The White Sox thread

but having said that i don't see this team losing the al central race. if the sox can add a quality arm to the rotation (and at this point adding even a middling veteran who knows how to pitch would be an upgrade) i think they can stave off minnesota. should be an interesting summer.

Also, wtf is up with TBS not broadcasting Sox v. Braves last Sunday?

misinterpreting what a woman is saying is so unlike me. i don't follow the chisox nearly as closely as i do the bosox but my current location makes it hard to avoid coverage of the southsiders and i get a weird vibe from the team. maybe it was some of ozzie's early season decisions that have me spooked or maybe it's the white knuckles that billy koch induces (ala d-lowe in his last year as a closer) but i get the same feeling i got from the bosox of 2001. chisox pitching is way better than boston's that year and the al central doesn't have the yankees so i think they should be alright.

i am glad to see paul konerko playing well this year, i wasn't sure what was wrong with him last year but i'm happy it's not permanent.

lotta good that does for us basic cable proles.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5908

We've had a lot of posts on this thread and no mention of El Caballo's 28 game hit streak! Look out Joe D!

Also, Shingo made the Marlins look foolish last night. I don't know how long he can keep fooling people, but so far so good; he should have been made closer a long time ago, dammit. If the Sox end up finishing 2nd in the central by one or two of the games blown by Koch, I will scream. ANd throw things.

The Twins did it again last night, scored three in the last two innings and then won it in the 11th against the Expos.

Twins win on foul home run

June 17, 2004
Frank Robinson cried foul -- with good reason.

The Montreal manager was irate Wednesday night after Luis Rivas' 11th-inning drive down the left-field line was called fair for a home run, sending the visiting Minnesota Twins to a 5-4 victory over the Expos.

Television replays clearly showed the ball hooked foul in front of the net that serves as a foul pole at Olympic Stadium, but third base umpire Brian O'Nora signaled fair. The rest of his crew conferred, then let the ruling stand.

i don't get how the sox are scoring all these runs though. i guess most everyone is offensively a plus at their position, with a couple plus pluses thrown in. except crede, that guy blows.

business as usual on the South Side, in other words.

Ok, that's not entirely true; the emergence of Uribe and Harris at the top of the order (the latter especially - TOTALLY unexpected, in my case anyway), and their impressive OBP numbers, helps counteract the rest of the homer-happy lineup.

But seriously, Buehrle needs to stop this "OK, I will SUCK for the first two innings and then settle down" crap. For real. I'm getting REAL SICK of the routine, Mark.

And, if you'll recall, Reinsy was also one of the owners who decried the escalation of player salaries, yet he had no problem in signing Albert Belle to the most lucrative contract to date in '96.

Of course, Jordan did greatly upstage the Sox when they did make the playoffs with his first retirement.

Chicago sports team owners are all evil and it is hard to say which ones are the worse. All I have to say is whoever opproved the design for the remodeling of Soldier Field needs to be taken out and shot at sunrise, that thing is an abombination and has completely ruined a historic stadium.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240619120

No wonder I didn't know who Shingo was, ESPN doesn't even have a profile up yet.

Sox got some problems.

speaking of devilish smiles did anyone see the pic of jack ryan on the front page of the tribune yesterday? the only things he was missing were the horns, tail, and pitchfork.

Last I checked, Walt Harris was leaving worn jocks all over Soldier Field while a cornerback for Da Bears. Willie Harris has been getting platooned for both Rowand in CF and Uribe at 2B, and so far it hasn't hurt the Sox too much.

This week's series against the Twins is going smoothly; Buehrle was like butter last night and Freddy Garcia did OK in his first start in a Sox uni -- if Jose Valentin doesn't blow a possible double play ball, the score ends up being 9-4 Sox. Shingo gave up his first run in over 26 IP tonight, on a pounded Joe Mauer dinger.

Sox are currently up 1 game on the Twins, so no complaints here...

Ouch...should of had him on the bench for my fantasy team.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Broheems and I were like "What's up with the gong?" when we first heard it.

loaiza, meanwhile, is a shitty pitcher.

though i did hear some guy on FSN saying this trade is a sign that the white sox are "waving the white flag in the AL central". uh...who pays these people?

What did they give up, Diaz and Anderson?

This team is a joke.

http://i.cnn.net/si/pr/video/sports/2003/01/15/sox_colon.jpg

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/graves/grave_lukeappling.jpg

I saw that game where Fox continually creamed themselves over Jose's family's arrival, and if the Mets had been smart enough not to swing when he couldn't find the fucking plate, he would've lost instead of "dominating."

Buh-bye Schoney? Mike Jackson?

Old boy was like 74 when he hit that one!

Old boy was 75 when he hit that jack!

Oh come on now, that's unfair. Just because the guy gave up 9 earned in 2 innings pitched to the KANSAS CITY ROYALS? Give the guy a break. That was a gutty performance, he toughed it out.

Fucking garbage, this team.

That's the frickin' nadir. In 12+ years of following this team, THAT is the nadir. Just abject wretchedness.

"The Chicago White Sox are the chain restaurant of baseball. They are, by definition, white, the absence of color. Their ballpark does not signify architecturally. They have been overwhelmingly right-handed for years. They have not won a World Series since Woodrow Wilson was in the White House. They do not provide free breadsticks. Unlike the rest of us casual diners, Chicagoans have an alternative."

I'm sure the non-white players on the team would be happy to read this.

Also anyone plugging the Cubs as the alternative to the Sox because the Sox haven't won the WS since forever need to like, get real.

i'm can't tell if hstencil is kidding or not.

Jose Valentin (S) (current), Ray Durham (S) (2002), Robin Ventura (L)(1998), Harold Baines (L) (1997), Tim Raines (S) (1992)

Also notable: a half-year of Kenny Lofton; dicking around / getting dicked by D'Angelo Jimenez; Ozzie Guillen (cough cough)

Anyway, put a fork in the palehose.

"Last night John McEnroe's on MSNBC was a repeat from during the Democratic National Convention. It had a piece in which John Cusack interviewed Barack Obama. At the end Cusack made a point of saying that both he and Obama are Chicagoans. "But," said Obama, "you are a Cubs fan and I'm a White Sox fan. Go Sox."

"The comments he made, I think they were unprofessional, because I was doing my job.... The only reason I did it is because he would do the same if he was on my side. And I didn't make it a big deal because it was Mr. Wetteland coaching first base. If it was somebody else coaching first, I will make a big deal about it because that's the rules. I think you can call up people to be on your coaching staff, but you can't have them on the field."
--Ozzie Guillen, White Sox manager, on Buck Showalter's Thursday post-game comments, which questioned Guillen's knowledge of MLB's coaching rules (Daily Southtown)

"Even after the game, I forgot about it. Now all a sudden they come up with his comments and I think it's unprofessional. But when the 'best manager' in the history of baseball talks about you, that means you're on somebody's mind. And when you're beating the crap out of the best manager in baseball, and we beat the (bleep) out of them, it makes me feel a lot better."
--Guillen, on Showalter's comments

"To me, I think [Atlanta skipper] Bobby Cox was the best.... To compete against the guy [Showalter] that invented baseball, and beat him, that's something you should feel good about as a rookie manager."
--Guillen, on Showalter

"I could have made a big deal about it, but I was professional enough because I respect the guy that was coaching first base.... Wetteland did something in the big leagues. [Showalter] never even smelled a jock in the big leagues. He didn't even know how the clubhouse in the big leagues was when he got his first job...'Mr. Baseball' never even got a hit in Triple-A. He was a backup catcher or a first baseman all his career. Now all of the sudden he's the best ever in baseball."
--Guillen

"He told somebody he didn't like me because I have too much fun in baseball. I have fun in baseball because I was good playing this game. And I made a lot of money playing this game...something he never did. And I have a championship ring on my finger. He made comments he's not supposed to be making about anybody."
--Guillen

"It's too bad I didn't have to go to the minor leagues to get this job like he did. I was coaching straight up in the big leagues. I was a big-league coach and I went straight to big-league manager. Ozzie Guillen had to do something to take those steps. I only played two, three years in the minor leagues and played 14 years with the same team."
--Guillen

"There are so many different things he might be jealous [of]...I was a better player than him, I've got more money than him and I'm better looking than him."
--Guillen

I hadn't seen any of this. that is HILARIOUS. Classic Ozzie.

This is my favorite: To compete against the guy [Showalter] that invented baseball, and beat him, that's something you should feel good about as a rookie manager."

ANAHEIM, Calif. — Round 2 between White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen and Texas skipper Buck Showalter not only proved to be anti-climatic but also seemed to be the end of the fight.

One day after Guillen laid into Showalter because of comments the Rangers manager made following Thursday's 7-3 Sox win, both seemed to want the war of words to end Saturday.

Guillen's Friday tirade came in the aftermath of Showalter questioning Guillen's knowledge of the rules concerning replacement coaches at first or third base. Texas had received special permission from Major League Baseball to have roving pitching instructor John Wetteland take the spot of a suspended coach on Thursday, but Guillen didn't know that.

After that game, Showalter all but said that maybe Sox general manager Ken Williams should explain the rules to Guillen, and that didn't sit too well with the first-year Sox skipper when he heard those comments Friday.

Guillen blasted Showalter, calling him "Mr. Baseball," and insisting that not only was he a better player then Showalter ever was, but had, "more money than him and I'm better looking than him."

If the Sox enter '05 with no Frank and no Maggs, Ozzie may be getting his wish for a faster, less powerful team earlier than he hoped...

I was trying to figure out who the Sneliuses were, and how they got their money, and then I remembered, and I found this article. People who are born wealthy are usually tightwads, so it figures:

Paying home-age to the King
January 14, 2001
BY NEIL STEINBERG STAFF WRITER
Devotion to Elvis Presley, for most, is expressed in the form of a music collection or video library, supplemented by various posters, black velvet paintings, ceramic busts, wristwatches and official commemorative plates from the Franklin Mint.
Tom and Cindy Sanocki are going beyond that. Way beyond. On Jan. 8--on what would have been, or, to some, is, Elvis' 66th birthday--ground was broken for the couple's new Palos Heights home, a faithful $1.3 million copy of Graceland, the Memphis mansion where Elvis lived from 1959 until his death--or, if you wish, disappearance--in 1977.
Only the Sanockis' Graceland is bigger. More than twice as big.
"We're not trying to relive Elvis," said Tom Sanocki, 42. "We found his home to be a beautiful place we spend much time at, and now we have the opportunity to do it here, and bring some of that Southern hospitality up North."
The opportunity came courtesy of Cindy's parents, Alex and Ursula Snelius, who won $64 million in the Big Game lottery last September. Electing to receive their jackpot in a single $18 million payment, they promptly gave a million dollars to charity and told their four children to go out and buy or build their dream homes.
"Each one gets a house," said Alex Snelius, 64, a former truck mechanic. "That's all they get. The rest of it, they got to go to work. I started out with nothing, and I was blessed with this and wanted to buy them a home."
"My father-in-law said, `Whatever floats your boat, whatever you want to do, do,' " recalls Tom Sanocki.

http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~presley/elnews135.htm

RIP, Ursula.

I had no idea how they had achieved their wealth either. That's a great story! Thanks for posting that, Kerry. You could tell by looking at them that they seemed pretty normal, when the TV cameras would occasionally show them sitting at the games (always in the stands, never in a box.)

I had actually been thinking of using Ursula Snelius as my ILX name after I got bored with this one, no joke.

'Ursula Snellius' is so outer-space sounding.

1B - Konerko
2B - Harris(?)
SS - Uribe
3B - Crede (BREAK OUT OF IT, SON!)
LF - um...
CF - Podsednik
RF - Rowand
DH - Big Hurt
C - um...Ben Davis?

ROTATION:
Freddy G.
Mark B.
Jon G.
Jose C.
Ozzie G. (?)

surely they signed him to start not relieve, no?

and yeah, they'll probably stink. You never know. Actually the rotation could turn out to be pretty decent. We shall see.

and .... goodbye Dave Wills (longtime pre and post-game dood, die-hard Sox fan; moving on to do PBP with the D-Rays), you'll be missed.

1B - Konerko
2B - Harris / dude from Japan
SS - Uribe
3B - Crede (BREAK OUT OF IT, SON!)
LF - Rowand
CF - Podsednik
RF - Dye
DH - Big Hurt
C - AJ Melanoma

W/ the batting order looking like:

Podsednik
Uribe
Rowand
Konerko
Big Hurt
AJ
Dye
Crede
Who's on 2B

Are all their middle-order guys rightie? Again?

Complete game, three-hitter, 12 strikeouts!! ANd he's not even a strikeout pitcher. That's gotta be a career high.

Gametime: 1 hour, 40 minutes.

All three of Seattle's hits were by Ichiro. Ichiro now batting .432

"I don't think they're going to be more than Dominicans and Latin Americans; they're cheaper down there. Every time you sign a Japanese player, it's a lot of money. In the Dominican and Venezuela, you can sign them with rice and beans."
--White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen (Chicago Sun-Times)

"I'm from Latin America. The first time I signed, they signed me for like $1,000. What can I buy with $1,000 in Venezuela? Nothing."
--Guillen, who last week said 55 dollars could buy gas for a year in Venezuela

"If you sign 10, 11, 12 [Latin American] players, at least one is going to take a shot in the big leagues. Japanese rules are different. You've got to be a free agent and do all kind of different things to come to the big leagues. But when Japanese players come to the United States, they're ready to play in the big leagues."
--Guillen

"I keep saying that it's not small baseball, it's smart. That's what we're playing now. How long are we going to play like this? That's up to my players. Everybody has to be ready for the hit-and-run. Everybody has to be ready to take the extra base. It will be 162 games just like this. We might fail, but that's the way we're going to play."
--Guillen, defining the “speed and defense” makeup of the team

"Too bad the only good player from Cairo was [Robinson] and not Willie Harris. I told Willie, `What happened to you?' Jackie didn't leave anything for Willie."
--Guillen, on how White Sox infielder Willie Harris and Jackie Robinson both hailed from Cairo, Georgia (Chicago Tribune)

Apparently, he said the attendance Tuesday night was 18,000, when the attendance was in fact 27,000.

I am so sick of this shit. I really want to harpoon these motherfuckers.

"We never clicked, even when we played together," Ordonez continued on his relationship with Guillen. "I don't consider him my friend. I have nothing to say. I don't want to see him. I don't want to talk to him. He's my enemy. Even if he talks to me and tries to apologize, I won't accept it."

link

Playing out of their mind right now! It's a beautiful thing. Of course they got pretty lucky too. No way in heck did they deserve to win that Contreras game, and as far as Hernandez is concerned, I've never heard of a pitcher putting 11 on base in 6 without giving up a run!! Insanity. The stars are aligning, my White Sox brethren and sistren.

How about Garland last night? Could he finally have it all together??

and now we get to beat up on Kansas City for a while!

He's a piece of [bleep]," Guillen told Sox beat writers after learning of Ordonez's contempt for Guillen and alleging his manager steered him away from the Sox and to Detroit.

"He's a [bleep], that's what he is," Guillen continued. "He's another Venezuelan [bleep]. [Bleep] him.

"He has an enemy. Now he has a big one. He knows I can [bleep] him a lot of different ways. He better shut the [bleep] up and play for the Detroit Tigers."

bleep

(This would not have had to happen had I not gambled on Russell Branyan and dropped Chad Tracy. Fuck.)

I shudder to think how Ozzie wants to BLEEP Magglio.

Podzilla with 9 SBs already, Crede catching up with Ichiro in BA.

Unreal.

If they can get through tomorrow -- el Duque should be able to beat KC, knock on wood -- it's back to Buehrle for the Oakland series. Wow. This team is rocking and rolling right now.

I can't believe Willsy isn't here to experience this! We miss you Dave! It's not the same without you!!!

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/2004/09/26/A5DeNhbX.jpg

http://baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=117

Basically, they don't get on base and the pitchers aren't going to have a 2 ERA all year.

- team OBP hovering around 300?
- 9-1 in one-run games?
- team ERA around 2.00?

Egads!

I say a definitive, discussion-closing DUD.

Please get some god damned offense. This is getting ridiculous.

Sincerely,

The man who took Zach Greinke in the sixth round of the fantasy draft and has nothing to show for it.

What is it now, 7 in a row? Still waiting for that choke....

Considering Dye and Konerko are still below .200 and Iguchi is the only starter above .300, AND the Big Hurt still hasn't played one out this year, all of the above hosannas are v. well deserved.

and the Hawkaroo was back, rocking the eyepatch! Momus has nothing on the Hawk.

And yeah, Sammy's timing on his foot seems a bit curious. He's pussing out.

Views: Buehrle's won five of his seven starts and he's yielding a 3.78 ERA with a 1.09 WHIP. In combo leagues, because of a freak incident to his foot this spring, which turned out to be nothing, you were likely to get him later than normal at the draft. He's paying off big dividends.

two all-* starting pitchers? witha Jon G as starter? can a chicagoan dream? Ok so we've got maddux and glavine, but where the hell is our Smoltz? Fredy Garcia what is your damage?? can Damaso Marte (my guy!!) stop losing games for the guys? A.J. Pierzysnki is a cancer NOT!

Good guys wear black!

On this board, you might have some trouble getting people to agree with this statement.

I just took that as being understood, as there's no other way to love it. boring things are ok. boring gets a bad rap.

"I didn't like what they did to that young pitcher, whatshisname, sending him up against Texas. That was stupid. That was terrible."
--Chicago mayor Richard M. Daley, on the White Sox starting prospect Brandon McCarthy against Texas (Chicago Sun-Times)

"I wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole."
--A spokeswoman for the White Sox, when asked for a comment on Daley’s remarks

"Well, everybody has their own opinion. I think I've been criticized by so many people it doesn't shock me."
--White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, on Daley’s comments

"Well there is a thing I would say to the mayor. I would say I've been in this country for 25 years and I don't have American citizenship. He should help me do that. I'll criticize him because they don't give me American citizenship."
--Guillen

WTF is up with this pic, tho?

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/images/team/broadcasters/broadcaster_atl_paciorek.jpg

The same could be said about football.

American football, off the top of my head, has about twice as much time where literally no playing at all is happening -- i.e. people walking around, the referees placing the ball, players being substituted in and out, the "huddle" -- than time where the ball is actually in play. With baseball, even the moments where the pitcher is tugging at the brim of his cap and trying to figure out what to throw next is potentially a moment that a baserunner could run off to second base. It doesn't mean you have to like it, of course.

xpost yeah my friends would say how boring soccer is, and I think that's being narrow-minded and equating scoring with excitement. Americans want results!

MERCY.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/multimedia/tp_archive.jsp?c_id=cws&ym=200506

it's nice to be on the good end of AJP's bat after years of despising him and his Sox-killing ways. between last night and Thursday's win over the D-Backs, it's been a helluva week. the Flubs getting flat-out embarassed over three games in the Bronx is just the icing on the cake.

hey, also, check your email BBT...

When you include pitchers, Podsednik is 13th on the *team* in VORP, behind Neal Cotts. Rickey he's not.

does that make sense?

VORP should take SBs into account, btw. (but 38/47 /= 11/14!!!!! there's a big cumulative effect there.)

One idea that occured to me is that if a SABR formula could factor SBs into SLG (ie, bases per AB), that may add a proper contextual weighting adjustment. Then again, I just ate lunch and am a little lightheaded from climbing the 10 flights of stairs just now.

it's strange to think that if Podsednik wasn't a SB threat at all, but he had an additional 29 "bases" because of extra base hits (bases that would be taken into account via slugging %), his OBPS would be higher and he wouldn't be called overrated, really.

but RBI are just a counting stat anyway!! xpost

>(but 38/47 /= 11/14!!!!! there's a big cumulative effect there)

Barry B can clarify this one, but as far as I understand the concept, no. The principle being that the 6 extra CS hurt the Sox about as much as the 27 extra SB help them (depending on the specific situations).

2005
38 SB - 9 CS = net 29 SB
BA .287
OBP .363
SLG .336
OPS .699

2005 Adjusted Slugging
AB 244
H+ netSB = 70 + 29 = 99
2B = 12*2 = 24
3B = 0
HR = 0

Adjusted Slugging:
Adjusted Total Bases = 123 / 244 AB = .504

Adjusted stats:
BA .287
OBP .363
adjSLG .504
adjOPS .867

'Gax I think you are still lightheaded, cuz a guy's SBs don't advance guys ahead of him on the bases, just himself. I see what you're trying to do, but it's still overrating the running game, I think.

I thought a quick & dirty way to calc this stuff is to count a CS as -2 SB, or more? & break even stealing percentage = 70%, right? For Pod's SB success to truly mitigate his Woemackian lack of powah, he'd probably have to be around 92%*, and run A LOT.

*percentage courtesy of my ass

morbius, that's completely counter-intuitive . podsednik steals at an excellent clip (80%). well above the break-even point. the more bases you steal above the 70% (or whatever) mark, the more you're helping your team. what you seem to be suggesting is that no one should ever steal unless they never get caught.

gear - vorp & eqa both take SBs into account. they don't evaluate each one individually, although i think it would be interesting if someone did develop a system that leveraged every hit, out, stolen base, etc over the course of a season.

Situation-neutral calculations have shown that the cost of a CS is about twice the benefit of a SB. Basically, giving up the out is twice as bad as the benefit gained by stealing the base.

38/47 translates to 38*1 - 9*2 = 20 "bases"
11/14 is 11*1 - 3*2 = 5 "bases"

So, Podsednik still comes out on top. However, the numbers wouldn't have to be tweaked too much for them to even out ... for instance, 37/49 and 15/17 are more or less even, and if Podsednik was 37/49 instead of 38/47, then most of his boosters would be singing the same song.

The real problem with somebody like Pods is that his OBP is too low to give much credence to the supposed benefit of stealing all of those bases. It was the same thing with Tony Womack when he played for Arizona, people claimed that he was "energizing the lineup" with a .300 OBP, which is BS. The "he's getting into scoring position" argument is weak when you're the leadoff guy and you're only scoring 80 - 85 runs in a year.

In fact, if you look at Womack's career numbers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/womacto01.shtml), his runs scored are completely uncorrelated with his SB's (despite very good SB %ages every year), and are strongly correlated with his OBP.

I guess the numbers crunched re: the chances of scoring runs based on baserunners & outs show that the gains in production from a running moving one base on a steal aren't worth downside of possibly losing that runner, unless absolutely necessary (cf. bottom of the 9th / extra inning type of situations).

[xpost]

Actually, Pod's OBP this year's a respectable (tho probably not lead-off worthy) .360, isn't it?

xpost

i don't see how anyone can conclude that! a beltran/podsednik type shd clearly be given the green light just about always, since the averages will almost always work in your favor in the end. the #'s clearly state that anything above the magic % is adding runs. er don't they?

John, how'd I dispute the basic break-even view? Except I think it's closer to 75% -- that's when you START helping your team. In other words even a GOOD clip like Podsednik's, or an EXCELLENT one like Carlos Beltran's career rate, doesn't help AS MUCH as the MSM would like us to think. If you wanna be an offensive force, start bangin'! As DR said, gimme a leadoff/on-base guy with some pop like prime Rickey, or Damon.

There's a quote in the Alan Schwarz book which has the nascent Bill James muttering over one of Rickey's flashier SB years (before his pct rose), "Four extra runs a year and they wanna make him the MVP."

Yes, .363 is good (still only 51st in MLB), but you're right in that his complete lack of power is an equally big whammy in this case -- considering OPS instead (as with Womack as per my comment above) is more telling.

1) During the two hour rain-delay, they were broadcasting other games on the centerfield scoreboard. At one point, they threw on the end of the Marlins/Brewers game. When Carlos Lee came up to bat in i guess it was the 8th, the scoreboard operator kept playing that galloping-horse sound effect that they always played when he was with the Sox. Nice.

2) Some guy wearing an official Marlins jersey who had the name Bartman stitched on the back. Too funny. I wish I had brought my camera.

3) exploring the "Fundamentals" area during the rain delay. First chance I'd had to check it out. Very, very cool.

3) JD's grand salami.

Least fave:

1) Cutting beers sales off in the 4th. Boo!

If they are serious about winning it all this year, I think they might have to make this move. It isn't like they would have to give up much, as I think the Reds would be happy to be free of his contract for next year (which I think is the last year of his mega deal).

Even if Griff only has one year left on his contract, I bet it is for somewhere between 12-14 million bucks. It is still a good size hunk of change for one season. I'd imagine there is more leeway in the Sox budget these days in comparison to the Yanks. Maybe I am wrong, but I have to figure the NYY are about topped out on salary.

back to CWS content: how hot is the closer seat?

And, yeah, Herm is the go-to-guy, except when he can't be gotten to because of some serious back issues that (from what I heard) would've been operated on were it not for the ChiSox doing so well.

"It's ignorant. It's just ignorant. You have someone dealing with the media, dealing with people, to say something like that, that's ignorant, man."
--Guillen

"Hey, everybody, this guy's a homosexual! He’s a child molester!"
--Guillen, in jest, harassing a clubhouse passerby just moments later

Here is what apparently transpired, with a helping of innuendo and a barely veiled threat to Ozzie to "keep his mouth shut" (hard to read the thing as anything but racist).

But what Guillen said last night falls into an entirely different category. No more than a minute after the pens stopped scribbling his comments about Krueger, Guillen recognized a man standing outside the White Sox dugout. He smiled and waved. Then he addressed his adoring audience.

"Hey, everybody, this guy's a homosexual!" Guillen shouted. "He's a child molester!"

The man being so addressed took no apparent offense. The two men hugged and laughed. But the feeling that lingered was of a comedian who had remained on stage for one joke too many. The juxtaposition of righteous indignation followed almost immediately by incredible insensitivity would actually have been funny if it had not been so uncomfortable. And hypocritical, not to mention offensive."

The article contradicts itself, first of all. Guillen is saying that the same guy he hugged - a friend, obviously is "a homosexual and child molester." Well, why would he say an awful, "offensive" thing like that about his friend? You don't think he's mocking the media and the tabloid tactics they use against players and managers, do you? No, that couldn't be. I mean, that just isn't done, so what we have to do is take his quotes out of context and put an entirely ridiculous spin on them, spicing the whole thing with a veiled threat to Ozzie to "keep his mouth shut".....or what, Mr. Matthews? You'll see to it that more garbage gets printed about him?

This had nothing to do with homosexuality, "codes of culture" or whatever, and the writer knows that. It had everything to do with the veiled threats and innuendo made by some people in the media. Guillen's mouth is "his own worst enemy" only if the media decide to make it so. Typical New York attitude: "it IS so if I merely SAY it's so". Sorry, but I'm not offended. I guess that makes the writer's take on it entirely subjective, as hard as it may be for him to swallow.

ihttp://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spwally094376867aug09,0,3553996.story

panic on the streets of chitown?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg181.html

Rally panties?

This behavior came to mind Sunday, when White Sox outfielder Timo Perez went to unusual lengths to try to help the team end a season-worst seven-game losing streak.

Perez decided to hang a pair of women's black panties--"extra wide" black panties--in the Sox's clubhouse at U.S. Cellular Field. The Sox went out and ended their streak with a 6-2 victory over the Yankees.

Perez wasn't around to discuss the, well . . . unmentionables, but teammate Aaron Rowand did.

"We had the `Rally Panties' up today," Rowand said. "A woman's undergarment--a large undergarment--was our rallying flag."

So while the Angels had their "Rally Monkey" in their 2002 World Series championship season, the innovative Sox offer up "Rally Panties." Whatever works, I suppose.

Rowand said he would have chosen a less titillating tactic to end the losing streak. "I almost changed the CD in my car on the way to the ballpark, but I decided not to," he said.

The pitching is still solid (3rd in MLB ERA), but Garland and Buerhle have dropped off from their strong first halves, and Garcia's been a bit inconsistent. To get all Bill Simmons for a moment: if your life depended on it, would YOU want Dustin Hermanson closing out Game 5 of the ALDS? LA and Oakland have a better front three right now, and that's crucial in the playoffs, particularly in the first round when you only need three starters. Boston (if Schilling pitches well) and arguably Cleveland also have starting pitching from their front three right now.

And don't forget about El Duque's skidmarkery. And Contreras isn't all that reliable either - he's been godlike this month (aside from an average WHIP), but his July and June look REAL scary. Also: the team OBP of .320 is only better than the M's and the Royales, and tied w/ the Pierats.

His WHIP is 1.09 this year. That ranks 7th in MLB behind Rivera, Wagner, Guardado, Todd Jones, Huston Street, and Chad Cordero for all MLB closers. His ERA is also 7th in MLB for all closers at 1.76.

Up until he was overused with SF last year he was a more than servicable closer saving 16 games in 2 months of August and September with a WHIP of 1.14 and an ERA of 3.20.

His starts in early 2004 and fatigue (he pitched 9 straight games in Sept/Oct 2004) in the 2nd half masks his value as a closer.

(xpost)

however hermanson is certainly a good example of how easy it can be to manufacture a closer. he could definitely be 'serviceable' (a 3-somthing era doesn't seem at all out of the question), but he's even more definitely not a great reliever.

Dustan Hermanson is as good of a closer as Dontrelle Willis is as a starter.

I might even venture to say "better", but I'll just leave them as equal entities and let John go on a posting frenzy for a few hours until I come back.

hahahahah ahahahahhah ahahahh hahahahahaha hahahah hahahahah hahaha

Please see what Victor Martinez & Grady Sizemore have done since May. Also of note: Coco Crisp's May, June, and August. (Please note that I have more faith in the first two than the 3rd.)

DONG DONG DONG. Given D-Train's year, a closer would have to be like prime Eckersley or Gagne or Mariano to even be thought of as equal, especially given the number of innings they DON'T pitch in comparison to a 200ish IP starter guy of the Train Version 2K5's caliber. And, like John D ably showed, Herm is not even close - being a high-rent Kolb gets you as far as the Brave doghouse. And getting on yr anti-Dontrelle hobby horse to bloviate like that is the stuff of internet board asshattery. Of course, so is responding to said asshattery, so, um, well played and kudos.

I don't understand the 'Chisox out in the LDS' chorus ... sure it could happen, but as likely not. Weren't the 116-win Mariners relatively hot going into October? Weren't some of those Atlanta teams? As far as I know, no factors correlate especially well with postseason success, be it killer offense, late-season streaks, Joe Morgan's "veteran emotion" etc. I know Neyer wrote a column suggesting the Sox could do well in October recently, I think the gist was front-line pitching.

Hermanson leads the AL in Relievers Expected Wins Added:

http://baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/?report=52

now bear with me while i gently remove this hook from my mouth & spit out your little worm.

(haha it was getting to you too dave!)

Hermanson is 32, hardly washed up.

Hermanson is one of the 7 most effective closers in the game this season, could the same be said of Willis of MLB starters? Of NL starters?

Why should a closer NEED to be a strikeout pitcher? That makes no sense.

closer:K::batter:HR?

As far as Willis goes, his stats say that he has been somewhere between the 5th and 15th best starting pitcher in baseball by virtually any measure:

2.67 ERA (7th MLB)
2.68 ERC (9th MLB)
124 k (32 MLB)
178.2 IP (7 MLB)
6 CG (tied 1 MLB)
5 SO (1 MLB)
18 QS (t 9th)
1.13 WHIP (11th MLB)
3.15 DIPS (8th MLB)
.644 Opp. OPS (14th MLB)

His strikeout stats are obviously his main drawback, but not to the point that he's hurting his team.

anyone notice that these games have turned entirely on WALKS? all of these two run shots have come on the heels of walks, as did the tribe taking the lead on monday and tying it up in the 9th last night.

I didn't get mine back until the sixth inning. Some people in the 'burbs didn't get it at all.

It's funny 'cos the game the other night topped the ratings, so I imagine that's a lot of pissed-off people. And that's not counting the games in bars.

Christina Kahrl of BP on the worst game announcers:

"Pretty much all of the legacies are terrible, Buck less than Brennaman and Chip Caray (I think Skip's graduated to a different class). But I think in a class all to himself is Hawk Harrelson, the game's worst homer, the man who would rather talk about his successes on the links than pay attention to the game, because he's lazily comfortable in his ump-baiting and unblinking, Goebbels-like boosterism."

But the level of bitchiness - to the point of obsession - is astonishing.

Goebbels-like

Jesus. And it's realllly ironic, too. I can't believe how flagrant
these people are....

Do they have the best AL team batting average? I'm too lazy to check. Anyway, they are impressive. As a baseball fan, sure, I love the team. totally awesome what they are doing right now.

as pessimistic by nature as I am, tho, not ready to concede the central, I'm really not. McCarthy was amazing tonight. Again. Fucking Ozzie. fucking fucking Ozzie. Sticking with that piece o'crap for two games. If it comes down to the Sox losing by one or two games, all we have to do as Sox fans is point the finger directly at our Venezeulan friend for marching his garbage-ass Cuban friend out there when his garbage-ass Cuban friend didn't have SHIT in the tank. It's a disgrace.

Nice.

I had a feeling this would happen.

(ok when Crede bobbled that ball in teh 9th I had brief visions of them not making the playoffs)

I think I'd prefer to play the Yankees 1st round if it could somehow work out that way. But whatevah. let the chips fall where they may.

GO YOU WHITE SOX!!!!

http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/7/7b/200px-AndyTheClown.jpg

If the Indians don't make it, I may root for a Chisox-Padres Series.

And given the way Cabrera looked against Harris (i.e. shittay) - why in the sweet fancy depths of Hell WAS Pod doing trying to bunt?!?!

it's a picture of andy the clown, asshole.

"Now we kind of go into bars when we're as a team and try to get them to play it. We always seem to be able to finagle a way to get them to play it."
--catcher A.J. Pierzynski, on the song

"It started out as a big joke, but you (media) guys have somehow found out about it. Now it's turned into this big media thing, which kind of makes us laugh even more. Now it's even a bigger joke because everyone keeps talking about it, you see reporters on the street trying to get people to sing it. It makes it even better."
--Pierzynski

"That's manly. Journey is manly. Why is Journey not manly? I heard Joe Theismann say on the radio that Journey was his favorite group, and Theismann was pretty manly, wasn't he?"
--Pierzynski, when asked why they didn't choose a song that's more manly (MLB.com)

"Whoopee. If this were 2006 right now, today, we'd be picked second in our division and you know it. Even if we win [the Series], I'll bet we'd be picked second in our division if we brought back the same people."

I never heard the Journey news til BP ran those quotes. (I prefer Sandra Bernhard's cover of DSB.)

"I love this job. There's nothing better than eating and drinking for free in Chicago."
--White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, on the rumor that he'll retire should the White Sox win the World Series (Chicago Sun-Times)

FUNKY MOOSE 4 LIFE

http://www.ezthemes.com/previews/l/lisaderganpatio1.jpg

Anyway, congrats, Sox. This shit is over.

http://www.slate.com/id/2128744/?nav=tap3

The real gold there (last para) is that the "Highlanders"-era Yanks were also known as the Porchclimbers.

Glad he got to see the White Sox win one.

The stuff nightmares are made of. Thanks Ozz.

Throw in Widger at the plate and you've got the freakin Keystone Cops out there. sheesh. freakin Z-Team out there tonight.

Anyway, they'll be fine. Hangover city right now.

The minuses: too many to mention. Atrocious offense. Judy Garland instead of Jon. A pronounced lack of killer instinct with RISP and the game on the line.

I still say it's going to be a 2-team race with the Tribe this year, but the Sox need to shit or get off the pot fairly soon.

http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2006/4/15/181943/580

freaking unreal the moonshots he is serving up. I dunno ... it's weird, I'm not tryin to be a homey; I'm just so honestly freaked-out about the distance I am witnessing on Thome's BOMBS.....

yeah, it's making me wonder if there might be some creedence behind the juiced ball theory for this year. the thought being that since the players wouldn't be juiced the balls would be to try to minimize the difference in stats.

but juiced balls or not, those moon shots are pretty amazing.

I don't know if it was as great as watching George Mason beat UConn, but it was sure was nice.

unbelievable game by Pablo; scores GW run off the bat of Uribe.

On Tuesday to reporters, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen referred to Chicago Sun-Times columnist and Around the Horn contributor Jay Mariotti as a derogatory name for a homosexual.

Angry with a recent column by Mariotti critical of Guillen's handling of recently demoted relief pitcher Sean Tracey and upset with Mariotti with columns of the past, Guillen said to reporters when referring to Mariotti before Tuesday's game with the Cardinals, "What a piece of [expletive] he is, [expletive] fag."

"I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country."

Mariotti was covering the NBA Finals Tuesday night and was not present to hear what Guillen said.

Columnist Greg Couch of the Sun-Times wrote a column Wednesday in response, calling for commissioner Bud Selig to suspend Guillen for his use of a "hurtful homophobic" term.

Before writing the column, Couch asked Guillen for an explanation. Guillen defended his use of the term "fag" by saying this about homosexuals and the use of the word in question: "I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country.''

Guillen said that in his native Venezuela, that word is not a reference to a person's sexuality, but to his courage. He said he was saying that Mariotti is "not man enough to meet me and talk about [things before writing].''

Guillen also told Couch that he has gay friends, attends WNBA games, went to a Madonna concert and plans to go to the Gay Games in Chicago.

"I called that of this man [Mariotti],'' he told Couch. "I'm not trying to hurt anybody [else]."

Scott Reifert, the White Sox's vice president of communications, offered to apologize on behalf of the organization when approached by Couch.

"To anybody who was insulted or hurt by that comment ... as an organization, we'll certainly apologize," Reifert told Couch.

?!!?!?

In the third, every member of the Sox lineup got a hit in the inning (a couple had two IIRC.) Has that ever happened before?

HAHAHA WHAT? god i love ozzie. also, if you're gonna call someone a fag, it might as well be Jay Mariotti.

Anyway, does mlb have a consistent policy on such statements? Like, say you had Italian teammates but openly refused to eat pizza or pasta in front of them because your family was 'boycotting' Italian food? How is THAT not equally bigoted?

What wd OG's suspension be if he had called that writer a pussy?

Prior to this evening’s Cards/White Sox contest, the recently chastised Ozzie Guillen was asked by Comcast Chicago what he thought his sensitivity training would be like.

“I’ll probably have to sit with Joey Cora for a couple of hours,” laughed Guillen.

Putting a healthy Thome in the middle of that lineup is just sick. It is a bit like when Ortiz took off in Boston a few years ago, they couldn't pitch around Manny anymore and it seemed the whole lineup improved. The White Sox were a good hitting lineup last year, but now they are a great hitting team.

I will be in Chicago next weekend and at the Monday, July 3 game vs. the Orioles. We are in Section 527 (thank you, StubHub). If Stormy or any other ILBBers will be there, email me, and would love to say hi before the fireworks.

love teh tagutchi.

This weekend was ridiculous.

http://secure.juxtapoz.com/images/items/lg202.jpg

http://www.westernaires.org/Pictures/Horses/charo.jpg

Sheesh. I have shit to do...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260723104

"They think I cheat? We faced two [expletive] good pitchers in the National League Central. Our division, they have to face [the Tigers' starting staff], then you go to the White Sox and face all our guys? When you're going to go to another team, you're going to go, 'Whew, where is Randy Johnson?' The American League Central? That's baseball right here. Go hard one after another."
--Guillen

"Good, I hope [they keep accusing us]. What happened in the playoffs and World Series? We won 1-0, 2-1. We won so many one-run games, more than anyone in baseball last year. You look at our No. 3, 4 and 5 [hitters], they are the best in baseball. If we're cheating, how come we [don't] help Brian Anderson or [Juan] Uribe?"
--Guillen

"We're cheating on the mound? Our pitching staff gets beat up once in awhile. They're mad. They can't admit that a Latino kicked their ass."
--Guillen

"That's why I love the guy next door. He doesn't give a [expletive]. He doesn't worry about this and that. You win, you kicked our butt. When they clinched in 2004, I was the first one to go over there and congratulate them because they beat us."
--Guillen, on Twins manager Ron Gardenhire

"'Oh, no, I don't like you because you kicked my ass?' Please. That's competition."
--Guillen

"That's why I don't get along with too many managers. Because they hate my [expletive] ass, because I don't kiss their ass, and I didn't kiss anyone's ass to get this job."
--Guillen

"Then they have a Mexican win the World Series in two years. And they're saying he doesn't have experience, he never managed in baseball before. Well, too [expletive] bad."
--Guillen

"What's the difference? No one knows the difference anyway."
--Guillen, after being reminded that he's Venezuelan

Garland and co. give up 32 in a double header.

Buehrle gives up zero in eight innings the next day.

KEEP UP THE RESISTANCE, MR. WILLIAMS.

Four-year extension, apparently.

sucker's deal

It's better than the Burnett & Zito & Schmidt deals, tho. Which is, um, setting the bar pretty low @ this point.

During a 58-game stretch, White Sox relievers posted a 3-13 record and a 7.52 earned-run average.

“I’m not calling them losers, but they’re not ready to win,” Guillen sniffed.

“It gets to the point where you just laugh,” White Sox starter Mark Buehrle said. “Knowing Kenny, I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole bullpen goes. They need to ship some guys out soon.”

That gets a Young Jeezy "Daaaaayyyummmmmm!"

I wish someone would YouTube Uribe showing up the Tigers prior to his fly ball landing well in front of the fence for a routine out.

I loves me a classic pitchers duel, and we've got one going on, but these WGN assholes make me wanna die. Dude's extended riff on Ty Cobb's penmanship was, uh, really something.

a rematch of a pretty good pitchers duel at that!

Steve Stone in the booth with the Hawkeroo tonite! I think I could get used to this!

One minute, Guillen wondered why "people thought I was going to take my shirt off and go butt naked on Michigan Avenue" during the White Sox's victory parade, and the next, when it was suggested that Guillen leave it all and retire to his native Venezuela and get fat and happy, he scoffed.

"Because," Guillen explained, "my wife, when I have sex with her, wants to feel a good-looking man."

i was looking for the chisox thread! doesnt jenks have some impressive streak right now? does anyone care, y/n?

I wonder how many Major Leaguer father/Famous Artist son combos there have been in baseball history:

Cy Twombly

and

Cy Twombly

https://twitter.com/AndrewBurner/status/565570512131485696

these guys can hit

abreu is on a fuckin tear

luis robert is looking very good

also very sss but nick madrigal is batting .400 so far

yeah, luis robert is a future star (current star?), and great in the field too

madrigal is a tortuga-like purveyor of untrue outcomes

the harmony of lies: the nick madrigal story