Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

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Maybe take some of the Britishes interest navel-gazing out of the proper World Cup thread I thought?

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:52 (eight years ago) Permalink


Lennon Huddlestone Wilshere Young Agbonlahor Walcott
c'mon fabio you know it makes sense

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:41 (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Maybe I shall regret going here but I wonder what it is about those guys that mightn't appeal to England's core fan demographic as much as Lamps and Stevie and Rooney and Barry

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:42 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

can't understand who chairmen/managers think they're pleasing when they buy a player in to sit on the bench and play 5 times a season.

In Scottish football, historically this has been a method used by the Celtic and Rangers to make sure they have the player and no-one else does

― I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:43 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ooooh NV

cmon seriously?

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:46 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

As long as they're winning they'll be fine

― I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:47 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I dunno. No, not seriously, but let us consider the "type" of an England "hero". Let's think of Stuart Pearce's bulging neck veins as he shouts for Carling in that ad or whatever. I mean "Englishness" is a definite thing for a lot of the England hardcore. And I definitely think the FA is more bothered about the Brand than the football, tbh.

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:48 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

There's a shitload to unpack in what are widely considered the virtues of the English game compared to the virtues that other big football nations espouse. I really really don't want to kick start a clusterfuck but it was a fleeting thought when I looked at that front 6 of darragh's up there.

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:50 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

saw the england-usa game in a south london pub where the guy behind me was a passionate england fan who shouted abuse at the team from the start, culminating in calling robert green a "fucking paki". so i could imagine this becoming a thing.

― joe, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:52 (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:53 (eight years ago) Permalink

Thought this could be a general argument about the England team rather than a race clusterfuck but am leaving the steps that led here in the interests of full disclosure.

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 09:54 (eight years ago) Permalink

Somebody told me that one at work yesterday. Got plenty of love for Becks but I rolled about laughing at the idea. He's too much of a politician to want the job I'd've thought.

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:00 (eight years ago) Permalink

yeah this was needed tbh

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:01 (eight years ago) Permalink

I suppose the model there is Klinsmann and Germany

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:01 (eight years ago) Permalink

if only for the poetry

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:01 (eight years ago) Permalink

Becks has no coaching badges, no managerial experience and has never courted the job. So on the surface he would seem a high-risk successor.

But

Classic But

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:01 (eight years ago) Permalink

becks is no klinsmann

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:01 (eight years ago) Permalink

Sheringham won't take it, seems to have no interest in coaching.

scholes hates the publicity

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:02 (eight years ago) Permalink

You're gonna be stuck with Gary Neville imo

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:02 (eight years ago) Permalink

what England needs is a player-manager.

but that man must be Maradona.

NYC Goatse.cx and Flowers (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:02 (eight years ago) Permalink

Seriously Beckham might be more use to English football right now if he got involved with FA politics à la Brooking.

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8766476.stm

g taylor talks sense here imo

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8688093.stm

this article a chastening example: According to European football's governing body Uefa, Spain had almost 15,000 Uefa A and Pro Licence coaches in 2008 - more than double the number of any other European nation. And that is despite it taking 750 study hours to acquire a Pro Licence in Spain, compared with just 245 in England.

r|t|c, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

Should go the whole hog and have John Terry as player-manager if England have no hope of anything ever for the next 10 years.

James Mitchell, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp saying that, the english u20s are looking pretty good actually

guess they always do though

r|t|c, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

Capello will get massive abuse in the media and inevitably eventually the sack, and will likely largely get off the hook here. I reckon the media closer to the truth than we are - the guy created an unhappy camp, took a poor and unadventurous squad, and in any case you're not telling me that that team couldn't've been put out to perform better than that. But I'd still keep him because:

- the guy's track record is still outstanding, even with this massive blot on it
- you don't get a track record like that without learning from your mistakes - no way are England going to turn up at another tournament looking like that
- surely this debacle is at least partly the result of him acting against his instincts - let him have free reign, and if it means a lot of bruised egos well so be it, massaged egos haven't brought results either
- he's getting paid whatever - giving possibly the outstanding club manager of the last twenty years £10m not to work for you is indefensible right now
- realistically, what's the alternative?

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

- realistically, what's the alternative?

A Scottish manager

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:08 (eight years ago) Permalink

england u-20s have always looked good, yeah.

the last england u-15 side i caught ina full match was pretty amazing, AFAIR a certain A johnson was only one of maybe three Middlesborough players in the midfield.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:08 (eight years ago) Permalink

Capello gets free rein from me for creating an unhappy camp, if the alternative is to create a happy camps of spoiled brats.

Bringing the 23 players he did, after picking what i thought was a very bright and encouraging 30 to begin with, yeah that's a black mark.

Selecting the 11-15 players he did from those 23 consistently regardless of performance- ey Fabio this ain't the league mate.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

rationally speaking capello should probably stay but the taint of failure is often insurmountable past a point

harry redknapp is the only alternative worth considering - he would do it but the tax fiddling's most likely knocked it on the head

r|t|c, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

i think whether the fa are prepared to pay £12m to scapegoat capello is going to be a good litmus test of their appetite for real reform, which is why i expect him to get the sack. if they wanted him to stay they could have said so immediately - after two weeks of speculation, he'll be glad to get out i imagine.

joe, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:11 (eight years ago) Permalink

I'd keep Capello + get rid of Lamps + Gerrard.

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

How is letting Capello have his way not going to create another unhappy camp, unless different players are involved? And as you say, Capello picked the squad. So either this was a knowing ploy to get rid of a lot of the old guard after failure, or he's not the judge of a player we might've thought he was, or there's a near-insurmountable pressure to pick guys who aren't good enough/fit enough/mentally right that will still be there whoever Capello is replaced with.

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

he's getting paid whatever - giving possibly the outstanding club manager of the last twenty years £10m not to work for you is indefensible right now

realest talk, but watch and learn

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

joe totally otm. Capello sacked, new boss, business as usual. Especially if the new boss is Arry as he would be the perfect expression of the FA as Business Ueber Alles.

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

redknapp should be able to settle with the revenue. pay them £40,000, call it a misunderstanding. it'll all be dug up again the moment england go through a bad patch but i could see a desperate fa turning a blind eye now.

joe, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

"ey Fabio this ain't the league mate" pretty much sums up dude's failings, yeah

r|t|c, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

Arry is also a great exponent of 442. Sticking with Capello would be the 451 thing to do, IMO

^yes I went there

so you want Mark Ronson to cry into your ass (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

Redknapp would be a disastrous international manager, he thrives on being able to bring in players to solve problems and if those players are just not out there in the 'market' I'm not sure he'd be able to fix things. Also the FA were pretty nervous about Venables' dodgy dealings and I'm not sure they'd take that risk with Redknapp. Also I don't want him to leave Spurs.

Hodgson at least has some experience as an international manager. He'll do.

Vulvuzela (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

Far as I can see, only 3 English managers having any degree of success at the moment: 'Arry, Hodgson (off to the 'Pool) and, errrr, Steve McClaren. Go for the younger man I say.

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

classic material from alan shearer's column in the sun today. it begins: "NO ONE likes kicking a man when he is down..."

oh yeah? http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/85000/images/_86318_alan_shearer_and_neil_lennon_after_kicking_incident300%2830-04-98%29allsport.jpg

joe, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

Remember when Kings used to lead their armies back in ye olde times? Get Prince William in there and make that sponger earn his salary from The FA.

They'll be dancing in the streets of Košice tonight (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

DAER SPURB FANZ wud u take swop caleppo and renkdapp

so you want Mark Ronson to cry into your ass (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

i can't remember where i read the slow cooking/fast food domestic league vs internationals analogy but i'd trust arry & sandra to whip a quick buffet sooner than fabio or woy tbh

r|t|c, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

Redknapp, and I don't want it to happen for two main reasons, would be the ideal manager for this group, and I think that he's done well out of players he already had at Spurs as well as buying them in Matt.

Also, that would be ignoring that he could 'bring in' any number of players like Walcott, Huddlestone, Dawson, Rodwell, Wilshere, Zamora, whoever.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

Bentley and Bent could suck it tho

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:19 (eight years ago) Permalink

Did Arry really say that about swapping a bentley for a honda on BBC after the Japan game btw?

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:19 (eight years ago) Permalink

Honda have quality cars, get into a Civic.

They'll be dancing in the streets of Košice tonight (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:20 (eight years ago) Permalink

he did

it was a groaner but the shaggy-dog delivery was kinda impressive for a pundit imo

r|t|c, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

Remember when Kings used to lead their armies back in ye olde times? Get Prince William in there and make that sponger earn his salary from The FA.

― They'll be dancing in the streets of Košice tonight (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Astride a horse = unwanted redux of Crouchch-on-as-sub high ball tactics

matthew ugh, son (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:23 (eight years ago) Permalink

er, Crouch

matthew ugh, son (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:23 (eight years ago) Permalink

DAER SPURB FANZ wud u take swop caleppo and renkdapp

― so you want Mark Ronson to cry into your ass (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes; Calippo would not

matthew ugh, son (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

would definitely have capello as the successor to arry. he'd cane bentley up and down bill nick way imo

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

sorry usually means you'll try not to let it happen again.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:36 (eight years ago) Permalink

An idea that just occurred to me - absolute squad limits. Clubs pick their 23 men on day one and are stuck with them. You *can* buy youngsters to sit in the stands, but everyone would have to be honest about it. Any kids in the 23 would be guaranteed playing time. The other kids, if they had any useful mentality whatsoever, would go elsewhere. Also a handy way of (i) shifting talent down the pyramid a bit, and (ii) keeping budgets down a little.

Of course it'd have to apply to the premier league to achieve anything, and there's almost no incentive for the premier league to agree to it. Which seems to be the problem with English football in a nutshell.

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp Try telling that to Bernie Taupin...

ninjas and lasers and gold and (snoball), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

OTM about that particular habit of Sterling's though.

Matt DC, Thursday, 12 July 2018 07:20 (five months ago) Permalink

i think it's fair enough whatever way they want to play, but there looked to be a really determined long ball plan in the first half. sterling was way advanced and they kept hoofing it to him. it was working for a while but as croatia dropped deep the signs were there, even after a forty minutes or so, that they were going to dominate the ball and control the game. loftus-cheek might emerge and improve that side in the next few years, he uses the ball a bit better than some.

FernandoHierro, Thursday, 12 July 2018 07:22 (five months ago) Permalink

Also I think there's a difference between a decisive direct plan based on long passes (and they played plenty of short ones in tight situations as well) and ignoring the coach's instructions and just hoofing it because you can't think of anything else to do. Previous England defences would have been doing that pretty much from kick off.

Matt DC, Thursday, 12 July 2018 07:27 (five months ago) Permalink

I didn't know Fernando Hierro was Irish till this morning.

Alan Alba (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 July 2018 07:39 (five months ago) Permalink

his mother was a gaeilgeoir from rossnowlagh

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 07:45 (five months ago) Permalink

Have England got any youngsters coming through who are creative midfielders?

Grealish maybe?

groovypanda, Thursday, 12 July 2018 08:47 (five months ago) Permalink

Wilshere

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 08:51 (five months ago) Permalink

winks isnt that but he is imo a possibility as a decent metronomic passer in a different formation

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 08:51 (five months ago) Permalink

Phil Foden

cajunsunday, Thursday, 12 July 2018 08:52 (five months ago) Permalink

arent there other injuries affecting that team reasonably significantly, tbf, tbf

rose fit for a start really changes things ito energy, ground covered and opposition stretched

lallana not the messiah but def the closest ye have to that missing player

AOC prob takes a sluggish Alli out of the running two games in, if hes not a starter in the middle

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 08:55 (five months ago) Permalink

Lewis Cook could get there or therabouts in time maybe.

Matt DC, Thursday, 12 July 2018 08:56 (five months ago) Permalink

foden is the great hope but when I've seen him play he's been more of an attacking mf

dele knows how to milk moments perfectly and get an edge. won the fk last night.

ogmor, Thursday, 12 July 2018 08:58 (five months ago) Permalink

think cook, winks, ward prowse prob more in the henderson role/area than any putative luke modrich

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 08:59 (five months ago) Permalink

dele is a good deal better than a moments player, but hasnt been for some time now.

agreed that in those moments hes quite advanced for an english player in getting the required result

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:00 (five months ago) Permalink

I keep forgetting that Harry Winks exists and he plays for us. If he'd been able to keep up the momentum from the first half of this season he would probably have been in the squad.

Matt DC, Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:03 (five months ago) Permalink

havent seen enough of (AM)RLC to know where he might sit

rashford development in the short term also dictates how the team might set up

course the next tournament will have a first xi full of players weve never heard of tbf, sean dyche probably working on the next england back four as we speak

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:04 (five months ago) Permalink

xp no doubt at all winks makes the squad, quite possible he makes the first xi given injuries besides, but tbh youd need to see if he kicks on next year or not. still absurdly light on games.

for now hes prob best put down as dier-level option but in a cm passing role as opposed to enforcer

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:06 (five months ago) Permalink

whens the season start lads my bloods up

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:06 (five months ago) Permalink

heh

ross barkley lads

heh

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:07 (five months ago) Permalink

dele's got that delish contempt and guile. I think the best thing about the england team has been the positional play and the runs. they were uncharacteristically fluid for a lot of the tournament & the maguire-stones-walker defence performed much better than I expected

ogmor, Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:07 (five months ago) Permalink

all fair as is what most of matts been saying tbh

but stones walker fears arent based around the most of what they do, its the two things a game they do.

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:09 (five months ago) Permalink

sean dyche probably working on the next england back four as we speak

He's got that Andrei Tarkovsky guy in this team already.

Alan Alba (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 July 2018 09:15 (five months ago) Permalink

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiAbbQOX4AEvE45.jpg

Number None, Friday, 13 July 2018 19:37 (five months ago) Permalink

LOL

Alan Alba (Tom D.), Friday, 13 July 2018 19:56 (five months ago) Permalink

says more about shots on target than england, but lol nonetheless

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 13 July 2018 20:22 (five months ago) Permalink

How does that stat even work when England have scored 12 goals in 6 matches?

Iain Mew (if), Saturday, 14 July 2018 06:47 (four months ago) Permalink

That’s from open play so free kicks, corners and penalties excluded, I guess. That’s how England scored most of their goals.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 14 July 2018 06:55 (four months ago) Permalink

Not coming come but breaking records nonetheless.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44898458

Chase Knobbe? Have you Courtney Cox? (Tom D.), Saturday, 21 July 2018 07:13 (four months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Southgate so desperate to not pick Connor Coady that he reverts to a back 4

Leon Carrotsky (Noodle Vague), Friday, 12 October 2018 21:00 (two months ago) Permalink

uh

Number None, Monday, 15 October 2018 19:24 (one month ago) Permalink

winks

Dmac TT (darraghmac), Monday, 15 October 2018 19:52 (one month ago) Permalink

poch 4 england

Dmac TT (darraghmac), Monday, 15 October 2018 19:53 (one month ago) Permalink

i presume replay will show that as absolute thuggery

Dmac TT (darraghmac), Monday, 15 October 2018 20:02 (one month ago) Permalink

the fuck do refs still ignore this cunts violence

Dmac TT (darraghmac), Monday, 15 October 2018 20:02 (one month ago) Permalink

nonsense

Dmac TT (darraghmac), Monday, 15 October 2018 20:04 (one month ago) Permalink

pretty undignified stuff this from whatdyoucallhim

Dmac TT (darraghmac), Monday, 15 October 2018 20:13 (one month ago) Permalink

mind u losing 3-1 to an eric dier team must sting

Dmac TT (darraghmac), Monday, 15 October 2018 20:13 (one month ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

seems a bit harsh moaning about this Rooney cap from anybody who didn't quibble about 50-odd before it

Tsugumo Alanshearer (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 8 November 2018 17:35 (one month ago) Permalink

12 goals and 9 assists in 19 starts this season.

legend.

hello england's rose

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 8 November 2018 17:39 (one month ago) Permalink

is every BBC journo being bunged by UEFA to pretend this nonsense "competition" is good now?

Danton Lok (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 18 November 2018 13:04 (three weeks ago) Permalink

England are celebrating this as though it's a World Cup semi-final.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Sunday, 18 November 2018 15:51 (three weeks ago) Permalink

It's their World Cup semi-final.

ROCK MUSIC (Tom D.), Sunday, 18 November 2018 16:16 (three weeks ago) Permalink

dont grouse lads if this young english team was anyone else we'd love em

rake pulture (darraghmac), Sunday, 18 November 2018 19:11 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Love Dele Alli? Like that's going to happen.

ROCK MUSIC (Tom D.), Sunday, 18 November 2018 19:19 (three weeks ago) Permalink

You have to admit there's something brilliantly batshit about a competition where if you win you go through to the semi-finals and if you lose you get relegated.

Matt DC, Sunday, 18 November 2018 19:27 (three weeks ago) Permalink

If I'd bothered to understand the competition and realised what the stakes were I'd have actually watched it.

Matt DC, Sunday, 18 November 2018 19:28 (three weeks ago) Permalink

OTM.

ROCK MUSIC (Tom D.), Sunday, 18 November 2018 19:34 (three weeks ago) Permalink

It's like Brexit or somethin', no-one knows what the fuck is going on.

ROCK MUSIC (Tom D.), Sunday, 18 November 2018 19:35 (three weeks ago) Permalink

compelling case tbph

rake pulture (darraghmac), Sunday, 18 November 2018 20:01 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Is Rooney the Tony Blair in this analogy?

Matt DC, Sunday, 18 November 2018 20:16 (three weeks ago) Permalink


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