White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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i'm sure *some* people in finland may have had *some* knowledge of the outside world before it had a black population.

Hence my usage of words "most" and "majority".

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

I actually I'd have given those kids a "WTF?" and maybe some shit on blacking their faces to be Ben Wallace. Boo fucking hoo if they don't have black faces they're not authentic. They're probably not 6'whatever either. And last time I checked most of the zombies aren't actually undead, even if most of the slutty nurses are actually sluts.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

Spike Lee has shown us that even making up black people in blackface can be considered offensive!

http://www.cinema-city.com/bamboozled.jpg

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, god forbid people's fashion choices go to support worthy organizations instead of purchasing their 17th Yankees hat (now in Lime Green!)...?

New Era gets the money in both cases.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

The thing is, I can understand why someone would be bothered in some way by a kid doing this, and maybe give them some crap or crack a joke about them, but in what realm is this similar to actual blackface or minstrelry? Isn't it a good thing that a kid, of any race, looks up to this person and wants to emulate them? He's not making fun of him or ridiculing him, he wants to be him and dress like him! I'm not sure how that can truly be considered offensive. This isn't even on the same spectrum much less "part of the same issue," and I think that claiming it is is a rather massive disservice, the same way certain ILXors screaming sexism every time someone disagrees with them is a rather huge disservice to a cause. Get one perspective.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

Andy, who the hell do you think New Era licences those things from? God? Steinbrenner? Ben Wallace?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/resource.aspx?id=17634

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

Ghost Dog

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/09/30/48m.jpg

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

http://www.bravenewworld.demon.co.uk/films/ghostworld/ghostworld4.jpg

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

Also, Tuomas, most "cowboys" were black or hispanic. And "Africans" and "African-Americans" have very different ideas of self concept.
-- jdubz (dr_...), November 1st, 2005 3:45 PM. (ex machina) (later) (link)

are you trying to say "africans" are also faggos who love their socialist education systems?

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

But in an interview on Friday with The Associated Press, Mr. Fox weighed in, noting that he himself had grown up with the comic books, in which Memin, which made its debut in the 1940s, is portrayed as lazy and mischievous.
The stamp shows a "character very loved in Mexico and that has absolutely nothing discriminatory about it," the president said. "Frankly I don't understand the reaction."
...

In May, Mr. Fox initially refused to apologize for a comment stating that Mexicans cross the border to take jobs that "not even blacks" want. The comment led to a meeting with the Rev. Jesse Jackson and an eventual rapprochement.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/2203001011.08.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

i wasnt comparing a kid blacked up as ben wallace to a kid dressed hitler, i was comparing two offensive costumes!! ghosts are scary, hitler is scary, you can kinda see how some fucked up kid might draw the conclusion that hitler would make a good costume, but it would offend a lot of people, even though halloween costumes are about scaring people!! its baldly disingenous to pretend that i was trying to say that admiring black athletes is like the holocaust or whatever the fuck yall are doing- like i clarified above, offensive in practice not intent

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/actors/ted-danson/danson-blackface-1.jpg

BECKER!

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

It'd be kinda funny if he just found Ben Wallace really scary (but not because he was a black man).

It's making me wonder if you were to ask people what are the first three physical 'characteristics' they would associate with Ben Wallace, one of the three answers would be 'dark skin' or similar. And whether that is wrong and the sort of thing to be discouraged (skin colour tending to be one of the first 'characteristics' when Caucasians describe non-Caucasians).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

http://www.segabastard.com/db/tom2.jpg

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

http://www.bethpagemassage.com/newsite/images/mud_pack.jpg

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

ghosts are scary, hitler is scary, you can kinda see how some fucked up kid might draw the conclusion that hitler would make a good costume

ethan you're grasping now. Also, I saw that South Park episode too.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

I just suddenly remembered that for Halloween 1990 (at the height of the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait) I went as an Arab, complete with head scarf and fake beard.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

Andy, who the hell do you think New Era licences those things from? God? Steinbrenner? Ben Wallace?

Are the Birmingham Black Barons playing in a new stadium with their cut?

I really doubt that New Era has put all of their profits from Negro Leagues merchandise into the pockets of the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Negro Leagues vets. I could see a few museum displays, perhaps.

(I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOMEONE TO PROVE ME WRONG HERE.)

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

and this whole 'admiration' thing is a lame cop-out, since when does positivity excuse racism?? is it perfectly inoffensive to say that black people are predisposed to athleticism and have natural rhythm, or that jews are good with money?

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

ethan your last post still suggested that most americans would find what this kid did 'inexcusable.' i don't know why you feel misrepresented.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

im only grasping because it was a stupid one-off analogy which everyone pounced on so they could ignore everything else i said

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

and for the record i dont have any problem w/ white folks in negro leagues hats/jerseys/whatever, no different from me wearing a 2pac shirt

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

i think we need to define what 'inexcusable' means. that he should be grounded? spanked? tried as an adult? or just that he should go home and put on that Paul Wall outfit his mother bought him in the first place.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

http://www.mgglass.it/straws.jpg

xpost yeah no, I know you wouldn't have an issue with that, I have no fucking clue what Andy is on about.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

most americans dont find blackface inexcusable? can anyone find an example for me of recent, acceptable blackface? what about those frat parties where white guys dress up like their favorite rappers, with gold chains and brown makeup- did anyone defend that?? im sure they admired snoop just as much as lil white kids admire ben wallace!!

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

im sure they admired snoop just as much as lil white kids admire ben wallace!!

ok NOW you're stretching

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

no different from me wearing a 2pac shirt

What about a FUBU shirt?

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

really i cant believe a bunch of usually reasonable people are arguing that we live in a post-racial utopia where white blackface is ok as long as they "admire" black people

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

maybe you should have compared blacking up with dressing up as a ghost, and it would have made it more clear.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

xxxxxxp: Have we already discussed the fact that you can't GET that Tintin episode in the States any more? That one and err "Tintin in Soviet Russia" (whatever the title really is, I don't know any French) only appear an French-language editions -- they're not included on the ad-pages for any American publication.

Jesus god, Dan & Ally Oll Korrect here.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

I'll admit I think too much about that stuff (re: Negro Leagues). Can the average white person wearing a Negro League hat name two other teams, or more than five players? Probably not. They're probably wearing it to be cool, or because they like the design. Should I care? Probably not.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

You haven't explained how a kid dressing up as his favorite athlete is racism in any way, still. Besides making a really tenuous complete-lack-of-perspective comparison to actual racists pretending to be blacks and doing minstrel shows. Which, like I said, is kind of a disservice to any kind of civil rights/anti-racism cause. This is the kind of bullshit that gets people mired into ridiculous arguments because, you know what, no, most Americans would not find a kid doing this inexcusable. He's NOT dressed up as Hitler. He's NOT dressed up as, say, OJ Simpson.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

I have no fucking clue what Andy is on about.

Haha I am Duran Duran.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Burning the ground, you break from the crowd.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

http://www.humorgazette.com/images/prince-nazi.jpg

― sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

ive never worn fubu but i know plenty of white folks who do (discount mall yall), there is alot of clothes i opt out of buying even though i like how it looks (love algierz but only rock the logo, never gonna fuck with w/ tips shirt on a white body)

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

if you draw this conclusion from a kid who dressed up as a sports person who happens to be black. then perhaps YOU are the one who is stereotyping???

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

I don't know if the blackface inexcusable, but I'd find it fairly uncomfortable if those kids came to my house.

It's on the same level as when my high-school cafeteria, to celebrate Black History Month, served fried chicken and greens.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

ethan is there any point on ilx that you are going to stop speaking for teh minorities?

we aren't talking about some fucking douchebag with shoe polish on his face and bright red lipstick and white out around his eyes waving around a bucket of goddamn chicken, you're talking about a kid, probably under the age of 12, wearing a basketball jersey and some darker-colored foundation! You don't see at all how the reaction this is garnering from a couple of you is a little off?

Like I said, I can understand being like wtf, or saying something to the kid like "Some people might find that offensive," I mean I really wouldn't want my kid doing that just because of that, but this level of outrage? Comparing it to Hitler and rape? Jesus christ.

I gotta say, ken OTM.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

(xpost to myself) (In the sense that, yeah, I understand that it's supposed to be a tribute to black culture, but there's too much history and subtext there for it to be completely inoffensive.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

seriously as much as yall wanna pretend we live in some post-racial utopia where everybody is on the same footing there is still shit that white folks are not allowed to do and blackface is high up on the list. who decides this shit? black community standards, and just like im sure you can find black folks who didnt think slavery was so bad or are cool with white kids callin em the n-word you can find people who dont mind non-hostile "innocent" blackface, but when shit will defend 9 out of 10 of the people you are dressing up as white people need to just let it go

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

xpost: my jr. high school did that once. really embarrasing!

― sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

TOMBOT, you were aware that Hergé was (mildly) rightwing?

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

Brits: is this offensive??

http://www.papalazarou.co.uk/pd/images/postcard3.jpg

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

yall wanna pretend we live in some post-racial utopia where everybody is on the same footing

wtf?

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

sorry many xposts- not tryna speak for minorities, bullshit and you know it

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

hobart, no because it's character based and deliberately provocative thus only 'offensive' in the way that David Brent's racism is.

Reeves & Mortimer blacking up to play Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye with Geordie accents, WAS deemed offensive by some though (they then had to do the act minus paint).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

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