ILX Parenting 5: I'm a big kid now

cool! yeah, i think *everybody* slept much better once sylvie moved into her own room.

It was a massive sleep improvement for all concerned with us too.

At 19 months Dalton is sleeping awesome at night, but has recently decided he wants fuck all to do with napping reducing his 2-3 midday nap to 45-50 minutes at most and preceding that with 20-30 minutes of impassioned wailing at the injustice of it all. Hoping this just a phase.

August got her shots on Monday and ended up with slight fever off and on Tuesday, made me very nervous. I was able to bring it down with cold compresses pretty quickly. It peaked at 100 for all of ten minutes. She carried on as if she was not bothered. I would have freaked had she received all the shots due at two months at once.

It was a bit of a hassle to get the pediatrician office in our new location to agree to the alternative vaccination schedule. It was all billing issues, insurance doesn't cover an alternative schedule and so I said I had no problem paying out of pocket. Finally someone smart from billing spoke to me and said the insurance would cover the traditional vaccination months but I had to pay on those months it wouldn't. The cost would be $30 for the visit and $15 a shot. I was surprised, my cats and bunny vet visits were so much higher.

The nurse practitioner came in and understood the schedule, was aware of it and how it worked and said it was not a problem . I was afraid the office would not, in which case I would seek out a different pediatrician for fear of mistakes etc....Copies of the schedule were made for her records, bringing it in every time I will be going in too.

This is a small town with plenty of people swimming round and round in their fish bowls. I lived here for 18 years, 22 years ago...news from the modern world takes awhile to get here. If it ever arrives. I'm a weirdo here (again) with August in my sling. Get asked about it all the time, stared at in grocery stores...

FYI the alternative vac schedule has already been written about as part of the anti-vac movement, that parents freak about their kids "suffering" from all the scheduled vaccinations when in fact the children will never remember it obvs, but then have trouble making up the ones they opt to miss and their kid ends up unprotected, along with the local population whose risk is increased by non-vaccinated people.

the insurance would cover the traditional vaccination months but I had to pay on those months it wouldn't

....What? Failing to see the logic here. I'm sure there's an Excel spreadsheet somewhere that somehow justifies it vis-a-vis the insurers' bottom line but.. jeez.

It isn't about the pain from injections but reactions to them. I was going to go with a traditional schedule, but at the last minute I got a bad feeling in my gut and I just went with that.

I really don't understand how parents can fall behind when the schedule requires monthly visits. I have an apt already for next month. If a parents cannot take a printed copy of the schedule to their doctor once a month for required shots then I have a hard time understanding that they would stick to the traditional schedule either. My friend asked her doctor about the schedule and even asked if all were needed at once. The pediatrician advised her on what to get first and approved of the schedule. It seems quite the norm in Austin for several years now. I am living in Del Rio, TX right now.

I am by no means a follower of the "herd immunity" philosophy.

It is an extra doctors visit. I thought they would do a full charge on the first visit and charge nothing on the 2nd but a nurse administers the shot and needs to get paid, paperwork and then there are audits and every thing needs to be accounted for. I understand and don't have a problem with it, even if the costs out of pocket would have been much more.

I'm not gonna get into the whole vaccination debate here, but by following a staggered vaccination schedule, you are actually giving your daughter's body more opportunities to react, as well as leaving her un-immunized for longer periods. That is all I'm going to say about it, goodbye now.

The staggered vaccine schedule is complete nonsense.

^this

for anxious parents staggered vaccination better than no vaccination at all (i don't know that was the choice here, but i imagine that's the compromise for a lot of ppl who opt for staggered)

Yeah but people who choose "no vaccination" are idiots.

^this

I always planned to vaccinate and follow the traditional schedule. Plenty of pediatricians are cool with this, at least in Austin. I was even surprised when I finally saw the nurse practitioner here and she so casual about it saying it was no problem then moved on without a beat. I just thought it was unheard of here. Just a gut feeling.

My friend would of given her daughters the full course had the doctor told her but he said she would be just fine on the delayed schedule. She asked him what she could do to lessen the side effects should there be any and he suggested a delayed schedule, it was not even something she was aware of. She was asking in terms of cold compresses, baby fever reducers etc...When the doctor suggested this she asked him many questions since she had not done any prior research and this was all new to her.

Ick at these doctors.

Another friend had her twins react poorly to the DTAP at 2 months so her pediatrician in NYC suggested spacing them out. She is now on a delayed schedule and has been for four years.
Her pediatrician mentioned that it is a problem for insurance companies but that would be the only problem.

Double ick.

So it would seem pediatricians are split on this issue?

"Her pediatrician mentioned that it is a problem for insurance companies but that would be the only problem."

Yup I can't see any other problems that might exist from not fully immunizing your children at an early age.

I think some physicians have given up under a torrent of abuse from vaccine crazies sadly.

^^this.

It's easier to give in than it is to educate people who have the barest understanding of biology and opinions about science.

Well an infant with it's full round of shots at 2 months is still not fully immunized.

My plan was a traditional schedule and to continue with limited exposure because I didn't think she would be fully immunized until six months. So still limiting exposure. The delay is 2 weeks to 1 month behind the traditional schedule.

Selective vaccination is different and something I wouldn't do.

I don't think crazies can change things that easily in the medical industry. We'd have better insurance, lower medical costs and prescription costs, birthing pools everywhere if they could.

I think pediatricians are split on this issue.

"Well an infant with it's full round of shots at 2 months is still not fully immunized."

Yup and you are taking her to a doctor's office were she's going to be surrounded by a bunch of other infants and children who are also not fully immunized.

"I don't think crazies can change things that easily in the medical industry."

Really? So that's why these pediatricians are basically ignoring the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices and the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control recommendations?

Medical consensus is that vaccines are safe and effective and the best thing for your child and everyone is to vaccinate on the normal schedule.

Now with the extra office visit, maybe some pediatricians like those extra office visits? In that case, eventually, will the delayed schedule be an option all pediatricians offer?

Options here:

1) Physicians have been bullied by crazies and quacks
2) Physicians are quacks
3) Physicians want to squeeze more money out of worried parents

Awesome choices.

I think pediatricians have their own opinions and now this not only offers parents a choice but pediatricians one as well based on their own opinions, beliefs and research...and maybe greed.

I think option 1 begets 3. If a buncha crazy parents want to bring their children in more frequently and pay out of pocket to do it, who are they to turn down the profit? Physicians loooove patients who self-pay. When you do that, they don't have to pay someone to do all the billing and coding that's required to get the money from insurance companies.

xp A misinformed choice that no credible medical organization endorses and which has the potential for making your child (and any child your child comes in contact with) horribly and possibly fatally sick.

It is an extra doctors visit.

Ahhh sorry didn't realize. That makes a bit more sense.

Guys I'm not entirely understanding the harsh reactions here to staggered vaccinations? I've never heard of them, but surely having a specific vaccination a month late isn't putting anyone at risk? (He says, having no idea). I mean I, uh..... have definitely forgotten once, OK maybe twice, to bring L in at the scheduled time and had to resched for a few weeks later.

High fevers, allergic reactions and auto-immune disorders all run in my family. I didn't know until after I returned from the office Monday that a delayed schedule can prevent these things from happening. Perhaps my last minute change based on a gut feeling was for a reason.

It is a 2-4 week delayed depending on how you want to do it. You bring up a good point though, Tracer, there are plenty of children receiving their 2,4 an 6 month vaccines, not exactly to the day or even week but delayed because of scheduling conflicts and forgetfulness.

Delayed is not a year in between, delayed is not selective, delayed should not be confused with choosing to not immunize at all.

thanks guys for calling us crazies and for using this loaded word "staggered' to describe our delayed immunization schedule?

but surely having a specific vaccination a month late isn't putting anyone at risk? (He says, having no idea)

Unless these kids are exposed to a disease before they're vaccinated. Then they get sick and potentially expose other unvaccinated or immunocompromised people.

And how is "staggered" loaded? You're spacing them out, or staggering them.
From dictionary.com: to arrange otherwise than at the same time

we could easily have a month delay just due to the scheduling of appointments at our busy pediatricians' office; there is def some overreaction going on in this thread

Okay so I'm not speaking specifically about what *tera is doing. If it is really only a month delay I still don't see the point, but whatever. However there IS an actual published and popular alternative vaccination schedule by huge quack Dr Sears Inc. That schedule does not involve a delay of months here and there, but actually spaces out the shots enormously and delays some of them for years and years. That is not at all a harmless matter of a missed doc visit.

I really shouldn't have to explained all of the meanings of staggered but
Verb
• [ intrans. ] walk or move unsteadily, as if about to fall : he staggered to his feet, swaying a little.
• [with adverbial of direction ] figurative continue in existence or operation uncertainly or precariously : the council staggered from one crisis to the next.
• archaic waver in purpose; hesitate.
• archaic [ trans. ] (of a blow) cause (someone) to walk or move unsteadily, as if about to fall
[ trans. ] arrange (events, payments, hours, etc.) so that they do not occur at the same time; spread over a period of time : meetings are staggered throughout the day.
• arrange (objects or parts of an object) in a zigzag order or so that they are not in line : stagger the screws at each joint.

Noun
1 an unsteady walk or movement : she walked with a stagger.
2 an arrangement of things in a zigzag order or so that they are not in line.

Wow, some words have multiple meanings. makes u think.

I totally meant a "moving unsteadily schedule"

Thanks way to set me straight, my mistake, i thought this was a very nice place to talk about how much we love of daughter with other parents and share different ideas of parenting and the joys of it all. You were unfairly rude to Tera and now are just being snide for really no reason.

I'm still not sure what your complaint about the word is. It's obvious the meaning that was being referred to and it's an entirely apt description.

Apologize for calling anyone (indirectly) a crazy btw. That was uncalled for (even Jenny McCarthy--who admittedly I was thinking about doesn't deserve that.)

I have not read the Dr Sears book regarding immunization. I meant to but had no time.

This is the schedule:
2 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
3 months*: Pc, HIB
4 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
5 months*: Pc, HIB
6 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
7 months*: Pc, HIB
9 months: Polio (IPV)
12 months: Mumps, Polio (IPV) (See 3rd UPDATE)
15 months: Pc, HIB
18 months: DTaP, Chickenpox
2 years: Rubella, Polio (IPV) (See 3rd UPDATE)
2 1/2 years*: Hep B, Hep A (start Hep B at birth if any close relatives or caregivers have Hep B)
3 years: Hep B, Measles (See 3rd UPDATE)
3 1/2 years*: Hep B, Hep A
4 years: DTaP, Polio (IPV)
5 years: MMR
6 years: Chickenpox
12 years: Tdap, HPV
12 years, 2 months*: HPV
13 years: HPV, Meningococcal (once Meningococcal vaccine is approved for age 2, Dr. Sears will move it there and delay Hep B by 6 months)

They are split up and spaced out to lessen adverse reactions and if there is one you have a better idea of which vaccine caused it.

B-b-but that is the Sears schedule! The same schedule that doesn't result in HepB vac until 2.5 and the first measles shots until 3?!?

They are split up and spaced out to lessen adverse reactions and if there is one you have a better idea of which vaccine caused it.

False. Humans--especially baby humans--are exposed lots of antigens every day and there is no way to pinpoint what may be causing a reaction. So vaccine antigens get the blame.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#Givingachildmultiple

It is called the alternative schedule among the people I know and the one my pediatrician office is familiar with (the nurse called it the alternative schedule) and the one the mid-wife provided when we asked about vaccination schedules. August got her first HepB vaccination at birth.

Kate, agree to disagree with you. All I can tell you is my gut instinct has been correct in the past and to ignore it, when I have, has resulted in disasters large and small. Not about to explain my gut instinct to you or engage in a discussion of it :)

thank you for that.

I don't really want to get into the debate about vaccines as I am pro-vaccine, yet I am not completely trusting of the CDC and I do not view them as any sort of guideline on how to raise my daughter. I'm surprised anyone would. It would be like trusting the FDA to make all of your food choices.