Nicki Minaj - The Pink Print (2014)

gunning for the patriarchy, flipping the male gaze, flipping rape culture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKvr3ugbebk

previously

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1tO7yQ0dE

it's like "No Scrubs" but tooled up :D

i generally find the idea of nicki minaj more interesting than the actual output of nicki minaj, but if this -- "gunning for the patriarchy . . . flipping rape culture" -- is an accurate description of the album's vibe and demeanor, i want to hear it.

setting everything else aside, her star-turn in kanye's monster was otherworldly good, obv.

the beat on the new one is serious, anyone know who produced?

one throwaway line saying "i'm raping you" constitutes "flipping rape culture"?

song are good tho

i guess it was Detail

And she'll ruin it all with some terrible Max Martin collab, right?

she so skilled it's great

Is the album title confirmed anywhere?

gonna be a good year, i can tell

Is the album title confirmed anywhere?

mypinkfriday.com is her official site, right?

Oh, okay. When I went there right after the video was released and that name was flying around, that post with the title wasn't up.

ive been randomly saying "say my twitter pic remind him of naomi UH" line from that chris brown song idk why

http://i.imgur.com/oHpo8k2.gif

Love this new one so much

I'm here for this

yup this is how you do it

she's bringing it this year

Yeah cool

it's like "No Scrubs" but tooled up :D

― the undersea world of jacques kernow (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu4iYTrJbwk

"flipping rape culture" is.... a bit generous

it's gonna bother me to no end if they call this The Pink Print and not The Pinkprint

Maybe it's a fashion reference and not what you're thinking of.

i guess it could be both but it's definitely a reference to the blueprint, c'mon

^ Yeah

i mean there's a song on roman reloaded called "hov lane"

maybe it's just about carpooling

she's flipping commuter culture

Someone Photoshop a traffic vest to a shot of her in the video and traffic wands instead of guns please.

i like the new song but yeah it doesn't sit right to act like the "you can't get with me unless you have money" conceit is pro-feminist

j0rdan otm about pinkprint too, that's a good title as is, fashion pun is a bridge too far

i am excited for this

yeah i guess i am not as impressed by 'rhyming the same word with itself over and over' as others. and the class stuff is pretty vile too (99% stand up).

so often when i hear nicki rap i want her to take on some, any other subject, just for the sake of sheer novelty

Maura spot on. The track is fine, but the idea that there's a progressive message (or even real, significant thought) behind the sub-IANAHB2 garbage that comes out of her mouth and that we must celebrate her for speaking rare, important truths is just insane to me.

this track loses a lot w/o the visual i think... it's mostly just a sketch of a song otherwise

that rape line is really not cool

I dont even get how this attacks patriarchy, even slightly. It attacks men she's not attracted to because they aren't successful enough.

Right. If anything it reinforces patriarchy.

This makes me want to play "Sucka Nigga" at full volume on loop for about an hour.

http://theculture.forharriet.com/2014/02/nicki-minaj-uses-iconic-malcolm-x-image.html

Students of Civil Rights history will recall Dr. King broke from Malcolm X after his controversial 1964 call for broke-scrub rape

you should have rethought every single part of that joke

i love nicki for the sociopathic hedonistic ultracapitalist thrills and i'm excited for this album but you have to work p fuckin hard to get progressivism out of her money-and-aggression shtick. the closest she comes to actually being progressive is that song where she lists all the famous women she's hanging out with. that isn't very close. i like her cuz her narcissism's a rush.

the most patriarchy-hostile stuff she does is the goopy pop songs that boys hate.

I agree w Maura, that said we've tolerated gross lines from dudes that can rap their ass off forever

they had much smaller asses, though

biggie could fill out a thong

I haven't tolerated those lines.

But whatever.

sorry

he thought he was on the rap bro thread when he wrote that "we"

True

"The word "nigga" causes so much debate in our community while the "nigga" behavior gets praised and worship."

Nicki noooooooo http://instagram.com/p/kXxSthL8Vv/

Don't know if this flips the male gaze, but maybe puts it on blast a bit, what with her walking around rapping about having no time for guys intercut with disembodied male eyes leering at her before she machine guns them down. Also didn't read that as anti-broke dude so much as anti-dudes who front and talk shit but are going nowhere. I mean, unless we're about to retroactively declare "No Scrubs" to be classist reinforcement of patriarchy, not really sure how it differs much from something like that give or take several dozen curse words.

That rape line's still beyond unnecessary.

can we not blurred-lines nicki please

(by "we" I mean "we, the thinkpiece public," not "we, this thread")

I think we have to get past the "black people are annoyed by the Malcom X imagery, esp. during Black History Month" storm first before we get to the "is this actually progressive?" argument

Too late, katherine:

http://massappeal.com/nicki-minaj-eat-crusty-boxer-briefs-nia/
http://jezebel.com/nicki-minajs-new-song-is-a-rapey-waste-of-time-1521690861

The use of the imagery was clumsy bc it looked like the title was talking about malcolm rather than her identifying w/ malcolm, she shoulda just dressed up like him a la KRS One

although people would prob still be like "At least KRS One wasn't showing off his 'assets'!"

That Mass Appeal piece was terrible respectability politics run amok.

I'm not giving Jezebel any clicks.

Yeah, that Jez piece isn't any better. Conflates that rape line with her going pop.

this track loses a lot w/o the visual i think... it's mostly just a sketch of a song otherwise

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:05 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Part of the appeal is this, I think, like no chorus, just going hard for 40 bars or however many there are

Kinda like Dreams & Nightmares Intro

Don't think I can make it past the first paragraph of that Mass Appeal piece

sacha jenkins! haven't seen that name in awhile

TREY SONGZ NO

https://soundcloud.com/buyamadeustrack/trigga-look-yall

oh noooooo

Kinda like Dreams & Nightmares Intro

― 龜, Thursday, February 13, 2014 7:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

-_-

"lookin ass" is more like a mixtape freestyle than anything

I chose that example also cause of the way she modulates her emotional output

Don't know if this flips the male gaze, but maybe puts it on blast a bit, what with her walking around rapping about having no time for guys intercut with disembodied male eyes leering at her before she machine guns them down. Also didn't read that as anti-broke dude so much as anti-dudes who front and talk shit but are going nowhere. I mean, unless we're about to retroactively declare "No Scrubs" to be classist reinforcement of patriarchy, not really sure how it differs much from something like that give or take several dozen curse words.

― Greer, Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah this is p much what i think. the status stuff is not progressive and has never been but...

I agree w Maura, that said we've tolerated gross lines from dudes that can rap their ass off forever

― sXe & the banshees (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, February 13, 2014 6:24 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is the context. i don't know, the rape line is easy to condemn and i'm not sure i want to defend it but this is the context. i don't think any woman, even scattergun nicki, would go there in a blasé, it doesn't mean anything, it's just a metaphor, mealy-mouthed way. it's a "how does it feel to be on the receiving end, once, of something women experience all the time" moment. is it the best way of making her point? is it progressive? probably not. does it perpetuate rape culture? unfortunately, you can't argue that it doesn't. but look at the comments underneath the video. and look at this trey songz nonsense. this song and that line has dudes shook.

also, looking at this from the perspective of the evolution of nicki minaj: look, she's historically gunned for fellow women. not just the lil kim maybe-specific stuff but "these bitches are my sons" etc. the people on the receiving end of her disses were almost always women, rarely men. the past year or so she's visibly shifted her focus to eviscerating men - "i'm out", "boss ass bitch" and now this.

this track loses a lot w/o the visual i think... it's mostly just a sketch of a song otherwise

well...yeah, did you think it was anything other than this? nicki's obviously still in the "whetting your appetite with remixes and freestyles" stage of the album campaign

I guess my reaction is "what kind of weak-ass dude do you have to be to be shook by this?" which is pretty much an entirely different thread

I guess my reaction is "what kind of weak-ass dude do you have to be to be shook by this?" which is pretty much an entirely different thread

well...indeed. but there they are, shook.

i hadn't even seen the malcolm x artwork til i read that thinkpiece.

the real bummer is that lex might be right that Nicki is trying to say something but hip hop has such an ingrained, gross sex-as-violence, sex-as-financial-transaction, sent as gassed to onto rt dominance attitude that what passes as feminism to her is lashing out in the same way as men do

:/

Wtf autocorrect - that's sex as assertion of dominance

yeah i agree with that

It's her Dogville, basically.

it's her descent

sent as gassed to onto rt dominance

upcoming nicki minaj promo video Sent Ass Gassed

Aww, she thinks she's Bey. http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2014/02/nicki-minajs-new-album-will-not-have-a-release-date/

Trey Songz made a response song. I'm not going to link to it, I just want you to know that it exists.

I find the fact that Trey did a response song funny/interesting considering that he was on an official remix for the Mariah single, which came out on the same day, and we all know how Mariah and Nicki feel about each other.

It's interesting that Trey Songz thinks anyone gives a fuck what he thinks

I do :(

Really? Like you were hoping Trey Songz would weigh in on this song?

Oh, no. No. I thought you were commenting on his general relevance.

https://soundcloud.com/nickiminaj/chi-raq-by-nicki-minaj-ft-lil

hoping this hard-ass rapping-ass rapping is foreshadowing the album rather than getting it out of her system beforehand

Amen.

*knocks down a fucking building*

dope

love this

this is cool but hopefully nicki picks better beats for her album... this and the "lookin ass" beat are pretty rudimentary and boring imo

this beat is straight garbage actually

naw, I love that beat

i don't think it's a huge deal cuz it seems obv she's going for a tossed off/demo freestyle kinda vibe with these tracks but the beats sound like the leftovers of the leftovers

I had an immediate "oh fuck this is amazing" reaction to the beat. So low key menacing.

yeah...the fact that she's been in the studio w/ Mustard is encouraging but really i think a lot of her recent stuff is just getting exclamation points for not being "Starships" xp

i agree with j0rdan re: this beat but def not "lookin' ass", that's an amazing beat, so low-key menacing

I think they're both low-key menacing

And rly good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaHePDabs_w&feature=youtu.be

LOOK UP TO JADA I LOVE HER AND WILL

her "go-hard" tracks are as bad as her Lady Gaga impersonations, I'm saying

you're boring

lol

this is amazing. her voice!!!

nicki is truly 2014 mvp

oh look, a "bitches is my sons" song

Flipping the idea of having a good hook here

yea the chorus is garbage but im p in on this tbh

Yeah I like Nicki on it, rly looking fwd to the "actual" single

i dunno. the fact that she's said she's not doing a "Starships"-type pop single doesn't preclude the possibility of a super whiny "Right Thru Me"-type single.

Chorus is awesome

yaaas bitch yaas bitch? rly?

i'm sure this has happened before, where the discussion around a new nicki song rapidly veers into being 90% about the male guest. CUT IT OUT WHO CARES ABOUT HIM

Not me, fuck that guy. And tell him

xp i mean, fair enough if thats something that happens idk but its not a guest verse its the chorus of the song

And the production, and Soulja Boy sucks

did action bronson ghostwrite that jewish lawyer line?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q5lQRZXx8BE

I kinda love her singing on this.

between this, "lookin ass" and "chi raq" her music has gotten super humorless all of a sudden

i think even the best rapping ass rap nicki minaj songs have a sort of gleeful bounce to them. thinking of like her "donk" freestyle or "wave ya hand" or "stupid hoe" or "did it on em" or "beez in the trap" or "the boys" or "roman's revenge". that's what i really loved about he "boss ass bitch" freestyle but these last tracks are like dirges.

i mean she's still rapping her ass off but it's almost like the SERIOUS RAP peter rosenberg shit has gotten into her head a bit as far as the production goes

i like that, she's angry and showing it

lmao this chorus is deading me

nicki wildin out aggressively in all manner of outre get-ups, soulja doing the crossword in the other room

that's nice dear, that's nice dear

SERIOUS RAP peter rosenberg shit has always been in her head from the beginning tbf, regardless of current strategy

Lol lex ur so random I praised the chorus because ppl were hating on it not because it was a "male guest" smh

i think even the best rapping ass rap nicki minaj songs have a sort of gleeful bounce to them. thinking of like her "donk" freestyle or "wave ya hand" or "stupid hoe" or "did it on em" or "beez in the trap" or "the boys" or "roman's revenge". that's what i really loved about he "boss ass bitch" freestyle but these last tracks are like dirges.

i mean she's still rapping her ass off but it's almost like the SERIOUS RAP peter rosenberg shit has gotten into her head a bit as far as the production goes

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Saturday, May 3, 2014 2:58 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is otm, "Boss Ass Bitch" is the only one of the new ones i particularly care for. although i'm holding out hope that whatever Mustard is doing for her project lives up to the potential of that pairing.

i really like "lookin ass" a lot, not hugely into these other ones yet but still anticipating this

https://31.media.tumblr.com/7f95790640961ebb73926b2fb61cff6f/tumblr_n5tghfiUYE1rcao7co1_500.png

The rapper unveiled the title on the red carpet of the 2014 Billboard Music Awards on Sunday night (May 18), where she introduced Lorde's performance of "Tennis Court." Minaj also described the sound of "Pills N Potions," which precedes her third album "The Pinkprint," to Billboard's Keith Caulfield.

"It sounds like urgency," says Minaj. "It sounds like betrayal. It sounds like running. It sounds like fainting. It sounds like love. It sounds like -- *gasp!*"

...but it looks like a coffee shop singer-songwriter debut with color, fonts and border selected from a set of default templates.

ugh no nicki i did NOT want another "your love" ;_;

-----------__________________-----------

WHY NICKI WHY

the thing is, everyone remembers "Super Bass," but Pink Friday was huge before that off of 3 singles that basically sounded like this, so I'm not surprised, prob a smart move

i kind of like this but it's weirdly muted. if she was gonna go pop i think i'd rather hear another "starships"

yeah i have nothing against pop nicki in the vein of "starships" and "pound the alarm" but i have everything against watery nothingy "your love" nicki WHO THE FUCK IS HERE FOR THAT

this is basically the mushy last three-fourths of _roman reloaded_ again, right? weird how in 2014 that's the most immediately commercially salvageable part of that album

This makes me think of "Roar" for some reason.

Song is like if the verses from "Freedom" collided with the chorus from "Your Love".

I never got the "Your Love" hate but this is my favorite version:

https://soundcloud.com/diamond-bass/your-love-diamond-bass-320

I don't hate this - I found it enjoyable, actually - but it's disappointing to me in the same way most of that Angel Haze album was.

Still confident the album will deliver some firebreathing stuff.

way more confident that the Wayne album will end up good than this tbh. Mostly cuz he's bounced back in the last year or so while Nicki Minaj is doing the usual Nicki Minaj

truth be told Nicki's whole output has only been about as consistently good as the worst years of Wayne's career

Too far.

cmon you dont believe that. 'come on a cone' nicki era >>>> several years of wayne's career

truth be told Nicki's whole output has only been about as consistently good as the worst years of Wayne's career

― ςὖτ ιτ Οὖτ (some dude), Wednesday, May 21, 2014 4:25 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is more or less true

her last album is clearly better than tha carter IV, that's about all she has

that's crazy. wayne had like 2 years where the spectrum was 'awful' to 'passable' hovering mostly near the former. nicki over the same stretch was 'passable' to 'awesome' hovering mostly near the latter

the x-factor is that wayne's features were often change-the-radio-station bad during that whole period

I would dispute that her last album was better than C4 (or a lot of things) but then my non-Wayne Young Money interest is pretty limited, select Drake/Nicki songs/features aside. actually prefer hearing random Jae Millz/Mack Maine/Euro nevergonnabes spit solid verses on Wayne mixtapes to a lot of their material

you should see a therapist

so is 'pills' a tie-in with the beats speaker

http://www.beatsbydre.com/speakers/pill-2.0/nicki-pink/900-00161-01.html

lol

"wayne had like 2 years where the spectrum was 'awful' to 'passable'"

2012-first half of 2013? Think that Jeremih guest verse was where he bottomed out

his last mixtape was 95% trash

nah

I mean even disregarding that it's a massive improvement on D4 think it was pretty solid

people always just name a Nicki song they love to handwave the dozens they would never voluntarily listen to, i'm talking about song-for-song consistency

There are more Nicki songs I would willingly listen to from the last 2 years than there are Wayne songs I'd do the same with.

Champion off the last one was p cool actually. sorta Moment 4 Life-ish, same producer though so makes sense

also liked Right by My Side although seems like most people don't

"i am not a human being 2" is more consistent than any nicki album.

yeah, not sure even I'd go that far

Is "pills and Potions" supposed to be Nicki tryna be like Lorde?

haha that seems plausible

well I had heard the song many times and it didn't rilly make an impression, but the video I saw on VH1soul is all moody Nicki, no glam, etc etc.

it's still pretty lol to me that she described pills & potions as sounding "like urgency" before it was released when...there was so much more urgency in those buzz songs she put out beforehand

i like the percussion on this song - as far as sia-style songs go it's better than most. and the video is cute. but yeah obv she can do much better.

https://soundcloud.com/nickiminaj/no-flex-zone-remix-feat-nicki-minaj

oh my godddddd she is incredible

~thought you kneeeeeeew better~

yesss

This leaked in low quality. I anticipate it being divisive.

Anaconda I mean.

Haven't heard it. Does it sample Sir Mixalot?

indeed it does

it didn't sound very good tbh but the quality was insanely poor

I think it sounds ridiculous and I love that it couldn't be any further away from Pills N Potions.

http://www.audiomack.com/song/youheardthatnew/anaconda

This song is incredibly fun.

Found myself some wifi in remote rural transylvania just to listen to this. Yes nicki!!!

This kind of goes completely off the rails once she disappears. Like whyyyy would it have the exact same breakdown except done 12x more clunkily? Really fun until then, mind you.

yep. fun for the most part though. i so much prefer fun smartass badass nicki than bubblegum singing nicki

like dun d-d-dun-dun d-d-dun dun

+ vg otm

This kind of goes completely off the rails once she disappears. Like whyyyy would it have the exact same breakdown except done 12x more clunkily? Really fun until then, mind you.

― The Reverend, Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:49 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah this is my final judgment too. so so fun (and idk how it's doing commercially but it sounds like exactly the kind of thing she should be going for to score a ~hit as well) and then it goes on pointlessly for at least a minute more than it should

i think the final minute is the only good part. the rest of the song is really clunky, it's like watching a car with an engine that keeps sputtering out

it's funny to think that Polow Da Don and Da Internz and another producer all worked together to assemble this, the track sounds like something literally anybody could've thought of and executed. whole thing is so boringly on the nose.

completely agreed w/ j0rdan. i like it more than i did initially and it is 'fun' but i think it could have been executed much better.

some dude on the mark; the only thing this does to me is make me feel old.
"FUCK THEM SKINNY ASS BITCHES" screaming seems like tumblr essay bait.
The Lil' Wayne style laughing sounds hella fake and joyless.
nagl all round

The Lil' Wayne style laughing sounds hella fake and joyless.

ok yeah, this is the single worst thing abt it

nicki's verses >>>> beat >>>>>>>> hook >>>>>>>> "oh my god look at her butt" >>>>>>>> bizarro screaming about skinny bitches >>>>>>> nicki cackling >>>>>>>> song not stopping when it needs to. the first two of those are very very good, the next two are eye-rolly but tolerable, the last three are problems. nicki's cackling usually kinda works but it does seem rote here. it doesn't help that she's trumped herself twice within a week of its release (and that a bunch of her tracks this year have been so next-level).

I do feel like she's gonna go the Wayne route and devolve into a bunch of annoying verbal & rhyming tics

Sometimes she reminds me of Chino XL when she gets technical

her rapping-ass rapping has been as strong as it's ever been this year though, notwithstanding the annoyances (minor or major) that will always be around the corner (usually on her most prominent songs) in her career

and yeah occasionally the tics can be overdone but in general i think she balances them well (across her body of work rather than within any given song), many of them are still effective and they're definitely not cause for overall concern

I guess she's not a total drug addict like Wayne so there's not that factor

at this point nicki 2014 (inc the final days of 2013) kinda goes

1. lookin' ass
2. boss ass bitch (remix)
3. my n*gga (remix)
4. flawless (remix)
5. yasss bish!!
6. no flex zone (remix)
7. low
8. anaconda
9. chi-raq
10. she came to give it to you
11. touchin, lovin
12. danny glover (remix)
13. pills n potions

"Boss Ass Bitch" and "Danny Glover" are hot verses but most of the other stuff has just seemed to me like a lot of attitude, no real memorable moments or great lines

i did the math the other day and literally an entire third of "Pills N Potions" is the "I STILL LOVE I STILL LOVE I STILL LUH UH UH" part, which is just inexcusable.

1. lookin' ass
2. boss ass bitch (remix)
3. my n*gga (remix)
4. flawless (remix)
5. yasss bish!!
6. no flex zone (remix)
7. low
8. anaconda
9. chi-raq
10. she came to give it to you
11. touchin, lovin
12. danny glover (remix)
13. pills n potions

666. Bang Bang

"FUCK THEM SKINNY ASS BITCHES" screaming seems like tumblr essay bait.

lol i have a feeling someone is going to write a thinkpiece about this line and the similar one from the meghan trainor song if it hasn't happened already

the fake laughing in "Anaconda" is so fucking annoying

nah it's almost the best part

talk about damning w/faint praise

it's the most Female Weezy thing she's ever done

lol i have a feeling someone is going to write a thinkpiece about this line and the similar one from the meghan trainor song if it hasn't happened already

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/all-your-bass-are-belong-to-us

(robin james is good tho)

"boss ass bitch" remix is one of the craziest rap songs of the year and she spits on "lookin ass" and "chiraq" but i'm mostly with shiplo on this one

idk why but she cant release a good song to save her life rn

the trollingest thing i really believe that i've resisted trotting out in public over the last few months is that Iggy's album is really well produced and people would fall over themselves with praise if a Nicki album ever had those beats.

I don't think anyone's issue with Azalea is the beats.

I could believe that. Still not ever going to listen to an Iggy Azalia album tho.

sure, sure. i'm just saying, sonically it's almost precisely the rap/pop intersection i feel like people want out of a Nicki LP that she never seems to hit upon. obviously Nicki a big precursor to her sound too, but just interesting given how rudderless Nicki's taste in beats/songs has become.

I don't think anyone's issue with Azalea is the beats.

― uxorious gazumping (monotony), Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:07 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk I hate the "Fancy" beat, although yes the hook is worse (not her tho)

Disagree on both counts - beat could pass as dj mustard and Charli is easily the best thing about the song.

idk it's too girly for me, nohomophobic

i have mixed feelings about the "Fancy" beat, meant more the other tracks on the album (although not so much the other single with Rita Ora, that's pretty bland)

I do expect there to be a buzzaonthebeatho drop everytime I hear it although when you think about it there are differences

My chief beef with Azalea-as-artist has always been her terrible rapping, not bad beats. The fact that she has good beats being wasted only makes it worse. Black Widow being a prime example of this. Her bars on that are baffingly shit, like "how were you not asked to re-record this" levels of shit. Anyway, Anaconda video is out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs&feature=youtu.be

drake huh

i really h8 this song

lol @ breaking the banana in half, lol @ leaving drake with his head in his hands

iggy definitely wastes a lot of good beats on her album but her problem is largely being boring rather than actively terrible - "fancy" works as a great pop song (aside from having an awesome beat, despite charli's chorus being awkwardly shoehorned in) because she constantly lights on catchy vocal hooks and tics, which she really fails to do elsewhere on the album. so little sticks out, and the sia-style blustery choruses don't help.

i toyed with liked 'new bitch' off iggy's alb but she is really too unpleasant

"fuck love" is the only non-"fancy"/"work" track i fuck with, maybe because it's so outright unpleasant

ya i wasnt against unplez content as such, more that she puts this nasty douchey vibe all over things

anyway 'anaconda' song + video is a human tragedy on every level

nicki shows her ass more in the song than in the video imo

idk it's too girly for me, nohomophobic

Lol at masculinity.

it's always funny when someone stumbles into actually explicitly saying "ew girly!" rather than cloaking it in objectivity

I still think "Anaconda" is really fun until it just turns into a shitty trap remix. Love the video, you boys can all go home.

^

"aside from having an awesome beat"

really dude. Having "Blurred Lines" flashbacks where everyone except me likes the beat (that one was the same BS post-peak Neptunes Pharrell has always got criticized for BTW but for some reason got a pass) and I feel like I'm trippin'. but shit is wack

it's always funny when someone stumbles into actually explicitly saying "ew girly!" rather than cloaking it in objectivity

― lex pretend, Wednesday, August 20, 2014 12:33 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"objectivity" ? It is too girly for my tastes and I like certain girly shit

if that's a bad adjective I just think it's a lame song

It is a fun beat but I'm personally of the opinion that Iggy Australia's minstrel ass can go fuck herself.

first things first gday mate

hate on anything else about her but please no not the minstrel ass

That Drake bit is so awful, like a Mrs Brown's Boys bit or something

yeah totally

i would never have gone in on the 'massive attack' video for its pitifully clueless awkwardness had i known this was in store

oh well guess i'll have to settle for ogling

Could not make it through the song. Though at the ice skating rink with my kids yesterday I heard some weird chopped up remix of "Baby's Got Back" which was not this, afaict. Will be awesome if/when this Nicki things gets traction and they go to youtube, their preferred method of listening to music, though of course they like the pop stuff better so may just miss this mess entirely.

I love the song but the video... ugh. I don't know what I was hoping for but this isn't it.

im more into the song now tbh, i could see a DJ using it properly

idk it's too girly for me, nohomophobic

― nova, Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

most valuable new posters, def

the girlyness of fancy is the only thing to like imo, it's got a certain old school sassiness, salt n pepa, l'trimm etc etc

whats funny is its the BEAT dude thinks is too girly lololol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrTnWDTdwI

hate this song ... so girly

that part where she gives drake a lapdance is so bad
the song and video are bad in general

i've grown to like the first two verses of anaconda but then it just kinda sits there - bad sign when your extended coda gets outshone in the video by drake sitting in a chair

http://www.reddit.com/r/Nicki_Minaj/comments/2e1vyk/get_the_lotion_anacondas_here/

loooooooool

good grief.

interesting interpretations of nicki's post-modern co-opting of sexist video tropes

even the singing part feels perfunctory after "stupid hoe" and "come on a cone"

ew i didn't know that heterodudes ACTUALLY jerk off to music videos ugh

lol

and i thought the r/taylorswiftarmpit subreddit was bad

perfect nicki jpeg acccompanying that r/discush tbf

and i thought the r/taylorswiftarmpit subreddit was bad

i can't tell what's real or jokes now

can we stop having videos with shaking butts for a few months?

Nicki basically has three types of songs, her emo Katie Perry rapsing bullshit, her queen of england quirky verbal tic Japanese sex robot songs, & her busta on scenario burn down the track amazing verse songs. 2 of the 3 suck and are more likely to be on albums where the good stuff is more bound for YouTube & mixtapes so it makes sense the albums won't be that good

this song doesn't suck imo but it's also not worth reading any thinkpieces about, ever

I'm here for questioning-his-existence Drake

same

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvdjk3hIUAACFtE.jpg:large

whats funny is its the BEAT dude thinks is too girly lololol

― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 17:37 (Yesterday) Permalink

nah, it's the whole thing. you're nitpicky, sry if it's not the best word man

+ I like plenty of synthpop/more women-friendly rap so i'm not setting up some dumb "REAL raw rap" vs. this dichotomy

been jamming Rihanna/Future "Loveeeee Song" lately, super-duper girly soft

Fancy is super-girly anyway, tho maybe I'm being rly masculine reading girliness into the Clueless video. I love it, anyway

"some of my best friends are girly!"

lolanalogies

https://vine.co/v/MLaWTLHUEWT

shaking the habuttual

molly lambert <3

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/nicki-minaj-reclaims-the-twerk-in-the-anaconda-music-video/

lol that people are surprised music videos inspire masturbation, the reddit is funny though

re that article, I can appreciate sex-positive feminist ideas but I don't see how you can isolate the feminist intention in a video from the sexist reception of it

there's been these terrible ads for protein water in Denmark over the summer, and the video reminded me of them

http://i.picresize.com/images/2014/08/21/WJ3sE.jpg

The last setup involves Nicki giving Drake a lap dance and walking away after presumably giving him a boner, making this Drake’s second most embarrassing public erection after Jimmy’s classroom boner in Degrassi. Drake, of all people — stripper-fetishizing emo prince Drake — is the sexual object in “Anaconda.” And with that final inversion, Nicki more or less flips the whole twerking issue onto its stomach, where it can continue to hump the ground forever.

i don't understand this at all how is sweatpants boner drake the sexual object in this video?

you'd be surprised how many women can make an object out of "if jay-z and elliott gould had a baby"

idgi either. nicki is clearly the object of drake's desire. her desire isn't even hinted it. on that score, the only inversion i see is that she retains control, commands desire without being bound by it. but yeah, maybe we're meant to understand that he's the object simply because he's hot?

Leaving the dude w an unfulfilled boner is how every lap dance ends

have you seen showgirls? some dudes achieve fulfillment

That was a great documentary

are you suggesting kyle maclachlan didn't do his own stunts

sexay image - http://i.spearshot.com/2014/07/2a2ea10e89c05b029d77ede9673cc28c.gif

anybody got an irl example of a dude jizzing his pants during a lapdance for ums? while i don't doubt the likelihood of its existence, i got nothing for the truthers

http://m.efukt.com/21145_The_Most_Embarrassing_Public_Ejaculation_Ever.html

Leaving the dude w an unfilled boner is how every lap dance ends

^ a lesson in how to remove 3 letters from a sentence and change its meaning entirely (aka: what i thought i read at first and was like wtf ew unfilled)

of all the songs to be playing during that video lmao

Drake, of all people — stripper-fetishizing emo prince Drake — is the sexual object in “Anaconda.”

is it only on ilx that drake is considered a goofy dipshit or what

is "stripper-fetishizing emo prince" really that different from goofy dipshit?

well no, i just don't know what work "of all people" is supposed to be doing

He does dp the blank-stare/chin-scratching strip-club-dude thing well.

He DPs all day.

"papiconda" jesus fuck
http://swaggernewyork.com/2014/08/19/drakes-cameo-in-the-anaconda-preview-was-basically-to-raise-awareness-about-papiconda

Feat. Riff Raff

http://www.xxlmag.com/rap-music/new-music/2014/08/nicki-minaj-riff-raff-remix/

i think adam lambert's penis was nicknamed by his fanbase also, i wonder how many more there are

pole poll pls

the sole positive thing I can think of in connection with this song is the inevitable awards program moment when Mixalot does his thing live onstage

im more into the song now tbh, i could see a DJ using it properly

Yahhhh, dropped this at a queer party the other night and people went nuts.

^^^Shocking!

Lol yeah

From a gay male FB friend:

<i>Just watched Nicki Minaj's 'Anaconda' video. It's like a nuke dropped on the women's 'don't objectify me' movement. Nicky should just change her name to Dat Ass, as her transformation is now complete.<i/>

this did NOT blow up the crowd when played at afropunk; i saw several subgroups break out to TED talk it to death

lol at trying to picture that

i haven't seen people go nuts to anaconda, i feel like it's more a filler track in the build up to a song where the beat actually drops, good for building tension but not a release of its own

that is explicit

flies up to #2 on the hot 100 this week due to streaming - her highest charting hit ever

thank u teenage boys

they were streaming alright.

they're gonna feel pretty dumb when they learn how she flipped their gaze

i have come round to this as dj/mixshow tool (ie it sounded p fun when westwood gave it a v quick spin)

the breakdown got people pretty excited at the drake/lil wayne show in boston the other night

just drake just sit onstage with a boner while they play the end of the song?

hahhaha no this was before the BATTLE ROYALE occurred

papiconda vs weenus

papiconda vs. wheetus

Prolego dude so far the only ppl into this (vid anyway)'re teenage girls and gay men ("sample" limited to here/aatwitter, so just maybe not accurate)

they're gonna feel pretty dumb when they learn how she flipped their gaze

― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, August 27, 2014 2:08 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

a+

yeah i almost excelsiord that myself

you guys know that playing up to the male gaze and rejecting the male gaze are not mutually exclusive, right. the position of power that nicki does both those things from is the point. i for one love how she flips from "oh my god, look at her butt" to "stop looking at my ass" like they're both compatible! cuz she can and cuz they are.

you know that I get that you can make that argument in theory but that in practice a performer screaming "FUCK THE SKINNY BITCHES IN THE CLUB" over a cover song doesn't necessarily merit a vigorous debate of intention vs action, right?

and that arguing that nicki's objective is subverting power dynamics in a song where she is repeatedly stating that she's "on some dumb shit" is... well, maybe not disingenuous but at the least indicative of a very selective way of appreciating the work?

i mean bully to you for getting something positive out of tanaconda lex but this sounds DOA to me and it's primarily cause nicki's verses are not so good, the production is outstandingly lazy and the various young money tics throughout are maddening
it's not so much that you're wrong so much as why bother in support of something this pedestrian

plus i would add don't forget fart remix subverts the subversion of the subverting subversiveness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv--npievoI

yeah, was really hoping that wouldn't show up here

Whatever your opinion of this tune this song does actually. seem to be a success. Why is that? Is it just the video or does the actual song have anything to do with it?

perfect storm: nicki, deathless sir mix track, catchy enough, papiconda, nicki's butt, teens, etc.

it's the video

or that

actually "nicki's butt" is a more complete analysis since the song popped off the itunes downloads which in turn popped because of the single cover

the song is pretty weak, imo, those who say it's a build-up to nothing are otm, it doesn't actually go anywhere

also i think she's saying "i'm not some dumb shit" rather than "i'm on some dumb shit"

song sounded like a hit the first time i heard it over dodgy wifi in a remote town square in romania. it's a bit of a mess structurally but since when has that mattered

forks' argument basically = "i don't like this so why are you analysing it" - i'm not usually one to really conflate success with importance but i think in the current pop climate it's certainly pushing back against a few things in a healthy way, and the fact that men are wanking over it doesn't really change that

wtf of course she's saying "i'm on some dumb shit"

yep my mistake

I like this song more every time I hear it but I like ice-t's "the girl tried to kill me" and other dumb shit like that

in the current pop climate it's certainly pushing back against a few things in a healthy way, and the fact that men are wanking over it doesn't really change that

new board description

this song is really bad

the first out-of-context thing that popped into my head after reading that sentence was "bronies in a nutshell"

it's not really good but it's not really bad either. lots of it really, really works. it's the kind of thing that only improves with ubiquity, too - an embarrassment if it flops, the kind of thing you cave to when you hear it in the wild a lot. a bit like "starships" in that regard!

okay I'm finally listening to this and this is some lazy mid-90s-Puffy-throwback shit

the video and the pre-release hype from the single cover both contributed to its success. it started climbing rhythmic and urban radio charts rather quickly basically from the get-go, so it's not *just* the video making this song a success.

i'm generally skeezed out by overt sexuality/pornographic imagery in music (obviously this is my problem, not the artist's) & i can't really comment on whether this song is actually profound or subversive, but i like nicki's rapping on it

xp think it's also the sir mix-a-lot sample. i mean fuckin EVERYBODY knows this tune. my uncle got married at age 50-something and his bride danced to that tune

and my white brother-in-law who went to dartmouth knew every single word

i for one love how she flips from "oh my god, look at her butt" to "stop looking at my ass"

nothing about this song or video says "stop looking at my ass" at all. jesus this is some next level apologetics even for you lex

Personally, I prefered this's songs use of a "Baby Got Back" sample from earlier this year.

I like it, but I was kind of bummed when I heard it that it's just that tiny sample over and over and over and over. I was hoping for something a little more, idk, imaginative. Maybe that's the wrong word but anyway it was kind of boring

If anything the song could do with being filthier + more banging + less obviously cobbled together in 10mins.

nothing about this song or video says "stop looking at my ass" at all

I dunno, after a couple of minutes I got a bit bored and wanted to go and do something else.

I dunno, after a couple of minutes I got a bit bored and wanted to go and do something else.

So it's like aversion therapy?

forks' argument basically = "i don't like this so why are you analysing it"

i'm sure lex will be beyond delighted that he's being held accountable for my choice of words!

the hot 100 points are mostly because of the video

Following the release of its video on Aug. 19, "Anaconda" makes a 42-1 lunge on Streaming Songs with a 1,287 percent surge to 32.1 million streams; 95 percent of its total is from Vevo on YouTube. The overall sum is the highest since Miley Cyrus' "Wrecking Ball" drew 36.4 million streams (Sept. 28, 2013) following the first full week after its video premiered. The greatest streaming total since the chart launched on March 2, 2013, and the only other song (in addition to "Wrecking Ball") to tally more weekly streams than "Anaconda": Baauer's "Shake" peaked with 103 million (powered heavily by user-generated clips featuring the song's audio) the week that the survey debuted.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6229439/taylor-swift-shake-it-off-no-1-hot-100-nicki-minaj-anaconda

like it probably would have been top 10, but definitely not ahead of the other song about butts in the top 5, without the video

A song has to have a popular video to go #1 these days, right?

Meanwhile in Canada, it only got as high as 20 while "All About That Bass" took the number 2 spot.

How do the Canadian charts incorporate YouTube views?

it doesn't have to have a popular video necessarily, but being on youtube/vevo definitely helps, as they are the #1 streaming-music source in the us

crut, i wasn't holding lex responsible for your words, but without putting your our anybody else's words in his mouth, I'm gathering he thinks there's something redemptive/meaningful going on with this track... and i've heard the same from a few other cultural critics but not had it explained, sans video, in a way that i follow

this song is not interesting or fun or charming and if it's feminist, it's only in a negative sense of "flipping" tropes and doesn't model any kind of appealing view of gender dynamics. "fuck the skinny bitches in the club", seriously?

i realize a lot of rap is offensive, and i don't want to hold nicki to a higher standard than her male peers, but it's confusing when this sort of thing is held up as progressive. if the song was good, i'd probably still be into it as a piece of pop music, but it sounds like a mixtape track and the sample is the most boring, played to death early rap song of all time.

xp obviously it's true that the video contributes the vast majority of the song's hot 100 points for this week, which will almost undoubtedly be its chart peak, but it also started gaining very quickly on radio very quickly compared to other nicki songs (especially "pills n potions" which despite doing okay in the long run was not exactly rapturously received and had to climb playlists pretty damn slowly). same goes for its sales too. the general radio-listening public likes this song regardless of its video. if one is to accept that video streaming is the only or even largest determinant of this song's success based on the proportion of points during its chart peak, we'd have to also accept that "drunk in love" was only or mainly successful due to its video (it also peaked at #2 for one week, driven disproportionately by video streaming following the grammys compared to its strong-but-not-huge sales that week).

i'm of two minds when it comes to the influence of youtube streams on hot 100 placing. on one hand, video has always been a big influence on radio since the dawn of mtv (i.e. would "november rain" have gone Top 10 without the clip existing?), so why shouldn't we be representing that influence directly on the charts before its felt on radio? on the other hand, sometimes it's not even a video but a parody or some dickweed singing bon jovi at a celtics game that gets a song bumped up 78 notches.

also where mtv was ignored by billboard because of the monopolistic control over rotation, youtube is at least in the hands of the people. imo i'd just like to see more effort to acknowledge the difference between "kanye fucks kim kardashian on a motorcycle to his new song, gets on top 40" and "content lackey dances for her resignation letter to old kanye song, gets on top 40"

yeah it's been a mixed bag. a song made the top 10 one week recently then fell completely off the charts the next week, all because it was featured in the background of a viral fashion ad featuring 'strangers' (who were actually actors) kissing. billboard might have to reweigh chart components at some point -- which they do reasonably often, to their credit.

oh yeah the soko thing was hilarious

blurred lines was a case where the song shot to the top thanks to vevo but stayed there thanks to radio

drunk in love didn't really set pop radio on fire

wrote a v long post last night in response to lex but literally fell asleep while editing it (i was in bed, on benadryl) and when i woke up i didn't think much of the parts about nancy sinatra and the queen of the night so i've cut those and just left in the parts that agree w treeship's queasiness (tho not w his or forks' aesthetic assessment of the song):

don't rly mind the song, think rev has been m/l otm throughout re the merits of its various parts, also understand the concept of owning yr sexuality thx, just think being satisfied (over and over again) by the merest presence of "power" as if every single expression of female semi-agency attained thru its capital-approved acquisition were what we've all been waiting for is -- not crazy or inherently unfeminist but p much exactly where pepsicola wants you to be satisfied. (btw, girl still has trouble getting through a self-affirmation without going scorched-earth on some subset of other women, almost as if capitalist "liberation" is a zerosum game.) unconfused by people liking the song (tho much of that is testament imo to the deathlessness of baby got back) but think the thrilled attribution of subversive political significance to it is some unnecessary self-kidding. it goes down the machine's gullet exactly as easily as everything else does, it doesn't trouble or confuse or muddy the certainties of the fappers for even a second, and the terms on which it allows nicki power are exactly the same terms on which women have always been allowed power: make money for us, keep a lil for yrself, and go ahead and tease the boys some while they look at you. (just make sure they look, or you will be powerless again faster than you can say problematize.) i agree w molly lambert that making a voiced commodity of yr own black body is preferable to making a voiceless one of other people's (and it's not her fault or nicki's that this is the bar) but when she calls a guy getting a lapdance a sexual object that is the sound of tumblr getting carried away w the bliss of convincing itself everything it likes is radical.

embarassed by the length and po-faced marxist-boy explanatory detail of that but my last post itt was glib and cryptic.

^ great post

xp (fortunately) "drunk in love" was massive on both rhythmic & urban radio -- #1 for several weeks on both formats -- which, combined with getting to #13 on pop, brought the song to #6 in overall airplay. so it's not like radio was a non-factor; it was a significant factor along w/ sales and especially streaming. but sadly pop radio is basically done w/ bey nowadays. :(

Thank u difficult listening hour that was great

when she calls a guy getting a lapdance a sexual object that is the sound of tumblr getting carried away w the bliss of convincing itself everything it likes is radical.

^this great nation is teeming with doofus sweatpants boner sex objects if this is true

feel like the missing puzzle piece is the vmas, of which "anaconda" was probably a highlight (likely because there wasn't really that much to compete with). plus apparently they've been playing in reruns all week so more publicity there

i understand that it's mostly pushback against <certain ppl> leaping over rhetorical cliffs to find something politcally radical in her titillation-as-empowerment, but i get bothered by the amount of flak nicki takes for not living up to someone else's feminst ideals. lots of weeknd verses out there much more deserving of the criticism.

the difference being that even ppl who like The Weeknd are willing to admit that dude is a lyrical sewer

great, great post dlh

lol djp otm

Someone should buy nicki a Feminist Male Tears mug

hahaha

i get bothered by the amount of flak nicki takes for not living up to someone else's feminst ideals. lots of weeknd verses out there much more deserving of the criticism.

o i agree, that's why the above is not an argument for the song sucking or a reason not to listen to it or anything. just if we are gonna talk about it in terms of feminist ideals that is my (spectator's) assessment.

xp lol.

Post 1 of 2, because post 1 is a genuine question (while post 2 is a more controversial ~PINIONS 4 U~ post I should probably know better than to make)

I'm finding this thread v weird at the moment, and I'm probably missing something.

But, it's like... there's a whole massive ILX thread about Billboard and the marginalisation of African-American music. It's been noted, repeatedly, that PoC, especially Women of Colour, have been excluded and all but erased from the upper echelons of the charts. And yet Minaj seems to manage the impossible, and chart a single at Number Two - and yet there is a whole segment of ILM which *seems* deeply invested in somehow explaining that it either didn't happen, or didn't count? Why? What am I missing, or am I reading this completely wrong?

Post 2 of 2, which has been building for a couple of days of eyerolling at some of the opinions ITT, and which I will definitely regret posting, but here we go.

Granted, Minaj is not my area of expertise; I haven't bought one of her albums since the first one. I watched the video to see what people were losing their shit over, and found it both enjoyable and interesting. But when I see the goon crew and the ILM rap bros and your Professor Feminisms of ILX lining up to say that something is a) shit and b) Not Feminist, and yet I see the young women I know, especially the feminist-identified ones who are interested in intersectional issues all going "Holy shit, what a complex cultural document that manages to be a parody of A Thing, but also the Thing Itself, and somehow an empowering Anti-Thing, all wrapped up in an appealing, sugar-bullet format which manages to get right up inside the belly of the machine in a way that pure sloganeering really doesn't" I tend to think that a point is being missed, and not by "Tumblr".

DLH raises some interesting points, but completely misses others. First, that consumers are not necessarily passive, that they are able to read polysemic or even ambivalent messages and reframe them. I think that female audiences are way, way more aware of the "sexuality is the only power you will ever be allowed" trap than you will ever know, both on an intellectual level and an experiential one. Granted, Minaj is about living and thriving within those already existent strictures with resistance, rather than demolishing them. But you're going to fault a person living under those strictures for taking a pragmatic, realist position, rather than an idealistic one? What a lovely, lofty position to be able to take!

Second is about, again, the ways in which female artists are scrutinised and problematised, and when you're talking about women of colour, this isn't doubled, it's increased exponentially. That someone like Kanye or Drake (or LOL as mentioned above the Weeknd, who I've somehow escaped hearing) can have ~problematic elements~ which somehow only contribute to their complexity, both as an artist and the complexity of their art. But the idea that someone like Minaj can occupy a space of both "wank-object" and "subversive" at the same time, or that she can e.g. try to preach a message of female empowerment while expressing feelings of ambivalence or even anger towards other women (inside a society that actively *encourages* all people to hate women), that's a complexity too far. Minaj doesn't get to be "complex", she gets reduced to a cartoon character.

I mean, y'know, Male Feminist Tears and that whole wail of "Oh, but it's so ~retrogressive~ that this idea of 'you can enjoy your own beauty, being sexual, enjoying dancing, celebrating your own ass, despite or even while under the scrutiny of the male gaze' is still considered raaaadical!" just shows how distant Male Feminists are from the actual lived experience of young women. It sucks that we live in a society where "man writes song celebrating enjoying women's big butts" is a time-honoured tradition that grannies dance to at weddings, but "woman writes song celebrating enjoying her own big butt" is OMG SOOOOOOOO PROBLEMATIC!!!!! but that is the society we live in, and so long as we still do, the latter message will continue to be radical. That a woman being sexual is *always* seen as "titillation" and never an expression of her own desires. (All of Nicki's lapdances are the weirdest and most interesting commentaries on the structures of sexual power - the awkward Drake one is funny, but compare it to her solipsistic self lapdance in Monster. She does not seem unaware of the complexity of this imagery. But many of the people complaining "how can a lapdance be a subversive act?!?!?" kinda... do? No, you cannot pole-dance your way to equality. But deconstructing (is Minaj deconstructing or replicating? Therein lies the argument.) sex work as a site of power structures... that's a lot more interesting.)

The women I see responding to this video so positively are looking at the big ball of contradictions and complexities and strictures and tiny gestures of rebellion (the banana!) while still conforming to an outward appearance which will be swallowed enough to make one successful. Maybe this is not meant to confuse or trouble or muddy the certainties of *FAPPERS*. Who is the implied audience? Why is it always men? Because I sure see a whole lot of *women* watching it, going "Holy shit, the whole confused and complex ball of living in a female body under the male gaze, this video fucking *gets* it." Messages can be polysemic, they can have multiple intended audiences.

WRT intended audiences and Nicki Minaj, I am *always* reminded of the reaction to the cover of her first record - seeing dude after dude going "IDGI, why is her body all distorted like that?" But people raised as female in western society looked at that image and instantly grokked "Barbie Proportions" and every single complex association that that signifier brings. I think this video, and the level of satire involved, is another of those moments.

Forks I am going to go full-on patronising here but you do realise that a) at no point in this thread has Lex claimed that 'Anaconda' is particularly feminist, b) the quotes you are getting all bothered about relate to a totally different song at the start of the thread and c) flipping from "oh my god look at her butt" to "stop looking at my butt" does not have to take place within the same song?

It sucks that we live in a society where "man writes song celebrating enjoying women's big butts" is a time-honoured tradition that grannies dance to at weddings, but "woman writes song celebrating enjoying her own big butt" is OMG SOOOOOOOO PROBLEMATIC!!!!!

This is OTM but at the same time in addition to Nicki there are six (!) men with writing credits on this song (even if one of them is Sir Mix-A-Lot). The song is garden variety filthy but people are handwringing over the video really.

ha i heard a lot of dudes (well, two) say "why'd she make herself look like a barbie it's gross" which is point-missing on an even more severe level i think!

That someone like Kanye or Drake (or LOL as mentioned above the Weeknd, who I've somehow escaped hearing) can have ~problematic elements~ which somehow only contribute to their complexity, both as an artist and the complexity of their art. But the idea that someone like Minaj can occupy a space of both "wank-object" and "subversive" at the same time, or that she can e.g. try to preach a message of female empowerment while expressing feelings of ambivalence or even anger towards other women (inside a society that actively *encourages* all people to hate women), that's a complexity too far.

the out i habitually offer kanye, probably overcharitably, is that when he's dumb and gross and offensive he is so in ways that seem rly specifically attuned to the way ~america~ is dumb+gross+offensive. this is really only true some of the time, tho; at other times i don't have a lot to say for him. anyway maybe nicki is this too, or something similar! you suggest this here--while expressing feelings of ambivalence or even anger towards other women (inside a society that actively *encourages* all people to hate women)--and i take it srsly but idk if i agree that I'm Hotter/Richer/Better Than U is a "feeling of ambivalence or even anger" more than a sort of automatic boast (the stuff about this kind of automatic boast being a long and venerable pre-nicki tradition is all two grafs later, sry for org problems); i might be readier to if it were less of an undeepening pattern over a career (with exceptions of course--"i'm the best" is, ironically, a pretty generous song) and if it hadn't gradually-not-immediately come to seem to me kinda shallow and dispiriting. ah but society is kinda shallow and dispiriting! well, ok. i'm not much impressed by myself when i get entrenched in that position w/r/t kanye.

But the idea that someone like Minaj can occupy a space of both "wank-object" and "subversive" at the same time

well of course she can. i mean w the kind of subversion we're talking about, it might even be necessary for her to be the former in order to be the latter. i just don't rly think she's doing it, here. i think she's done it in "i endorse these strippers" and in "fall like dominoes" (now there is a flipped sample!) and even maybe haha in "marilyn monroe" which prob does not get a lot of respect. if it is tasteless or arrogant or impossible for me to make these distinctions b/c i am a boy then idk, don't listen to me. i know that some women disagree with me but of course some do not; some are even interested in intersectional issues. it's a messy ol world.

i rly don't mean to deny her complexity or the kind of confusion that makes for (is required for) good art -- only to register some objections to ideological praise of a particular song which i thought itself kinda cartooned her, or was panglossian about her. also i certainly wouldn't call sir mixalot unproblematic. and to the extent that nicki's hypercompetitive narcissism is just the hypercompetitive narcissism of hiphop, vigorously practiced by males for decades -- i'm pickier and pickier about that strain of the genre these days, for many of the same reasons i posted about. a personal weariness. (and of course it isn't hiphop really: it's the hypercompetitive narcissism of something much larger. hiphop structurally embodying this characteristic of late_capitalism is absolutely one of the things that has made it the most important artform of the period -- like all dominant artforms both expression and critique. but some songs are more one than the other. just don't think nicki is v sharp or dangerous here. i know some people think she is. i know she can be. sometimes.) am v conscious of the tyrannical academic demand for female artists to be twice-as-good to earn their unaskedfor stripes as Standard-Bearers For Feminism but i don't think i was objecting to any praise of nicki i wouldn't also have objected to had it been praise of kanye. or taylor swift. or--(uh i just tried to think of a white male popstar i give a shit about and couldn't so i'll stop groping for a token). now if you comb the 33529058320 kanye threads you will admittedly not find a lot of long posts from me about how problematic he is but haha that's cuz the irl conversations i'm dragooned into abt him are frankly all the intellectual stimulation i need on that front.

last quick thing

Maybe this is not meant to confuse or trouble or muddy the certainties of *FAPPERS*. Who is the implied audience? Why is it always men?

this was one sentence, in response to lex's explaining to me that "playing up to the male gaze and rejecting the male gaze are not mutually exclusive". now maybe rejecting the male gaze does not require that the gazers actually feel any rejection. ok i can get w that! i suppose an unnoticed rejection would be the most complete rejection. on the subject of unmale audiences tho one wonders how skinny bitches feel. "not monolithically" i guess is the answer.

DLH, I think there's a lot of common ground in what we're saying. So we're probably going to concentrate on the bits where we diverge rather than going "OTM, OTM, OTM" to all the (many) bits we are in agreement on. With that said...

1) the skinny bitches that Nicki disses in the song; I very much read that as part of the deal she was doing on Instagram, of posting dozens of thin, white, blonde girls from the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, with their butts hanging out in the exact same pose she was doing on the cover of Anaconda, posting the single word: "ACCEPTABLE" underneath them, and then "UNACCEPTABLE" under her identical pose. That it's possible to dis the cult of "the acceptability of only thin, white models" as "skinny bitches" and problematise the *phenomenon* rather than the individual. (Rather like, when I see Women of Colour criticising "White Feminists" I'm able to step away from going "HEY! I'm white, and a feminist, and *I'm* not like that!" and actually agree that people like *redacted* and the things they practice are terrible, and rather than get butthurt, try harder not to be like that.) Maybe I'm giving her too much credit. But I'm still acknowledging that her *anger* at a racist beauty standard is still legitimate, even if she *is* targeting the individuals rather than the phenomenon. (Because our society *does* encourage us to hate the woman rather than hate the beauty-game.)

2) Her "I'M THE BEST" schtick. I agree with a lot of your discomfort with this. But this is a problem with *America* and ~The American Dream~ and Capitalism and (I am not an expert on hip-hop culture, so I will take your word for the macho bravaggio and hyper-competitive narcissism and its Thing-ness.) But one could also reframe Minaj, as much as she is dissing inferior females in her songs, she is also offering the subject position of a Top Dog woman to female listeners to identify with and sing along with. Which is a *bold* move, whether or not it's a radical one.

3) Sir Mixalot and his unproblematic status. It's amazing how many feminist people give that song a free pass, but I also understand why they *do*. Not to get all ~death of the author~ but there's 2 reasons why that song's problems are overlooked to make it an anthem: it posits two things which women have seized upon. 1) Big is beautiful (seizing upon this for fat acceptance) and 2) Black is beautiful (seizing upon this as a celebration of African-American beauty and its different standards). Of course, duh, the whole thing becomes re-problematised in all kinds of ways when instead of celebrating diversity, it just becomes a whole new impossible and imposed Standard Of Beauty. The song may be simple and crude, but the possible interpretations are complex, which is why this song is so beloved and canonical, and not, say, 2 Live Crew or whatever.

But there is this huge double standard, whereby men are allowed to say "Wow, I love sex" and that's considered a perfectly natural expression. But for a woman to say "Wow, I love sex*" is OMG WHY ARE YOU MAKING A SPECTACLE OF YOURSELF FOR THE MALE GAZE AND THE IMPLIED MALE AUDIENCE. This never ends.

*and for "sex" you can also substitute beauty, sexual display, inhabiting or showing off one's own body, dancing and all the carnal pleasure that is derived *from* dancing, as opposed to carnal pleasure derived from watching a body dance. "Act as if the male gaze does not exist, and dance and sex and preen and peacock away because of the inherent PLEASURE of these activities" is a radical notion. Which does not require the male gaze to disappear to maintain its radical stance.

i quite liked robin james' interpretation of "fuck them skinny bitches" as referring to White Feminists who mock or disdain black pop stars' use of sexuality. branwell completely otm about how male artists' problematic aspects always get folded into their complexity and thus artistic worth - oh poor emo drake's failures and manipulative narratives are the point, oh let's completely ignore that kanye's barbs against white america have to take place on a battleground of women's bodies because ultimately that's not a struggle we care about.

i think everyone praising this song and video is aware that nicki exists within the capitalist pop machine (LIKE ALL YOUR (MALE) FAVES FFS) and tbqh i don't think it's a good look demanding that female pop stars have to be the Perfect Feminist in order to get a sliver of credit for the subversions and statements, minor or major or contradictory or whatever, that they sneak into the heart of the mainstream. and this particular strain of "you can't be a feminist if you're a sex object or - god forbid! - a sex worker" is SO DAMN TIRED.

Oh! I'd read some of RJ's commentary on Minaj on It's Her Factory before, but I was avoiding that one because, well, Vice, ugh.

But this is (predictably) brilliant:

http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/all-your-bass-are-belong-to-us

During this, the first week of the new semester, I spent Monday's class doing introductions around the room. When everyone had finished mentioning their majors -- why they chose journalism/ad-PR, etc -- I said, "It's only fair I introduce myself too" because we're spending 14 weeks together and so on. When I told them that I try to be a freelance pop critic on the side they were like, OK, cool -- one girl asked what were my favorite songs of the moment. "I'll tell you some of the most interesting songs of the moment." I mentioned "Old English" and Jenny Lewis' "She's Not Me," and "All About That Bass" and "Anaconda" and "Shake It Off."

The guys of course tittered, both at the thought that an instructor knows this stuff and that I mentioned chart stuff. The girl who asked the initial question said she loved "Anaconda" and her "boyfriend can't understand why." A stupid song about butts, he said. I asked her if this offended her. "No because he never likes what I like, but I have to like what he likes." Several students, men and women, chuckled in recognition. I said, "Well, it IS a stupid song about butts, but do you think she has a right to be stupid about her butt? I mean, there's plenty of stupid songs about vaginas and breasts and butts by guys." One guy said he didn't like it because she "steals" Sir Mix a Lot. Did you have a problem when your favorite male rappers sample? He sort of laughed and said, no, I guess not.

Anyway, I didn't want to spend the first day of a writing strategies course discussing the aesthetics of sampling when we could be talking about this other shit, so we spent a few minutes reviewing our responses to "Shake It Off" and "Anaconda." What's interesting is how the girl who liked "Anaconda" also thought Swift was "whiny" and that "she's all about her private life" in her songs. I didn't want to go down that road either, so I asked for a show of hands: how many liked Drake? About eight students in a class of 20 raised hands, including several girls. "Do you ever think Drake is whiny?" Three or four of the hand raisers said yes. "Why does he get a pass then? Why is he allowed to be whiny?" They couldn't explain. I ended the discussion. I said, to paraphrase, part of what I want to do in this class is question assumptions about your bodies, death, the familiar, hence the name Writing Strategies, etc.

So, yeah, it's great how real life intersected with this thread!

(when I asked the Drake question I did precede it with MAFUCKAH NEVER TOLD US, the only Shameless Crowd Pleasing Moment, but they laughed so)

(hey dyl i specifically said pop radio and was speaking half-anecdatally - it got zero play up here on both the top-40 stalwart and the upstart chr station that is leaning more heavily toward edm (read: white people, mostly), but i know boston and race have their own suite of issues)

i don't think i was saying that anaconda's success didn't "count," just that it was more of a hit because of the video than anywhere else. (the primacy of youtube/vevo is why the lyric video has seen such a boom over the past few years.) that it outstreamed 'wrecking ball' yet did not go to no. 1 is very telling imo.

should also note that i find this song aesthetically pleasing BUT I ALSO think that difficult listening hour's points on capitalism and point-scoring are bang on, particularly the "zero-sum game" idea. nicki has long thrived as the lone woman in the boys' club of ymcmb (never mind hip-hop), and as someone who has been in that situation (minus the worldwide fame obv) membership is reached by being better than not just the other women, but the other men, and scorching the earth in such a way that makes people think of you as ... let's call it "woman-plus."

The fact that a non number one sells or streams more than a different song that reached number one is only really "telling" in relation to the week's competition. And nicki had a new song by Taylor swift..

It's not that Nicki's hypersexual post modern barbie thing is necessarily bad, but its no coincidence that that's the one pertains that is still viable in hip hop, whereas women like Boss or MC Lyte or Da Brat can't exist in commercial hip hop

Like a modern example being Sweetz P who released an amazing mixtape this year but she's frankly too butch for the market now

Kind of amused to note that Anaconda was originally produced with Missy in mind and thinking about how differently people would be discussing it if that had actually happened.

Admittedly it's more likely they just wouldn't be discussing it at all.

anthony i'm not trying to start an argument, i'm just saying that 'anaconda' exists behind a sort of eight ball because it is automatically excluded from the kind of stations that (still, in 2014) boast about playing hits but not rap, many of which make up the radio pool from which the hot 100's data is compiled

i'm not trying to start an argument either. i'm just giving context to nicki not making number one against "shake it off's" big debut vs miley making number one against "roar"'s sixth week on the chart, since the relative placing was described as "very telling"

also my name is da croupier

mr da croupier if you're nasty

Alfred, your class sounds amazing. I'm really glad this stuff is getting taught/discussed. And I'm double glad that it's you doing it.

Maura, we've tangled on this stuff before (my husband's stupid record collection springs to mind) so I'm going to try to tread carefully to try to avoid conflict.

I get what you're saying about the whole Loophole Girl phenomenon; I've been there, too. Being the first/only girl in the room is often fraught. But there's a difference between "criticising the woman who conforms to gendered expectations in order to get/stay in that room" and "criticising the structures that put her in the room, and keep her the only girl in the room." The bad/annoying dialogue around Minaj leans too heavily on the former, IMO. This troubles me.

Nicki Minaj most analyzed not-very-good rapper in the game

"It's not that Nicki's hypersexual post modern barbie thing is necessarily bad, but its no coincidence that that's the one pertains that is still viable in hip hop, whereas women like Boss or MC Lyte or Da Brat can't exist in commercial hip hop

Like a modern example being Sweetz P who released an amazing mixtape this year but she's frankly too butch for the market now

― ra's al goole (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:02 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

this is on-point tho

someone brought up Missy and it's worth asking if Missy could blow up in today's market? I kinda wonder....

are iggy and nicki basically the only 2 commercially big female rappers now?

I think a new artist who looked like missy could definitely blow up today based off striking, novel, eccentric but undeniably pop songs and videos today. That's different than "if supa dupa fly dropped today would it blow up" because many of those qualities it had have been normalized

yeah it's interesting because Nicki and Iggy give you the impression of "female rappers have to be like THIS to be successful now" but Missy stepped into a field where Lil Kim and Foxy Brown had kind of presented a new standard of female rapper in the same way and she thrived anyway. i think the answer is just that Missy was a singular artist and there's always room for someone unique and galvanizing to stand out.

Honestly I think having "shake it off," "anaconda," "all about the bass," "fancy" etc at the top confirms missy-style hip-hop/pop is welcome even if people find the artists more regressive or less heroic

Some dude what about Lauryn, rah digga, early eve, Mia x etc?
Are you guys arguing that it's not narrower now?

no it's def narrower now. just saying, even then Missy seemed relatively unlikely as a major star.

"Does the 10s feel as rich as the 90s" and "could a new missy even happen" are two different things

I like lex's accidental honesty in this critique of anaconda upthread:

"lots of it really, really works."

really fascinating conversations going on here

(maura, i apologize for derailing the larger points you were making, which i agree with, with my quibbling over chart minutiae)

re: "But, it's like... there's a whole massive ILX thread about Billboard and the marginalisation of African-American music. It's been noted, repeatedly, that PoC, especially Women of Colour, have been excluded and all but erased from the upper echelons of the charts. And yet Minaj seems to manage the impossible, and chart a single at Number Two - and yet there is a whole segment of ILM which *seems* deeply invested in somehow explaining that it either didn't happen, or didn't count? Why? What am I missing, or am I reading this completely wrong?"

I don't think people are saying this (I could be wrong) so much as it seems as if most people think its chart position is going to be a happy accident but short-lived. I'd love to be proven wrong on this point (and IIRC the Billboard article did mention that radio may be coming around) but it's not really out-there as a prediction.

again, I really do think the VMAs have a non-trivial amount to do with "Anaconda" reaching #2 -- being placed at the beginning of a major awards show that is apparently playing in reruns enough for my mom to call me last night and complain that she's been in some kind of "Groundhog Day" loop of the announcer presenting 5 Seconds of Summer (yes, yes, anecdotal, but still) is not meaningless. (It's also the conditions under which "Wrecking Ball" debuted, for what it's worth.)

also non-trivial: nicki minaj has a very large, very active fanbase; it's not like we're talking about an upstart nobody here.

(that said, the "skinny bitches" thing referring to anything other than skinny girls in the club is a massive, massive stretch. it's fine on its own! she who has never, not once in her life, made a grumpy comment about skinny people gets to throw stones etc.)

i'm not rooting for women of color to do well on the charts by any means necessary. i would like it to be because good songs that they are making are given the right structural support to have that opportunity. Not that they're releasing thirstbucket singles

that reads weird, but what i'm trying to say is: complaining about too many white ppl on the charts doesn't mean i'm going to root for any old bullshit just because it's by a woman of color and happens to be succeeding

nb i like this song more than most people do, but also let's not pretend that the jlo/iggy azalea record on the way isn't just going to pop out and wipe the floor with it

ignore my first post it was very badly worded

When was the last time jlo wiped the floor with anyone

I mean yeah Iggy is almost vanilla ice hot right now but I wouldn't assume the lack of a guest spot from her is all that kept "I love you papi" from hitting #1 instead of whatever low berth it got

the multiple singles with hundreds of millions of views she's had in the last 5 years?

i dunno man i'm pretty confident this one is gonna be big: http://www.audiomack.com/song/jlo/booty-remix

idk, the last Lopez single to have any real impact was On the Floor, which was 3 years ago. Since then it's been a slew of singles that go nowhere, and videos that do decently over time but don't really "take off". And it's not as if some of those singles didn't have hit potential too. Her last album also opened to terrible numbers. She's been a persistent force in pop but hasn't been on top of the game in quite some time. Even On The Floor was a one-off.

Still not over how "I Luh Ya Papi" failed.

I think you guys are underestimating Iggy

You're right, I have a feeling it won't be no mediocre showing

Like even if its "black widow" big it ain't gonna shame nicki none

0:30 - 1:30 something of a slog, but otherwise yeah

I guess we'll see

I hadn't seen the video til now...I find the song a little less boring now :D

http://thumbs.hh.ulximg.com/public/article/600_1408546430_tumblr_nal8sgouqj1shabc6o1_500_83.gif

Don't get me wrong, no one could have seen Cher's "believe" - j lo clearly won't go down without a fight. Just saying for her to truly wipe the floor with anaconda would be a thing of many thinkpieces and grand comeback chat

http://thumbs.hh.ulximg.com/public/article/600_1408546420_tumblr_nalab0joaq1ru7khoo1_500_78.gif

Weird that Anaconda is the competitor JLo has to dethrone when Shake It Off is the actual current chart topper.

well, i think the dethroning discussion is limited to songs about thrones

Or that Melvins guys side project The Thrones
Saw them open for blonde red head what a snooze

http://jeffreycaluag.tumblr.com/post/96661774711/anaconda-nicki-minaj-choreography-by

:D :D :D :D :D

biiiiitchin

yessss <3 <3

more sexploitation, great 2014 theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO4xCfGO-XU sure hope it's liberating

*Sigh*

so very disappointed that the scourge of human sexuality has suddenly overtaken popular music this year

Note: that sigh isn't aimed at any of the discussion here, but at....that, above, and whatever this showdown has to say about where we're headed (or already are) as a society, etc.

Al, I know you're being sarcastic and that you're right, but this just feels so fucking empty. Maybe I'm just getting old, I dunno.

god j lo's voice is so fuckin bad

Jello's always been known for her butt, though. Not really jumping on the bandwagon, so much as reclaiming it.

woulda queued that up a lot faster without the phrase (featuring iggy azalea)

not sure if iggy or jlo know that putting your sexuality up front also involves making sure listeners know you have a brain, too. anxious.

granted we haven't seen the whole thing but i feel like this video is only playing to half the audience nicki's did

the half that wants to see honey poured on butts

now if there was some playful use of sexual iconography and pitbull pitching a tent, that'd be something

ha yeah, if anything this proves the subversive element of "Anaconda"

gobble-gobble bass

"I Luh Ya Papi" video already did the tongue-in-cheek gaze-flipping. Laughing at the folks despairing for society's future though. It's butts, you'll live.

word

ha yeah, if anything this proves the subversive element of "Anaconda"

― The Reverend, Monday, September 8, 2014 2:41 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you havent even seen the video yet tho lol

Dudes this album is gonna have the exact same flaws as her others, let's just hope Carter V is like 2 of the good out of the four tracks that're allegedly gonna be on it. Wayne's the biggest influence on rap that you seen thus far he deserves to go out on top

Having grown up with 90s mtv I'm not surprised music videos use sexual content to gain attention (still, hadn't seen the honey-booty thing before) but that doesn't make it an irrelevant issue, same goes for sexism in rap lyrics. Maybe the booty theme can be empowering/liberating but as has been noticed this J-Lo/Iggy song doesn't seem to be doing that. I don't think Nicki is either, but I respect that a lot of people disagree with me.

It shouldn't be necessary, but I'll add the disclaimer that I'm not trying to say that Lopez' self presentation is immoral or wrong, only that I don't think its intention (whatever it may be) can be isolated from the context in which it's interpreted, and I don't think it will help a feminist cause.

Sorry for not just letting this one go, I don't know why I can't get it out of my head.

have you read the articles that feminists have written about "anaconda" or nah?

Naaahhh, that would be too difficult. Women are just bodies for me to be looking at. They don't inhabit those bodies, or have personal feelings about them. That's too much for my little brain to get my head around. It's all for my gaze. And if it makes me uncomfortable, that makes it BAD.

also it shouldn't need to be pointed out but positing "are boys wanking to this" as some sort of litmus test for feminist credentials is extremely dumb on many levels

I read the Molly Lambert piece you posted upthread, and I found the points on appropriation/reappropriation valid, as well as the idea of "shifting racial standards of beauty". If there are other pieces you recommend I read, I will.

I don't agree with Lambert's analysis of Nicki as subject, because I think it comes off a bit one-sided. I know this is probably not Lambert's intention, but there seems to be a false dilemma between being a sexual subject or object in a quote like this: "And because Nicki is spitting rapid-fire jokes the whole time she is onscreen, it’s impossible to feel like she’s been reduced to a mere body." Surely it's possible to both come across with valid points on female sexuality or racial standards of beauty, while also coming of as a sexual object. Feminist tropes don't automatically exclude sexists tropes (and I don't mean that sexual objectification is necessarily sexist, just that it historically has often been).

I'd like to again stress that I'm not trying to second guess or morally judge Nicki, Lopez or any other female artists, just trying to understand their songs/videos in a context where a male gaze is predominant. As stated elsewhere I can understand the rationale behind sex-positive feminism, but I feel there might be downsides to it when used to "justify" videos like the above, when it's too disconnected from the common discourse - but of course I can also appreciate the attempt to affect this discourse.

back up for a second: how the fuck is jennifer lopez's butt a "2014 theme"

it was the theme of my birthday party this year

Jennifer Lopez' butt is not a 2014 theme, this feels like a forced misunderstanding, my comment was supposed to read like an ironic sigh, but should "Booty" become a hit (not totally unlikely) it would be the third hit in 2014 about butts (if we count "Anaconda" and "All About That Bass" as hits)

it was also the theme of this year's senior prom at a nearby high school

just posting here because i am contractually required to with my current dn

yes and come to think of all the thinkpieces on twerking in 2013 I guess it's just an eternal theme

i wrote a timeline of ass-themed hits a couple years ago: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/03/sir_mix_a_lot_baby_got_back_20th_anniversary.php

impressive! thanks for sharing

Honestly the whole in-your-face sexuality element of modern feminism is problematic/doesn't make 100% sense to me given the other stuff they complain about (I mean it makes sense mind, but more on an abstract level imo) and that's part of why I can't view all these popstars latching on to that part seriously, #1 it's a little too convenient and #2 you're not original, Xtina-era Aguilera already made all your same not-very-good arguments

maybe "Anaconda" video or otherwise is a little diff. but don't honestly care

those feminists with their complaining

yeah that was what I mean

smh at some of the reflexive response types here

Here's a shovel. Keep digging

i feel like the critical butt theory that has flourished in the '10s prob has more to do with race than gender

Having grown up with 90s mtv I'm not surprised music videos use sexual content to gain attention (still, hadn't seen the honey-booty thing before) but that doesn't make it an irrelevant issue, same goes for sexism in rap lyrics. Maybe the booty theme can be empowering/liberating but as has been noticed this J-Lo/Iggy song doesn't seem to be doing that. I don't think Nicki is either, but I respect that a lot of people disagree with me.

It shouldn't be necessary, but I'll add the disclaimer that I'm not trying to say that Lopez' self presentation is immoral or wrong, only that I don't think its intention (whatever it may be) can be isolated from the context in which it's interpreted, and I don't think it will help a feminist cause.

Sorry for not just letting this one go, I don't know why I can't get it out of my head.

― niels, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 08:48 (Yesterday) Permalink

Thank you. (Seriously.)

I love it when men tell women how to ~do feminism~. That helps the "feminist cause" so, soooo much.

http://gawker.com/even-nicki-minaj-cant-teach-vogue-models-to-twerk-1632916123

http://cheetahgirl69420.tumblr.com/post/97851461018/dirudo-broderrickstrider-make-this-go
via the singles jukebox cabal

I would just like to note that J Lo's "Booty" debuts at #18 this week thanks to her requiem for a dream homage with iggy

"Anaconda" is at #4, though

and a week later, anaconda moves up to #3, "booty" down to #45

ah well, they tried

lololol

can't say i'm at all surprised that the next single (released tonight/tomorrow?) features three dudes who still manage to have a strong pull at mainstream urban radio, including perennial hookboy chris brown.

what is surprising is that neither of her previous two singles did very well at radio, even on her home format and despite promising starts. like, her features (on e.g. rae sremmurd, trey songz, august alsina, bey) can still help boost a song up urban radio playlists and yet her own songs struggle and thus have to rely on meme videos for exposure.

like, yeah, it's clear that women lately are generally struggling for mainstream urban play, and can rarely get a hit unless the songs have shamelessly zeitgeist-y production or features from men (or, more likely, both, sometimes even multiple men as in teyana taylor's current case). singles by women that deviate from that template are doomed to flop and have indeed been flopping left and right all year (hello jazmine sullivan [already migrating to urban ac, where solo women can actually get played], elle varner, tiara thomas, k michelle's new one most likely). but i thought bey and nicki were basically exceptions to that general pattern. maybe nicki isn't?

yeah "Anaconda" really kinda flopped at radio after all the hooplah -- never got into the top 20 of pop radio OR rap radio ("Pills N Potions" at least went top 10 on the latter, but the arrival of "Anaconda" kinda

"Fancy" was huge on urban radio, Q was mostly incidental to the success of "2 On," but yeah otherwise it's been a really male-dominated year. especially glaring given the record-breaking run of female artists on the Hot 100 lately.

oof didn't finish this thought before i moved on to the other one:

yeah "Anaconda" really kinda flopped at radio after all the hooplah -- never got into the top 20 of pop radio OR rap radio ("Pills N Potions" at least went top 10 on the latter, but the arrival of "Anaconda" kinda ensured its stay was short)

i wish chi-raq had been a bigger hit than it was

would have some excitement for the coming one if chris fucking brown wasn't on it - already imagining the thinkpieces about nicki's "contradictions" that will arise from her having him on a song after the refreshment/feminist reclamation of anaconda

"Chi-raq" went so viral with all the freestyles that i was surprised they didn't try to capitalize on that and push it to radio the way Drake did with "0 to 100"

Nicki and Chris have done a ton of songs together so i would hope the thinkpiece massive wouldn't decide just now to manufacture that angle but who am i kidding that's what pieceniks do

i mean seeing as how itll probably be on a gawker media property or like, salon, chances are they will not be checking past album credits/features too closely, need to work fast and get DEM CLICKZ

def wish she wouldn't invite him on tracks but i also don't think it invalidates anything about her, and i can just see the hot takes and me headdesking in the future

"Lookin ass" got a decent amount of play in Philly

like, yeah, it's clear that women lately are generally struggling for mainstream urban play, and can rarely get a hit unless the songs have shamelessly zeitgeist-y production or features from men (or, more likely, both, sometimes even multiple men as in teyana taylor's current case). singles by women that deviate from that template are doomed to flop and have indeed been flopping left and right all year (hello jazmine sullivan [already migrating to urban ac, where solo women can actually get played], elle varner, tiara thomas, k michelle's new one most likely). but i thought bey and nicki were basically exceptions to that general pattern. maybe nicki isn't?

― dyl, Monday, 27 October 2014 21:15 Bookmark

cant believe how naive i was to think that nicki just put out a series of wack songs ty dyl

she's going to come under more fire for working with dr. luke than chris brown

smh nicki has also put out wack tracks in the past that still got tons of radio play. also the paragraph you are quoting is not an attempt to explain why nicki's recent songs didn't do well w/ a ridiculous conspiracy against women, just that i was surprised that she is not immune to the hurdles faced by other women in her genre as i previously thought she was.

especially glaring given the record-breaking run of female artists on the Hot 100 lately.

i find this interesting too and billboard has made quite a big deal of it. my thoughts on it rn are a bit hand-wavy and shouldn't be taken too seriously, but i wonder if the relative scarcity of crossover into pop radio from other formats lately has allowed women comfortably within the pop format to thrive toward the top of the charts? pop and adult contemporary formats are typically the only ones where women can be found at equal or greater numbers relative to men, while other formats tend to be heavily male-dominated, so i think the natural consequence of a more insular pop format (less crossover from other formats) would be that pop women have a better shot on the charts. the other side to that situation is that the non-pop men who could previously count on having crossover hits (see lil wayne, who just announced the delay of his album one day before it was supposed to come out lol) have to rely even more on their home format for exposure, possibly to the detriment of women at those non-pop formats who now have less space for themselves on playlists. (necessary disclaimer, i don't know objectively whether crossover is rarer these days -- tho my sense is that it is -- so this is all hypothesis.)

omg now her album got pushed back too ;_;

http://hiphop-n-more.com/2014/10/nicki-minaj-only-feat-drake-lil-wayne-chris-brown/

sucks

lol the Drake verse is peak simp

trash

i still have faith the album will be great but this song instils zero confidence as the lead-in single

man in 2014 we're still calling out the contradictions between "hard" and "soft" drake oh wow

but anyway this song is not good

hahaha "blow me...Lance Stephenson" is an incredibly dumb and instantly dated grocery bag line

i do agree that we should be done with the hashtag-punchline style by now but i'm also never not in favor of lance-a-make-em-dance references

speaking of which did anyone hear lance's freestyle over "hot n---a"? not half bad imo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1fHG_YCQAI795E.png

r.i.p. album cover design

bad esp by donda's standards

what was the pitch for this? "the cover is gonna be a clump of make up sitting in a make up smear"

i mean

it's better than her other album covers so far lol

her album cover game is britney levels of tragic

hdu insult queen britney like that, nicki

...is merely heir pretender to the tragic cover throne

lol art school

i like this cover but then i also really like the britney s/t cover

you guys don't get it it's her fingerprint

i like all of nicki's album covers! the first two are very ugly to look at but that's sort of the point. distorto barbie doll for pink friday, everything thrown manically at the wall and making a mess for roman reloaded. for a zero-effort itunes-age cover, this one's better than usual - feels quite unusual for a major female artist not to have her face on the cover (er, albeit this is following in yoncé's footsteps). plus i assume the shape of the make-up, esp if a small icon viewed briefly, is intentional

britney's run of terrible covers is probably untouchable

distorto barbie doll for pink friday, everything thrown manically at the wall and making a mess for roman reloaded.

this theory is doing a lot of work for someone who might just have really poor taste in album covers

the distorted barbie doll figure was really cool but the actual album cover itself was bad because... she has bad taste in design and fonts? same w/ roman

who needs album covers – we have mp3s

nothing uglier in the world than a phone playing an mp3 without the cover art

well nicki's aesthetic has been pretty consistent from the punchlines to the outfits to the album covers...they're all self consciously garish, and work on some occasions better than others, but singling out one of those elements for being especially glaring seems a little odd.

otm

i think simultaneously signifying artifice+femalesex+identity in a single glyph and having that much whitespace leftover is p decent design, but maybe she should have gone with herself as a kid

yeah i like the fingerprint thing personally, don't understand what beef people have with it really

i haven't seen people go nuts to anaconda, i feel like it's more a filler track in the build up to a song where the beat actually drops, good for building tension but not a release of its own

― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:13 PM Bookmark

pro tip: "Push It"