― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 28 January 2006 03:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― Nemo (JND), Saturday, 28 January 2006 04:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Brad Laner (Brad Laner), Saturday, 28 January 2006 04:08 (eighteen years ago) link
It really is interesting how quickly children grasp the power of "no!"
― Nemo (JND), Saturday, 28 January 2006 04:13 (eighteen years ago) link
:-) :-) Please to tell yer lovely lady wife N. hi from me, and that Julian is a treat.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 January 2006 06:43 (eighteen years ago) link
Oh definitely. Especially when our daughter poops and pees just after putting off the dirty diaper. She's done this twice now. I'm used to the peeing - she does it at least once a day when I change diapers - but simultaneously squirting a bit of poopoo made me laugh. I couldn't help it, I just found it so extremely funny.
Recovery from my delivery has been relatively good but I do have some minor problems: pain in my pelvic bone is the worst. It really hinders me in carrying her. It's not impossible, just a bit harder to carry her around. :-( I am starting kine on monday. Hopefully it'll pass.
― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Saturday, 28 January 2006 07:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 28 January 2006 08:02 (eighteen years ago) link
http://static.flickr.com/26/58195020_77a4078a3a.jpg
(The little angel sensed I was going to gush about her on that internet again last night and so wailed for a good 40min; she always seems doubly cute when she finally settles down...)
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 28 January 2006 14:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― youn, Saturday, 28 January 2006 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 January 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Douglas (Douglas), Saturday, 28 January 2006 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 January 2006 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 28 January 2006 18:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― Douglas (Douglas), Saturday, 28 January 2006 18:51 (eighteen years ago) link
Can we talk about raising boys vs raising girls? I'm an only child and I have no experience with little boys. Being a girl is hard but often I think it's harder to be a boy, you're just expected to be so goddamn tough all the time. I'm looking forward to parenting a boy and would love to hear some boy stories.
― teeny (teeny), Sunday, 29 January 2006 23:47 (eighteen years ago) link
The main reason I was glad to have a girl was because of the socialization differences Teeny mentions above — "I think it's harder to be a boy, you're just expected to be so goddamn tough all the time." I was not so goddamn tough all the time, and bullied pretty thoroughly especially in high school, and didn't want my child to have to go through that exact experience. (I know adolescent girls have their own claws-out issues, and I've purposefully avoided watching Heathers.) I just thought then, and still think, that it's easier for girls to be imbued with a love of learning than boys, and if there was anywhere my wife and I could give our kid a leg up, it was in education. We weren't going to give it perfect cheekbones and the metabolism of a rabbit, and we weren't going to give it a flawless 18-foot jump shot or 120-mph first serve. I think I had a vague notion in my mind that the gender gap in pay scales would be narrower by the time she started looking for a job, and it is, a little bit, though the emphasis on equal pay for equal work kind of goes by the wayside with so many fucking Republicans and Xtians running things.
But basically, with parents who valued education over most other concerns, it seemed natural to prefer a girl, so I'm glad we got our wish. I don't think I'm writing this with 20/20 hindsight, but you never know.
Interestingly, my distinct uneasiness in 1988 at the prospect of socializing and educating a boy has borne itself out in U.S. society to the point where Newsweek a couple of weeks ago had a cover story about the gender gap in education.
― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 30 January 2006 02:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rebekkah (burntbrat), Monday, 30 January 2006 02:58 (eighteen years ago) link
I believe it was good for our marriage and I'm absolutely convinced it was critically important to our daughter's development. She saw no commercial television, therefore no commercials. She was an absolute joy to take shopping because she never "had to have" anything. She also didn't develop any dubious role models from MTV or even cartoon or children's networks.
Our rule was that if she wanted to watch a video, she had to watch the video. No putting a video on and then ignoring it in the background while doing something else. If she got tired of watching, she turned it off. I'm convinced that helped her develop an attention span longer than five minutes.
When she was five, we got TV back, but by then the habits were broken in our case and never set in hers. TV became a treat that she earned by doing chores, etc. Thirty minutes at a time.
She's 17 now, and we never went through any problems with her wanting to grow up too fast. I'm convinced that the best things we did for her - and we did then all by accident or lucky instinct - were:
* No TV for at least five years. Eight is probably better.* No sodas, tea or other caffeinated drinks. Ever.* We read to her every single night of her life from the time she was about two months old until she starting reading for herself. We took turns, and usually all three sat together for the reading out loud.
I'm not saying how we raised our kiddo was perfect, nor were we perfect at it. She was a stubborn little cuss, and still is sometimes. She'd argue with a fencepost. But she's never suffered from a cripplingly low self-esteem the way I did, from comparing myself to impossible people all the time, and she never tried to rush her own growing up.
And in my book, that's two gifts you can give your kids that nobody can take from them, ever.
Sorry for burbling on. And please don't take this as boastfulness or ego. It's simply lessons learned that I'd love to share.
― Hey Jude, Monday, 30 January 2006 03:27 (eighteen years ago) link
but as for boys/girls, my wife really wanted a daughter and was initially disappointed when we found out he was a he. that didn't last long, tho. especially once she realized she could still dress him up in cute outfits (at least until he gets old enough to protest). i had no preference, but i love him to pieces and wouldn't change him in any way. if we have another, it'd be nice to have a girl i guess -- i think it'd be interesting to have one of each. plus having grown up with a sister, i think it's nice for siblings to have the other gender around.
i've heard other people say what rebekkah says, that girls are more work in some ways. it wasn't true in my family, but that's cuz my little brother kind of threw off the curve...
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 30 January 2006 03:46 (eighteen years ago) link
no soda ever. no juice at home--the only time they get that is at birthday parties where I have no control. they drink white milk or water and they are totally happy with it. Juice is nutritionally worthless for the most part--don't be swayed by seeing "100% vitamin C".
Our kids never get dessert if they don't eat all of their dinner. Ever.
― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 30 January 2006 04:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 30 January 2006 04:19 (eighteen years ago) link
i don't know. i'm sure there will be a lot of fights and adjustments along the way. on the one hand, i was always kind of proud of having been raised in a severely tv-restricted environment. on the other hand, i have lots of friends who grew up drenched in television, and it doesn't seem to have hurt them. part of me thinks, he's going to be living in a media-saturated world, might as well get used to it. but then, i also want to control what he takes in, at least to some degree.
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 30 January 2006 04:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― dancing chicken (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 30 January 2006 04:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― dancing chicken (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 30 January 2006 04:53 (eighteen years ago) link
Re television: I could watch as much telly as I wanted. Thank god, or else my English would be crap. (I learned the language from watching tons of subtitled films and also BBC.) So I'm not that against television. That said, knowing what I sometimes as a kid (hardcore porn,...), I'll try to keep her away from the bad stuff. ;-)
― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 30 January 2006 08:08 (eighteen years ago) link
this is pretty much what we did. I still like to hover around while he watches, which is strictly limited, mostly to answer questions.
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 30 January 2006 11:20 (eighteen years ago) link
TV: I grew up in a limited access household--b&w broadcast channels from maybe age 4 onward, got cable around age 9, never a big tv addict--and would really like to throw the box out now that the kid's around. I say that but I don't know if it's really true because my husband likes tv so much I'm not going to have the choice. And of course I watch a ton of TV during the day because it's nice to have background noise and it's hard to do anything else and nurse at the same time. We're setting up our house with a tiny tv room and a big family room though, with places to play and read--I think this is good, keep the tv away from gathering areas. I'm glad we have Tivo to restrict access and cut out commercials when the time comes to introduce the kid to tv. And I do have fond memories of watching the twilight zone and Cosmos with my dad, there's good things about tv too.
― teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Panther Pink (Pinkpanther), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:31 (eighteen years ago) link
Sending her to nursery makes us unhappy. She doesn't seem to mind, but we do. I don't think it will make her sociable, she is only 10 months old and takes no notice of the other kids (something I secretly find admirable). Plus she is always ill. If she carries on like this she will grow up to be like Morrissey. Before nursery she was vigorous and strong, a state she reverts to at weekends.
Photo:
ihttp://www.flickr.com/photos/25214957@N00/91393888/
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:48 (eighteen years ago) link
http://static.flickr.com/19/91397533_c063cc53f3.jpg
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:50 (eighteen years ago) link
xpost!
We have the telly on a lot and Ava seems less interested now that packing boxes prevent her from licking/slapping the screen. We haven't thought so far ahead as to imagine what damage we may be doing to her with TV. She dances to all the adverts and I'm not taking that away from her.
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm very weary of banning a TV (or any other media). You have to educate a person (child or adult) on how to watch television. The box is not evil, it's how you handle it. This is of course easier said than done, but I am not anti-TV (nor internet) at all.
And, yes, that's how I see it as well, Teeny: you can't spoil a baby. From six months onwards they do start to make connections and then I'll try to make sure she doesn't see the connection. I don't want a spoilt child but I don't want an unloved baby either. :-) I realize that dependency can be a problem: as a child I was very dependant on my mom and they really had to cut the umbilical cord later on: I would go absolutely mental if my mom left me alone (with my dad or anyone else). When I was about three, my dad told my mom to leave so he could cut the cord. It was painful but very necessary. :-)
― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 30 January 2006 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link
Incidentally, Michael, you might want to have a word with Edith because she applauded Chelsea's goal the other day. Obviously she didn't get any encouragement from me.
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 14:47 (eighteen years ago) link
ihttp://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=91393888&size=m
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 14:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 14:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 30 January 2006 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link
Just wanted to clarify. I guess I came on a little strong because this is something I feel strongly about, but I'm not totally anti-TV. Truth is, I'm anti-commercials. That's where the worst damage is done. That's where our children are brainwashed into becoming mindless consumers and also fed frustratingly damaging images of what and how they "should" be and "should" want. As adorable as the image of a cute kiddo dancing to commercials is, you have to ask yourself what the child is internalizing.
Ask a TV-watching child to quote ads to you sometime, and prepare to be alarmed. Hell, it happened to us, too. I can still remember commercial jingles from the 1960s when I can't begin to haul up the Preamble to the Constitution any more.
And this isn't accidental. That's what commercials are for. They're *made* to do that, and they do it very effectively. If our boys think it's the coolest thing to be sullen dullard skate punks, where are they getting that image? If our girls think they need to be sleek amd made-up and sexy at age nine, where are they getting that idea? From us?
Television programs are sometimes nearly as bad, but the commercials are the real problem. And in case you think I'm just a ranting old lady, I used to teach advertising writing at the university level. Eventually, my soul couldn't take it any more.
Anyway, TiVo, from what I understand, can take the commercial problem away, which is awesome. Once we allowed our daughter and ourselves to start watching TV again, she wasn't allowed to watch Saturday morning TV at all. Or any commercial television aimed specifically at children. That crap exists ONLY to create desire and promote consumerism.
Buy or rent videotapes or DVDs instead.
Oh god, I've ranted again. Let me just crawl off into a corner and shut the hell up.
― Hey Jude, Monday, 30 January 2006 17:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 30 January 2006 17:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 17:49 (eighteen years ago) link
ditto. babies need to be held. plus, they're so much fun to hold. to me, spoiling a kid is refusing to set limits (on toys, food, tv, whatever). i don't think anyone's ever been spoiled by an excess of hugging.
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 30 January 2006 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link
At 11 months? Beyond "this has got a good beat"? But, yes, I fear she may have already made up her mind about which home contents insurance provider to patronise and which loo roll is the softest. Fortunately, British commercial breaks are full of plain-looking people struggling to secure loans on bad credit, so, in terms of aspirational images...er, yes I see your point.
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link
And yes, we did watch ST:TNG. *grin* Which is probably the entire reason why the kiddo is a geek.
― Hey Jude, Monday, 30 January 2006 19:54 (eighteen years ago) link
My wife was raised like your husband Teeny. And she's pretty brilliant as well. But I think in the long run you want to play the odds and assume that not everyone will be as lucky as our spouses are. Not to mention that sound eating habits have obvious rewards.
― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 30 January 2006 21:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 08:21 (eighteen years ago) link
Here's Bill, he's two. His favourite thing ever is Thomas the Tank Engine. Also loves drawing, squirrels, Postman Pat and walking like a robot.
― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 11:12 (eighteen years ago) link