ILX Parenting 5: I'm a big kid now

plus babies dont care abt complex flavors even a little bit initially (says the dude that blindly bought some backup organic pouch food and only later realized it was basil/kale/greek yogurt/etc. smells like v8, tastes like...nothing at all really)

first time around we pureed banana and avocado and did the rice cereal thing etc. 2nd time around = fuck it kid yr eating what everybody else is eating. has worked out pretty well so far tbh. "baby-led weaning"

I mean obviously we're not going to give him things he can't chew etc but once he had a couple teeth he was good to go on most foods

Different stuff I've been reading says that the current thinking is to start a baby off with something that has more nutritional value than rice cereal, since breast milk already has a lot of carbs so there's not much of a nutritional gain there. We aren't going to start with solids until after her six month pediatrician appointment (since she was born at not quite 35 weeks, she may not be ready yet although she was making chewing motions while watching me eat the other day) so we'll see what her doc says, too.

It's good to know what other people did so I can calibrate my "hippy nonsense meter" when it comes to various parenting websites, although one of the "no rice cereal" sources is Babycenter.

One thing I know for sure. Her first food should not be tacos.

Tamales.

Rice cereal tamales.

Are you still on an airplane?

Ha no

lemme tell you my kid's favorite food now approaching age 3 are tacos and he even likes chips and salsa. he wanted to try my margarita the other day and despite his recent unwillingness to nap i told him no.

our boy is down w quesedillas. and of course beans. haven't tried tamales yet.

when #1 was three we went to a mexican restaurant and she ordered a sour cream taco all by herself. yes, just sour cream. aside from the vileness of what she wanted we were thrilled that she was happy to talk directly to the wait staff.

now she's a teen and can be shy about that again. well, at least no more sour cream tacos

The rice cereal thing just kind of goes against common sense for me. It's not filling, it has no nutritional value, and it has no flavor. At risk of setting off hippie nonsense meters, it sounds like something dreamed up by the cereal industry. I've actually banned cereal from my household altogether, partly because it's something that I ate too much of throughout my childhood (during which I was fat) and still can't really stop myself from eating. It seems like a really easy and unfilling way to pack on calories.

We did loosely follow the "one food at a time" thing but moved her to what we were eating pretty quickly. The only food that seemed to give her an adverse reaction for some reason was spinach -- her face would always break out in a rash when she ate it.

K is now fond of saying "What we have to eat?" in this very earnest, almost adult-sounding tone that is hard to resist. She has definitely learned early that cute + polite = getting what you want more of the time.

It's not filling, it has no nutritional value, and it has no flavor.

as i understand it, during babies' first few months of eating solid foods (ages 6-9 mos approx), they do not need solid foods for their nutritional value. they are still getting everything they need from breastmilk, they don't actually "need" solid foods that early. the point is to prepare them to eat solids so that they are able to when they actually do need them. rice cereal is recommended as a first food, i believe, because it's easy to digest and has essentially no risk of provoking an allergic reaction.

other foods could fit that bill of course

like tacos, for example

I could never be a house guest in the Hurting 2 home. No cereal? That's like 25% of my diet.

there's not a lot of cereal in our house generally but #2 is at the age where having something small and bitesize that he can both play with (pour into bowls, stir around etc) and eat by the handful is a plus.

rice cereal is recommended as a first food, i believe, because it's easy to digest and has essentially no risk of provoking an allergic reaction.

Yeah, that's it. But the same things I've been reading about foregoing rice cereal are also saying that it's better to exposure kids to potentially allergenic foods early (sort of how kids with pets are less likely to have animal allergies when they are older (I often remind myself this when I pull cat hairs out of Ivy's mouth)), and that the old rules of no eggs or fish or nuts before one year are also no longer necessary.

re: hippie nonsense, I have to be vigilant because I am susceptible to certain strains of hippie nonsense. See last week when I stayed up an hour trying to find a definitive answer to the question of whether baby wipes are actually poisonous. I couldn't find anything that looked particularly rooted in scientific inquiry and the thought of washing piles of poopy cloth squares sounded exhausting so I went ahead and order the cheap as hell carton of Kirkland wipes from diapers.com.

are also saying that it's better to exposure kids to potentially allergenic foods early (sort of how kids with pets are less likely to have animal allergies when they are older

what i've heard as well. i remember hearing a couple years ago that peanut allergies are pretty much unknown in israel, and that the theory is bc Bamba is a popular snack for young children there.

A lot of the info on solid foods is here - http://kellymom.com/category/nutrition/starting-solids/

the relevant study for reference: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19000582

Early consumption of peanuts in infancy is associated with a low prevalence of peanut allergy.

Du Toit G1, Katz Y, Sasieni P, Mesher D, Maleki SJ, Fisher HR, Fox AT, Turcanu V, Amir T, Zadik-Mnuhin G, Cohen A, Livne I, Lack G.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Despite guidelines recommending avoidance of peanuts during infancy in the United Kingdom (UK), Australia, and, until recently, North America, peanut allergy (PA) continues to increase in these countries.

OBJECTIVE:
We sought to determine the prevalence of PA among Israeli and UK Jewish children and evaluate the relationship of PA to infant and maternal peanut consumption.

METHODS:
A clinically validated questionnaire determined the prevalence of PA among Jewish schoolchildren (5171 in the UK and 5615 in Israel). A second validated questionnaire assessed peanut consumption and weaning in Jewish infants (77 in the UK and 99 in Israel).

RESULTS:
The prevalence of PA in the UK was 1.85%, and the prevalence in Israel was 0.17% (P < .001). Despite accounting for atopy, the adjusted risk ratio for PA between countries was 9.8 (95% CI, 3.1-30.5) in primary school children. Peanut is introduced earlier and is eaten more frequently and in larger quantities in Israel than in the UK. The median monthly consumption of peanut in Israeli infants aged 8 to 14 months is 7.1 g of peanut protein, and it is 0 g in the UK (P < .001). The median number of times peanut is eaten per month was 8 in Israel and 0 in the UK (P < .0001).

CONCLUSIONS:
We demonstrate that Jewish children in the UK have a prevalence of PA that is 10-fold higher than that of Jewish children in Israel. This difference is not accounted for by differences in atopy, social class, genetic background, or peanut allergenicity. Israeli infants consume peanut in high quantities in the first year of life, whereas UK infants avoid peanuts. These findings raise the question of whether early introduction of peanut during infancy, rather than avoidance, will prevent the development of PA.

The use of "peanut" in the singular in that abstract is delighting me. Maybe that's how you're supposed to say it, like how fashion people always refer to "a pant" instead of "pants" but in this case, I like it ("pant" makes me IA).

Oh, I don't want to start a row or anything about what people feed their kids. It seems super personal and different things are going to work for different parents and different babies!!! Rice cereal, bananas, tacos... it's all good IMO. I was just really curious about what folks here chose to do, particularly since you all seem much smarter/more thoughtful than your average baby-centric message board poster.

FWIW I actually was briefly taken in by the "modified vaccine schedule" thing before the doctor assured me there was no evidence that it was beneficial (although she regularly implemented it for parents who wanted it). It's scary as fuck to have the job of keeping a little person alive sometimes, so I get why people have all kinds of unsubstantiated fears about products and food. I have had mild panics putting K in the bath and then briefly thinking that maybe the tub wasn't rinsed well enough after it was bleached and that I am now bleaching my child.

yea, we had some of those fears re: vaccines that were really just compounded by our reaction to the fragility of a newborn. they are just so small and vulnerable. i think once J got some fat on him we basically just went on the standard vaccine schedule. though we have skipped whatever hepatitis vaccine that prevents the sexually transmitted type, we can wait on that one till he's older.

UK used to advise against eating peanut in pregnancy but not any more. I guess it still stands for infancy tho.

I am just over here identifying strongly with the fear of not rinsing the tub well enough and other similar things.

This week my child discovered the joys of peeing in nature.

In the UK it's no peanuts before six months now (the NHS recommends no solids before six months anyway). Breast feeders eating peanuts is fine too.

the peanut/allergies thing fascinates me cuz I have (of course) interacted with adults w/kids with severe allergies and I'm like... how do you get over that? are you just going to avoid mustard/peanuts/whatever for the rest of their lives? I guess I don't understand the mechanism involved wherein exposure to allergens = less allergies.

What were the first solid foods those of you with solid food eating babies tried?

I guess rice cereal is passé so I was thinking I'd try avocado, cut it up into squares and let her cram them in her mouth herself.

― carl agatha, Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:08 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

we didnt do rice cereal ever, went right for avocado (mashed at first). banana and sweet potato were early foods. we did exclusive breastfeeding first 6 months, few solids from 6-9 months. didnt do a lot of purees, but we never needed to...the boy had teeth at 4 months...year later and he's got nearly a full set of chompers.

the peanut/allergies thing fascinates me cuz I have (of course) interacted with adults w/kids with severe allergies and I'm like... how do you get over that? are you just going to avoid mustard/peanuts/whatever for the rest of their lives? I guess I don't understand the mechanism involved wherein exposure to allergens = less allergies.

It's weird--I'm 38, and was always the freak kid growing up as I'm anaphylactically allergic to all nuts, and nobody had heard of such a thing. Now every second kid seems to have it. And yeah, you just have to avoid that nuts/pesto/most cakes/Thai restaurants the rest of your life.

We had Ella tested early in case she had inherited it, but the allergist was super reassuring. Apparently even in identical twins there's a really small chance of BOTh being allergic--the genetic factor is weak or non-existent--and he had us giving her little tiny bits of various allergenic foods from 6 months+, with no ill effects. So she can eat everything with no squinting at ingredient lists the rest of her life.

unless she becomes vegan later

lol last night my son took a shit in the bath, it was the first time he's done it. he reached back and picked it up, held it in his hand, and started crying. it occured to me that it was probably the first time he's really ever seen his own shit! all those diapers. he didn't really know what it was and he just got freaked out.

oh yeah that is a big deal "WHAT IS THIS COMING OUT OF MY BODY!", not hard to see how that would be alarming

however, kid I was referring to in the other thread was like 6

Haha, that's brilliant Marcos. A story to be trotted out on family occasions for decades to come.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-pros-and-cons-of-breastfeeding,36008/

^ making me LOL

yes, that was great

wow, this is fucked:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/17/us/among-experts-scrutiny-of-attention-disorder-diagnoses-in-2-and-3-year-olds.html

Pathologizing behavior in low income children... ;lakdsjf;alkjds;lkjas

wow fuck.

My wife is a sped teacher in a pretty low-income elementary school so she gets a lot of kids with an ADHD diagnosis. OOH she says there is pretty clearly a difference in some of their ability to concentrate vs other kids in the school. OTOH there isn't even daily recess in their schedule, there's only gym like once a week, and when they get home they don't play outside because it's not considered safe. Oh yeah and it happens to be all boys with the diagnosis.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114527/self-regulation-american-schools-are-failing-nonconformist-kids

I like this article a lot.

this shit is terrifying

My wife says that school is basically child-torture for a lot of her students if done by the book.

TBF:

A different, utopian approach to classroom management works from the premise that children are natively good and reasonable. If one is misbehaving, he’s trying to tell you that something is wrong. Maybe the curriculum is too easy, too hard, too monotonous. Maybe the child feels disregarded, threatened, or set up to fail. It’s a pretty thought, order through authentic, handcrafted curricula. But it’s nearly impossible to execute in the schools created through the combination of No Child Left Behind and recessionary budget-slashing. And that makes internal discipline very convenient right now.

I guess Pink Floyd was on to something.

Like some of these problems are just endemic to the nature of the thing we call school.

I'm trying to figure out if we're going to need to schedule meetings with all of our kids' teachers outside of parent-teacher conferences in order to make sure The Right Things happen for them

I mean the very idea of taking groups of 10 or 20 or 30 students and putting them in a room to learn (more or less) the same thing at (more or less) the same time is industrial and efficiency-oriented in nature. You can put them at round tables instead of rows, "differentiate" the instructrion, rearrange the jargon a million different ways, emphasize or deemphasize data and testing, but you still have large groups of students with a teacher in blocked-out time periods, and it's just not that feasible to "handcraft authentic curricula" that meets everyone's needs and to constantly stop and recognize the individual issues of every single student in that format