Mike Trout needs his own thread

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he is now at 9.4 rwar for the season. his closest competitor is robinson cano, who has played 21 more games, at 6.2. fwar is a bit more circumspect, but still gives him significant lead.

he leads the majors in stolen bases, runs scored and ops+

randal grichuk, whom the angels took one pick ahead of trout, is having a nice season in high-a ball.

this fucking guy.

mookieproof, Sunday, 2 September 2012 23:09 (seven years ago) link

he's probably not gonna top A-Rods ridiculous age 20 season but yeah this is getting stupid

frogbs, Monday, 3 September 2012 04:58 (seven years ago) link

He's only not going to top it cuz he missed a month (although to be fair to A-Rod he only played 146 games it looks like.)

Totally proves the draft is a complete crapshoot.

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 3 September 2012 14:41 (seven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

TROUT

kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 29 September 2012 00:11 (seven years ago) link

...and a triple to go with his homer after two AB. Geez, if he hits for the cycle, you'll have to disown him.

clemenza, Saturday, 29 September 2012 01:11 (seven years ago) link

:p

prefer 2 more HRs

kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 29 September 2012 01:12 (seven years ago) link

he really is pretty good
i mean, he is definitely probably one of the nice surprises this season, roy material

Thanks WEBSITE!! (Z S), Saturday, 29 September 2012 01:23 (seven years ago) link

he's in the running for rookie of the year for sure

la goonies (k3vin k.), Saturday, 29 September 2012 01:25 (seven years ago) link

Ruth of the Year

kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 29 September 2012 01:27 (seven years ago) link

does he have a nickname yet? we need to get on this. his last name is Trout for crissake, this should be low hanging fruit

Thanks WEBSITE!! (Z S), Saturday, 29 September 2012 01:34 (seven years ago) link

Rainbow and Dizzy are taken

kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 29 September 2012 01:38 (seven years ago) link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutthroat_trout

mookieproof, Saturday, 29 September 2012 01:41 (seven years ago) link

too bad he couldn't have played in the same outfield as tim salmon.

omar little, Saturday, 29 September 2012 02:24 (seven years ago) link

or rogers smallmouth-bass

zachylon (zachlyon), Saturday, 29 September 2012 04:17 (seven years ago) link

30th dinger

kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 30 September 2012 19:12 (seven years ago) link

first 30/30 rookie

kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 30 September 2012 19:13 (seven years ago) link

Top of the 6th, he's 4-4 with a double, triple, and 3 RBI--off Felix. Unbelievable.

clemenza, Tuesday, 2 October 2012 03:57 (seven years ago) link

MIKE TROUT

Month AL WAR Rank

May 1
June 1
July 1
August 1
September 2

Thanks WEBSITE!! (Z S), Tuesday, 2 October 2012 22:41 (seven years ago) link

he's really fallen off

la goonies (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 2 October 2012 22:42 (seven years ago) link

five months pass...

The Los Angeles Angels renewed the contract of AL Rookie of the Year Mike Trout for $510,000. The salary is $20,000 above the major league minimum.

seems a bit like leaving a $1 tip on a $100 check. there must be ways of saving money that don't involve insulting your best player

mookieproof, Saturday, 2 March 2013 22:35 (six years ago) link

every player goes through this and they already gave him 1+ mil just to sign. he'll buy a few yachts once he hits arb.

This is called money bags. (zachlyon), Saturday, 2 March 2013 22:40 (six years ago) link

but don't mind me i have trouble treating baseball contracts with the appropriate relativity

This is called money bags. (zachlyon), Saturday, 2 March 2013 22:41 (six years ago) link

If B-R numbers are right, it doesn't look like recent Rookies of the Year have gotten massive bumps in their next season.

I don't know that throwing him an extra $500k this season buys any more loyalty when the time comes for his $200mn contract in a few seasons.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 4 March 2013 17:31 (six years ago) link

scratch that - http://mlb.sbnation.com/2013/3/4/4062060/mike-trout-salary-los-angeles-angels

increases were quite a bit larger, just not in raw $$$

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 4 March 2013 17:35 (six years ago) link

i'm sure he'll do v. well in arbitration and that he'll go wherever the money is when he's a free agent. if the angels had a policy of paying ppl the absolute minimum they had to, then fine. the extra $20k is weird tho.

it's obviously in trout's best interests to play hard and everything. it just seems like a bit more might be warranted in an effort to keep your best player happy and feeling valued.

mookieproof, Monday, 4 March 2013 17:55 (six years ago) link

http://www.billjamesonline.com/mike_trout_runs__games/

The record that Mike Trout could threaten is the post-WWII tally for runs scored: 152, collected by Jeff Bagwell in 2000. And Trout could be the first player to score more runs than games played since Rickey Henderson accomplished the feat in 1985.

My first bold prediction for 2013? That he does one or the other. Mike Trout with either score 152+ runs in 2013, or he’ll score more runs than games played.

clemenza, Sunday, 17 March 2013 20:03 (six years ago) link

two weeks pass...

jeez, look at the way he rounds first in that second clip. amazing.

your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Friday, 5 April 2013 13:29 (six years ago) link

Bonifacio gif linked in the comments is actually an even crazier looking play.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Friday, 5 April 2013 14:37 (six years ago) link

one month passes...

i posted that in the angels thread the other day :(

it is strange how the advanced metrics have him as a minus fielder so far this year after being a stellar LF last year

k3vin k., Sunday, 2 June 2013 15:11 (six years ago) link

B-R has him -9 runs in the field so far!

k3vin k., Sunday, 2 June 2013 18:01 (six years ago) link

i meant to say OF in the previous post btw, he played left and center iirc

k3vin k., Sunday, 2 June 2013 18:38 (six years ago) link

it is strange how the advanced metrics have him as a minus fielder so far this year after being a stellar LF last year

― k3vin k., Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:11 AM (6 days ago)

An attempt to break this down:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/36800/why-are-trouts-defensive-numbers-so-bad

Conclusion: don't expect it to last.

clemenza, Saturday, 8 June 2013 10:53 (six years ago) link

thanks, i was just about to ask if anything's been written about that!

k3vin k., Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:28 (six years ago) link

two weeks pass...

75mph changeup = line-drive HR to left

playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 23:52 (six years ago) link

four hits today

mookieproof, Thursday, 27 June 2013 20:14 (six years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Noticed that he's almost exactly where he was last year in terms of basic slash stats:

2012 -- .326/.399/.564
2013 -- .320/.399/.560

His HR and SB are down a little, 2B and 3B way up.

clemenza, Friday, 12 July 2013 13:23 (six years ago) link

two weeks pass...

why is there no youtube compilation of mike trout triples?

k3vin k., Sunday, 28 July 2013 11:28 (six years ago) link

4-4 with 2 walks last night, up to .331/.412/.568 and leads fWAR by 0.4 wins

k3vin k., Thursday, 1 August 2013 10:44 (six years ago) link

18 walks in his last 10 games

k3vin k., Tuesday, 6 August 2013 07:39 (six years ago) link

David Cameron @DCameronFG
Through age-21 season, by wRC+, Mike Trout is the best hitter of all time, edging out Foxx and Williams.

David Cameron @DCameronFG
That's just hitting. No baserunning, no fielding, just hitting. Trout has been better than Ted Williams at hitting.

mookieproof, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 18:29 (six years ago) link

seeing him play next week

k3vin k., Thursday, 8 August 2013 00:59 (six years ago) link

I saw him before his rookie year! Batting ninth!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ANA/ANA201107090.shtml

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 August 2013 01:45 (six years ago) link

...

mookieproof, Thursday, 8 August 2013 02:30 (six years ago) link

Two-run homer first time up tonight. If it weren't for that (still weird) -1.4 defensive number, he'd probably be on his way to about a 12.0 WAR for the year.

clemenza, Thursday, 8 August 2013 02:35 (six years ago) link

Angels have to be trying to lock him up for like decade.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 8 August 2013 02:55 (six years ago) link

Two-run homer first time up tonight. If it weren't for that (still weird) -1.4 defensive number, he'd probably be on his way to about a 12.0 WAR for the year.

― clemenza, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 10:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fangraphs is much kinder, but even they have him as a neutral defender rather than a huge minus.

anyway OPS above 1.000 now - .333/.424/.580

k3vin k., Thursday, 8 August 2013 08:25 (six years ago) link

just turned 22 yesterday btw

k3vin k., Thursday, 8 August 2013 08:34 (six years ago) link

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/happy-22nd-birthday-mike-trout-2/

re: mookie's post. look at that list. nothing but inner-circle guys

k3vin k., Thursday, 8 August 2013 08:40 (six years ago) link

I wonder if the guy mistakenly left A-Rod off the list. Baseball Reference has him at 14.3 through age 21, which would safely put him on there. Is there that much difference between the two methods?

Just to be annoyingly nitpicky, I'm not sure I'd call Arky Vaughan inner-circle. On the merits, maybe, although his numbers were mostly compiled in the '30s. In the popular imagination, no. He's just not that famous.

clemenza, Thursday, 8 August 2013 12:43 (six years ago) link

he was one of Nixon's all-time shortstops!

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 August 2013 12:47 (six years ago) link

"Goddamit, Bob, I don't care about the Negro in Chicago or those two guys from Jew York City--give me Arky Vaughan."

clemenza, Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:01 (six years ago) link

the list is sorted by wRC+ - i'm not sure how to calculate that but a-rod's might not have been above vaughn's 131 if you count his first two full seasons plus his assorted call-ups prior to that

k3vin k., Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:02 (six years ago) link

this was a really great read:
http://thelinedrive.com/2012/09/19/the-day-i-pegged-mike-trout/

frogbs, Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:18 (six years ago) link

Not the best time for A-Rod testimonials, but when I was checking his numbers, I'd forgotten he only played 146 games in his sort-of-rookie season. Not nearly as abbreviated as Trout's 2012, but if you give back even 10 of those 16 missing games, he almost surely would have had 400 total bases (379 for the year).

clemenza, Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:27 (six years ago) link

Similar to the Fangraphs piece above, but ranked by WAR, so A-Rod's high. The inner-circleness holds until #12, where Vada Pinson shows up. (Pinson's prolonged drift into retirement at age 36 has always fascinated me.)

http://mlb.si.com/2013/08/08/mike-trout-birthday-angels/

clemenza, Friday, 9 August 2013 22:16 (six years ago) link

trout somehow just leapfrogged everyone else and now leads the league in bWAR?

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 13:16 (six years ago) link

hm, looks like he's gone from -1.5 dWAR to -1.1 over the past week. robbing that home run a couple nights ago probably helped

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 13:17 (six years ago) link

Is there a good explanation for the over 3 dWAR swing between last year and this year? Is Trout really not making that many plays this year that your replacement level player would (and that he did last year)?

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 13:35 (six years ago) link

I think the 2.1 dWAR from last year is actually wackier than the minus 1.1 from this year.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 13:38 (six years ago) link

there have been a few articles about it - it basically boils down to the fact that he had like 4 incredible home run robs in like 5 months last year and, until yesterday, had none so far this year. it is pretty suspect that his dWAR numbers are so bad (at least on b-r) given his speed. fangraphs had him as a neutral defender up until a couple days ago

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 13:51 (six years ago) link

So robbing a home run = a 1/4 of a win? That seems more suspect to me than his dWAR #s this year since I thought one win basically boiled down to 10 runs above replacement.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 13:59 (six years ago) link

Actually even more than a 1/4 since that was an explanation for a nearly 4 dWAR swing.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 14:03 (six years ago) link

I love the idea of defensive metrics like WAR but swings like this are a lot harder to understand than their offensive counterparts.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 14:05 (six years ago) link

I've been following Trout and Cabrera on Baseball Reference, and here's something I don't quite understand. I knew, once Trout got hot (and especially with Cabrera missing games), it was only a matter of time before Trout moved to the top of the list. Today seems like an odd day for it to happen, though Yesterday, Cabrera was up 6.2 to 6.1; this morning, it's Trout 6.4, Cabrera 6.2.

Trout had an okay game yesterday: 0-2, but he drew two walks and stole two bases. Cabrera was 2-5 with (as you may have read) a home run--no extra credit for the who and when of the latter, but still. Neither guy made an error. Putouts, assists, or great plays, I don't know.

I know it's all context-driven, but based on that, how did Trout move up three-tenths of a game, and Cabrera only one-tenth? Maybe Baseball Reference is a day behind on their WAR calculations, but I don't think so.

clemenza, Saturday, 10 August 2013 14:48 (six years ago) link

yeah it's puzzling. like i said it looks like trout's gain was on the defensive side, where he went from -1.4 to -1.1 (i think overnight) - but that must be from the robbed home run, i'd have thought

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:28 (six years ago) link

trout's defensive numbers this year are also lower because he's been playing more LF than he did in 2012 so he's working against stricter positional adjustments

J0rdan S., Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:33 (six years ago) link

WAR's positional, right? You're x number of games above the current replacement level at your position, as measured against everybody else playing the same spot? I sometimes wonder if a hidden contributing factor might be--in the case of these two guys--that, as a group, third basemen had a better night last night than center fielders. Sounds bizarre, I know, but I'm trying to understand how Trout makes up ground on Cabrera last night. (If Trout's great catch was the night before, presumably that had already been figured in prior to today's calculations.)

clemenza, Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:43 (six years ago) link

i think that the positional baselines for WAR are fixed and not based on how other players at the same position do on a night-to-night basis

i could be wrong tho

J0rdan S., Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:44 (six years ago) link

the catch wasn't even all that great tbh, but that's all i can think of that would cause that swing

sarge what do you mean by that? he played some LF early in the year, but aren't LFers theoretically less skilled than CFers? if anything on the defensive side that should have helped him?

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:47 (six years ago) link

xp

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:47 (six years ago) link

Okay. I would think they'd adjust the baseline periodically, though--the replacement level for first basemen during the McGwire-Bagwell-Thomas-Palmeiro-McGriff era must have been historically high.

If anybody else can explain how 0-2 with two walks and two stolen bases makes up two-tenths of a game on 2-5 with a home run, please do. (Would the fact that Cabrera's home run tied the game in the 9th inning be worth anything--does WPA figure into WAR?)

clemenza, Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:50 (six years ago) link

"trout's defensive numbers this year are also lower because he's been playing more LF than he did in 2012 so he's working against stricter positional adjustments"

Yeah this makes no sense to me either. If he was 2 wins better than replacement at CF then in theory he'd be way better than a replacement LF not way worse.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:52 (six years ago) link

xp I don't think any WPA stuff is used. I think this is a question you'd have to ask the B-R guy to get an answer.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:52 (six years ago) link

his fielding runs above average hasn't moved on fangraphs for at least a week

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:55 (six years ago) link

"trout's defensive numbers this year are also lower because he's been playing more LF than he did in 2012 so he's working against stricter positional adjustments"

Yeah this makes no sense to me either. If he was 2 wins better than replacement at CF then in theory he'd be way better than a replacement LF not way worse.

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:52 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

defensively yeah but offensively you'd think corner outfielders are more replaceable than center fielders?

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:56 (six years ago) link

And even WPA was used I wouldn't think that Trout would get a bump from it.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:56 (six years ago) link

Okay. I would think they'd adjust the baseline periodically

they do, probably during each offseason. it's not like "oh, every other third baseman in mlb went 0-4 last night so now miguel cabrera's war has shot up"

J0rdan S., Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:56 (six years ago) link

xp yeah I'm talking about just in terms of the defense relative to a replacement LF.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 15:59 (six years ago) link

I notice also that, after months of Gomez (mostly) and Kershaw leading the NL, McCutchen is tied this morning--first time, I think.

clemenza, Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:03 (six years ago) link

LF is the easiest OF position so the positional adjustment is more severe i.e. a good LF is gonna have a lower defensive rating than a good CF because a much higher number of players can play LF well than can play CF well. so even if we assume (for the sake of the example) that trout is playing the exact same quality defense in 2013 as he did in 2012 but his playing time is more slanted towards LF than that good defense in LF in 2013 is gonna count for less than all the good defense in CF in 2012.

J0rdan S., Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:03 (six years ago) link

A cast of characters that includes Raul Ibanez and Chris Carter for example.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:04 (six years ago) link

I think that difference is counted into the ACTUAL positional adjustment for LF (at least in Fangraphs). Either way according to B-R Trout is basically as bad a fielder this year as Raul Ibanez. I just don't see how that's possible.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:06 (six years ago) link

LF is the easiest OF position so the positional adjustment is more severe i.e. a good LF is gonna have a lower defensive rating than a good CF because a much higher number of players can play LF well than can play CF well. so even if we assume (for the sake of the example) that trout is playing the exact same quality defense in 2013 as he did in 2012 but his playing time is more slanted towards LF than that good defense in LF in 2013 is gonna count for less than all the good defense in CF in 2012.

― J0rdan S., Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:03 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok yeah this makes sense

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:06 (six years ago) link

that final "than" should be "then"

J0rdan S., Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:06 (six years ago) link

Also Trout's still played most of his games at CF.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:09 (six years ago) link

We're not talking about all CF in 2012 and all LF in 2013.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:10 (six years ago) link

per fangraphs

2012

LF - 328 innings - 1.5 UZR
CF - 885 innings - 12.0 UZR

2013

LF - 297 innings - 2.5 UZR
CF - 700 innings - -3.1 UZR

so he's playing a bit more in LF and has just been worse in CF

my guess is that he bulked up a bit last offseason and it's hurt his CF defense a bit

J0rdan S., Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:13 (six years ago) link

i mean if you split the difference between the two seasons he still grades out as a plus defensive CF

J0rdan S., Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:14 (six years ago) link

J0rdan always blaming the roids.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:14 (six years ago) link

yeah the defensive stats are always really volatile and you're supposed to have at least 3 years of data for it to mean anything

k3vin k., Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:16 (six years ago) link

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9543335/why-mike-trout-more-valuable-miguel-cabrera-mlb

can someone post this?

k3vin k., Monday, 12 August 2013 15:44 (six years ago) link

he's up to 7.8 fWAR, also seemingly from the defensive side, as his fielding runs above average has gone from -0.5 to +2.1

k3vin k., Monday, 12 August 2013 17:51 (six years ago) link

In like a week haha

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 01:14 (six years ago) link

well literally overnight, but i get the feeling the defensive metrics are updated weekly

k3vin k., Tuesday, 13 August 2013 01:17 (six years ago) link

Yeah BR dWAR hasn't changed.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 11:50 (six years ago) link

when's the last time someone's led his league in both triples and walks? the best i can find is mantle in 1955

k3vin k., Friday, 16 August 2013 16:19 (six years ago) link

Rickey Henderson didn't; never hit more than 7 triples in a season!

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 August 2013 16:47 (six years ago) link

yeah he was my first guess too! i was really surprised at his low triples total

k3vin k., Friday, 16 August 2013 17:09 (six years ago) link

Brett Butler led in both categories, not in the same season.

I'm seeing a lotta fast guys who were known for not walking a ton (Reyes, Lance Johnson, Willie Wilson) as triples leaders.

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 August 2013 17:27 (six years ago) link

Harmon Killebrew, Frank Thomas, and Prince Fielder all led their leagues in walks. Triples, not so many.

clemenza, Friday, 16 August 2013 21:18 (six years ago) link

maybe guys who hit a lot of triples are aggressive in a way that works against walking.

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 August 2013 21:21 (six years ago) link

i would think that the traits of a strong triples hitter would be

1) fast (duh)
2) plays in a pitcher's park (so strong blasts to the alley and line drives into the corner would have more distance to bounce around before the OF can get it back in)
3) high SLG, but more of a XBH guy rather than a HR hitter
4) aggressive baserunner

i'm surprised that ricky henderson never hit more than 7, although i'm not sure about the characteristics of the old A's coliseum, along with the other parks he played in.

Z S, Friday, 16 August 2013 21:29 (six years ago) link

rickey probably stopped at second a lot so he could steal third

k3vin k., Friday, 16 August 2013 21:35 (six years ago) link

^^^actual rickey quote iirc

christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 16 August 2013 21:39 (six years ago) link

"rickey probably stopped at second a lot so he could steal third

― k3vin k., Friday, August 16, 2013 5:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

-rickey henderson

ty based gay dead computer god (zachlyon), Friday, 16 August 2013 23:13 (six years ago) link

^^^actual rickey quote iirc

Z S, Friday, 16 August 2013 23:22 (six years ago) link

A whole page of theories:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1542089

clemenza, Friday, 16 August 2013 23:22 (six years ago) link

robs a home run!

k3vin k., Saturday, 17 August 2013 02:40 (six years ago) link

left the game in the 6th, sore hammy. please be minor

k3vin k., Monday, 19 August 2013 02:42 (six years ago) link

"when's the last time someone's led his league in both triples and walks?"

It's not Pete Rose. I went and checked as I remembered he drew quite a few walks at points in his career. Dude hit some triples though, not too many players hit 5 three-baggers at age 40.

earlnash, Monday, 19 August 2013 03:09 (six years ago) link

caught stealing tonight, rare occurrence

k3vin k., Saturday, 31 August 2013 01:36 (six years ago) link

Big game today: 3-3, double, triple, walk, run.

clemenza, Sunday, 1 September 2013 21:50 (six years ago) link

really infuriating how mlb.com highlights show any run-scoring play but doesn't have (free) video of mike freaking trout legging out a triple

k3vin k., Sunday, 1 September 2013 21:57 (six years ago) link

up to 9.2 fWAR

k3vin k., Monday, 2 September 2013 18:31 (six years ago) link

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/search/?player_id=545361&tagName=Mike%20Trout

ok, the triple's up now

k3vin k., Monday, 2 September 2013 18:37 (six years ago) link

caught stealing AND picked off last night

k3vin k., Friday, 6 September 2013 18:10 (six years ago) link

the bum

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Friday, 6 September 2013 18:33 (six years ago) link

From Cliff Corcoran's MVP round-up today: "The 22-year-old Trout, by the way, is younger than five of the six Rookie of the Year candidates listed below. That's not relevant to this race. It's just amazing."

clemenza, Friday, 6 September 2013 18:54 (six years ago) link

caught stealing AND picked off last night

actually that was all one play -- it's kinda weird how they score it imo

mookieproof, Friday, 6 September 2013 19:00 (six years ago) link

ah ok i did see it was by the catcher this morning - tho last night when i was following the game they only had it scored as a CS, which is why i assumed they were separate

k3vin k., Friday, 6 September 2013 20:55 (six years ago) link

From SweetSpot: Will become the seventh .300/.400/.500 player under the age of 23 ever: Pujols, A-Rod, Kaline, Mantle, Mathews Musial. (I assumed he did it last year, but his OBP was .399.)

clemenza, Saturday, 7 September 2013 13:32 (six years ago) link

pretty good company there

k3vin k., Saturday, 7 September 2013 15:11 (six years ago) link


# Name Team G PA H HR R RBI SB BB% K% ISO BABIP AVG OBP SLG wOBA wRC+ Fld BsR WAR
1 Mike Trout Angels 317 1403 387 58 245 183 85 11.8 % 20.0 % .230 .373 .320 .405 .550 .408 165 22.2 21.7 20.5
2 Ryan Howard Phillies 1178 5018 1176 311 695 963 12 11.7 % 27.9 % .274 .324 .271 .361 .545 .378 130 -23.4 -38.9 20.5

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=1990&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=10155,2154

Andy K, Monday, 9 September 2013 14:49 (six years ago) link

Misaligned, but...

Andy K, Monday, 9 September 2013 14:49 (six years ago) link

He's scored about 30 fewer runs in the same number of games compared to last year, despite a better OBP, and the Angels are on pace to score almost the same number of runs as last year. How is this possible? Is it entirely due to Josh Hamilton hitting behind him and sucking all year?

NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 9 September 2013 16:02 (six years ago) link

he's batting 3rd instead of leadoff, and yeah that too

sing, all ye shitizens of slumerica (k3vin k.), Monday, 9 September 2013 16:38 (six years ago) link

My friend came through with Jays tickets for tomorrow. I will watch his every move closely.

clemenza, Monday, 9 September 2013 19:19 (six years ago) link

see if he does better than when i saw him, 2-3 with a walk

sing, all ye shitizens of slumerica (k3vin k.), Monday, 9 September 2013 19:21 (six years ago) link

Trout had an okay night; only 1-4, but also a walk and two runs scored. He DH-ed, so unfortunately I didn't get to see him field. The Angels' other MT was 5-5, three doubles, a homer, 11 total bases, and five runs scored. Buehrle got hammered.

Came relatively close to a foul ball of Trout's bat--two rows behind us, maybe 15 seats to the left. I said to my friend that such a baseball might be worth something one day, but wondered how you'd ever authenticate that it was Trout who hit it. "I'd authenticate it," he offered.

clemenza, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 02:35 (six years ago) link

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post?id=3190

buster olney on why trout's the best all-around player in the game. anyone who'd like to post the text of the article for us cheapos can go ahead, hint hint

sing, all ye shitizens of slumerica (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 18:35 (six years ago) link

trout now ranks 13th in war in angels history; he has fewer plate appearances than anyone in the top 35

mookieproof, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:13 (six years ago) link

having a fun time googling "mike trout scouting report" and seeing what people thought about him 3, 4, 5 years ago. i was kind of out of the baseball loop at the time

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/awards/player-of-the-year/2011/2612308.html

sing, all ye shitizens of slumerica (k3vin k.), Saturday, 14 September 2013 22:15 (six years ago) link

he was pretty well-regarded -- 2010 midwest league mvp as an 18-year-old, hitting .362/.454/.526 with 45 stolen bases in 81 games, narrowly beaten out for texas league mvp by slippery rock's own matt adams in 2011 -- but, you know, so was brandon wood. the atlantic league is littered with guys who once tore up the california league.

he didn't show this kind of power in the minors, but at 6'2", 230 maybe that was bound to happen.

btw randal grichuk (see op) hit 22 homers in double-a this year, but with a .306 obp.

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 September 2013 01:47 (six years ago) link

http://baseballnewshound.com/?p=66

this is great, look at the comparison at the top

sing, all ye shitizens of slumerica (k3vin k.), Sunday, 15 September 2013 01:53 (six years ago) link

one article i read quoted the scouting director as saying he picked grichuk before trout just to scare the shit out of the area scout who scouted him

sing, all ye shitizens of slumerica (k3vin k.), Sunday, 15 September 2013 01:55 (six years ago) link

anyone know why he's been DHing lately?

he's 5 for his last 28, but has turned into a walking machine

sing, all ye shitizens of slumerica (k3vin k.), Sunday, 15 September 2013 23:19 (six years ago) link

just clocked one about 450 feet to dead center, 2 straight games going yard

druhilla (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 18 September 2013 03:13 (six years ago) link

last night's was farther, holy cow

http://wapc.mlb.com/laa/play/?content_id=30679623&c_id=ana

look at figueroa pointing up after he hits it, lol

druhilla (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 18 September 2013 03:18 (six years ago) link

beast

mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 September 2013 19:45 (six years ago) link

In case you weren't keeping track:

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.ca/2013/09/baseball-reference.html#more

For such a fluid, grab-bag of an achievement, that's a pretty impressive group of players--which makes sense.

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 September 2013 23:16 (six years ago) link

'nother dinger tonight

druhilla (k3vin k.), Thursday, 19 September 2013 02:30 (six years ago) link

Think about the adulation a 21-year-old prospect would get if he put up a .500 OBP in Double-A over a half-season. Think what everyone would say if that prospect could also run, field, and hit for power. Baseball America would release issues with tri-folds in the middle.

This player is doing it in the majors. Not Triple-A. But in the majors. Playing half of his games in a pitcher's park.

http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/9/20/4750774/mike-trout-angels-mvp

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 September 2013 14:20 (six years ago) link

awesome that he's at the top of that distance leaderboard. probably helped a little by playing in such a cavernous park, but still

druhilla (k3vin k.), Friday, 20 September 2013 16:03 (six years ago) link

can't seem to get a hit lately

druhilla (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 24 September 2013 03:08 (six years ago) link

Article really lays out how ridiculous he is. Definitely the greatest position player I've seen in my lifetime and I'm not sure really anyone's even close.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 25 September 2013 14:17 (six years ago) link

jeez, i'm his biggest stan but like, a-rod, bonds, griffey - those guys are at least close

druhilla (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 25 September 2013 14:40 (six years ago) link

Not at 20-21 they weren't. I guess that should be a caveat though.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 25 September 2013 14:43 (six years ago) link

arod's age 20 season is comparable i think

ciderpress, Wednesday, 25 September 2013 21:08 (six years ago) link

age 20 season, adjusted batting runs

1. Mel Ott 5.3 1929
2. Mike Trout 5.2 2012
3. Al Kaline 5.1 1955
4. Alex Rodriguez 5.0 1996
5. Ted Williams 5.0 1939
6. Ty Cobb 5.0 1907
7. Mickey Mantle 4.7 1952
8. Frank Robinson 3.6 1956
9. Rogers Hornsby 3.3 1916
10. Dick Hoblitzell 2.9 1909

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 September 2013 21:22 (six years ago) link

yeah A-Rod at 20/21 was definitely close

that said we dont know what Trout's peak is. if this isn't it the history books are going to be demolished.

frogbs, Wednesday, 25 September 2013 21:28 (six years ago) link

sorry that's batting WINS. Age 21:

1. Mike Trout 6.6 2013
2. Eddie Mathews 5.8 1953
3. Jimmie Foxx 5.6 1929
4. Ted Williams 5.1 1940
5. Ty Cobb 5.1 1908
6. Albert Pujols 4.9 2001
7. Cesar Cedeno 4.7 1972
8. Rogers Hornsby 4.7 1917
9. Denny Lyons 4.7 1887
10. Ken Griffey 4.3 1991

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 September 2013 21:29 (six years ago) link

A-Rod 20 was amazing but still behind Trout. A-Rod 21 was not even in same league.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 25 September 2013 21:46 (six years ago) link

You can see why Leo Durocher was excited about Cedeno in '72.

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 September 2013 23:34 (six years ago) link

Cedeno's arrival was right when I started watching baseball, so I still remember all the (legitimate) hype around him. I saw an Astros-Reds spring training game in '72--came away with one of Lee May's bats.

I know you're talking about position players, but the most awesome 20-year-old in my lifetime was Gooden.

clemenza, Thursday, 26 September 2013 00:41 (six years ago) link

Mike Trout has a higher career WAR (20.8) than Jermaine Dye (20.3), Joe Carter (19.3), Ryan Howard (18.9), & Dave Kingman (17.2).

mookieproof, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 19:34 (six years ago) link

two weeks pass...

“It can be a combination of dirt stains, grass stains, bloodstains — he'll blow out a knee or a butt cheek. He's in the top two or three for most-soiled every night. He's old-school.”
—Angels assistant equipment manager Shane Demmitt, on the daily state of Trout’s uniform.

“The Sistine Chapel.”
—Rays manager Joe Maddon, when asked to define Trout’s ceiling.

johnny crunch, Thursday, 17 October 2013 15:59 (six years ago) link

I wonder if Subway sammiches have made his neck that big.

eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 October 2013 16:01 (six years ago) link

"Blowing out a butt cheek" is a distressing mental image.

cops on horse (WilliamC), Thursday, 17 October 2013 16:21 (six years ago) link

i've been to the sistene chapel the ceiling isn't THAT high

k3vin k., Thursday, 17 October 2013 17:53 (six years ago) link

ugh sistine

k3vin k., Thursday, 17 October 2013 17:54 (six years ago) link

two months pass...

Voted $400 million, didn't give it any thought. If there aren't any bumps in the road before 2018, I have to believe it'll be in that range.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/43039/what-if-willie-mays-were-a-free-agent

clemenza, Thursday, 19 December 2013 03:40 (six years ago) link

13 trade offers for Mike Trout

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22425

eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 December 2013 13:33 (six years ago) link

the Angels should take the sky scrapper.

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 19 December 2013 17:42 (six years ago) link

that first trade is bonkers. there's no way the angels trade the best player in baseball for an unproven PITCHER and a no-offense 3B who just broke his leg

k3vin k., Thursday, 19 December 2013 18:28 (six years ago) link

like machado is good but he's a league average hitter at best and who knows what his defensive range is going to be like now

k3vin k., Thursday, 19 December 2013 18:28 (six years ago) link

he's a shortstop playing third

and he was worth 6.2 WAR

at 21

my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 20 December 2013 01:04 (six years ago) link

almost entirely because of defense, and he just had a devastating lower body injury

k3vin k., Friday, 20 December 2013 01:11 (six years ago) link

i mean i love machado believe me, but obviously the angels laugh and hang up the phone in a second when they get that call

k3vin k., Friday, 20 December 2013 01:12 (six years ago) link

these trade ideas are meant to be insane - you guys realize that, right?!

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 20 December 2013 01:18 (six years ago) link

yeah i realized that as i went further down haha

k3vin k., Friday, 20 December 2013 01:22 (six years ago) link

kk u realize before he came up defense wasn't even considered his strong suit? league average hitting at age 21 is special

my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 20 December 2013 01:30 (six years ago) link

not as special as say mike trout but there's also his defense and kevin gausman, who is a prospect like any other

my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 20 December 2013 01:30 (six years ago) link

tbf i do not know who kevin gausman is, but he's a PITCHING PROSPECT ffs

k3vin k., Friday, 20 December 2013 01:41 (six years ago) link

lol i love the abstract over-exaggeration of tinstaapp being stretched into "there is literally no worth in a starting pitcher who isn't playing major league ball yet", been happening a lot lately

my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 20 December 2013 02:04 (six years ago) link

I think the point is its MIKE TROUT ffs. There is no trade scenario that doesn't get a GM laughed at.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Friday, 20 December 2013 02:47 (six years ago) link

pittsburgh could do it, just send mccutchen, cole, alvarez, sidney crosby, evgeni malkin, mario lemieux, and the steelers franchise to LA

I've Seen rRootage (Will M.), Friday, 20 December 2013 18:28 (six years ago) link

sidney crosby is basically the real life charlie from mighty ducks, this deal is destined to happen

I've Seen rRootage (Will M.), Friday, 20 December 2013 18:29 (six years ago) link

Throw in an autographed Clemente jersey, and maybe.

clemenza, Friday, 20 December 2013 18:53 (six years ago) link

Has Gausman passed Dylan Bundy?

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 21 December 2013 00:09 (six years ago) link

no

mookieproof, Saturday, 21 December 2013 00:51 (six years ago) link

one month passes...

the way baseball salaries are inflating, that wouldn't be that insane

le goon (J0rdan S.), Monday, 24 February 2014 15:30 (six years ago) link

no – but you would expect some kind of discount (or - jesus - *is* that a discount?!)

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 24 February 2014 16:24 (six years ago) link

well maybe not if the deal is backloaded that much. I am a Trout believer, but ya never know.

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 February 2014 16:37 (six years ago) link

fangraphs has him worth $45m and $52m over the past few years... so he's still guaranteed to be vastly underpaid even in the first 3 or 4 years of that extension

even assuming his play comes down he'll prob be getting fair value even at $38m

le goon (J0rdan S.), Monday, 24 February 2014 16:50 (six years ago) link

that said i bet there's no way the parameters of that rumored deal are actually true

i'm sure it will be like most every deal with slight increases of a few million a year over the life of the contract

le goon (J0rdan S.), Monday, 24 February 2014 16:51 (six years ago) link

the angels aren't really getting a discount but then again trout is an unprecedented player

i guess they're giving themselves some security against him putting up another 10 WAR season and rightfully demanding like $250 million

le goon (J0rdan S.), Monday, 24 February 2014 16:52 (six years ago) link

it's just money tbf, the angels have plenty of it iirc

k3vin k., Monday, 24 February 2014 16:57 (six years ago) link

the angels aren't really getting a discount but then again trout is an unprecedented player

well, there's still A-Rod...

frogbs, Monday, 24 February 2014 17:05 (six years ago) link

yeah but what part of makes trout unprecedented is not just his skill level but his place in baseball history, in this case meaning a time in which players frequently sell arbitration and FA years many years in advance

there's just no real example to go off with trout. it's uncharted waters (lol). we basically have freddie freeman, clayton kershaw aaand maybe ryan braun as examples but that's really trying to jam a square peg into a round hole

le goon (J0rdan S.), Monday, 24 February 2014 17:48 (six years ago) link

that's what i was thinking – this is like the Freeman ext except instead of dealing with a good player, this guy is elite.
i think Freddie is a great player and locking him long term was p smart, but i was still surprised at the dollar numbers he secured.

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 24 February 2014 18:07 (six years ago) link

http://mlb.si.com/2014/02/24/mike-trout-what-is-he-really-worth

mookieproof, Monday, 24 February 2014 20:00 (six years ago) link

BP's Daniel Rathman:

"With an average annual value of $36.5 million in the free-agent years, the Angels would be paying Trout to be about a six-win player down the road—a strong bet, considering that he’s been worth 8.3 and 9.6 WARP in his first two big-league seasons. Trout would get $12 million (the bulk of it in the form of a $10 million signing bonus) to play with in 2014, and the Angels wouldn’t face the steepest outlays until Josh Hamilton’s deal expires after the 2017 season. Trout and Albert Pujols would cost owner Arte Moreno a combined $65 million in 2018 and $66 million in 2019, when the former’s hypothetical pact would expire."

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 February 2014 22:28 (six years ago) link

If he signs the extension he would still be a FA at 28 which is more or less the ideal age for getting a long-term megacontract.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 25 February 2014 09:20 (five years ago) link

what the fuck do these people do with any of their money over like 20 million idgi

a commentary on self-absorbed youth culture in the social media age (zachlyon), Wednesday, 26 February 2014 02:22 (five years ago) link

if trout took a like 20/300 deal everyone would be like "wow how shitty for him" but what is 300 million dollars what does that mean

a commentary on self-absorbed youth culture in the social media age (zachlyon), Wednesday, 26 February 2014 02:23 (five years ago) link

respeck, knuckles

i mean i hear u cluckin, but there is that much money in the game now and he probably deserves it more than arte moreno

isn't it amazing that pro sports teams demand public money for their stadiums?

mookieproof, Wednesday, 26 February 2014 03:08 (five years ago) link

i know that at a certain point individual wealth is usually just about competition (a-rod needing to be the highest-paid player lol) i guess i just get annoyed when fans buy into it just as much like it really matters if there's a 3 or a 4 in front of trout's contract

ppl saying things like "he'd be a fool to take a contract now" should probably take a step back for a second. the entire concept of MLB contracts is a bizarre upside-down world and freddy garcia's made $53 million

a commentary on self-absorbed youth culture in the social media age (zachlyon), Wednesday, 26 February 2014 03:27 (five years ago) link

when someone asks me how many millions 1 WAR is worth now i tell them they're capitalist pigs and stab them in the throat

a commentary on self-absorbed youth culture in the social media age (zachlyon), Wednesday, 26 February 2014 03:29 (five years ago) link

you are basically otm

mookieproof, Wednesday, 26 February 2014 03:31 (five years ago) link

i actually feel like if i got $50 million but could have easily have gotten $150 million i would be secretly mad for a while

le goon (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 26 February 2014 06:13 (five years ago) link

i mean i hear u cluckin, but there is that much money in the game now and he probably deserves it more than arte moreno

^^ this, it's an $8B pie and you have to divide it up somehow. If you figure that the players are entitled to half of baseball's income and Mike Trout is the best of the 700-odd players in that pool, then $200M or more is a fair number. When you think about it like an hourly or per game wage as if it was a regular job then it never seems to make sense.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 26 February 2014 09:15 (five years ago) link

do the players get half of baseball's income?

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 26 February 2014 16:10 (five years ago) link

trout will make $1m this season

mookieproof, Wednesday, 26 February 2014 17:06 (five years ago) link

poor bb

a commentary on self-absorbed youth culture in the social media age (zachlyon), Thursday, 27 February 2014 01:15 (five years ago) link

he is the Neck of Baseball

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 27 February 2014 01:21 (five years ago) link

http://instagram.com/p/jM9MVyJtbl/

wow

k3vin k., Thursday, 27 February 2014 18:26 (five years ago) link

pfft i could do that if i was mike trout

5 rbi today #countingstats

mookieproof, Friday, 28 February 2014 21:29 (five years ago) link

two weeks pass...

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/45119/oh-my-mike-trout-may-get-even-better

Hopefully not Alfredo Griffin aggressive. I'm sure he's thought this through.

clemenza, Monday, 17 March 2014 03:14 (five years ago) link

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi8ANYaCQAAlmvU.png

mookieproof, Monday, 17 March 2014 15:04 (five years ago) link

really, what are the odds he can improve via ANY change in approach?

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 17 March 2014 17:31 (five years ago) link

well look the guy didn't even crack 100 ribbies and 27 dingers is nothing special. those are raul ibanez numbers. nice walk total, but hey where's the clutch? #teamjeter

christmas candy bar (al leong), Monday, 17 March 2014 17:35 (five years ago) link

I didn't watch too many angels games but I assume trout had a shitload of games batting behind such on base threats as eric aybar and alberto callaspo

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 17 March 2014 18:16 (five years ago) link

Dave Fleming's predictions--you'll all love the #1.

http://www.billjamesonline.com/50_fearless_forecasts_2014/

clemenza, Wednesday, 19 March 2014 23:24 (five years ago) link

It's been a good long while since someone really had a shot at hitting .400. This guy is so good, if Trout made a run at .400 I think the media will go nuts.

earlnash, Wednesday, 19 March 2014 23:54 (five years ago) link

lol come on trout is 90 out of 140 in K%, improving by 2 points isn't really close to enough

(in 1941 williams had a 4.5 K%, hit more homers than trout probably will and had about a similar BABIP)

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 20 March 2014 00:12 (five years ago) link

MLB Play Index ‏@BRefPlayIndex 3h
#Angels Manager Mike Scioscia had 307 strikeouts in 1,441 career games as a player; #Angels MVP Mike Trout has 305 strikeouts in 336 games.

mookieproof, Thursday, 20 March 2014 00:20 (five years ago) link

izzat supposed to be a counterpoint or a fun fact

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 20 March 2014 00:46 (five years ago) link

fun fact

mookieproof, Thursday, 20 March 2014 01:42 (five years ago) link

the game done changed

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 25 March 2014 13:42 (five years ago) link

six years, $144.5m?

mookieproof, Saturday, 29 March 2014 02:45 (five years ago) link

free agent at 28 ffs

mookieproof, Saturday, 29 March 2014 02:46 (five years ago) link

Yet another transaction made strictly for David Cameron's amusement.

"If he's happy, good for him."

BIG if, amirite?

Andy K, Saturday, 29 March 2014 04:42 (five years ago) link

just read about this, it had to be done. i know he is a happy guy.

Bee OK, Saturday, 29 March 2014 04:51 (five years ago) link

Seems like a great deal for him - he leaves ~$30mn on the table for three free agent years while guaranteeing that if something catastrophic happens he's set, and will still be in position for 12 years/$400mn (or whatever inconceivable number salary inflation has reached) after that.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 29 March 2014 05:33 (five years ago) link

cameron's a nut tbh

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Saturday, 29 March 2014 06:29 (five years ago) link

@robneyer
Hey let's make a list of the DUMBEST baseball players! Starting with silly Mike Trout and addle-minded Dustin Pedroia!

@robneyer
Also, in addition to not understanding how you CRITICIZE a player for agreeing to be paid $140 million ...

@robneyer
... I don't understand why people so obsessed with who makes what, who makes the most, etc. At this point dollars are practically the same.

@robneyer
also I just learned on Twitter that $140 million does not constitute "a huge payday."

Andy K, Saturday, 29 March 2014 14:05 (five years ago) link

Brian Bannister is on Twitter, btw.

@RealBanny
@DCameronFG He just secured more money than many HOF players made in their entire careers combined. The game has changed a lot #perspective

Andy K, Saturday, 29 March 2014 14:09 (five years ago) link

I officially give up trying to weigh these contracts. My first thought on Trout was that, in light of Cabrera, he could have gotten much, much more. (Because really, who can get by on $140 million?) But yes, this frees him up for a zillion dollars when he's 28.

clemenza, Saturday, 29 March 2014 15:13 (five years ago) link

This young man will just have to learn how to save up to get something really nice for himself.

Andy K, Saturday, 29 March 2014 16:48 (five years ago) link

neyer otm

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Saturday, 29 March 2014 17:04 (five years ago) link

i really don't think people should write these sorts of dumb columns about how much money he COULD make unless they were gonna talk about all the ways to uniquely use that money, like "buy a koch brother" or "how many islands"

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Saturday, 29 March 2014 17:05 (five years ago) link

"at this point, only trout's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren are set for life. but if he just held out a bit longer, his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren and maybe even his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren could've also been set for life"

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Saturday, 29 March 2014 17:07 (five years ago) link

"how will trout's legacy last centuries into the nuclear wasteland human extinction era if he takes his payday now? his money won't even have a chance to lose all symbolic value!"

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Saturday, 29 March 2014 17:09 (five years ago) link

lol otm

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.), Saturday, 29 March 2014 17:49 (five years ago) link

i think it's fair to wonder as an exercise how much money trout could have gotten... it's not like it's something that agents and players don't think about?

le goon (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 29 March 2014 18:06 (five years ago) link

i don't think "mike trout just signed for less money than jacoby ellsbury" is a facile point

le goon (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 29 March 2014 18:11 (five years ago) link

Normally I don't care about the money end at all, but with Trout and Cabrera signing a couple of days apart--it's almost like a private joke they worked out between themselves--comparisons are inevitable.

clemenza, Saturday, 29 March 2014 18:30 (five years ago) link

Congrats to the Angels, by the way.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 29 March 2014 22:24 (five years ago) link

Less money than Ellsbury isn't a good comparison, nor is Cabrera's contract. Arbitration wasn't going to pay him $20mn per.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Sunday, 30 March 2014 07:54 (five years ago) link

well fortunately i got mlb.tv to work just in time for that opening blast

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 02:30 (five years ago) link

mmm, precious rbis

mookieproof, Tuesday, 1 April 2014 02:33 (five years ago) link

Footage of him running around the stadium with his younger cousins before the contract signing press conference was kind of adorable

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 02:52 (five years ago) link

TROUT

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 04:16 (five years ago) link

did he do something else or are you just now responding to the HR please keep things up to date in the mike trout thread

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 04:31 (five years ago) link

don't think so, just got home and saw he homered in his first AB

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 04:32 (five years ago) link

HE JSUT GOT A SINGLE HE IS SO GOOD

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 04:35 (five years ago) link

Dave Cameron: I think making life decisions that involve intentionally taking less money than possible are generally as a positive character trait. On the other hand, one could argue that Trout had some responsibility to help elevate the pay scale for those that come after him. It depends on your perspective.

what

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Wednesday, 2 April 2014 23:18 (five years ago) link

Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in MLB 14: The Show as soon as I get home.

Andy K, Wednesday, 2 April 2014 23:33 (five years ago) link

dave cameron needs to get out of his parents' basement, etc. etc.

mookieproof, Wednesday, 2 April 2014 23:41 (five years ago) link

dave cameron is a good baseball writer, just for the record

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 April 2014 17:42 (five years ago) link

trout has a responsibility to the future once in a generation talents who FUCKING SHATTER all arb records that came before them. ok thanks comrade dave cameron.

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 3 April 2014 17:45 (five years ago) link

How is MBT: TS 14?

Bringing the mosh (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 3 April 2014 17:49 (five years ago) link

i am bored so i just clocked trout's time around the bases on his triple last night, from contact until he slid into third, and got 11.6. that's really fast, right?

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 April 2014 18:18 (five years ago) link

very sad MLB TS 14 for PS4 doesn't come out for another month, I won't be able to rig a bullshit trade between the Angels and Giants for Trout for 27 more days.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 3 April 2014 19:14 (five years ago) link

that dave cameron point is weird, i don't think he believes that

dave cameron is also the best baseball writer on the planet

le goon (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 3 April 2014 21:55 (five years ago) link

he's alright, he is just really weird about money things and gets totally anchored down by fangraphs' trademarks, ie using fWAR as an unquestioned be-all end-all thing that never really requires any further analysis beyond the x.x figure. which isn't surprising, he's gotta support the company product, but it's annoying. and in his chats he comes off as possibly the most humorless and irritable human being in the world (and every answer essentially boils down to "just look at the fWAR figure/look at what ZiPS projects the fWAR figure to be")

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 3 April 2014 23:00 (five years ago) link

that said, this fangraphs article is a fun read that will try to convince you that mike trout will either die horribly or end up as one of the 5 greatest hitters of all time. amazing thing is it doesn't even begin to consider position/defense/baserunning, just pure offense.

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 3 April 2014 23:01 (five years ago) link

you're referring to the one that deals in cumulative standard deviations, right? yeah that line near the end where he (not dave cameron, it was another writer) was like "remember, trout could die in a plane crash tomorrow" or something to that effect was like...ok man you don't really need to cover ALL the bases

surfbort memes get played out, totally (k3vin k.), Friday, 4 April 2014 02:36 (five years ago) link

Cameron got tot ridiculed by a speaker at a SABR convention a few years ago

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 4 April 2014 03:02 (five years ago) link

to be fair he had to mention "tragedy" cause conigliaro came up as an obvious comp

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Friday, 4 April 2014 03:11 (five years ago) link

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/trout_zps8d9134c7.jpg

I was more of an APBA guy myself.

clemenza, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 23:10 (five years ago) link

dude continues to hit really long home runs

k3vin k., Wednesday, 16 April 2014 19:08 (five years ago) link

@Trouty20
Go see my boy @MarlonWayans hilarious movie #ahauntedhouse2 in theaters TONIGHT!!! ahauntedhouse2film.com/easter

welp

mookieproof, Thursday, 17 April 2014 23:26 (five years ago) link

You found his one weakness.

clemenza, Friday, 18 April 2014 00:42 (five years ago) link

K'd 3x by Scherzer

Andy K, Sunday, 20 April 2014 00:48 (five years ago) link

4 Ks in the game, first time

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 20 April 2014 05:19 (five years ago) link

seems like he either mashes the ball or whiffs this year. actually include the last month of last year too iirc

k3vin k., Sunday, 20 April 2014 15:12 (five years ago) link

'nother hat trick tonight

k3vin k., Wednesday, 23 April 2014 02:59 (five years ago) link

He made a point of saying he was going to be more aggressive before the season, so maybe 150 Ks a year will be normal for him now. Everything else seems in order, although you would think it'd be harder to keep his average up in the .325 range the more he strikes out.

clemenza, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 03:31 (five years ago) link

he's charging toward a 30% strikeout rate...with pujols going gangbusters, he's not going to walk like he did last year. eventually this is going to be a problem

k3vin k., Wednesday, 23 April 2014 18:03 (five years ago) link

it's been like 3 games

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 24 April 2014 00:23 (five years ago) link

his K rate was >23% the last 2 months of last season too. it's a real trend

k3vin k., Thursday, 24 April 2014 01:26 (five years ago) link

bring it up again when he isn't leading the league in WAR

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 24 April 2014 01:27 (five years ago) link

I'M JUST SAYING

k3vin k., Thursday, 24 April 2014 01:38 (five years ago) link

k3vin k0uzmanoff u jus jealous dog

Neckbread (Will M.), Thursday, 24 April 2014 02:05 (five years ago) link

I enjoy eating one of these while watching an Angels game

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg2BUBqCIAE-VOW.jpg:medium

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 30 April 2014 16:26 (five years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/wva9wnI.gif

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 30 April 2014 18:26 (five years ago) link

btw further research reveals that the game of 7/9/11 I attended (box above) in Anaheim was his 2nd MLB game; saw his first career hit.

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 30 April 2014 18:33 (five years ago) link

i'm only posting this because i'm superstitious and every time i express concern he breaks out, so: he hasn't had a good game in over 2 weeks

k3vin k., Wednesday, 14 May 2014 03:09 (five years ago) link

triple high off the wall; good work

mookieproof, Wednesday, 14 May 2014 19:35 (five years ago) link

first walk off game winner tonight (3 run shot)

Spottie, Friday, 16 May 2014 05:57 (five years ago) link

two weeks pass...

12-game hitting streak (slugging over .600 now):

.388/.475/.816, 4 HR, 13 R, 16 RBI.

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 03:37 (five years ago) link

yeah the guy doesn't really hit singles anymore

k3vin k., Wednesday, 18 June 2014 03:43 (five years ago) link

he hates resl baseball

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 04:05 (five years ago) link

*real*

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 04:06 (five years ago) link

his isolated power is .299 now

k3vin k., Wednesday, 18 June 2014 04:17 (five years ago) link

can't even hit .300 send him down

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 05:09 (five years ago) link

I threw those stats together in a hurry last night--think I shortchanged him one HR (didn't realize he hit two last night). His slugging average is probably closer to .850 through the streak.

Kevin was onto something earlier in the year: the strikeouts were clearly hurting him. He's only struck out six times in 49 AB the past 12 games. Maybe that's tautological, I don't know.

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 12:09 (five years ago) link

.387/.467/.747 in his last 20 games

k3vin k., Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:34 (five years ago) link

that second HR was mighty impressive last night. i'm surprised he made contact at all.

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:44 (five years ago) link

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-16-at-1.01.24-PM.png

trout is actually hitless this year on balls in the upper third of the zone

k3vin k., Wednesday, 18 June 2014 17:01 (five years ago) link

If it were him against me, I'd definitely bring the high heat. Wouldn't touch me.

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 17:10 (five years ago) link

love that this is off jason vargas

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/0/v34086831/laakc-trout-blasts-solo-home-run-in-the-1st-inning

johnny crunch, Saturday, 28 June 2014 01:37 (five years ago) link

Mike Trout's home run tonight was calculated at 489 (!!) feet. That's the longest HR hit in MLB this season. (via @ESPNStatsInfo)
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 14m
Mike Trout's 489-foot HR is the longest by an AL player since ESPN began tracking home runs (2006).
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
Adnan Virk, ESPN ‏@adnanESPN 14m
Mike Trout hits 489 foot HR, longest by an AL player in 8 years
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
Steve Duncan ‏@steveduncan2013 16m
Angels' Mike Trout hit HR measured at 489 feet - longest ever at KC's Kauffman Stadium - in 1st inning (ESPN) http://ift.tt/1mnYyyM
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

johnny crunch, Saturday, 28 June 2014 01:38 (five years ago) link

holy shit

k3vin k., Saturday, 28 June 2014 02:25 (five years ago) link

@msimonespn
Mike Trout has 5 HR on pitches thrown below the knees in 2014. No one else has more than 2. pic.twitter.com/TmxzXYv0Wq

Andy K, Saturday, 5 July 2014 14:11 (five years ago) link

was disappointed he DH'd last night... then he got thrown out at third to end the inning, down 1-0!

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 15:25 (five years ago) link

Just scored from first on a single.

Andy K, Thursday, 24 July 2014 02:25 (five years ago) link

lol it was a foot away from being a homer, only a single because pujols is as slow as pujols and markakis's arm has a reputation

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 24 July 2014 02:30 (five years ago) link

Oh.

Andy K, Thursday, 24 July 2014 02:36 (five years ago) link

in July:

.270 /.336 /.540

man, he sucks

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 18:02 (five years ago) link

Can't say I expected to see Jack Perconte in the top ten here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/stolen_base_perc_career.shtml

Andy K, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 18:24 (five years ago) link

Twenty-three facts on his 23rd birthday:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/for-mike-trouts-23rd-birthday-23-superstar-facts?ymd=20140806&content_id=88237504&vkey=news_mlb

22. Trout is one of just four players to hit at least .320 with 50-plus home runs and 200-plus runs scored over his first two big league seasons. Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams and teammate Albert Pujols round out that group.

clemenza, Thursday, 7 August 2014 14:17 (five years ago) link

god 23 already? he's totally boring now

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 7 August 2014 17:17 (five years ago) link

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=200&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=20%2cd

weird how his defensive stats just keep getting worse and worse. FG has him as almost the worst regular center fielder, non-kemp division

k3vin k., Monday, 11 August 2014 14:38 (five years ago) link

was not expecting that. kinda feel its a sort of aberration, no?

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Monday, 11 August 2014 14:40 (five years ago) link

in straight-up CF counting UZR he's 116 out of 123. Cutch is second to last.

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Monday, 11 August 2014 17:22 (five years ago) link

skeptical as always of advanced defensive stats, particularly for one season, but both systems had him crashing hard back down to earth last year too. plus his base running has definitely regressed, so maybe there is an issue

k3vin k., Monday, 11 August 2014 17:35 (five years ago) link

although you wonder how much his stolen bases in particular have taken a hit due to the confidence he has in the hitters behind him. still, if he steals at 90% he should be going a lot more

k3vin k., Monday, 11 August 2014 17:37 (five years ago) link

he's huge, he's like an elephant crammed into a human body, i think he's just destined to be one of those great hitters who had nice defensive and baserunning stats early on and then stopped

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Monday, 11 August 2014 17:39 (five years ago) link

yeah i mean i figured that would happen in 5-7 years because of his body type, but he just turned 23 and he's always been huge

k3vin k., Monday, 11 August 2014 17:41 (five years ago) link

mega-slumping right now. .223/.305/.420 since the ASB

k3vin k., Sunday, 17 August 2014 16:04 (five years ago) link

by fWAR he's been worth -0.5WAR over the past couple of weeks

k3vin k., Sunday, 17 August 2014 16:05 (five years ago) link

rumors swirling they're gonna DFA him

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Sunday, 17 August 2014 16:30 (five years ago) link

the angels are still doing very well, which is the important thing I guess.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 17 August 2014 20:02 (five years ago) link

If I had to vote for MVP today, I'd go with Trout. Felix looked like a possibility two or three weeks ago, but his last two starts have been somewhat shaky. Donaldson and Gordon...that's my limitation; I'm much more confident evaluating players offensively than defensively, and the case for Donaldson or Gordon is very defense-dependent. That's today--obviously, Trout has it within him to run away with the award in September.

Having said that, this Posnanski piece gets at something I've been thinking about recently as Trout bounces between first and second on Baseball Reference's WAR list: if Donaldson or someone else ends up first, what kind of debate might come out of that?

http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/talking-about-the-v-in-mvp-again/#more-2294

clemenza, Saturday, 30 August 2014 00:52 (five years ago) link

if you only care about hitting (as has been proven in recent years), abreu has a strong case

mookieproof, Saturday, 30 August 2014 02:50 (five years ago) link

like that joe pos post

there was a post on fangraphs today looking deeper into Gordon's defensive numbers and the conclusion was basically that he's the exact same defensive player he's always been, but the crop of left fielders is so bad this year that the UZR baseline has shifted way down, making him look elite by comparison, when he's merely very good. i feel pretty ok not considering a legit MVP case

k3vin k., Saturday, 30 August 2014 03:54 (five years ago) link

two weeks pass...

If he didn't have MVP clinched already, he does now. He's trailing Trout Mask Replica in ILX threads 13-2, however.

clemenza, Sunday, 14 September 2014 08:04 (five years ago) link

In case you missed it from last night:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/27/video-mike-trout-makes-insane-no-look-leaping-catch/

clemenza, Saturday, 27 September 2014 20:14 (five years ago) link

two months pass...

@keithlaw
Let's get him fewer at bats! #smrtbaseball “@Alden_Gonzalez: Mike Scioscia looking at the possibility of Trout batting third next year..."

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 22:31 (five years ago) link

one month passes...

kinda interesting article here: http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/balls-in-play-expected-homers-leaderboard/

it calculates expected home runs in 2014, based on batted ball distance/angles, and then compares them to actual home runs.

it finds that mike trout was the unluckiest in baseball, with only 36 HRs in 2014 as compared to the 43 that would be expected based on his contact %, outfield flyball %, etc.

Mike Trout. he's just so unlucky

♪♫_\o/_♫♪ (Karl Malone), Monday, 12 January 2015 22:41 (five years ago) link

two months pass...

more of the same to start the new season: a dinger and a golden sombrero in his first game

k3vin k., Tuesday, 7 April 2015 03:57 (four years ago) link

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2015_04_06_anamlb_seamlb_1&mode=video

semi-robbed one, too

k3vin k., Tuesday, 7 April 2015 04:05 (four years ago) link

I thought the golden sombrero was 0-4 4K?

How Butch, I mean (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 7 April 2015 04:45 (four years ago) link

whoops i thought it was 3Ks, it's 4

k3vin k., Tuesday, 7 April 2015 11:48 (four years ago) link

HOUSTON -- Mike Trout hit the 100th homer of his career on Friday, lofting a fly ball over the left-field fence at Minute Maid Park to become the youngest player with 100 home runs and 100 stolen bases.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 18 April 2015 02:48 (four years ago) link

he's having a really great start

k3vin k., Saturday, 18 April 2015 03:10 (four years ago) link

to his career

Karl Malone, Saturday, 18 April 2015 03:56 (four years ago) link

arguably

Karl Malone, Saturday, 18 April 2015 03:56 (four years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Ben Lindbergh on the career of Jeff "Dad" Trout

http://grantland.com/features/2015-mlb-jeff-trout-mike-trout-father/

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 15 May 2015 14:33 (four years ago) link

Sure to be a contentious issue in 2016:

http://www.nj.com/phillies/index.ssf/2015/05/president_barack_obama_petitioned_to_create_mike_t.html

clemenza, Saturday, 16 May 2015 14:30 (four years ago) link

that headline really makes it sound like obama created the petition!

Karl Malone, Saturday, 16 May 2015 14:31 (four years ago) link

I read it exactly the same as you did ("Wow, is he ever going to catch flak here for being a little distracted...").

clemenza, Saturday, 16 May 2015 16:05 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

He's brought down his strikeouts close to where they were his first couple of years, so maybe last year was a blip.

2012 - 21.8%
2013 - 19.0%
2014 - 26.1%
2015 - 22.8%

Passed .300/.400/.600 last night.

clemenza, Thursday, 9 July 2015 15:05 (four years ago) link

Two more HR tonight.

clemenza, Saturday, 11 July 2015 04:46 (four years ago) link

I suspect Biggio may find his name on the internet a lot for the next 24 hours.

He was asked some questions on Twitter Friday as part of MLB's 'HOF Lounge,' including one from a person who asked which current player reminds him the most of himself. "Mike Trout. He's got a little more power, but the styles are similar as far as speed, power."

He really was a great player for four or five years...

clemenza, Saturday, 25 July 2015 01:39 (four years ago) link

damn

nomar, Sunday, 26 July 2015 22:06 (four years ago) link

Just a slightly thicker neck, too!

Andy K, Sunday, 26 July 2015 23:52 (four years ago) link

Biggio's career-high SLG was less than .050 Trout's current career SLG.

Andy K, Sunday, 26 July 2015 23:59 (four years ago) link

Biggio's Similarity Score list:

Robin Yount (836) *
Derek Jeter (825)
Joe Morgan (779) *
Paul Molitor (778) *
Roberto Alomar (773) *
Cal Ripken (761) *
Johnny Damon (760)
Brooks Robinson (739) *
Lou Whitaker (739)
George Brett (735) *

Pretty fantastic list--eight inarguable HOF'ers, one guy (Whittaker) who most people feel should be in, and Damon, who was a fine player. Trout's way off--maybe sort of, if you ignore power, which would be ignoring a lot.

Actually, with 836 being the highest score, Biggio was relatively unique.

clemenza, Monday, 27 July 2015 00:39 (four years ago) link

trout is on pace to surpass biggio's WAR before turning 28

mookieproof, Monday, 27 July 2015 03:36 (four years ago) link

another monster game tonight. 4-4 with 2 HR and a walk

usic ally (k3vin k.), Monday, 27 July 2015 05:31 (four years ago) link

Obviously, looked at overall, it's an absurd comparison. But in trying to figure out what Biggio might have been thinking, here's what I come up with. You've got to jump through a few hoops.

I assume he's thinking of himself during his prime--not his first few years as a catcher, and definitely not his last few barely hanging on. If you limit the comparison to Biggio's '94-98 prime, and compare his pro-rated numbers (per/162 games) to Trout's pro-rated over his career, there are a few similarities.

BA: .308 (B)/.306 (T)
OBP: .404 (B)/.396 (T)
Runs: 130 (B)/122 (T)
2B/3B: 41/5 (B)/36/7 (T)
BB: 80 (B)/87 (T)
SB/CS: 43/9 (B)/31/5 (T)

I'm sure he's thinking good contact, takes walks, extra-base power, steals bases, scores runs. You just have to conveniently ignore the huge HR difference (35-19), the era that Biggio played in, and all those other years when Biggio wasn't nearly as good. If he cherry-picked a different set of numbers, he could probably make a case that he was a lot like Harmon Killebrew.

clemenza, Monday, 27 July 2015 05:34 (four years ago) link

I'm sure he's just thinking 'good hustle'.

Van Horn Street, Monday, 27 July 2015 19:36 (four years ago) link

6.8 WAR already, according to BBR

nomar, Monday, 27 July 2015 23:13 (four years ago) link

a sabr-inclined yankee fan just asked me 'is mike trout's career floor now mickey mantle?'

i said 'could be, but what if harper's better?'

mookieproof, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 01:28 (four years ago) link

they're both so young that picking one or the other seems foolish, but i'd lean trout

usic ally (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 01:50 (four years ago) link

Mike Trout is younger than 23 of the 25 players on the Angels' Triple-A roster.

mookieproof, Friday, 7 August 2015 22:00 (four years ago) link

Looks like one Syracuse Chief is younger than Bryce Harper.

Andy K, Friday, 7 August 2015 22:23 (four years ago) link

all AAA teams are full of olds though

qualx, Saturday, 8 August 2015 02:49 (four years ago) link

that is true. tbh it points to the angels system totally sucking almost as much as trout being young and insane

mookieproof, Saturday, 8 August 2015 02:54 (four years ago) link

no one has led the league in runs scores 4 straight years; he might. #CountingStats

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 August 2015 18:45 (four years ago) link

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/so-you-want-an-edge-against-mike-trout/

this is pretty amazing. trout has seen about 270 first-pitch curves in his career, depending on whose count you go by. he's swung at one of them

usic ally (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 August 2015 02:25 (four years ago) link

^^^ especially lol because ok, you're ahead 0-1 after a taken first-pitch curve; for some reason he's now even better

mookieproof, Friday, 28 August 2015 17:43 (four years ago) link

yeah that makes NO sense lol

usic ally (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 August 2015 18:27 (four years ago) link

i still love this guy btw but it's kind of lame how he's turned into more or less a slugger who's average-to-slghtly-above-average at everything else

usic ally (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 August 2015 18:28 (four years ago) link

he's still #4 in WAR (#3 if you dont count greinke) behind goldschmidt and harper, but i m/l agree

wouldnt be surprised if donaldson passes him by that metric before season's end and def think donaldson is the AL MVP favorite

slothroprhymes, Friday, 28 August 2015 18:57 (four years ago) link

oh i mean he's more or less the best hitter in the league, so he makes up for it, but the baserunning and defense highlights are a lot rarer these days so he's just a little less fun to watch

usic ally (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 August 2015 19:15 (four years ago) link

yeah i havent gone out of my way to watch an angels game in a while, which i used to do for his sake the last 2 years all the time - last one i saw was the recent 15-3 thrashing by the blue jays in which he went 0 for 3 and made exactly one catch, not an especially great one

slothroprhymes, Friday, 28 August 2015 19:37 (four years ago) link

It's definitely making the Harper and Trout comparisons a lot less one-sided since they're basically the same-ish player these days.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 August 2015 19:39 (four years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Two HR in Aug/Sept! Also:

Aug: .218/.352/.337
Sept: .242/.395/.455

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 13 September 2015 10:19 (four years ago) link

two bombs tonight, Angels about to move 2.5 games out from a WC berth. "Recency bias" might get him that MVP after all.

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 September 2015 03:26 (four years ago) link

also "being really good"

qualx, Friday, 18 September 2015 03:51 (four years ago) link

very troutian TTO game tonight -- 1 K, 2 HR, 3 BB

usic ally (k3vin k.), Friday, 18 September 2015 04:02 (four years ago) link

https://vine.co/v/expH5iXrOWJ

mookieproof, Sunday, 27 September 2015 02:42 (four years ago) link

niiiiice

usic ally (k3vin k.), Sunday, 27 September 2015 03:21 (four years ago) link

five months pass...
one month passes...

3 hits today, still just at .730 ops. this must be his worst april.

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 20 April 2016 21:31 (three years ago) link

he'll be fine.

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 April 2016 21:35 (three years ago) link

i'm sure he will.

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 20 April 2016 21:36 (three years ago) link

bat starting to show some signs of life

k3vin k., Friday, 22 April 2016 03:36 (three years ago) link

I don't understand Trout's swing. It feels like it's always the exact same, like he can bend the direction of the pitch to this will and he will just launch it. Down and away, in the middle, up, he will just hit the same way. It's fascinating.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 24 April 2016 03:19 (three years ago) link

three weeks pass...

This must be a joke, right?

http://sportsmockery.com/2016/05/source-indicates-cubs-working-on-blockbuster-trade-for-former-mvp/

clemenza, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 15:59 (three years ago) link

Not sure whether I should be taking the bait from sportsmockery.com.

clemenza, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:00 (three years ago) link

given the angel's dire outlook for the next few seasons, there have been some calls for them to consider trading trout. that would be a pretty interesting deal

k3vin k., Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:06 (three years ago) link

trout vs kershaw tonight btw

k3vin k., Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:07 (three years ago) link

i have no idea about whether or not the cubs are involved, but in general i'd say it would be a bad move for them, taking lots of low-cost talent across many different positions or organizational levels and converting it into one juggernaut of a player. just seems like it raises the risk, whereas having talent everywhere (like the cubs do right now) lowers risk

I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:10 (three years ago) link

It doesn't really seem like an Epstein move, especially bc the Cubs are doing great without Trout. I don't know the prospects mentioned in that article but Baez, Soler, and Schwarber would not be huge losses (as much as I love Schwarber).

Immediate Follower (NA), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:17 (three years ago) link

also seems like a much bolder move than i would associate with arte moreno/the angels

mookieproof, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 17:01 (three years ago) link

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2016&month=33&season1=2016&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=0&filter=&players=

after yet another round of "is ___ better than trout now" nonsense, trout back in his rightful place

k3vin k., Monday, 23 May 2016 00:21 (three years ago) link

Harper's in a slump average-wise, OBP/Slugging fine. I don't know--I think the two of them are going to jostle back and forth for the next six or seven seasons. (I agree that Trout always seems to operate in the shadow of someone else.)

clemenza, Monday, 23 May 2016 01:25 (three years ago) link

Just did a quick scan for longest streaks leading the league in WAR (pitchers included). Williams (with wartime interruption), Mays, Mantle, and Bonds all had four-year streaks; Trout is leading the league right now, which if he holds on would push his streak to five years; Ruth had an eight-year streak (almost 11).

clemenza, Saturday, 4 June 2016 14:15 (three years ago) link

Should have checked Wagner and Hornsby.

Wagner: 8 years, almost 13 (two third-place finishes mixed in).
Hornsby: 6 years, almost 11 (a 10th and a second mixed in).

Ruth almost hit 11 years--he had a 9th-place finish in there. I guess I'd choose Wagner's streak as the best ever. Can't think of anyone else who would rank with these names.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 June 2016 14:21 (three years ago) link

Don't mind me, just obsessing.

I missed Pujols and Walter Johnson, and messed up with Ruth, Hornsby, and Wagner. Here are the longest streaks:

1. Ruth (6 years)
2. Walter Johnson (5 years)
3. Rogers Hornsby (4 years)
Ted Williams (4 years)
Willie Mays (4 years)
Mickey Mantle (4 years)
Barry Bonds (4 years)
Albert Pujols (4 years)

So Trout has a real chance to match or surpass Ruth and Johnson.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 June 2016 16:02 (three years ago) link

Matt Sussman, BP:

Since the Angels drafted Torii Hunter Jr., also a center fielder, then this means Mike Trout has the chance to push two Toriis Hunter to the corner outfield.

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 June 2016 14:30 (three years ago) link

The plural of Torii is Toriii.

Andy K, Tuesday, 14 June 2016 15:46 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

His OPS just hit 1.000, his best ever. Who will he finish second to in this year's MVP voting, Machado or Bogarts or Altuve?

clemenza, Saturday, 2 July 2016 15:26 (three years ago) link

My irony's a little disingenuous as, yes, I was rooting for Cabrera in 2012. (If I'd been entrusted with an actual vote, not sure how I would have voted...head vs. heart.) But it does seem clear that, like Mays, he's going to pile up a bunch of second-place MVP finishes to whoever the year's big story is.

clemenza, Saturday, 2 July 2016 15:40 (three years ago) link

12 HOFers he has passed in career WAR... this year

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/07/mike-trout-los-angeles-angels-career-war-hall-of-famers-24-mlb

helpless before THRILLARY (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 7 July 2016 14:13 (three years ago) link

(of course a few of them are dubious members)

helpless before THRILLARY (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 7 July 2016 14:14 (three years ago) link

Fewer dubious ones than I would have expected.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 7 July 2016 18:40 (three years ago) link

becoming more successful in deep counts

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/heres-how-mike-trout-is-evolving/

helpless before THRILLARY (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 July 2016 20:58 (three years ago) link

Great headline:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mike-trouts-teammates-dont-deserve-mike-trout/

clemenza, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 04:52 (three years ago) link

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/columns/story?id=6605429

i love reading his old scouting reports. apparently in HS he played a lot of SS (not a surprise, given his athleticism) and even dabbled with switch-hitting. can't find any video of this, sadly

k3vin k., Monday, 25 July 2016 04:55 (three years ago) link

"I can't tell people what I really think because they think I'm insane," Arkansas manager Bill Mosiello said from behind his desk. "Now, they're probably saying, 'You were right.'"

Scouts send Mosiello texts about Trout all the time. Here's one he got last season, when he managed him at Single-A Cedar Rapids, just a few months after Trout graduated from Millville High outside Philadelphia: Maybe this is what Mickey Mantle looked like at 18.

One said: My only prototype for him is Rickey Henderson.

Another said: I've been doing this 40 years. I've never seen a kid doing what he's doing.

The other night, two American League scouts were swapping information about Texas League players. One of them, who had just pulled into town, asked the other to describe Trout's speed. The other guy didn't say a word. He just got this canary-eating grin on his face and slowly traced the Nos. 8 and 0 in the air with his index finger.

k3vin k., Monday, 25 July 2016 04:55 (three years ago) link

Perhaps, in the interests of balance, we should get this out of the way immediately: Trout is not the perfect baseball-playing machine. He's a mediocre base-stealer for his speed, his arm isn't a weapon and some doubt he'll hit the ball with enough lift to be a big-time slugger in the majors. When he hits home runs, they tend to be rising line drives, more like the trajectory of a Ryan Braun home run than a Prince Fielder blast. He takes too many first-pitch strikes for some people's tastes, often hitting behind in the count.

nomar, Monday, 25 July 2016 04:59 (three years ago) link

on the way back to the dugout, he avoids eye contact. he sometimes reaches for his glove between innings and makes an imperfect connection with it. his older friend him that his dad died and he froze up. his next day he told him he was sorry but the mood had changed. his speed from home to 1B on routine ground balls to 3B declined significantly between his rookie and 4th seasons. he accidentally ran into the doorway on his way out of the shower. his WAR/PA rolling 20-game average rose and smoothed back down. his bloodied dental floss didn't fly entirely into the trash can. his z-swing % rose from 55.6 to 59.% from 2015 to 2016.

I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Monday, 25 July 2016 05:31 (three years ago) link

his fart butt farted butt fart

I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Monday, 25 July 2016 06:02 (three years ago) link

trout cycle watch: HR and a triple through 3 innings

25 today. with 160 homers, 130 stolen bases and 45 WAR

mookieproof, Sunday, 7 August 2016 19:04 (three years ago) link

0-3 with 3 Ks. 25 year old mike trout kind of sucks

niiiice. he had a nice play going back to the wall last night too

Yeah, and hit a 3-run homer off Felix the other night. As an M's fan it's nice for once to see him do cool shit and not wipe out their barely visible playoff hopes.

JoeStork, Monday, 8 August 2016 03:23 (three years ago) link

lou brock played 18 seasons, had 3023 hits, stole 938 bases

trout has passed him in WAR

mookieproof, Monday, 8 August 2016 19:41 (three years ago) link

You're going to wear yourself out making note of every guy he passes in WAR.

clemenza, Monday, 8 August 2016 21:40 (three years ago) link

but do be sure to let me know when he catches current surname trout war leader dizzy trout (50.6 fWAR)

a simba man (Will M.), Monday, 8 August 2016 21:42 (three years ago) link

Most WAR since 2001:

1 Albert Pujols
2 Alex Rodriguez
3 Adrian Beltre
4 Miguel Cabrera
5 Carlos Beltran
6 Chase Utley
7 Ichiro Suzuki
8 Barry Bonds
9 Lance Berkman
10 David Wright
11 Chipper Jones
12 Matt Holliday
13 Scott Rolen
14 Jimmy Rollins
15 Derek Jeter
16 David Ortiz
17 Evan Longoria
18 Robinson Cano
19 Joe Mauer
20 Mike Trout

frogbs, Wednesday, 17 August 2016 19:47 (three years ago) link

Obviously, position players. Sabathia, Greinke, Kershaw, Felix, Hamels, and Verlander would be on a pitchers-included list if you use Baseball Reference. (Not meant as a slight to Trout.)

clemenza, Wednesday, 17 August 2016 20:21 (three years ago) link

My takeaway from that list: Bonds retired ten years ago and he's still 8th???

NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 18 August 2016 08:17 (three years ago) link

really a surprise? those last years were y'know

The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 18 August 2016 11:05 (three years ago) link

yeah whoops I forgot to mention no pitchers

frogbs, Thursday, 18 August 2016 12:13 (three years ago) link

trout is hitting .302/.356/.583 in 104 PAs that have reached 0-2 this season

MLB is collectively hitting .150/.158/.222 in those situations

mookieproof, Thursday, 25 August 2016 14:54 (three years ago) link

dang dog

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 25 August 2016 15:23 (three years ago) link

yeah he's an insane 2 strike hitter, he has no fear

it's practically boggsian!

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 25 August 2016 16:24 (three years ago) link

They were talking about the AL MVP vote on one of the local call-in shows. Assuming it's a five-way race (Trout, Altuve, Donaldson, Betts, and Machado--you could add Ortiz, I suppose), I think Trout's going to benefit this time from all the closely-matched candidates on contending teams. Voters who only pick players from contending teams as their #1 will still have Trout third or fourth at worst, maybe even second; he'll get #1 or, at worst, #2 votes from more sabermetric-minded voters. Meanwhile, all the other #1s will be scattered between four or five players.

clemenza, Monday, 29 August 2016 21:18 (three years ago) link

i think if the season ended today the final order would be betts/altuve/donaldson/trout/ortiz/machado

nomar, Monday, 29 August 2016 21:31 (three years ago) link

up to 9.3 WAR

nomar, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 18:24 (three years ago) link

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-case-for-mike-trout-for-american-league-mvp/

they're doing these pieces for all the contenders, but trout really is the only choice. a month ago that wasn't the case tho!

have you ever even read The Drudge Report? Have you gone on Stormfron (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 18:34 (three years ago) link

xpost only 8.2 by fWAR, but still way more than the runner-up (donaldson, 7.0 fWAR)

I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 18:38 (three years ago) link

why does this guy sit so many games now :(

have you ever even read The Drudge Report? Have you gone on Stormfron (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 21:43 (three years ago) link

because the angels are anything but

a simba man (Will M.), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 22:03 (three years ago) link

he's up to 10.0 rWAR now

have you ever even read The Drudge Report? Have you gone on Stormfron (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 15:13 (three years ago) link

i don't know why i chose these particular players, but trout appears to be keeping pace

http://i.imgur.com/OIeBQ6L.png

I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 19:17 (three years ago) link

he's got an outside shot at an 11-win season, at least by baseball-reference. and he probably won't win MVP

k3vin k., Wednesday, 28 September 2016 19:19 (three years ago) link

in more ways than one, this is sort of albert pujols' fault

I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 19:20 (three years ago) link

albert pujols turned into mid-decline phase ryan howard so quickly

nomar, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 19:35 (three years ago) link

pujols has the same WAR (bbr) as Ichiro this season.

nomar, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 19:36 (three years ago) link

and he probably won't win MVP

You think Betts will win, I take it. I'll stick with what I said a month ago (awards thread)--I think Altuve and Donaldson will cut into Betts' support enough that Trout will win. Trout has sabermetric voters to himself; even if that's still a smaller part of the pool than traditional-stat voters, the latter will split its vote.

clemenza, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:07 (three years ago) link

Cameron:

Betts is clearly a fantastic defensive player, and he deserves credit for his all around game, but the reality is that the argument that Betts and Trout have had similar 2016 seasons is an argument for accepting the validity of single-season DRS at face value. We’ve probably done more to advocate for the acceptance of stats like UZR and DRS as anyone, but even I wouldn’t look at Betts’ 2016 defensive numbers and argue that we should accept that he was the best defender in baseball this year, and far more valuable defensively than Trout, who still plays the more demanding defensive position.

And unlike single-season defensive metrics, which continue to have some noise influencing their results, we can very easily identify the offensive difference between Trout and Betts. It wasn’t just “some walks”; it was 86 outs made. And those 86 outs are why, with all due respect to Betts as a great player who had a great season, it isn’t really all that close this year.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-actual-difference-between-mike-trout-and-mookie-betts/

The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Friday, 30 September 2016 16:18 (three years ago) link

i'm not sensing a lot of betts momentum compared to previous dudes who have won, it feels like a lot of people are saying trout deserves it.

nomar, Friday, 30 September 2016 17:00 (three years ago) link

I think that Cameron article makes it clear why Trout will win. You've got the old-school traditional guy (Luddite, if you prefer) who's going to vote for Betts--but even he's putting Trout second. You've got a second guy who's about halfway; prefers the MVP to play for a contender, but doesn't treat that as an absolute--and he's voting for Trout. So if Trout gets some of the halfway voters, plus all of the sabermetric voters, and then you get people like Heyman putting Trout second (or at worst third), I'm sure that'll put him comfortably ahead of a Betts/Altuve/Donaldson/Machado traffic jam.

clemenza, Friday, 30 September 2016 19:56 (three years ago) link

still think ortiz will siphon off some betts votes too

nomar, Friday, 30 September 2016 19:58 (three years ago) link

Definitely, should have mentioned Ortiz--lots of sentimental support, Triple Crown stats, vote-splitting on the same team, etc.

clemenza, Friday, 30 September 2016 20:03 (three years ago) link

if i understand correctly how bbref's MVP shares works, a trout win would put him 16th all time. after 5 seasons

k3vin k., Friday, 30 September 2016 20:10 (three years ago) link

@BNightengale
The three finalists voted on by the players for their Player of Year Award: Jose Altuve, Mookie Betts and David Ortiz

mookieproof, Friday, 30 September 2016 21:13 (three years ago) link

the trees do not understand the forest

The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Friday, 30 September 2016 21:39 (three years ago) link

the trees like narrative, which i guess isn't too surprising

mookieproof, Friday, 30 September 2016 21:41 (three years ago) link

maybe he's a real jerk

Immediate Follower (NA), Friday, 30 September 2016 21:53 (three years ago) link

he doesn't seem like a lot of fun tbh

How Butch, I mean (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 30 September 2016 21:59 (three years ago) link

from everything i've read his makeup and general likablity are beyond reproach, the issue really is just the angels sucking

k3vin k., Friday, 30 September 2016 22:04 (three years ago) link

there is literally no rational reason for not voting for trout this year btw. he leads in every category. leverage-based, situational, etc he's helped his team win more than anyone else

k3vin k., Friday, 30 September 2016 22:14 (three years ago) link

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/9/7/0/95680970/092014_laa_trout_pats_beltre_twitter_pz1uno3t.gif

so likable Beltre doesn't even punch him here

nomar, Friday, 30 September 2016 22:15 (three years ago) link

there is literally no rational reason for not voting for trout this year btw. he leads in every category. leverage-based, situational, etc he's helped his team win more than anyone else

― k3vin k., Friday, September 30, 2016 6:14 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

didn't get his team to the playoffs

like i get what you're saying but all that stuff doesn't matter to the voters if the issue is no playoffs = team wins don't matter

qualx, Friday, 30 September 2016 23:10 (three years ago) link

they shd give the MVP to a team then

*throws up hands, throws up*

The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 1 October 2016 00:08 (three years ago) link

this is the players' vote. no one should expect the players to care about leverage-based or situational or basically any stats. when trout hits 40 homers as a 41yo DH i'm sure he'll win it then

ugh awards are the worst

mookieproof, Saturday, 1 October 2016 00:40 (three years ago) link

trout is so good

k3vin k., Saturday, 1 October 2016 02:36 (three years ago) link

What I've been saying:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/09/30/mike-trout-al-mvp-chances/91314092/

there is literally no rational reason for not voting for trout this year btw.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement when you're looking at two guys separated by one WAR on Baseball Reference (if you take the halfway average with the other WAR, it's 1.3). Betts closes the gap defensively, though, and I'm not the person to make the argument for him there.

clemenza, Saturday, 1 October 2016 14:13 (three years ago) link

My prediction--prediction--for A.L. MVP:

1. Trout
2. Betts
3. Altuve
4. Ortiz
5. Donaldson
6. Machado
7. Cano
8. Cabrera
9. Beltre

The 10th spot will either be Kluber in there somewhere, or Edwin.

clemenza, Monday, 3 October 2016 00:43 (three years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtyC4-zXYAArB45.jpg

-- joey votto

mookieproof, Monday, 3 October 2016 21:26 (three years ago) link

Always number one in our hearts, Joey.

Andy K, Monday, 3 October 2016 21:29 (three years ago) link

<3

k3vin k., Monday, 3 October 2016 21:31 (three years ago) link

five months pass...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8LHQBXVoAEzy7F.jpg:small

mookieproof, Thursday, 30 March 2017 14:44 (two years ago) link

Trout is insanely talented, and that’s his foundation. But to be this good and stay this good, players also need to be able to adjust. They need to see weaknesses and work to eliminate them. Trout’s done that! He used to have a high-fastball problem. Been addressed. Relatedly, he used to have a strikeout problem. Been addressed. A couple years back he didn’t do enough on the bases. Been addressed. He used to run below-average arm ratings in the outfield. Been addressed. He’s so good.

Yet I’m a professional digger, in a sense. I’m always on the hunt for unknown strengths or weaknesses, and I’ve stumbled upon something I didn’t realize. There is an area where Mike Trout was bad. Last season, I mean. Who could’ve known? Even the best have their blemishes.

For the Angels team-preview segmenton Effectively Wild some time back, Ben and I talked with Pedro Moura. We did talk about other Angels players — there are other Angels players — but we had to talk about Trout for at least a few minutes. One of the things Moura mentioned is that Trout is still kind of figuring his way out when it comes to starting at-bats. When he first came up, he watched the first pitch almost every single time. As he’s gotten older, he’s become more willing to swing early.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/i-found-a-statistic-where-mike-trout-is-bad/

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 30 March 2017 14:48 (two years ago) link

Legitimately think he might be the best player of all time, barring future injuries/performance drop off.

Handsome Bookor, Thursday, 30 March 2017 15:37 (two years ago) link

if he keeps this up for three more years the conversation would definitely start.

frogbs, Thursday, 30 March 2017 15:41 (two years ago) link

in terms of raw ability it's got to be either he or bonds. in terms of production relative to his peers, still got a while to go

k3vin k., Thursday, 30 March 2017 15:55 (two years ago) link

i throw Mays in with those two.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 30 March 2017 15:58 (two years ago) link

even the all time greats from previous eras are in a tough spot comparing to today's players in terms of raw ability. strength, speed, conditioning, nutritional regimens for the average player are just so far above what they were several decades ago

k3vin k., Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:00 (two years ago) link

going back to relative to his peers, here is a list of players trout, in his age-25 season, is likely to pass on the career WAR leaderboard this year:

sandy koufax
bernie williams
david wright
joe mauer
justin verlander
torii hunter
orlando cepeda
jason giambi
kirby puckett
mark teixiera
johan santana
mickey cochrane
fred mcgriff
enos slaughter
jeff kent
david ortiz
bill dickey
louis aparico
johnny damon

k3vin k., Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:08 (two years ago) link

comparing players across too many generations just kind of gets silly. it's hard to imagine how trout would do in the 30 and 40s, riding around in buses without air conditioning, playing in heavy wool uniforms, getting routinely beaned by gritty pitchers named "bean", etc

Karl Malone, Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:10 (two years ago) link

xpost probably cano too

Karl Malone, Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:12 (two years ago) link

xxxp that's true. IMO I think today's players would kick the asses of the 1950's all-star team. mostly because the majority of them are dead, ha ha. but seriously.

from 1989 to 2004, Bonds had one duffer of a season, in 1999 when he hurt his elbow (cuz of all the steroids! say the tabloids). even then he still slugged over 600 and put up 3.3 WAR. granted he wasn't transcendent every one of those years, but his peak with SF is beyond anything that Trout's done, even though I guess it's possible for Trout to kick it up another level, he's still so young. if he puts up 3 or 4 more 9-10 WAR seasons I think a lot of people will be saying just that. then again the conversation started with Pujols too, and we all know how that turned out.

frogbs, Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:13 (two years ago) link

if you ignore era context, today's regulars are better athletes than yesteryear's greats, no doubt. xxp

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:14 (two years ago) link

...merely an all time great at his position and first ballot HOFer lol xp

ein Sexmonster (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:45 (two years ago) link

well, yeah. Pujols is that great. But it seems like "three more seasons like this and he's in the conversation for the best ever" and his sudden decline coincided with each other.

frogbs, Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:46 (two years ago) link

I'm also just being glib. Baseball! ^_^

ein Sexmonster (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 30 March 2017 16:53 (two years ago) link

even the all time greats from previous eras are in a tough spot comparing to today's players in terms of raw ability.

Agree with the things you list after that, but wouldn't raw ability, because it's the most subjective/amorphous/unquantifiable of all those, be the least affected by era? Basically it exists in the realm of legend. To read about Bo Jackson the baseball player, his raw ability dwarfed every player before or since.

clemenza, Friday, 31 March 2017 00:16 (two years ago) link

maybe "raw ability" is too subjective. by that meant what i listed afterward: strength, speed, conditioning, etc (most importantly, coaching, year-round training) and how that translates to absolute ability

k3vin k., Friday, 31 March 2017 00:39 (two years ago) link

did it again. absolute ability = baseball skills

k3vin k., Friday, 31 March 2017 00:41 (two years ago) link

anyone see the Trout doc on MLBN?

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7417714/v1251990383/mike-trout-millville-to-mvp

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 17:41 (two years ago) link

no but i will now

k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:48 (two years ago) link

i'm going to guess it's pretty boring

k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:49 (two years ago) link

trout apparently got the neck gene from his dad

k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:59 (two years ago) link

Dishes, laundry -- very difficult challenges he was forced to overcome.

Andy K, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 02:59 (two years ago) link

somewhere in the swamps of jersey

mookieproof, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 03:02 (two years ago) link

already has regained his rightful place atop fWAR leaderboard

k3vin k., Thursday, 13 April 2017 22:06 (two years ago) link

a spot that should be called the Trout position henceforth.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 14 April 2017 03:39 (two years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C99gAnvU0AA6Sw8.jpg

mookieproof, Friday, 21 April 2017 19:48 (two years ago) link

byron buxton's career bWAR: 1.9

mike trout's career bWAR by the time he was byron buxton's current age: 28.7

mookieproof, Monday, 24 April 2017 19:05 (two years ago) link

mike trout's bWAR through 20 games this season: 1.9

k3vin k., Monday, 24 April 2017 19:10 (two years ago) link

on pace for 15 WAR? nice

frogbs, Monday, 24 April 2017 19:20 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

@jjcoop36
Angels bWAR position players update: Mike Trout 2.7 bWAR. Rest of Angels position players combined -0.3 bWAR.

mookieproof, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 14:38 (two years ago) link

somehow the angels are a .500 team

k3vin k., Tuesday, 16 May 2017 14:54 (two years ago) link

carrying the team on his neck

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 16 May 2017 15:10 (two years ago) link

honestly not sure he's planning on slowing down this season. 2-2 with a HR, a double, and 2 walks today. up to 224 wRC+

k3vin k., Sunday, 21 May 2017 18:54 (two years ago) link

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-preposterous-mike-trout/

k3vin k., Wednesday, 24 May 2017 15:13 (two years ago) link

i don't see the point of starting a thread for the other Angels, but i missed that CJ Cron was optioned to AAA.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/5/23/15679836/mike-trout-angels-offense

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 May 2017 19:48 (two years ago) link

it's amazing they're a .500 team with that roster

k3vin k., Wednesday, 24 May 2017 19:51 (two years ago) link

surely the Scioscia Era is in its dusk

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 May 2017 20:02 (two years ago) link

sprained his thumb stealing second today. i've had that kind of injury before and it does not go away easily. hoping he's not out too long

k3vin k., Monday, 29 May 2017 02:19 (two years ago) link

The only old timer baseball analysis I can get behind is that diving into a base hands-first is dumb

Karl Malone, Monday, 29 May 2017 03:48 (two years ago) link

sounds like he's going to be out 5-8 weeks. god dammit

k3vin k., Monday, 29 May 2017 23:50 (two years ago) link

daaaamn

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 06:54 (two years ago) link

sheeit

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 12:07 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

(Thumb): Trout had surgery to repair a torn UCL and a dorsal capsule in his left thumb but is ahead of schedule in his rehabilitation and is lining up to return prior to the All-Star break. (Updated June 13, 2017)

k3vin k., Thursday, 22 June 2017 15:21 (two years ago) link

*punches the air*

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:10 (two years ago) link

still third in fWAR, sixth in bWAR

mookieproof, Thursday, 22 June 2017 18:31 (two years ago) link

i just want him to continue his streak of top 2 finishes in the MVP race.

nomar, Thursday, 22 June 2017 20:26 (two years ago) link

The situation is virtually identical to Kershaw last year: 149 innings, 2/3 of a season (guessing that's what Trout ends up playing), still finished third in WAR among pitchers and fifth in Cy Young voting. Normally I'd say top two would be extremely unlikely, but when you look at the leaders in WAR, there's lots of daylight. Give Judge one of the top two spots, then you've Betts (main competition), Altuve and Correa splitting votes, Garcia (possible), Hicks (no shot with Judge), and Simmons (no shot). So I could see that happening.

clemenza, Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:15 (two years ago) link

who is simmons? andrelton?

k3vin k., Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:27 (two years ago) link

Yeah. Besides the fact he's a teammate of Trout's, how far back do you have to go to find a top two finisher who's contribution is largely defensive? (Actual question...Ozzie finished second in 1987--has there been anyone since?) Mind you, according to WAR, Simmons' value is primarily offensive this year.

clemenza, Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:44 (two years ago) link

well a good chunk of that offensive value is just the positional adjustment; he's hitting roughly league average. don't think he's the kind of guy who can really string together an MVP season, trout or no

k3vin k., Thursday, 22 June 2017 23:07 (two years ago) link

Skimmed through all the MVP votes since '87, and I can't identify one defensive specialist who even finished in the Top Five of any MVP vote. Lots of great defenders, of course, but when Edmonds or I-Rod or Andruw Jones or Molina finished Top Five, it was in seasons where they had big years with the bat. When Lorenzo Cain finished third in 2015, and Lucroy finished high in 2014, they had great offensive years.

clemenza, Thursday, 22 June 2017 23:39 (two years ago) link

yeah simmons is a fun and super solid player, he's just not in that conversation

k3vin k., Thursday, 22 June 2017 23:46 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

26 today

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGoqEmSWAAQxNiM.jpg

mookieproof, Monday, 7 August 2017 15:36 (two years ago) link

8th in WAR this year, 1.6 behind altuve. i mean i think he might end up leading the league again, if he maintains the pace of his season. he's only 1 pt behind Simmons for second...

nomar, Monday, 7 August 2017 15:40 (two years ago) link

lol he doesn't even have enough PAs to qualify according to FG

frogbs, Monday, 7 August 2017 15:44 (two years ago) link

need 3.1 PAs per team game. he'll qualify by the end of the year

k3vin k., Monday, 7 August 2017 16:19 (two years ago) link

and yeah, i'd take him at even money to lead the AL in WAR by the end of the year

k3vin k., Monday, 7 August 2017 16:20 (two years ago) link

already went from 1.6 behind Altuve to 1.3 behind him in the two days since i posted that update.

nomar, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 20:59 (two years ago) link

Someone should collect online pieces like this and put them into a book:

http://www.si.com/mlb/2017/08/10/mike-trout-angels-hall-fame

It'd be a thousand pages long already.

clemenza, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:01 (two years ago) link

Is there a biography yet? Obvious title just waiting there: A Little Trouty, but Quite Good.

clemenza, Sunday, 13 August 2017 21:11 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

pretty lame that trout is sitting tonight given the angels are in the wild card hunt and he needs PAs to qualify

k3vin k., Tuesday, 29 August 2017 04:21 (two years ago) link

It's his first day off since coming off the DL but more importantly he's in an 0-17 slump and looking terrible at the plate.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 04:41 (two years ago) link

yeah fair point

k3vin k., Tuesday, 29 August 2017 04:45 (two years ago) link

btw you can still 'qualify' if youre short, they just add the empty PAs

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 11:12 (two years ago) link

4-4 with a HR, 3B, and a walk tonight. guess that slump is over

k3vin k., Thursday, 31 August 2017 09:04 (two years ago) link

Angels first baseman C.J. Cron won a bet with Mike Trout, hitting two home runs in an 8-2 win over the Athletics. Trout will keep his side of the deal, buying Cron Phoenix Suns season tickets.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 31 August 2017 15:45 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

he's had a really rough month (for him, at least, 110 wRC+) with the bat but somehow has put up the BB/K of 2017 joey votto (17.2%/11.5%) during that time

k3vin k., Monday, 25 September 2017 02:41 (two years ago) link

Think he's ceded the MVP to Altuve, though.

clemenza, Monday, 25 September 2017 02:53 (two years ago) link

judge is trying to have something to say about that

k3vin k., Monday, 25 September 2017 02:55 (two years ago) link

I really hope Judge doesn't win. Even with this recent resurgence, his second half stats still pale next to the first half. Barring any major surprises the last 10 games, I'd go Altuve, Ramirez, Trout, then Judge.

clemenza, Monday, 25 September 2017 03:14 (two years ago) link

i'll never know why you care so much about 2nd half performance, but judge's second half wRC+ is over 125 after today's game, just because it was weirdly partitioned into a really bad stretch and a really hot stretch doesn't make it any less legitimate

k3vin k., Monday, 25 September 2017 03:20 (two years ago) link

Ranger fan here, and I'm ruminating on days yesteryear, right around the Bautista punch and before Rougie Odor's contract, when many homers in the area were proclaiming they wouldn't trade Odor straight up for Altuve. We're talking arguably the best player in baseball versus arguably the worst.

rip van wanko, Monday, 25 September 2017 03:23 (two years ago) link

i'll never know why you care so much about 2nd half performance

I think we've argued this before. To me, it's no different than assigning greater leverage to what happens late in the game. (To be fair, Judge is having a phenomenal ninth inning.)

clemenza, Monday, 25 September 2017 03:35 (two years ago) link

i can't see judge winning in a year where his big slump was highlighted by an extremely well-publicized negative record that he set by like 40 extra games

qualx, Monday, 25 September 2017 04:28 (two years ago) link

who'll they go for, the safe amazing second basemen on a playoff team who leads the league in WAR or that guy who did nothing but strike out for what felt like half the season

qualx, Monday, 25 September 2017 04:29 (two years ago) link

To me, it's no different than assigning greater leverage to what happens late in the game.

Except a win in April is the same as a win in September. A lead after the fourth inning is not the same as the lead after the ninth.

So, different.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 September 2017 14:38 (two years ago) link

is the same = of equal value

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 September 2017 14:38 (two years ago) link

morbs otm

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 25 September 2017 14:39 (two years ago) link

A run in the first inning counts just as much towards the final score as a run in the ninth inning.

A lead in mid-May is not the same as a lead on Oct. 2.

Leverage in the course of a season is just as meaningful as leverage over the course of nine innings.

clemenza, Monday, 25 September 2017 22:50 (two years ago) link

that's definitely completely wrong though

qualx, Monday, 25 September 2017 23:37 (two years ago) link

Then explain how.

clemenza, Monday, 25 September 2017 23:38 (two years ago) link

I can accept dismissing both as specious--a run is a run and a win is a win--and I can also accept placing value on both. But saying one is meaningful and the other doesn't exist, that makes no sense to me at all.

clemenza, Monday, 25 September 2017 23:39 (two years ago) link

because runs in a single game and wins over a single season are obviously different functions? the only reason anyone cares about leverage as a statistic is because it's related to observable, statistically significant skill. "season-wide" leverage is a team skill and "team skills" are not relevant over multiple seasons worth of data.

leverage index also takes into account a bunch of other factors that don't equate to a season of baseball. if the only factor was "this guy does better in later innings" then yeah, it'd be pretty meaningless.

qualx, Monday, 25 September 2017 23:51 (two years ago) link

you're comparing a season of 162 games to a single game of 9 innings, i don't really know how else to explain that they don't match up

qualx, Monday, 25 September 2017 23:53 (two years ago) link

I'm off to watch the Vietnam documentary--I will try to get my head around that, but I still don't see why, in at least a general sense, the two aren't comparable. If you took two players with virtually identical season stats, and the one guy's monster month was April and the other guy's was September, I don't think there's a GM or manager who wouldn't prefer having the September guy. Everyone remember Yaz's finish in 1967; famous Aprils aren't famous for very long.

This did come up in an e-mail I sent to James a few years ago. For what it's worth (not very much, I'm sure, seeing as he's old and cranky and says dumb things about Donald Trump):

I remember we used to have people in the field who would fume about late-inning homers being counted as more important than early-game homers, etc. We just hadn't worked out a coherent way to think about the problem. Eventually we all came around to the concept of "leveraged" situations, a concept with which people are comfortable, so people stopped bitching about game-time performance being given additional weight. It's not unreasonable to think that late-season performance in a pennant race is ALSO leveraged performance, and should be given weight.

clemenza, Monday, 25 September 2017 23:59 (two years ago) link

you're gonna make me repost that tweet about the nazis aren't you

mookieproof, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 00:04 (two years ago) link

not all leverage takes place *late* in the game btw

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 00:11 (two years ago) link

highest leverage, that is

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 00:11 (two years ago) link

also i thought we were talking about wins, not "a lead"

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 00:14 (two years ago) link

late-game and late-season "matter" more but it's silly to assign greater weight to them when evaluating players, since performing better or worse during those times is mostly random

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:26 (two years ago) link

and when i say late game i mean high leverage

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:28 (two years ago) link

I agree that late-season performance is probably no more a repeatable skill than clutch hitting at the game level--you could probably find a very occasional player who reliably hits better in September, but with the great majority, it probably fluctuates from season to season. When voting for an MVP, though, I don't think it's unreasonable to take late-season performance into account, anymore that it's unreasonable to remember Carlton Fisk or Bill Mazeroski or Jose Bautista. They didn't win those games single-handedly--stuff happened in the early innings that mattered, that led to what they did--but we remember them most, and give them extra credit.

And just like all high-leverage situations don't happen late in the game, there are inflection points throughout a season. If you face your main divisional rival in a four-game series in June, and both teams are tied, a four-game sweep could change the direction of the season.

I don't think we're going to agree here. The analogy between leverage at the game and seasonal level seems plain as day to me; they're very different to the rest, or most of the rest of you.

clemenza, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:59 (two years ago) link

no i think that analogy made perfect sense

i just think individual awards should go to the guys who played the best over the course of the season, without respect to leverage. i would need to have the feeling that the attribute i am using to influence my hypothetical vote is one over which the player has some sort of control, can improve at, etc. trying to strip randomness (and sentimentality in general, i guess) out of the equation seems like the right idea to me

k3vin k., Tuesday, 26 September 2017 02:55 (two years ago) link

if leverage is that important to the MVP, someone should go back over previous award winners and see who played for dominant teams that were far enough ahead of the rest of the league their late-seasons games didn't really matter...and then we should retroactively PUNISH those players

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 03:24 (two years ago) link

i'm sorry, joe morgan, but we need to talk about your 1975 MVP award. and also your broadcasting career

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 03:27 (two years ago) link

(i'm mostly just taking the piss here - if there isn't a clear deserving MVP winner, which is often the case, the deciding factors often turn to recency bias, and late season games are definitely part of that. that's probably not objectively the best way to go about it but it's very understandable.)

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 03:28 (two years ago) link

Yes--when I say it should have some weight in MVP voting, I really only mean in close votes, or with extraordinary September finishes like Yaz in '67 (who obviously would have won anyway), Caminiti that one year, Manny with the Dodgers, etc. Joe Morgan gets to keep his '75 award, the '76 one too. What got me started down this road was Judge--that if were to be a close vote between him and Altuve (which I don't think it will be), I would want Judge's comparatively poor second half to be weighted into the vote. Except now Judge is scrambling that up even further.

clemenza, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 05:13 (two years ago) link

in the event of a tie, it comes down to whoever is tallest

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 05:46 (two years ago) link

the mvp playoff showdown, this sunday, two men will stand back to back on the pay per view special event of the decade, who is the tallest, aaron judge or jose altuve? tune in and find out

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 05:48 (two years ago) link

i hear one of them is particularly tall while the other is particularly short, this is gonna get interesting

qualx, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 06:05 (two years ago) link

you know what, i don't care that judge has some natural height advantages and has gone undefeated in every single tallest person showdown that he has ever participated in. my money is on this hotshot jose altuve kid who has never entered a height contest but nonetheless possesses great bat speed and an instinct that can't be taught. he's the underdog for sure but i think his skills translate.

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 06:08 (two years ago) link

ppl who are 'into' leverage for these awaaaahds tend to look at WPA

Trout 5.1
Altuve 3.6

(Judge not in top 10)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 11:09 (two years ago) link

Eighth youngest to reach 200 HR:

Mel Ott -- 25 years and 144 days
Eddie Mathews -- 25 years and 242 days
Albert Pujols -- 25 years and 257 days
Jimmie Foxx -- 25 years and 266 days
Mickey Mantle -- 25 years and 279 days
Alex Rodriguez -- 25 years and 289 days
Frank Thomas -- 25 years and 360 days
Trout -- 26 years and 54 days

clemenza, Saturday, 30 September 2017 17:15 (two years ago) link

(So he's actually within a calendar year of being the youngest.)

clemenza, Saturday, 30 September 2017 17:18 (two years ago) link

three months pass...

haha I also used to watch a lot of the weather channel as a kid

k3vin k., Thursday, 4 January 2018 19:03 (two years ago) link

his love of meteorology has long been noted on the EW podcast

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 4 January 2018 19:11 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Mike Trout says on a conference call that he's not sure yet if he's going to the Super Bowl because he likes watching at home and watching the commercials.

— Lindsey Adler (@lindseyadler) January 23, 2018

mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 18:12 (two years ago) link

sounds like an American

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 18:19 (two years ago) link

what a fucking geek

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 00:26 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

you'll never guess who is leading the majors in WAR

Karl Malone, Monday, 23 April 2018 20:26 (one year ago) link

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mike-trout-is-impossible/

k3vin k., Monday, 23 April 2018 21:06 (one year ago) link

if i'm not mistaken this season he's already passed 20 players in career WAR (2 of them being Votto and Kinsler.)

omar little, Monday, 23 April 2018 21:22 (one year ago) link

Oh my God pic.twitter.com/axuQLrtARv

— Sung Min Kim (@sung_minkim) April 28, 2018

k3vin k., Saturday, 28 April 2018 04:44 (one year ago) link

Since the start of the 2016 season, Mike Trout has surpassed 67 Hall of Famers in career WAR. https://t.co/Z5udhbpXkJ

— Ted Berg (@OGTedBerg) April 30, 2018

mookieproof, Monday, 30 April 2018 19:29 (one year ago) link

Willie Stargell played parts of 21 seasons in the Majors, hit 475 homers, made seven All-Star teams, won the NL MVP in 1978, made the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, and was just surpassed in WAR by Mike Trout.

— Ted Berg (@OGTedBerg) May 9, 2018

mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 May 2018 20:33 (one year ago) link

with that 3.3 WAR in 35(!) games, he's on pace to pass another twenty guys in WAR before the All-Star break. not to mention being on pace for a WAR over 14(!!)

omar little, Wednesday, 9 May 2018 21:22 (one year ago) link

mike trout: just a fad?

obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 9 May 2018 21:35 (one year ago) link

Tim:
Mike Trout is 0 for his last 19. What’s going on? Is the world about to blow up?


Jeff Sullivan:
I like how he’s hitless over 22 plate appearances and his OBP is .318

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 May 2018 19:50 (one year ago) link

So he will most likely pass Utley this year, and if Pujols retires this year or the next, he would stand atop the active WAR leaderboards.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 25 May 2018 16:00 (one year ago) link

don't forget Beltre!

omar little, Friday, 25 May 2018 16:03 (one year ago) link

or Cabrera and Cano...

omar little, Friday, 25 May 2018 16:04 (one year ago) link

goddamn 'active player' on fangraphs that take away the DL or suspensed when i want to look at whole careers.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 25 May 2018 16:11 (one year ago) link

He's already passed Cano on FG, Cabrera he might do it by the end of 2019. Beltre he is still relatively far from it.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 25 May 2018 16:13 (one year ago) link

what's crazy is that despite being ~ 25 WAR behind beltre, that's like about 3 seasons of trout away, maybe even less

obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Friday, 25 May 2018 16:21 (one year ago) link

The way Pujols is playing, if he sticks around he might meet Trout halfway between Mike’s current WAR and his own.

omar little, Friday, 25 May 2018 16:39 (one year ago) link

career-high four XBH tonight in the bronx

mookieproof, Sunday, 27 May 2018 01:25 (one year ago) link

jumped up into the top 200 in rWAR last night

currently hitting .313/.461/.687

k3vin k., Sunday, 27 May 2018 15:31 (one year ago) link

Mike Trout noted that defensive metrics didn't like him much over the last few years, decided he wanted to get better, and.. did. He got better. He's always getting better.

MORE -> https://t.co/Dm6RkCAHI9

— Mike Petriello (@mike_petriello) May 30, 2018

mookieproof, Wednesday, 30 May 2018 21:48 (one year ago) link

this guy

k3vin k., Wednesday, 30 May 2018 22:16 (one year ago) link

important to keep in mind how volatile these defensive numbers are in small samples tho

k3vin k., Wednesday, 30 May 2018 22:23 (one year ago) link

Predicting 11 new posts on this thread tomorrow.

clemenza, Sunday, 3 June 2018 03:30 (one year ago) link

oh god don’t scare me

k3vin k., Sunday, 3 June 2018 03:42 (one year ago) link

a pair of two-HR games in a row

omar little, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 16:15 (one year ago) link

If you're wondering, a full season like Trout's past three games would apparently be a 37-WAR season

— Sam Miller (@SamMillerBB) June 14, 2018

mookieproof, Thursday, 14 June 2018 16:15 (one year ago) link

this guy man

k3vin k., Thursday, 14 June 2018 16:17 (one year ago) link

too bad the angels lost all three games

mookieproof, Thursday, 14 June 2018 16:17 (one year ago) link

I’ve been watching him a lot lately. That swing of his, it’s so fast and compact and he just destroys everything.

omar little, Thursday, 14 June 2018 16:26 (one year ago) link

projections on fangraphs officially have him at 11.0 or 11.1 for the season...and those are the 50th percentile numbers

k3vin k., Saturday, 16 June 2018 13:48 (one year ago) link

Mishmash of 1000-game markers:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23800260/how-mike-trout-stacks-mlb-greats-first-1000-games

clemenza, Saturday, 23 June 2018 12:27 (one year ago) link

can’t find a leaderboard of WAR through 100 career games anywhere, not sure if it exists for the older guys

k3vin k., Saturday, 23 June 2018 21:52 (one year ago) link

read this in a deadspin comment, haven't verified but i believe it:

the difference in fWAR between the #1 player and #2 player from 2012-present (Mike Trout and Josh Donaldson) is the same as the difference between #2 and #118 (Carlos Ruiz)

omar little, Thursday, 5 July 2018 16:21 (one year ago) link

[Removed Illegal Link]

manfred isn't exactly wrong, but what a dick. the angels had two off-days in may (both of which were probably spent traveling). when is he supposed to 'do marketing'? what exactly is in it for him?

and fwiw 'off-days' aren't always actual days off, depending on an owner's priorities

mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:31 (one year ago) link

Rob Manfred: Mike Trout limits his popularity because he won't market himself

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24125053/mike-trout-bigger-marketed-rob-manfred-says

mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:31 (one year ago) link

Mike Trout, consensus best baseball player on planet and incredibly wealthy man, should do more things to promote himself

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:36 (one year ago) link

i wonder what percentage of mike trout's plate appearances have taken place after midnight eastern

mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:57 (one year ago) link

I've often mulled over a variation on the same thing (haven't read the piece): baseball needs to do a better job of marketing Mike Trout. When I mentioned to my class in the spring that I was going to see the Jays play the Angels that night, not one kid had heard of Trout. There are mitigating factors there, primarily that we're in Canada, but still--they all know LeBron James, they all know the most famous soccer players, and most of them know Tom Brady. For starters, they should turn the year-end awards into a big televised production like the NHL does. I was watching that a few weeks ago, wondering why baseball doesn't do that. (Baseball saves their big production for the HOF induction, which, much as I might enjoy that, doesn't help market the game today.)

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:14 (one year ago) link

the game just doesn't lend itself to that kind of thing. lebron's on the floor for 40 minutes a game; trout gets to bat once every 45 minutes

but yeah, it's baseball's responsibility, not his. and maybe if baseball hadn't spent the last 15 years promoting the yankees-red sox show, people would care about the angels*

*probably not, but still

mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:49 (one year ago) link

Today, the #Angels released the following statement on OF Mike Trout: pic.twitter.com/xFLURtZ4bT

— Angels (@Angels) July 18, 2018

mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 21:34 (one year ago) link

damn right imo, fuck being a workaholic esp for your bosses

k3vin k., Wednesday, 18 July 2018 21:37 (one year ago) link

update btw
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/betts-ramirez-trout-and-the-blistering-pace/

k3vin k., Wednesday, 18 July 2018 21:38 (one year ago) link

Love that Angels statement, that's a real fuck-you to Manfred.

a shomin-geki poster with some horror elements (WilliamC), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 21:43 (one year ago) link

Weather enthusiast!

Andy K, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 23:04 (one year ago) link

that statement rules. manfred seems like a complete ass.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 23:13 (one year ago) link

The heck Mike Trout can do more really? More commercials? More twitter beefs? He's everything baseball fans ever wanted from a player, dude is the Ty Cobb of this century, that can't be insufficient.

The majors could do with a less 'unwritten rules' and pitching clock, sure but the voices that wish baseball was more like basketball are infuriating, I want baseball to be baseball (and basketball to be basketball).

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 19 July 2018 03:53 (one year ago) link

this guy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dib6XDvWkAAXS8V.jpg:small

mookieproof, Thursday, 19 July 2018 16:46 (one year ago) link

let normies be normies imo

k3vin k., Thursday, 19 July 2018 16:58 (one year ago) link

should have ended it with #FlyEaglesFly

mookieproof, Thursday, 19 July 2018 17:20 (one year ago) link

the game just doesn't lend itself to that kind of thing. lebron's on the floor for 40 minutes a game; trout gets to bat once every 45 minutes

otm. not only that but the difference between an average player and a superstar is what, 2 extra hits a week?

other thing is that the Angels have not yet made the postseason w/ Trout and aren't exactly an exciting team in any other aspect (the injured Ohtani aside). baseball's really the only sport where the best player in the league can fail to make the postseason year in and year out.

frogbs, Thursday, 19 July 2018 18:21 (one year ago) link

they lost a division series to KC in 2014

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 July 2018 18:25 (one year ago) link

Trout went 1-for-12 with a homer

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 July 2018 18:26 (one year ago) link

whoa I totally forgot about that

frogbs, Thursday, 19 July 2018 18:31 (one year ago) link

Most years the division series events are gone from my brain by December.

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 July 2018 18:32 (one year ago) link

the angels roster is actually really fun imo. ohtani obviously. kole calhoun is having a horrendous year at the plate but is a really good defensive right fielder. maldonado and simmons and kinsler are elite defenders

k3vin k., Thursday, 19 July 2018 19:14 (one year ago) link

my friend wanted to "pick a team" to get himself really into baseball this year and i recommended him this team, for all of their faults (and there are a lot of them!) there is a lot to enjoy as a fan. p much everything you said. thought it was the perfect team to get into mlb with -- a lot of fun with a LOOOOT of agony on the side.

challops trap house (Will M.), Thursday, 19 July 2018 19:28 (one year ago) link

slugging .347 in july, ew

k3vin k., Saturday, 21 July 2018 19:33 (one year ago) link

More on Trout-Manfred:

http://www.si.com/mlb/2018/07/24/mike-trout-marketing

clemenza, Wednesday, 25 July 2018 13:36 (one year ago) link

...of the 100 most followed athletes on Twitter just one is a baseball player: Tim Tebow

francisF, Wednesday, 25 July 2018 16:29 (one year ago) link

My favorite line: "Forget ranking among LeBron James and J.J. Watt; Trout is supposedly just as recognizable as onetime NBA rebounding ace Kenneth Faried."

clemenza, Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:02 (one year ago) link

trout this year became the second player with 5 20/20 seasons before the age of 27, darryl strawberry (!) the other

k3vin k., Saturday, 28 July 2018 02:53 (one year ago) link

darryl could play, you punk kids

mookieproof, Saturday, 28 July 2018 03:03 (one year ago) link

oh I know, but I definitely had to check bbref to make sure mays wasn't missing from that list. crazy!

k3vin k., Saturday, 28 July 2018 03:04 (one year ago) link

had to check bbref to make sure mays wasn't missing from that list.

As a 22 year old, Mays took a year off (would have been his 3rd MLB season) to serve his country, but more importantly didn't start stealing bases until he was 24.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 28 July 2018 03:41 (one year ago) link

sadly no mention of sidney crosby, whose birthday is also today

mookieproof, Tuesday, 7 August 2018 20:18 (one year ago) link

I saw one!

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 August 2018 20:19 (one year ago) link

sadly no mention of my mom, whose birthday is also today

mookieproof, Tuesday, 7 August 2018 23:10 (one year ago) link

jaymcbday.xlsx

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 8 August 2018 00:51 (one year ago) link

a lot of shaky arguments in that essay but yeah, trout is the shit

k3vin k., Wednesday, 8 August 2018 02:46 (one year ago) link

pretty much

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 02:48 (one year ago) link

yeah that's kind of silly

mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 02:50 (one year ago) link

I've been assuming the past month or so that Trout would again finish second for MVP behind Betts. But it's starting to look like Martinez, even as a DH, will take enough votes from Betts (Ramirez, too) that Trout will win. Usual disclaimer: just handicapping here, not advocating/opining.

clemenza, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 14:32 (one year ago) link

It’s gonna be an interesting decision, for sure.

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 14:44 (one year ago) link

hoping there are enough "best player, period" voters and the fact that Boston may win the East by more than the WAR of any of their players

Jose Ramirez, too

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 August 2018 15:08 (one year ago) link

I don’t think the best player should necessarily win the MVP. trout, betts, and ramirez are all equally deserving this year imo

k3vin k., Wednesday, 8 August 2018 18:01 (one year ago) link

it's an individual award. it should go to the best individual.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 August 2018 18:06 (one year ago) link

no it goes to the player who had the best season

k3vin k., Wednesday, 8 August 2018 20:55 (one year ago) link

assuming these numbers hold I'd be surprised if Trout got it. his team is almost certainly going to miss the playoffs, while the other two practically have it clinched, with Betts being a part of what may be the greatest Boston Red Sox team ever. plus Trout is always in the conversation (plus he's won it twice), and they generally like to get fresh faces in there (remember the "he'll have plenty of chances to win one in the future" argument used to justify giving it to Miggy?). I know voters like to say this stuff doesn't affect their choice but I'm sure it does, for some of them at least. Enough to tilt it away from him.

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 21:03 (one year ago) link

If Martinez wins a Triple Crown--and he's pretty damn close right now--that would really scramble things up. I don't think Martinez would win--DH is a huge mountain to climb right now, more even than 10 years ago, when Ortiz had a 4th/2nd/3rd/4th run--but that would have a big effect on the results. And again, I think he'd take votes away from Betts, opening up room for Trout or Ramirez.

clemenza, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 21:12 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Playing the hits: There are now only eight position players in MLB history with at least three seasons of 10+ WAR. They are: Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Rogers Hornsby, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, and Mike Trout. Mike Trout remains 27 years old.

— Ted Berg (@OGTedBerg) September 27, 2018

mookieproof, Thursday, 27 September 2018 15:43 (one year ago) link

Mike Trout remains 27 years old.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 27 September 2018 16:07 (one year ago) link

jesus christ

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 27 September 2018 16:44 (one year ago) link

did you mean to post that on the politics thred tracer

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 27 September 2018 16:45 (one year ago) link

i was thinking "hey maybe there's a chance Trout will wind up with the most 10-plus WAR seasons..." then saw Hornsby and Mays had 6 apiece, and Ruth had 9. So probably not.

omar little, Thursday, 27 September 2018 16:48 (one year ago) link

He'll probably tie Mays for the most 10+ seasons that don't win him an MVP.

clemenza, Thursday, 27 September 2018 17:22 (one year ago) link

(Can't realistically compare MVP-related things to anyone from the '30s or before--different system.)

clemenza, Thursday, 27 September 2018 17:24 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

James has this new thing on his site called "HOF Value Standard" (he held a contest for the most awkward name possible and that won), which combines Win Shares and WAR. The "bar for Hall of Fame worthiness" is 500; Trout is at 523.2.

clemenza, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 13:25 (one year ago) link

He's really clinging to Win Shares, isn't he?

NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 13:54 (one year ago) link

I know, it's kind of bizarre.

clemenza, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 13:58 (one year ago) link

one month passes...
three weeks pass...

Not news: Mike Trout can't be LeBron James or Wayne Gretzky.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mike-trout-should-have-won-a-playoff-game-by-now/

clemenza, Sunday, 17 March 2019 15:56 (eleven months ago) link

BREAKING: Star center fielder Mike Trout and the Los Angeles Angels are finalizing a record-breaking 12-year contract worth more than $430 million, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN. Details: https://t.co/bROnnC11Uh

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) March 19, 2019

mookieproof, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 14:18 (eleven months ago) link

hope the Angels get him and Ohtani some damn teammates

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 14:27 (eleven months ago) link

wow

NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 14:28 (eleven months ago) link

holy moly

heinrich boll weevil (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 14:36 (eleven months ago) link

so weird to think about mike trout, age 40 baseball player. but as these things go, we'll all blink a few times and then suddenly the mike trout retirement thread will be upon us

but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 14:43 (eleven months ago) link

lol at harper going through all the rigamarole to get a bigger deal than machado

mookieproof, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 14:51 (eleven months ago) link

considering what the Phils paid Bryce this seems like a bargain

omar little, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:17 (eleven months ago) link

yeah i think that's a bit low

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:20 (eleven months ago) link

it’s definitely low but you can only break with precedence so much

k3vin k., Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:22 (eleven months ago) link

a much better use of money than signing the 32(?) year old Pujols to 10 years/240.

omar little, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:25 (eleven months ago) link

only 3 years left on that deal!!!!

but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:25 (eleven months ago) link

good news though:

Look, I know we as LA Angels fans do this every year. One way or another, we find ourselves dwelling on the idea of a possible Albert Pujols “resurgence” and year after year we are disappointed, but hear me out.

LA Angels fans, this could be the year. This could really be the one. Albert Pujols is going to have a good year. I’m speaking (writing) it into existence. I am so confident in Pujols have a good year in 2019 that I would bet… absolutely nothing on it.

My lack of confidence aside, Pujols is having himself a solid Spring Training. He had two surgeries over the offseason, undergoing a procedure on his knee that ended his year while also having bone spurs removed in September. Nonetheless, he is putting on a clinic down in Tempe.

In 19 at-bats, Pujols is slashing .474/.545/.694 for the Angels, proving to us all that he can in fact swing a bat. Only two hits have gone for extra bases, a double and a home run, but Pujols has been making good contact every time he steps up to the plate.

Usually at the beginning of Spring Training we get a quote from The Machine telling us he’s in the best shape of his life, has dropped weight, or something of the sort. This year things were relatively quiet as the best right-handed hitter of all time (yeah I said it) showed up in Tempe. The only reports were regarding his Opening Day status, which is looking good so far.

But none of these Spring Training stats matter unless Pujols can carry it into the regular season. And truth be told Angels fans, I think he can.

Last year, Pujols had to play first base 70 times, his highest total since 2014. Obviously you don’t want someone as injury prone as Pujols manning first that often, and 2019 should prove different for him.

To start the year, Pujols will likely be the everyday designated hitter until Shohei Ohtani returns. Justin Bour will likely be playing first base in that period as well. Once Ohtani returns, things will get interesting as all three players are restricted to 1B/DH.

Obviously, Ohtani will be in the lineup everyday except for the occasional day off and if his rehab towards pitching in 2020 interferes with the game. The Angels are intent on having him ready for 2020 as a pitcher, and have stated that his rehab will take priority.

So when Ohtani doesn’t play, Pujols naturally slides into the DH role. When Ohtani is in the lineup though, there will be some sort of platoon between Pujols and Bour. It could be a natural lefty-righty platoon considering Bour absolutely mashed against right-handed pitching, but that is yet to be determined.

The reason for optimism with Pujols this season comes directly from the fact that he won’t be playing first base nearly as much, keeping him well rested. If Pujols can start the season hot at the plate and carry that momentum once Ohtani comes back, the top of the Angels’ lineup becomes very, very scary.

omar little, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:29 (eleven months ago) link

Albert Pujols has the Los Angeles Angels in a very tough spot. He signed a 10-year, $240 million contract as a free agent prior to the 2012 season. And despite diminishing returns, he intends to fulfill every minute of it, he told Boomskie on Baseball in an exclusive interview a few days ago.

Inclusive of this one, he has three seasons to go on that deal and the Angels owe him $87 million. He turned 39 in January.

“Well, that’s what I signed, right? I signed a 10-year deal,” Pujols said in a nearly empty clubhouse at Tempe Diablo Stadium. “That’s my main goal: to try and honor that. And I’m going to do the best I can to do just that.”

hero

omar little, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:29 (eleven months ago) link

DEFENSE REPORT: 1B Albert Pujols made three errors in the fourth inning, including two on one play. He mishandled one routine bouncer. Then he bobbled another bouncer, for one error, and then swatted the ball into foul territory as he tried to shovel it to first, for a second error. Earlier in the game, Pujols showed some nice footwork to take a wide throw from 3B Ward with his foot on the bag.

omar little, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:30 (eleven months ago) link

Here's the contract valuation for Mike Trout's 12-year, $430 million extension with the Angels. If he's worth more than 44.5 WAR from 2021 to 2032, this contract is a win for Los Angeles. You have to believe that he will easily reach that total. pic.twitter.com/wM1QDVI44R

— Devan Fink (@DevanFink) March 19, 2019

mookieproof, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 15:53 (eleven months ago) link

Smart guy, I'd say--happy where's he playing, big payday but not obsessed with the market. Compared to the three big recent signings, he could have held out for a lot more, I'm sure, either in fewer years or more money.

clemenza, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 17:13 (eleven months ago) link

all that's true, but i'm sure the angels are very happy that he's a smart guy

but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 17:43 (eleven months ago) link

Definitely. And if they ever get out from under the Pujols contract, they can go get him some help.

clemenza, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 18:01 (eleven months ago) link

that WAR above seems very conservative...am I missing something? A decline in age 30 season to 4.1? His avg seasonal WAR (discounting 40 gm rookie season) is 9.1

GIven this projection (and assuming he maintains current avg in 2019/20) he would end the contract 12th in WAR btw Musial and Hornsby

heinrich boll weevil (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 19:49 (eleven months ago) link

Or I guess this is just what he would minimally need to do in order to justify the $?

heinrich boll weevil (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 19:50 (eleven months ago) link

I’m more interested in what his surplus value is w that contract

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 20:13 (eleven months ago) link

Or I guess this is just what he would minimally need to do in order to justify the $?

― heinrich boll weevil (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, March 19, 2019 3:50 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

correct

k3vin k., Tuesday, 19 March 2019 21:04 (eleven months ago) link

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mike-trout-is-a-430-million-bargain/

The title is, if things go as expected, absolutely true, but it made me laugh anyway because every 538 title is constructed the same way, sports and politics both. They had that title ready to go no matter what he signed for.

clemenza, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 22:56 (eleven months ago) link

trout's contract compared to others, with everything converted to 2019 dollars:

https://i.imgur.com/mbm4u8M.png
"I’ve included two Trout contracts below. The first is the $426.5 million figure representing the total value of the money owed to Trout; the second is Trout’s extension, assuming 5% inflation in the following two seasons."

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mike-trout-leaves-money-on-the-table-again/

but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 20 March 2019 01:31 (eleven months ago) link

Those who call Mke Trout “boring” think the Karkrasians are celebrities. Trout cares about being the best, 3.9 or 4.0 to first, winning, being a great teammate, person, without need for celebrity or entourage.

— Peter Gammons (@pgammo) March 20, 2019

Andy K, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 13:42 (eleven months ago) link

lolll

heinrich boll weevil (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 20 March 2019 14:05 (eleven months ago) link

How exactly is the $10M/WAR number calculated? I always see these kinds of numbers but am never completely sure where they come from. Two win players are definitely not getting $20M/yr on the open market now. I'm assuming they look at every current player who signed via free agency and are calculating the average WAR they've put up over the length of their contract.

For example, take Albert Pujols' contract, he's making $24M/yr and he's averaged about 1.5 WAR/yr (I'm estimating) over the seven years of his contract, so that's $16M per win per year. Factor in all free agents in the same way, and you get to $10M/WAR.

If this is how it's done, I'm not sure I buy it. Is inflation taken into account? What about players who sign extensions that buy out their free agent years? Fewer big stars even reach free agency, and you could argue that the lesser players that do are increasingly overpaid, which makes WAR more expensive on the open market. etc.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 14:40 (eleven months ago) link

holy cow I missed that massive contract he signed, goof on him

frogbs, Friday, 29 March 2019 13:43 (ten months ago) link

"I got a good raspberry," he said with a laugh

michael

"But it's all good now. I'm fine. Other than that, I got a strawberry. That's it."

MICHAEL

WHY DO YOU KEEP CALLING IT DIFFERENT BERRIES

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boo'd Up" (Will M.), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:05 (ten months ago) link

a raspberry is a Bronx cheer, he should know that

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:53 (ten months ago) link

Trout just had one of the best series by anyone, ever. He was 6-for-11 with five HRs and six walks -- contributing to a 2.631 OPS, the third-highest by anyone in a four-game series in MLB history (min. 15 PA).

The highest ever was 3.111 by Babe Ruth in June of 1921 against the Tigers. He was 8-for-12 with six HRs and six walks in that series at the Polo Grounds. He also started and won a game on the mound in that series, striking out Ty Cobb.

The second-highest OPS ever was 2.850 by Mickey Mantle in July of 1962 against the A's, as he launched five HRs and walked six times.

mookieproof, Monday, 8 April 2019 13:06 (ten months ago) link

christ

k3vin k., Monday, 8 April 2019 13:32 (ten months ago) link

i watched most of the 2-HR game the other night, and like mookieproof i have no idea why anyone pitches to him given that lineup

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 8 April 2019 13:53 (ten months ago) link

AL player of the week for the first time since july 2015 (?!?)

mookieproof, Monday, 8 April 2019 18:49 (ten months ago) link

that does not seem possible

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 8 April 2019 18:50 (ten months ago) link

TIE for #91, i repeat, TIE for #91

https://i.imgur.com/sA61B56.jpg
(tie) 91. Captain Beefheart - Frownland (1:39)
0.3672 points
5 votes

https://i.imgur.com/YqsqlKS.jpg
(tie) 91. Napalm Death - You Suffer (0:02)
0.3672 points
8 votes

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Monday, 8 April 2019 18:56 (ten months ago) link

the beefheart song is the first song on the countdown that i officially do not like

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Monday, 8 April 2019 18:57 (ten months ago) link

i have been getting into earlier beefheart recently, actually. but i do not understand what people are hearing in frownland

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Monday, 8 April 2019 18:57 (ten months ago) link

but beefheart wouldn't be beefheart if there weren't a bunch of people on the side going "i don't know what people are hearing in this", so i'm just playing the role

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Monday, 8 April 2019 18:58 (ten months ago) link

um

i am sorry

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Monday, 8 April 2019 19:00 (ten months ago) link

btw you all should check out this poll over here, it's great

Top 120 Songs Under 120 Seconds (ILM Poll #95)

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Monday, 8 April 2019 19:01 (ten months ago) link

I thought it was maybe a “trout” mask replica thing

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 8 April 2019 19:01 (ten months ago) link

Trout, Mike - replica jersey

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 8 April 2019 19:10 (ten months ago) link

he's so hot right now that he literally opened a wormhole in this thread

frogbs, Monday, 8 April 2019 19:11 (ten months ago) link

trout mask replica was my keeper league team name for a while, but nobody got it. i changed it to mike 'ehrman' trout.

to halve and half not (voodoo chili), Monday, 8 April 2019 19:12 (ten months ago) link

this is my punishment for never getting around to voting

mookieproof, Monday, 8 April 2019 19:13 (ten months ago) link

:-(

2019 injury roll/discussion

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 04:32 (ten months ago) link

seems like it’s minor, thankfully

k3vin k., Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:22 (ten months ago) link

WAR is live on our site and (no surprise) Mike Trout leads the majors

His 1.8 WAR in 12 games would pro-rate to 24.3 WAR in the course of a full 162-game season pic.twitter.com/b2DrrKI6l4

— Baseball Reference (@baseball_ref) April 10, 2019

mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 16:43 (ten months ago) link

Trout Neck Replica

Andy K, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 23:51 (ten months ago) link

Mike Trout Walk Rate by season since 2014:
2019 - 26.5%
2018 - 20.1%
2017 - 18.5%
2016 - 17.0%
2015 - 13.5%
2014 - 11.8%

Teams are getting smarter apparently.

— Daren Willman (@darenw) April 11, 2019

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 11 April 2019 16:08 (ten months ago) link

at this rate his 2030 season will feature four at-bats

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 11 April 2019 17:57 (ten months ago) link

As with Bonds, though, is there not a threshold where you're now walking the player too often?

clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2019 18:55 (ten months ago) link

well he's slugging .938 so far, so it doesn't quite make sense to walk him . . . but it's pretty close

mookieproof, Thursday, 11 April 2019 19:01 (ten months ago) link

if there's RISP i imagine a .938 looks very walkable!

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boot Edge Edge" (Will M.), Thursday, 11 April 2019 19:06 (ten months ago) link

two weeks pass...

This is the setup Mike Trout gets on a 3-0 count in a tie game pic.twitter.com/xj91tTRCj1

— David Adler (@_dadler) April 25, 2019

mookieproof, Friday, 26 April 2019 20:48 (nine months ago) link

Is Trout's drastically reduced strikeout rate--31 games, 16 K (against 31 BB)--an early-season fluke or a conscious change in his approach?

clemenza, Tuesday, 7 May 2019 12:23 (nine months ago) link

...or a conscious change in opposing pitchers' approach? He's on track to log 33 IBB's this season (previous high 25).

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 7 May 2019 13:25 (nine months ago) link

Is Trout's drastically reduced strikeout rate--31 games, 16 K (against 31 BB)--an early-season fluke or a conscious change in his approach?

― clemenza, Tuesday, May 7, 2019 8:23 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

honestly haven’t watched much of him this year but he struck out like twice in his first dozen or so games, so I’d bet he’s regressing back to near his normal mean

k3vin k., Tuesday, 7 May 2019 17:01 (nine months ago) link

four weeks pass...

attack trout on the outside outside outside corner, it’s the only way

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 16:44 (eight months ago) link

it’s cool that he makes contact with 100% of the pitches thrown at his face

k3vin k., Tuesday, 4 June 2019 17:21 (eight months ago) link

great article btw, don’t think I recognize the writer

k3vin k., Tuesday, 4 June 2019 18:39 (eight months ago) link

two weeks pass...

Ben Lindbergh:

Because he’s stopped swinging at the toughest pitches to hit but still attacks the fat ones—Baseball Savant says he’s swung at 80 percent of deliveries down the middle, his highest rate in the five-season Statcast era—Trout has also kept increasing his contact rates to new seasonal highs, even as the league’s contact rate has continued to decline.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2019/6/21/18700398/mike-trout-los-angeles-angels-playoffs-war-mediocrity-500-record

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 June 2019 20:30 (eight months ago) link

this fucking guy.

― mookieproof, Sunday, September 2, 2012 4:09 PM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

omar little, Monday, 8 July 2019 00:31 (seven months ago) link

Having a huge game.

clemenza, Saturday, 13 July 2019 04:22 (seven months ago) link

While wearing Tyler Skaggs’ #45, Mike Trout hits a 454 foot home run pic.twitter.com/nsjJicTKLu

— Baseball Quotes (@BaseballQuotes1) July 13, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 13 July 2019 05:28 (seven months ago) link

I somehow managed not to notice anything else about the game while posting about Trout.

clemenza, Saturday, 13 July 2019 06:17 (seven months ago) link

that was quite the performance.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 13 July 2019 06:52 (seven months ago) link

Temporarily joining Ruth, Bonds, Greenberg, Foxx, Williams, Gehrig, Hornsby in the 1.000 OPS club.

Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 18:00 (seven months ago) link

I noticed that too the other day. I don't think it'll be that temporary, though, if you look at his career progression (new career highs four years running)--I could see him still being there three years from now.

clemenza, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 18:37 (seven months ago) link

Another way, I guess, of saying he'll breeze right past the notion of peaking at 27. Of course, I guessed wrong with Pujols when he headed over to the Angels.

clemenza, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 18:39 (seven months ago) link

Pujols was already having tons of problems with his foot before he left the Cardinals, even, and was much less of a complete, well-rounded player than Trout is. I wouldn't make any bets on Trout putting up 1.000 OPS in a few years, but he seems like he has a much better chance of it than anyone

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 18:50 (seven months ago) link

also he has the advantage of a juiced ball

mookieproof, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 19:04 (seven months ago) link

An oddity, looking at his career box: his seasonal high in total bases is 339, which I'm willing to bet would be the lowest mark if you looked at the 50 greatest hitters ever as measured by OPS+ or whatever you want. This is in no way a knock--it can easily be explained by all the walks he takes and the time he's lost to injuries. Just a quirk of the numbers.

clemenza, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 19:07 (seven months ago) link

(Oh--and if you eliminate people like Dave Orr, because I've never heard of him.)

clemenza, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 19:08 (seven months ago) link

Didn't have to look far for another walking-machine with fewer: Votto.

clemenza, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 19:10 (seven months ago) link

is it too late to make a bet with you, though? ;)

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 19:10 (seven months ago) link

keep in mind i only bet with space bux

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 19:11 (seven months ago) link

I have already plowed through over $40 billion in my off-the-cuff I'd-be-willing-to-bet posts.

clemenza, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 19:17 (seven months ago) link

Apart first half of Bonds’ career, Trout is the only one who is a legit great a defensive player in that list. Makes u think.

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 17 July 2019 01:01 (seven months ago) link

Forgot Hornsby yikes!

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 17 July 2019 01:03 (seven months ago) link

i suspect ruth's pitching was more valuable than hornsby's defense

mookieproof, Wednesday, 17 July 2019 01:14 (seven months ago) link

Hitting and pitching didn’t happen much at the same time that being said (iirc)

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 17 July 2019 02:26 (seven months ago) link

Within 0.1 of Bellinger on Baseball Reference's WAR leader board. I know the season doesn't really start for some until he takes over the #1 spot, so Opening Day is imminent.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2019-batting-leaders.shtml

clemenza, Sunday, 28 July 2019 14:28 (six months ago) link

happy 28th

1173 G, 1301 H, 278 HR, 198 SB, .306/.419/.582, 176 OPS+, 71.7 bWAR, 72.9 fWAR

mookieproof, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 13:15 (six months ago) link

Penciled him in for 12 more HR this year and tried the Favourite Toy calculator: 14% chance at 763 HR. Which is probably a little light, seeing as his HR rate may continue to climb for another two or three seasons.

clemenza, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 13:47 (six months ago) link

Mike Trout is now tied with Derek Jeter in career WAR via both FanGraphs and Baseball Reference. pic.twitter.com/OC6vat7vQY

— Lindsey Adler (@lindseyadler) August 18, 2019

mookieproof, Sunday, 18 August 2019 22:52 (six months ago) link

Mike Trout just hit a baseball so far that Fox Sports West had the home run graphic up before the ball even landed. pic.twitter.com/dgSw1xALT6

— Fabian Ardaya (@FabianArdaya) September 4, 2019

mookieproof, Wednesday, 4 September 2019 02:24 (five months ago) link

.@MikeTrout, BIG FLY. 😱 pic.twitter.com/aWex1Ximr5

— MLB (@MLB) September 5, 2019

mookieproof, Thursday, 5 September 2019 20:24 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

semi-doppelganger MIKE FISH, discussed on EW podcast yesterday

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=fish--000mic

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 12:55 (three months ago) link

me: i want mike trout
mom: we have mike trout at home
at home:

I'm a board man. Board man gets paid (Will M.), Friday, 15 November 2019 02:36 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

Trevor Bauer tells me Mike Trout has an exemption from the league for therapeutic HGH for thyroid issue, and that players know this and generally don't care-- says there's a whole complicated process to qualify for such an exemption from MLB.

— Daniel Roberts (@readDanwrite) January 17, 2020


can't handle everything going on this offseason

fwiw he tweeted yesterday that he hadn't heard anything about trout specifically
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOgrTA4XsAIZkZd.jpg

℺☽⋠⏎ (✖), Friday, 17 January 2020 20:54 (one month ago) link

it'll be annoying if this ends up being a thing that follows trout everywhere

i know he had a thyroid issue before his rookie year that needed treatment, so if his exemption goes that far back i imagine it's legit and not "MLB protecting its best player"

℺☽⋠⏎ (✖), Friday, 17 January 2020 20:57 (one month ago) link

this really brings out the whole pro sports dumpster igniters

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 January 2020 21:06 (one month ago) link

Yikes. This is a chicken/egg slippery slope as PED abuse is aligned with thyroid issues, see Jason Giambi circa 2004.

Also reminscent of theories of Lance Armstrong's early career testicular cancer being a byproduct of his first doping programs and his numerous subsequent TUEs allowed as he was a survivor.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 17 January 2020 21:10 (one month ago) link

:(

stop it, world

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 17 January 2020 22:12 (one month ago) link

can’t think of a reason someone would need growth hormone for a thyroid issue...??

k3vin k., Saturday, 18 January 2020 00:24 (one month ago) link

will carroll tweeted that thyroid issues aren't even covered by TUEs

bauer's friend tweeted this and then deleted both tweets:

Update: Bauer now, through his P.R. people, tells us that he said or meant to say that "IF" Trout has this exemption, he has a league-approved medical exemption. Bauer clarifies that he doesn't know whether Trout has one or not.

and then:

MLB and the MLBPA jointly released the following statement saying no player has ever received an exception for HGH under the current program.

Basically, statements about Mike Trout using HGH and having an exemption for it are false. pic.twitter.com/EaND5zfC1n

— Kyle Glaser (@KyleAGlaser) January 17, 2020

℺☽⋠⏎ (✖), Saturday, 18 January 2020 01:24 (one month ago) link

Lol I think he was maybe just repeating something that Scott Brosius’ kid tweeted yesterday.

omar little, Saturday, 18 January 2020 01:33 (one month ago) link

dang, didn't baseball twitter just get sonned by someone claiming to be beltran's niece, like yesterday?

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Saturday, 18 January 2020 01:46 (one month ago) link

yo is it true baseball twitter got sonned by a alleged burner account after a mlb beef??????

Andy K, Saturday, 18 January 2020 02:47 (one month ago) link

beltran's niece actually turned out to be the burner of annoying twitter person IncarceratedBob

do keep up everyone, this is all very important

℺☽⋠⏎ (✖), Saturday, 18 January 2020 03:48 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

One of the cooler things Mike Trout does every year: instead of having his Millville HS number retired, he comes back and gives it to the new captains every year. https://t.co/iNbhQOqIMA

— Fabian Ardaya (@FabianArdaya) February 6, 2020

mookieproof, Thursday, 6 February 2020 20:59 (two weeks ago) link


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