Hollow Knight

This game is so great it deserves its own thread.

I'm now 35 hours or so into this, and I have no idea how much progress I have made. Every time I play it I discover something new, or a new power, or a new secret. The map gets bigger, there are new enemies. And I get better, too. But as I posted on the other thread, I'm still not even sure what the objective is, so I have no clue how close I am to achieving that! Which is a little annoying, except that the design and writing and gameplay is so exemplary I'm having a blast just wandering around, finding and fighting things. I haven't had this much fun playing a game in ages, and I feel like in some ways it's preparing me for when I finally get around to cracking open my copy of Dark Souls on the PS4.

this is a dark souls game posing as a metroid game and i got duped by it

I think it's a great hybrid of lots of stuff, but I think what is key for me is as of yet I'm not sick of looking at it. I just love the art and design. That was my problem with Celeste (besides hurting my thumbs and me not really getting any better at it).

Something else I've liked about it so far is that I don't think I've hit an enemy or spot I couldn't figure out yet, or at least that required some sort of trick or luck or esoteric strategy. Part of that is because you can almost always go another way, or try some other area. You're never actually "stuck," and whether it's a tricky bit of platforming or an enemy there is no help, per se, just sticking with it until you do the thing. I have turned to one or two wikis or videos, but since there is no right or wrong way to proceed - I've heard of people making it super far before even learning they can upgrade their nail - my biggest takeaway has been discovering stuff/routes/secrets I just didn't see or missed. Or in the case of, say, the dash slash or whatever it is called, needing to look up instructions for how to perform it right. The game is definitely tougher than Steamworld, Dig 2, but iirc in that one I encountered more dead ends that required guidance.

An exception are the plumes of smoke coming up from the ground. I had no clue how to pass them and still don't, because I did a quick google and the explanation was convoluted and foreign to me at this point I decided to just cross that bridge when it became more obvious.

And again, I have absolutely no idea how much of this world I have not explored yet. I have a feeling I'm still at the tip of the iceberg.

Heh, I had accumulated over 10,000 geo just goofing around, and then I lost it all doing something stupid (or at least underestimating a commonplace enemy). Oh well, back to the grind!

this game owns

... but is insanely hard

See, posts like that make me wonder if indeed I have only scratched the surface of the game. I've explored tons, but so far nothing has seemed significantly (as in, stuck for hours) hard, at least not compared to Celeste or even Shovel Knight. An exception so far is Crystal Peak, which I find very frustrating, but I seem to be doing OK otherwise! Though to be fair I don't think I've even tried fighting any of the Dream bosses, and my discovery of the flower delivery quest ended in miserable failure when I diligently made it all the way to the (wrong) place only to get injured and lose the challenge at the last second (though I did discover something useful on the way there, so I guess that's a win?).

insanely was maybe an exaggeration but in my defense I was drunk when I posted that. I was stuck on the hornet but just applied a little patience and cleared her pretty handily. about 2/3 hours into the game now

This game is just the right level of challenge, IMO

I am 40 hours deep, and I think in the home stretch. Just did the second fight with Hornet, taken out 2 of the 3 dreamers, and mapped all the areas except one, I think. The plot is still almost totally opaque to me. Is it possible to get the story without having to watch a bunch of lore videos on YouTube?

I am over 40 hours and nowhere near where you are, I don't think ... or I don't know. I keep finding new stuff to distract me. Right now I keep losing my soul ghost in that sealed room with a beating heart and all those manifesting poison-spitting bee-things (not the Hive). I think I have a long way to go, and regret not leaving more markers on my map.

Out of curiosity I glanced online at a map, and thankfully I think I've explored most/much of the world at this point. Now it's just a matter of discovering all the secrets, unlocking powers, beating enemies/bosses/challenges, that sort of thing, which should be fun!

On sale for $10 right now!!!

I've just opened up my fifth station and I love this so far. The atmosphere and rhythm of it is great, not getting a map at first in each area is a clever way to step up the sense of danger.

My one complaint is the annoying decision to assign the unnecessary quick cast to R - it's too close to RT and I've accidentally triggered it at the worst possible moment so many times.

Apparently they just updated it with a big new free DLC.

Whenever I get stuck I admit I glance at an online map, not for any specific hint but for a general direction as to where to go. But I sometimes I also check in with a particular youtube walkthrough, which is only so helpful, given the person is doing different things in a different order. And yet, every once in a while I watch and he pops into some place for the first time, some place I have been to dozens of times, and just immediately knocks down a hidden wall or finds a secret passage. Similarly faces various challenges in a seriously underpowered state, challenges I have problems with even after getting the thing that does the thing. What the fuck, dude!? How do you do that?

Bought it in the sale and enjoying it so far. Does a story/point develop or is it just amiably running and jumping in different directions?

I think the latter? I have played almost 60 hours and have no idea what's going on!

I should stress/clarify that as I progress, things *are*changing and developing, and there is an overarching mythology to the world. I'm just not quite clear on the ultimate goal, or whether I am moving toward it. I'm certainly doing stuff, but I think it's partly a matter of trying different things and exploring different areas until other things and areas make themselves apparent to you. And with those areas and things and powers come more aspects of the mythology.

That said, every once in a while I get stuck and hit the internet for advice, and sometimes the advice is all stuff I'm am totally unfamiliar with! And I've made a lot of progress! "Oh, first you should get the thing from the place after you beat the guy." And I think, huh, that seems harder than what I'm trying to achieve!

I'm enjoying wandering around randomly! I hope I don't have to remember too much about where I've been.

That said I'm wondering about getting a different controller - I'm not sure the basic set that comes with the Switch is really that suited to platforming. Had the same problem with Celeste. It's hard to do little micro-moves with the joystick.

I had a much easier time with this and the regular Switch controllers than I did with Celeste. But Celeste benefitted from the Pro, if only for comfort.

This is great! Maybe the first Switch game outside of Zelda that I feel like I've really connecting with. But even just finding the coin for the quill and compass seems pretty hard!

It gets easier, gradually. But you know what? I've accumulated so many power-ups and charms and abilities, improved my nail three times, and still I have yet to encounter anything that made me feel overpowered. Even the simplest enemies can take you down if you don't pay attention, and some of the simpler enemies suddenly get more difficult as you progress in the game. Nothing is easy, just easier.

I take it back: the Dream Shield charm, plus or minus a couple of others, has really helped me steamroll the last few bosses, even bosses that had given me a lot of trouble before (like Watcher Knights and Hive Knight). I don't know if it counts as overpowered, because I am terrible and need the help, but a few of those charms (plus extra life, etc.) have really made a big difference, at least added to my growing experience.

Another thing: I had made good progress but ran up against a figurative wall and needed to get a hint online. Not only had I totally forgotten about a boss I'd put off, even if I had beat said boss I literally would have had no idea what to do next. I would have just dashed around indefinitely. I don't know if that's because I missed a clue, or didn't understand, or what, but the game's dedication to ambiguity and elliptical mythology would have gotten me nowhere without some concrete direction. How some of these (you?) serious gamers figure all this shit out is beyond me.

Made it to Greenpath! Loving this. Hands hurt.

Wonderful music too.

feels like the jump button has a lag. Or has different timing than most other games.

Jump is fine for me! But finding it a little awkward attacking baddies on the diagonal (although maybe it's meant to be)

I think there's a problem with my controller when not directly connected. or maybe I am just bad.

jumping is really crisp for me. sounds like a controller issue

Like I said, I'm generally not very good at these games, and not being a game ninja it takes me longer than many to get a hang of things, but I've been cruising along at a pretty steady clip here so I assume the controls are pretty solid. My theory is that lots of 8-bit styled platformers, whether something challenging like Shovel Knight or punishing like Celeste, the style of the art lends themselves to very precise control movement, down to the pixel. But Hollow Knight (like Steamworld) is so beautifully stylized/designed/drawn that while it can be challenging it feels a little less pixel-precise. There are a couple places with very tough platform moves and attacks, but it all feels very graceful to me, not at all mechanical. That said, I've yet to be able to master the nail bounce in Hollow Knight, and I think that is the downside of its art style; when there's something specific and mechanical you have to do, doing something based almost on intuition and instinct rather than robotic precision is a bit more trouble. I dunno. I wonder how I'd do at something like Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.

I feel like I'm in the home stretch of this game by the way, certainly the final 20% or so, though I get the impression there's an advanced mode or something you need to beat to really finish it.

I have three weeks before I go back to work when I thought I'd have a crack at finishing Middlemarch finally, but, uh, Hollow Knight

All right I started playing this and beat the first boss…it’s good

This game is so good that sometimes I can't even tell if I'm even fighting a boss.

Curious to see how Dark Souls hits you Josh. I haven’t played HK yet (have it on the Switch tho, wanna get thru Zelda first), but a lot of things you’re talking about sound very much DS inspired.

I got it all figured out. Hollow Knight, then finish Doom, then Dark Souls. I can tell you right now that Hollow Knight is at times cute, and funny, and always nice to look at, even when it is really dark. Dark Souls is all gloom all the time isn't it?

um, well, there's a certain humor that can potentially be found in dying a lot, if you look at it from one perspective. but yeah, not too cheerful. but it does an excellent job of setting a distinct and memorable mood

Yeah it’s super gloom for the most part but there’s comedy to be had through getting wrecked like Karl said. Also unexpected lols from certain enemies.

Meant more the unexplained, esoteric nature of it. Also it’s supposed difficulty, but sounds like you’re managing it pretty well in HK.

Man, this Hornet is really really really really hard for a second level Boss

Yeah I'm not much farther than you are and I had trouble with Hornet too - all I can say is just be patient, keep your distance, get in a hit or two when you can but just try to avoid her hits and wear her down

I am super stuck on Hornet too. As much as I appreciate not having to fight bosses again if you'd rather just peace out and do something else (and it's cool you can get your shade back without initiating the boss fight), I wish you could just hit "try again" rather than spending a couple minutes after every regen filling up with soul and heading back to their lair.

The Switch is the first videogame system I've played since the PS2, and the deterioration in my skills is never more evident than when I mess up and die fighting Hornet because my hands are sweaty lol. This game is extremely pretty and fun though, and I look forward to maybe getting to see at least one more area.

Hornet is pretty tough. Mantis Lords are super tough. Watcher Knights were hard. I'm trying to remember a few more. None has been totally maddening yet, except maybe Hive boss for me, mostly because I would get my ass kicked on my way there by enemies, so I'd arrive in a weakened state.

I took an hour and like eight tries to beat the soul master today. After taking an hour and like twelve tries to even open up the way to his room. I haven’t played a game tuned to this kind of difficulty since Viewtiful Joe I think. (Which I never beat.) Celeste B-sides are harder but the deaths are much less of a punishment so they don’t key me up as much.

I think - and I could be wrong - that as you go along money/geo becomes less important, so losing that cash (and the time spent accumulating it) isn't as soul destroying. Plus, there's that dude you can unlock up in Dirthmouth who will restore your soul for a rotten egg, which is a) funny and b) a relief. I do like the spikes in difficulty, though. It keeps me engaged. I thought every single second of "Celeste" was tough, which eventually turned me off.

I really hate this game and love it

I'm definitely really close to (I think) the (first) final boss, and I only know that because once again I more or less did everything I thought I was supposed to be doing and literally had no idea what to do next and had to look it up.

can someone come to my house and do hornet please

iirc just take your time and heal when you get the chance. I want to say there are times she gets tired and you are tempted to attack, but sometimes you just got to take one for the team and heal instead.

if you think hornet is hard just wait for hornet v.2

yeah i never got past hornet the game wasn't hooking me enough to persevere

Hornet was harder for me the first time around. All the time it took to get to Hornet v.2 plus all the upgrades I'd made made it less of a challenge the second time around. Then again, I had a lot of trouble fighting what some consider easier bosses, like Mantis Lords and Hive Knight. Right now started working on (first) final boss and have no idea how hard it will be. But hard enough so far!

Man, some of the art as you wrap up the first phase is gorgeous. And now that I know what my percentage is - 78% - I know how much more of the game there is for me to explore even after I "beat" it.

Rob OTM upthread, I wish I could just hit "fight again" instead of having to go through the five minute kill shade/gather energy rigmarole after every death. It's so frustrating when the shade hits you too!

That said the Green level music is so good, it's gotta be one of the best computer game themes I've heard

I think the music is pretty impressive across the board. I read somewhere that that is one of the few things the tiny team outsourced and spent money on.

Holy shit! Beat the (first) final boss, who was surprisingly fun and not too bad, though man, the match gets super dark and the twist when it's over is ... also super dark. I know there's more to the game, but I have no idea what to expect. Man, what a ton of fun this has been so far.

I managed to beat Hornet a couple days after I posted. There are various bits of good advice on fighting her out there, but one thing I saw helped more than I expected: turn the sound down. I love the music and sound design on this game, but they seem designed to mess with you in this fight, and Hornet's yelps (which are random afaict) are actively distracting since you need to register her moves visually to react well.

In the meantime, I looked up what the postgame White Palace "real" ending game is like, and yeah, no thanks. At least not now. One of the reasons I liked Hollow Knight is that it was not Super Meat Boy or Celeste.

Heh, every once in a while I read something about Hollow Knight and there are references to bosses and battles and challenges I somehow totally missed, despite "completing" the game. Totally nuts, the amount of content in here.

yesterday I bumbled my way out of the logjam I was in w/r/t knowing where to go next, and in the process encountered at two bosses I suspect are optional (one definitely is).

Then I found the part of the map where the enemy bugs all have little cravats and waistcoats

I was unpleasantly stuck again and then I glanced at a walkthrough which suggested I go left and lo and behold, progress.

video games have conditioned us all to go right

Ok I started this and it's pretty great. Just past the False Knight and the area where you get your first spell.

It does feel overwhelmingly massive, even the first area seems huge. And where Dark Souls gives you a bonfire after each boss, here you have to run back to a warp spot, so you're even more tempted to explore a little further instead (and then wind up deep in a new section with tons of currency on the line).

Some travel times stay long, some get shorter. Eventually you get some skills that significantly speed things up, but by then (imo) some aspects of the game get a little tougher, so it sort of balances out.

It wasn't even that long, I just never want to take the time to go back to home base areas even though it's the logical thing to do.

Also the choice not to show boss health bars adds some tension, but also makes it easier not to get greedy near the end.

"A world of insects and heroes" hits my twee heartstrings so hard! And a sidescrolling platformer would be a great change of pace from all these open-worldish 3D games I've been playing lately.

The lack of boss bars was (in this game and others) a little off-putting to me, because there were times I got really frustrated when I died not knowing if I was even remotely close. Definitely forces you to think through strategies and/or adjust expectations.

Beat the hornet lady on the second try! Now I guess I need to backtrack through everything to find the newly accessible places, huh. As you do.

Jealous

Seething, actually

(I’m still stuck there. Playing mario odyssey instead.)

I don't think I've ever liked a game this much so soon after starting it. The design is so enchanting, top to bottom. This is exactly the game I need right now

Beat the Broken Vessel last night, got the double-jump, I’ve got one more Dreamer to murder free

Beat the Hornet (not quite as quickly as Jordan, but definitely < 10 tries), so I've got my dash! THERE ARE CATERPILLARS THAT NEED SAVIN.

just in case you haven't been doing it, be sure to check in on them in their little caterpillar conclave every once in awhile.

The caterpillars are the best. I'm in the City of Tears so far, at a boss. I'm pretty sure I missed two bosses in the last area though?!

Yes! It took me a little while to figure out what was going on there. xp

Got the mantis claw! The part in the same region where you have to jump off walls and dash over a bed of spikes, all to flip a switch, is one of the hardest video game things I've done in a LONG while.

Is that the bit in Queen's Station? I gave up on that after a couple of tries.

I think he means that bridge that leads you out of the Fungal Wastes.
There's a part in Crystal Peak later that is a lot like that but much harder!

I am back to loving this after a brief period being mad at how easy it is to wander into areas you have no business trying

Not far from there, the Mantis Village (which I think is in the Fungal Wastes).

One thing that does bug (hah geddit) is the amount of slow traveling I have to do, what with dying all the time and benches being relatively sparse.

xps

OTOH! The bouncy mushrooms are love.

Other things that I am proud of:
- Figuring out how to kill the Mantises without resorting to projectile blasts (two ways, though one is pure cheese)
- Figuring out how to kill the fungi that spit spore bombs at you

Ah ok, I was thinking of a different area in the FW. There are a lot of super hard platforming zones lol

I bought this a second time, on PS4, because my PC can't run it properly.

I like how the map doesn't update until you save. It makes exploring new areas feel mysterious.

- Figuring out how to kill the fungi that spit spore bombs at you

Good for you, I just started running past them.

Somehow I got the Mantis Claw (which is amazing) but didn't find the Mantis Lords, will have to go back.

I want to say there is only one enemy I totally avoided attacking, and that's the bigger jellyfish that spits out a hollow knight seeking missile. Also, after some of the earlier stages ... change, I tended to avoid those newly aggro enemies.

It's been interesting playing Dark Souls more or less after this one. HK clearly owes a lot to DS, but the design, while dark, I find to be a bit easier on the eyes. DS is just so relentlessly grim.

I haven't found the Mantis Lords either.

Josh, I'm experiencing the same thing with Bloodborne. I unequivocally prefer playing HK, though.

Recently went back to Greenpath to try something with a new ability and as much as the whole game is superbly designed and scored, I would love a sequel/spin-off/whatever that was entirely in this style

The music may be key to this game. I read somewhere that the design team was super small but they decided to splurge on an outside composer, which was smart.

absolutely. Crystal Peak might have ended me without the music

I believe u all but I have been playing this one on mute/listening to podcasts a fair amount

I stumbled into the City of Tears and crawling without a map was some stressful stuff!

All of the audio design in this game is A++; the music, the sfx, the way the volume momentarily cuts out when you get hit, (my favorite) the wonderfully expressive gibberish voice-acting.

Yeah the voice acting rules.

Geo, kalala!

the sound of opening up a hidden passage with your nail is so satisfying

Ok I went back and found the Mantis Lords. Haven't gotten through it yet but I can see how it's done.

The Mantis Lords are surprisingly easy once you get their pattern down. The Watcher Knights on the other hand...(I'm still stuck here)

^ hit the Watcher Knights the other day and while I know tanking up isn't really the solution to these bosses I had no real ideas about them

Are they the four or five knights that sort of roll around in pairs? Make sure you have upgraded your nail at least once or twice before you fight them. There's also a trick to get the chandelier to kill one of them...

What constitutes tanking up in this game, upgrading your masks and getting cool charms?

My nail is on upgrade 2 and I've done the chandelier trick as well. My biggest problem seems to be dodging one's roll attack and getting hit by the other's bounce (or vice versa), or getting smacked while healing. I've tried all kinds of peculiar charm loadouts to help. I think I just have to git gud as they say.

I want to say that/those boss/bosses gave me the hardest time. Oh, wait, there is a magic ground smash attack that I think helped, I forget what power that was ...

Ok I beat the Mantis Lords and it was extremely satisfying.

I tried my hand at the Mantis Lords unsuccessfully. Am I right that they attack too quickly to heal? I got as far as the 2-vs-1 portion and then their double projectile attack pwned me hard.

Then I tried to fight the Soul Master. He can kiss my butt.

0 for 2 against bosses tonight.

I used a key I found on a random door, and it opened up an empty "house of pleasure" which seems to be for world building -- then I found a breakable wall and got into two new zones, wtf.

*sigh* bapanada

I found that the projectile attacks were the only chance to heal, especially when there were two of them (they descend more slowly, and if you stand in the middle they'll just miss you much of the time). But then again I was using a Quick Focus charm that I bought from the large slug lady.

But then again I was using a Quick Focus charm that I bought from the large slug lady.

I *think* I've found her but the charm is apparently 800 geos, and instead I splurged on a simple key. :\

fwiw I put off fighting the Mantis Lords for a really long time. There's a ton of other stuff you could do first

I'm not sure where I'm 'supposed' to go now, I guess back to poking around in the City of Tears? I did beat that Soul Master boss down there.

you have a few options iirc, though that might depend on whether you've bought the lantern yet or not. But even without that, the ability you get from the Soul Master should lead you to some new area(s)

I'm having fun just wandering around, filling in small portions of the map.

I bought the QF charm and that was all the difference -- beat both the Mantis Lords (which makes traversing Mantis Village so much easier) and Soul Eater!

I love the gibberish voice acting on this. So diverse and silly.

I think I'm pretty far into the game. I just got the upgrade that lets you deal with those shaky floors. None of those 3 boss icons have been dealt with, though.

I'm around the same place and feel like I've barely cracked the surface.

Shaky floors? You mean what lets you slam through them? I love the violence of that and a few other upgrades. You bounce and hop around, but a few on them are like BLAM, out like a bullet.

Got my double jump, acid immunity, and second nail upgrade yesterday!

I love how there is no specific order for the upgrades.

Watcher Knights ugghhhhhhhhhhh I even cheated and looked up where to get a Pale Ore because I hadn’t found any and that helped but not enough. Trying the same boss for two hours is the woooooorst

I finally got the poison water immunity, somehow I missed it (and the map) when I went through its area. Also got the extra jump and the third sword upgrade.

I tried to beat a hard boss but died over 10 times. Think I'll explore some more. Got to remember to use that teleport sword power more often -- I've wasted a lot of time moving back to places I die.

There's a way of preemptively killing one of the Watchers, if you haven't tried that. Otherwise, try to isolate the Watchers because when they do different rolls at the same time from the same direction, it's virtually impossible to dodge. Also, get good at down slammed.

I had Defenders Crest and the thorn charm equipped too to do as much damage as possible.

I don't think I ever got a sword teleporter!

watching this thread has gotten me back into this game! i've put 18 hours into it and i'm way behind everyone else. i definitely haven't gotten a sword teleporter, and i only have the double-jump, not the triple.

I got nowhere with the Watcher Knights for a long time, couldn't even beat one. So I went off and did everything else I could (including looking up a whole not-very-obvious area and getting the reward for finishing it) and came back and then beat them on my second go. The upgrade from the very bottom of the map was the one that made the biggest difference.

Also, get good at down slammed.

This should read down slash.

Thanks for the tips, I didn’t actually get what Defender’s Crest did before. I beat them!

Here’s a fun thing, try having the Womb and Defender’s Crest on at the same time. It buffs your bugs! At least I think that’s what is doing it.

Just found the watcher knights myself. Even with the nail upgrades it was hard.

What charms are you guys using? I use a bunch of cheap ones, the sprint (I think this is DLC), dashmaster and mark of pride (aka really long nail). For bosses I put in quick charge.

I almost always used the map, long nail, quick focus and a couple of the smaller ones I can't remember. the one you get from the bee Knight or whatever is useful for some specific tasks.

If I'm just wandering around I use the compass, Grubsong, Longnail, Soul Catcher, and something else, usually Baldur Shell, though Quick Focus is great and Steady Body is kind of a must in some spots. I recently got a fun one that makes three little spider friends who attack enemies and gather soul for you, but I don't use it much since in certain environments they are useless. Stalwart Shell has been useful in a few specific situations.

I am bad at bosses and often have to use weird charm combos on them. Just beat this dude in Royal Waterways by maxing out my spell power with at least two charms and then just blasting it with Shade Soul. Other times I've used a few passive-damage ones like Defenders Crest and Dreamshield. Shamefully, I accidentally beat the mantis lords posthumously with this technique.

I do wish you got more notches more easily just because it's fun to experiment, but I can't imagine ever sacrificing three slots for, say, Flukenest even though it sounds intriguing

Dreamshield! I used that a lot.

I'd probably use it more but it's a little distracting. def a go-to when trying to crack a boss fight

I used Dreamshield a bit and it fit my play style of moving around rapidly and randomly hitting enemies -- but 3 slots was too much.

For normal wandering, I use Wayward Compass, Gathering Swarm, Longnail, Thorns of Agony pretty much all the time, and I fill out the rest of my notches with stuff like Steady Body (which really helps when you need precision jumping with enemies around).

For bosses, Quick Focus is a must, and if I'm resorting to cheese, Thorns of Agony and Defenders Crest. I might try Dreamshield on the current Warrior Dream that I'm stuck on.

So for the boss that you fight more than once, it's still remarkably hard even despite all the upgrades I've gotten!

It seems I'm way closer to the end than I realized! Is there a point of no return, or can I keep roaming around after beating the game?

I think it's the latter but I'm probably about at the same spot you are

i'm not sure how far i am, but getting the monarch wings reaaaally helped out with exploration. i feel like as soon as i found them i almost doubled the map. it also makes playing the game a lot more fun, imo, control-wise.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/8xdhsg/preend_game_checklist/e23da8i/

When you beat the last boss the game will let you continue to use the save that was created at the last bench you rested at. So you don't really have to stress too much about doing every last thing in the game. You can beat the last boss, then load that save again and keep playing the optional content, and eventually beat the last boss again if you want.

I haven't been playing so I'm way behind you all now. I think it's because I'm not sure where to go next and I just need to explore around the City of Tears, so when I only have a free 20 min I'm unlikely to fire it up (compared to having a clear objective like beating a boss).

well, i beat it. the easy version, not the really hard ending. 77%, 38 hours (i am really slow. also i spent about 5-8 hours mid-game just wandering around, unable to find the double jump or other key abilities and just kind of locked into the same few areas)

question: how hard is it to get the "real" ending? i mean, i know it will be difficult. but is this a 9.5/10 difficulty kind of thing or a 9.9? don't say 10, which may never be used so that there is always the possibility of more difficulty

I got into the Black Egg Temple the last time I played, gave what was inside a shot, and was like "I think I've seen enough of this game". I'll go back to it when I feel like just trying hard bosses repeatedly; the last thing I want to do is go hunting for upgrades

the thing i'm worried about is that the real ending is the classic 'beat every boss you ever fought...but this time, all in a row, without ever healing or changing equipment!' style of 'difficult', and i really don't want to deal with that. if, on the other hand, the ending is kind of interesting and it feels like new stuff rather than a remix, i'm game

"I'll go back to it when I feel like just trying hard bosses repeatedly"

lol I have not beaten this game yet, but I wandered into Godhome and was like, game you don't get me

Yeah, I too have kind of left the game alone after I passed my "this is the hard part" saturation point.

I stopped with the first final boss. But what I've seen of the White Palace level, which comes after the first ending, seems so maddeningly frustrating, like Celeste. The farthest I got in the post-game game, which is a lot different from just replaying bosses afaict, is starting to fight the Grimm Troupe, who were haaaaard. Or maybe they're DLC? Regardless, I never fought them in the first place. I never made it to the coliseum either, for that matter, but that seemed fun.

I also reached a point after the “easy” ending where I realized any additional progress (hard ending, hard version of dlc boss, spirit versions of various bosses) was more effort than it was worth

Ah, I skipped the final round of the coliseum, too

I got to what might be the final boss (what you get to when the masks disappear from the map), but I haven't bothered to beat him yet. Don't know anything about different endings. If there's really a boss rush, I'll lose interest just like I lose interest near the end of Mega Man games.

That's a good question, did I beat all the spirit bosses? I can't remember. I think at some point I realized all the dream nail stuff had nothing really to do with the game, as far as I could tell. It was fun and cool, but I don't know if I finished all the related stuff.

this game is haaaaard and so so gooooooood

not quite sure where to go next. I’m avoiding the brooding mawket (?) for the meantime

dung defender down. second nail upgrade bagged. a couple more locations opened. progress

dung defender is my boyfriend

making good progress now. one dreamer bagged. soul master down. the long dash and vertical smash added to my moveset. just need to find another pale ore (for third nail upgrade) and 7 more charms (for last charm slot off the vendor)

did a dozen or so attempts of the boss inside the black egg last night and was making some progress through the phases, I may yet persevere

omw to the watcher knights ;_;

watcher knights buhbye

19h28m in. two masks done... going for the third next

I took a break from Hollow Knight and beat Yoku's Island Express, which is a fun metroidvania that is much easier.

I finally, finally beat those fuckers the Watcher Knights. I took a break from them for a while to take down The Collector, free a few grubs, & get another nail upgrade. The nail upgrade plus using more of my charge attacks did the trick. Had to restrain myself from triumphantly shouting "EAT IT" in my office cube.

I haven't touched this game in a long time (and Bloodborne for even longer), because I don't think I want to deal with the amount of frustration that I'm sure I'd be courting.

I just beat the first final boss (inside the egg), and got the incomplete ending (95 % of the game completed)... And I gotta say, even though I've loved most of the game, that was quite disappointing. Without having read the Wiki for the game, I would have had no idea what the ending was all about, or how to proceed to get the better ending. I mean...
.
SPOILERS FOR THE FIRST ENDING!
.
.
.
...it looks like the dude was sealed inside the egg for some reason? It seemed like he was the source of the orange light that's infected most of the bugs, but clearly sealing him away didn't make the light disappear, so what was the point of that? So I get egg unsealed, kill the dude, and take his place inside the egg? What did that achieve, aren't we just back to square one? Or is the orange infection now sealed away for good? Who knows?
.
.
.
SPOILERS END.
.
And yeah, I was at complete loss what to do next to get the good ending, so I had to cheat and use the Wiki, and apparently I need to collect way more Essence to get an upgrade that will let me move forward? I'm sure I would've figured it out eventually, but that probably would've taken hours, there's absolutely no hint anywhere you can get an enhanced version of the Dream Nail that lets you do other things.

Despite the obvious freedom of exploration, which I love, I feel like up to this point the game has been pretty good at letting you know what the objective is: find the three dreamers, break the seal on the egg, see what's inside. But here they could've at least given some hint how to move forward.

Also, am I the only one who was surprised that two of the Dreamers were protected by bosses while one wasn't? I had saved that Dreamer the last, because based on the area where it's located I was expecting a really gruesome boss fight. So finally I enter the room with the Dreamer's body, all psyched, and... nothing happens? Where's the boss? Did the developers run out of time to come up with one, or what?

Ok, since my comment above I defeated the Traitor Lord and spoke with the White Lady, and her comments made me understand what the first final boss fight and the incomplete ending were all about. But the fact that you can fight the boss and get the ending without ever having talked with her makes me feel this is the one point where the freedom of exploration (which, like I said, is mostly a good thing) in this game makes its storytelling fail.

nearing the end now I think

beat hornet II. fighting ummuu (?)

completed !

65%

amazing game

the hornet battle music really is something else, soundtrack is soooooo good

Can I play this thing with a keyboard and mouse?

technically you could, and i bet you could get pretty far if you have keyboard master dexterity. but you might also get really frustrated and hulk smash your keyboard? depends on your patience level

this game is a stone cold masterpiece in my opinion and everyone who has switch should own it. I can't believe it costs like 20p too - it's massive

things I know I still have to do:
- unlock about 20+ charms
- complete the second trials
- find isma's tear
- do the flower quest
- all of grimm's troupe
- upgrade my nail one more time
- try godhome (lol?)
- get all charm notches/masks

don't think I went to the white palace either

Dammit you guys making me want to try to finish this again.

I know there is a ton of stuff I didn't do, but I loved every second of what I did do.

Played this again last night trying and failing by to beat Zote. Instead, I'm going to try to get more charms to pick up the last notch from Salubra (I've got 24). I also realized that my nail isn't fully upgraded, so I might try the Colosseum of Fools again (I beat the first wave).

Yay! Got 2 more charms, plus a notch from (the second wave of COF), found/beat the Collector (I'd already found the Love Key but had no idea what to do with it), and beat Zote v1.

Also PSA: if you're doing the delicate flower quest, don't think that, because the dreamgate is not explicitly prohibited, it will work, because I tried it and let's just say I had to go back for a fresh flower.

Finished! 89%.

I gave up on the game last year when I was stuck on the Traitor Lord and the HK, but getting the final upgrade for my nail plus getting quick slash makes boss fights way more forgiving.

I will say that I have very little idea of what's going on in the world, which is too bad.

Ha, I think that's yet another element this game borrows from Dark Souls, this mysterious mythology that is as cool and compelling as it is utterly impenetrable.

Hornet DLC!

Ready your Needle!

First look at Hornet's new adventure coming this Valentine's Day, February 14th! pic.twitter.com/LVgKkPYi1U

— Team Cherry (@TeamCherryGames) February 11, 2019

The mythology is not really unpenetrable! If you just explore the world and talk to everyone you meet, it's not that hard to gather what's happening. Though do you need to talk with the White Lady, acquire the Void Heart, and gather enough soul pieces so the moth prophet will give you her final message... Like I said upthread, if you get to the bad ending (defeat the Hollow Knight without the Void Heart), it might be kinda baffling, but at that point the game is helpful enough to tell you you haven't finished it 100% yet, so you know there's more stuff to discover.

For me, I think that I have a hard time digesting story when I have to read it when I'm gaming, and I also took off several months from the game.

Deserves to be here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFAknD_9U7c

it's a whole new game(!!!) not just DLC, apparently http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2019/02/14/hollow-knight-is-getting-a-full-sequel

FUCK ME UP

SO PRETTY.

Live that her moveset seems to be pretty intact, too!

I beat Zote v2, and started on the White Palace! I expected it to be more rage inducing, but then I’ve only lit two of the lanterns.

I totally stalled out on HK, but I'm excited at the prospect of a new game

This game makes me sad because I could never beat the first hornet and I was loving the game up to the point.

Illl buy this obvs

I did manage to beat Hornet, though I gave up on this game toward the end when all my options narrowed to: fight another boss.

My not-a-real-gamer hope is that they offer different difficulty levels this time--I don't really get denying the Chucks of the world the chance to experience the game in full because they couldn't get past one arbitrary checkpoint. But all I want is more levels to explore, so I will also buy this obvs.

I like the setup in Mario Odyssey, where if you're crap at beating a boss, after a few turns an NPC turns up to give you free hearts.

I probably would've managed the boss fight eventually, but I lost patience with all the preamble (after every fight resurrection you have to wander off for ten minutes to collect hearts before fighting).

I finished the White Palace yesterday! It was strangely not as hard our frustrating as I was expecting? Or maybe I've gotten good at the game? (Probably not, I wasn't terribly close to beating Zote 4.)

I've put 60 hours (and counting) into this game! (103% game completion, I think.)

LATE GAME SPOILERS

I'm currently trying to beat the true boss -- anyone else have luck/advice? Incidentally, I love the design: you go into the dream, strike a cool pose, then the screen goes blank except for the name of the boss. Team Cherry's design sense is so beautiful.

END LATE GAME SPOILERS

I beat The Radiance last night (60 hours, 102%). This really is one of my favorite games of all time. Even though it got really unnecessarily hard at times, I love pretty much everything about it.

So very reassuring to read this thread and realize that the consensus is that the plot is pretty impenetrable.

Managed to mostly avoid spoilers before I caved and looked up all the stuff I was struggling with towards the end and was relieved to realize that it was either stuff that I was never, ever going to figure out (how to open the lifeblood door on the way down to the Abyss) or stuff that wasn't really worth doing.

Now I have to convince myself not to start buying Hollow Knight merch.

I love how instantly iconic Hollow Knight has become, just the design alone.

If you're into collectibles: https://www.fangamer.com/collections/hollow-knight/products/hollow-knight-switch-ps4-pc-collectors-edition-game

I still think about this game a lot, just the mood and style of it. Can't wait for the sequel.

Man, this Hornet is really really really really hard for a second level Boss

― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 1 September 2018 14:56 (nine months ago) Permalink

Beat the hornet!!!!! In just NINE MONTHS.

Fourth level boss to complete by 2021, I reckon

I don’t know what happened to me, but some SM3, and some Celeste, and nine months later I seem to be um much better at video games?

SMB3 is core platform video game training imo

SMB3 is too fucked up for my baby mind and I cleared a lot of Celeste B sides

I watched a couple of minutes of one of those E3 Silksong playthroughs, and given how the visuals and sound and music made me feel, it really made me consider that Hollow Knight could be my favorite game of all time.

Didn't notice, but apparently there was a big interview with the Team Cherry people at the end of December. No "Silksong" release date, but as I understand it they claimed to be almost done. Also hinted at a totally unrelated game they may have in the pipes. It's kind of remarkable how quiet they've been about "Silksong," but on the other hand it's a nice respite from relentless hype. I'd rather they take their time and get it right than overpromise and underdeliver or, worse, rush a release (though they're clearly not running the risk of the latter at this point, lol).

I just hope they had second thoughts about every single jump being slightly out of reach, requiring the new mechanic of grabbing onto the edge of the platform you're trying to reach and pulling yourself up that was present in the preview they showed a few years back. That didn't look very fun...

Radio silence for "Silksong" remains. First announced back in February 2019 but probably started well before that, there's been basically nothing since that announcement trailer three years ago. Hmm.

Yeah I watched that whole Geoff Keighley thing yesterday in hopes of hearing something about Silksong, but nope. Apparently the pandemic hit development extra hard on this one. Still, maybe something will turn up in the coming weeks.

Speak of the devil

https://kotaku.com/hollow-knight-silksong-xbox-game-pass-team-cherry-gamep-1849051064

I sat down to watch Giant Bomb talk over the Xbox thing yesterday, and I actually *screamed* when I saw the Silksong announcement. And I never even *beat* Hollow Knight, I'm such a poser

I never beat it after the first ending, iirc, when the difficulty spikes to perverse levels (buzzsaws and boss rushes!), but I had so much fun with the game I may just play it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_lMn6nalqM

video games are hard to make dude

If that were true, then why are there so many of them?

🤔

Eh

I mean, I’ll buy it but I can wait

This video is pretty jerky

Heh, I agree it's pretty lame. The lack of updates from Team Cherry has been equally mysterious and maddening, though, so I took it as more funny than frustrated. Personally, I kind of admire TC's restraint/radio-silence for going on four years without more than the barest of teases. The last glimpse of gameplay was ... three years ago? Is that right?

60 hours in, i’m probably almost done right? still have at least 10 charms to collect. right now the plan is to finally beat this third colosseum challenge and then go fight the final boss.

loved the experience tho, this game is really impressively deep

I don't know/remember where you are at, exactly, but I believe there is a bit more to do ...

I recommended this to a friend that likes Metroid and Castlevania and generally all points in between, but he found it too oppressively lonely to get into. I don't think he made it far at all, though, so I should pressure him to try again or follow a guide or something.

I loved almost everything about this game, but still ended up bailing after a few (?) bosses due to all the backtracking, getting lost and not knowing where I hadn't been and where I should go, etc.

Yeah I got stuck in the maze after two bosses, but fun while it lasted

I’d love to start from scratch again but there’s no point starting another big game when Zeldas out soon

For a first level boss Hornet was freaking hard a fuck

*er, as fuck

Ori: Will of the Wisps scratched all of the itches of a Metroidvania for me. Hollow Knight felt too monochrome, convoluted, and overly challenging for me and I stopped playing it after about 5-8 hours in. Loved the style, atmosphere and mysteriousness of it, though.

Both Oris are beautiful (in every sense). HK is pretty bleak, though nonetheless pretty cute in its own way.

I think I’m gonna play HK right now. Good plan!

Kind of having my mind boggled that people are calling HK monochrome and too hard when they also play From games.

I loved the bosses and the aesthetic, it was really just the way finding. I think I'm over the Metroidvania thing, it would just stress me out to go past all these areas that were obviously inaccessible until I got some upgrade, then would have to find them all again.

Feels very different from the "aha!" moment you get in a From game when you find the shortcut in a winding level and realize how everything connects.

Just got this game. Died to the first boss

But also I'm playing Ori and they feel quite similar?

I also got stuck/lost and bailed a few hours in. People do love it, but it never really clicked with me. Which is odd cuz I like From games and metroidvania stuff generally. Maybe I’ll give it another spin sometime down the line.

I don’t recall how the map and navigation system works exactly but yeah, I think that was part of what kind of threw the wrench into the works for me.

felt like the first few map areas took me forever to get through but then once i reached the city of tears, the game totally opened up for me. i started navigating and conquering the areas in much shorter times. there is very little hand-holding tho, and it's not always clear where to go (took me forever to find the kingdom's edge smh)

i still haven't mastered the nail arts (rarely use them, prob should use em more), but i've definitely progressed a lot. now i can just demolish that soul warrior guy who it took me something like two hours to beat when i first encountered him in the soul asylum lol

Reportedly Team Cherry quietly changed the "Silksong" domain, which means 6 more weeks of winter.

Been revisiting this in anticipation of whenever Silksong decides to appear. About 15 hours in, just finished Deepnest & Herrah. Is it an unpopular opinion to say this game is maybe *too* big? On my first playthrough, I clocked close to 40 hours and never even finished it, because I just burned out after a while. It makes me wonder if Silksong is going to be even more sprawling, and IDK if I have the stamina for that.

Also I learned recently that there is now a fan-made full voice acting mod, which I just do not understand at all. The gibberish voices are already perfect! I can *kinda* get it from an accessibility standpoint, but from an aesthetic standpoint...meh

I burned out too, the thought of all the Metroidvania backtracking began to feel like a chore. But I really loved the look and feel, and the boss fights, so I'm kinda hoping Silksong will be a tighter experience? Although after all this time I suppose they're going to want to deliver something really big.

i finally got access to the white palace, once i clear this, i think i'm finally ready to fight the knight.

i am def sympathetic to the "too big" feeling, but i have a tendency to completely bury myself in games, so the bigger the better imo. i've clocked close to 100 hours, ready to stop just in time for zelda to take over my life.

Hey gang, just a quick update about Silksong.

We had planned to release in the 1st half of 2023, but development is still continuing. We're excited by how the game is shaping up, and it's gotten quite big, so we want to take the time to make the game as good as we can.

Expect…

— Matthew Griffin (@griffinmatta) May 10, 2023

*gang gets sad*

Ok I'm psyching myself up to get back into this. Curious if it will be possible to get back in the swing of things on my old save, given that I have no memory of anything.

That's sort of a weird waking nightmare I have, that I will be mostly through a challenging game and then get distracted by something else, and by the time I get back to it I have forgotten how to do anything.

Haha. Ok, it took a few bumbling deaths and accidentally selling something for a few hundred currency units and dying again, but I'm back in! Apparently I'm at the Royal Waterway, and I've found two bosses there.

Lol, yesterday I beat the infamous Dung Defender, then in the next area I threw all of my money in a fountain just before running into the map seller and the paid bench unlock for the area. I guess I thought it might function like a bank? That one is really on me.

i love the dung defender

I'm fully committed now, but I've seldom had less idea where I'm supposed to go in a video game.

I've got the super dash and the double jump so now we're fully ready to wander.

I accessed the 'dream nail' version of one of the bosses (Broken Vessel/Lost Kin) for the first time, did you all do those? Is it worth it? I like the boss battles but I'm not especially compelled to repeat them, but maybe it's something you do later on when you're fully powered up?

It's been too long to remember the details, but I don't recall a clear incentive to do all the dream nail battles. But I didn't do all the post-game/deep endgame stuff, either, so maybe it has something to do with that?

Lol, yesterday I beat the infamous Dung Defender, then in the next area I threw all of my money in a fountain just before running into the map seller and the paid bench unlock for the area. I guess I thought it might function like a bank? That one is really on me.

― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Thursday, May 11, 2023 3:08 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

If put 3000 geo in it gives you a vessel fragment, which I only discovered after looking at a guide and trying to figure out how I'd missed so many upgrades

I'm currently playing on the Switch which I'm convinced has some control issues over the PC version, I've played both now and I don't think it's just me. It just feels like something is slightly off and they aren't tight enough to pull off certain moves with confidence every time. I find I'm constantly ending up diving straight into the ground when I should be going left/right, and it feels the game only randomly decides when you've successfully pulled off a downstrike or not leading to some sections just being absolute misery. Trying to obtain the vessel fragment in Deepnest is the worst so far, total hell.

Supposedly there's been some movement on the Silksong front. Has there ever been a game that missed an entire console generation between announcement and release?

duke nukem forever was announced in 1997 and released in 2011. and wow was it worth the wait!!!!

Def the Chinese Democracy of games. That Bethesda game that came out last year was under dev for at least 10 years, but apparently only announced 5 years before it came out.

When did half life 3 come out again?

When it finally drops, I'll be curious what the story was that drove development to take so long. I don't care if they're a small studio, the first game took a small handful of people only 3-4 years to create. 7+ years is a long time for this genre, even if a solo developer was putting it together. I'd be willing to bet the pandemic and lockdown had a huge negative impact.

Though perhaps it will be like 2-3 times the size of the first game; an Elden Ring style expansion over DS3?

I assume they calculated their days-cash-on-hand and decided to blow up the scope

Delays are understandable, but I wonder what accounts for Team Cherry's near complete radio silence?

They don’t owe you shit is what

For sure. That's why they don't *have* to do it. But they do have a web presence - twitter, facebook, youtube, website - just not one that's updated. At this point I'm honestly more worried for the team than anxious for a new game.

You think this team of three people who made bank with their first game are struggling to keep the lights on?

No, I was thinking more mentally/emotionally.

Yeah true... I imagine they won't be rushing into Hollow Knight 3 after this one drops.