TOMBOT and john justin should not be mods

poll it

take heed to the words that he manifest

dre creep to the mic like a phantom

ade, if it wasn't for my cool-headed approach, you would never have been able to make this post.

inspiring speech

http://hopecoaching.org/imglib/Nav_bar_real%20talk.jpg

I like you too, obv, but this is some bill clinton bullshit after I unbanned you

you people who bitch about mods are a bunch of fucking whiny ass pussies

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/scary_coworkers/image/slide8.jpg

is there a term for that kind of rhetoric^^
xxp

I like JJ's no-discussion-just-bannage approach.

Tom forgot his own DON'T BE A DICK rule this morning, it seemed like. He's generally solid tho.

when you think of what noise mods went thru to get us here

in general, there's not much in what ade said you can find fault with, even if you disagree with his conclusion. i would've liked a funnier thread title, but dude can't hit a HR every time he steps up.

lol well... touche. but tbh since you banned me in the first place it is kinda funny to be like "NOBODY WOULD'VE UNBANNED U IF IT WERENT FOR ME" :[

Kind of wish ade was able to make that post anonymously so it would be taken more seriously.

It sums up how a lot of posters feel in a non-zingy butthurt way.

how many would have to feel this way for some sort of action to be taken?

we put forth some rules and a few - very few - posters made their choice not to heed them. john justen and I are the GOOD cops around these parts. if you think you're going to get a more sympathetic approach from stet (who manages the domain, the hardware all the backstairs bullshit that keeps this up), keith (who wrote the fucking code that allows all of this to happen) or Pash (who tolerates all this garbage as the essential godfather), nevermind Ned or Matt DC or electric Jim, you're barking up the RONG 2 motherfucking tree

but thanks for providing another thread for the usual suspects to talk shit on, a healthy debate between libertarians and republicans is fundamental to a strong society

i would just like to comment that it's very clearly John JustEn

that's an e

"a lot of posters" is a lot of bullshit

and you chumps need to get along with the idea of the temp ban - four whole fucking days ain't a goddamn death sentence, I know you kids wish you lived in an Orwell novel so your existence had some meaning but it just ain't so

yeah i guess one caveat is that, since i only pay attn to a handful of boards on here, i have no idea what the state of moderation across the site is like. i just assumed u guys modded everything, idk~

btw I also want to take away your guns and raise your taxes

ok well he summed up how i feel.

i like you tom.

i just think you let emotions/alcohol/I'M A BADASS COWBOY get in the way of being the good cop you think you are.

see, i'm already doing a worse job putting it into words that ade :-\

dude it's cool, it's just we catch a lot of shit because both JJ and I are always taking credit for our actions, and tend to be a bit smarmy - that's a fact - but you can always e-mail either of us, or any of the mods, and try to figure a way out of being semibanned. Ethan and Dom took the bait today, I got sick of the meta on 77 and decided maybe I'd play their game, see who wins. Temps for both, they'll be back by Monday. I'm glad that you've seen fit to come back and comport yourself more appropriately; this ain't the SA forums, this ain't 4chan, etc. I just want people to get along. I'd have chaki back if he wasn't such a prick.

xpost to ade

I like you gr80 but do you really love this country?

yes and this board.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6434/libertyrh8.png

i think tom and john are fair moderators, the difference between them is the way in which they interact with the other posters. when john wants to assert his authority, more often than not he does so respectfully. im pretty sure he was the first person to respond to my call to have the church mods stripped of their mod rights, and even though i was trolling he still gave me a clearheaded and reasoned response.

tom on the other hand either talks down to us, posts a hueg manifesto and dramatically locks the thread or makes threads like the one that started this whole fiasco

dude it's cool, it's just we catch a lot of shit because both JJ and I are always taking credit for our actions, and tend to be a bit smarmy - that's a fact - but you can always e-mail either of us, or any of the mods, and try to figure a way out of being semibanned.

fair enough-

its true that you guys ANNOUNCE bans when other mods don't.

maybe a non-anonymous admin log would help this situation???????

there was a fiasco and i didn't even know about it. sometimes i wonder if i'm really living.

Surmounter 1694
tehresa 1235
Abbott 1168
J0rdan S. 1057
I know, right? 939

if dom weren't banned at the mo I'm sure he'd be along to post "dangerously meta" about now, so I'll do it for him

I'm serious, I think a small number of posters have concerns, and I will be glad to respond to them personally via e-mail or frankly fuck it this thread can suffice as a forum

Jordan is right and my thread on Curtis Borad today was a bit of arrogant shit-talk, perhaps, but I don't necessarily feel it was out of line, I started it to make a point that 77 was turning into another lame meta hangout for a few folks to dish gossipy "this guy!" shit instead of, you know, trying to engage anyone in discussion.

was 77 really getting to that point though? i think it was just that one thread. i think fools mostly keep it positive.

tbh i thot the 77 thread ended up pretty funny even tho it was sort of s hitty thing to start

I'm serious, I think a small number of posters have concerns, and I will be glad to respond to them personally via e-mail or frankly fuck it this thread can suffice as a forum

I dunno, how many times can you play the "vocal minority" card with how many people in how many situations before it starts to ring false? Personally, I don't hang w/ or talk to many people here offboard, am moderately cliquish with the people I do know, and have historically ignored or stayed out of a lot of board drama. But I think it's pretty clear that for the past year or two, your contentious role as a mod has been one of the major 'narratives' of this board that almost everyone here is aware of. It's a big fucking elephant in the room. I don't know if putting it to a vote or starting more threads about it is the answer, but you brushing it off every time like "I'm the best mod you've got, whether you know it or not" or "the powers to be asked me to be a mod and I'm just doing my duty, guys, it's not like I can just be a poster here and not moderate!" hasn't really worked either.

well then, take it up with somebody else other than me.
As I said prior, good fucking luck.

But I think it's pretty clear that for the past year or two, your contentious role as a mod has been one of the major 'narratives' of this board that almost everyone here is aware of.

i don't think this is true. tom (and now to a lesser extent john) is just the most visible of all the mods and they get 100% of the flack directed at "mods" as a whole

if you're not happy with your internet experience here on ILX, there are many other options, like blogspot comments, gawker comments, slashdot and the list goes fucking on

at some point you either get on the fucking boat or you fucking get off. as I recall, nobody's ever banned you personally, and the opinions that are getting "censored" amount to "so and so's a predictable fuck!" which yeah uh I dunno pretty much every poster can say that about every other fucking poster. So I'm not sure what you think you're missing, unless you like feeling like a proxy martyr, in which case, oh, well, I can't think of anything more lame to label you with.

lol xpost to everyone but what the fuck ever
FOUR LEGS GOOD TWO LEGS BAD AM I FUCKING RIGHT

But I think it's pretty clear that for the past year or two, your contentious role as a mod has been one of the major 'narratives' of this board that almost everyone here is aware of.

i don't think this is true. tom (and now to a lesser extent john) is just the most visible of all the mods and they get 100% of the flack directed at "mods" as a whole

-- electricsound, Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:04 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I dunno, maybe that's true. But I've been here 7 years, and I was scarcely aware of who the mods were, what they were doing and what flaps, if any, were going on as a result of their actions for most of the first 5. Maybe that says more about me than the board as a whole, though.

I've never been banned and a don't necessarily think every banned poster is the victim of some kind of travesty. But Tom keeps saying (sorry for all the made up paraphrases) "it's a small number of people protesting, and it's the same jackasses who keep getting themselves banned," so one of the reasons I tend to speak up is to contradict that.

1. "its just a tempban" is a bullshit defense for bad/drunk modding
2. tombot broadcasts a certain pleasure in banning/locking and i think ppl would prefer a "this hurts me more than it hurts you" approach
3. john justen gave me a PREEMPTIVE BAN i.e. i did nothing

what is the problem w/ an admin log again??

1. "its just a tempban" is a bullshit defense for bad/drunk modding

if it's for a good reason it doesn't need a defense

1. "its just a tempban" is a bullshit defense for bad/drunk modding

i can't bring any examples to mind, but then i have never read 77

http://www.miwd.uscourts.gov/COURTROOM%20TECH/Bell/WitnessStand2.jpg

i ask that question because i can think of more than 1 example where i was temp banned & i still have no fucking clue who did it or even nececssarily why, which seems kind of stupid, like i said something to tombot about it on a thread once because he was the guy i was having an exchange w/ before i got tempd & he was like dude ive never banned you ???

ive also tried to ilxmail john justen once & it either didnt go thru or he didnt reply

if you're not happy with your internet experience here on ILX, there are many other options, like blogspot comments, gawker comments, slashdot and the list goes fucking on

at some point you either get on the fucking boat or you fucking get off.

I don't see why this shouldn't cut both ways. If you don't like the way your judgement gets questioned here all the time, I'm sure there's an IDM or computer code or military or sci-fi message board out there that would be happy to let you moderate with impunity. Why do you speak like you've always been a moderator, always will be and it's beyond discussion, or like if you weren't, another mod behave exactly like you, otherwise there'd be chaos and panic in the streets?

i've TB'd you once deez, probably for being a dick

i just dont get what would be so hard about a concise log that says like "MOD ACTION: X BECAUSE: Y EVIDENCE: Z or something

can we ask about admin log here w/o getting threads locked?

test

-- chaki, Thursday, June 7, 2007 9:29 PM

1. "its just a tempban" is a bullshit defense for bad/drunk modding
2. tombot broadcasts a certain pleasure in banning/locking and i think ppl would prefer a "this hurts me more than it hurts you" approach
3. john justen gave me a PREEMPTIVE BAN i.e. i did nothing

-- gr8080, Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:21 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

OTM

nb I think Tombot should still be a mod (no comment on JJ)

wow jj has really come into his own as a mod recently huh a month and a half ago when i went on vacation im pretty sure no really knew abt his powerz

anyway i have a point to make: bitching abt tombot and tombot bitching is the new meta. in trying to quell the difficulty it was exacerbated. only worse. actually its been going on so long its the old new meta. not sure what the new meta is.

jeez sorry guys apparently my 2 HUEG CONTRAVERSIAL temp bans have made me quite the unpopular fellow around these parts.

wtf ever, sitewide modding is a thankless bullshit job that leads to people i used to get along with around here being fucking dicks to me, start a poll and vote me off the island already.

i don't remember this sort of reaction the half dozen times bo jackson overdrive got temp'd

xpost

john you're the most fair and balanced mod

I like you John! I just can't really pass judgment on your modding because I don't know what you've done other than tempban gr80

yeah well fuck it its boring, id rather go back to talking shit freely and not worrying about it. i will miss changable username tho.

fair enough-

its true that you guys ANNOUNCE bans when other mods don't.

maybe a non-anonymous admin log would help this situation???????

Grady, I've written an admin log, but for the reasons we discussed ages ago, I will never never never write an admin log that shows who did the action. I don't think admin log is a good idea anyway; my opinion is that it will create more of the above nonsense rather than less; we'll see, I guess. But given that I know you're not the type that's going to cause off-board hassle for someone, even if you did know who it was, I'd like to know what value it is to you to know who it was performed the moderator action...

Worth noting that the people that are being given grief above are in favour of having admin log. It's mainly me, and to a lesser extent some others who don't want it. Also, Tom is entirely right about me being less likely to be sympathetic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ndo37LMzmU

(xpost)

keith i guess i honestly give a fuck about an admin log any more

appreciate all the hard work though

keith i guess i honestly dont give a fuck about an admin log any more

still appreciate all the hard work though

what name did 'some dude' used to post as?

alex in baltimore

I know no one gives a shit about my opinion but i want to echo what grady and curtis were saying upthread, that 1 of the major grievances w/ ur modding tom is the pleasure you take in it and the need to be super hardman about it, i know thats ur ilx persona and some ppl eat it up and think its lolarious, but id be willing to swallow shit i disagreed w/ u about a lot more easily if it was done a less gleefully

I don't see why this shouldn't cut both ways. If you don't like the way your judgement gets questioned here all the time, I'm sure there's an IDM or computer code or military or sci-fi message board out there that would be happy to let you moderate with impunity. Why do you speak like you've always been a moderator, always will be and it's beyond discussion, or like if you weren't, another mod behave exactly like you, otherwise there'd be chaos and panic in the streets?

^^ this is frankly pretty fair too

these meta arguments are bullshit and a waste of time but i want to cast a vote of confidence in tom's modding. also i totally approve of him laying the smackdown on the creepier/more pathetic sections of ilx. tough luv innit, some people clearly wouldn't get the message any other way.

Everyone gotta realise that it must be hard for Tom attempting to continue as the less popular half of a once-successful double act. Anyone would turn into a vindictive drunken crybaby once in a while under those circumstances.

I don't really have a clue what's been going down here (hey Curtis can I have a 77 invite please?) but I think Tom's pretty restrained when you consider the amount of personal shit that gets thrown at him and never gets mentioned in these arguments.

(xpost - how's that for timing?)

Tom's pretty restrained when you consider the amount of personal shit that gets thrown at him

chicken/egg

In any case it should be pretty obvious that a temp ban is both a warning and a 'take some time to cool down'. It'd be awesome if we actually had a yellow card graphic to go with it.

On a personal level I've realised that getting into prolonged and aggressive arguments with posters over mod decisions is a waste of time when one calmly argued response usually does the trick, but I can't really blame other mods for flipping out occasionally given how infuriating moderating this place can be from time to time.

Matt, I've done yellow carding too, though it's not combined with a temp ban.

Can we have a feature when, instead of a ban, all the usual text on ILX is replaced with 'HEY EVERYONE I'M NOT DOING ANY WORK' in massive letters, preferably flashing in six different colours?

Accompanied with music

In any case it should be pretty obvious that a temp ban is both a warning and a 'take some time to cool down'. It'd be awesome if we actually had a yellow card graphic to go with it.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but sometimes the person getting the most heated and deserves a warning or some time to cool down is the guy banning other people. I feel like there should be a better recourse than everyone dealing with it and shrugging, "Oh well, the guy in charge is being an asshole today, and can you blame him? Being in charge is hard work." Who watches the watchmen, etc.

"Oh well, the guy in charge is being an asshole today, and can you blame him? Being in charge is hard work."

not reflected in politics threads funnily enough

there should be a better recourse than everyone dealing with it and shrugging, "Oh well, the guy in charge is being an asshole today, and can you blame him? Being in charge is hard work."

That is an excellent response! Especially if the alternative is a dozen threads of bullshit meta whining.

Or you know, shrugging and just getting on with whatever tedious work task you're actually being paid for.

people being all precious about this remind me of me when i complained about noise board modding setting dangerous precedent.

i agree, this is all your fault

excellent

Don't get me wrong, I shrugged it off the first 50 times that I read a thread and thought "Hmmm, 2 guys were being dicks here, but only one of them seems to be getting banned and having their posts deleted and the other one is free to stir shit on other threads, I wonder why that is." It just gets a little old, watching this one-sided dance over and over, and get worse over time now. And again, I don't generally take a lot of interest in board drama, but if the excuse continually being made is "Not many people care about this," then I'm going to have cankles and gr8080's and whoever else's backs when they speak up about it, preciousness be damned.

you don't actually have to watch the one-sided dance over and over if you don't want to

i'd be a lot more worried if it wasn't the same people getting banned every time and the same people complaining every time. that suggests a fundamental disagreement in how ILXors (and moderators) should be allowed to behave but not something that can ever really be resolved (so everyone just goes round in circles every few weeks). the number of mods and the number of banned/complainers seems roughly the same and it makes ILX seem an incredibly tiny place as opposed to somewhere you could get a response as big as to a poll like the almost complete lack of moderation is one of ilxs real strengths (agree/disagree?)

do you still have all 82 of those email accounts?

oh ye have little faith

mothers against drunk modders sez don't mod drunk

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/madd-ad.jpg

can we just get to the stage where we agree to track the 53 that voted yes and ban them as a subtle warning?

Yes, your poll was very big, now stop waving it around like that.

Is the idea that this isn't a problem that deserves to be discussed until or unless more than half of all the hundreds of people who look at different parts of this board for different amounts of time care about it? If only one person has to complain about a meta post for there to be a delete or ban, why do we need to reach some magical quota number of complaints to address a persistent issue regarding those deletions and bans?

kind of curious what the rationale behind no admin log is? there was one in old ilx and I don't recall it ever causing a problem. I guess I can understand keith's rationale for not letting the general public see who took the action, but also don't like the general mysterioso secrecy having no admin log entails. it's like an insurance policy against mods getting crazy.

I also don't like the idea of banning people "because they're dicks". unless someone's specifically and clearly broken a published ilx rule then let them be. but we're in the bizarro world now when general site modding is in question and jw lobbies to have lj unbanned from noize borad.

make that "having an admin log is like an insurance policy against mods getting crazy"

xpost to some dude: partly because of the inherent hierarchy re mods and non-mods. partly because different boards have, for better or worse, established different cultures so consistency is never going to happen (see banning on noise board being seen as just a bit of fun, which would never done elsewhere). what's the alternative? everybody's requests are granted meaning constant loop?

Edward there is a whole thread about this where all the arguments are put forward. Admin log has been developed and will be rolled out shortly, as Keith said upthread.

maybe we could have a list of posters that will be banned for the smallest provocation of any sort, and a list of posters of whom the smallest provocation of any sort will result in a ban.

that would clear things up much more quickly than going over what is/isn't "meta", and would, let's face it, be a hell of a lot more accurate in any case.

^^ I like this idea. Make the "inherent heirarchy" into a flowchart we can all look at and understand.

yeah lets have a "permanent probation" list and a "do not touch" list

let's use "quotemarks" more

darraghmac otm (first time for everything)

"quotation marks" are a "useful" way to "set off" "titles" of things like "lists" and not always "indicative" of "sarcasm" you "limey"

xpost- steady on, that's edging on meta snark territory.

max is so "feisty"

I try and moderate fairly as much as possible and I certainly don't victimise people based on my personal opinions of them but I'm not going to give a Nude Spock alias the same benefit of the doubt as, say, some perfectly innocuous dude who posts on sports threads. Some people are more likely to be regarded with suspicion by mods than others, usually as a direct result of their own behaviour.

Nude Spock could post about snooker for weeks without bothering anyone, but as soon as someone found out who he was, he would be banned because mods are not prepared to put up with him any more and are not willing to treat him like any old poster. That's one extreme, but some people are closer to that extreme than others. Dom is one of them. It's not like "ooh this poster is being victimised when others are getting off with impunity". We've actually been pretty fucking lenient with Dom all things considered and that's because when he's not being a dick he makes a strong contribution and starts a lot of decent threads. I don't ever want to have to ban him on a permanent basis, I just want him to stop being such a creep.

Also the passive-aggressive stuff here is really annoying. I'm trying to answer honestly and fairly here so please stop.

(Disclaimer, not seen the 77 thread in question, I'm speaking in general terms here)

some perfectly innocuous dude

going on the future username list

matt i commend u as i always have for actually responding with paragraphs in a reasonable tone instead of one-line condescending snark

Yeah, me too. I will say, though, that Dom's mischief is generally kind of impish and benign, even when it has a target that's someone else on the board. It's usually the response to his antics that makes it all seem like some kind of crazy blood feud.

Mac: But our shenanigans are cheeky and fun
Thorny: And his shenanigans are cruel and tragic

I'm not saying Tombot's modding has been unfair, but I do agree with the people who say that the way he posts about his modding, which makes it look like he gets personal kicks from it, isn't good behaviour. It makes it look like his modding decisions have been made for personal reasons even if that's not true. I don't think that's a good behaviour from a moderator, because it makes his actions seem suspect, and if you can't know the exact reasons behind them except for some aggressive posts on random threads, can you really blame folks for thinking he's not a fair mod? That's why I too think that a more "objective" admin log, which would just state "person X temp-banned for reason Y", would make moderation feel more fair.

I don't think admin log is a good idea anyway; my opinion is that it will create more of the above nonsense rather than less; we'll see, I guess.

What are you basing this assumption on? Like Edward said, we used to have have an admin log in old ILX for years, and I can't remember it ever causing any problems.

Worth noting that the people that are being given grief above are in favour of having admin log. It's mainly me, and to a lesser extent some others who don't want it.

As far as I know I've never been banned or moderated for any reason, but I am in favour of the admin log and, in general, cool-headed behaviour from the mods, even when they know they're right.

Also the passive-aggressive stuff here is really annoying. I'm trying to answer honestly and fairly here so please stop.

sorry if anything i've posted came off like that matt. my post was serious, but i don't think anything said here has been in reference to your modding.

i also agree/sympathise with just about everything you've said wrt the frustation of modding, but posting here without mod powers can be a pretty frustrating experience too.

(Disclaimer, not seen the 77 thread in question, I'm speaking in general terms here)

-- Matt DC, 28 August 2008 13:58 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i don't usually have any problem with tombot's modding either, but this was some next level bullsh1t, and maybe you should have a read before excusing it with the normal (probably understandable) mod replies.

Just to be clear, this doesn't mean I'm against banning people for being creeps, just that those decisions should appear to be made on objective basis.

(x-post)

we used to have have an admin log in old ILX for years, and I can't remember it ever causing any problems

jesus h christ. you're saying that because we had an admin log nobody ever started complaint threads about people they liked getting banned?

admin log will make zero difference to the frequency of such threads and ban decisions (but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a neat thing to have).

Well yeah, but I don't think the problems have really decreased after losing the admin log, and certain problems which the admin log could solve (the question of the objectivity/transparency of the mods) seem to have increased.

Having now seen the thread in question there's no doubt in my mind that Dom made that pop at Tom knowing full well it would result in a ban and a lengthy meta clusterfuck, which presumably he is watching now with a large bag of popcorn. Well done all concerned.

But yeah, that was badly worded, what I meant is that I can't recall the presence of the admin log causing any more problems than its absence has done now.

(x-post)

Forget the admin log, let's just do up the mod/non-mod heirarchy in a D&D style and let Tom be the level 8 dungeon master already.

Having now seen the thread in question there's no doubt in my mind that Dom made that pop at Tom knowing full well it would result in a ban and a lengthy meta clusterfuck, which presumably he is watching now with a large bag of popcorn. Well done all concerned.

i think we can all agree that tom, the person who started that thread, is entirely blameless in this whole debacle. he's really the victim, fi you think about it. we should do a whip round.

http://www.didntyouhear.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/vanilla_ice-to_the_extreme_album_cover.jpg

im often lold by toms modding - its charismatic absurd quality is in keeping w/the best aspects of the bord - problem is hes targeting others who embody those qualities too

in life its important to know who yr natural allies are

if chaki had the balls to light himself on fire he'd have done it years ago

-- El Tomboto, 27 August 2008 18:50 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gershy would light somebody else on fire, and then say it wasn't him

-- El Tomboto, 27 August 2008 18:50 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

heave would only light himself on fire if you told him there was money in it

-- El Tomboto, 27 August 2008 18:50 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

this isn't bannable meta coming out of dom's mouth? interesting.

It's gonna be big fun when Tom jumps back into the thread and reads us all the same "This is America, if you don't like it GO TO RUSSIA, COMMIE" riot act as usual, ain't it? We'll go right back to square one, he'll keep pulling the same stunts, and we'll bide our time til the next clusterfuck.

have we really gotten to the point where that sort of talk is banable? like we cant discuss the bord and posters on it? did this happen when i was gone?

xp

who are u

Or I can just stop modding except to fulfill specific requests. Ned's sitewide now, and he doesn't have to worry about 77.

That would be cool.

Darragh that wouldn't even be approaching bannable meta no matter who it was.

So from now on, whenever you've been banned, just assume it wasn't me. Got that Dom?

how many people *honestly* don't like tom's modding? like five? six, maybe? i think he mods with a pretty good sense of humor. for all the shit he gets flung at him about his personal life, i think he handles it all pretty well.

modding only in response to requests would be great for all the mods - the motherly tendency to guide the bord is futile anyway - gotta let it do its thing maaaaan

fwiw, I thought Pashmina was pretty clear on the http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?action=showall&boardid=40&threadid=58899 thread a few months ago about zero tolerance regarding "Meta snidiness behind people's backs on one of the smaller boards or on board 77" and discussing "people who don't even post here anymore." Maybe that policy has changed already, though, I dunno. (xpost to Matt)

lol there is no policy this place is a total clusterfuck-shitstorm and thats how come we luv it so

be the river not the rock

Some dude, did you deliberately overlook "Ad hominem snide at any other poster about IRL things that are not under discussion on that thread"?

http://www.avocadocentral.com/images/sublevel/media/thumbviewer/popup/Aji-Amarillo-Avocado-Tostada.jpg

I mean, you can't omit something and then go "look at the inconsistency!"

"some dude" has lined up so many straw men that I've lost count.

omg n/a that looks SO TASTY

http://www.bahamabreeze.com/images/press/BB-GrldChickTostada-1_12_06.jpg

http://www.laurensveganjournal.org/pictures/BlackBeanTostada.jpg

I want one of these right now:

http://www.jenius.com.au/images/pizza-e-birra_prosciutto.jpg

http://www.santafemerimbula.com.au/pictures/santafefood/Chicken%20&%20Smokey%20Bacon%20Tostada.jpg

eh avocados are one of my favorite things but those all look pretty generic tbh

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Tostada_de_tinga.jpg

which strawmen pash? im genuinely interested in ur opinion on this, since i think (gershy aside) youve got the best track record as a mod

http://andywindak.com/ppk/02-04-08/tostada-3.jpg

http://ebolagirlie.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/tostada1.jpg

wtf is that kale

http://www.vanesscipes.com/wp-content/uploads/images/Tostada.jpg

eat good mexican food twice weekly and avoid anonymous arguments with virtual strangers where you can show off your cynicism and quick quipping utility belt; imo u would be wise 2 heed my words.

that's directed at all gods chillun, btw

unfair on countries that don't border mexico

Yeah sorry I'm getting too far up into this argument without having all the context and did cherry-pick from a very long post, not trying to be glib here.

But what max said: my strawmen, show me them. I've referred to mods, to people being banned, to other people making points, all by name, and I think it's generally been clear who I mean when I refer to "some people" or "a lot of people" or whatever.

btw once tom said something on 77 jokingly about letting difft people control the board at difft times which i think is an amazing and lolarious idea

its like radio djs, you can tune into ilx when your fave mod is modding

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2140/2189916287_31398ea690.jpg

under those circumstances substitute "polish" "italian" or "thai" for quotemarksmexicanquotemarks xp

i think Matt is focussing too much on this one instance of Dom being banned, which isn't what is being discussed here. i just can't tell if that's a sincere mistake or something more rhetorical.

http://www.dineouthere.com/images/tequila-kitchen-01.jpg

The church would be interesting borad if once a week two people were elected borad mods as chosen at random by one permamod who exerted no power other than that. I would enjoy playing in that flavor of the month petri dish.

I am ordering empanadas today; this thread is controlling me

o where u getting them from

"if two people were elected borad mods FOR ONE WEEK ONLY " of course

Some dude, did you deliberately overlook "Ad hominem snide at any other poster about IRL things that are not under discussion on that thread"?

-- Matt DC, 28 August 2008 14:40 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i'm not even close to being in the 'opposite' camp to you here matt, i know tombot posted all that stuff to get a reaction out of certain posters, but isn't that just what dom does? (not in any way defending having a personal go at tombot, but as far as i can recall, uh that was waaaaaay after that thread had started and the refs to chaki etc had been posted)

photos of delicious ethnic food aside, which i'm sure we can all agree is what we're all on ILX for

the church WAS an interesting board xpost

empanada mama!
http://events.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/dining/reviews/14unde.html
v v tasty

im thinking abt that arepas place on 7th st for dinner

kinda over pricd tho

Yeah I am very much focussing on a specific incident here. Fuck doing Trial By ILX for anyone really.

wait, are you saying you disapprove of posters discussing the moderation of the board?

oh hay i 've been there, forks!

USA apple pie empanada is aces.

are you saying you disapprove of posters discussing the moderation of the board?

No.

the church WAS an interesting board xpost

-- darraghmac, Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:52 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

*arches eyebrow*

mods closing ranks + rhetoric + obfuscation. a tried and tested formula.

fwiw what dom said on that thread was way worse than mere "meta snidiness"

http://www.festivalsupplies.co.uk/images/breakfast.jpg

That looks foul. The parsley looks slightly embarassed.

I don't even know what this is between the bacon and the fried bread.

Reading some of this thread, you'd get the impression that Tom and John seem to spend all their time dominating other posters, and that they do it for no reason other than spite, machismo and drunkenness. This is bullshit.

There's an example upthread of perception vs reality. Adrian complains about Tom and John being moderators. Tom points out that if it wasn't for the fact that he unbanned Adrian, Adrian wouldn't be able to raise this. Adrian responds that Tom banned him in the first place. The whole story isn't being told here, though, is it? Nobody mentions that Tom didn't just ban Adrian for no reason, Adrian was baiting other posters in a really obnoxious way. Nor does anybody mention that Tom took the time to have an email dialog with Adrian about this before unbanning him from the site*. I've seen Tom do stuff like this loads of times since we added him as a sitewide mod, he gets no credit for the time he spends thinking about & acting on shit like this, people just bitch at him because his low tolerance for meta snidery is expressed in more upfront terms than mine or Matt's or whoever & say he's drunk. Believe me this shit fucks me off just as much at it does Tom &/or John. Just because I don't post in the same way as Tom does doesn't mean I don't feel the same way about it. I'm really fucking sick of seeing the same people tossing out the same meta snide bitchery, and seeing people cheer them on, often from the "safety" of the private board. It's fucking truly pathetic juvenile behaviour, and it's been escalating over the last few weeks. Some people need to cut it the fuck out, and a bunch of other people need to learn the difference between "mischievous" and "malicious" and act acordingly. I'm too pissed off about this to adeqately express how I feel about it. Never in my life have I seen a board or list which trolls itself like this one does. I just don't get it.

The short version I guess is if a few people cut out acting like dicks and a few more people stopped cheering on their worst tendencies & cut out the drama queenery then I'm pretty sure that the alleged "problem" with Tom would certainly cease being a "problem" very quickly.

(*not getting at you here Ade, yr a funny guy w/an unusual outlook & i like you, but you were way out of line baiting those ppl like that)

poll it

-- blueski, Thursday, 28 August 2008 01:58 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Link

er, duh! like DEMOCRAZY is ever an answer!

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=63&threadid=1208

the church WAS an interesting board xpost

-- darraghmac, Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:52 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

*arches eyebrow*

-- special guest stars mark bronson, 28 August 2008 14:56 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

woah, woah- i meant before it was 'the church'. anyway, how would i know, i'm banned.

lol Matt you're so right, i'm sorry. i don't know what that is next to the "bacon" either!

this is a little better
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/369538179_6e08629184.jpg?v=0

oops also

ADMIN POLL: IMPORTANT VOTE

The short version I guess is if a few people cut out acting like dicks and a few more people stopped cheering on their worst tendencies & cut out the drama queenery then I'm pretty sure that the alleged "problem" with Tom would certainly cease being a "problem" very quickly.

I agree! And I think people need to stop encouraging the drama by starting intentionally provocative clusterfuck threads! Including poster "El Tomboto"!

this one is a bit better

http://www.londondailypicture.com/images/october_2007/english-breakfast-blackpudding-min.jpg

woah, woah- i meant before it was 'the church'. anyway, how would i know, i'm banned.

-- darraghmac, Thursday, 28 August 2008 16:09 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Ah come on now, you deserved it, you can't just go round pointing out the small number of posts on a board willy-nilly

The short version I guess is if a few people cut out acting like dicks and a few more people stopped cheering on their worst tendencies & cut out the drama queenery then I'm pretty sure that the alleged "problem" with Tom would certainly cease being a "problem" very quickly.

I agree! And I think people need to stop encouraging the drama by starting intentionally provocative clusterfuck threads! Including poster "El Tomboto"!

-- Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:12 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

hoos

ADMIN: This is not a democracy

we have done this a few times before.

curtis, why so disingenuous? you seem to love encouraging the posters who love to stir up the most trouble

what trouble do I encourage?

ilx dirty little secret: the problem posters are often the best posters

WAHT A BORD @ DO??!??!!

ilx dirty little secret: the problem posters are often the best posters

ain't true in the slightest!

lol^

we used to have have an admin log in old ILX for years, and I can't remember it ever causing any problems

jesus h christ. you're saying that because we had an admin log nobody ever started complaint threads about people they liked getting banned?

uh, no, I was wondering what the basis was for keith's objection to an admin log. maybe you should cut back on the caffeine consumption?

anyway, glad to hear an admin log's in the works. thx guys!

blueski i don't even like mushrooms and that looks pretty, pretty good

thanks surm, 'preciate it

i think ice craem is wrong too

booooring

this horrifically malicious thread everyone's talking about is making me curious but I'm philosophically opposed to private borads so I guess I'll just have to wonder

booooring or obnooooxious. that's the choice.

uh, no, I was wondering what the basis was for keith's objection to an admin log. maybe you should cut back on the caffeine consumption?

you do know my comment was directed to tuomas and not you right?

what trouble do I encourage?

-- Curt1s Stephens, Friday, August 29, 2008 1:19 AM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

i've never read 77 so i can't speak for that, but to me you've always come across very supportive of many of the posters the mods have had trouble with, now and in the past. i have no personal beef with you, but i don't really understand where you're coming from sometimes with regards to this board

booooring or obnooooxious. that's the choice.

-- blueski, Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:25 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

troo

mods have decided for us which one shall prevail

this horrifically malicious thread everyone's talking about is making me curious but I'm philosophically opposed to private borads so I guess I'll just have to wonder

-- Edward III, Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:24 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

- tombot starts thread saying let's have a thread for all the awful, terrible, etc., "meta people", kind of inviting the meta in.
- meta ensues
- in the fracas, dom got banhammered, in a suicide-by-cop stylee
- more meta ensues

can think of a number of posters who manage to be boring and obnoxious all at once.

Just because I like funny posts by certain people doesn't mean I like the not-funny immature stuff they do that ppl get pissed off about. Dom deserved his tempban (and I'm sure he fully expected it), what he said was inexcusable and not funny.

don't forget creepy xp

well i lold

I just happen to think that Tombot is also occasionally guilty of stirring shit & inventing new drama & generally not keepin it positive

fair enough xposts

EVERYONE is occasionally guilty of stirring shit and inventing new drama and generally not keeping it positive. That's a fact of life. The issue at hand here is whether John and Tom do it as often as the people who are getting hit with temp bans. Obviously, some people think they do and some people think they don't. Unfortunately, among the people who think they don't are the people who control/run the site; THEY are the ones you need to convince, not ILX in general. Furthermore, if your argument is based upon the fact that they banned posters that have been complained about by multiple people over an extended period of time, you are not going to be very convincing, particularly when some of these bans actually have nothing to do with them (gershy being a great example here).

If people are going to go out of their way to act like douchebags towards people with the power to ban them, they shouldn't be surprised and shocked when those people say "enough is enough" and ban them. It's not fucking rocket science. It's not really fair, either, but neither is life. Deal with it.

i've never read 77 so i can't speak for that, but to me you've always come across very supportive of many of the posters the mods have had trouble with, now and in the past. i have no personal beef with you, but i don't really understand where you're coming from sometimes with regards to this board

-- electricsound, Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:25 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is pretty weak!!! it seems to me like a lot of the mods are hiding behind "well ive never read 77 so im just going to assume that everything there is horrible cruel meta" when roughly 20% of it is meta and less than 5% is horrible or cruel

Dan I think tombot is a good mod and my posts aren't really about ppl getting banned - my issue is that Tombot (as a poster, not even as a mod) is egging on the people who are "going out of their way" to act like douchebags.

also calling mods out when they make lame decisions != being "very supportive" of any poster

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w113/MeetaA/Food/StrawberryMirrorCake02.jpg

did you ask before using?

Did you Ask Before Using!?

lol xp

http://i.timeinc.net/recipes/i/recipes/ck/01/11/pumpkin-pie-ck-521671-l.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/recipes/i/recipes/ck/06/11/pecan-pie-ck-1545731-x.jpg

it seems to me like a lot of the mods are hiding behind "well ive never read 77 so im just going to assume that everything there is horrible cruel meta"

Max I don't think any of the mods are saying this at all.

pecan fucking pie

http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2006/09/10/435856/EdwardsPecanPie.JPG

http://i.timeinc.net/recipes/i/recipes/sl/06/07/key-lime-pie-sl-1206119-l.jpg

http://images.teamsugar.com/files/users/1/17470/35_2007/blueberry-pie-ck-222994-l.jpg

http://katieprofunda.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/chocolate-pecan-pie.jpg

guess not

If people are going to go out of their way to act like douchebags towards people with the power to ban them, they shouldn't be surprised and shocked when those people say "enough is enough" and ban them.

stretching the definitions of 'going out of your way' by some margin, when a mod starts a thread calling specific posters out for no apparent reason. dom tempban was totally deserved and no-one's disputed that.

but then i don't know what set tombot off towards starting that thread, and as i've already said normally he's A++ in my book as a mod and poster.

omggggggggggggggggggggggg n/a otm

i don't assume anything about 77 - i only talk about what i've actually seen

http://i.timeinc.net/recipes/i/recipes/sl/02/11/pecan-pie-sl-363943-l.jpg

http://asweetpea.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/bostini-cream-pie.jpg

why did I have meta before breakfast

Man, is that British "food" up there before the pie?
http://trulyyours.com/images/Proud%20to%20be%20An%20American%20Flag.jpg

http://i.timeinc.net/recipes/i/recipes/sl/03142008/brownie-pie-sl-257851-l.jpg

So much I could say, but most of it has been said, most cogently by Pash and Dan.

(And if anyone wants to see that as 'mods closing ranks' or somesuch talk, then, from the bottom of my lovely little heart, go FUCK yourself.)

And I'll leave it at that.

Seriously can we simmer down the 'us v them' shit?

please do

How private can a board be when invitations are easier to get than Thrifty Nickel flyers?

hey forks how's your "hot dog"?

n/a lovin it

http://www.kansasstatefair.com/photo-gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2599&g2_serialNumber=1

How private can a board be when invitations are easier to get than Thrifty Nickel flyers?

oh god let's not go there again

also can we do something about this raggett character, he's being a real dick

kind of a personal question there blueski, but she's good.
http://tofuhut.racknine.net/2007/Banjo/DSCN1262.JPG

you do know my comment was directed to tuomas and not you right?

well tuomas was pretty much directly quoting me and I don't think that's what either of us were getting at but anyway whatever fergit it k thx bye

Tumoas, Ed:

My objection to an admin log is not that it will necessarily make things worse, because I don't think that. I do think it will not make things better. Often it is couched that the only reason people are complaining about some moderator action is because there is no admin log where they could have found out, and there's an implication that there would be a lot less meta-noise if they could just see it in an admin log.

I am quite convinced that being able to see what happened will not be linked to a reduction in complaints in moderator actions, because the two don't appear linked to me. I don't think it'll make it worse, because people find out anyway, so in many ways the admin log is quite superfluous. I think this is pretty much in line with old ILX, where people did complain about things they saw in the admin log. I don't actually think the amount of complaints has increased or reduced since then.

In any event, I have written it, and will implement it once I do a few more things and I get a new broadband provider, one that works.

My main objection was to having a moderator's name associated viewable alongside an admin action, which I still object to for the reasons discussed on the admin log thread. I suspect I will object to this until my dying day.

Oh and incidentally, if it took no work to do, then I wouldn't object to doing it, even if it didn't make any difference, but it does cost me time and effort, so I like to spend that time and effort on things that aren't wasted.

TL;DR. please provide capsule review.

I don't argue that an admin log will reduce complaints overall. it's likely to increase complaints but will also reduce general queries about mod actions, so in terms of traffic it's likely to be a wash. but in a "who watches the watchmen" sense it's an important thing to have.

srsly though, thanks for taking the time and effort to code something you see no value in.

from the bottom of my lovely little heart, go FUCK yourself

Oh my gosh, Ned!!!!

You are a swell guy.

The issue at hand here is whether John and Tom do it as often as the people who are getting hit with temp bans. Obviously, some people think they do and some people think they don't. Unfortunately, among the people who think they don't are the people who control/run the site; THEY are the ones you need to convince, not ILX in general.

yeah, see, that's what i was tryna get at. i didn't mean for this to turn into a PILE ON TOM thread; this is addressed to whoever is in charge of this shit (keith? stet? idk) cuz yall need to get ur acts 2gether. tom's just a dude tryin to do a job that he doesn't have the temperament for, and that's not a slam on him at all - it's just like, y'know, starting a defensive tackle at free safety.

Cool Cankles because I am entirely supportive of Tom on this. Thanks for your support.

And JJ for that matter.

but in a "who watches the watchmen" sense it's an important thing to have.

This is true, if (a) it actually needs it and (b) if you distrusted the watchmen, who are the guys in charge of admin log, why would you trust that they (i.e. me) made sure that everything was properly recorded to the admin log?

hi

huh

well that's settled

lol what support? i'm calling you out for being the retard who put these dudes in charge in the first place!

out of curiosity, cankles, since people seem to understand doms temp ban, was there any particular reason you included me in this complaint, or were you just all riled up and living in the moment?

he was talking about john justin

that guy gets me into so many awkward situations

but you get out of them justin the nick of time

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll70/renny_038/emotion/emotions%20gif/13368.gif

I have a few complaints about this BLAKE BEYONCE character.

Keith = Obama
Cankles = McCain

G'night folks.

yeah i drew that same comparison earlier tonight after mccain spoke out in favor of an admin log

I think Tom is doin' a fine job, and I wish more of the mods had shorter tempers and didnt put up with as *much* shit.

trayce temp banned

LOL

cankles is a black man.

Trayce too.

; )

You know, if there were only watchers watching the watchmen watching the lamemen, I would have been temp-banned a long time ago.

And people would still mistake you for Jess.

i tried to change it, like a lot.

i think the MODS were blocking that shit.

honestly

r u drunk?

jess RIP

gr8080: yeah but j/k and good vibes. wanna change ma name!

yeah dude you post a little weird when youre drunk

also please never ever again talk about being horny on ILX

rules to live by

but in a "who watches the watchmen" sense it's an important thing to have.

This is true, if (a) it actually needs it and (b) if you distrusted the watchmen, who are the guys in charge of admin log, why would you trust that they (i.e. me) made sure that everything was properly recorded to the admin log?

I'm on another forum (local and a lot smaller than ilx) where there's no admin log. but no one's ever been banned there and the mods are around mostly to make sure the thing stays up and running. however, ilx is a forum where "controversial mod edit" is a meme, so it's hard to claim it doesn't need it. (also, "need" is a funny word, can it keep running without it, sure, but obv a number of people here desire one)

re: trusting that everything is properly recorded to the log... the idea is that there are two levels here; a programmer develops an admin log where the system automatically records all changes (or changes of a certain type), and mods would not have the ability to change entries in the admin log. if a mod tampers with entries in the admin log you've got to question their motivation for doing so.

most auditing measures rely on the fact that there isn't collusion to defraud the auditing mechanism. if people collaborate to defraud, then yeah, there's nothing you can do. the assumption here is that the audit mechanism makes transparent the actions of individuals in a certain role (i.e. mods). one would assume that if you made abbott a mod then you/pash/tom/ned would like to know if, in a fit of yucca spine poisoning induced delirium, she went and banned a random bunch of people and deleted half the threads in de subjectivism.

Yeah, a log isn't as big a deal to me as it is to other people, but it seems like it would at the very least eliminate some of the kind of mystery and ambiguity of the moderation. One time when I was giving Tombot a hard time about modding, I brought up the fact that when Jess went on a rampage deleting threads all over the place a couple years ago, it seemed more funny and harmless, partly because it wasn't that malicious and partly because there was a log so it was at least easy to see what was going on and there wasn't a ton of "where did my thread go?" controversy and finger pointing that tends to go on now. Of course, I said that in a more confrontational way and Tom called me a cunt and locked the thread so he could have the last word, but those were crazy times, we can laugh about it now.

Yeah I think we discussed the Jess thing at the time and I put in something to not allow anyone to delete threads unless they were on the new answers page (and hence people, wll other mods at least, would see them and take action), so not sure about admin log being necessary there, even if it was how things were found out then.

FWIW as I say, my main problem with admin log is the implication that somehow there will be less noise because of its presence. I suspect the only less noise there will be is down to people not complaining about the lack of an admin log!

I don't think there'll be less noise per se, or if that should be the goal. But it'd be nice if people knew who and what they were making noise about, instead of saying "someone deleted my post" or "who banned so-and-so?" or just assuming it was someone like Tom or JJ when it could've been any number of mods.

Yes... I think my worry is that there might actually be more noise. Maybe I should track who is looking at admin log!

don't worry, 90% of ilx won't even know it's there

sorry, 99%

It does seem like admin log wld just lead to more bitching and recrying of past tallymarks, rehash every time.

admin log was about the lols before

John Justen is an excellent mod. he temp banned me and also gave me the opportunity to discuss the temp ban.
Tombot is ...also a good mod. But I think he might want to recuse himself because everything is personal right now. Tombot also personally emailed me during my tempban experience.

I could not have asked for anything more from JJ and Tombot. They were gentlemen, and they were kind and understanding and NICE.

Temp ban is now a badge - and that's stupid. Taunting the mods is not a great strategy. Getting banned is not something to be proud of.

The worst thing is - I emailed Pashmina, asking why was I barred - only to find out that he had a significant death in his family to deal with. I found this out by reading ilx.
If you want to feel like a worm, I just told you how to do it.

So - we can never really know what is going on with each other, relative strangers, and it's up to us to take the time to think about who we are talking to.

If you need to subvert an existing hierarchy, well - there's a few I can think of.

Thanks, Alison.

Thanks to you too, Grady.

Yes... I think my worry is that there might actually be more noise. Maybe I should track who is looking at admin log!

Excellent idea. I can improve it - looking at admin log results in perma-ban. End of. Would clear board of noise (and possibly all traffic!) within minutes.

How do you code in EYE-MELTING FOR THOSE WHO DARE GAZE UPON?

arkofthecovenant.exe

admin log was about the lols before

-- jergins, Friday, August 29, 2008 6:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

^^^^^

ilx is a forum where "controversial mod edit" is a meme

A meme created and nurtured by the people with small dicks who think that their malicious or abusive posts don't somehow deserve deleting on sight.

"who banned so-and-so?"

Who cares? You know and I know that "so-and-so" is almost certainly going to be one in a short list of whiny dicks who see it as a badge of hon ur to be banned. Fuck'em.

thanks for the critical thinking on this, Mark. we appreciate your point of view.

a hardman is good to find

(12:38:49 PM) Heave Ho: i just read tombot thread
(12:38:59 PM) Heave Ho: why would i burn myself?
(12:39:19 PM) Heave Ho: is that a Vietnamese monk reference?

burn deeznuts

Thanks grady, I think I'm pretty on the money. Pretty clear which side of the fence you've chosen and I hope it works out for ya.

The weed is always greener on the other side of the fence.

wait which side of what fence did gr8080 choose?

btw i never got any personal emails during my temp ban experiences

not a single fucking one

http://i26.tinypic.com/2s0bm15.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/EmilyMarieMaki.jpg

That's hilarious deezie. I emailed them. So get over your hurt feelings.

Both Tom and John took the time to email me back.
So, whatever, I felt pretty good about having my say.

And that's more than anyone should expect from a situation where you are banned.

None of this is my point. My point is that you do not know what these seemingly innocous /vitally important posts mean to the person on the receiving end.
I don't care if I go down in flames as being overly sensitive - I'm actually pretty tough. But I have seen it - and I have done it - hurting someone just to make myself feel better.
And I don't know - and you don't know - what repercussions that might have.

it's not worth it to be cruel. That shit will bite you back.

I'm also totally with Emily Marie Maki on the emo guys thing.

I have been around here long enough to be able to give some advice.
Learn from my mistakes.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/1220122328723.gif

not sure if that's complimentary, but I'll take it as AWESOME!

its not complimentary

posters like gr8080 & max are out to ruin the ilx experience

Oh boy! They are going to have to work a lot harder!

deeznuts that is a patently false statement

deeznuts you are compromising the big Hoos

They are going to ruin typing? I'm bad enough at it as it stands.

i am thoroughly provoked by this appalling internet discourse

-- Confounded, Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:49 AM

0000000000

eggs

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/354537752_11bd2c01a9_o.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/2196826530_5ec0e6c196_o.jpg

^^^^^ A meme created and nurtured by the people with small dicks who think that their malicious or abusive posts don't somehow deserve deleting on sight.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/leiapillowfight.jpg

YOURE GOING OFF

"meta"

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/ExoticSoul-OPSSWetKisses.png

Who are you kissing in that picture, Gr8080. It's so hard to keep up with your conquests. The blue helmet totally suits you. I would lose the glove, but that's just me!

stfu Alison.

thats not a glove his hand is blue

i am thoroughly provoked by this appalling internet discourse

-- Confounded, Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:49 AM

-- jergins, Sunday, 31 August 2008 04:43 (15 hours ago) Bookmark Link

;]

Sorry gr8080. That was a stupid comment.

apology accepted

hey craig PLEASE TEXT ME, its important

now who the hell is craig

I thought his name was Gary???

lol @ both names

would the mods frown upon my loling at Ol Bertie Dastard?

yes, in the official THINGS MODS FROWN ON LOG

1) loling at Ol Bertie Dastard

2) drunk personal c&p board-wide assaults

3) sobriety

4) fun

5) singing of songs

6) friendship

7) alimony

8) begging for it

hen fap?

9) bass hot chick bed say this

The First Amendment is actually not that complicated. It can be read from start to finish in about 10 seconds. It bars the Government from abridging free speech rights. It doesn't have anything to do with whether you're free to say things without being criticized, or whether you can comment on blogs without being edited, or whether people can bar you from their private planes because they don't like what you've said.

glenn greenwald talking about sarah palin XD

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x18/gr8080/EmilyMarieMaki.jpg

even ray lyman understands the constitution better than sarah palin

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:QBhfBIuT9UZgyM:http://www.gnpplus.net/images/stories/pictures/now%2520more%2520than%2520ever.jpg

do you really think me and/or john justen not being mods is going to save you from being kicked off the boards if you keep up your son of chaki freakshow

Seriously, you delete any post by anyone complaining about your actions and you permanbanned me because i had the AUDACITY to point out (ie not abuse) that the famous "improved security" of ilx2 is a fucking joke.

Of course, most people don't even know that I was banned because you're such a fucking fascist you hide the evidence that it even happened …

Tom Millar to me
show details 9:32 PM (17 hours ago)

Reply

Am I supposed to be impressed by your graceful restraint in not t0t411y pWnz0r1n9 the boradz?
I work with people every week who break software with much scarier implications and they somehow manage to not be arrogant pricks about notification and resolution. In fact I can think of the biggest assholes I've ever dealt with in 8 years of this business and none of them act the special way you do. Enjoy your awesome framework and try not to hit any more fatties on your bike. Peace.

The prick is you, old man

banned again

Just so you know, it's not just Tom.