Hello Mudduh Hello Fadduh: ILX Rolling Parenting Thread

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One frustration with kids and food is a child who loves steamed broccoli (with a bit of ranch dressing for dipping) one day and screams "I hate that! I've ALWAYS hated that!" a week later. Sarah's 17 and she STILL pulls that shit!

truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Friday, 3 February 2006 13:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Nick: It did indeed. :-)

I used to love blood-sausages until I asked my dad what it was made of. Yes, I was an idiot. I mean blood sausages, did I even need to ask? Of course. My dad replied:"Pig's blood of course." I had the fork halfway between my mouth and my plate. It never reached my mouth. I decided I hated blood-sausages as much as I had once liked them. Namely a lot.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Friday, 3 February 2006 13:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I like the prison dessert technique. More concrete than just saying "no dessert."

I'm wondering if other parents here would like to share their "tricks" for encouraging good behavior. My daughter was refusing to brush her teeth for a while, so I started saying, "I wonder if toothpaste will turn your teeth purple and sparkly?" and then she got really excited to find out. And even when she sees there's no change, she gets to laugh at papa for thinking such crazy thoughts. Usually she just forgets about it because once she starts brushing, she likes it.

I've done a similar thing with clipping her nails, which she doesn't like. I tell her that if we clip her nails we can go into the backyard and plant the clippings to see if a fingernail tree will grow, and then it becomes no problem. I'm careful never to promise that such a tree will grow, but use the language of an experiment. So far it's worked wonders, and if anybody else has any such tricks, I'd be happy to hear them.

Nemo (JND), Friday, 3 February 2006 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't wait till Time Team dig the fingernails up.

Oh, I suppose they'll just cross reference it with this now. No more Time Team.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 3 February 2006 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

For a long time, we had what I liked to call "prison dessert" at our house.

Much better than what my friends had to endure: their room turned into a veritable prison cell after they had been caught stealing. Their mom decided they needed to serve time. Their room was unheated in the middle of winter (with a broken window) and they got water and bread for food. It was pushed into the room on a plate. :-(

Seeing abuse didn't fuck me up like my friends obviously did, but god damn it made me very sad to see my friends treated that way.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Friday, 3 February 2006 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link

One thing I've read: apparently kids who get a variety of foods passed along to them via breast milk or in the very early stages of solid-food eating enjoy a broader range of foods later. Since Sterling started on solid foods (6 months), whenever we cook something that doesn't involve something he's not supposed to eat until later for potential-allergen reasons (soy, nuts, dairy), we mash up some and give it to him. So far his reaction to everything has been to take one spoonful, get a quizzical look on his face for a minute (the line Lisa invented the first time he did that: "What do you think, Sterling? Do you like that, or is it kinda weird?"), then smile and open wide for more. He even likes spicy foods.

We're trying to feed him organic food as much as possible, and have pretty much banned anything with high-fructose corn syrup or hydrogenated oils from our household.

Douglas (Douglas), Friday, 3 February 2006 16:00 (eighteen years ago) link

they would just look at the entree and yell, "I want prison dessert." The whole experiment ended when they said this at a restaurant, and a bunch of shocked people heard it

hahah!

pink for a second I thought you were going to show us pictures of something else up there.

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Friday, 3 February 2006 16:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Sam - did you think I'd had the baby & not told you?!

Panther Pink (Pinkpanther), Friday, 3 February 2006 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

they would just look at the entree and yell, "I want prison dessert."

This is just making me think of "WHERE'S! MY! HASENPFEFFER!?!?"

NickB (NickB), Friday, 3 February 2006 16:55 (eighteen years ago) link

that's logical Douglas given the consistency in taste of formula vs. breastmilk. and it's key to use a huge variety of foods when they first start taking solids and then not deviate just because they develop preferences.

and actually, there's a great selfish payoff to this: it's easier to deal with kids when they will eat anything. As they grow older, meals can be a great source of tension, especially when the afternoon nap is cut off because your kids are tired from a long day and don't have the patience to choke down that new recipe you're trying.

I might add that the difference in nutrition in high-fructose corn syrup and regular fructose is not much, so unless you're using fructose as a delivery system for other nutrients, orange juice is not a whole lot better than 16 oz of Sprite.

don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 3 February 2006 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

"orange juice is not a whole lot better than 16 oz of Sprite."

but even canned OJ has vitamin C, no?

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Friday, 3 February 2006 21:32 (eighteen years ago) link

you can practically get enough vitamin c by breathing, nobody's in danger of getting scurvy. Don OTM, way too much sugar in juice, better they have the whole fruit.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 3 February 2006 21:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I am nowhere close to having children, and may never, but I think this thread is awesome. Go parents!

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 3 February 2006 21:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Sam - did you think I'd had the baby & not told you?!

haha, no! Given the course of the thread then I thought ladies were going to start baring their baby accessories.

i want a baby now!

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Friday, 3 February 2006 22:10 (eighteen years ago) link

I am really very very tired.

Any tips for dealing with teething, oh parental gurus?

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Sunday, 5 February 2006 12:55 (eighteen years ago) link

:( everything is so much worse when you're tired and so much better when you have enough sleep.

teeny (teeny), Sunday, 5 February 2006 13:41 (eighteen years ago) link

I remember a Sunday nearly ten yrs ago now when it seemed our son would NEVER stop crying and we'd never sleep again. I was so delirious from lack of sleep I started praying for peace & quiet. Believe it or not, this too will pass.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 5 February 2006 13:51 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't have so much problem with sleep deprivation during the day. At night, though, I do get a bit mental. I worry when I see her crying in the night. Probably because it's dark and so quiet (apart from her crying of course). She has a rash on her behind. I wonder if it hurts to poop. :-( She still has a lot of cramps and thus keeps us awake with her crying sessions. She also doesn't sleep so much anymore. Just wants to rest on our chest and look at our face the entire time. It's really sweet but DAMN IT WE NEED SLEEP, baby. :-)

PJ Miller, I saw some rubber stick (or whatever you call it) for teething. I don't know how or if it works though.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Sunday, 5 February 2006 14:38 (eighteen years ago) link

What Douglas said above applies to us as well -- our son will eat our moderately spicy Indian food, and will now eat just about anything my wife makes. Some of his favorite foods: guacamole, black beans, carrots, pasta, cucumbers, bananas ("hoo-hoo ha-ha"), Veggie Booty, sausage (not sausage) patties, naan with raita. (Can't recall exactly when we started giving him the occasional dairy item. It's all a blur.) Some hardcore teething pains have been helped by frozen peas and blueberries. He also tends to guzzle Very Vanilla very quickly, but (judging from vocal excitement, the jog-in-place dance, and the ear-to-ear smile) nothing pleases him like mommy's milk.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Sunday, 5 February 2006 15:11 (eighteen years ago) link

...not to say that there haven't been major frustrations. For a period of about three weeks or so, early on, feeding him stuff was a snap -- a jar of vegetables, a jar of fruit, happy to be in his chair, all clean and easy and finished after 10-15 minutes. Very systematic. There are some days now where I've felt like I've been chasing him around the house from sun-up through sun-down just to get him a good amount of solids. And his way of saying he doesn't want something still amounts to a "nnh, nnh" and maybe a slap at the spoon.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Sunday, 5 February 2006 15:23 (eighteen years ago) link

We have got a rubber teething thing. I will go and see if there´s anything in the freezer (I doubt it). Thanks!

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Sunday, 5 February 2006 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link

There are also homeopathic teething tablets--tiny little things that dissolve on the tongue and seem to make things easier for him.

Douglas (Douglas), Sunday, 5 February 2006 17:30 (eighteen years ago) link

So I find a packet of frozen peas but it was open so when I tried to shove it in her mouth the frozen peas went all over the kitchen floor and under the fridge, etc.

I will now pass you over to the person who left the packet of peas open in the freezer, she has something she wants to say to you all:

Come along, dear, you're on...

It's not my fault. The probability of Peter going to the fridge to get some frozen peas is less than zero, therefore leaving an open bag of peas is really safe in this house. Next time you think of giving Peter some advice involving the manipulation of liquids or anything droppable, bear in mind that he is very, VERY clumsy and he'll certainly drop it. So please, think twice next time.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Sunday, 5 February 2006 19:58 (eighteen years ago) link

There are some days now where I've felt like I've been chasing him around the house from sun-up through sun-down just to get him a good amount of solids. And his way of saying he doesn't want something still amounts to a "nnh, nnh" and maybe a slap at the spoon.

Z is increasingly interested in feeding himself, which is on balance a good thing but oh the mess. yesterday he managed to spoon about two gulps of chicken-broccoli casserole into his mouth before dropping the spoon and going straight in with his hands. i kept popping spoonfuls in myself in between his fistfuls, and somehow it all added up to him actually eating a meal, but it required extensive cleanup efforts afterward -- of him, me, my wife, the chair, the bib, the floor...

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 5 February 2006 20:42 (eighteen years ago) link

mylicon is a placebo

don weiner (don weiner), Sunday, 5 February 2006 21:27 (eighteen years ago) link

if every parent could sleep uninterrupted for 8 hours every night, most of the problems of the world would disappear immediately.

Seriously.

don weiner (don weiner), Sunday, 5 February 2006 21:28 (eighteen years ago) link

So clearly the answer is to dose your kids with sleeping pills.

What?

*is chased into bonfire*

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 February 2006 21:29 (eighteen years ago) link

oh, and I don't think it's been mentioned but hangovers are WAY WORSE when you have kids. Trust me, they know when you have drunk too much and pick that night to get sick, toothaches, insomnia, etc.

don weiner (don weiner), Sunday, 5 February 2006 21:29 (eighteen years ago) link

MOST IMPORTANT RULE, EVAH: the less said in the middle of the night between two parents, the better. 3am arguments are futile.

don weiner (don weiner), Sunday, 5 February 2006 21:31 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think I've ever been this tired in my life.

Today we're moving house (I'm typing this on the laptop in the bathroom). Yesterday we did a solid 17-hr packing and cleaning frenzy (we told ourselves when we went to bed on Saturday night that we were 98% of the way there; quite a last 2%); crashed out on the futon in the living room at 1am. At 3:15 Ava starts screaming; she hadn't had a really bad teething night for a couple of weeks but on this occasion she keeps going until 4:30 or so.

Our alarm goes off at 6:30 (we expect the movers at 7:45 and have a load of stuff to do before they arrive). They actually get here at 8:50 (but we're still not quite ready). Our babysitter* is running late and arrives at 11:00, so that's four hours of almost continuously holding the babe (nowhere to sit, nowhere for her to safely run about). I ache all over. Ava has been very high-maintenance; joyous in her own way but incredibly LOUD.

(* - first time we've ever had one; it's one of the neighbourhood mums)

Final box count is 195. Looking round these emptying rooms I realise what we're giving up. New place better be as good as I remember.

Ava is being taken to watch a local U-15s rugby match with Ruby. The mind boggles.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 6 February 2006 11:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I am lost for words, Michael.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 6 February 2006 12:19 (eighteen years ago) link

if every parent could sleep uninterrupted for 8 hours every night, most of the problems of the world would disappear immediately.

I managed to let my husband sleep for eight hours straight this night. Hurrah! I'm happy for him. He definitely needed it. I do too, but hey I have breastfeeding to do.

I bought a breastpump today. They should have told me I need a machine to sterilize (?) the stuff. Also a machine to warm up the milk. I'm beginning to understand why breastfeeding is so easy; but then I needed the pump because I can't keep breastfeeding forever. :-(

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 6 February 2006 13:12 (eighteen years ago) link

boiling water is adequate for sterilization of the tubes and parts and such. You don't need a machine to warm the milk, either. Do NOT boil breast milk or heat it in the microwave because it wipes out some of the good stuff your body produces. Just get hot water (not scalding), put breast milk in the bottle prior to feeding, and put the bottle in the hot or warm water and let it warm up. Also, read up on how long you can leave out breast milk before you have to refrigerate/freeze it. It can last at least 3 hours, maybe more, without spoiling when it is freshly expressed.

don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 6 February 2006 13:20 (eighteen years ago) link

My baby Sara is 15 months, she laughs a lot, sleeps quite well (apart since she's started growing teeths very recently) eats alright, still doesn't walk on her own (but she can take all the time she wants) and is a "sunny" baby.
I breastfed her until she was 7 months, even though it was difficult to adjust that with working. When she was born, she cried all the time for three solid months, but I guess you're biologically made to tolerate that and still think "my little lovely little one". Now she is very serene. Recently, late in the afternoon, she has taken to sitting next to me and reading her own books. I love this!
Now we are maybe waiting for a little brother/sister. And we're not scared. just a little happier if possible.
But then my mood today is particularly supported by the unusual fact that she slept from 8pm last night to 8 am today :D

misshajim (strand), Monday, 6 February 2006 13:52 (eighteen years ago) link

about breastfeeding, I think should be encouraged to rely on her own right balance of instinct/rationality. I had so many people telling me what to do and how to do it, that i was mental. consider that at first Sara cried ALWAYS, so there was always room for my mother, sister, mother in law, sister in law to give me their own precious opinions ie. "you probably do not have enough milk" "your milk is too heavy" "you let her breastfeed too long" etc...
But she cried soooo very much and loud, that she scared everybody away but me and her father.
eh eh eh
how i love the little one!

misshajim (strand), Monday, 6 February 2006 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Teething: A Lull

http://static.flickr.com/11/96251660_01966e66a2.jpg

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 07:57 (eighteen years ago) link

We have both had haircuts since then.

Did you survive the move, Michael?

(I expect an answer in six weeks or so.)

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 07:58 (eighteen years ago) link

hi misshajim! are you from italy or is that just where you got your email address?

how is the diaper rash nathalie? are you using any ointment to treat it? I find that I have to use some ointment every time I change a diaper just to prevent diaper rash. I don't know the brand names in europe but there are a few kinds here, Desitin (with zinc oxide and cod fish oil) is probably most effective at getting rid of it but it is so stinky that I don't use it unless he actually has a rash. I usually use vitamin A&D ointment to put a layer of grease between his rump and the diaper (and of course I'm changing as soon as possible after the diaper gets wet). He never seemed much bothered by a bit of diaper rash but he never had a bad case.

In a month or so, maybe sooner, you'll get your first smiles from your girl and it'll be so nice!

Recent developmental leaps for my boy (two months old on thursday): Found his fist, can consistently bring it to his mouth to suck, holding his head up reasonably well if he tries, can take a rattle from my hand and shake it!

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 13:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Rest well (if possible) wishes to Michael -- we moved when our son was eight months old. All I can recall is being very sore and very tired and very much on the brink of snapping.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:02 (eighteen years ago) link

parents of older children, help me! i need advice on the unruly toddler phase. the nearly 5yr old nephew's behavior has gotten bad, to the point that school is complaining and his mother is at her wit's end. he basically doesn't know when to stop with things - he'll push something until it breaks, pinch you until you yell, etc despite having been told off repeatedly for whatever it is he's doing. it always ends in tears, and he seems to take absolutely no note of consequences. behavior charts and reward systems and the naughty step and even the occasional whap on the tush have been tried, none to much success. he's a really sensitive, loving kid in general, but these episodes are making everyone treat him like the bad seed. is he going to grow out of this? should we invest in a miniature straitjacket?

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:11 (eighteen years ago) link

how is the diaper rash nathalie? are you using any ointment to treat it?

It's not that severe. We use iosine (or sth like that) which is CRAP as it leaves red stains. Grrr. On top of that we use Daktazin. Zinc cream isn't enough.

We, Ophelia and I, went to Kind&Gezin today: She's now 57 cm and well over 4 kilo 500 grams! She's in the 10 percent bracket! She's doing pretty well actually. She already follows us: watches us move from one side to the next. She also hold her head up pretty well. Sadly she also sucks her finger if she's hungry. Some days are pretty good: no crying and waking up every two hours for a good feed, but other days she howls like tomorrow (and milk) will never come. :-)

From tomorrow I'll try start pumping milk. It's quite complex: not as easy as getting yer tit out. hah! But it'll be necessary in a few weeks when the shop will (hopefully) get busier.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link

invest in a psychological evaluation. I know this seems daunting and/or cliched but something is clearly "going on" wrt his behavior that could be tied to learning abilities and/or emotional development just as easily as socialization. has the school suggested anything along these lines? is there a counselor or social worker connected to the school? ultimately he'll grow out of it but early intervention will speed the process and help his parents, too.

xpost

m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:24 (eighteen years ago) link

maybe the kid has food sensitivities? Does he have a good diet generally?

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

With the unruly nephew, is the connection between the punishment and the crime being made REALLY, REALLY clear? Also, if he pinches until you yell, the time to grab his hand and calmly and coolly say "Don't you EVER pinch me again. Don't you ever pinch ANYONE again" is before it hurts. He's testing his limits, and the limit for hurting, breaking and teasing needs to be zero, not when somebody starts crying.

I could just kill my brother in law sometimes the way he is screwing up my nephew's head. He's been trying to reason with the child since he was a baby, and he's such a pushover that as soon as the boy starts crying from being caught and punished, bro-in-law is immediately picking him up and hugging and comforting him, "Aw, it's okay, you just did a bad thing, it's okay, don't cry." Does he not realize what's coming out of his mouth? YOU DID SOMETHING BAD = IT'S OKAY.

pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:45 (eighteen years ago) link

psych evaluation might be worthwhile but don't presume that parenting is unrelated either. Many people employ a naughty step or timeout or other forms of punishment ineffectively--discipline is an ongoing process that occurs constantly and not just when your kid behaves poorly. Many times parents think that kids are ignoring consequences when, in fact, the consequences are not properly employed, are in a state of flux, or are not consistently employed or explained or prepared for. Thorough, objective environmental assessment is essential, and many times, parents are unable to do this themselves. Your description sounds frightening, Lauren. Addressing that sort of behavior should be a huge priority, which I assume it is. I'd also suggest reading books by a guy named John Rosemond--he's very much old school but like any other parental guide, it may make sense to your situation.

don weiner (don weiner), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:48 (eighteen years ago) link

he's going to to see a child psychologist soon. in the interim, i thought i'd see what other people had experienced. we've thought of the food/behaviour link and are trying to limit refined carbs and sweets with e-numbers based on his reactions.

if he pinches until you yell, the time to grab his hand and calmly and coolly say "Don't you EVER pinch me again. Don't you ever pinch ANYONE again" is before it hurts. He's testing his limits, and the limit for hurting, breaking and teasing needs to be zero, not when somebody starts crying.

yes, and that's how he's treated. unfortunately, he doesn't stop. that's the $64k question, really - why?

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 14:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm at a loss. Don OTM about John Rosemond — he's added a veneer of Christianity that wasn't there when I was reading his columns 15 years ago, which may or may not give a parent the squicks, but his nuts & bolts advice about behavioral training is very good.

pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Systems theory = it doesn't matter why, the only thing that matters is the behavior. It's very unlikely that a psych eval will immediately offer up usable gold ("I do it because I...I need glasses!"), but yeah behavior like this doesn't just come out of nowhere. Better to work it on two fronts simultaneously.

Sad to say it, but if all the charts and steps and stuff just aren't working then maybe it's just time to put him in his room alone for five minutes and let him break his own stuff. A five-year-old will wise up real quick if he actually has to suffer the same punishments he's inflicted on others.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link

i'll look for the rosemond books, thanks.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:16 (eighteen years ago) link

what are e-numbers?

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 15:17 (eighteen years ago) link


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