ILX Parenting 6: "Put Some Goddamn Pants On Before You Go Outside!" is a thing I say now

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have at it

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 July 2015 19:51 (six years ago) link

"because I'M the parent!" is a thing *I* say now.

UYD: Oxys, Percs, Vics, Addys, Rit-Dogs and Xannys (sunny successor), Friday, 10 July 2015 20:47 (six years ago) link

I find myself saying giving the weirdest instructions sometimes

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 July 2015 21:00 (six years ago) link

completely frivolous post but: ex-coworker pregnant w second baby. she's naming it "Macyn" and I am pretty IA about it tbh

ugh. just call the fuckin kid mason jeeeeeeezus christ almighty

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 19:48 (six years ago) link

boy or girl? I'm guessing girl.

mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 22:50 (six years ago) link

just intentionally mispronounce it from now on

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 July 2015 23:00 (six years ago) link

"makin? like yr makin a baby?"

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 July 2015 23:00 (six years ago) link

we've moved beyond the "why" stage to the "no" or simply ignoring stage which is slowly sapping my will to live and/or self-image as a nice guy

transparent play for gifs (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 12:53 (six years ago) link

Hey all. Haven't been around for a while but K now has a baby sister, E. 👨‍👩‍👧‍👧

five six and (man alive), Thursday, 16 July 2015 00:58 (six years ago) link

Good job.

Jeff, Thursday, 16 July 2015 01:02 (six years ago) link

Oh yay! I was just thinking about you, man alive, and hoping you'd come back and say hello. Congratulations!

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 16 July 2015 01:45 (six years ago) link

Aw! Nice to not be forgotten by ILXORs, at least a few nice ones.

five six and (man alive), Thursday, 16 July 2015 01:47 (six years ago) link

yes you were missed dude

marcos, Thursday, 16 July 2015 02:12 (six years ago) link

we even posted in the ilx milk carton thread a while back iirc

marcos, Thursday, 16 July 2015 02:13 (six years ago) link

anyways good to have a new thread

J is starting to ask "what is ____" about everything, it is really cool, like he is really trying to get at the deeper meaning of it, e.g. he has been eating oatmeal for a good two years now but now he wants to really know "what is oatmeal???"

marcos, Thursday, 16 July 2015 02:15 (six years ago) link

haha also xp man alive i misread your post to say "K now has a babysitter, E" so i did not comment b/c that seemed unremarkable, but yea congratulations!

marcos, Thursday, 16 July 2015 02:24 (six years ago) link

So yeah, two kids is pretty crazy. OTOH in the final months before the birth I hustled hard and found a better job -- better pay AND more flexible with time, and that's been making things a lot easier.

five six and (man alive), Thursday, 16 July 2015 03:13 (six years ago) link

Oh awesome! Congratulations on the new job AND the new baby!

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 16 July 2015 03:17 (six years ago) link

yeah two kids is nuts. fwiw three is not as nuts as two is, in case you're inclined in that way

we just flew back to the usa for a couple of weeks and my kids did well, but then my youngest is 8 so why would it be bad. tons of movies on demand with the little screens, they keep bringing you food and drinks, you get to snuggle, what's not to like.

droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 16 July 2015 12:01 (six years ago) link

fwiw three is not as nuts as two

this needs explaination

UYD: Oxys, Percs, Vics, Addys, Rit-Dogs and Xannys (sunny successor), Thursday, 16 July 2015 17:36 (six years ago) link

two is fucking crazy

marcos, Thursday, 16 July 2015 18:45 (six years ago) link

I assume when you have three you let the oldest child be in charge of the other two. Parenting over!

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 July 2015 18:46 (six years ago) link

im dying here w/ 2, it is intense

my mom had 5 and i just can't even comprehend that

marcos, Thursday, 16 July 2015 18:48 (six years ago) link

i think maybe people who say the jump to 3 is not a big deal is maybe because at that point the older ones are a little more manageable since they are older?

marcos, Thursday, 16 July 2015 18:49 (six years ago) link

also some of you may recall i mentioned J's autism diagnosis on the previous thread, things were super stressful for a long while especially after F's birth but things do seem to be falling into place a little w/ his services and planning for preschool next year. we found some really incredible home-based therapists and b/c of his diagnosis J also got offered a spot at one of our city's best public schools allowing us to bypass some of the anxiety-inducing byzantine lottery process. one benefit i guess to having a kid with special needs. also J is just doing amazingly well right now and we've seen so much growth and progress, it is really hopeful.

marcos, Thursday, 16 July 2015 18:54 (six years ago) link

Oh good! That's good to hear.

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 16 July 2015 19:21 (six years ago) link

Thanks for the update Marcos, that's good to hear.
My friend with 3 kids says the jump to 3 is the craziest ever. You only have 2 hands for a start!

kinder, Thursday, 16 July 2015 19:44 (six years ago) link

Yeah I've heard that 3 is the hardest - harder than two, harder than four.

LOL survey says - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/07/three-children-is-most-st_n_3229032.html

I think we'll stick with one to be on the safe side.

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 16 July 2015 19:58 (six years ago) link

http://adequateman.deadspin.com/14-things-you-will-say-to-your-kids-a-million-goddamn-t-1717985943

I would add "Put on your shoes" to this list.

Immediate Follower (NA), Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:11 (six years ago) link

Ivy's only 19 months so some of those don't apply but we're already well on our way with "Careful," "You're fine," and "Don't eat that."

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:16 (six years ago) link

yeah I dunno with #3, #1 was already 6 years old, so didn't need the kind of management that newborns do, and got along well with #2 so our lives were fine. plus we knew what we were doing by that point, at least as well as we ever were going to. but when #2 was born...I don't know how we survived tbh

droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:44 (six years ago) link

Oh god, "careful!" is getting a lot of use now, as well as the related "gentle hands!" F's top three words are "no", "nono" and "nonononononono".

Madchen, Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:55 (six years ago) link

"Did you take another bite of your dinner yet?"

how's life, Thursday, 16 July 2015 21:03 (six years ago) link

Ivy's daycare teachers use the Spanish "linda" to mean "nicely," which Ivy picked up on early so we say that instead of "gentle hands." And we say that a lot... Also my mom's old favorite: People are not for hitting. People are for loving. Usually said through gritted teeth after Ivy smacks my glasses off my face.

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 16 July 2015 21:15 (six years ago) link

our perfect granddaughter, who always slept through the night even from birth and has never been the slightest bit difficult during year one, has FINALLY has her first tantrum, tried to scratch her mom with her little fingernails. we breathed a sigh of relief tbh, thank god she's not some pod person experiment and is actually human.

I have a couple of new Isolde pics as well, will post later

sleeve, Thursday, 16 July 2015 21:31 (six years ago) link

Damn straight.

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 16 July 2015 22:00 (six years ago) link

"gentle hands" wtf does that mean, like what is the situation

transparent play for gifs (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:47 (six years ago) link

pets?

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:48 (six years ago) link

ime it is another way of saying "don't scratch my fucking face, boy"

marcos, Friday, 17 July 2015 00:06 (six years ago) link

Yeah like "don't hit scratch slap pinch me/your dad/this other child/the cat."

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Friday, 17 July 2015 00:39 (six years ago) link

"What did I just say?" is another thing I say a lot.

Οὖτις, Friday, 17 July 2015 02:39 (six years ago) link

I've been trying to get a little more real about "rules" lately, especially with eating, e.g. I keep repeating "we don't get something else until we finish what we have," because she has a really annoying habit of asking for something, taking a few bites and then asking for another thing. Also trying to stop snacks in the stroller and carseat so she'll actually eat her goddamn meals instead of snacking all the time, but that one is challenging (because on the morning where she DOESN'T eat her goddamn breakfast, you feel guilty sending her to school hungry).

five six and (man alive), Friday, 17 July 2015 04:51 (six years ago) link

Also we have a grandparent who sees her every week and undermines all this

five six and (man alive), Friday, 17 July 2015 04:51 (six years ago) link

gah, that thing when your newborn is finally asleep and completely quiet and then you keep checking every twenty minutes to make sure they're alive.

five six and (man alive), Friday, 17 July 2015 05:02 (six years ago) link

:)

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 17 July 2015 05:19 (six years ago) link

double congratulations, man alive!

estela, Friday, 17 July 2015 05:28 (six years ago) link

small man still alive

wisdom be leakin out my louche douche truths (k3vin k.), Friday, 17 July 2015 05:29 (six years ago) link

So I may have missed something, but I think Nora only woke at midnight and 3am last night. It's 7am now and she's still asleep. And it's Em's birthday.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 17 July 2015 06:18 (six years ago) link

Ha, I slept straight through a 5am waking..,

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 17 July 2015 06:24 (six years ago) link

Happy birthday Em. I was just thinking I hadn't seen her over at the other place for a while. If it's any consolation, our sleep has gone back into a bad pattern after having a really good thing going for a couple of months. Hoping we find that groove again.

kinder, Friday, 17 July 2015 08:33 (six years ago) link

Haha aw! Yes everything feels very desperate and high stakes right now; I keep having meltdowns and my husband keeps being very calm and helpful. (one recent meltdown: we arrived to the lactation consultant on time but couldn’t find the office immediately. I became catatonic at the thought that we’d lose our spot; he calmly texted the office until they’d directed us appropriately.)

Lactation consultant has been v nice and somewhat helpful, but it’s overwhelming how everyone in this process gives us different advice. Also our first weighted feed suggested baby was transferring milk fine, but the more recent two weighted feeds have been less successful. At least she gained weight in the past week, though; trying to just be happy about that and not feel like I have to have the whole breastfeeding thing sorted immediately.

horseshoe, Monday, 12 July 2021 20:55 (three weeks ago) link

lmao tracer

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 12 July 2021 20:57 (three weeks ago) link

also the first time we went to the lactation consultant I was turned off by 1) anti medical bias in her comments about pediatricians and hospitals (baby was born in a hospital and I was pleased with the care I received) 2) intern who interviewed me being a white girl with dreads. i am incredibly not a hippie and probably have a pro medical bias, but I’m trying not to hold that against the lactation people.

horseshoe, Monday, 12 July 2021 20:59 (three weeks ago) link

we tried to have #1 at a midwife-led birthing center so got that attitude from both directions. when we transferred to a hospital during labor the nurses and doctors there treated us like we were raw milk drinkers, and when we discussed our vaccination plan (viz. "get vaccinations") during a post-delivery debrief the midwives acted like were were monsters.

IIRC (it was 4 years ago, i hadn't sleep for a week at the time, and ironically haven't slept for a week this week), we saw several lactation consultants (things were fine, they just kept making us see them). baby was in the NICU so the ones we saw were extremely "medical-aligned" (in that they were affiliated with the hospital and at least one was a NICU specialist)? i wouldn't go as far as to say we liked them, but they gave good advice AFAICT. could you see a lactation consultant affiliated with the hospical you delivered at?

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 12 July 2021 21:05 (three weeks ago) link

I liked the lactation consultants at the hospital we delivered at, but they’re only available for phone consultations right now because of COVID. also, they did give us different advice than the nurses in the hospital, who gave us different advice than baby’s pediatrician. And the lactation consultants we’re seeing now are giving us a fourth set of advice. I really like baby’s pediatrician and will see her in two weeks for a weight check, so if the supply/transfer stuff hasn’t improved I’m going to tell her and do whatever she suggests. Also, good lord @this: “when we discussed our vaccination plan (viz. "get vaccinations") during a post-delivery debrief the midwives acted like were were monsters.” that is outrageous. i wish everyone could just chill the fuck out.

horseshoe, Monday, 12 July 2021 21:13 (three weeks ago) link

I was really worried about breastfeeding to start with. Such a responsibility! It hurt like hell too, which wasn't in the plan/what we'd been told in all the lovely dovely classes we'd been to. The "advice"/help from various hospital staff/midwives etc varied greatly but there was one great woman who took the time to show me the best way to latch. I was ready to give up but that helped and it went fine not long after that.
When #2 came along I was expecting to be a pro at it but nope, had to start from scratch again.
Whatever is going to work best for you as a duo/as a family is best. There is nothing to say you should keep trying if it's making you miserable. But on the other hand the convenience (and so much more) is totally worth it if it does start to work.

kinder, Monday, 12 July 2021 21:57 (three weeks ago) link

xp yoga, the alt right, and southern california is a hell of a drug

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 12 July 2021 22:09 (three weeks ago) link

For our first kid my wife's milk never fully came through, but it's such a hard thing to measure (baby weighing is not an exact science and they naturally lose weight at the start anyway) there was definite scepticism in the free drop-in clinics we went to and we were encouraged not to top up with formula and just keep at it even when it was pretty clear that things weren't working out - i.e. feeding sessions would take literally hours, she didn't poo for days - our daughter that is :). After an extremely fraught week or so we decided that militant breast milk only advocates can basically die in a fire and decided to top up, which in some ways was a blessing in disguise as - apart from ensuring our daughter wasn't starving - I got to help out more including doing her bottle at bedtime, which meant I bonded much more quickly with her than I did with #2 who was exclusively breast fed.

At Easter I had a fall. I don't know whether to laugh or cry (ledge), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 08:00 (three weeks ago) link

In Beijing we had a woman come and massage my wife's breasts for an hour before the milk came, is this something that doesn't happen in the UK/US?

(Going to see this on the out of context thread aren't I?)

A viking of frowns, (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 08:04 (three weeks ago) link

That is not a service we were ever aware of!

At Easter I had a fall. I don't know whether to laugh or cry (ledge), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 08:05 (three weeks ago) link

I supplementary fed both my daughters, it was a pretty cool time late at night and also allowed my wife some much needed sleep. The breast milk militants can go fuck themselves, obviously it's good food for babies, but shaming people who are already in despair is ugly and helps nobody, especially the babies.

assert (matttkkkk), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 08:17 (three weeks ago) link

Thirded on the BF militants. Like I said, Whatever Works is the absolute #1 rule.

Madchen, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 08:42 (three weeks ago) link

I'm sure that I've written about it before on here, but just want to add this personal anecdote to the breast-feeding advice. My wife was trying to breast-feed our daughter and she was doing okay for a while with a few struggles. At some point, her doctor cleared her to go back on birth-control and in our frazzled new-parent brains, we didn't think anything of it. Immediately after she resumed birth control, her milk supply ceased and never returned. We had to switch to a full-formula diet after that. So just in case docs are still giving out that terrible piece of advice, don't listen!

peace, man, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 11:49 (three weeks ago) link

formula is good. my daughter was 5lbs 1oz and stayed at the 1st percentile for weight until 3mos when we started supplementing with formula. she immediately got swole as fuck and has been around the 50th percentile for the last 3+ years.

Whatever Works is the motherfucking motto for sure

adam, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 12:40 (three weeks ago) link

thanks, guys; it’s super-helpful to hear other people’s stories. My baby was v small at birth, too, which made feeding extra-hard for her, plus my supply is not overflowing, judging from pumping sessions. I am happy to supplement with formula, and have been for a little over a week on the advice of her pediatrician. The fact that it’s impossible to know how much she’s getting from the breast is driving me a little crazy; I hate the idea that she might be going hungry, but at least we have a plan. The lactation consultant isn’t thrilled we’re regularly supplementing with formula, but she’s not telling us to stop. She did want us to use a syringe thingy to supplement at the breast rather than bottles, but she was unable to get it to work in the office, so the chances that I’m going to figure it out on my own are nil, I’d say.

horseshoe, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 14:27 (three weeks ago) link

Scrolling to the bottom to be the voice from the heavens to say: formula is a god damn modern miracle and it is right and good to use it. You can use it to supplement your own milk production. You can use it because pumping is a punishment from the third circle of hell. You can use it because you don't fucking feel like breast feeding. Your tits, your baby, your choice.

And congratulations!!!! Baby Horseshoe!

carl agatha, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 17:58 (three weeks ago) link

I assume you named her Horseshoe?

carl agatha, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 17:58 (three weeks ago) link

Okay I've read and caught up.

1) anti medical bias in her comments about pediatricians and hospitals (baby was born in a hospital and I was pleased with the care I received) 2) intern who interviewed me being a white girl with dreads.

I'm not sure which is grosser.

My body was very bad at making and carrying a baby to term, but once we managed to get the baby out into the open air? It's like making milk was what I was born to do. The nurses at the NICU stopped accepting my milk deliveries because my tiny baby could not eat everything I was pumping, and they ran out of room in the fridge. But because my nips were like high pressure fire hoses and Ivy was a wee preemie, to avoid waterboarding her I had to use a nipple shield and damned if I didn't catch some shit for that from the militant breastfeeders. Like, I could shoot milk up her nose? Or I could feed her. WTF. Also I still supplemented with formula occasionally because sometimes I just didn't want to fucking deal with it all (and we didn't have room in our freezer for all the damn pumped milk either). And there was the whole "She's just using you as a pacifier" people, which always annoyed me because that's fine? I would like to comfort my child?

Anyway my only advice born of experience is that sleep training is probably a good idea at some point unless you don't mind having a seven year old who won't sleep without you and who I can only assume will still be sleeping with me until she goes to college.

carl agatha, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 18:21 (three weeks ago) link

Maybe if I hadn't used a nipple shield she would be happily sleeping in her own bed now.

carl agatha, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 18:22 (three weeks ago) link

My wife works in maternity and is a breastfeeding specialist and she is literally next to me saying 'ffs, do what works for you!' She struggled, particularly with our second baby, and still felt the pressure so it is hard to ignore the bullshit.

Congratulations on your baby!

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 18:32 (three weeks ago) link

thank you, carl! she’s a real beaut!

lol I can’t even believe anyone gets enough in the weeds of breastfeeding militancy to hate on nipple shields—like, why? it starts to just seem like control for the sake of control. Or unthinking rejection of anything that’s not “natural,” which, given the amount of scientific intervention we needed to even get pregnant in the first place, is kind of a non-starter to me. in general, the most intense evangelists for breastfeeding (which I understand the benefits of and would like to continue to do!) strike me as slightly out of touch with reality. my lactation consultant keeps telling me I shouldn’t be feeling any pain while breastfeeding, for example, and I just want to be like, well sorry I’m doing it wrong, but I am!

We do plan on sleep training her around 6 months, although I can already tell I’m going to be worthless at that task and my husband will have to be the stickler.

horseshoe, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 18:53 (three weeks ago) link

thanks, guys! we’re sort of struggling with feeding right now. Baby was slow to gain weight, but we had a good gain at the pediatrician’s today. I am *anxious* about my milk supply and her ability to transfer it. right now we’re supplementing with formula…part of me wants a voice from the heavens to tell me it’s okay to stop trying with breastfeeding, but I’m going to see how it goes up until she hits six weeks and reevaluate. if anyone had similar experiences, i’d love to hear how it went. (if people can even remember the first six weeks!)

― horseshoe, Monday, July 12, 2021 4:10 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

hi this is very similar to our experience (baby was born in march). she dropped too much weight after leaving the hospital, my wife was struggling with feeding, and we began supplementing with formula before switching to formula only at maybe 6 weeks. breastfeeding was making her miserable and adding a lot of stress and tiredness that just didn't see necessary for the supposed benefits. the switch was great tbh, we can regulate and track all her feeding and i can help out a lot more with feeding. we are still tired and stressed but generally speaking it's not because of feeding.

we did one LC appointment and i was really, really not a fan. i'm hesitant to say too much from my position as a dad but broadly i agree w/anti-medical bias and i think they take an oppositional position to pediatricians in part because if they didn't, it would be hard for them to justify their existence. (sorry to chinaski's wife and anyone else in this field lol)

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 18:54 (three weeks ago) link

Aw, congrats on your baby, cad!!! glad the switch to formula is making your family’s experience better!

I am willing to believe there are reasonable LCs out there, but the place I’m going is extremely woo woo and power of positive thinking-y, and it’s just a bad match for me.

horseshoe, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 19:01 (three weeks ago) link

congrats to you too btw! very happy for you.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 19:03 (three weeks ago) link

my lactation consultant keeps telling me I shouldn’t be feeling any pain while breastfeeding, for example, and I just want to be like, well sorry I’m doing it wrong, but I am!

Oh, this has just reminded me that I had *intense* pain at the start of every feed for several weeks after birth. I kept hearing ‘if it hurts you’re doing it wrong’ from everyone but it turned out it was nothing to do with the latch, it was something to do with the let-down. I had to google it myself to find out, despite having on-ward BF specialists for the first six days (I was kept in with high blood pressure so they were on hand to get me started). Anyway, I would grit my teeth through the first couple of minutes until the pain went away, and then after month or so it didn’t hurt at all. Then there was no stopping us. Our son refused to take a bottle, despite us wasting £££ every single type of bottle on the market and that was a major pita for me, I can tell you.

Madchen, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 19:05 (three weeks ago) link

The first thing I was going to write in my previous post was "everyone said 'if it hurts you're doing it wrong'" which is LIES, lies I tell you. The latch improved but yup it still hurt enough to nearly make me give up, both times. No-one mentioned nipple shields even once with my first when I was struggling, then mentioned while I was still in hospital with my second (with all the serious-face caveats of course) and they made ALL the difference.

Also, I tell everyone I can about D-MER because it's fascinating and also something no-one in any of my many breastfeeding classes/advice sessions etc ever ever mentioned (until I googled 'desperate depressed feeling when breastfeeding' - it's a really physical thing, let-down causes this very specific, fairly brief, but significant dysphoria)

I think one of the things I hated most about being a new parent is the sheer amount of bullshit, old wives' tales and general confused ideas etc that people happily feed each other over and over, and when you look into it it's unproven or just made up or really unhelpful (one of mine refused to breastfeed after about 10 months, and the amount of crap I heard about that made me really anxious).

I'd second advice to be 'consistent' with naps/sleep once you start getting into a regular nap schedule etc. Looking around at my friends there seems to be some correlation with that and having good bedtimes/sleep as a toddler/older child. But, it could be that they are just more resistant to attempts to regulate their sleep!

Babies' sleep changes so much in the first year that personally I don't think formal 'sleep training' before about 12 months would have been beneficial for us but we (well, spouse) did it with one of them around 13 months (I think there is even a thread on here?) and I've never looked back. Obviously depends on your own needs too e.g. going back to work.

kinder, Tuesday, 13 July 2021 22:26 (three weeks ago) link

I liked the lactation consultants at the hospital we delivered at, but they’re only available for phone consultations right now because of COVID. also, they did give us different advice than the nurses in the hospital, who gave us different advice than baby’s pediatrician. And the lactation consultants we’re seeing now are giving us a fourth set of advice.

just want to say this is really resonant as well. we were in the hospital for 5 days due to c-section and they had multiple lactation consultants roaming in and out, they were all nice but all said completely unrelated/contradictory things. the pediatrician who was on rotation toward the end of our stay was supremely unhelpful as well, suggesting a breast + formula by wire approach that we ignored because it was way too many moving parts for new parents + hungry newborn.

a couple weeks in we went to a different lactation consultant who suggested that our baby may need a tongue-tie procedure (which i'm extremely dubious of) while noting that pediatricians don't do that right now and we would need to go to a dentist or something. she also did a gotcha thing to me where she was like "show me how you hold the baby for feeding" and then told me all the things i was doing wrong, maybe this is personal but i loathe that style of instruction--i'm a rational adult, if you give me information i know what to do with it. in looking through her social and stuff i just found that in this case it was lactation consulting for well-off suburban moms for whom breastfeeding is a badge of honor/pride and that does not describe our family or what we're about.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 02:48 (three weeks ago) link

wow fuck all that noise

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 07:52 (three weeks ago) link

lol we also had a lactation consultant trying to talk about the tongue tie! but the dr said nah

just sayin, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 10:50 (three weeks ago) link

didn't mean to be at all disparaging re sleep training btw, it was more intended as "baby sleep be crazy" and great job if you can tackle it!

kinder, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 11:45 (three weeks ago) link

We had the tongue tie done as the lac consultant said it was borderline and we were at the extremely stressed try anything stage. Wasn't that traumatic (easy for me to say!) but as the main issue was milk supply it didn't really make any difference.

At Easter I had a fall. I don't know whether to laugh or cry (ledge), Wednesday, 14 July 2021 12:21 (three weeks ago) link

We didn't do sleep training and now she's five I've just graduated from sharing a bed to my own bed on the floor next to hers :)

At Easter I had a fall. I don't know whether to laugh or cry (ledge), Wednesday, 14 July 2021 12:24 (three weeks ago) link

Haha congrats!

We didn’t do sleep training but stayed in his room until he fell asleep up, then returned to ‘cuddle it out’ if he cried in the night. It was completely exhausting and I thought it would never end - there were some pretty desperate times. But since about age four he has mostly gone to sleep pretty quickly in his own bed after we’ve left the room, and he rarely wakes. The ongoing downside is that on the rare occasions we have needed to co-sleep, he has found it impossibly exciting and we’ve all had a terrible night.

One very helpful thing was Stet compiling a playlist of bedtime music, and then playing that every night after lights out, so he’d associate those songs with falling asleep. And it worked! We even had a CD of it in the car.

Madchen, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 12:33 (three weeks ago) link

Adoption meant my son was on formula right from the start so we skipped all lactation related drama and had a very egalitarian care and feeding regimen. But we still ended up having to try a bunch of formulas to minimize his colic and ended up with the ultra specialized shit that cost us $300 a month purchased in bulk online and endless bottle washing (which were also insanely complex multi-part contraptions to minimize colic) and keeping track of how long half finished bottles had sat around before we had to dump it out etc.

But this all stopped five years ago and I never had to think about it again. And I’d be shocked if there’s any demonstrable difference between him and any breastfed kids

joygoat, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 14:27 (three weeks ago) link

The whole tongue tie thing is…interesting. The LC in the hospital diagnosed our baby with it, and the LC I’ve been seeing post delivery confirmed that diagnosis. Meanwhile, the ped at her one week appointment (not her regular doctor, but another in the practice) didn’t see conclusive evidence of one. At her two week appt, her regular ped (who rules!) said that lactation consultants always diagnose tongue tie, and she referred us to a pediatric ENT specialist whom she trusts. She was like, he will be honest and tell you whether she has one for real. The pediatric ENT ruled also and took the time to explain what tongue tie was and why our daughter doesn’t have it; he showed us pictures and everything. I don’t think the LCs had any malign intentions, but it does seem like they overdiagnose tongue tie. It’s maybe symptomatic of making breastfeeding the ultimate goal of patient care rather than one of many worthy goals to balance. The harm would probably have been negligible had we taken the baby to a pediatric dentist to snip her tongue (I get the impression dentists are quicker to do this than ENTs), but giving the baby an unnecessary procedure on the off chance it might improve her ability to feed doesn’t really fit my idea of responsible care.

horseshoe, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 14:52 (three weeks ago) link

The whole tongue tie thing is…interesting. The LC in the hospital diagnosed our baby with it, and the LC I’ve been seeing post delivery confirmed that diagnosis. Meanwhile, the ped at her one week appointment (not her regular doctor, but another in the practice) didn’t see conclusive evidence of one. At her two week appt, her regular ped (who rules!) said that lactation consultants always diagnose tongue tie, and she referred us to a pediatric ENT specialist whom she trusts. She was like, he will be honest and tell you whether she has one for real. The pediatric ENT ruled also and took the time to explain what tongue tie was and why our daughter doesn’t have it; he showed us pictures and everything. I don’t think the LCs had any malign intentions, but it does seem like they overdiagnose tongue tie. It’s maybe symptomatic of making breastfeeding the ultimate goal of patient care rather than one of many worthy goals to balance. The harm would probably have been negligible had we taken the baby to a pediatric dentist to snip her tongue (I get the impression dentists are quicker to do this than ENTs), but giving the baby an unnecessary procedure on the off chance it might improve her ability to feed doesn’t really fit my idea of responsible care.

horseshoe, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 14:52 (three weeks ago) link

ugh sorry for the double post!

horseshoe, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 14:52 (three weeks ago) link

slightly off topic but are there any good 'having a baby' podcasts? i know there are millions of parenting podcasts but like an actual good one that cuts through the misinformation and weighs up different points of view (and makes you feel less crazy??)

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 15:16 (three weeks ago) link

interesting, horseshoe - I'm in the UK, didn't have any tongue tie issues but so many of my friends had it diagnosed I started to wonder what was going on. one had to go back for a second snip!

kinder, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 16:10 (three weeks ago) link

100% of my kids were diagnosed with tongue tie by LCs after birth despite no difficulty feeding. we didn't do anything because our pediatrician told us we didn't need to. i don't think she even bothered to confirm the diagnosis beyond a glance and "yeah sure", and may have been on the verge of rolling her eyes when we told her what the LC had said about the first one. so yeah it seems like it's overdiagnosed.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 14 July 2021 16:27 (three weeks ago) link

yeah i did not think it was appropriate for the LC to be suggesting a procedure for my baby given their qualifications. amazing to hear how common this apparently is.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 16:49 (three weeks ago) link

tbf in our case neither of the LCs suggest doing anything. they just seem to have "baby's a bit tongue tied" in their mad libs library.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 14 July 2021 16:55 (three weeks ago) link

We also had a LC telling us our kid was tongue tied and we needed to do something about it. We didn’t go back to that person (for that and other reasons). I had no idea this was such a thing with LC’s.

Whatever works is good. The first few months of having a baby was the most draining chaos I’ve experienced, and it was of course much worse for my wife. It will get better!!!

Cow_Art, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 17:40 (three weeks ago) link

as an onlooker the misinformation on tongue tie is so crazy!

i would hate to know how many families pony up for the operation based on advice from an ill informed “expert”

i am outraged for all of you

(congrats on the babby, horseshoe!! <3)

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 14 July 2021 19:47 (three weeks ago) link

thx VG!!!

horseshoe, Thursday, 15 July 2021 15:49 (two weeks ago) link

Here's my woo woo anti-science story: we had a planned c-section at 36 weeks because of vasa previa, which is when the umbilical cord is between the baby's head and the cervix such that if you go into labor and there's any pressure on the cord, it will rupture and very bad things will happen. For me this was diagnosed at the 5 month ultrasound. So I panicked (I panicked so hard they ended up hospitalizing me overnight to pee in a jug because my blood pressure went through the roof) and began web searching immediately because I hate myself, I guess? I came across a message board for doulas/midwives/LCs and read a post where they were debating the merits of the five-month ultrasound. Someone pointed out that this is the scan where they catch vasa previa, so she recommends her clients get at least this one ultrasound. And the consensus response was that if some babies/mothers died from an undiagnosed complication, that was a small price to pay for staying true to the ideals of natural birth and allowing women to rely on their intuition alone. So that was cool.

carl agatha, Thursday, 15 July 2021 17:10 (two weeks ago) link

Luckily nobody said that shit to my face, but that was roughly when I decided to fully embrace the medical model of childbirth (sorry Rickie Lake) and do what needed to be done to get my child safely into this world.

carl agatha, Thursday, 15 July 2021 17:12 (two weeks ago) link

ohhhhhh my lord. First of all, I’m sorry you went through that: vasa previa is scary! second of all, I know medicine has its pitfalls when it comes to prenatal care and delivery, particularly for black women, but whenever I hear people waxing poetic about natural childbirth, all I can think of is the long history of women dying in childbirth in large numbers. I’ll take medicine, thanks.

Lol the LC I’ve been seeing took an inventory of my labor and delivery experience at our first appointment, and both she and the dreadlocked white intern couldn’t hide a Look when I related that I had an epidural. I wanted to be like, no regrets; the epidural was magical!!! Because it was.

horseshoe, Thursday, 15 July 2021 17:49 (two weeks ago) link

jesus carl, some people are lunatics. I've always been pro-hospital, medicalise anything I need, please!

kinder, Thursday, 15 July 2021 17:55 (two weeks ago) link

I played my boys quincy’s “dude” and sly stone’s GH today. 😊

calstars, Saturday, 24 July 2021 23:29 (one week ago) link


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