2019 MVPOLL (and awards predictions/talk)

I had thought Harden up til recently and it remains hard to overlook 36+ ppg but I'm thinking Giannis now

extreme dark horse possibility is Kawhi.

i think kawhi has no shot cos he sat the whole last season and still sits random games. also his defensive prowess seems to have slipped and he doesnt help his teammates get easy buckets.

i see now how many games he's missed!

there is also no narrative around him anyway. i think in the end it will be Giannis/Harden/George.

those are the top 3 for sure

btw LeBron has had thirteen consecutive top 5 MVP finishes and fifteen consecutive top 10 finishes.

Kawhi would be talked about more, if he hadn't alienated most of the voters by his clueless and tone-deaf treatment of the Spurs and their fans for an entire year before the trade to Toronto. He'll need at least another season of rehabilitating his reputation before he gets any consideration at all.

Harden has earned it by being a relentless scoring machine all season. That streak of consecutive unassisted baskets was insane. Giannis, by comparison was just his usual freaky unicorn self, awesome in his own way, but not as consistently reliable as Harden. The Rockets' problems this year all have to do with CP3's injury and Capela's drop-off. Harden has delivered like a mofo.

btw i put them in order of how i see it atm

harden already got his and the bucks have the best record. giannis has been very consistent!

this is a 3-man race between giannis, harden, and paul george, with jokic being in his own tier at 4 imo, and the rest really not being important

harden's been slipping over the past couple of weeks, and has been dowright awful since the all star break, but I think at least some of that has been re-integrating with chris paul, who has been playing better and assuming a larger role in the offense, something the rockets need him to do if they're going to challenge the warriors again in the playoffs. I think this is ultimately unfair, but unless harden goes supernova (again) from here on out, I think the timing of the tear he went on earlier in the year is going to hurt him as much as it'll help him -- people are bored by his greatness and I think let their personal opinions of the aesthetics of his game overshadow just how unstoppable he was, and how utterly crucial that stretch was in not only keeping the rockets afloat but vaulting them from 14th in the west to 5th while paul was out. and the guy is scoring more than anyone in modern NBA history, and doing it without losing one ounce of his usual efficiency. I mean come on

the case for giannis (and, in a way, jokic) is much more straightforward: he's the best player and fulcrum of the best team in the league, (and one that's flying under the radar as statistically one of the strongest regular season teams ever) and doing it while basically putting up prime shaq's shooting numbers in kevin durant's body. by the way, he's hit 31% of his threes in january and now 40% of his threes in february. if this is a sign that, in a season or two, he can be an average 3pt shooter, we're past MVP discussions and might be looking at one of the 5 best players of all time. weirdly, I think he can even improve more on defense too, and he's already a terror

paul george has basically morphed into 80% of kevin durant's offense and 125% of his defense, frankly a shocking leap for a player his age who it seemed like we'd seen everything he had to show us. there's something to be said about the way russ has deferred to him this year, especially late in games, in a way he never even did with KD, but part of that might be russ's own (offensive) decline and maybe billy donovan's coaching. ultimately it's hard to make a case for george when the other major candidates either have better numbers than him or are doing just as much to help their teams, but he's deserving of a top 3 vote

100 otm. Only really included kd and Steph if they end up with the best record and one of them goes nuts from here on out. Jokic needs a narrative push and a huge finish to the season but even then it’s a big stretch to overcome those three.

agreed that giannis/harden/george are your real options. from a marketing perspective, if the bucks end up winning the east (and they likely will), i presume you give it to giannis as a way to stir up some MUST SEE TV vibes. Otherwise, barring a massive collapse, you back-to-back harden. george doesn't have the name recognition with the general public and, in a year with lebron maybe not making the playoffs, i think the NBA won't take the risk.

well the NBA doesn’t dictate who wins, and the votes are due at the end of the regular season, not during/after the playoffs

further reading from amico
https://theathletic.com/843494/

and harper
https://theathletic.com/836876/

xp i thought mvp was announced during playoffs, my bad
and yes, votes are from the journalistic community but allow me my tinhat to conflate sportspress with nba in the belief that there's some common goals as far as pulling attention is concerned for both

insofar as "narrative" matters to voters, perhaps. and the award is announced during the playoffs, but is voted on before them

jesus harden, 40% usage rate?

yeah. you'd think the opposing players would try guarding him, am I right?

alright im leaning harden again

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

https://sports.yahoo.com/why-james-harden-is-even-better-than-you-think-143013213.html

good piece

windy all nba talk
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26306393/tens-millions-stake-all-nba-sprint-finish

it seems that this is one of the first years in a while that it's tough to find enough worthy players to fill out both the forward and the guard spots

giannis gonna win it

PG normalized after his hot streak which he does every year (shooting splits since asb 38/31)
JH also came down to earth a bit, to be expected after he got his squad back and could chill a bit (shooting splits post asb 41/27)

Giannis has increased his 3p% by a whole point post asb and everything else has maintained. Bucks are going to have the best record. It's his.

also hes lovable

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWLj6cbW4AMpv8N.jpg

lmao

this was good i think
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2828714-15-nba-stars-who-would-have-been-your-parents-mvp

ROY is gonna go to Luka BUT the raw stats (and even TS%) have really evened out over the season between he and Trae.
http://bkref.com/tiny/GCdZ2
like it's really close. I would consider a co-ROY thing for real.

its crazy what a big load both of them are carrying @ 20 y/o

trial by fire and so forth, not sure its really the best approach tbh

its fine if you're all in on the star and you want to build from the ground up.

yeah I mean only a certain caliber of player can handle it, I do think luka is a level or two above trae especially projecting forward but trae has been out of his mind since 2019 started

Every time people start hyping Trae young I check the stats and he’s still shooting 42/33 on the season. Luka’s just better.

I mean trae’s been nuts and I’m really optimistic about him...but luka will be an MVP candidate in a few years

luka cld get there but thats a long road

Luka is also shooting 43/33 Matt

heh

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

that's just better, last i checked

lagoon your luka skepticism is funny to me, what is your angle?

white genocide

just the most impressive teenager since lebron, can basically do everything, what’s not to love

its the thing abt being the best teen since lebron its just obvs not true, i cant stand for it

can u name a better 1

like in real life teens are usually bad

ant davis obvs for one just real super clear

is zion in the nba yet?

yeah otm zion too

hes prob not even still the best by whatever bs stat was cooked up anymore tbh that was when he was on a heater at the beginning of the year

best teen since lebron was bieber

i mean not at basketball but he was the #1 teen you cant deny it

bieber is going to be a dad can u believe it feel like hes grown so much been on a major journey

still hes a teen in my heart

yeah ok, his comps are lebron james and anthony davis, please forgive me

throw kyrie in there too

just some guys lol

theyre not really comps tho is the thing the stats are obvs not consistent across that era, like potential mvp candidate is super high praise and its good enough for what hes done but hes not in the same league as a prospect as bron and davis were, and like best teen isnt really that meaningful of a thing even if it were true

and tough shot maker w not much defensive upside isnt that easy of a way to make a living in the nba

i mean thats like kyrie which seems like a much better comparison than guys who are just beasts in the nba, and kyrie kinda hangs around the edges of the mvp conversation

last year u all were in love w ben simmons lol

Luka is also shooting 43/33 Matt

Euroleague MVP at 18, NBA RoY at 19 [Stephen A Smith voice] HOWEVER

euroleague mvp is impressive roy means nothing

i mean giannis at 18 in some 3rd tier league, giannis at 19 getting 7mins off the bench, anyone think lukas gonna be as good as giannis

I can see it. his comp is harden imo

euroleague mvp is impressive roy means nothing

assuming this refers to the fact that recent illustrious winners of this award include Malcolm Brogdon (who's fine, but still) and MCW.

I remember the three man race between tyreke evens, steph, & brandon jennings..

evans

[12th consecutive year of Luka being the best player in his age group] Jerry Stackhouse had that one season where he scored 30 ppg

https://i.imgur.com/Tvb4NVx.png

https://i.imgur.com/qv7i4yY.png

Hmm I wonder what would happen to this already good player if that improved

Maybe you’re right, man. But it’s a pretty contrarian view at this point. When is he going to stop exceeding expectations

A player's 3pt. % is the one statistic we should all focus on when evaluating them. This has been proved by science.

quality post lol

guy takes tough shots that are hard to make at a high rate, doesnt even take science to understand that the step back 3 is a tough way to get points, now the dunk on the other hand is very good

i mean consider for a second how his future looks if hes not that good of a shooter, which he has not been for his career

he's never had to shoot at this distance before and he's shooting a perfectly acceptable rate for a teenager who takes ridiculously tough shots

I mean playing devil's advocate is fine but the guy is going to dominate it's v obvious

i mean consider for a second how his future looks if hes not that good of a shooter, which he has not been for his career

saw gobert play in person last night and it's crazy how good he is at defense, think he had 5 blocks but at least 5-10 more times where dudes didnt even try to get a shot off in there just dribble through the key and kicked it out.

The @utahjazz started a Gobert for DPOY campaign that's inspired by a John Coltrane jazz vinyl record, track listing and all 🎼 pic.twitter.com/IKo1pNrM3m

— NBA on ESPN (@ESPNNBA) April 4, 2019

idk why but My One and Only Love (Defense) is cracking me up.
Love watching great big men defenders in person. Camby was incredible.

The Bucks reached 60 wins yesterday with a few games yet to play. My hot take is that probably will give Giannis the definite edge in MVP voting. If Harden hadn't won his first MVP already it would be hard to deny him this time, but he's got one on the shelf, so this season Giannis will get his.

https://theathletic.com/909752/2019/04/08/the-2019-nba-player-poll-mvp-the-goat-most-overrated-players-weigh-in-on-the-best-and-worst-in-the-game/

Shane Young's award thoughts seem otm
https://medium.com/@shaneyoungnba/2018-19-nba-awards-ballot-1a4c0dc88ee7

yes. otm. he's done his homework and expressed his conclusions well.

lowe weighs in
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26481556/zach-lowe-2018-19-nba-awards-ballot-winners-tight-races

"James Harden has no weaknesses on offense. He could thrive within any ecosystem. He is the best offensive player in the league." im sorry but this is dumb

yea i read that back a few times...

"Best and most valuable are almost the same, but not quite." also this

general consensus picks across the board appear to be Giannis for MVP, Doncic for ROY, Budenholzer for coach, Gobert for DPOY, Siakam for MIP and Williams for 6th Man (again).

that will most likely be how it plays out yea

"James Harden has no weaknesses on offense. He could thrive within any ecosystem. He is the best offensive player in the league." im sorry but this is dumb

― lag∞n, Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:36 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

being an unstoppable iso scorer kind of means this is true

Harden's string of 87 consecutive unassisted baskets was the most insane hoops stat I have ever heard.

"James Harden has no weaknesses on offense. He could thrive within any ecosystem. He is the best offensive player in the league." im sorry but this is dumb

― lag∞n, Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:36 PM (thirty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In terms of how basketball is played and officiated in 2019 this is absolutely true.

its really not

are you under the impression that there is a better offensive player or

https://thefader-res.cloudinary.com/private_images/w_760,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best/GettyImages-875432326_gnml9b/steph-curry-brita-commercial.jpg

there are other candidates too

i mean if offense is just lighting up the magic on a tuesday night or whatever fine give it to harden

Harden's string of 87 consecutive unassisted baskets was the most insane hoops stat I have ever heard.

― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:53 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

its impressive but also a bad way to play basketball

steph is def in the convo but as far as effort day in day out body of work and so forth this season it’s harden

the problem with judging day in day out body of work is it just not what the generally agreed upon goal of playing in the nba is, tho tbf it might be hardens goal

impressive but also a bad way to play basketball

that's why I chose my words carefully. it isn't sane to play a team sport like that, yet he makes it work for him at an all-star level of production.

its pretty psycho really

like he cld play better basketball that doesnt see him chucking in the playoffs but he chooses not to

if offense is just shooting then give it to Steph, of course. but it's not. Harden is better at creating shots for other guys and insanely better at getting to the line.

Harden is better at creating shots for other guys

this is very false. steph is way better at making his teammates lifes easier and getting them open shots, assist #s dont tell the whole story

I don't think Tucker, Green, and House even know how to dribble anymore but ok.

thats bad

harden is a great passer but their whole thing is so screwy

its kinda funny how they almost won the chip last year via D tho

dont think this years team has the defensive talent to pull that off tho, hardens gonna have to hit those stepbacks

or get foul calls in tight games

yeah i think he shd just try to make the shots

its why someone like kyrie is more valuable in the offs cos he makes hard shots instead of foul hunting.

harden is perfectly capable of making tough shots tho he maybe just needs to focus on that rather than the foul hunting

his floater game is crazy.

I would disagree about kyrie being more valuable in the offs btw, harden didn’t have the luxury of playing with lebron

also let’s not forget that for all of his struggles they should have won the chip last year and he’s gotten better

like this step back stuff he’s taken to a whole new level

hes gonna have to prove it in "the playoffs"

I would disagree about kyrie being more valuable in the offs btw, harden didn’t have the luxury of playing with lebron

also let’s not forget that for all of his struggles they should have won the chip last year and he’s gotten better

― k3vin k., Wednesday, April 10, 2019 2:06 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

should clarify that i dont think kyrie is more valuable than harden in the offs, but that his skillset is more valuable during the offs

sometimes a player is just that much better though regardless of skillset or else the best nba player would be like otto porter or something

jeff green is the MVO (most valuable in the offs)

george over jokic for MVP is so cringey

yeah, shouldnt be a dpoy finalist either imo

pg was having a legit year but then fell the fuck off as per usual

prob would've helped had he not torn his rotator cuff

true

All-Rookie First Team is the top-5 picks for the first time since the incredible draft class of 1984.

Awesome note from the press release: pic.twitter.com/aMGMrzO3ZT

— Micah Adams (@MicahAdams13) May 21, 2019

Klay finally made one!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7MKHpvU0AAEUgP.jpg

also that top 3 is TIGHT

Is Eric Bledsoe really that good? He's never really jumped out at me but I haven't watched him too closely on D.

i would put jrue way ahead of him.

My gut would be to rank him last of those ten.

probably accurate.

only major snub i see myles turner

Congrats to @smart_MS3 on the very much deserved 1st-team All-Defense selection!
It's about time they started counting all these #WinningPlays pic.twitter.com/yaujuL0KZL

— Max Lederman (@Max_Lederman) May 22, 2019

only major snub i see myles turner

― but I can't let Trae do it I got Huerter on my mind (Spottie), Wednesday, May 22, 2019 2:20 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

these awards are always lagging hell prob get there next year

klay and bledsoe def the bottom 2 of those 10 defensively

klay's defensive metrics haven't ever been great, does his rep just come from eye test and narrative?

yeah but also hes really good at defense. idk why his metrics arent good. kawhis were really bad this year too.

his metrics arent good in part because he doesnt rebound much or force turnovers much which are the 2 easiest defensive contributions to quantify

which kawhi does both at an elite level, and yet.

kawhi is #235 in DRPM

whats the best defensive stat/metric anyway?

idk i look at a bunch of stuff but obv theres nothing that really matters the non-discrete-event parts of defense

*measures

u cant quantify basketball its mystical some might even say religious

best way is probably just finding as large as possible on/off samples

or summon a ghost then ask the ghost

wait is this voted on by media or coaches or both? coaches def know who the best defenders are

Klay doesn't make spectacular defensive plays but he is so fundamentally sound on that end mentally and technique wise. I never see a team or even player try to go at him.

feel like a lot of good perimeter defenders who also have substantial scoring loads spend a lot of the reg season coasting on the defensive end cause no one really has the energy, so u see kawhi or klay doing shutdown stuff in the offs that theyre not necessary doing all season

I think we can say for sure that Bledsoe is the shortest

I'm thinking him, CP3, and Mookie are the shortest guys to make All D?

this is solely voted on by media folk?? lame af

feel like coaches should def have a say in this

would solve a lot of problems if they just let the media coach the teams while the coaches vote on the awards

all groups player coaches media shd have their own awards wld be interesting to compare and contrast

^co-sign

I hear media opinions ALL THE TIME. They're not hard to find. Meanwhile every lil nugget of "insider" talk re: how certain players are discussed, gameplanned for, evaluated, etc from coaches and current players is treasured like a rare taco and devoured by me.

my kingdom for a compendium of scouting reports

media guys do so much voting based on reputation it’s dumb. this has prob been getting better over the years but still

all nba
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7RT4leUcAAzSpf.jpg

so I guess this means there's a better chance Kemba stays in Charlotte now that they can offer him the supermax. this might end up being more of a curse than a blessing though, seems like every mega deal handed out to a PG in recent years (Wall, Paul, Westbrook, Conley) has been a mistake or looks almost certain to become one in the near future.

I'd swap KD for PG and the rest looks ok.

yeah kemba should probably stay haha. only supermax that has worked is the curry one.

harden too

seeing lebron on the 3rd team is kinda O__o but is also the right decision.

pg on the first team is corny

The fact that both Giannis and Harden were unanimous 1st team picks makes it even more apparent that the MVP race is between those two and quite close.

I think Giannis is going to win pretty comfortably, that's my prediction.

interesting side effect of coasting the reg season

A real-time reaction at what it looks like when you think you're getting an extra $30M and then get it clarified that you're not. Amazing video. https://t.co/FDrEWseOJs

— Brian Windhorst (@WindhorstESPN) May 23, 2019

klay didnt coast as much as others on the team imo. he just shot poorly to start the season.

whole team coasting tho prob cost him

coasted into first place

3rd place iirc

right right pretty crazy they will not have homecourt vs either team

they have some things to work out in the next cba
https://i.imgur.com/Ra9orPZ.png

yeah thats kinda a funny way to do things

if i was a media person i would simply not vote

i wld vote vindictively based on which players were nice to me

Lol so the awards show is tonight and they’re giving out all the reg season awards what a sham no one cares any more

the famous dunk is its own reward

— br⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️⚫️seph (@on3ness) June 24, 2019

some vintage luka hateration from lagoon itt

omg u guys r such babies abt luka

I am going to be a single-issue poster this season and that issue will be zion luka

― k3vin k., Monday, October 21, 2019 10:38 AM (three weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol

Lagoon is just asking questions. All the questions are about Luka not being good somehow but