Hello Mudduh Hello Fadduh: ILX Rolling Parenting Thread

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hi misshajim! are you from italy or is that just where you got your email address?

how is the diaper rash nathalie? are you using any ointment to treat it? I find that I have to use some ointment every time I change a diaper just to prevent diaper rash. I don't know the brand names in europe but there are a few kinds here, Desitin (with zinc oxide and cod fish oil) is probably most effective at getting rid of it but it is so stinky that I don't use it unless he actually has a rash. I usually use vitamin A&D ointment to put a layer of grease between his rump and the diaper (and of course I'm changing as soon as possible after the diaper gets wet). He never seemed much bothered by a bit of diaper rash but he never had a bad case.

In a month or so, maybe sooner, you'll get your first smiles from your girl and it'll be so nice!

Recent developmental leaps for my boy (two months old on thursday): Found his fist, can consistently bring it to his mouth to suck, holding his head up reasonably well if he tries, can take a rattle from my hand and shake it!

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 13:57 (twenty years ago)

Rest well (if possible) wishes to Michael -- we moved when our son was eight months old. All I can recall is being very sore and very tired and very much on the brink of snapping.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:02 (twenty years ago)

parents of older children, help me! i need advice on the unruly toddler phase. the nearly 5yr old nephew's behavior has gotten bad, to the point that school is complaining and his mother is at her wit's end. he basically doesn't know when to stop with things - he'll push something until it breaks, pinch you until you yell, etc despite having been told off repeatedly for whatever it is he's doing. it always ends in tears, and he seems to take absolutely no note of consequences. behavior charts and reward systems and the naughty step and even the occasional whap on the tush have been tried, none to much success. he's a really sensitive, loving kid in general, but these episodes are making everyone treat him like the bad seed. is he going to grow out of this? should we invest in a miniature straitjacket?

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:11 (twenty years ago)

how is the diaper rash nathalie? are you using any ointment to treat it?

It's not that severe. We use iosine (or sth like that) which is CRAP as it leaves red stains. Grrr. On top of that we use Daktazin. Zinc cream isn't enough.

We, Ophelia and I, went to Kind&Gezin today: She's now 57 cm and well over 4 kilo 500 grams! She's in the 10 percent bracket! She's doing pretty well actually. She already follows us: watches us move from one side to the next. She also hold her head up pretty well. Sadly she also sucks her finger if she's hungry. Some days are pretty good: no crying and waking up every two hours for a good feed, but other days she howls like tomorrow (and milk) will never come. :-)

From tomorrow I'll try start pumping milk. It's quite complex: not as easy as getting yer tit out. hah! But it'll be necessary in a few weeks when the shop will (hopefully) get busier.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:22 (twenty years ago)

invest in a psychological evaluation. I know this seems daunting and/or cliched but something is clearly "going on" wrt his behavior that could be tied to learning abilities and/or emotional development just as easily as socialization. has the school suggested anything along these lines? is there a counselor or social worker connected to the school? ultimately he'll grow out of it but early intervention will speed the process and help his parents, too.

xpost

m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:24 (twenty years ago)

maybe the kid has food sensitivities? Does he have a good diet generally?

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:41 (twenty years ago)

With the unruly nephew, is the connection between the punishment and the crime being made REALLY, REALLY clear? Also, if he pinches until you yell, the time to grab his hand and calmly and coolly say "Don't you EVER pinch me again. Don't you ever pinch ANYONE again" is before it hurts. He's testing his limits, and the limit for hurting, breaking and teasing needs to be zero, not when somebody starts crying.

I could just kill my brother in law sometimes the way he is screwing up my nephew's head. He's been trying to reason with the child since he was a baby, and he's such a pushover that as soon as the boy starts crying from being caught and punished, bro-in-law is immediately picking him up and hugging and comforting him, "Aw, it's okay, you just did a bad thing, it's okay, don't cry." Does he not realize what's coming out of his mouth? YOU DID SOMETHING BAD = IT'S OKAY.

pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:45 (twenty years ago)

psych evaluation might be worthwhile but don't presume that parenting is unrelated either. Many people employ a naughty step or timeout or other forms of punishment ineffectively--discipline is an ongoing process that occurs constantly and not just when your kid behaves poorly. Many times parents think that kids are ignoring consequences when, in fact, the consequences are not properly employed, are in a state of flux, or are not consistently employed or explained or prepared for. Thorough, objective environmental assessment is essential, and many times, parents are unable to do this themselves. Your description sounds frightening, Lauren. Addressing that sort of behavior should be a huge priority, which I assume it is. I'd also suggest reading books by a guy named John Rosemond--he's very much old school but like any other parental guide, it may make sense to your situation.

don weiner (don weiner), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:48 (twenty years ago)

he's going to to see a child psychologist soon. in the interim, i thought i'd see what other people had experienced. we've thought of the food/behaviour link and are trying to limit refined carbs and sweets with e-numbers based on his reactions.

if he pinches until you yell, the time to grab his hand and calmly and coolly say "Don't you EVER pinch me again. Don't you ever pinch ANYONE again" is before it hurts. He's testing his limits, and the limit for hurting, breaking and teasing needs to be zero, not when somebody starts crying.

yes, and that's how he's treated. unfortunately, he doesn't stop. that's the $64k question, really - why?

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:50 (twenty years ago)

I'm at a loss. Don OTM about John Rosemond — he's added a veneer of Christianity that wasn't there when I was reading his columns 15 years ago, which may or may not give a parent the squicks, but his nuts & bolts advice about behavioral training is very good.

pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:00 (twenty years ago)

Systems theory = it doesn't matter why, the only thing that matters is the behavior. It's very unlikely that a psych eval will immediately offer up usable gold ("I do it because I...I need glasses!"), but yeah behavior like this doesn't just come out of nowhere. Better to work it on two fronts simultaneously.

Sad to say it, but if all the charts and steps and stuff just aren't working then maybe it's just time to put him in his room alone for five minutes and let him break his own stuff. A five-year-old will wise up real quick if he actually has to suffer the same punishments he's inflicted on others.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:03 (twenty years ago)

i'll look for the rosemond books, thanks.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:16 (twenty years ago)

what are e-numbers?

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:17 (twenty years ago)

numbers assigned to chemical additives in food. a pack of brightly-colored candy would have an ingredient list ending with e328, e514, e112, e489 and on and on, for example.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:20 (twenty years ago)

Lauren, there's a fair amt. of good stuff for free at Rosemond's website, http://www.rosemond.com

Here's the beginning of his current column:


Children should pay attention to parents

John Rosemond

02/16/2006 - By the time a child is 3 years old, he has come to one of two conclusions concerning his parents:

Conclusion One: It's my job to pay attention to my parents.

Conclusion Two: It's my parents' job to pay attention to me.

A 3-year-old who reaches Conclusion One can be successfully disciplined. Furthermore, his discipline will be relatively easy. A child who reaches Conclusion Two can be neither successfully nor easily disciplined. This is so because the discipline of a child rests primarily on whether or not he is paying attention to his parents, and it is a fact that a child will not pay sufficient attention to parents who are acting like it is their job to pay as much attention as they can to him.

The child who reaches Conclusion Two has acquired, by age 3, an attention deficit. Not attention deficit disorder, mind you, because there's nothing at all wrong with him. Nonetheless, there will definitely be disorder in the house. His parents will say things like "he doesn't listen to us," "we have to yell to get his attention," and "we have to get right up in his face before he does what we're telling him to do." Yep, he has an attention deficit all right, but not one caused by a chemical imbalance or some malfunction in his brain. This attention deficit was caused by well-meaning parents who think good parents pay as much attention as they can to their kids; that the more attention one pays ones child, the better a parent one is. That is, after all, the prevailing belief, and it has prevailed since the late 1960s, when the newly emerging professional parenting class—people like me, with capital letters after their names—claimed that a child's psychological health was a function of how much positive attention he received from his parents.

pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:24 (twenty years ago)

oh, like red dye #2 in the states, good good, that stuff is horrible.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:34 (twenty years ago)

Re: diaper rash - when Spencer was a baby, he kept getting a rash that I could NOT get rid of. His doctor diagnosed it as more of a fungal infection, and said to use Lotrimin on it, and it worked. Just so you know...

luna (luna.c), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 22:44 (twenty years ago)

Also, is there anything cuter than an 8 year old with headphones on, loudly singing along with Sinatra songs, doing sweeping arm gestures and wee dance steps? Because I can't think of much.

luna (luna.c), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 22:45 (twenty years ago)

Edith is a cutie! (sorry, I have nothing to say on this thread other than "aw, your kid is cute")

ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 22:52 (twenty years ago)

We moved. I'm not on the laptop this time as there's no wireless connection here; rather I've just performed a series of gymnastic manoeuvres to extricate the desktop PC (box C51, folks) and the monitor (unboxed but behind three sets of partially-dismantled Ikea Billy units) from the comically-overstuffed 2nd bedroom. Phone was connected this afternoon.

It's cardboard city (195 was an underestimate; we've found two boxes labelled K35, a few unnumbered and unlisted and then there were the unlidded last-minute krazy-kram krates). The gas fire works. Previous occupants left stone figurines, framed photos of kittens, a wrapped bar of Imperial Leather on the bath and - shudder - a tupperware container of mealworms to feed the visiting robins. We love the place but need to rework every room. By the summer it will be a home.

Getting back on topic, Ava loved her tag-team kiddie-minding trip with Suzanne and Maria (and Josh and Luke and Ruby and all the other rugby-crazy babes), coming back with rosy cheeks and sleeping like a rock from 7:30. This morning I was appallingly hungover (two pints of Stella on a mostly empty stomach) and probably not best placed to judge Ava's rambunctious reaction to her new surroundings. A mushroom omelette and a pot of Earl Grey later, and I could see that she was loving it. There are mirrors everywhere (some left here, some ours, yet to be hung and so at ground-level) and Ava can't contain her joy at that. Difficult to get her to bed but she's down now with a convection heater in her room hastily rigged up to a timer. Hope she sleeps the night through.

The crappest baby-related thing about the move was defrosting the fridge on Sunday morning and hence having to chuck a whole host of ziploc-bagged food. (We left it outside on the bathroom windowsill but forecasts of -2C overnight were unfounded). For the first time in her life Ava's eating out of shop-bought jars (decent organic stuff from Planta, but still). If we'd known our vendors were going to leave a chest freezer (plugged in and operational) in the outhouse we could've saved days of home cookin'...

Pam is so fatigued she's got ill and is sleeping through a chair design docu on TV. If only we could find the VCR... Oh dear, Yentob's just got his kit off. Scratch that.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 23:14 (twenty years ago)

Thank you, Ailsa.

Well done Mike and Pam and Ava. I am thinking of Mirror World in The Mighty Boosh.

I am going to work on Edith realising it's her job to pay attention to me. Well, I suppose I am already working on it, as I often balance cuddly toys on my head for a laugh.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 08:51 (twenty years ago)

re: diaper rash, we've used different things, but it seems like aquaphor has been most reliable. it's basically just petroleum jelly from what i can tell, but their baby ointment has helped more than anything else.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 08:58 (twenty years ago)

(and michael, my sympathies. we're contemplating moving this year when our lease is up, but i think the sheer horror of trying to do it with an almost-2-year-old at that point will probably keep us here for at least another year.)

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 09:00 (twenty years ago)

I congratulate and condole with you, Mike. I was born on the day we moved house, apparently (and also during the world cup). I imagine that was pretty stressful (although come to think of it a fairly good excuse for my mum not to have to do any moving).

Hey, I have just checked and England didn't even qualify in 1978! All along my dad has led me to believe that he wasn't at my birth because he had to watch a tense England match! Bah.

Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 09:29 (twenty years ago)

It must have been Scotland vs Peru.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 09:42 (twenty years ago)

Ah, the 3rd of June.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 09:45 (twenty years ago)

Why did the Scotsman strangle his pigeons?

Because they kept saying, "Peru, Peru".

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 10:07 (twenty years ago)

I was born on the 19th if that helps anyone do the necessary detective work...

Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 10:10 (twenty years ago)

I lost interest after the 11th (Scotland/Holland), but googling shows there wasn't a match on the 19th.

SO JUST WHAT WAS YOUR DAD DOING THEN, EH?

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 10:31 (twenty years ago)

!!

Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 10:31 (twenty years ago)

Haha - wrong sport Archel!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/19/newsid_2940000/2940656.stm

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 10:36 (twenty years ago)

Haha, I never thought my dad liked cricket but looks probable!

Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 10:38 (twenty years ago)

I can't wait to breastfeed, although I'm scared that I'll struggle with it.

Trust me, the first few days and even weeks will be hard, but after that it really does get a lot easier. If you can't cope, get some painkillers and/or cream. I did and it made it a lot easier. The funny thing with my breasts: the right one is still struggling a little - Ophelia attacks it baracuda style - and during the night they get massive. You can prepare your breasts before your baby's born: try drying your nipples off with a *hard* towel for example.

Don't freak out when your baby vomits a bit of bloody milk, it doesn't harm her/him at all. :-)

What made it easier for me: I tried pumping milk twice. The midwives frothed at the mouth but I wanted to try it. I just wanted to have the choice. It was as if I wasn't allowed, as though *I* was the kid.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 12:11 (twenty years ago)

Mrs. Hunter delivered a beautiful baby girl yesterday, 7 lbs 15 oz, 20.5" long. Everyone is doing well. Except I think the 2 year old is starting to suspect that she will be coming home with us and generally infringing on his domain. I'll try to get a picture up if I can later.

Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 20:18 (twenty years ago)

Woo! Congratulations!

pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Congratulations!

Jaq (Jaq), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 20:23 (twenty years ago)

yeah, congrats!

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 20:41 (twenty years ago)

congrats!

don weiner (don weiner), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 20:53 (twenty years ago)

2 year old boy suspicious of a newly arrived sister, eh? This is a familiar sentiment, in that it was my own experience. According to my mom I would have nothing to do with her for a few weeks. ;-)

And, of course, congratulations!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 21:15 (twenty years ago)

good job hunter family!

teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 21:35 (twenty years ago)

Rock on.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 9 February 2006 09:00 (twenty years ago)

Oh wow! Congratulations!!!! :-))))


The breastpumping is not as easy as I figured. First time it went excellent, this morning no milk at all. BOO. I'll need to pump when my breasts are at its fullest,namely at night.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 9 February 2006 09:00 (twenty years ago)

It's a girl!! Congratualtions to you all and good luck in the weeks ahead!

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 9 February 2006 09:09 (twenty years ago)

Nathalie, I know this sort of comment doesn't help a whole lot right now, but whatever solution you come up with, things will get a lot better and much easier with the feeding, you'll see. Will try and pick wifey's brains though for tips.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 9 February 2006 09:14 (twenty years ago)

Congratulations! if everything goes alright, Sara will be 2 herself when a babybrother/sister arrives...so please keep me posted on what to expect from the situation, it is what keeps my mind busy most in this period.
and yes, someone was asking, I'm Italian and we have all these sick beliefs here, like if you brestpump, then you loose your milk, which is FALSE. I never did it myself, but Italian mothers have so much pressure from other Italian mothers here. Why don't they just read a book once in a while I don't know, but when you meet up and maybe say, regarding some kid's issue, "You know, I read in a book..." your interlocutor will say (9 out of 10) "Yes, BUT MY BABY IS DIFFERENT"
which is probably true as they are all different, but here I find that this is a way to say "I don't care about your experience or anybody else's, I know better" and I think it is such an egoistical, egocentrical way to bring up a baby...

misshajim (strand), Thursday, 9 February 2006 09:17 (twenty years ago)

Well done to the Hillman Hunters!

I was going to write last night that the Miller/Edith pic almost made me blub but I feel much more robust this morning after a stroll up the hill, so none of that nonsense.

Thanks for your words of congratulation on the house move. Of course, the hard work starts now - how to strip wallpaper, fit hardwood flooring, replumb the bathroom, install central heating and generally decorate with a one-year-old running amok? It seems like we might be shelling out for some burly men to do most of it for us, which wasn't the plan. Another reason why I wish we'd moved when we were supposed to (Sept/Oct) - Ava wasn't as mobile.

She's not sleeping quite as well and (inevitably, having had the briefest of contact with another child) she's ill again - bad nappy rash and chesty cough. I think this is something that we all just have to endure - from 6 months on they stumble from one variant of the cold virus to another like they're trying to collect the whole set.

And God, she is loud thesedays. I presume she's just testing her voice but I really should dig out the SPL meter and see what she can manage. Really explosive shrieks.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 9 February 2006 10:47 (twenty years ago)

Blub away, Mike. It'll do you good. Are you "on holiday"? I am doing The Spy Who Loved Me extras. I am reliably informed that we haven't done them before, but I think we have.

Edith is getting louder too, and she hauls herself up in her cot, the better to scream.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 9 February 2006 10:55 (twenty years ago)

No, three days off last week (friend visiting from Mcr, packing) and two days off this week (moving, recovering from moving). I'm back at work; it's all Big Cat Diary, Dub Dob Deeb and Dad's Army around here (but Fry & Laurie and Reeves & Mortimer on the horizon).

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 9 February 2006 10:59 (twenty years ago)

Nick, thanks for the encouraging words. I shouldn't complain though: my baby's gaining weight so that's the best sign that things are going better than I think. :-) I realize with pumping I'll just need to practice and do it when my breasts are full. :-) But any tips are more than welcome!

Gah, today I'm feeling tired and I also have a terrible headache. :-(

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 9 February 2006 11:03 (twenty years ago)

Congratulations and have fun with the new baby, Hunter!

Now I need some advice, any ideas will help even if your kids are a lot younger. My nine-year-old's eating habits are atrocious. We sit down at the dinner table every night, and both my husbad and I have reasonably good table manners. It has taken forever to pound into her brain that she needs to put her napkin in her lap, not talk with food in her mouth, chew with her mouth closed, etc... We usually have to remind her about these things once a night. But that's okay, I realize she's a kid and the habits will be learned eventually (even if it's taking years and years). The problem is that if we're eating a dish that she really likes, she eats like she's never had food before. She shovels it into her mouth and barely stops to chew. It's disgusting to watch and she usually reverts back to the shoveling a few minutes after I've told her to slow down. And then when we have community snacks, she does the same thing and acts very selfishly. Like we had a bowl of popcorn last night and she kept grabbing handfulls and handfulls and shoving them into her face, she was kind of bent over the bowl and guarding it, too. I told her to only take a little at a time THREE TIMES before my husband blew up and sent her to her room. I don't understand where this is coming from with her. I'm not selfish about food, sometimes when we go out for breakfast I eat only half of mine because I've given up most of my meats to the kids. And she's always had plenty, we're fairly well-off and there has never been the threat of no food. She's not overweight, either. This only happens when it's a food she really likes. I don't think this is a problem she needs to go to therapy for, or anything, but I'm looking for ideas on how to get her to realize what she's doing and to slow it down.

Rebekkah (burntbrat), Thursday, 9 February 2006 15:32 (twenty years ago)


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