for the next 4 years, regardless of the non-mexican flavour of Sunday 1st division football from Villa park. Cockfarmers, who also started the Premeirship off (Cheers Greg Dyke!) and who by only shoing 'the big five' ensured that those self-same five becamse even more self-important and agressive. So fuck ITV and dig up the founders of it and fuck them too.

MOTD also ahs more match action from all games, which the Premiershite couldn't do. All in all - I have actually made my saturday's fit around seenig MOTD which I never did under the Premiership because it was just rubbish.

Pinefox only asks this because of Matt Smith luv - have you seen him on that stoopid ptrolhead show PF? His matey askance looks and 'I'm just like you viewer only I get to compere these wankers talk shite' really fell on its bum.

Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 22 August 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

As in BBC used to prioritise the bigger clubs themselves.

I don't believe this to be true. Perhaps it's a false memory but I don't recall late '90s/early '00s MOTD to be purely the Arse and the Manch (and the Chelse).

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 22 August 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i didn't actually watch The Premiership much, preferring to wait for Goals On Sunday on Sky Sports the next day, so I was used to and didn't mind the adverts so much. Kudos tho Dave, for you have argued MOTD's superiority with the aplomb of Junior Agogo.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Sunday, 22 August 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Einstein Agogo in my case.

Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 22 August 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

MOTD used to select three games in advance, and show only brief highlights from the rest. There were regular complaints that Man U/Liverpool featured in their main games far more often than Leicester/Southampton, say. I don't think they were as unbalanced as ITV, though.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 22 August 2004 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

As a neutral I think I'd rather watch the better teams anyway, but I recognise the logic of being more balanced in coverage, because of course the better teams won't always be in the better games.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Sunday, 22 August 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I like that they have highlights of the Sunday matches. I would kinda prefer to have two main matches (just as long as it wasn't arse, man u or chelsea every week) and then just the goals from the other matches.

I thought they should have analysed Atouba's goal a bit more, and they should have made a catty comment about Carr.

jel -- (jel), Sunday, 22 August 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

'the better teams'

the ballfox, Sunday, 22 August 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Steady Mike is spot on that coverage is better ie. less big 3 bias, more footage from bigger variety - this has to be the big factor.

Good point that Hansen may be relying on reputation. Look how far back in his chair he slumps!

I think Boyle wants to get in the ring. But with whom?

My comments had little to do with Matt Smith, who never presented the Saturday night Premiership anyway. But it's true, he may have swayed me a little ITV's way.

Allen over Peacock - 6 days a week will do me. He can rest on the 7th.

the bellefox, Sunday, 22 August 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I really thought MOTD2 pulled itself out of the fire this week - Chiles was a lot more settled, though he's still got a bit of a problem with knowing when to let Strachan talk. What I think it is (that became more obvious this week) is he's trying to turn it into a proper discussion show, and stimulate interesting conversation, and it was definitely working a lot more - Peter Reid was brought in about half an hour in and he fitted in very well, integrated nicely into the discussion, which Chiles let flow. The big thing was Viv Anderson, who was really good - not necessarily for insight, but just for confidence and presence. He felt like a key component of the discussion, someone who was really prepared to have a debate and an argument with Strachan, and someone who was just generally a really useful presence to counterbalance Chiles' tendency to let people talk. It was definitely working a lot better this week, though, and could very well blossom into the companion piece to MOTD that it's designed to be.

But Kevin Day was still terrible.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 22 August 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

The camera work is weird on MOTD2 - it feels like Chiles is having to stoop low to not be looking down at us.

Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 22 August 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

You're both correct.

Chiles is hunching, it's dodgy. Chiles feels dodgy to me - OK as a light-hearted radio link-man type, but not for this big job. But are the well-intentioned BBC maybe trying to fill a Midlands hole?

(Then again - Lineker!)

How about a Walsall lass, that would do.

I don't have nae problem wi Strachan. He's quirky, genuinely, I think, as well as put-on persona; a mix. And he can be funny, enough for me.

Odd about Reidy: eh! I 'ope 'e only got 'alf de fee, la!

But mainly, how right WBS is about Anderson. The old-Gooner rules don't apply here - there's Forest, United, Barnsley, pioneer black boss and all, and all. I like him. A really good presence, not pushy, not arrogant, but ready to get involved. Keep him in! Just don't involve his c.1988 replacement, L** D****.

Kevin Day actually seems to be getting worse, from an appalling start. But possibly he just remains appalling.

the vivfox, Sunday, 22 August 2004 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

He's not on MOTD but I really do like Crooksy

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Sunday, 22 August 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

You're a sick man(nion)

Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 22 August 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Strachan I like too. Did you hear his comments re non-Scottish people starting to laugh (haha, 'starting') at Scotland? Coupled with apparent interest in the national team coach pos if offered, I think he would do better than Vogts.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Sunday, 22 August 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

What I think it is is Chiles has pitched the whole concept to the MOTD responsables, the idea of the lighthearted Sunday night discussion show to take on the Sunday games and then discuss at greater length the weekend's events than MOTD's new broader-focus format would possibly allow, and he's picked out people he wants to work with. Strachan is an obvious choice, a man renowned for his wit but also his knowledge, who, if he can rein in that long-windedness, is perfect for this.

Thing with Day is that Chiles has worked with him on the radio, and it's worked there, but maybe it's more what Day's being given to work with, which would not be funny in the hands of anyone at all - the "have a look through the footage for hilarious moments of a non-contentious nature" thing is flat-out shit. Then again, he doesn't really do anything to inspire any great confidence at all. Roving reports like the one from Norwich last week are the domain of Football Focus, and from Day's real nervousness as regards how to handle it, they'd do very well to stay that way.

I have faith in Chiles, though - the key is that he is a listener who is approaching this from the angle 'What would I like to watch if I was at home?' He's genuinely really very interested in what the panel had to say, he gives them a lot of room, doesn't try to force the discussion. The problem with this is he doesn't really bring much control with it, and he's possibly a touch too respectful - he's sitting across from three immensely experienced and decorated ex-pros and managers/coaches, and he is well aware that his personal opinion is not going to really count for anything - too aware, perhaps.

However, it is very nice to see someone so willing to just take a back seat and let it flow, and who has such genuine enthusiasm for their programme and its format, who isn't just reading off the effing autocue all the time. I really am quite sure this will grow into something very worthwhile now.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

WBS: though OTM re. Viv, you're being far too generous to Chiles. I think you're missing the element of strain and artifice in him: the very deliberate attempt to be some kind of fanzine geezer, on telly. It may be sincere but it feels forced. Also, so much of the time he's reading from his clipboard - that must work better on radio - and he should not be allowed to say rude things on television either. Keep it clean.

Crooksy is magnificent and should be on MotD every week. I feel a bore for saying this.

the bellefox, Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

'he's sitting across from three immensely experienced and decorated ex-pros and managers/coaches, and he is well aware that his personal opinion is not going to really count for anything - too aware, perhaps.'

Well if you believe mourinho, none of these ppl know ANYTHING about 'futbol'.

They think they know but really...they don't!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

You should feel ashamed for saying it. An interviedw between Jacques Santini and Crooks could rival Tarkovsky for utter tedium and lots and lots of time spent revealing precisely cock all.

Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno - I think that's what he's going for, though he's still really not very sure of how he's going about it himself.

What is also interesting about MOTD2 is that it is drawing up very clear lines about who among the BBC's pundit pool would work on it. MOTD2 has already had people that were effective (Anderson, Strachan) and weren't (Houllier). A show that relies on discussion between its pundits requires pundits that are willing to instigate and get involved in that discussion themselves, and it's a very tricky thing to get the tone of it right, to be naturally witty and interesting and not forced or excessively cliquey. I'd be interested to see if "Party On" Garth could do that - if there's one thing he always is, it's himself. I'm fairly sure Schmeichel would be terrible, and Dixon and Bright... do not even go there. Wrighty could do quite well - you'd imagine him, Strachan and Anderson could come up with the odd thing or two to say to each other. Lawro wouldn't work because he's too reliant on being asked questions by the main presenter, and I'm pretty certain that that's a reason why it probably wouldn't suit The Peacock either, he's not the type to go for debates, but rather an analyst who likes making his own statements - that said, he was quite definitely the most effective pundit at the African Nations, and one of the few who was capable of starting a discussion with whoever he was sharing the sofa with (christ knows Crooks couldn't). I'd imagine we can safely rule Hansen out of the equation - he'd probably do alright, but he'd definitely never deign to grace it with his presence + fear of Strachan going at him Martin O'Neill-style.

Thinking about this, though - Strachan and O'Neill (w/Anderson as referee). You'd pay to see that, no?

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Oi, Boyle! D'you want some?

the crookfox, Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Pinefox - you're a man, and you're on a thread. Your name begins with pine and ends in fox, and you're a Spurs fan. You're posting on messageboards after 1am, so the only thing I can begin with by saying is simply this: yes.

Garth B (daveb), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Though looking upthread, MOTD2's ideal presenter reveals itself - James Richardson. Ideally, outside a cafe in Turin with a big frothy cappuccino and a slice of tooth-killing cheesecake while in the background a lone saxophonist performs the greatest hits of Level 42.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

garth crooks?

I think he is terrible.

RJG (RJG), Monday, 23 August 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

adrian chiles presents 'working lunch' (business program) on bbc2.

cºzen (Cozen), Monday, 23 August 2004 06:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I enjoy Crooksy's eloquence and demeanour but I will concede that his analytical nous is inferior to Lawro and Hansen.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I miss James Richardson as well. But to have him working in England would just be odd.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, but since he left, with all the new Coffee shops we have, any UK high street is like Italy now with slightly fewer car crashes in the background.

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

but shit weather. he won't get out of bed unless it's clement.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I won't turn over unless it's Le Frenais.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Adrian Chiles always hunches when he's sitting down. It's his thing.

Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see how this anatomically possible

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Complicated tendon mix up.

Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Adrian 'I'm a Voodoo' Chiles was much better last night. Perhaps he just cheers up when West Brom are on. I know I would. The funny man's female Wenger was quite funny, I thought, funnier than that advert anyway. Not that I fell about or anything. They do 'funny bits' in Spain too. Basically they show some unfunny stuff and the people in the studio are required to laugh raucously. It is usually someone picking their nose. You can imagine how convincing Michael Robinson is. Another thing that seems to have been imported from Spain is obligatory post-match ref-slagging. What a waste of the licence payer's money. MOTD was best when they just had highlights of two matches and you had to wait for Midlands Today for the other goals, which were usually filmed using the club's own cine camera. I like Strachan. I think he is clever at football. I am beginning to like Arsenal. It is Reyes's fault. I think they should have pulled Peter Reid up by his ears, Tiswas-style. I think the U2 song is good.

This week we have extra MOTD on Wednesday! I think Gary L is in charge.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:38 (twenty-one years ago)

MOTD2 is dire. The ironic/semi-serious vibe seems like a fairly desperate attempt to cosy up to the supporters by looking at things *like they do*. The Beeb is always better at sport when it stays with it's natural tone of slight stuffiness.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 23 August 2004 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

If your're wondering what happened to Andy Townsend, he has now dropped down a division and appears on 'The Championship', ITV's Sunday morning round up of Hackney Marshes highlights.

A cringy 'walking across the pitch interview' and cut and paste terrace introduction set the scene. Then 20 minutes of the Plymouth game (including adverts). Still Beautiful Day, which was incorrect because it was cloudy.

MikeyG (MikeyG), Monday, 23 August 2004 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...
Revival, to mention Matt Smith.

Tuesday night, late highlights, after the Rooneyfest, he signed off:

So guess who made the headlines tonight - something old: Trafford - something new - you know who - something borrowed - hardly, at £27m - and, of course, he used to be a Blue. Two words: Wayne Rooney. Third word: Night.

It was so surreally fine that I must write it down, on the spot. But I don't see it being revived and adapted as regularly as 'Remember The Name!'.

the bluefox, Thursday, 30 September 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha, I was going to post that, but forgot about half of it by the time I got to ILX. You are a fine man, mr pinefox.

ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 30 September 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

This morning I watched 'The Championship' - it could have been worse. Lots of 'Footbal Focus'-type interludes that I don't really care for.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 3 October 2004 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

The Score Interactive service on BBCi is starting to outstrip Sky Sports News for ex-pros-look-at-monitors-and-grumble Saturday afternoon excellence. The reason: their golden reserves of archive footage.

During the good bit of yesterday afternoon (before Redknapp* tried to maim Cahill and things went wrong at Goodison) there was a compendium of Garth Crooks light entertainment moments - including the great man introducing Altered Images on TOTP in 1982 alongside Peter Powell! I nearly choked on my cashews.

(* - in the Goodison h/t tunnel scuffle Redknapp was initially cited as the peacemaker. Steve McMahon said, "You're jokin'. He was in the piano with the lid down." Fantastic.)

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 3 October 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Alan Hansen more or less called Adrian Chiles a twat last night, unless I missed some ironic intent. There certainly seemed to be some tension. At one point you could see Hansen and Strachan talking over Chiles in a 'what's he on about?' sort of way. But I couldn't really tell what was going on. I wonder if The Pinefox, or anyone else for that matter, saw it, and whether it was 'quality punditry' or just rudeness.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Also the introduction of Hansen meant 15 minutes more programme.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

hansen was brusque to the point of rude. he said chiles didn't know what he was talking about (about defending, unsurprisingly). he also said he prefered doing the saturday show because at least the questions were relevant. he was playing up a bit.

Pete W (peterw), Monday, 4 October 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Strachan on the Boro/Manyoo game was great last night. Its so nice to see pundits accentuating what Boro did well rather than "what went wrong" with United.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 4 October 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

He is, I think, a quality pundit. And he always mentions his son.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 October 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Strachan's terrific.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 October 2004 09:21 (twenty-one years ago)

And Hansen's doing the 'what can anyone who's never played bring to the party' in which case, we'll all fuck off Alan and leave you and some old alcoholics to talk about something amongst yourselves YOU TIT

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 4 October 2004 10:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Chiles is rub but its his job to present, not to provide indepth analysis, thats what the licence payers give Hansen and Strachan a boatload of money for.

Alan Hansen never tried it quite so obviously with Des.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 4 October 2004 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, but when he (Chiles) then offers strident comment on teams (ie, Chelsea are wrong to defend so deep), surely he leaves himself open to criticism? i would like to see more proper journos doing MOTD, like Kevin McCarra, not stooges like Chiles.

Pete W (peterw), Monday, 4 October 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)


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