Rangers Have gone into Administration

Are there any clubs living within their means? I think pretty much all scottish clubs owe debts, even if it's to the owners(as in Accies case) rather than banks or whatever.

also hehe xp

Can I just say that this is all brilliantly hilarious.

yes you can

https://p.twimg.com/Alo8fWQCIAAnZhV.jpg

Are there any clubs living within their means? I think pretty much all scottish clubs owe debts

Celtic have been in profit two years running and have reduced debt to a very manageable £7m (from a high of more than three times that in the MO'N era). We also have a first team worth imo much more than it cost. Hence our CEO saying we don't need Rangers.

I'd still like to shift a dozen players on, mind, and so would he. Contracts can be a pain in the arse, unless you're in administration.

I've covered it on the Finances of Football thread, but a club (like any business) should be able to carry debt so long as they can service the interest. With interest rates so low, arguably not having debt is a corporate failure to some degree because they should be able to generate better returns than their interest payments by borrowing to increase capacity or whatever (may not apply to Scotland).

Man Utd ran for years with very little debt. That's what let the Glazers in - they realised the club had so much capacity to carry a debt that they were able to use that debt to fund their takeover, then let the club pay for it.

Unconfirmed rumours suggest that Hearts are to merge with Rangers and become Heart of Midlothian Rangers Club. HMRC for short.

oooooh

queen's pork rangers

Queen Porks Rangers shrly

just playing disciplinarian, im sure she'll be gentle for such loyal friends

they need a spoonful of
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01365/alan_sugar_1365027c.jpg

theres abt ten in a can of irn bru

Celtic's (and other clubs) 'manageable' debts are still surely dependent on the current amount of money coming into football.
Dont all these clubs need the tv money as it is? That could be cut or disappear completely if Rangers go out of business. Not to mention the knock-on effect of attendances going down, no old firm derby dvds to be sold. Attendances could go down further if it was a 1 team league. Also players might decide they would rather play in a bigger league as SPL is mickey mouse, or can earn much more money as clubs cant even pay what they do now on an even bigger scale than has been happening. Better players signing from outside Scotland for Celtic might not happen. If the players playing here are of lesser quality. Automatic champs league qualification could be meaningless if you're knocked out before group stages and/or don't even get in uefa league.
Celtic and others might not need Rangers but I'm pretty damn sure they will still suffer from it.

Also players might decide they would rather play in a bigger league as SPL is mickey mouse

uhm

they already do nakh, so it's only going to happen on a larger scale

the tv money is fuck all, the great majority of celtic's money is from merchandise and the match day. the great majority of our match days are not against rangers.

i think it's probably fair to say that at least some match day revenue relies on having a rangers to rival you for the league, tho

how much is 'fuck all'? If you're £7m in debt then you need all the money you can get otherwise you need to cut back on the playing side or youth set up.

xp
yes i would think so too deems

£7m debt is fuck all. A football club is a business. One with a fairly high turnover. All business operate a debt. Our debt is consistently down year on year, despite the fact that we've not been in the champions league, which is the main financial golden egg we consistently chase.

i.e. put £7m debt into context. we sold mcgeady for £11m.

7m doesn't sound like an issue for a club the size of celtic tbph

assuming taxes are up to date

People giving it "we need Rangers" shite really need to take a look at the league tables from before they started doping their team. The SPL was *more* competitive. Scotland got to major competitions. This whole two team league shite is a direct result of fiscal irresponsibility. Fuck a rivalry.

and the idea that we need rangers as competition: the spl was actually a competition, that more than two teams had a chance to win, before rangers were bought by the financial doper david murray.

i'll bow to superior knowledge

itt, like, not as policy

the worst thing that can happen is attendances go down somewhat, especially considering we wouldnt have two guaranteed capacity games a season when we host rangers in the league. this would be more than offset by qualifying for the champions league. altho that is easier said than done. or on the other hand, by selling players more often. we have a team with an average age of 23 most games, we could sell a few of them, who were mainly frees or cheap acquisitions, for several million each, and buy reinforcements who cost similar to what they originally did, and continue in that vein, being a selling club. wouldn't be the end of the world.

fans never like being a selling club

especially a big club who is used to winning things

im of the opinion that any scottish team doing much in the champs league is a thing of the past regardless tbh.

celtic already are a selling club to an extent. if a £10million offer came for any player lawell would drive them to the airport himself.

celtic have only one the scottish cup in the last 3 years, scottish cup and league cup in the last 4? iirc.

and 3 in a row before that. havent they won more titles since 2000 than rangers or have rangers 3 in a row overtaken? id call that successful. Rangers and Celtic have been very successful since their inceptions with the exception of the odd years of dominance by 1 side i.e. both teams 9 in a row years.

People who know what they're talking about OTM.

pfunkboy, "are you on crack" is a popular internet meme for when someone is talking pish. It's not really a personal insult tbh, just an indicator that you're way off the money with most of your speculation. Which everyone has qualified with explanation when telling you that. It's not exactly ad hominem name-calling.

plus those 3 or 4 years you talk about, most celtic fans have been fans for longer than that unless they're about 6 year old.
xp

3 or 4 years, and i can remember the nine. so the majority of the time ive been a celtic supporter we've had no reason to be used to winning things. and that's been because we've been cheated, as every scottish club has been, by rangers. oh and also, if you're a taxpayer, you're also paying for rangers' successes, since a large amount of their debt got moved to murray international holdings, which is currently being propped up by the taxpayer.

fans never like being a selling club

Celtic, like every other Scottish club other than those who are stealing taxpayer's money, is already a selling club. Our board have stated that it is our policy to be a selling club - to identify and sign or develop talented young players with a sell-on value. That is why we only have a handful of players over 25 on good contracts.

presumably attendances would only go down in the short to medium term but in the long term as the redistributing cash was spent and the league slowly got more competitive they'd hopefully climb back a bit

That's what I think - I could be wrong but I'm willing to find out.

People talk like the situation of the last 25 years is worth preserving and I don't understand it - a slow steady decline for everyone, same top two every year and occasional big European nights for the big two is really what people want to protect?

First twenty years of the Scottish Premier League - "Old Firm" both in top two only four times. Since then it's been every year but one.

1975–76	Rangers		Celtic
1976–77	Celtic		Rangers
1977–78	Rangers		Aberdeen
1978–79	Celtic		Rangers
1979–80	Aberdeen	Celtic
1980–81	Celtic		Aberdeen
1981–82	Celtic		Aberdeen
1982–83	Dundee United	Celtic
1983–84	Aberdeen	Celtic
1984–85	Aberdeen	Celtic
1985–86	Celtic		Heart of Midlothian
1986–87	Rangers		Celtic
1987–88	Celtic		Heart of Midlothian
1988–89	Rangers		Aberdeen
1989–90	Rangers		Aberdeen
1990–91	Rangers		Aberdeen
1991–92	Rangers		Heart of Midlothian
1992–93	Rangers		Aberdeen
1993–94	Rangers		Aberdeen
1994–95	Rangers		Motherwell

OTM xp. Almost anything is better than that.

It will hurt Celtic btw, but that hurt will be manifest in not being able to afford big wages and hence attracting a lower quality of player, which is exactly what's happening now, so imo there's not much to lose here.

There will still be some form of tv rights as people will still want to watch Celtic away games at the very least.

I've decided, as I said before, that I like the idea of Rangers doing some reparations by coming up through the leagues and generating some sort of tv income as well as taking some sort of fanbase with them - they won't go untelevised.

I want Rangers balkanised personally, time for shooting for the moon imo.

xxp

Yes, we'll downsize to live within our means. The English league will be able to cherry pick player even more easily than they do now. The clubs will have a responsibility to develop and display talent and make the league worth watching. It doesn't need to be compared with England, or even with the current SPL, but there's no reason it can't still thrive as many other leagues in small countries throughout Europe do. With or without Rangers.

Much as I'd laugh at their demise, a Pre-Pack Rangers NewCo Phoenix club working through the leagues could be a shot in the arm for our smaller clubs and would be a welcome addition to the SPL if they were paying what they could afford just as everyone else is (except Hearts - wages still at >120% turnover I think) and if they maintained their fan base they'd once again be a strong force.

i just cant see spl clubs outwith Celtic not voting to allow a nu rangers back in.

Pre-Pack Rangers NewCo Phoenix club working through the leagues

would be fair enough as long as they dont buy out another clubs registration like the scum at Airdrie did. But i dont think Rangers 2012 FC would need to worry about not getting voted back in the SFL like Airdrie feared (hence buying the bankies)

There will still be some form of tv rights as people will still want to watch Celtic away games at the very least.

I've decided, as I said before, that I like the idea of Rangers doing some reparations by coming up through the leagues and generating some sort of tv income as well as taking some sort of fanbase with them - they won't go untelevised.

I'd rather operate within constraints and win or lose fairly with a chance of having a tilt at Europe than try and compete on the current playing field.

btw, existence of Rangers + ill gotten gains hasn't stopped some unlikely teams qualifying for Europe. More of that sort of thing on a regular basis.

You are Hearts. You cannot pay your players. Rangers owe you almost a million pounds. Rangers go "lol nae luck" then go "btw can we get back in the league and fuck you over some more?"
How do you vote?

They also owe money to several other SPL clubs (not us - apparently we were petty and out of order to demand ticket money up from for our last derby game, well played Peter Lawell on that one).

xxp

They def owe money to Caley Thistle.

they dont own Accies anything apparently but no idea if they paid up in full or an agreement was made. Not that we will have a vote.