The bread thread!

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(sorry for dumb title)

This is where we post our favorite bread recipes (NOT FOR BREAD MACHINES) and our own little adjustments, concoctions, and preferences. My basic recipe's snagged from Mark Bittman's How to Cook Everything which in turn is snagged from Charlie Van Over's Bread Bible, now OOP.

In food processor blend:

3 1/2 c. bread flour (I use 2 1/2 c white bread flour, 1/2 c. whole wheat and a scant 1/2 c. oat bran)
2t. salt
1.5t. rapid rise yeast

slowly add, while pulsing in mixer:

2T unsalted butter, room temp.
1 c + 2T. whole milk
1/4 c. plain yogurt

stop when the mixture forms a loose ball. Knead for two minutes.

Add [fresh rosemary, thyme, cinnamon, basil, shredded asiago, etc.] and let rise for 2 hrs. in warm place.

Remove when doubled, punch down and form into sandwich loaf. If desired add [raisins, sundried (sun dried, not sundried) tomatoes, nuts, what-have-you] cover and let rise for 1 hr. more.

Bake in 350 oven for 1/2 hr. - 45 minutes or until hollow-sounding.

Remy (x Jeremy), Monday, 4 April 2005 19:55 (seventeen years ago) link

until hollow-sounding when topped on the bottom.

Remy (x Jeremy), Monday, 4 April 2005 19:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Good god, how many books named Bread Bible are there? I have two, neither of which is the one you describe.

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 4 April 2005 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

You could add the nuts etc. before the first rise, also.

I am 3000 miles away from my assorted bibles. Here's one idea, though, that I found recently: add, oh, 1/2 cup raisins into 1 cup hot hot water, and let them macerate for maybe 10 minutes. Then blend the mixture. Use this liquid instead of water. Goes well with whole wheat or rye flours, gives the bread an interesting raisiny sweetness.

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 4 April 2005 20:54 (seventeen years ago) link

You can also boil down pears, say, mush them up in some water, and use that. Add fresh ground pepper and you're pretty much on your way to making piquenchagne!

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 4 April 2005 20:54 (seventeen years ago) link

If I add pears should I cut-back on the sugar?

Remy (x Jeremy), Monday, 4 April 2005 21:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I always have trouble getting my bread really fluffy-white and not then going stale after a day. I thnk I need proper strong bread flour, but supermarkets only seem to sell ready mixed bread machine shit here.

I like the idea of yogurt in bread! WOuld make it tangy and moist mmm.

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 4 April 2005 23:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Remy: Yes, cut back on the sugar (maybe use a little dollop of honey instead?).

Trayce: Two hints. First, oils are your friends for staying moist, I believe -- so some butter or vegetable oil should help. Maybe a tbsp per loaf? Also, make sure you are standing your breads on their ends after you've cut into them. You want only protective crust to be exposed to the air. That will help keep them fresh.

If you're making white bread (American style sammich bread) then you can stick to AP flour without worry, I believe. If you're making French style bread with thick crusts and big air holes then you'll want the bread flour.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 04:48 (seventeen years ago) link

why is it when we make onion bread that the bread around the onions goes a bit bluey/green? It tastes good still, but the colour is a bit on the wrong side. We fry the onions first to get a bit of caramelization. We ask cos we just got a loaf from Tom Rhumb of all places and it's lovel;y and not a bit of discolouration

Vicky (Vicky), Sunday, 10 April 2005 02:08 (seventeen years ago) link

oops, it's not Vicky, it's Chris. and apologies for the poor typing I'm a bit tipsy, we decided to take a bump on our flight and have an extra night of boozing.....

Vicky (Vicky), Sunday, 10 April 2005 02:32 (seventeen years ago) link

That is a good question, and nothing immediately comes to mind -- I haven't had any such problems, but I haven't made that many breads with onions. What sort of onions, what sort of bread?

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 11 April 2005 01:03 (seventeen years ago) link

a standard white loaf, and it's red onions usually, if there was going to be any colour leaching you'd think it would be red, but no - bluey/green.... doesn't taste bad mind.

Vicky (Vicky), Monday, 11 April 2005 11:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Re: blue-green onions

I just read about this! I got Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking a few months ago and have been ploughing through it. Here's what it says: "Sometimes the solid ingredients folded into bread and muffin batters turn disconcerting colors.... This happens when the mix contains too much baking soda or when the soda isn't evenly mixed in the batter, so that there are concentrated alkaline pockets. Because the anthocyanin and related pigments in fruits, vegetables, and nuts are sensitive to pH, and their normal surroundings are acidic, alkaline batters cause their colors to change."

So, acidify and the onions might stay red.

Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:54 (seventeen years ago) link

discolouration from onions would happen sometimes at ratner's (RIP), a fantastic old kosher dairy restaurant in nyc. they had the most wonderful onion rolls, but you'd get the odd bluey bit. the first time it happened, i was afraid i'd got a moldy one until the waiter reassured me.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:24 (seventeen years ago) link

You could slosh in and reduce a little vinegar (balsamic if you're feeling swanky) after caramelising the onions - that'd acidify them good and proper. Although it might affect the overall bread colour as well.

Liz :x (Liz :x), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I just made some rye bread with walnuts and raisins added. No caraway seeds. It's very nice!

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Chris - I owe you a big email about my piquenchagne experiments.

Remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link


Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:18 (seventeen years ago) link

So an office coworker was feening for some babka, and I made her one, and it made her day. But I've never really had babka, so I couldn't tell whether it was "authentic" or not. She said it was very good but not quite there -- it should be "less flaky more cakey". I will have to do some research into this -- is this generally true (or is there, as seems likely, more than one thing masquerading as babka) and if so how do I make it less flaky more cakey (first thought is adding some oil, but that might be totally wrong).

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Maybe egg yolk instead of oil?

Jaq (Jaq), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Well there are three full eggs in it already. Maybe just the yolks? Hmm. I have to hunt down more recipes.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:41 (seventeen years ago) link

I wonder if lower gluten flour would make it cakier?

Jaq (Jaq), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, doing a little research on other recipes, it seems like your egg yolk suggestion might be the answer.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 22 April 2005 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm sure the discoloration is due to using red onions. When red onions leak it's this odd blue/grey colour which is unappetising to say the least. Perhaps try with some alternative sweet onions.

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Monday, 25 April 2005 07:57 (seventeen years ago) link

two months pass...
I made challah last weekend, and it turned out well. I used the Beard on Bread recipe - it calls for 3 pkgs of yeast though. I thought there was something in here about "less yeast + longer risings = better bread". Is this generally the case? Do breads that have eggs need more yeast? I'm baking some more today.

Jaq (Jaq), Saturday, 23 July 2005 16:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Less yeast will give a longer rising, and a longer rising will usually mean a more complex flavor. The temperature the bread rises at is important, because the yeast produces different chemicals depending on what the temperature is. So a lot of breads can be made more interesting by letting the first rise happen slowly in the fridge. (After, say, an hour of rising at normal temperature -- the first for bounce, the second for flavor.)

It will then take a while to warm up and for the yeast to be active again -- that second rise will take a good long while!

That said: I cannot off the top of my head remember if eggs interfere with yeast. I don't think they do; I don't seem to remember adding insane amounts of yeast when making brioche. Three packages of yeast for a single loaf? That seems like a ridiculous amount of yeast. If it's a package per loaf, that is probably too much, but not an unreasonable amount.

Another recipe I have recommends 2 1/4 tsp (of instant yeast, not active dry) for a 3 pound loaf. (1 tsp for a sponge, and the rest for the main dough.) So that's about one package, right? If you're using active dry yeast, you want to use, as I recall, about a third more.

So yeah, if it's 5-6 cups of flour, try just one package.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 24 July 2005 06:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Also: 8.5 inch bread pans might be good for quickbreads, but they are totally lamer than lame when making actual breads. The loaves are too small to do anything with! Will the 9" pans do me better, or should I just jump ahead to 10" jumbo pans? I don't really have recipes for 10"ers but I suspect I can figure it out.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 24 July 2005 07:02 (seventeen years ago) link

(insert rude gratuitous size queen comment about going for the 10")

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 24 July 2005 14:24 (seventeen years ago) link

A man's gotta be able to make a sammich, is all I'm saying. ;-)

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 24 July 2005 15:06 (seventeen years ago) link

So this challah recipe makes 2 braided loaves, using 5 cups of flour. The loaves are lovely, light yellow, finely textured with a thin but crispish crust. They make excellent french toast and bread pudding, and are nice as toast (esp. with nutella). But there's not much interesting about them. I think Beard had little faith in yeast and that's why the overkill of 3 packages. We left yesterday as it was rising, and it overflowed the bowl. But it's also hot here, so the fridge would have been a better place than the counter. I'm going to try it again today with the lesser yeast and a cool first rising.

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 24 July 2005 16:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Also make a sponge. Mix all the water, a cup or so of the flour, and half the yeast together and let it sit for 4 hours (or longer) and become flavorous, and then add the rest of the flour, yeast, enrichments, salt, etc. That should fill out the flavor a bit.

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:12 (seventeen years ago) link

I timed things really badly yesterday. Ended up having the loaves rise overnight down in the basement where it's cooler, but still they were kind of overblown and dried out this morning. Tasted okay, but were flatter than they should have been and the crust was funky.

Also, brushing them with egg yolk at 5 am went badly. I'm not a morning person.

I'll give the sponge a go, though maybe not for challah. I was keen on the egg bread because we inadvertantly ended up with 6 dozen eggs in the fridge.

Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, I got the Rose Levy Berenbaum (sp?) Bread Bible at the library today and a sponge is fermenting away in the fridge. I'm going to try for some kind of free-form oblong rustic white bread with olive oil in it, some time tomorrow.

Jaq (Jaq), Saturday, 30 July 2005 02:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, this loaf turned out most excellent. Made the sponge yesterday with 1 1/3 c. of water, a tsp. of bread machine yeast, 1 tbsp. of sugar, and 1 c. of flour. Whisk this all together, cover with plastic wrap and let sit for an hour or more. I then whisked it again, recovered it and put it in the fridge overnight.

To finish it, I added 1 1/4 c. of flour and 3/4 c. of whole wheatmeal, 1.5 tsp salt, and 1/2 tsp more of yeast, whacking it around with the doughhook of the Kitchenaid while dribbling in about 1/4 c. of olive oil. Once it was a nice ball of dough, I kneaded by hand, then returned to an oiled bowl until doubled. This took a great while, because the sponge was cold out of the fridge when I mixed it up.

Punched it down, shaped into a ball, covered for another 45 min. rise, then baked at 450 F on the cast iron pizza pan for 30 min. Gorgeous.

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 31 July 2005 02:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Alas, I am hopeless at getting the photos to show up. It's here:

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 31 July 2005 02:48 (seventeen years ago) link

As long as you don't try making her quick breads, Berenbaum will not fail you. I was going to say, "That's challah?!" but then I reread.

God, you score bread so much better than I do. Do you own a lame or what?

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 31 July 2005 02:52 (seventeen years ago) link

What is this lame? I have a long, incredible sharp carving knife that did the trick. I think the dough having a bit of oil on it helped.

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 31 July 2005 03:03 (seventeen years ago) link

A lame is a knife specifically used to score bread.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 31 July 2005 03:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Really nice loaf, Jaq! Also, I'm admiring your rack (only on the cooking board could I say that without getting whalloped) and wondering where I might find a similar one?

Remy (x Jeremy), Sunday, 31 July 2005 03:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Heh! I got that at Seattle Restaurant Supply. Restaurant supply places are the best for cooking stuff I think, and besides commercial kitchen size stuff have an unimaginable selection of weird unusual things and decent prices.

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 31 July 2005 12:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I finally went to the restaurant supply place in Portland, and it was excellent. They had all the generic cups and salad bowls I would need to open my dream generic 1980s Italian restaurant! Plus they had the large food-storage buckets -- I need to pick one up for making sauerkraut in.

My friends picked up a cooling rack that would stack perfectly on top of yours but doesn't really stand well on its on. Unless I'm doing it wrong. Which is possible.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 31 July 2005 16:41 (seventeen years ago) link

I also have a huge monster of a cooling rack: 3 ft x 4 ft. It is taking up space on a garage wall at the moment. I don't remember what possessed me to purchase it - at the time I was single and living alone. I did use it to glaze an enormous quantity of cookies one year, when 2 offspring were in residence.

My favorite thing from the supply shop: aluminum pizza pans - cheap, fairly durable, usable to bake on or as serving trays. Also, I got my 10" Chicago Metalworks (something like that) loaf pan there. The 10" really is the one to go for, what's a smeasly 1/2" difference from that 8.5" to 9" gonna do, really?

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 31 July 2005 17:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, it increases the volume 150%, apparently. (Recipes that make 3 8.5" loaves make 2 9" loaves.) I don't know how much more usable the slices of bread are, though, since I haven't fiddled with one. I'll eventually get both of course.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 31 July 2005 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, it increases the volume 150%, apparently.

Hmmm. I question the mathematical principles at play here. There is some kind of baking magic happening. An 8.5 x 4.5 x 2.75 pan has 105.1875 cu. in. A 10 x 5 x 2.75 pan has only 137.5, for a net volume increase of 30.72%. It must be in the increased volume of the loaf above the pan.

Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 1 August 2005 02:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Well.... you guys really sound like you know what you're on about re bread making, I've been searching the net for a dark rye bread recipe and can't seem to find one with measurements I can comprehend (just what exactly is one cake of yeast?!), and without obscure ingredients. I like the sound of molasses, but not teacle or cocoa. Does anybody have a simple but good dark rye bread recipe for a novice?

Frankie, Monday, 1 August 2005 04:42 (seventeen years ago) link

post-note: I'm in Australia - which might explain the yeast cake far as I know most commonly purchased yeast here is dry - in 7g sachets

Frankie, Monday, 1 August 2005 04:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeast was sold in cakes mostly back in the old days, right? I think I have still seen it sold that way -- it's like a boullion cube of yeast, or somesuch. Find recipes that call for "active dry" or better yet "instant dry" (if you can find it, also known as "rapid rise" or "bread machine" even though you don't have to use it in a bread machine) yeast.

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 1 August 2005 05:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, if I remember tomorrow I'll try to look up the conversion for a cake of yeast to a regular type of yeast.

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 1 August 2005 05:38 (seventeen years ago) link

One cake of yeast = one package (2.5 tsp) of active dry yeast.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 16:23 (seventeen years ago) link

i've just picked up breadmaking but it's frustrating. so far i've made "cuban bread" and "feather bread" but they're coming out denser than i'd like. is this me or the recipe? it's fun anyway, i'll keep trying.

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 8 August 2005 01:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Add less flour, or get fresher yeast. But probably add less flour.

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 8 August 2005 01:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Knead like there's no tomorrow.

Remy (x Jeremy), Monday, 8 August 2005 02:25 (seventeen years ago) link

two months pass...

Modified from James Beard's freeform white loaf -

2 cups white flour
1 cup warm water
2 tsp yeast

Stir together, cover with plastic wrap, let ferment overnight (or at least 4 hours) in a cool place. (BTW - Chris, thanks so much for pointing out the sponge thing for better flavor!)

After fermenting, knock the sponge down and let it warm up for an hour, then mix in 1/2 cup water, 2 cups whole wheat flour, 3 tbsp olive oil, 1 tbsp coarse salt. Knead in another 1/2 cup of flour (I kneaded this for a good long time, probably 15 minutes). Let rise covered in an oiled bowl until doubled. Punch down and let rise again in the covered bowl. Punch down, shape into a round or oblong on a baking sheet sprinkled with corn meal. Cover and let rise until doubled. Slash top, brush with cold water. Have oven preheated to 425 F. Put the loaf in, then immediately turn the temp down to 375 F. After 20 minutes, brush with cold water again, then finish baking for 40-50 minutes, until the bottom of the loaf sounds hollow when knocked on.

Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 00:35 (seventeen years ago) link

This loaf has a texture that would be excellent with rosemary baked in and coarse salt sprinkled on top, btw.

Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 00:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Again with the lovely scoring! Next time only put half a tsp of yeast in with the sponge and add the rest with the rest of the ingredients. IF YOU DARE, that is. If you are letting it cool overnight then you want it in a fairly cold place, like 45F, to retard growth and cause the production of what we shall call "yummy enzymes".

I haven't made bread (other than pizza dough) for over a month BUT Wednesday-Friday will be a breadmaking orgy as I prepare for a weekend visiting a friend in central Oregon. I am looking forward to it.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 00:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Would you share your pizza dough secrets? I've never tried to make it.

Now that it's cooled down (70's most days after 100's into Sept.), it's perfect baking weather. Does it matter what kind of yeast you use for the sponge/later addition? I've got both the rapid rise bread machine stuff and a huge bag of regular Red Star.

Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 00:57 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't necessarily have pizza dough secrets -- I use the Bread Bible thin crust recipe (which I've posted here before) but I just tried the Cooks Illustrated recipe which is more normal pizza dough. Both are great. Apparently some people prefer to use active dry yeast for pizza dough, but since almost everyone says the two types are, taste-wise, indistinguishable, I'm chalking that up to tradition.

If you're looking to use up the active dry stuff, use it for the sponge; since you kinda have to activate it in warm water, it doesn't work so well for adding in later. But I generally use the instant/rapid-rise stuff.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 01:25 (seventeen years ago) link

three months pass...
I got a french bread pan for christmas and made my first attempt at baguettes today. Used the "french-style" recipe from James Beard Beard on Bread with tasty results:

Jaq (Jaq), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:15 (sixteen years ago) link

They look great. I haven't made baguettes in ages. If you see a copy of The Village Baker, grab it, and then try its various baguette recipes.

My first sourdough starter failed, but I will try again.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 29 January 2006 00:47 (sixteen years ago) link

five months pass...

ringtones free, Monday, 3 July 2006 10:33 (sixteen years ago) link


funny ringtones, Monday, 3 July 2006 12:43 (sixteen years ago) link

After a long hiatus, I am made some rye bread today. And little rye rolls with raisins. Ah, it's nice.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 01:42 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

Revive as I have entered the world of bread making and I need some sagely advice.

So far I've done about 5 or so plain white loaves and various buns with fairly pleasing results but I can't seem to get that lovely almost cakey texture my dad manages to get (and my ulterior motive is that I want to go head to head against him at the village show he's entering next year).

My questions are thus -
When I'm getting the dough out of the bowl for kneading - what should the consistency be, sticky, very slightly sticky or dry? I'm finding that if its sticky I probably ended up throwing in the same amount of flour again into it via the floured surface so I guess thats not right. The totally dry doughs have tended to get a pretty heavy end result. Mind you I've only just started putting vegetable oil or something similar into the mix to try and get a lighter bread.

I've heard that any extra goodies you throw in from herbs to chopped onion etc. should be put in after the first rise. Is this right?

Another piece of advice I've got is to add the salt as late in the kneading process as you can (sprinkling it onto the dough and working it in) so it doesn't interfere with the yeast. Does that make sense?

Is there any way to rescue a dough that doesn't rise much?

Lynskey, Saturday, 13 October 2007 12:48 (fifteen years ago) link

The way the dough should be depends on the type of bread - wetter doughs make coarser chewier breads with bigger holes generally (focaccia, etc). The loaf I usually make has a good glug of olive oil in it, and is slightly sticky after the first rise. It takes a few sprinkles of flour, maybe 1/4 cup max.

You might try adding a little milk or whey as part of your liquid - the extra protein gives a nice texture and lightens the loaf.

I always throw the salt in when I mix it up initially, but I also start with a biga so the yeast has had a chance to work overnight. To make a biga, mix 1 cup of lukewarm water with a cup of flour and a packet (1.5 tsp/7.5 ml) dry yeast. Cover and let it sit in a cool place (even the fridge) overnight. It will get frothy and yeasty smelling. Use it to make up the dough with the remainder of the liquid and flour and other ingredients and toss in 1 tsp (5 ml) of instant bread machine yeast too.

Jaq, Saturday, 13 October 2007 16:14 (fifteen years ago) link

I've found that if you mix in the salt too late in the process, it doesn't mix in properly.

Your typical dough should be "tacky", maybe like a post-in note. At first you're likely to make it too dry so that it's "workable" but you'll eventually figure out how to deal with a tackier bread.

If your dough isn't rising much, either you're not giving it enough time, or it's very cold where you're trying to let it rise, or it's old yeast. I wonder, if you end up with a dough that won't rise much, if you bake it anyways, and your bread is too dense to be worth eating, if it would still make decent breadcrumbs.

Casuistry, Saturday, 13 October 2007 17:51 (fifteen years ago) link

or, bread pudding

Really stodgy heavy dense loaves can really soak up the egg custard mix.

Jaq, Saturday, 13 October 2007 17:56 (fifteen years ago) link

Totally cracked it thanks to reading through this thread. Veg oil in the dough and water in the oven have worked wonders with the texture. Tried 3 different things and came up trumps every time. Some rolls with Malthouse flour (a mix of white and rye flour with malt flakes) that are wonderfully doughy in texture, a loaf using Spelt flour that looks and smells lovely but I've not tried it yet, and finally a platted white bread thing that made an awesome prawn sandwich. My mother in law was visiting and showed me how to do the platting bit.

Lynskey, Saturday, 13 October 2007 18:33 (fifteen years ago) link

Really stodgy heavy dense loaves can really soak up the egg custard mix.

This is a virtue with french toast too.

Madchen, Monday, 15 October 2007 16:24 (fifteen years ago) link

Nice braiding.

Casuistry, Monday, 15 October 2007 20:44 (fifteen years ago) link

one year passes...

One year later and I am back on a bread baking spree. Two days ago, a standard sandwich loaf (flour/water/yeast/salt, tiny glug of olive oil). It got too late to bake, so I punched it down and left it in the fridge overnight, gave it a second rise the next day, and a final rise in the pan. It ended up with a nice texture but a sort of weird crust. Today I'm trying James Beard's pain de mie recipe, though I don't have the special lidded pan. I will weigh it down with cast iron, probably.

I have a bunch of eggs right now, so next will probably be some challah, though I also really want to try making brioche at some point.

Jaq, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link

weird. I'm battering out the soda bread at a rate of knots at the mo, was just thinking of reviving this thread

I'm thinking also of getting a sourdough starter on the go, but I'm just not sure I have the time

Matt, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:23 (fourteen years ago) link

I've been thinking about sourdough too, or maybe a whack at catching some wild free-floating local yeast. There is something very bready about fall....

Jaq, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:43 (fourteen years ago) link

I decided to just bake the pain de mie dough as a regular loaf - good thing too, I think it would have blown the lid off if I tried to bake that much dough in my standard loaf pan. As it was, it bloomed so much the crust grew up into the broiler element:
The dough has 1/4 lb of butter cut into the flour/salt before mixing with the yeast/water. Really tasty and a great texture - easy to slice really thinly too.

Jaq, Thursday, 16 October 2008 14:29 (fourteen years ago) link


Tracer Hand, Friday, 17 October 2008 01:53 (fourteen years ago) link

What a Gehry-esque crust. I like it. The crumb seems really tight, though -- is it dense?

Casuistry, Friday, 17 October 2008 05:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes but staying moist and a really good keeper so far. It's a dry-ish, heavy dough, exhausting to work (unless you were really angry about something when you started kneading).

6 c. flour, 5 tsp kosher flake salt, 1/4 lb butter, 1 tbsp active dry yeast, 1 3/4 - 2 c warm water, 2 tsp sugar. Proof the yeast in 1/2 c water with sugar. Sift flour and salt together. Cut in the butter but don't overwork. Add 1/4 cup water to the yeast mixture, then mix in the flour mixture (with one hand only! The instructions are very specific. WHY???) Add the remaining water and mix to a dry sticky dough, turn out and knead HARD, let rise in well-buttered bowl, punch down, let rest a few minutes, knead hard again, let rise, punch down, let rest, knead hard for a few minutes and form into a loaf. Let rise in the pan and bake at 400 F for 40-50 min. If you actually have the proper pain de mie (or Pullman loaf) pan, there are additional gyrations of timing and temperature and pan flipping and finishing out of the pan on the oven rack.

Jaq, Friday, 17 October 2008 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link

I need a reliable yeast roll recipe, plz. From folks who've actually made it. Thx!
Too, I need a link to Is That Pie?

Ai Lien, Sunday, 19 October 2008 22:46 (fourteen years ago) link

My family-handed-down-for-generations recipe is called Presbyterian Rolls. This makes about 70 rolls, and the recipe can be halved. I always make up the full amount and freeze after making out into rolls the ones I don't want immediately:

1 c. lard or Crisco
3/4 c. sugar
1 tsp. salt
1 c. boiling water

Stir together until shortening is melted.

1 c. cold water, add after shortening is melted.
2 eggs, well beaten
2 cakes yeast (2 pkgs active dry yeast, or I use about a tablespoon) dissolved in 1/4 c. lukewarm water
8 c. flour (or more as needed)

Note: you can also use rapid rise (bread machine) yeast - you don't have to mix it in water separately, and can use a scant tablespoon.

Mix the second set of wet ingredients together well with the melted shortening/water/sugar/salt mixture. Stir in flour, 1 cup at a time, until the dough is workable. Turn out onto a floured board and knead until smooth. Let rise in a buttered bowl until doubled in size. Punch down and make into rolls (roll out about 1/2" thick, cut into 2" circles and fold in half on cookie sheet is my family's preferred method). Bake in a 350 deg F oven for 20-30 minutes.

You can make the dough a day or two ahead of time and keep wrapped in the refrigerator. Take them out 2 hours before you want to bake them.

Is That....Pie? is here:

Jaq, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:23 (fourteen years ago) link

jaq dude, can i put that on "how to nom"?

Tracer Hand, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:24 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't mind Tracer, as long as it's attributed and you link it back to the post on Is That....Pie? once I have the photo essay up after Thanksgiving. I keep getting Page Not Founds when I go to Browse on HTN, or when I try the direct link that I have in the blogroll on the ITP? site.

Jaq, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:32 (fourteen years ago) link


i'll definitely source you!

Tracer Hand, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:34 (fourteen years ago) link

which link gives you a page not found?

Tracer Hand, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:35 (fourteen years ago) link

If I click on "Browse" from the main page of How to Nom, or if I use the link to the /recipe as in the post above.

Jaq, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Can you only browse if you are a member? If so, I'll take the link off of the Is That....Pie? blogroll.

Jaq, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:37 (fourteen years ago) link

no, you should be able to browse as a non-registered user, i'll try to fix that.

is that... pie looks pretty great!

Tracer Hand, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:43 (fourteen years ago) link

I was able to browse a few days ago when I linked it up, but I don't know when it broke. Just now noticed I can't browse, so maybe something changed?

Jaq, Monday, 20 October 2008 03:54 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah, lots has changed! mainly under the hood. i must have dropped a wrench in there somewhere, cause none of the recipes were showing up for unregistered users but now they are!

Tracer Hand, Monday, 20 October 2008 04:18 (fourteen years ago) link

if i get a blogroll thingie goin i will link to PIE(?) for sure

Tracer Hand, Monday, 20 October 2008 04:19 (fourteen years ago) link

five years pass...

I'm currrently experimenting with various things in terms of breadmaking. I got a breadmaker machine from LIDL a couple of weeks ago and have been making loaves since then, did a couple of bread mixes taht I bought from LIDl to progressive degrees of success as ingredients were more accurately measured.
Have now progressed to trying to make loaves to a basic recipe adapted from one taht came with the breadmaker. So I successfully made one loaf substituting apple&mango juice not from concentrate for the water and molasses for sugar and using malthouse flour. Came out pretty well, didn't seem to have a great deal of flavour the night it was made but did the day after and is pretty tasty today. Not sure how long a loaf will last sans preseratives.
Then yesterday i tried something else. I shredded several vegetables garlic, ginger, a bit of chili pepper, red pepper, carrots, aubergine, courgette, cabbage, a bit of butternut squash basically what I make a stir fry out of. Bunged into this veg shredder I bought last year, came out as about a bowlful when shredded. Then put that in with some mixed liquids which came to about 200 ml, a spoonful of molasses and 25 g of yeast. Worked just about but bread is a bit denser like a ginger cake or a fruit/nut loaf so wondering if that is the inevitable result.
Bread is interesting, edible but I'm not 100% sure how recognisable the flavour is and there is an after-flavour presumably from the ginger/garlic/chilli.
So it worked to some extent but may need some honing. Not sure if it might have been better if I remembered to add salt. Or if soy sauce would make a possible substitute which was another idea.

Was told last night that salt is there to feed yeast or at least to some extent and I know I need to look further into reactions like that. Salt and sugar both there at least partially to feed yeast. Sugar helps make the crust the way it works out. Not sure if any of that would be done by other ingredients if you're adding fruit or veg or whatever. Need to read further and not really sure where to look.

Stevolende, Monday, 11 November 2013 14:36 (nine years ago) link

ooh - interesting. I thought salt retarded yeast, but maybe I misread that somewhere...

Vic Arpeggio, Private Investigator (stevie), Monday, 11 November 2013 15:08 (nine years ago) link

one month passes...

I'm making Jim Lahey's duper famous no-knead recipe right now; it took about 5 minutes to stir and now it's sitting on the counter for 12 or 18 more hours. I'll resume it in the morning

queen bey backers (Stevie D(eux)), Saturday, 28 December 2013 00:58 (eight years ago) link

one year passes...

I can't remember where in orbit was talking about yeast not working. Reading this book about fermentation - residual chlorine in treated water can kill it, so maybe that's what's going on? Leave tap water sitting out for a day or two, stirring occasionally or pouring from container to container to aerated.

Jaq, Sunday, 11 January 2015 16:43 (seven years ago) link

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