shohei ohtani alert

Homered in three straight games, has an OPS of 1.310 and a FIP of 3.65.

Is he Babe Ruth? Or better, cause Ruth couldn't throw 95?

nvm just saw the other thread, y'all can lock this if you like

Source: #Angels cautiously optimistic Shohei Ohtani will play again this season — at least as a hitter and possibly in both roles. @MLB @MLBNetwork

— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) June 11, 2018

Scioscia said the Angels’ medical staff is “very optimistic” about Shohei Ohtani’s prognosis. Still two to three weeks from seeing whether PRP injection took hold. Ohtani is taking one-armed swings in batting cage.

— Bill Shaikin (@BillShaikin) June 18, 2018

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/shohei-ohtani-and-the-implications/

TS: ohtani batting with one arm vs pujols

dammit, lock thread would be nice, esp as this is the one with the spelling that aligns with the way sportswriters here spell his name

I looked up the 2 other Japanese->MLB players with "大" as the first kanji in their family name and they were split on the romanization of O- vs. Oh-:

大家友和 - Tomokazu Ohka
大塚晶則 - Akinori Otsuka

I think I wrote in the other thread, we don't romanize the characters of Osaka city as "Ohsaka".

Shohei Ohtani’s season is over. He’s having knee surgery. Didn’t see that one coming. Justin Upton was the one who had an MRI on his knee. #Angels https://t.co/VTdRtIm6g5

— Jeff Fletcher (@JeffFletcherOCR) September 12, 2019

i have that same condition, never bothered me

how's your fastball?

i threw on one of those in-stadium radar gun setups a few yrs ago & my shoulder is sore just thinking abt it

in the hulkiest shape of his life

Shohei Ohtani said he swam and shot some hoops this offseason as part of his training. pic.twitter.com/qfdID6CKzd

— Rhett Bollinger (@RhettBollinger) February 19, 2020

in case u didnt know, on mound vs Oakland now

begins 1st with a single then 3 walks

Will he get an out?

He would not.

ugh, 5 ER

the dreaded infinite (or is it undefined?) ERA

fortunately there is Trout ... 3-run bomb on a 3-0 count

Struck out Springer leading off, so he has an ERA now.

1-2-3 first! It's 45.00.

2nd inning exit :/

dip in velocity may have prompted hook

damn

42-pitch second inning -> shower -> MRI

strained something pronator, no more pitching this year

2-2, BB
4IP 1ER 2BB 5K

Something more than a trivial occurrence:

twitter.com/Angels/status/1386713631207792642

94 at eye-level

"Oh my goodness. OH MY goodness. Shohei Ohtani..." #WeBelieve pic.twitter.com/FNAcTDiXO3

— Justin Groc (@jgroc) May 18, 2021

Don’t think you’re meant to be able to do that

god I would fuckin hate pitching to that guy

whoa

So sad to think he won't make the post-season.

his velo is way way down tonight

I'm reading 89 mph fastballs?

he's throwing up to 95 now in the 4th

2 HRs tonight (Angels are down by 5)

a pittsburgher i follow drove to nyc specifically to see ohtani tonight and lol

2 more HRs tonight

I would never in a million years bet on Ohtani having the season he’s having right now.

Folks need to stop comparing Shohei Ohtani to Babe Ruth

Shohei Ohtani is the first Shohei Ohtani

Nobody’s ever done what he’s done in a half season, and it’s somehow still not getting enough media coverage https://t.co/cGY2CzpeUn

— joon 이준엽 (@joonlee) July 8, 2021

I agree that there aren't enough superlatives to describe what he's doing.

However, when it comes to Ohtani, there can never be enough comparisons to Babe Ruth. Babe f'n Ruth!!

The need for the angels to make the playoffs only grows more and more urgent

when is he a free agent? he will be an LA dodger or a boston red sock or a new york motherfucker in a couple years

yea he seems like one of those players who could singlehandedly rescue the sport but having him play on the West Coast on a team that's 4th in their division sucks. crazy if the Angels miss the playoffs yet again despite having 2 generational talents on their team

it's a team sport

which consists 95% of moments of individual skill

this is one of the hardest hit balls I've ever seen

Ohtani to the MOON. 😳 pic.twitter.com/BeZ3Ek9gF6

— MLB (@MLB) July 10, 2021

fucking absurd man

I don't know about you but I cannot see the ball post-impact with Ohtani's bat. I think he hit it so hard it disintegrated into fucking quarks.

you can just briefly see it shoot straight up, it kind of looks like the 600-foot pop up from Major League

463 feet

It feels like he should be more talked about.

Not here, but in media generally.

watching so many people discover Giannis even though he's been 2x MVP kinda tells me you need some playoff success for that to happen

Thinking about DiMaggio's streak and Richard's 50 in 50, I have the feeling we used to have national conversations about specific athlete in a way we don't anymore? Maybe I'm wrong. But it seems conversations about sports are much more macro and/or focused on the past (how much can we still create content around Michael Jordan, I'm certain more people are aware of Jeter than of Trout or Ohtani).

tom pagnozzi

haha, mais encore?

...

matt pagnozzi :(

ohtani is the first player to be named AL Player of the month in back to back months (June and July) since josh hamilton in 2012

40 HR, 2.79 ERA

Angels are still .500 though

that’s fucking crazy

this season is historic

Orange County doesn’t deserve this dude

i honestly would never have expected him to have a season like this. just did not think this was possible.

well it's never been done before!

What a joy this guy is

he's on pace to make the top 10 single season WAR list, which is basically all guys like Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds, plus those insane Yaz & Hornsby seasons

there are a bunch of guys having monster seasons and he’s 2 wins ahead of them

even though ppl, like, intuitively understand this, it's still an under discussed story that the angels have had one of the greatest baseball players in 100+ years on their team for a decade, and now have an international superstar putting up one of the greatest seasons in 100+ years... and still LITERALLY CANNOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS MORE THAN ONE TIME!!! you can make a very reasonable argument that this fact alone has contributed to baseball's decline as a national interest and cultural phenomenon. you could also make a very reasonable argument that it's in the best interest of baseball to forcibly remove arte moreno as owner and find someone who could maybe run a franchise in LA w/ 2 of the best players in baseball and get them into the playoffs, like, one time before the world implodes. it's not asking for much!

its a uniquely frustrating scenario...idk if the Angels ownership/management just sucks but I can't really point to a single thing they've done over the last decade that's worked, outside of maybe the trade for Andrelton Simmons. they also happened to grab those two players during the years where they knew Pujols was gonna be an albatross - they signed him knowing full well that they were likely going to be punting the last 4-5 years. they've also had a lot of bad luck - Trout's hurt, Rendon's hurt, they just cannot seem to develop a decent pitcher who doesn't overdose on fentanyl. its a shitty situation and I agree its bad for the game.

they give big free agent contracts to older and/or injury prone players and rarely have homegrown talent, it's a really bad mix that comes from the top down. josh hamilton contract was a disaster, rendon contract isn't looking much better. they haven't had a good pitcher since like jered weaver. it's just a poorly run franchise.

they actually have some younger talent now... jo adell has looked good recently, brandon marsh is a top 50 prospect tho he flopped after being called up. reid detmers is finally a pitching prospect they have. if they had a healthy trout, rendon, ohtani, plus a good season from adell, and made some additions, found some pitchers.... it's still so many ifs. and trout is at the point now where he's prob more of a 130-140 game player -- at best -- than a 160 or 180 game player. the fact that they're 5.5 games worse than the mariners this year is insane.

it’s a team sport

i wonder if any other team's management would have done anything differently about the "pujols problem", especially the 2017-now version of the problem. i guess it's easier said than done to bench him, because he truly always believes he's about to turn the corner and is vocal about it. i guess they just couldn't face the spectacle of releasing him years early and eating the cost?

i mean, i think the marlins would have done something drastic for some reason. and the padres. although they haven't exactly done anything about their "eric hosmer problem"

how many other teams would have even signed a stupid contract like that? I mean I guess I'll cut them some slack because 2009-2012 was like the prime era for teams giving fat contracts to fat players, despite the fact that IT HAS LITERALLY NEVER WORKED OUT A SINGLE TIME. to his credit Pujols has not been downright awful since that 2017 season but I still can't believe they didn't find some way to engineer a trade to some bad team that needs to get fans in the door. even if they had to eat like $80 mil

how many other teams would have even signed a stupid contract like that?

*stares in chris davis*

I think there are possible universes where the Chris Davis deal isn't awful, the Pujols one was just so doomed from the start. The only way it makes sense is if the Angels were a slugger away from being a championship team which they definitely were not

one that comes to mind that is definitely worse is Ryan Howard, sure it's a lot less money but also possibly the dumbest, most guaranteed-to-fail contract I've ever seen in pro sports. and it somehow turned out even worse than anyone could've imagined

Yeah, definitely universes where the Davis deal wasn't as bad as it was, not sure there are universes where it was good, I guess maybe if the Orioles don't bring in Ubaldo in the 2016 WC game and win a pennant or WC with Davis contributing before the real decline kicks in?

when the angels signed pujols he was turning 32 and had hit .328/.420/.617 over 11 seasons

when the orioles extended davis he was turning 30 and had hit .255/.330/.506 over eight seasons

the davis contract only went through his age-36 season, so that's a huge plus. but also he just wasn't that good -- and the orioles had seen how it might go in 2014 when he hit .196/.300/.404. i mean both contracts are terrible, but if you're gonna dream on a guy beating the aging curve you might as well go with the one who was the greatest hitter of his generation

yeah, davis was very much a limited skill, adam dunn* kind of player

*and wasn't nearly as consistent as adam dunn, it turns out

holy cow I had no idea Davis's OBP was only .330, yeah that contract might be worse in retrospect

i mean both contracts are terrible, but if you're gonna dream on a guy beating the aging curve you might as well go with the one who was the greatest hitter of his generation

true but I still think it was fairly unlikely that Davis would be downright unplayable for 5 years of that deal, for Pujols it feels like that was one of the most likely outcomes. I can't argue it's one of the worst contracts ever because there have been so many bad ones but none of them involve paying a guy $24 million when he's 42

shit he just got hit in the right hand by a pitch

does not look great

Shohei Ohtani is the first American League pitcher to be intentionally walked since Jim Katt in 1970

homer and two walks yesterday, but got shelled on the mound

somehow i always miss his pitching days. when he's out of the game as a pitcher, does he switch to DH, keeping his spot in the batting order and taking whoever replaced pujols out of the lineup, i guess? or do they just take him out of the game completely at that point?

they don't get a DH

although it *kind* of seems like you should be able to use the DH on a non-pitcher if you want? (you cannot, by rule)

Guess who started Ohtani in the fantasy playoffs yesterday!! :((

maddon has several times shifted ohtani to the outfield when he's done pitching, but not last night

0-5 tonight…the guy could really use some time off

Ohtani giving CPR to his dead bat pic.twitter.com/aFoZbMw4sG

— Every Shohei Ohtani Highlight (@ohtanimoments) April 12, 2022

while looking up bobby witt jr's sprint and home to first speeds to see how how fast he is (A: very fast), i unexpectedly found OHTANI at the top of the 2022 leaderboard for fastest from home to first! 4.06 seconds. i was shocked, because his sprint speed (27.6 ft/s this year, 28.8 last year)is more 70th percentile. and not a fluke, either - in 2021 ohtani ranked 5th for home to first, with 4.05 seconds.

impressive - he must kick up into his highest gear much more quickly than the competition

When he retires, if I'm still alive--50/50?--I'll think "I really didn't appreciate that guy while he was playing." Because honestly, I get a little tired of reading about his every waking movement.

He pitched great today: 7 shutout innings, 6 H/0 BB/11 K. MLB.com (not at all atypical of the way they cover him): "Stop us if you've heard this one: Shohei Ohtani did something nobody has since the Great Bambino."

What he did: "Hitting third and making his first start on the mound at Fenway Park, Ohtani became the first starting pitcher to bat in one of the top four spots in a game at the historic ballpark since Babe Ruth did so on Sept. 20, 1919."

Translation, if you feel his two-way abilities have already been duly recognized (and rewarded): "He played."

Feel like there needs to be a thread “Clemenza vs MLB.com headlines”

what about my "fastest from home to first base" tidbit, though? now THAT's what i'm talking about

First career grand slam tonight. And another HR too

all 100 of shohei ohtani’s home runs but it speeds up by 10% after each home run pic.twitter.com/l1hYPwy6eV

— Cut4 (@Cut4) May 15, 2022

A work of art

Feel like there needs to be a thread “Clemenza vs MLB.com headlines”
― Michael F Gill

Lead story right now on mlb.com, the day after the Jays beat Ohtani with five runs in six innings:

Force strong with this one

Shohei Ohtani's latest power: He doesn't need to tag you. He sends you to the dugout with his mind.

Ha!

To be fair, he still actually didn’t look bad in that start.

8 RBIs on Tuesday, then on Wednesday 8 shutout innings and 13 Ks

going to go out on a limb and say nothing like that's ever been done before

Angels only won one of those games lol

damn, 94 game score on that last start, too.

pretttty good

going to go out on a limb and say nothing like that's ever been done before

if anyone else, it was probably Ruth, and i don't think they struck out that many people back then

Absolutely unreal

A night after homering twice and setting a career-high with eight RBIs at the plate, Ohtani set another career high with 13 strikeouts over eight scoreless innings to help lift the Angels to a 5-0 win over the Royals on Wednesday night at Angel Stadium. Unsurprisingly, Ohtani, who retired 23 of the last 24 batters he faced, became the first player in AL/NL history to have at least eight RBIs in a game and strike out at least 10 batters the next day.

Never had an 8-RBI game:
 
Babe Ruth
Henry Aaron
Barry Bonds
Albert Pujols
 
Never had a 13-K game:
 
Lefty Grove
Catfish Hunter
Jack Morris
Tom Glavine
 
Ohtani did both - in consecutive days.
 
🦄

— Paul Hembekides (@PaulHembo) June 23, 2022

i am...weird not impressed at all by that list of pitchers, but for hitters, that's eye-opening.

I mean so much of that is luck - how often is a 3-4 line with 2 HRs gonna result in 8 RBIs?

exactly shohei ohtani amount of the time

xp not to mention in a loss . . . to the royals

Sorry, but a little more Shohei Derangement Syndrome on mlb.com (lead story):

Ho-hum...just a little more history for Shohei

Shohei Ohtani became the first player since the RBI became an official stat in 1920 to strike out 10 on the mound, drive in two runs and steal a base.

He also scored a run--how did they fail to mention that?

Next year the league will five extra wild cards and still Ohtani and Trout won’t make the playoffs.

I did not know he threw this hard

101.2 MPH FROM SHOHEI OHTANI!! THE HARDEST FASTBALL OF HIS MLB CAREER!!

pic.twitter.com/DHclcTxw5q

— Ben Verlander (@BenVerlander) July 23, 2022

he was really humming through 6 innings last night, then couldn’t get an out in the 7th

if we played 7-inning games that’s when the closer would come in. ~think abt it~

I never knew that--for one season, anyway--Fergie Jenkins was such a good hitter. In 1971, the year he won his Cy (and put up a 10.1 bWAR), he had a slash line of .243/.282/.478, hit six HR, and knocked in 20. There are--according to a graphic on FB today--nine pitchers with 20 wins and 20 RBI in the same season, and Jenkins is the only one later than 1948 (Bob Lemon). That'll be a hard one for Ohtani to match.

he did manage to be the first to win 10 and hit 30 HRs in the same season

i was looking at greg maddux's stats again, the other day. he only touched 20 wins twice, both in the early 90s, despite having an extraordinarily consistent, excellent career featuring a bunch of braves teams that were good throughout the 90s

ohtani has 11 stolen bases, and 9 times caught stealing this year

This is a pro-Ohtani MVP piece, making the case that WAR can't adequately capture his value:

https://www.mlb.com/news/shohei-ohtani-mvp-race-value-by-war

It does, though, in point #4, get at something I was clumsily trying to explain last year (not sure if I posted about it here; I'd talk about it with friends): that his two-wayness can also present a problem for his manager in having to make a lot of other decisions that other managers don't have to. Basically, he becomes the primary focus you have to work around at all times.

This is a small cost for a huge return--I realize that! But I think it's part of the whole picture.

I don't really get the argument. Did people say that about David Ortiz or Edgar Martinez or other outstanding DHs who rarely took the field?

He so happens to be on the same roster as one of the best players ever, who has battled some serious injuries the past few years and could use some "DH rest". But Ohtani would be the best hitter on two thirds of all other MLB clubs. Why wouldn't you want to get him as many at bats as possible?

yeah, agreed. the same "problem" that ohtani causes (not being able to use the DH to give other position players rest) is the same one that any team with a good DH has to confront

in some places it's called "a good problem to have"

also, gotta say, until this season, not having a dedicated spot (DH) to rotate tiring position players into was the lot of ...every single national league manager of the last century+

fwiw i think judge will win the mvp and it won't be particularly close

suspect ohtani will have some more seasons of being the runaway WAR leader like last year, so might as well let someone else have a turn this year while you can justify it

judge is getting near 10.0 fWAR, also, just scanning the list of all-time single season HR records, and it's all sosa, mcgwire, bonds. i try not to be too puritanical about but in the same way that i wanted pujols to get ahead of a-rod, it will pretty cool for a non ped player to hit 60+ HRs (please judge and pujols, don't let me down via news in the future)

I don’t know why, but I feel like being a top hitter and a top pitcher can’t go on for very long. I can’t rationalize it, he’s obviously insanely talented…. Maybe it was his rocky start to pitching in the majors? I hope he keeps doing this for a very long time, but the deep recesses of my brain are like “literally impossible.”

cc otm

I wonder what it’d do for ohtani’s WAR if he played right field on his non-pitching days instead of DH.

would depend on how badly he sucked out there

I’m sure he’d be above average. he’s a great athlete

he’d throw some people out, it’d be sick

i hate the city connect jerseys in general but the angels one should become their primary

no hitting the As through 7

he's just doing this to spite clemenza

not quite spiteful enough, i guess

He’ll just have to be content with being a more accurate comparison to Babe Ruth I guess.

Clemenza's a fan! (Say that in a Bob Dole voice.) My objection--still is--was more to mlb.com giving him screaming headlines every time he picked up a fork--specifically for accomplishments that weren't especially significant once you have already established he's a two-way player and will do a variety of things that are a by-product of that.

OHTANI CHARTS NEW TERRITORY!!! And then you'd read on to find out he was the first player to hit a double and strike out the side in the same game since x (almost always Ruth).

Seeing him pitch against the Jays this summer helped open my eyes--love his motion. And he's going be on the shortlist of greatest seasons ever by an MVP runner-up, I assume.

he needed 9 innings to qualify for the ERA title (apparently would have been the first player to ever qualify both as a pitcher and a hitter?) and pitched 8…

Two way players being so common these days ofc

My objection--still is--was more to ilxor.com giving him screaming headlines every time he picked up a fork--specifically for accomplishments that weren't especially significant once you have already established he's a two-way player guy who hits runs and will occasionally hit runs do a variety of things that are a by-product of that.

This is obvs not entirely serious… but I don’t get how the guy doing shit that is extraordinary is the one overhyped.

Because they were hyping things that weren't always extraordinary. Some of the things they were hyping were bound to happen the second his name was penciled into the lineup. Quirk of mine--really not a big deal.

A perfect example is the one I posted earlier in this thread:

"Hitting third and making his first start on the mound at Fenway Park, Ohtani became the first starting pitcher to bat in one of the top four spots in a game at the historic ballpark since Babe Ruth did so on Sept. 20, 1919."

That was a headline story. He's the starting pitcher that day, and he's batting near the top of the order, as you would expect. The game hasn't started yet.

Btw

OHTANI CHARTS NEW TERRITORY!!! And then you'd read on to find out he was the first player to hit a double and strike out the side in the same game since x (almost always Ruth).

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to hold this against him given the majority of people who saw Babe Ruth play are now dead. We are either more than a century or getting on from some of these feats!

reasonable, not unreasonable

I get what you're saying, but I don't think you get what I'm saying. In the headline I cited, the feat is that he's been penciled into the lineup. He hasn't actually done anything yet.

Our man has apparently signed a 1 year 30m deal a

Pitched another great game. If they gave him the MVP, I'd be surprised and it wouldn't be my vote, but I wouldn't argue against it very strenuously.

2023 ZiPS are out for the angels:

https://i.imgur.com/W4gn6pI.png

Trout's #1 comp is Mickey Mantle!
Ohtani's #1 pitching comp is Roger Clemens O_O

(Ohtani's #1 batting comp is Earl Torgeson, who i am much less familiar with)

Relatable

ファスナーに嫌われる😂 pic.twitter.com/Q8Lyz9e31Q

— splendid (@mintlibido) April 17, 2023

lol extremely

hitting and pitching today, not so much

Zip’s a pain but fuck the rain

3 IP with 8ks

2 for 2 at the plate

Insane.

That 3rd inning was hard to watch though. Had to switch to the O’s game. Glad he was able to come back and give a couple more innings.

Very strange how wild he has been this year. Almost like no one knows what he is throwing, shohei, catcher, umpire, batter, both teams, viewers. It’s all just chance coming out of his hand. Very effective tho

Fangraphs piece about his recent difficulties on the mound.

I wonder also if the current league wide popularity of sweepers is contributing to people hitting his better, alongside his shaky command. I’ve only seen him pitch a couple of times this season and the first time he was godlike and the second his command was wild and he looked like a completely different player. Hope he can iron it out. That ratio of offspeeds to fastballs is puzzling.

Patrick Sandoval just posted this photo of Shohei Ohtani eating Funyuns 😭 pic.twitter.com/jf7i12zX9e

— MLB Life (@MLBLife) May 23, 2023

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxnvjXRWAAAQOdu.jpg

Two Angels just hangin

My new future hobby: three-degrees-of photo triptychs.

https://phildellio.tripod.com/babetedreggiesho.jpg

Love it.

1W-2L in his last 7 starts...

he's absolutely going off.

pulled this quote from a news story KM posted years ago on the other Ohtani thread:

To better understand Otani I spoke with Anri Uechi of Kyodo News, who covers Masahiro Tanaka and the Yankees but also has followed the career of Otani. I asked Uechi for a comps on Otani as a pitcher and hitter. He came up with a blend of Yu Darvish — only with more velocity – and Christian Yelich. Hey, not bad.

really underselling him in retrospect!

I like every time I watch an Angels game at home and you see the stadium absolutely plastered with ads for Japan’s top cat food and the like.

i watched him cover 1b on that jared walsh diving catch yesterday and watching him run ro cover as a pitcher is insane.

Don’t pitchers sometimes have to cover the base depending on the play?

Lol this guy sucks

Jon Heyman briefly spoke with Arte Moreno at this week’s MLB owners’ meetings, and asked him about trading Ohtani:

“We want to win, and it’s nice to have him in the lineup.”https://t.co/NffpqJhRPG pic.twitter.com/4k6W7ntjr4

— Beyond The Halo (@BeyondTheHalo) June 16, 2023

Don’t pitchers sometimes have to cover the base depending on the play?

― TY FRANCE HATES TEXAS CONFIRMED (gyac), Friday, June 16, 2023 2:00 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

No i mean he is absurdly fast. pitchers on the whole are... not

Oh ok, it might be skewed in my mind cos I’ve watched a ton of Tim Lincecum games & I’ve seen him do that a few times.

He's so friendly about it too

The Friendliest Out. pic.twitter.com/SFzkrTq1dY

— Rob Friedman (@PitchingNinja) June 3, 2023

Even with Franco and Semien doing what they're doing, feels like he's starting to lap the field for MVP.

!

Another HR, up to 24.

Seems like an ok player

casual 0.4 WAR pitching 0.4 WAR hitting day

he would now be leading the AL in fWAR even without pitching.................as a fulltime DH

not going to say what else i'm thinking for fear of jinxes

god this is so crazy, like imagine a QB throwing 60 TDs every year while also giving up the fewest yards per attempt on defense as a safety and picking off 8 passes a year

he would now be leading the AL in fWAR even without pitching.................as a fulltime DH

and honestly he is clearly underrated as a hitter by fangraphs WAR because of their DH penalty, which i think has merit when applied to guys who aren't good enough to get on the field as defenders. but that's not why he DHs. over a full season he's prob at least a full win better than what they say

the DH penalty thing still warps my brain a little, I reached out to sean forman a couple of years ago with this same question and he explained that because he’s replacing a DH in the lineup rather than a pitcher, he gets the DH replacement adjustment. but I do feel like having him do both roles has adds value to their roster in other ways that WAR doesn’t capture. I feel similarly about utility players like kris bryant back when he was good

he frees up a roster spot, one would think that should give him a bonus

i understand why they give him the DH replacement since he is playing DH, but the point of it is to penalize hitters who don’t have the ability to play the field, and we know that isn’t the case with ohtani. i’m sure it wouldn’t be that difficult to calculate his hitting WAR as if he was a league average corner OF but that math is beyond me. it would prob be a more accurate reflection of who he is as a player tho, even if it wouldn’t capture what he literally did (or didn’t do) on the field

i mean he's a HOF-level talent at two positions, not Darvish meets Yelich but rather Verlander meets Judge, and the DH penalty is something i had trouble with when it came to normal extremely good DHs like Nelson Cruz or Ortiz. my son asked me if he was "better than Mike Trout" and i said he is now but also prob better than Trout ever was in overall value too. unreal that the angels are wasting both of those guys of course but that's been said a million times before.

they may actually make at least the wild card this year but that’s far from a given, they’re in a dogfight with a half dozen teams and their roster is in disrepair as per usual… brandon drury and moustakas hitting 3rd & 4th for them last night. thankfully i don’t think he’s going to re-sign w/ them

Ohtani would def be MVP at this point, if he can drag that roster to the playoffs it would be unanimous. it might require a little more help, i guess Trout could improve a bit more the rest of the way. which isn't to say he's been bad, he's on pace for 6 bWAR or something. Ohtani is on pace for over 12 of course.

i think he's a total runaway in the AL regardless of how the season goes. the only player who would maybe have a case over him is acuna

he's the best hitter in the AL and a top 10 pitcher. there is no way anyone is more valuable than him

Yeah unless he gets injured or goes like 0 for 7000 there is no other candidate. How could there be?

there's no one else in the vicinity right now

He's even a game-and-a-half ahead of Acuna...He should easily make a run at 50 HR (28 at the precise halfway mark); if he could somehow manage to get even hotter, trying to imagine the media frenzy if he made a run at Judge's league mark.

easy to project at the halfway mark. on pace for 14 wins and 254 Ks, 56 HR and 128 RBI and 110 runs scored, plus 8 triples, 22 SB, 82 walks.

not that impressive

so absurd

yeah it's insane to see a player hyped up as much as he was actually somehow deliver on it. only other dude I can think of is LeBron James

hello world

Yeah unless he gets injured or goes like 0 for 7000 there is no other candidate. How could there be?

― half the population ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (gyac), Wednesday, June 28, 2023 2:15 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

This was also true at this time last year. I’m not mad. I’m not mad. I’m not mad.

Frankly, in retrospect, my issue isn’t Judge or MVP voters but that people believe in WAR in the era of representation learning.

xp I’m 100000% with you & said so last year at the time!

judge was better enough as a hitter to justify MVP imo

judge was better enough as a hitter to justify MVP imo

I don’t understand the question!

maybe this is boomer vibes from me but i'm cool w/ a guy who hit .311/.425/.686 w/ 62 homers, 131 RBI, 133 runs (league leader in those three categories) & 16 steals for the yankees winning MVP

fangraphs had judge at 11.5 WAR (a full 4 wins clear of the next hitter lmao) & ohtani's combined WAR at 9.4. looks like bball ref has it more at like 10.6 to 9.6 but pretty much in the same spot

pursuant to our previous discussion ohtani gets unnecessarily dinged via DH penalty but even an optimistic adjustment of fangraphs formula would at best have him tied w/ judge so i don't think it was a miscarriage of justice & frankly the right guy prob won

this year tho i think ohtani will win unanimously & there can't be any other logical vote

Yeah imagine how much better Ohtani could have done if he’d been getting the balls Judge did. 😌 never saw anyone on here who thought Judge deserved MVP have a word to say about MLB putting their hand on the scales.

iirc ohtani is on pace for 12-something bWAR, which would be the most valuable season since dwight gooden's 13.3 in 1985 (when he was 20 ffs)

tbf if you view the MVP a certain way -- i myself do not -- judge absolutely carried a 99-win yankees team, while ohtani was one of two very good players on a team that finished 33 games out of first

I'm in the camp that considers Ohtani's DH WAR hit not necessarily a penalty but the mere reality that if he did play a position, he would be a lesser hitter/pitcher because of it, esp with his injury history.

Speaking of, this is probably the longest stretch he's been healthy in his MLB career...? [citation needed]

jeez Steve Shasta how many positions does Ohtani have to play

Yeah that’s true, he could have run into a concrete wall and torn his toe.

well that's where the MLB MVP gets messy, since it's the one major sport where you really are just the sum of your parts. great players can't make anyone else better which is absolutely not the case with great QBs and LeBron Jameses and things of that nature. also you can't leverage your best guys, in the NBA you can always save your best lineup for crunch time and run the final play through your best guy, whereas in MLB it often winds up coming down to whether or not your backup outfielder can get a clutch hit and there's nothing you can do about it

I'm in the camp that considers Ohtani's DH WAR hit not necessarily a penalty but the mere reality that if he did play a position, he would be a lesser hitter/pitcher because of it, esp with his injury history.

Speaking of, this is probably the longest stretch he's been healthy in his MLB career...? [citation needed]

― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Thursday, June 29, 2023 12:19 PM (one hour ago) bookmar

oh actually I should clarify — my prior confusion about the DH penalty only applied to games where he pitched — getting the DH penalty when he’s DHing is more straightforward

Aye, in a post-NL-rule world that is odd.

This year, not even close, but absolutely would have voted for Judge last year.

I'm fine with Judge winning it last year, and barring a PED scandal or mysterious death Ohtani is pretty much a lock this year. What's interesting to think is what if a hitter like Judge wound up at 10 WAR, while Ohtani had 8 WAR hitting and 3 WAR pitching? Obviously combined Ohtani has more WAR, but Judge is clearly a better hitter, and even though Ohtani is a better than an average starting pitcher he would not be particularly great...he would be on the order of like, George Kirby or Kyle Wright. a solid rotation guy, but you could replace his spot. however that does free up a roster spot and that in itself is very valuable. I'd still vote Ohtani because he's so cool but it would definitely wind up being a very annoying debate.

I love those debates, provided no one's arguing from an I-know-the-truth-and-you're-an-idiot position.

xp idk about Kyle Wright but gotta disagree about Kirby. He’s having a really uneven year (on a terrible Mariners team mar dhea) but on his good starts he looks untouchable. His ceiling is probably not an ace but he’s definitely no 2 when he’s got a couple more years. Whole Mariners rotation has been patchy in general, actual ace Castillo has a FIP of 3.76 atm vs Kirby’s 3.26. Basically interested to see how the rotation can pull together down the second half cos Kirby is really special to watch when he’s on.

Ohtani though, you absolutely can’t discount the roster spot. You can’t discount the fact that he’s got a league-leading 12ks/9, that he’s cut his hits per 9 rate, that he had some shit starts but is generally a solid 6/7 innings guy. Having said that, his FIP looks bad, but could be related to some horrific starts he did have?

In either case, there’s not exactly a surplus of quality arms in either league atm and there’s exactly one that’s outhitting everyone else. Honestly think this is underplaying him even though we constantly hear and see how good he is.

Lmao also at him finishing 4th in AL Cy voting last year behind Verlander (ERA of 4.11/FIP of 4.22, WHIP of 1.228 so far); Cease (ERA of 4.04/FIP of 3.87, WHIP of 1.292) and Manoah (no comment). Every chance he finishes high in Cy voting this year.

I was mostly looking at Kirby from last year, just trying to find someone comprable to the level Ohtani might settle into. was just thinking "ok who's someone who's good, occassionally great, but sometimes uneven". maybe more interesting to think of him putting up 7 WAR as a hitter and 5 WAR as a pitcher, both of which would be very impressive but not exactly MVP/Cy level. curious how the voting would turn out then. like he would still probably deserve it but it might feel weird if he was like the 4th best hitter and 6th best pitcher

funny enough the album I'm listening to right now has a tune called "The Trouble with Shohei" and it would be perfect walk-up music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBEP_YkEa5Y

This made me look what his actual walkup music is
https://i.postimg.cc/bJ6g1grM/IMG-4188.jpg

The first one is some obscure act from Wisconsin whose biggest presence is on bandcamp? Unexpected but he is kind of solitary seeming?

lmao they're from Kenosha? that's amazing

I KNOW I WAS LIKE PLEASE LET FROGS KNOW THEM

I do not but I found out that apparently one of the dudes from Explosions in the Sky lives in the same building as my Mom over the summers? she asked if I want to meet him and I was like uhhh I don't know

if you pull up combined pitching WAR from 21, 22 & 23 on fangraphs the leaderboard is such

1. zach wheeler - 14.5
2. kevin gausman - 14.0
3. corbin burnes - 13.1
4. aaron nola - 12.4
5. sandy alcantara - 11.9
6. carlos rodon - 11.1
7. max scherzer - 10.8
8. gerrit cole - 10.7
9. shohei ohtani - 10.6
10. dylan cease - 10.5
11. logan webb - 10.3

i'd prob toss scherzer out of there just bcuz of his age & webb is a totally different kinda pitcher. but if you look at ohtani vs cole & cease...

K/9

ohtani - 11.54
cole - 11.36
cease - 11.49

GB%

ohtani - 43.5%
cole - 41.3%
cease - 37.0%

FIP

ohtani - 3.10
cole - 3.25
cease - 3.37

ohtani is better at suppressing homers than those two guys, he also has a lower BABIP which fangraphs doesn't see as a pitcher skill

i think if you're looking for ohtani comparables these two feel like the best ones to me... fangraphs basically has them as the same pitcher value wise the last 2.5 seasons & they're getting to their value in pretty much the same ways

Smashed a two-run homer (29th of the year!) in the bottom of the 9th, Angels lose to White Sox 7-5(!)

every time I see an Angels highlight it's like "Mike Trout hit three homes runs and raised his average to .528 while Shohei Ohtani did something that hasn't been done since 'Tungsten Arm' O'Doyle of the 1921 Akron Groomsmen, as the Tigers defeated the Angels 8-3"

— ℳatt (@matttomic) May 18, 2021

9-7, wtf, not 7-5.

14 homers in june

Breaking, according to mlb.com, the team record of 13 belonging to Pujols (June 2015), Tim Salmon (June 1996), and...Shohei Ohtani (June 2021).

at the risk of blaspheming . . . i don't feel like WAR is equipped to gauge ohtani

perhaps not too great a blasphemy considering how its defensive ratings are all over the place from year to year

tell 'em steve shasta

I think that's probably true. It's like OPS; mathematically, you can't give equal weight to two percentages with unlike denominators.

This sounds bizarre, but if baseball is 50% scoring runs and 50% preventing them, it's almost like Ohtani's hitting should be on one side and his pitching and defense on the other.

I don’t understand what you mean by that

i think it mean otani's all man

What I meant (playing off the previous post)...Right now, Ohtani's overall WAR just adds together his position player WAR (comprised of hitting plus defense, or in his case a DH adjustment) and his pitcher WAR. Baseball has two components: scoring runs and preventing runs--you need to do the first better than the second to win. So, as James has written many times (usually debunking things like "baseball is 70% pitching), pitching is exactly 50% baseball, but when you say pitching, that then needs to be broken down into the pitcher and the defense. So for Ohtani, move the defensive part of his overall WAR from the position player to the pitcher.

Do I think that's actually a good idea? Haven't a clue (or if it would even affect his overall WAR--maybe not, since it's all addition anyway). But I agree that "I don't feel like WAR is equipped to gauge Ohtani."

I kinda get it, I mean "Wins Over Replacement" is based on the idea of a "Replacement player", and the people who come up with these calculations admit that this is kind of a guess, so its conceivable that both sides are slightly off in different directions

ohtani hits every day and pitches once a week. when he hits, he gets the defensive penalty of a DH. when he pitches (and hits), he gets the same defensive penalty for being a batter, but gets a defensive boost for playing the field on the mound

Would love to have that translated into Stengelese.

do catchers get a defensive penalty for rarely fielding the ball?

I thought they got a bonus because so few people can play that position. idk how they rate catcher defense though

Re catchers they get a bonus. Re 50/50 pitching and hitting i think EW or fangraphs has the ratio significantly one way or the other

http://research.sabr.org/journals/is-pitching-75-of-baseball

Possibly old

I…think tracer was kidding?

(xpost) That looks like the kind of "insider" survey James got his start debunking: "During the winter of 1978, we sent a short, one page questionnaire to the 26 field managers and the 26 general managers and/or chief executives of all major league baseball clubs, and 26 selected sportswriters and sports broadcasters."

Whatever kind of analytic system you develop, it seems like sound logic to me that you have to start with one basic premise: winning baseball games comes down to 50% scoring runs and 50% preventing them.

right I mean…that’s just not how things work

i just think, if you're a catcher, maybe it's like try playing a real position and then we can give you a meaningful WAR

man and I thought *I* had the most extreme catcher-value related challops on ilx!

as somebody once said, 90% of this game is mental, and the other half is physical. the rest is catching

500-ft. HR, 30 before the break.

https://www.mlb.com/news/30-or-more-home-runs-before-mlb-all-star-game-c266214234

sometimes i see clips of his homers and think huh, i didn’t expect that to get out

this was not one of them

dude fuckin cranks

yeah, that ball was DISMISSED

wow

279 wRC+ in june

Posnanski's column today:

Ohtani is coming off a June in which he hit .394 and slugged .952. That .952 slugging percentage is the third-highest EVER RECORDED for the month of June. Check out this list:

Babe Ruth, June 1921, .979 SLG
Babe Ruth, June 1920, .960 SLG
Shohei Ohtani, June 2023, .952 SLG
Lou Gehrig, June 1936, .934 SLG
Lou Gehrig, June 1930, .919 SLG

(Most of the column is devoted to the Braves, who--I can be miraculously oblivious to these things--were 21-4 in June.)

31. (The other guy homered too.)

Pulled early again with a blister, almost certainly not pitching at ASG

Shohei Ohtani (via interpreter Ippei Mizuhara) on whether the finger blister is relate to the cracked nail from his last pitching start: "It's basically the same thing as last time. It wasn't fully healed. It's gotten kind of worse as the game went on."

— Sarah Valenzuela (@Sarah_IsabelVee) July 5, 2023

he needs to do the derby fuck the game itself

wonder if the Angels are pondering trading him in the wake of the Trout injury. I know that move would be massively unpopular but Fangraphs has their playoff odds at 20% currently (only 4.5% to actually win the division) and they could get an insane haul for him, possibly the best midseason haul ever. I really hope they don't and think doing so would be bad for the game but they have to be considering it, right??

Not sure if you saw this: https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-rumors-trades-and-signings?t=trades-and-transactions

i think they want to re-sign him and if they trade him that seems very unlikely so i think they will just pray for a miracle that they can make some noise in the playoffs this year & that he decides to re-sign w/ them for whatever reason. i highly doubt he re-signs there tho

^^^

when he first came over, he wanted to be on the west coast. i presume that that is no longer a major factor

Honestly can’t see him going to an east coast team. I could be wrong but physical proximity to Japan & all the money a team rakes in from being able to run Japanese advertising to viewers there in a more favourable timezone…but who knows. Personally think he’s a Dodger.

i'm sure he will entertain the yankees, i don't think playing in new york hurt the japanese stars before him. but otherwise it feels like it's gonna be the dodgers, giants, mariners... i'm sure the padres will throw their hat in the ring but idk how they could make that payroll work. sluggers don't like to seem the giants -- both stanton & judge turned them down. i feel like it's the dodgers too but i wouldn't rule out seattle for obvious reasons

I would love it to be Seattle - great pitcher’s park, Ichiro there every day - but he was absolutely miserable playing in cold weather apparently & more chance of that there (& in SF) than LA. SF also preferable for me and I think it being a historically good pitchers park would be in their favour. Think Judge just wanted to stay a Yankee and was never going to move once they gave him an acceptable offer.

all the money a team rakes in from being able to run Japanese advertising to viewers there in a more favourable timezone…but who knows

AIUI, foreign media/markets and merch are all pooled so any team that signs him doesn't make all that much money from the Japanese market - tourists coming to Ohtani home games, some in-stadium advertising but it wouldn't cover much of a $40mn+/yr contract (particularly if you're the Dodgers and already basically selling out every home game).

35 in 94 games, 18 in 31--on pace for 60.

"doing a Ruth" while casually dealing to the tune of 3.50 ERA

Old-guy stuff, I know, but I like it anyway.

https://i.postimg.cc/wMxnQJvJ/winfield.jpg

that bat flip was a thing of beauty

home run #35 for shohei and then an elite bat flip 🔥 pic.twitter.com/59WTacp8rp

— Codify (@CodifyBaseball) July 18, 2023

This is really amazing if accurate (the HR check out, although I have Ohtani playing slightly fewer games...I guess he's had a few where he pitched but didn't hit; haven't checked the pitching side of it).

- Babe Ruth: 159 home runs in his first 674 career games / W-L 35-18 in his first 455.0 career innings pitched.

- Shohei Ohtani: 160 home runs in his first 674 career games / W-L 35-19 in his first 455.0 IP career innings pitched. pic.twitter.com/6L8kkHUvEp

— Héctor Gómez (@hgomez27) July 17, 2023

(I assume they had to remove a photo of Ruth eating 12 hot dogs.)

One more, pertinent to the Winfield tweet:

Bill: What do you believe is more impressive/difficult to accomplish: Being a Two-Way player like Shohei Ohtani or playing 2 sports at the same time like Bo Jackson/Deion Sanders did with Baseball/Football?
Asked by: Taylor

Answered: 7/17/2023
The most difficult feat in the area is writing about baseball and also writing true crime books. Joking. I doubt that being a two-way player in one sport is more difficult than playing two different sports. I think there are and have been other players who could have done it, if given the opportunity--not at the level Ohtani is doing it, but they could have done it. Greinke could have done it. Ken Brett could have done it. Micah Owings could have done it. Many Negro League players DID do it...Double Duty Radcliffe, obviously, but also many others.

(I don't take that as criticism at all: "not at the level Ohtani is doing it.")

to be fair to ruth the first few years of his career were in the deadball era

Which made the pitching easier and the hitting harder...As I've said a few times on here, I've become very skeptical of baseball records pre-integration/pre-War, although players that bridge both eras--Williams, Musial, Spahn--I'd at least give them a pass, since they were still premier players during the heyday of Mays, Mantle, and Aaron. It's a continuum. In the end, I guess I really don't know what Ruth would do playing today.

my kids would call him "big bunda"

https://thetomspowerpop.bandcamp.com/track/angel-on-the-mound-shohei-ohtani

Not quite "Mrs. Robinson," but not bad!

(I have that Toms compilation...I knew it looked familiar.)

for no reason i can adequately explain i am a huge tommy marolda fan. haven't really followed baseball since the twins won the '87 world series, tho.

pulled from a blog online, these are the players who led the league in homers and triples in the same season, like Ohtani is doing now:

Harry Stovey (2x)
Tip O'Neill
Harry Lumley
Jim Bottomley
Tommy Leach
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Jim Rice

Rice used to ground into a million double plays, surprised by that.

i was kinda surprised too, it's not like he was one of those five tool contributors, he wasn't a Dawson or Walker or Bonds. must have been finding those gaps (not much of a doubles guy though, he hit 30+ only thrice.)

lotta guys have been position players + played football: deion, brian jordan, bo, lol tebow; could maybe have had kyler murray and russell wilson were the nfl not so much more lucrative for QBs

lotta guys have been position players + played hoops: ainge, groat, gwynn, strawberry, eric davis, lol jordan

but pitching is a very different skill set. being super-athletic can help you run and dunk or whatever, but it won't help as much in making you a big-league pitcher

milwaukee bucks guard pat connaughton was a fourth-round MLB pick (and likely would have gone in the second had he committed to baseball) and threw 96, which i find extremely interesting

and tom glavine was taken higher in the NHL draft than hall-of-famer luc robitaille, which is fucking crazy

i think those last two guys are more comparable to shohei/ruth than dave winfield is . . . except shohei/ruth actually *did* the two things and connaughton/glavine only *might* have

fwiw gordie howe was supposedly a v. good position player, probably not least because of his fucking enormous forearms

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkmEkxoVEAAGNhw.jpg

Bob Gibson? Had the pitching stuff figured out...His batting stats (three or four AB per week, probably) aren't great for a non-pitcher, but I get the feeling he could have done whatever he set his mind to. Not saying Ohtani-level, but I think he could have been successful as a two-way player.

One thing in that Winfield tweet I disagree with is "but teams didn't have the vision back then." Are there other teams trying this now? It seems that one team has the vision/nerve/whatever to try it. It worked out so spectacularly well, they're probably going to lose the player.

I wonder if Ohtani is analogous in a way to Jackie Robinson. Ohtani's experiment obviously isn't as soul-crushing and ultimately as heroic as Robinson's, but one thing most everyone would agree on is that there were other Black players just as amazing as Robinson or Mays or Aaron who simply never got the chance (or, like Paige, only briefly got the chance, long after the fact). Baseball made a decision after Ruth that you had to be a pitcher or a position player. So you can say that Ohtani is this singular player that comes along once every 100 years, and there's no way to refute that. But if other teams are trying this in the low minors right now (or start to after this season), 10 or 15 years from now there might be another Ohtani, leaving people to wonder why there was an unwritten rule against two-way players for a century.

"vision/nerve/whatever"--being the Angels, add "desperation."

Last thing: the truism that in high school, most major leaguers were the best hitter/pitcher/fielder/everything on their team.

yeah coming from outside the draft, ohtani had unusual leverage in forcing a team to let him do both. that's a labor issue

hunter greene could have done both, but the reds made him concentrate on pitching because he can throw 100+. and the financial incentives encouraged him to follow along

But if other teams are trying this in the low minors right now (or start to after this season), 10 or 15 years from now there might be another Ohtani, leaving people to wonder why there was an unwritten rule against two-way players for a century.

The Giants, last year drafted Reggie Crawford as a two-way player with their first pick. This year they took Bryce Eldridge, 16th overall, as another two-way player.

Okay, didn't know that.

https://www.mlb.com/news/bryce-eldridge-ready-for-mlb-draft-as-two-way-player

I find the 3.50 ERA a little puzzling: lowest H/9 in the league, 11.9 K/9, and while his control isn't great, his K/BB ratio is 3.00, and even into the '80s and '90s that was still excellent. (Clemens for his career: 2.96.) I guess it's the home runs: 14 in 105.1 innings, a rate about four or five times what league leader Sonny Gray's is. Not sure why that is.

I guess it's the home runs...

ya think?

The "not sure why that is" was more important. If you have that much stuff, and you're wild enough that (presumably) batters can't dig in--I can sort of understand why Verlander gives up a lot of homers--why does he give so many up?

If I were to wager he's probably tipping his FB.

came across this dude. not a HOFer but an interesting career for sure. a pretty superior starting pitcher and a regular pinch hitter, enough to get a decent chunk of his career bWAR from hitting alone.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/ferrewe01.shtml

Forgot about him, definitely--his brother Rick, a catcher, is in the HOF.

Not being traded

I don't know about that, if they would have gotten some top end talent then you should take it. They have, practically, no chance of resigning him.

Six of the home runs were in his last three starts (fingernail and blister issues), when his ERA fell from 3.02. Beating the Tigers this morning.

I doubt anyone was willing to offer the right package for a rental.

I saw a story the other day about how the Jays were very much in the running for Ohtani...which is joke in view of the way Shapiro/Atkins operate (and really, the club in general with regards to the kind of long-term contract that would be needed--or would have been needed, as the case may be).

I'm glad they're keeping him. I thought it would be smart to trade him even for an "underwhelming" package but I kinda hate that shit honestly. Ride or die baby

He’s still pitching bottom of the 8th, is he going for a shutout? 81 pitches, looks like it!

(xpost) I usually agree, I always want face-of-the-franchise players to stay with said franchise. (I'm living in a dream world from 30 years ago...although it still occasionally happens.) But thinking about Trout's experience, I was really hoping he'd get out of there, even if it meant the Dodgers or Yankees.

111 pitches, 3 walks, 1 hit, 8 strikeouts, first complete game shutout of his MLB career.

I'm watching live and live so close to the stadium that I could walk there. Anyways, after pitching the first game he has already hit a two run home run in the second game.

They said it was number 37 and the lead in that category?

By nine--he's making a run at Judge.

38

honestly the most insane shit I've ever seen in professional sports

Insane, has anyone ever had a better day?

Shit.

Ohtani is insane, but he was grabbing at his side/hip/oblique on a home run swing

— Red Sox Stats (@redsoxstats) July 27, 2023

pic.twitter.com/LlZfqGFG9p

— Red Sox Stats (@redsoxstats) July 27, 2023

Insane, has anyone ever had a better day?

Maybe:

https://baseballhall.org/discover/short-stops/rick-wise-no-hitter#:~:text=But%20few%20players%20ever%20had,Cincinnati%20Reds%20at%20Riverfront%20Stadium.

But it was more of a once-in-a-lifetime thing with him.

Yeah he’s been taken out.

Thanks for sharing clem, as I was seriously wondering.

I know MadBum hit two home runs in one game but he didn't also pitch a complete game.

Removed due to cramping from Angels broadcast

That's evidently why the Cardinals traded Carlton for Rick Wise, they thought he'd pitch a no-hitter and hit two runs every start.

Angels off to a great start after going all in for a wildcard spot. Lucky to have a team like Detroit for a double header when none of their rivals are playing today, win a full game back into the race. Very easy to cheer for them when the yanks and sox are their competition

Rick Wise gets passing mention here:

https://www.mlb.com/news/facts-about-shohei-ohtani-1-hit-shutout-2-hr-day

(The aforementioned Wes Farrell, too.)

If you can stand Posnanski's relentless self-promotion:

https://open.substack.com/pub/joeposnanski/p/friday-rewind-ohtani-keeps-rewriting?r=1jtu0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

(If we land someone on Mars tomorrow, he'll post about it and tie it in with his upcoming book.)

I’m at the game and a lot of people: cheering for Ohtani also: boo’ing Ohtani and/or the people cheering for him. I’ve never heard such a loud mixed reaction home run in my life.
Also wow did he ever connect with that.

I’m at the game and a lot of people: cheering for Ohtani also: boo’ing Ohtani and/or the people cheering for him. I’ve never heard such a loud mixed reaction home run in my life.
Also wow did he ever connect with that.

Could hear that mix from the broadcast. This’ll be a fun series

Why is there booing?

What the hell happened to Ontani?

They are pitch hitting for him with the bases loaded and down by three in the nineth

Going to see the Angels play the Braves tonight. Really looking forward to it.

Luckyyyyy tell us everything

The crowd was quite enthusiastic--many more Angels (or maybe Ohtani) fans than I would have expected. A couple of youngsters behind us were very enthusiastic, probably more enthusiastic than most of the fans are in Anaheim.

Not a spectacular night for him; hit by a pitch, intentional walk, two singles and a fly out. The last would have been a home run, if Michael Harris II hadn't made a spectacular leap to snag it. We had great seats, and it was a lot of fun, even for a very tepid Braves loss.

Ha. We were watching one of the Blue Jays games where he got intentionally walked at least once maybe twice and my better half was fuming. “People come to see Shohei at the plate!”

I’m not convinced he’s not playing through injury atm btw. He’s looked less comfortable recently and he got pulled in two successive games early for “cramps”.

Not sure about that. He looked OK, and did have five ABs last night.

I was put off last fall when teams that weren't in contention were intentionally unintentionally not pitching to Judge, or when anyone was doing it in the first inning with nobody on base, but I don't think we're quite there yet with Ohtani. Pitching to him, after all, is what caused Chapman to go off in the dugout.

The Angels did hit three homers last night, including Rengifo's leadoff homer on the third pitch of the night. Not a good outing for Charlie Morton.

I checked and he has a currently league-leading 13 intentional walks with 5 of those coming in his last three games. Do international walks count towards obp, I then wondered, and yeah of course they do. I think with a hitter with his reach you’re probably better off being upfront about it if you’re that worried about him hitting cos I’ve seen him swipe pitches outside the zone pretty easily.

xp he got knocked around by the Red Sox in his last game too

The Angels intentionally walked Matt Olson on his next AB after his lone HR (and lone run) for the Braves.

xp Yeah, he's a cause for concern. He seems to like to work under pressure, i.e., with multiple runners on base.

the angels line up was also in an especially dark place after trout injury's and before some of these trades. the guys hitting directly behind him in that blue jays series (moniak, ward, moustakas) have to be just about the least intimidating 3-4-5 in baseball

Do international walks count towards obp

Depends. If it happens in the States or in Canada, yes. In Belgium, Italy, and South Korea, no.

Does he actually cos the game I watched him pitch he walked in a bases-loaded run in the bottom of the 1st and it didn’t get better after that 😬

I didn't say it was a successful strategy lol

Just that he seems to like it, and when it works he looks brilliant.

It’s certainly interesting I guess, I’m definitely an I can’t look person when you’ve got a guy you know has control issues trying to get out of a jam. Will they pop out, will he throw wild and let in two runs? All part of the fun!

I can't look away

One thing I hadn't picked up on till something I read a few days ago was that he's within striking range of a Triple Crown--15 points behind Diaz in average, six RBI behind Garcia, HR locked up. That's a lot of BA to make up in 45 games, but could happen. Corey Seager's shortened season is in the mix too.

Matt Olson is now tied with Ohtani for HRs this season.

I think I watch a lot of baseball and then I see that and think, “wait, I didn’t even know Matt Olsen had hit more than 20 yet”

Olson's yr new HR leader. Pick it up, Shohei!

Braves are right around the pace of the Twins' team record from a couple of years ago.

Olson is up to 43 HRs, two ahead of Ohtani. He hit a 455 foot monster last night at Citi, really impressive.

44th HR, left today's game in the second inning with "arm fatigue."

He’s been playing injured and pushing himself for a while. Maybe his fourth early exit in the past month?

Could he be done pitching this year? 13 (!) days rest and gets pulled after facing 5 batters. Angels playoff adds are at 0.2%

His 4SFB was only hitting 92mph in the 2nd inning (-8%), again after 13 days rest. He normally hits 92mph with his splitter which was sitting mid-80s today.

Oh that is really fucking bad. He needs to go on the IL but…You know.

They're not even close to the WC anymore--10 games out. And if they were to just have him DH for the rest of the year, it wouldn't even cost him the MVP.

Torn UCL, he's done pitching.

Ah, that's really too bad. I don't know physiology particularly well--I hope he can stay in there as DH.

bryce harper DH’d for the phillies last year on a torn UCL and was DHing for them this year post-surgery before he was cleared to return to the field. so it can be done. the issue is that if it does require surgery ohtani is better off not wasting a month playing out the string for a terrible team

https://undertheknife.substack.com/p/utk-flash-ohtani-elbow-trout-il

Holy shit. He’s already had Tommy John as well.

He’s really been pushing this season. I love Ohtani, but I wondered how he could keep doing these things, but it turns out, he was just running himself into the ground.

tbf all sorts of players run into UCL issues, even normal human players. There is something about pitchers, though. Very hard to keep them healthy.

One month before hitting free agency as well... this injury may cost him well over $100M.

It's really strange that the Angels would let him play in the second game of a double-header after he was removed from the mound in the first. There's no diagnosis at that point--could be anything.

Yeah they have been handling the whole thing very strangely. They just announced Trout is going back on the IL. CJ Wilson was posting about the club’s historical medical issues:

there was no breakfast served at spring training until 2nd week of ST in 2012, and no weight room until 2013. Coming from Texas where fitness was 100% expected, it was shocking how lazy they expected the players to be

— C.J. Wilson (@str8edgeracer) August 24, 2023

It's really strange that the Angels would let him play in the second game of a double-header after he was removed from the mound in the first. There's no diagnosis at that point--could be anything.

― clemenza, Thursday, August 24, 2023 11:06 AM (twenty-one minutes ago)

i probably would've just sat him but i don't think it's that strange. we know you can hit even on a torn UCL.

But my assumption is that the diagnosis was made after the second game, and that at that point they don't know for sure what it is beyond "arm fatigue." And even if they did know, I personally wouldn't put him out there, especially in an essentially meaningless game. If nothing else, he wouldn't mentally be in the right frame of mind knowing he won't pitch again.

The angels are basically the west coast Mets, just a badly run organization Plus loads of bad luck. Generational talents wasted, and increasingly injured and unable to contribute down the stretch.

It's a damn shame, such a great season for ohtani. If he's able to keep hitting the way he has the rest of the way that'll be a decent consolation prize I suppose.

even if he doesn't play at all (hitting/pitching), he'd probably still win MVP, too, but yeah, such a bummer to see him get injured. pitchers will break your heart!

Yeah I don’t think they were ignorant (xps to clemenza), he has been dealing with this fatigue all month and for a while now. I didn’t realise till Steve Shasta said that he hadn’t started in twelve days!

I know I shouldn't be giving it a second thought, that there's a lot more at stake here, but I have been thinking about MVP. If he keeps DH'ing, he'll still win unanimously, I'm sure. If he doesn't, even though I could see a handful of writers dropping him to #2, he still should win easily. No one's even close right now in bWAR, and of the three guys within four games, Seager has also missed significant time, Seager and Semien play for the same team, and the third is Wander Franco. There's also precedent in Josh Hamilton in 2010, who didn't play between Sept. 4 and Oct. 1.

Josh hamilton, another member of the cursed group for the Angels

Ohtani 2023 will go down as a Grand Experiment but if he ever decides back to pitch again (after 2 TJ's) he'll be like Jake deGrom or Chris Sale or Clayton Kershaw... glimmers of greatness between long IL residences. Not sure if whomever he lands with in 2024+ will want to risk that.

i think he's likely to land with one of the owners with bottomless pockets, and they will want to risk it because ohtani the 2-way thing is the key to his legend (and merchandise/PR/attendance). DH-only ohtani is still awesome but it's just different

kinda harsh on Kershaw imo - he has 416 starts, that's 4th among active pitchers, and like 200 more than Sale or deGrom have (257 and 215)

Kershaw is the last of those types of workhorses though IMO? He and Verlander are the freaks, not the other guys. Pitchers are throwing harder, throwing more strikes, and getting Tommy John more regularly. I was looking at the all time strikeouts per nine leaderboard (min 1000 IP), look how many of the guys on it are current pitchers!

https://i.postimg.cc/NFDM0FSH/IMG-8246.jpg

the thing i'd keep in mind is that contract he has been building up to this offseason is predicated on him being a two way player. he'd still get a giant deal, prob the biggest in the game, if he was going to just be a hitter, but the eye-popping american sports record setting contract that was certainly coming requires him to be valued as a two way player. so my guess is that his people will be in no rush to say "yeah it's best if he never pitches again." even if, realistically speaking, that's where this is inevitably headed

personally i think he's too good of a pitcher to just never pitch again -- especially if he was on a team that genuinely had a chance to win the world series he'd be very valuable in a playoff setting. i could see a team coming up w/ a plan to get him enough starts in the regular season to stay sharp but not really pushing him as a SP until the stretch run/playoffs. or just converting him to a lights out 2 inning reliever.

I wonder if he might not sign a deal with an early opt-out - sign a big deal as a hitter, if he shows he can pitch again he opts out and signs a humongous deal as both?

On that photo gallery of strikeout leaders, I think the chronological divide between Koufax/Ryan and everybody else is two decades measured by debut--is Randy Johnson the third on that timeline?

Ah I see y'all are being a bit optimistic with Shohei's pitching future imho.

Which one of you googlers can tell me who has compiled the most WAR *after* two Tommy Johns?

Yeah, full page for reference is here: https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/strikeouts_per_nine_career.shtml

Was just looking at Ohtani’s baseball savant page and there’s a very noticeable uptick in the % of breaking pitches he throws, wonder if that had an effect.

Ok here's the full list I have:

Pitcher - date of 2nd TJ
Nathan Eovaldi - 2016
Jameson Taillon - 2019
Daniel Hudson - 2013
Jason Isringhausen - 2008
Chris Capuano - 2008
Joakim Soria - 2012

In recovery from 2nd TJ:
Hyun-Jin Ryu
Walker Buehler

Was just going to post this--maybe your list is gleaned from the same source:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2020-11-17/padres-second-tommy-john-surgery-mike-clevinger-nathan-eovaldi

Whoops, missed Clev. Ok, here's the "2nd TJ success stories" quick & dirty table:

Post-2nd TJ bWAR/fWAR:

Nathan Eovaldi - 12.0/12.5/ = AVG: 2.0/2.1
Jameson Taillon - 3.0/5.4 = AVG 1.0/1.8
Daniel Hudson - /4.5 = AVG /0.5
Jason Isringhausen - 1.8/-0.6 = AVG 0.2/-0.3
Chris Capuano - 2.6/6.6 = AVG 0.3/0.9
Joakim Soria - 5.8/7.6 = AVG 0.4/0.8

Also to note the obvious: these guys listed above were one-way players and their career depended upon their health only as pitchers.

Ohtani's value prior to this was gauged three-fold: pitcher/fielder/batter.

So it's safe to say Ohtani won't pitch again in 2023 and mostly likely 2024 and will more than likely only be a DH. He could possibly see 1B action as he will not have to make any overhand throws (similar to what Harper's doing now). So basically he's not pitching for at least one year or more, and will be relegated to DH and maybe 1B. This is going to cut his value down massively at the front-end of whatever contract he signs in the offseason.

Also of note, that coming out of high school in 2012 the LA Dodgers (Ohtani's top choice) would only sign Shohei as a one-way player which was more than likely the reason he chose the Nippon Ham Fighters instead of MLB.

just a thought about him playing 1B with a torn UCL...

Could he turn a 3-X-3 double play?

Will defer to the mookieproof on this.

bryce strictly DH'd last year w/ a torn UCL and then came back to play 1B this season before he was cleared for more intensive throwing. i think you *can* throw a ball on a torn UCL it would just hurt a lot & if there is a chance of worsening a non-full you wouldn't want to risk it.

w/ ohtani specifically you also have to consider the angels just called up their first round pick who plays 1B and ohtani is already acclimated to DH, i don't see why he'd step on the field this season if he doesn't sit out altogether

This is also potentially a blow to the game in general. Much as I hate the term--and believe me, I'm not blaming Trout here; I admired the way he shrugged off Manfred's admonishments--and also putting aside my carping about mlb.com's gushing early last year, Shohei has seemed to be more "marketable" than Trout. If he continues as a great hitter but not a pitcher, it just wouldn't be the same.

w/ ohtani specifically you also have to consider the angels just called up their first round pick who plays 1B and ohtani is already acclimated to DH, i don't see why he'd step on the field this season if he doesn't sit out altogether

― J0rdan S., Thursday, August 24, 2023 11:25 AM (eighteen minutes ago)

yeah sorry that scenario was more for whomever signs Ohtani in the offseason for 2024 and beyond.

Serious question: why is it so hard for pitchers to come back after TJ#2? I thought that TJ surgery actually made the arm stronger and more resilient? Obviously there's a long list of pitchers who dominated after TJ. What is it about the second surgery that makes it less successful than the first?

From the article Clem linked above:

“On average, the typical TJ revision isn’t as successful as the typical primary TJ,” Dr. Andrew Cosgarea, an orthopedic surgeon and professor at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, said Tuesday. “… The first time you drill a hole in the bone it is fresh and clean, but if it happens again you already have a hole there and that hole is filled with scar tissue. … Scar tissue isn’t as healthy as original tissue. It doesn’t have the same blood supply; (it is) not as durable.”

https://www.mlb.com/news/shohei-ohtani-to-keep-hitting-with-ucl-tear

Yet another reminder that the state religion of baseball writers is frequentism. Shohei Ohtani has broken every model yet people are convinced they can forecast his post-injury performance.

Shohei Ohtani has torn his UCL again and here's why that's a good thing...

and here's why that's bad news for the rangers

from the Otani alt thread:

Ohtani's Elbow:

Why would LAA want, or let Ohtani pitch this season after the elbow injury? Is there ANY reasoning behind this?

Jay Jaffe:

The Angels had almost nothing to lose by testing Ohtani's elbow. If he has the surgery now, there's a reasonable shot he can still DH for most/all of next season while not pitching, but if they waited until spring for the surgery, he'd be unable to do either.

Jeff Fletcher, who covers the Angels for the Orange County Register, put it well in a tweet:

"If Ohtani had TJ surgery on June 7, 2018 -- the day the sprain was discovered -- he'd be out till 2020.

"If he has it tomorrow, he'll be out till 2020.

"If he has it a week from now, he'll be out till 2020."

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:01 AM (four years ago)

re: 2xTJs. Ryu's been back for 4 starts, ERA+ of 226. hope he continues to pitch effectively

the thing i'd keep in mind is that contract he has been building up to this offseason is predicated on him being a two way player. he'd still get a giant deal, prob the biggest in the game, if he was going to just be a hitter, but the eye-popping american sports record setting contract that was certainly coming requires him to be valued as a two way player. so my guess is that his people will be in no rush to say "yeah it's best if he never pitches again." even if, realistically speaking, that's where this is inevitably headed

personally i think he's too good of a pitcher to just never pitch again -- especially if he was on a team that genuinely had a chance to win the world series he'd be very valuable in a playoff setting. i could see a team coming up w/ a plan to get him enough starts in the regular season to stay sharp but not really pushing him as a SP until the stretch run/playoffs. or just converting him to a lights out 2 inning reliever.

― J0rdan S., Thursday, August 24, 2023 12:58 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

yeah I’m sure the salary projections are going to have to be adjusted to account for the fact that he’s probably not throwing 180 innings year in and year out. but I don’t see why he wouldn’t keep pitching, as you said he’s really good at it and it’s not like it’s going to make him a worse hitter.

maybe this seems like the wrong time to bring this up but I also don’t really understand why he doesn’t play the field. the injury risk in right field or first base or whatever is minimal and if you really want to talk about the value of opening up a roster spot, why not let someone else DH who otherwise couldn’t add value in the field

should point out I didn’t read the posts that followed that one which mention him playing the field — for the record I was referring to before the injury and in a year or so once he’s recovered, I doubt it would be smart to do it any time in the next 12 months

Before the injury? I might be overthinking it but he wants to pitch. That’s really it. I could see him doing it until his arm falls off, honestly, it seems that important to him. He considers both aspects of his game to be so deeply important that he didn’t sign with an NL team, he calls his own game, and he has eight different pitches that he uses.

Jesus Christ

Of note: Angels GM Perry Minasian said that despite Ohtani suffering from cramping and arm fatigue that caused him to push back starts during this season, the team didn't do any related imaging on his arm until this past week.

— Laura Albanese (@AlbaneseLaura) August 25, 2023

When will the angels change?

That's incredible.

Don’t ask don’t tell generational talent edition

just a thought about him playing 1B with a torn UCL...

i would guess not, unless you're just going to give up on him ever pitching again

It won’t last, so I just want to preserve this. pic.twitter.com/HaDM1vvLOJ

— Adam Darowski (@baseballtwit) August 24, 2023

https://i.ibb.co/3CmTmYP/Screenshot-2023-08-27-at-9-15-03-AM.png

lol

re: ohtani's upcoming free agency and the effect of this injury on his contract, i wonder if he would consider a contract with incentives depending on how many innings he pitches? i'm just throwing this out there, but say he gets a baseline $25-30M a year for his hitting alone, and then maybe an extra $1M for every 10 innings he pitches, something like that?

I could imagine him taking a one year DH deal while his arm heals and then going for the two way contract.

Idly wondering if the Mariners chances of getting him have increased cos of this injury:

- Mariners desperately in need of a big hitter and if they don’t go far in the postseason this year that could be their final piece
- Can work with/rehab with the pitchers they have there and Mariners pitching development is used to rehabbing and rebuilding guys
- the Ichiro factor (he lives there and is at the park and even does leaping outfield catches during bp sometimes)
- lots of promising young talent on the roster to play with (Julio, Kirby, Kelenic etc)
- Ohtani lived in Seattle during two off seasons and liked it!

Julio nicely asking Shohei to vacate the cage for him at the ASG - what could be

On that note, whichever team signs Shohei will likely try to get him to do more for them. He’s kept an extremely low profile considering, but that might change depending on where he signs and what they pay him.

and then maybe an extra $1M for every 10 innings he pitches, something like that?

are you even allowed to do contracts like this? like in the NFL you'd have RBs with incentives like "$5 million if you get 200 carries" where you'd suddenly start seeing the backup a lot more once they hit 150, which might actually be for very legit load management reasons but also tends to give everyone conspiracybrain

you can, but I think they can only be based on playing time and awards. So like Yelich's contract he gets:

$100,000 for MVP ($75,000 for second in vote, $50,000 for third). $50,000 each for All Star, Silver Slugger, WS MVP, Aaron Award, Comeback Player of Year. $25,000 each for Gold Glove, LCS MVP.

Jesse Winker (to pick another Brewer) gets:

2023 performance bonuses: $100,000 each for 500, 550 plate appearances. $200,000 for 600 PA.
award bonuses: $150,000 for MVP. $100,000 for WS MVP. $50,000 each for All Star election, LCS MVP, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove. $25,000 for All Star selection.

i think a team would be fine to give him a contract based on an incentive structure around i.e. innings pitched

the thing is that all that really matters in the contract negotiations is leverage. i think ohtani's people will say "he is going to be an elite starting pitcher and an elite hitter and his contract will reflect that." there is no reason for him to accept anything based on incentives unless no team is offering him a contract that values him as a full time pitcher. and maybe that's what will happen, but if the bidding gets intense enough then the leverage very likely shifts ohtani's way to the point that a team may have to pay him like a full time SP to win his signature over other bidders. maybe every suitor holds the line on the pitching thing. i bet one caves tho

i bet one caves tho

yeah, same. it's easy to make the "a rich guy will win prediction" but iirc super-rich people sometimes have this ego problem where they have to have the biggest prize, and one of those guys is likely to pay a premium for him

If I was more motivated I'd like to track on Statcast what his SLG average is pre/post UCL tear. Anecdotally it seems like he's still hitting but without pre-injury launch angle/batspeed or both.

I mean, it would be a tiny sample either way

Shohei Ohtani came up with discomfort and was limping after this play and headed to the clubhouse.

pic.twitter.com/S0G3xVZwiw

— John Clark (@JClarkNBCS) August 29, 2023

truly cursed organization

Today was Angels photo day. But Shohei Ohtani wasn’t available for it. So they used a body double, and will presumably photoshop him in. He was taken through a back exit by Angels PR. pic.twitter.com/5yFuDjLw4o

— Sam Blum (@SamBlum3) September 5, 2023

Ohtani hasn’t played in a game since the 3rd. :( he was supposed to be in the lineup yesterday but was scratched and wasn’t in it today.

The Angels medical team might be worse than the Yankees’.

Has he been spotted in the dugout? I'm curious if he low-key flew back to JP to get a second opinion on his injury.

Huh. I didn’t know the answer, last picture of him on Getty images is September 3rd.

He was "unavailable" for the team picture on Sept 5th.

Yeah saw that, but had no idea he wasn’t even in the dugout until you just brought it up. He must be back if they listed him as available but I haven’t seen mention if him being seen there on Twitter.

He was on the field in Philly on 9/8 so my theory is debunked.

Man needed to get a cheesesteak in, fuck it, seasons done

Shohei Ohtani’s locker has been cleared out. There’s a bag that’s packed.

The Angels have declined to say tonight why this is happening or what it means.

— Sam Blum (@SamBlum3) September 16, 2023

Welp... what a wacky ending to one of the most unusual seasons on record.

If the Angels actually ruined him by running him out every day & not treating him properly - can you fucking imagine

Just tallied his stats... bref has him at 10.0 WAR (6.0 batting + 4.0 pitching) which has him tied for 173rd in highest single season WAR ever (6th highest among active players, what is up 2009 Zack Greinke!?):

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_bat_season.shtml

wrong link there (that's just batters), correct link for pitchers/batters:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_season.shtml

West coast Mets

please. there is a nobility to the mets' failings that LAA can only dream of

On the IL with oblique injury, season officially done

glad I can say I saw him play, even if it was only hitting.

Shohei Ohtani had surgery this morning. Here’s a statement from his agent, Nez Balelo … pic.twitter.com/ES2RSp1rOJ

— Alden González (@Alden_Gonzalez) September 19, 2023

Worth noting that the MD who performed the surgery is the Head Team Physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Same doc who just worked on Aaron Rodgers as well.

he does all the big stars now that james andrews is in his 80s

xps yeah Dr Robert Anderson is the foot equivalent for a ton of teams as well

the lebron james of elbows

https://archive.ph/xmD9b

not quite the takedown i was expecting but still a good read

I'm not sure what you were expecting, I think the Angels got eviscerated in that piece. What a backwards, messed up organization.

The Angels now offer meals in spring training, and for all its flaws, the minor-league facility at least has an indoor weight room.

Shohei ohtani is now married ❤️

Rumors have it his wife is Mamiko Tanaka, former basketball star.

大谷翔平さんの結婚相手と噂の、元女子バスケットボール選手の田中真美子さん。

身長180cmの美女だ.ᐟ
でもどうなんだろ…動画は同一人物？

一般女性だと思ってたが…元バスケ選手
今日の囲み取材楽しみだねー

大谷の嫁になったらデコピンと遊べるw
もしそうならお似合いだなー https://t.co/V1mkYoRi7T pic.twitter.com/P5V3OYPAPB

— rila 𓍯りら (@rila_rila_ka) February 29, 2024

I'm happy not knowing. Guy obviously taking measures to keep his private life private, impressive he's been able to keep things under wraps so well with his stature.

What the fuck!

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-03-20/gambling-story

Representatives of Dodgers superstar Shohei Ohtani on Wednesday accused his interpreter of engaging in a “massive theft” of the ballplayer’s funds to place bets with an allegedly illegal bookmaker who is the target of a federal investigation.

Lawyers for Ohtani made that claim after The Times learned that Ohtani’s name had surfaced in the investigation of Mathew Bowyer, an Orange County resident. Ohtani’s representatives looked into the actions of the interpreter, Ippei Mizuhara, in response to The Times’ queries, a source close to the matter said. Two sources told the newspaper that the money involved was in the millions of dollars.

In a statement, the West Hollywood law firm Berk Brettler, said, “In the course of responding to recent media inquiries, we discovered that Shohei has been the victim of a massive theft and we are turning the matter over to the authorities.”

Attempts to reach Mizuhara were unsuccessful. Mizuhara placed bets with Bowyer, according to the sources, who requested anonymity to share sensitive information.

The Dodgers on Wednesday fired Mizuhara, a team spokesman said.

Everything happens to him!

And on that bombshell

SEOUL, South Korea — Police in South Korea were investigating a bomb threat on Wednesday against baseball star Shohei Ohtani, who is in Seoul for Major League Baseball’s first regular-season games in the country.

They were alerted by the South Korean Consulate in Vancouver, which received an email written in English threatening to bomb the 18,000-seat Gocheok Sky Dome in the South Korean capital, where Ohtani’s Los Angeles Dodgers are playing the San Diego Padres.

The Dodgers’ trip to Asia has drawn legions of fans, with Ohtani the headline act.

After searching with sniffer dogs, X-ray detectors and other equipment, police said no sign of a bomb had been found and that they were providing additional security at the season opener on Wednesday, which is reportedly sold out.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/shohei-ohtani-bomb-threat-mlb-baseball-south-korea-rcna144197

This story is insane

https://www.espn.co.uk/mlb/story/_/id/39768770/dodgers-shohei-ohtani-interpreter-fired-theft

Ippei Mizuhara, the longtime friend and interpreter for Ohtani, incurred the gambling debts to a Southern California bookmaking operation that is under federal investigation, multiple sources told ESPN. How he came to lose his job started with reporters asking questions about the wire transfers.

Initially, a spokesman for Ohtani told ESPN the slugger had transferred the funds to cover Mizuhara's gambling debt. The spokesman presented Mizuhara to ESPN for a 90-minute interview Tuesday night, during which Mizuhara laid out his account in great detail. However, as ESPN prepared to publish the story Wednesday, the spokesman disavowed Mizuhara's account and said Ohtani's lawyers would issue a statement.

"In the course of responding to recent media inquiries, we discovered that Shohei has been the victim of a massive theft, and we are turning the matter over to the authorities," read the statement from Berk Brettler LLP.

The spokesman declined to answer any further questions, and the statement did not specify whom they believe perpetrated the alleged theft.

When asked by ESPN on Wednesday afternoon -- after the Berk Brettler statement -- if he had been accused of theft, Mizuhara said he was told he could not comment but declined to say by whom.

After Ohtani agreed to pay the debts, Mizuhara said on Tuesday, Ohtani logged onto his own computer and sent the wire transfers under Mizuhara's supervision in installments over several months last year. They added "loan" to the description field in the transactions.

"We had to add a description for the wire," Mizuhara said. "I think Matt (Bowyer)might have told me to just put 'loan.' You had to put something."

Asked why Ohtani didn't simply give him the money instead of paying Bowyer's associate directly, Mizuhara said Ohtani didn't trust him with the money.

"He didn't want me to gamble it away," Mizuhara said.

Mizuhara said he told Ohtani he would pay him back.

When an ESPN reporter asked Ohtani's camp about the allegation from Mizuhara that Ohtani was present and helped move the funds and that he was going to be paid back, the spokesman contacted Ohtani's attorneys, who then issued the statement saying he was the victim of a "massive theft."

Mizuhara, though, Wednesday afternoon, walked back much of what he had said late Tuesday, saying Ohtani had no knowledge of his gambling activities, debts or efforts to repay them.

"Obviously, this is all my fault, everything I've done," he said. "I'm ready to face all the consequences."

He said he did not have legal representation but was "working on it." He said he spoke with ESPN Wednesday afternoon on his own free will.

He reiterated, though, that he had never bet on baseball.

lol

but not even the biggest scandal in japan headlines today if you can believe that.

:(

xp it’s going to be really bad for Ippei in Japan, he’s nearly as famous as Ohtani himself

From last month:

Gambler Matt Bowyer, whose Cali home was raided by federal agents last month, the same day his @ResortsWorldLV
host's phone was seized by feds, is being represented by Irvine federal criminal defense attorney Diane Bass, a source confirms.
11:00 AM · Nov 16, 2023

This is tied to a federal investigation and Ippei got mixed up with the wrong dudes. Yikes.

"Shohei Otani" is visible alongside various bank account and wire-transfer information and the word "loan."

I've seen enough, this thread needs to get locked and the other thread needs to be resurrected:

let's get excited about...shohei otani

Definitely fishy that Ippei's story keeps changing though, smells like there will be more news to come...

Why would Ohtani’s spokespeople arrange an interview with ESPN with one story and then he walks it back the next day and they publish both?’

*dons tinfoil hat*

Ok, let's say Ippei is the fall guy and Ohtani got outed by the Feds who let the MLB know and then MLB/LAD agree that his punishment is Ohtani's contract gets structured so that he doesn't earn $fuckyoumoney until 2033 when he's matured and grown out of some irresponsible bad habits...

...

...

Or can’t gamble it away

conspiracy.gif

Damn that's some real tinfoiling. I love it

I don’t know anything about the actual gambling aspect of it, is it feasible one could use a dodgy bookmaker and think it’s legit? Though maybe you have to go to a dodgy one to lose that much money?

Welcome to the podcast, we're going to be talking about Shohei's gambling scandal today... first a bit of business.. we have new merch sponsored by DraftKings

rules for thee but not for me

Let the man bet on himself, he's making peanuts! He's got a wife and dog to feeed!

if he was betting on the Angels he probably needs the $700 mil

You’ll recall that he deferred it for ten years so he can’t…even if he wanted to…which he definitely doesn’t

shohei: yeah I'll just take 2mil right now, I'll make the rest through..... "endorsements" ;)

league is kind of in a no win situation here, if they sweep it under the rug people will say they're playing favorites with their marquee player, if they punish him while still running 500 Fanduel ads on every broadcast it looks even dumber

there are layers. if he's betting on other sports, off of team facilities, it's a lenient suspension. if he's betting on other sports on team facilities, it's a more serious suspension. if he's betting on baseball, or worse yet, betting on baseball games involving himself, that's when it gets real

Players can't bet on other sports off of team facilities? Sure about that?

Frogs otm

There is nothing worse for baseball than gambling. That's what I've always said, and that's what I'll say when I'm podcasting in the DraftKings Sports Podcast Booth in the Luxor Level of the Las Vegas A's stadium.

— Grant Brisbee (@GrantBrisbee) March 20, 2024

Shohei Ohtani has always bet on himself – and it’s about to reap huge rewards.https://t.co/dWeOtJbVjQ

— CNN (@CNN) July 11, 2023

omg

Pretty big (5.3M) quake just hit Tokyo, what are the odds?

Players can't bet on other sports off of team facilities? Sure about that?

that's the nfl rule, i think

Pretty big (5.3M) quake just hit Tokyo, what are the odds?

― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, March 20, 2024 9:33 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

ippei had 25-1 on 6.0 or bigger

Omg

Haven't caught up yet, so I know very little. Except: someone will be popping up any minute to re-litigate his HOF case.

Clem:

Sports betting is illegal in California
Mathew Bowyer, an illegal bookie in Orange County, is under investigation from the FEDs/IRS
4 months ago Bowyer's house was raided and his assets and devices were seized
LA Times FOIA'd the docs and noticed two $500k wires from "Shohei Otani" in the wire-transfer data both with the line item comment "loan"
LA Times reported that $4.5M was wired from Shohei's account to Bowyer or his various associates

Ippei Mizuhara is a Japanese-American interpreter for Shohei Ohtani
His salary is ~$300k/yr from the LAD, up from ~$200k/yr from the LAA

Ippei Mizuhara gave an interview yesterday where he admitted he had a massive gambling problem and he claimed to ask Shohei to repay his debts
Ippei claimed Shohei did the wire transfers himself from his password-protected personal computer because he did not trust Ippei with the money

Later yesterday, Mizuhara gave ANOTHER interview in which he denied Shohei had any involvement in the wire-transfers and had no knowledge of Ippei's gambling debts

Ohtani's lawyers come out with a statement that Mizuhara stole $4.5M from Ohtani

LAD fire Mizuhara

I will defer to the lovely felicity redwell on all things legal, but I am willing to wager (😉) sending wire transfers for illegal activity under false pretense ("loan") is not looked upon favorably by federal investigators.

so you see, your honour, i allowed my friend to use my computer and that’s why it might LOOK to the layperson that i visited those websites myself

Oh no tani

i know they were best buds but would ippei really have access not only to shohei’s computer but to his bank accounts containing millions of dollars and the presumably somewhat elaborate verification steps involved in moving that amount of money?? cmon man

I'm curious who the Ohtani "representative" is who made Ippei available for interviews.

if it really was that amount of money i suppose it is possible that the bookies were laying down some heavy threats and shohei really did cover the loss, the first story was correct, and ippei’s trying to protect his friend by telling the second story because he now realises how much hot water the first story puts shohei in. sorry just catching up lol