do these fucks never learn

maybe 'far' is overstating wrt arsenal but rvp, cesc, nasri and that half season when arshavin was immediately one of the best players in the league vs only really ramsey of their attacking players who has been at that level this season

Teams outside top four prob a lot stronger as a group now vs then

tend to disagree because the lower half this year is virtually useless, huge chasm beneath southampton and newcastle

the shit teams of five years ago were mostly more route-one than the current lot and this liverpool side would probably have a few difficult away games vs game raising clodhoppers if they were to face the teams from 12-16 here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Premier_League#League_table

consider this manchester city side in 10th which had about fifty times the talent of whichever team finishes 10th season, even if they did have mark hughes as manager

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-09_Manchester_City_F.C._season

idk man 'even if'

the 10th placed team this season is also likely to have mark hughes as manager except their best player is charlie adam rather than kompany, robinho, elano, zabaleta etc

yeah it rly makes u re-evaluate adams alright

Bayern Munich: Neuer 6, Alaba 5.5, Mandzukic 6

Manchester United: Rooney 6

Ratings from ROB DRAPER at the Allianz

By Mark Ogden, Allianz Arena

Mario Mandzukic

Gave ample evidence as to why Bayern have signed Robert Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund to lead the line from next season until he equalised. Didn’t threaten often enough and was bossed by Vidic. 6

Wayne Rooney

Booed and jeered throughout by the Bayern supporters, but every jeer appeared to lift the United forward. Missed a great chance to put United 2-1 ahead on the hour, though, following great work by Welbeck. 7

Woody • 5 hours ago
How did Rooney get an 8?
21 • Reply•Share ›

mr-ed Woody • 2 hours ago
Now a 7 strangely...
I'm sure it was an 8 earlier when I first read the article.
No better than 5 - especially as he missed 2 sitters.

lol

Ribery is most overrated player on the planet
There are those who suggest Franck Ribery is the best player in the world behind the 'big two’. Presumably that refers to 'the big two’ leagues as opposed to just a couple of players. The only way Ribery deserves mention in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo is in a discussion about swapping World Cup Panini stickers.

The Frenchman is a good player in a competition full of truly exceptional ones. Yes, he occasionally beats his man but an end product is a hope as much as expectation. He often drags shots harmlessly wide and carries the demeanour of a footballer who has attained seriously high levels of delusions of grandeur. In short, Phil Jones probably felt he was up against a slightly upgraded version of Ashley Young. Arjen Robben, on the other hand, is world class.

Chris Bascombe is a tool of the highest order.

Ian Herbert

This was the match in which his team was supposed to tank and his own weakness be laid bare, but instead they revealed that they belonged on the stage which they will now exit for the first time in 18 years.

The high mountains of Europe are history for United and there is a long road ahead now. But Moyes has won the right to have a shot at leading them back.

couldn't agree more. lots of shots.

Within another 12 months, he was lighting up the Premier League with Chelsea. Mourinho broke the mould, he was smart, suave, supercilious and ultimately successful.

Now it's time for cool and colourful Klopp to take the leap and come to England. The Premier League would be a far more interesting place with him. He would break the mould too.

The marketplace is bustling if Klopp should choose to have a stroll through. There might be changes afoot at Arsenal or Manchester United. He might fancy a challenge like Aston Villa, West Ham or West Bromwich.

He might fancy a challenge like Aston Villa, West Ham or West Bromwich.

Aye, right

he might fancy bringing european football back to nottingham

He couldn't possibly prefer Dortmund to Stoke, it's not even in England for a start

is mercurial merry-andrew klopp ready to shamble sightlessly out of football's netherworld into the savage glare of a tier one league?

I can't think what would have attracted Mourinho to Chelsea all those years ago, but I'm sure West Brom will hold exactly the same allure for Klopp.

Gary Lineker ‏@GaryLineker 1h

Only in the Premier League could the team at the very bottom, possibly scupper a team's title aspirations.

Manuel Pellegrini suddenly resembles a house guest trying to come to terms with the relentless intensity and demanding rhythms of life in the Premier League mansion, when upstairs can be invaded by downstairs

henry winter being a sententious moron again there, where do these people get the idea from that every other league features spineless incompetents who collapse vs the grand teams? just two days ago barcelona lost to granada, bayern lost to augsburg etc etc etc

spineless incompetents who collapse vs the grand teams

Uh. Man City v Barcelona, Man Utd v Bayern....

It's obviously doubtful that Hamburg or Betis are substantially worse than West Brom, Fulham or Sunderland but you could make the case that, in terms of the number of experienced internationals and the money spent on assembling the squads, the bottom six in the PL should be more competitive for teams in the top six than in most other leagues.

because the championship is decent & well-resourced as second tier leagues go

the logic is circular: lower epl team gets a result vs a champion league side = extraordinary precisely because lower epl sides (despite being far richer than lower la liga sides) are mostly total shit so it seldom happens = the epl must be special to witness such extraordinary results, no way would anything this extraordinary happen in another country

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/269087/Ashley-Young-s-as-good-as-Messi-and-Ronaldo

from 2011 tbfttl

?

nobody without organic brain damage ever though ashley young was as good as pedro rodriguez let alone gd messi

*thought*

not arguing it wasn't stupid in 2011, just sayin he may not stand by those words today

It's going to be a banner few months for this thread what with a World Cup coming up, no need to dredge up anything from three years ago.

James Ducker @DuckerTheTimes

Lot of talk in Germany Klopp will stay at Borussia Dortmund but very much doubt he would turn down #Barca or #MUFC if offers came

WHERE NEXT FOR MOYES?

BORUSSIA DORTMUND
Jurgen Klopp could head to United in a job swap.

BAYER LEVERKUSEN
Sami Hyypia was sacked this month, leaving a vacancy.

TOTTENHAM
Tim Sherwood is on his way and Moyes has previously been linked with Spurs.

NEWCASTLE
Alan Pardew is under pressure and Mike Ashley could move for Moyes.

INTER MILAN
Walter Mazzarri’s side are 34 points off the top and his position is uncertain.

that's some punchline

The idea that Dortmund would consider Moyes is the most incredible thing I have ever read I think.

considering a "when/where will Moyes get a new management job?" poll

Looking at the prem table the only options I see for him remaining at that level are Newcastle or maybe Villa, though he could take six months and wait for the pre-Christmas panic sackings.

Neil Lennon heading south and Moyes heading north doesn't seem too much of a stretch - otherwise it's upper Championship level. I really can't see him working abroad.

Villa is the one but would he want it

he could take six months and wait for the pre-Christmas panic sackings.

That would be my advice

There's a grim inevitability at Moyes to Villa.

Carrying on the succession of failed Scottish managers there

wouldn't really have a problem with that (in fact I'd be quite chuffed), but I'm sure I'd be in the minority

He had a broadly successful, uninterrupted eleven year career in the PL. Unless he's mentally fucked, anyone below Spurs could be lucky to have him.

united maybe, they have a vacancy

xp - absolutely SV, I agree. I think his skill-set would be a pretty perfect match for Villa right now. Solid defence and an attack geared to hitting Benteke every time we get the ball is pretty much what Lambert's tried to do, but he's made a fucking pig's ear of it and has also bought appallingly while trying to play the market on the cheap. Several of the big problem areas atm seem to things which Moyes would be able to put right.

otoh I think the Villa crowd have maybe just had enough of Scottish managers for now, think the masses might be hankering after a fancy continental job when Lambert gets the boot

Joe Tarring ‏@joetarring 3h

Paul Merson tips Yannick Bolasie to play for England next season. Yannick Bolasie has 3 caps for Democratic Republic of Congo

looking forward to United's meaningless training ground exercise today being dissected by pundits with things to say