Is anyone else excited for this release? how do you guys rate keef atm? I'm not certain if the wikipedia page is correct but all of the tracks which are supposedly confirmed sound great to me! Young Chop is producing once again and it sounds like he is in fine form. looking forward to juicy j and chief keef collab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJqbcJUmQs4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyHZNBz6FE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ossSWj17Jnk
― hector_doepos, Sunday, 11 November 2012 03:20 (eleven years ago) link
Not to harsh your buzz, but this guy's affect is so flat it's a wonder he's still alive.
― Raymond Cummings, Sunday, 11 November 2012 05:09 (eleven years ago) link
haha.. i find that to be part of his appeal... i found this article really good , gives an insight into the kind of world which keef lives in.. (http://www.thefader.com/2012/08/21/chief-keef-lost-boys/)"The people around him may be trying their best, but it’s clear someone stopped raising him long before he needed to be finished being raised."
keef is one of chicagos zombie youth - to me his lack of emotional engagement is what makes his music unsettling.
― hector_doepos, Sunday, 11 November 2012 05:52 (eleven years ago) link
Gonna get boring fast if he turns into rapping a kit shopping.
― cruel silver of hope (Eazy), Sunday, 11 November 2012 06:33 (eleven years ago) link
about shopping
― cruel silver of hope (Eazy), Sunday, 11 November 2012 06:34 (eleven years ago) link
i guess the value of that is in the eye of the beholder BUT you can't on the one hand defend keef against heavy criticism because he just raps about his life/environment and then turn around and say that he should still be rapping about that stuff even tho he got himself out
― lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 11 November 2012 06:36 (eleven years ago) link
yeh.. word.. i'm curious, what do you personally think of keefs form/potential in the lead up to his big release?
― hector_doepos, Sunday, 11 November 2012 06:48 (eleven years ago) link
and i suppose in that case you could still criticise him on the basis of the kind of environment he is choosing to surround himself with , and the kind of insight and relationship he has with that environment
― hector_doepos, Sunday, 11 November 2012 06:54 (eleven years ago) link
hang on.. its not so much the environment hes in.. but the way he relates to and his music explores the environment
― hector_doepos, Sunday, 11 November 2012 06:56 (eleven years ago) link
if that makes any sense
'explores' is definitely too heavy of a word for keef
― hector_doepos, Sunday, 11 November 2012 07:02 (eleven years ago) link
I just want a great album. We'll take it from there.
― weak willie (longneck), Sunday, 11 November 2012 08:35 (eleven years ago) link
― Raymond Cummings, Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:09 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah getting soulja boy flashbacks over here, "love sosa" is much like "turn my swag on" where i'm like hmmm this might do something for me if an engineer had said 'ok one more take -- with feeling!'
― a man d'Balmer (some dude), Sunday, 11 November 2012 12:38 (eleven years ago) link
Turn My Swag On is so far ahead of anything Keef has done - I don't find Soulja Boy a flat performer at all, he has a crucial energy that Keef lacks
― lex pretend, Sunday, 11 November 2012 12:45 (eleven years ago) link
I find the idea that 'I Don't Like' lacks energy a strange one.
― pandemic, Sunday, 11 November 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
I find the idea that Chief Keef should rap with more energy and feeling a strange one.
― weak willie (longneck), Sunday, 11 November 2012 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
well i was talking specifically about "Love Sosa" not his whole oeuvre
― a man d'Balmer (some dude), Sunday, 11 November 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
"turn my swag on" is probably better than anything keef has ever done, yeah
― flopson, Sunday, 11 November 2012 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
but really... who's keeping score amirite?
― flopson, Sunday, 11 November 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
every interview w/him is all 'lol teenagers'
― lag∞n, Sunday, 11 November 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
I mean, to be fair, there's been at least one early single of his that was ok
― Raymond Cummings, Monday, 12 November 2012 02:16 (eleven years ago) link
so yeah, this album is really good. Now I understand why Interscope stood by him.
― Evan R, Friday, 14 December 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
he's gonna be around for a bit
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, that seems certain now. And I have mixed feelings about that, but damn, if he can make an album like this at age 17, maybe he deserves to.
I get the Flockaveli comparisons to an extent, but for me the big difference is Flocka is very charismatic in his way, and he brings a fun energy. Keef is just vile dude with a bitter presence. Kind of amazing he parlayed that into such an effective album.
― Evan R, Friday, 14 December 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
he's a much better artist than anyone ever gave him credit for. very clearly not just riding on the tails of "i don't like" but slowly pushing his sound outward
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
i don't find keef that "vile" or "bitter" at all... like, he often sounds like he's taking glee in playing the "part" of a "rapper" on his songs, a kid who grew up listening to 50 cent inhabiting that role... like there's a lot of "fun energy" that you claim waka has, evan, in keef's music for me. he sounds fucking stoked to be rapping... am i the only one who feels this way?
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Friday, 14 December 2012 18:47 (eleven years ago) link
or maybe not stoked to be rapping as much as making rap songs, if that makes any sense at all...
I understand what you're saying. Keef is obviously engaged, and enjoying what he does—the record would be miserable if he didn't. But I don't sense the same "I'm loving every fucking minute of this" release from him that I do from Flocka. He takes a much more austere posture.
― Evan R, Friday, 14 December 2012 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, December 14, 2012 1:23 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
bottling this gem and releasing it back into the wild in december 2013 to see how it smells then
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, 14 December 2012 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
Lol
― Raymond Cummings, Friday, 14 December 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
ha; Al's word choices are always so vivid. Love it.
― Evan R, Friday, 14 December 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
i usually don't mix that many metaphors tbh but i had just woken up from a nap
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, 14 December 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
it's ok, they all land
― Evan R, Friday, 14 December 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, December 14, 2012 2:21 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
i assume you'll be catching on right around then
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
where is this sudden meme about waka being joyous and charismatic coming from
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:02 (eleven years ago) link
like you guys are thinking of his PETA ads and not his actual musical output
his personality is that way & his music has trended that way at times since flockaveli but flockaveli is not that way at all
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
look at waka in the 'live by the gun' video & tell me hes not as or more detached & dead-eyed than keef has ever been
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
haha brutal zing j0rd
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:05 (eleven years ago) link
deej you know you cherrypicked one waka video out of 200 others where he's pulling grinning and pulling faces all over the place
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
lol pulling grinning sorry for typo
deej makes an important distinction tho
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
at least as far as flockaveli goes
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
keef may take the same track as he continues to isolate himself from the streets... i mean his grimmest tracks are certainly the earliest
citgo is so good. it's the song soulja boy should of made.
― tpp, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
'zan with that lean' era soulja boy that is
― tpp, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:10 (eleven years ago) link
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, December 14, 2012 4:06 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
which? the one that springs to mind is the one with keef, who is also grinning.
to me what is interesting about keef's style is that it is at once 'deadened' as ppl have described its ... detached-ness, but projected. Like, his voice jumps forward. I feel like for most rappers when you try to put that kind of energy in it, you lose that detached 'cool' cf pusha t in 2012
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
all of them besides 'live by the gun' iirc? like waka was hilarious in the 'bingo' video and that was one of his first big looks.
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
well it's not like the "i don't like" or "3hunna" videos depict a sad or detached keef. it's a different conversation.
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i'm not sure why videos were brought up to begin with just thought d-40's trying to hard w/ the waka video example
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
ew gross i called deej 'd-40' what is happening to me
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
what do they call you in the bay, '40 daughter'?
ok, well talk about his delivery on any track on waka's album.
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
― Poli oppa lice style (some dude), Friday, December 14, 2012 4:17 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol
i missed deej saying "video" cuz "live by the gun" is a pretty good counterexample to the narrative deej is trying to counter
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
dude seems more interested in melody than waka
― tpp, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:21 (eleven years ago) link
ok look guys, forget the video -- i felt like live by the gun was a good example, visually, of waka's style more generally. his stuff that people really like almost never sounds 'joyous' or w/e, it's cement-brick-hard shit. right?
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
'no hands' is joyous tho but it's kind of an outlier if his biggest (?) song
― tpp, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:27 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno out of his 5-10 biggest singles that only describes "hard in the paint" doesn't it? unless you're talking about his "core" fanbase's favorites vs. what most people actually know him for. xp
― some dude, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
"waka will you be my baby daddy?" NO! **throws cinder block into wall**
― some dude, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
i see 'hate being sober' being a radio smash tho and it's gonna be off keef's own back whereas you could prob argue 'no hands' was so popular cos of the sing-song hook.
― tpp, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:30 (eleven years ago) link
i would agree waka has more charisma however
― tpp, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:32 (eleven years ago) link
(i hope you have more bottles)
― tpp, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:33 (eleven years ago) link
this is getting into hip hop dungeons & dragons territory but i think keef is the more charismatic artist by +2
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
i just think it's interesting that the Flockaveli thread even at the height of its excitement had a lot of fatalistic (and in retrospect realistic) talk about 'he made a great album but he'll never top this, it's all downhill from here' compared to the incredibly optimistic 7 day forecast itt
― some dude, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
the direction keef seems to be pushing with this album suggests 50 is a better reference point anyway and i find it interesting how this sounds worlds apart from other rap music heavily influenced by 50 (e.g. max b)
― tpp, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:39 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Friday, December 14, 2012 4:34 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i mean...was that not true about waka?
i think this album is worse than flockaveli but he has more room to grow / higher ceiling. i mean, anything can happen, i think predicting these things is stupid. but the potential is there imo
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
i said 'in retrospect realistic', read the post jeez
i guess i have no idea what the best case scenario for chief keef's artistic growth or commercial prospects, maybe a lack of imagination on my part but i can't see it
― some dude, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
idk what it is either but i didn't see good kid, maad city coming either
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, 14 December 2012 22:54 (eleven years ago) link
people were VERY primed for the kendrick album to do what it did, it was just the rare major label debut that actually fulfilled their expectations
― some dude, Friday, 14 December 2012 22:57 (eleven years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/ISzNR.gif
grim & unrelenting
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
what a vile dude with a grim presence and a pink backpack
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
dude you're the one constantly talking about how you believe 99% of all rappers are sociopaths and horrible human beings
― some dude, Friday, 14 December 2012 23:09 (eleven years ago) link
oh they are, but i thought we were evaluating how he was presented thru his music & image as an artist
― D-40, Friday, 14 December 2012 23:11 (eleven years ago) link
"he's a cold-blooded murderous thug, but how would they know? he has a pink backpack. those racists!"
― some dude, Friday, 14 December 2012 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
there is a lot of, like, optimism on finally rich, like his constant references to his daughter and his friends
i don't know, very little of this strikes me as dark, cynical music
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Friday, 14 December 2012 23:45 (eleven years ago) link
that's cool to hear -- prob won't check out the whole thing til it's legally available next week
― some dude, Friday, 14 December 2012 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
sort of off topic, but i've been thinking about how keef's aspergers has influenced his rapping style, if at all. it sounds at times like he's ecstatic to have found a way to communicate with people in a way that might be easier than person-on-person single conversation if that makes sense? maybe i'm just going off the deep end now
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Friday, 14 December 2012 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Friday, December 14, 2012 5:29 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lmao
― flopson, Saturday, 15 December 2012 00:39 (eleven years ago) link
concerning charisma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRcfiZmwQtgvs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTH8Fj9S3fA
...
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Saturday, 15 December 2012 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
rappers wearing pink: shorthand for 'has personality' since 2003
― some dude, Saturday, 15 December 2012 00:47 (eleven years ago) link
i think everyone would agree that waka at his most charismatic is some of the most charismatic rap ever. perhaps his most charismatic and happy stuff was released after flockavelli (all the pop stuff, also verses like "wild boy" comes to mind) but even before the album dropped his energy was one of the things that made him stand out. it's a weird comparison though because even at waka's most deadpan there's still those insane adlibs, the amount of energy or charisma on the lead vocals of "luv them gun sounds" and "i don't like" are comparable, but one of them also has a track of a dude screaming at the top of his lungs throughout
― flopson, Saturday, 15 December 2012 00:53 (eleven years ago) link
post-flockavelli was when the energy went ott but, i mean, this is Rev's first post to the waka thread
Waka isn't a good rapper per se, but no one has as much energy as him right now.
― The Reverend, Tuesday, September 7, 2010 5:03 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― flopson, Saturday, 15 December 2012 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
it's a pretty spirited album. "o let's do it" pretty turnt up as breakthrough singles go.
― some dude, Saturday, 15 December 2012 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Friday, December 14, 2012 7:47 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark
heheheheehhehehe
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 December 2012 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
hauh hauh hauh
― some dude, Saturday, 15 December 2012 01:13 (eleven years ago) link
i like this a lot but somehow id avoided & now am overwhelmed by the # of molly refs and it really makes me lol
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 15 December 2012 01:38 (eleven years ago) link
honestly, hadnt heard molly since going 2 phish shows in early 00s
also imp q: is there a diff btwn pink / blue dolphins
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 15 December 2012 01:39 (eleven years ago) link
pink dolphin is a clothing brand (of young l)... blue dolphin is ecstasy
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 December 2012 01:48 (eleven years ago) link
lol ok thought they were somehow diff types of molly idk who knows
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 15 December 2012 01:54 (eleven years ago) link
this is y rap genius is gonna be worth a bill
Kinda digging "Citgo," which doesn't feel as gloom choked as the early stuff
― Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 15 December 2012 02:57 (eleven years ago) link
longneck has confused 'media savvy' with 'has personality' so theres that
― D-40, Saturday, 15 December 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Friday, December 14, 2012 7:48 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― johnny crunch, Friday, December 14, 2012 7:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
theres a lot of stuff like this in keef's music where its hyper particular to his age, tastes & region that is ... not exactly 'clever' but more meaningful than ppl who are like 'lol why did he just rhyme dolphin with dolphin'
― D-40, Saturday, 15 December 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
more meaningful than ppl think when they say 'lol why did he just rhyme dolphin with dolphin'
not saying you were one of these ppl
― D-40, Saturday, 15 December 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Friday, December 14, 2012 5:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
what the ... he doens't have aspergers. & yes, this analysis is super off the deep end
― D-40, Saturday, 15 December 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
hmm that's what i read a bunch of places? obviously it could be (is?) false, but sort of made sense, seeing some of his interviews
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Saturday, 15 December 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
internet rumor that got way out of hand
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Saturday, 15 December 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
they locked his wikipedia page with it on there
― D-40, Saturday, 15 December 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
he is super socialized within his particularly segregated world
the interview with donald glover a few months back was so awkward
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Saturday, 15 December 2012 23:14 (eleven years ago) link
if you read the comments its a lot of people saying keef is stupid and some people saying that donald glover is 'fake'. they dont mean he's not gangster, they mean something else, imo, and its part of the reason that interview was so awkward
― D-40, Saturday, 15 December 2012 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
who knows, i think taking youtube comments at that kind of value is dangerous, either way i was cringing through that whole interview, and you could tell glover was trying to spark some conversation
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Saturday, 15 December 2012 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
im explaining how keef's fans regard glover. i think they mean that glover was being disingenuous / making fun of him
― D-40, Sunday, 16 December 2012 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
ahh well it certainly did feel like that with the fart-as-lyric bit, even though i think it was meant to be a joke...
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Sunday, 16 December 2012 01:55 (eleven years ago) link
realized i posted this in the wrong thread but i think this album is actually p great & im even comin around on 'ballin'
― D-40, Sunday, 16 December 2012 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
It's interesting to me that the label meddling seems to have come strictly in the form of guest appearances but they didn't try to mess with his sound at all.
― The Reverend, Sunday, 16 December 2012 23:57 (eleven years ago) link
i don't sense any meddling at all aside from 50 & wiz being shoehorned into "hate being sober" and maybe the rick ross verse but that happens all the time... the rest of the guests (jeezy, french) are pretty sensible
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Monday, 17 December 2012 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
'no tomorrow' was the big one but ive come around on that track in particular in a big way
― D-40, Monday, 17 December 2012 00:05 (eleven years ago) link
mike will's stuff is so subtle sometimes. that bassline ~!
― D-40, Monday, 17 December 2012 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i've come around to "no tomorrow" too
the keef interview bit at the beginning of "ballin'" is so awesome
the only tracks i dislike are "laughing to the bank" (actively skip it) and "got them bands" (too busy and repetitive makes for a headache)
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Monday, 17 December 2012 06:33 (eleven years ago) link
laughin to the bank is classic for sure
― D-40, Monday, 17 December 2012 06:52 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that's one of my favorite songs... i think it really works -- "got them bands" isn't very good
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Monday, 17 December 2012 06:53 (eleven years ago) link
I always get the feeling that the call/response part No Tomorrow is ever so slightly out of sync. Like when you're mixing together two records and you're just a tad off. Can't seem to pinpoint where it actually happens, but it makes me woozy in the same way. I like the song though. The beat is great.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Monday, 17 December 2012 09:46 (eleven years ago) link
*of
There are a few minutes that don't work as well as others or that overstay their welcome, but I don't think anything here ever breaks the mood. That's an impressive feat.
― Evan R, Monday, 17 December 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
Should this go here or that worst music writing thread?
Jim DeRogatis's take. UGH
― Regional Tug (irrational), Monday, 17 December 2012 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
oof
Of course, saying that carries the risk of being dismissed as clueless and chronically out of touch—a “rockist” (code for “racist”) who doesn’t understand hip-hop culture unless it’s of the positive (code for “boring,” “feel-good” and “phony”) variety that, as noted here before, previously characterized much of the rap music that brought the national spotlight to Chicago in the past, courtesy of artists such as Kanye, Common, Rhymefest, Lupe Fiasco and Kid Sister.
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 17 December 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
i cant believe i wasn't feeling 'no tomorrow' at first. its quickly becoming one of my favorite tracks
― D-40, Monday, 17 December 2012 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
also lmao @ calling gbe the 'bang brothers'
album is whatever
gonna predict 35k for first week
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 05:25 (eleven years ago) link
"no tomorrow" is great, but the whole thing is pretty hit and miss
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 05:31 (eleven years ago) link
i think it's funny that people complain that he's not on the beat on that song because that's my problem with EVERY song
like honestly i'm no lyrically lyrical rap snob but if you've got a simple straightforward style you better be in the fuckin pocket as a vocalist imo
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 05:35 (eleven years ago) link
i wonder if thats the appeal tho. Lil B raps like there's not even a song in headphones sometimes
― epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 05:36 (eleven years ago) link
rap game farrah abraham
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 05:48 (eleven years ago) link
i have a lot to say about this album but i don't want to spoil my review :-/
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 05:53 (eleven years ago) link
one thing that i think is interesting is that this album feels sort of like a landmark for me just from an influence perspective. like as basically the youngest dude in the game this album is essentially a stew of every major southern rapper of the last handful of years... wayne/gucci/soulja/waka/future etc. there's not even a trace of T.I. in here or anything... it's almost as if no other music exists besides post-ringtone rap. i think that's kind of great and i also think that keef emerges as some sort of singular pop monster machine but that's just imo.
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 06:01 (eleven years ago) link
i don't understand where "pop" keeps entering this equation, though. it doesn't seem like any of his singles are gonna go further than the modest peak of "i don't like."
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
well you can def tell this is a kid who grew up on 50 though does he count as pre-ringtone rap?
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
i don't really hear any 50, kinda wonder if that'd even occur to anyone if 50 didn't appear on the record and talk about keef in interviews
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 06:05 (eleven years ago) link
it doesn't seem like any of his singles are gonna go further than the modest peak of "i don't like."
― some dude, Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:03 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i love "love sosa" is well on the way to becoming more ubiquitous than "i don't like" if it hasn't already
"hate being sober" is another huge pop moment
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 06:05 (eleven years ago) link
see people keep saying that about "hate being sober" as if it's already happened but until it actually does numbers it's just a prediction
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 06:11 (eleven years ago) link
i'm talking purely in terms of form... "i don't like" was a pop hit (sorta) but it wasn't a pop song. idk if "hate being sober" or w/e is gonna hit but that aims to be a pop song (or pop-rap) imo & i think that's true for a lot of the stuff here
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 06:38 (eleven years ago) link
i think you can trace 50's flow out of keef on stuff like "hate being sober" or "love sosa" but it's filtered through years of rap. wayne is more of a direct influence but with him it's also, like, his stoned autotune experiments as filtered thru soulja boy youtubes
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 06:41 (eleven years ago) link
It's true that he's often offbeat, but it only really bothers me on No Tomorrow because the beat is so woozy and when you get woozy vocals on top of that the whole thing nearly topples. I kinda like the double wooziness though. It feels brave in a way.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 07:52 (eleven years ago) link
that's definitely one song where the beat kind of draws attention but also kinda works with it. bothers me much more on other tracks.
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 08:23 (eleven years ago) link
http://thequietus.com/articles/11011-chief-keef-finally-rich-review
― sisilafami, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
why do they feel the need to review this ?
― sisilafami, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
50 comparison to me is more overarching similarities & meta stuff than direct ->influence
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
he's definitely extremely rhythmically loose but i don't think 'off-beat' at all
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
such as? no parallels leap out at me aside from 'gangsta rapper who has definitely actually held a gun at some point in his life'. (xp)
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
i dont mean there's some great resonance to it or anything, but melodic rapper w/ great hooks bankrolled by interscope & whose career is based upon narrative/biography of authenticity etc
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
Quietus dude repping for the wiz verse on 'sober' was a lil' strange.
― pandemic, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:35 (eleven years ago) link
haha "is on interscope" how uncanny
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:37 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
jimmy iovine dropping serious $$$ on this sort of thing cant be a surprise right
not picking on spin cuz everyone's doing this but its weird to me how after years of no one noticing that rappers are talking about guns suddenly it bears mentioning in every keef post http://www.spin.com/articles/chief-keef-ftr-drama-go-video-nsfw
i hung w/ brainwasher last night & he said it seemed like they were rushing the release of the album b/c to him 'love sosa' was just starting to build, which feels right I think. this album coming out now is some kreayshawn-driven insecurity at some level. maybe a lil too worried that he wouldn't be able to follow up "i dont like" when they scheduled the release. keef isnt really doing promotion for it — he isnt doing any release parties and is already recording new material for his next album. meanwhile, i heard from a friend that 'love sosa' is being played constantly in atlanta right now
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
the other thing w/ the 50 cent parallel is — 'they like me i want em to love me like they love pac' would be keef's 'they like me i want em to love me like they love wayne'
idk i think there's some interesting parallels w/ keef & 50 although MUSICALLY i don't think there is much—jordan's theory about keef's recombination of influences seems otm to me
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
these days release dates don't seem to be as reliant on radio spins. although obv different kinds of artists/careers, kendrick and j. cole got their release dates and did good first week numbers and THEN the singles really rose up the charts. which used to be the standard, and is probably healthier in the long run.
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
i mean maybe CK will surprise me and move some units and get a serious radio-hit. all of his fame feels so media-driven on a national level, though, like he's definitely a big deal to certain kinds of rap fans but not really in the conversation at all for a lot of demographics.
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
talking about louie again?
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
haha
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
yeah you might be right about that. this effect at work
http://instagram.com/p/TbP4kMDx8g/
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
The rap on "Laughing to the bank" is like a 1/8 beat ahead of the beat and its so hard for me to listen to
― epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:16 (eleven years ago) link
yeah this must be how dan perry feels listening to singers w/ bad pitch
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
even the "hauh hauh hauh" loop is off in a way that never starts to sound deliberate or like a happy accident no matter how many times it repeats
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
exactly, like if you move 1/8 of a beat in time it would be really funky
― epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:29 (eleven years ago) link
Yep. He tends to finish too early and it's semi-annoying.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fRWxAV3Eik
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
would be funny if the engineer fucked it up accidentally.
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
v addicted and p much super endeared with this album i think, idg how anyone could call it nihilistic
jeezy cut is kind of a drag and breaks the spell long enough to take 3hunna down with it too tho
loving the lil birdcall adlibs on 'kay kay'
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
haha on one listen jeezy's entrance was my favourite moment on this
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
i've come round to "i don't like" to the extent that i'd, like, nod my head if it came along in a club but it's not that keef is nihilistic so much as completely unfun
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
it's kinda early-days-of-dubsteppy in that it's really made for moody boys to nod along to while skulking in the shadows and i gues sthey can have that if they want
idk this wasnt at all the album i was really expecting coming off of 'dont like' and various other received half-wisdoms, it's a calling card but not necessarily the most musically representative of the whole
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
and it is a fun album!
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
"i don't like" sounded a lot more exuberant in this context than it ever has
ha xp
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
yes, i also found that
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
like before it was catchy but here it seems bouncy
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
yes, bouncy! i really really love the sentiment of "i don't like" & completely identify; it doesn't strike me as portentous ~nihilism~ (they really mean it and that's scary) (yes i know there is horrible social context) so much as scornful but celebratory of the stuff unsaid that keef DOES like
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
i just wish i could hear it as anything other than "a fart niggaaaaa"
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
fuck anthony fantano that guy is a waste of breath
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
clarifiation: i don't care he doesn't like finally rich, he's just awful in general
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
fredo fantano
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
i cant claim to have invented that but it is hilarious
Yeah, that guy sucks.
― Regional Tug (irrational), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
Youtube criticism is in a bad place (well, possibly by definition)
― Regional Tug (irrational), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
:( me too, now
― Evan R, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
Listening to the scattered, formless A$AP Rocky commercial debut gives me a new respect for Finally Rich, though. A reminder that uncompromised rap debuts are a very, very rare thing
― Evan R, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
"savage" (best buy bonus) is awesome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVTKqCdUFWI
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:25 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
album is great
on track to sell 50-55k
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 22:52 (eleven years ago) link
obv some unnecessary editorializing in there but w/e :p
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
lol @ the implication that your opinion of the album and its sales figures are connected
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 22:56 (eleven years ago) link
that was not implied i was just trying to parallel w/ ship's post
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 22:57 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/18/raps_killer_new_rhymes/
curious what u guys think of this particularly lance williams' comments
― D-40, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 23:45 (eleven years ago) link
I'm positively surprised by the A$AP album, actually. I had given up on him. It's not a great album by any means but it's a lot better than it could have been.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Thursday, 20 December 2012 00:11 (eleven years ago) link
needledrop guy is the absolute worst but that freezeframe is hilarious
― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Thursday, 20 December 2012 00:20 (eleven years ago) link
his opinions are garbo but i kinda like fredo fantano the internet's busiest internet hitta
― D-40, Thursday, 20 December 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
FREDO FANTANO IN THE CUT THAT'S A SCARY SIGHT
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Thursday, 20 December 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
I totally do not mean to start beef & besides I barely listen to any new rap ever anyway but I thought I'd check this dude out and...deej? you rep for this guy's rapping? really? like I have argued with you abt shit but generally speaking I think of you as a guy with some pretty high standards for rapping and like
man I do not get what you would see in this dude's rapping. like at all, if you are into good rapping.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 20 December 2012 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
lol "garbo", i'm having that
― r|t|c, Thursday, 20 December 2012 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
straight greta son
xxp http://instagram.com/p/TbP4kMDx8g/
― D-40, Thursday, 20 December 2012 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
^^^another chief keef review i like. lol
i mean, really w/ this?
Four days after Sandy Hook, Interscope drops the debut album of Chief Keef, who police say may be linked to murder
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 20 December 2012 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah thats reaaaally lame.
― small-scale fux with (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 20 December 2012 03:03 (eleven years ago) link
here's a rhetorical question to ponder: how come there has been no articles this week talking about the relationship between sandy hook elementary school & the new album by the rapper T.I., who once tried to illegally purchase an artillery of machine guns? hmmmmm i wonder
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 20 December 2012 03:12 (eleven years ago) link
And also sold double what keef did
― D-40, Thursday, 20 December 2012 03:44 (eleven years ago) link
TOPICS: CHICAGO, CHIEF KEEF, RAP, DRILL RAP, HIP-HOP, GUNS, GANGS, GANG VIOLENCE, EDITOR'S PICKS, ENTERTAINMENT NEWS, NEWS
― epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 20 December 2012 04:22 (eleven years ago) link
no NEWTOWN or SANDY HOOK tho weirdly enough
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 20 December 2012 04:23 (eleven years ago) link
most of whom were subsequently hyped through photo spreads and features on a handful of online sites: the Fader, Fake Shore Drive, Stereogum and Pitchfork.
― epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 20 December 2012 04:24 (eleven years ago) link
THIS IS THE SAME FUCKING GUY THAT WROTE THE TAYLOR SWIFT STORY
oh god i knew the name sounded familiar but i could not remember why
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 20 December 2012 04:25 (eleven years ago) link
glad he's taken that leap from sexism to racism in just five weeks
― epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 20 December 2012 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
actually, to be fair to dude, his editor write that subhead and there's nothing in the story about it
― epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 20 December 2012 04:27 (eleven years ago) link
so i take the racism thing back
― epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 20 December 2012 04:28 (eleven years ago) link
T.I. also has a huge gun on his album cover.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Thursday, 20 December 2012 08:26 (eleven years ago) link
you killed that finally famous review, j0rd
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
link? please?
― pandemic, Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
ah, spin, got it.here
― pandemic, Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
straight to the "he's like waka" well eh
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
can't wait for deej to go line by line responding to it like the oatmeal guy
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
If I didn't know better I'd have taken ""Hate Bein' Sober," the upcoming mega-single" as a shout-out to some dude.
― pandemic, Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
"hate bein' sober" is meant to be on the level of "stuntin' like my daddy" and "in da club"? LOL
― lex pretend, Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
lol pandemic
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
the positive reviews of this are almost as much of an "i hear what i want to hear" rorschach test as the pans
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Thursday, 20 December 2012 17:20 (eleven years ago) link
yes i will admit "upcoming mega-single" is a bit wishful thinking
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Thursday, 20 December 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
― lex pretend, Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:19 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
get ya mind correct
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 20 December 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
feel like you and i have very different definitions of "pop rap" when you talk about this album
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Thursday, 20 December 2012 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
"you know, pop rap! MC Hammer, The Black Eyed Peas, Crime Mob"
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Thursday, 20 December 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
even "in da club" style pop rap!
― lex pretend, Thursday, 20 December 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Thursday, December 20, 2012 2:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
well i think that's a very narrow definition (i would call black eyed peas "pop") & finally rich is waayyy more pop than crime mob. i didn't call 'back from the dead' pop when i first reviewed it cuz it's not... this album is diff tho
― salute me or crut me (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 20 December 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
how is any song on this record more pop than "knuck if you buck" aside from featuring actual pop rappers like wiz khalifa and 50 cent
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Thursday, 20 December 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
i was only really lukewarm to 'lollipop' when it came out then over the next few years it got promoted to personal jam status and now it seems like a landmark record rilly. dope review j0rdz. this record is dripping in pop, why fight it. 'kay kay' is my fucking shit.
― tpp, Thursday, 20 December 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
yeah great review
― flopson, Thursday, 20 December 2012 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
when i saw this didn;t have a D4VID DR4K3 byline
http://www.complex.com/music/2012/12/the-10-worst-things-written-about-chief-keef-this-week
i was like
http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/sp/image/1342/40/1342409378152.gif
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 20 December 2012 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
peep the comments though:
Drake December 20th, 2012 at 04:14 PM
I agree with half this shit, but Chief Keef is bad. it's that simple. good for him becoming rich. no problem with that. but to keep claiming all of these critics are racist is your lousy back up. They aren't racist. Chief Keef is not innovative, and apparently not very intelligent. He networked and got a good promotions team. Saying he's great is like saying every modern hip hop collective (A$AP, OF, etc..) are good. Just because there is a team that knows how to manipulate its audience doesn't mean the artist is talented.
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 20 December 2012 22:40 (eleven years ago) link
good for him becoming rich. but what took him so long?
― k3vin k., Thursday, 20 December 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Thursday, 20 December 2012 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
the positive reviews of this are...an "i hear what i want to hear" rorschach test
in fairness this is so generally true of pop crit right now across all genres big & small that it's kind of interesting how this album seems to be coming under special scrutiny about it
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 21 December 2012 12:34 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, the more there's a cultural narrative around an album and the higher the "stakes" feel to people, the easier it is to focus on anything but what it actually sounds like
― 2 Celloz (some dude), Friday, 21 December 2012 12:44 (eleven years ago) link
which artists tend also to play to their advantage imo
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 21 December 2012 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
easier still to imagine a great self-deception in people liking something you refuse or are unable to engage with
― r|t|c, Friday, 21 December 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
"Love Sosa" entered the Hot 100 this week.
― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Friday, 21 December 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think people who love this record are lying to themselves, i just think they have a high tolerance for monotone offbeat rapping
― nobody's bitch speaks again (some dude), Friday, 21 December 2012 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
aero otm
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 December 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
i wouldn't say monotone, what stands out to me is that half the time keef is most of the way to singing, but it's always the same three note melody.
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Friday, 21 December 2012 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
add this guy to my kinda-long list of Guys Whose Music Is Interesting To Talk About But To Me Not Very Interesting To Hear, a list about which I have conflicting emotions
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 22 December 2012 00:50 (eleven years ago) link
fwiw re: sh1pl3y's complaints i actually think he has a pretty masterful sense of rhythm cf 1:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys4hIkqPteY&feature=youtu.be
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 11:39 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys4hIkqPteY
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 11:40 (eleven years ago) link
how you hear that as a masterful sense of rhythm is completely beyond me musically. it sounds like he did that a capella and then it was later cut in as near the beat as was possible. like I would be genuinely interested, if you're up for it, how that's masterful - there's a long and great tradition in say toasting of throwing in triplets, runs of 16th-notes/syllables, etc, over a straight 4/4, so the voice is essentially serving as both percussion and vocal and it sounds like maybe that's what he's trying to do? but he doesn't pull it off at all imo. like when he says "sad stories like soapbox/you ain't no gangster Tupac" - it's like he's just not listening very hard for how those would fall in with the beat. however props to him for the Xiu Xiu reference in the next line
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 31 December 2012 13:30 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that youtube as a rebuttal is hilarious
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 13:37 (eleven years ago) link
I was really looking forward to some crazed irregular-rhythm tuplets like you get in harp and piano music so actually getting "I'm a 32-note late on every entrance like a hesitant singer who isn't sure where the beat or the note is" was kind of a letdown
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Monday, 31 December 2012 14:26 (eleven years ago) link
i don't have a great handle on pitch or theory so when you talk about a lot of vocal stuff i take your word for it, but it genuinely surprises me when anybody with ears can't seem to get a handle on how rhythm works and whether a performance is on or off the beat
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
kind of get the impression that keef does that deliberately, or at least whether he's *able* to rap on beat or not, his general strategy for approaching it is deliberate and in keeping w/the rest of his persona
― lex pretend, Monday, 31 December 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
i think it's part of his persona to not both doing a 2nd take, but i don't know if he realizes or cares what his performance might gain if he took another pass with the beat turned up louder in his headphones
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
not caring is part of his persona too i guess
― lex pretend, Monday, 31 December 2012 15:14 (eleven years ago) link
persona doing some heavy lifting itt
― i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Monday, 31 December 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
well the rapping ain't gonna!
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
that this whole interpretive approach makes it out of undergrad classes at all is kind of a crying shame - it's not like use of persona isn't a working trope but people hold onto it like it's a great way of explaining why a given musician doesn't write/rap/sing/play well
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 31 December 2012 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
Hes not "off beat," or if he is its not what makes his verse notable there. its possible they mislaid his vocal track so its "early" (the engineer on the kanye version of "i dont like" dropped his vocal track in at the wrong time) but its SO early it seems more likely to me it was intentional
Or arguably big lean's people dropped it in at the wrong time, but that doesnt really say anything about keef's rhythmic control
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
It sounds like hes trying to place his words at unexpected parts of the beat, hes coming in "early" and ending each line early
Also its "sad stories like soap ops" as in operas
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
youtube commentors arguing the same thing:
bigwillonmygrind 23 hours agodamn keef was off beatReply · Ontibadboy 21 hours agonawq he wasn't he was goin with the dropReply · in reply to bigwillonmygrind
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
Tha Sheen 9 hours agoyea he not off beat the first time i heard it i thought he was but listen again keef crazyReply ·
STPLamzino 11 hours agohe's not off beat, he's just switching his flow.......Reply ·
naturezoo 19 hours agoKeef ain't off beat wtf are y'all talkin bout. Nigga just comin with a diff flo.Reply ·
then to be fair to Al there's ppl claiming d-riders are delusional and that he's 'off beat'
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
haha blaming the fuckin engineer is shameful. the thing about Keef's phrasing is that a lot of times he starts a line at the right time, but he rushes to the end so that the syllables fall in weird places and he finishes the phrase earlier than it seems like it should, which works out especially badly for him since he leans hard on end rhymes.
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
im not blaming the engineer, i think its intentional (think dont know). but i disagree, his entrances are all coming in on the same early count -- it sounds like his verse (or the waveform) is shifted to the left.
although i kind of like this too lol:
KENNY GK 2 days agoKeef killed this. the beat is just fucked up smhReply ·
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
pretty much every track he's ever made has this issue -- either all of them (including the ones on his major label albums) were engineered by the same incompetent/sabotaging guy or hmmmm nope that's the only explanation
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
ok well in that case we're apparently talking about two completely different things because what i'm hearing here is not present on any of his other tracks
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
dude even the "huah huah huah" drifts off-beat at the end of the loop every time
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
fwiw the engineer story on the i dont like remix is true so stop being a cock about this
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
it's not the orthodox craft one but it seems evident keef does have an innate musicality and not simply a delinquent anti-aesthetic
like j0rdan said it follows on from the pervading post-fruity youth swag
deej was misguided in trying to validate it thru classical metrics, ships' "what his performance might gain" was stuckist condescension falsely implying objective benchmarks
― r|t|c, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
i thought the "i don't like" thing was an issue of a verse being dropped in a weird place in the melody of the beat, but it still locks in with the rhythm fine? apples and oranges xp
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i will cop to condescension -- i often play armchair producer and think "get back in the booth, man, you coulda killed that verse if you actually tried"
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
i'm talking about where his vocals drop in on the beat, ship, like i said, we're talking about two different things
which classical metrics are u referring to rtc
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
well after you concluded we were talking about two different things, you said i was being a cock about disregarding thing 2 after you brought it up and continuing to focus on thing 1
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:52 (eleven years ago) link
look i mean i get it, keef is by received standards "off" and in another time might be laughed out of town, but idk i listen to the album and that shit works 4 me, by its own logic, just like kendrick's falling-down-the-stairs flow or whatever
i understand there's a fine line where you feel one has to be vigilant against brainwashing yourself and automatically giving the kids free passes but the other maybe greater danger on the other side of that coin is you end up kinda listening to yourself listening to music rather than just listening to music, i know that sounds like a risible formulation but idk
― r|t|c, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
oh shit i should have known deej would someday lure me into the worst dr. seuss story ever
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
LOL
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
i mean idk daisy age dudes were probably smh-ing to deliberately flat-ass tunnel banger choruses way back when, this is just the next episode
― r|t|c, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
ive decided im going to ride with this explanation bc its the funniest
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:49 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
"masterful sense of rhythm" can logically only refer to past masters
― r|t|c, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
im referring to the polyrhythmic jazz drummers of eras of yore.
what did u think of his guest verse on the youtube in question, intentional creation of a novel flow, mislaid audio track, or off-beat accident?
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
he actually has some intricate flows, it's not like he's kicking some blocky run dmc cadence, just the way he's not hitting the syllables suggests his reach exceeds his grasp. it's like listening to a kid who's still learning the chords to "stairway to heaven" attempt the solo. breath control is like the last thing rappers seem to master these days.
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
maybe the diff between what we're talking about is im talking about the general rhythmic structure of his verses & you're talking about his precision. i would agree he has a self-consciously 'sloppy' style and can see how that might be off putting but to me it works. when i say he has a 'masterful' rhythmic command i'm talking more about the underlying rhythmic ideas rather than how flawlessly he executes them
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
clarity!
― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Monday, 31 December 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
I totally thought a few of the Keef songs on the album sounded like an engineer goof! It reminds me of the story about how run dmcs 'king of rock' is all "off" because the vocals and the beats got seperated. Except on #chihuahuahua they didn't do the best job of reconnecting them.
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 31 December 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it just sounds so much like soulja boy and other swaggy mixtape rappers-type 'relaxed' vocal style that i assumed the final product is pretty much his performance without much technical interference
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:00 (36 minutes ago) Bookmark
part intentionally clipped, part "fuck it" swag, it's a fluid dialectic between the two rather than concrete percentages tho
but all this vague underlying rhythmic ideas of the polyrhythmic jazz drummers blah is some counterproductive fanution imo
― r|t|c, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
i thought it was obvious the jazz drummer thing was not to be taken too seriously, i don't think he's self-consciously making complex polyrhythmic decisions
i do think he's aware, tho, that he's doing something musically new / fresh-sounding, kicking a flow that he hasnt heard someone try before, & that involves coming in 'early' (but actually on time)
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
he's doing a sexy vampire voice on "love sosa," right
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
xp how many million joeks do u have to painstakingly explain before u maybe stop taking what is or isnt serious for granted dude
basically agree with the latter summation i guess
― r|t|c, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
youre apparently better at communicating ambiguity
just to be clear, you realize i'm talking about the place his vocals land on the beat (as in which part of the beat) rather than the slightly 'off' rhythmic nature of his voice that somedude is talking about, right -- hes putting his vocals down in unconventional places w/in the rhythm of the track
― D-40, Monday, December 31, 2012 4:00 PM (0 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
tempted to go with "the polyrhythmic jazz drummers of eras of yore" dn
― ILX is not a non-profit — we are just not profitable (forksclovetofu), Monday, 31 December 2012 22:38 (eleven years ago) link
this is actually a lot like previous examples of ppl not really getting where im coming from bc im doing a somewhat tongue n cheek statement to render a truth
in this case yes he is doing, fundamentally, what jazz soloists would try to do which is make a new style or put a new slant on how they were rapping rhythmically
jazz drummers (unless classically trained) (which many werent) werent thinking about it in terms of laid-out european written music tradition either, it was just an (actually fairly complex) rhythmic calculation done in their head that this shit would sound cool if they did it like this
similar to the process going on here, im making reference to a historical parallel for an underlying thing
the joke is i know ppl are pretty regularly assuming that im overintellectualizing or overhyping something that isnt there so referrin to polyrhythmic jazz drummers of yore was a partial troll, although these things always seem to backfire
― D-40, Monday, 31 December 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
your sense of humor explains a lot about your taste in rappers tbh
― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 22:54 (eleven years ago) link
It sounds like hes trying to place his words at unexpected parts of the beat
if you're going to make a claim like this it'd be helpful to say what he's doing in terms of actual timing. Is he rapping 3/4 over 4/4? 6/8? Just lagging? (It sure doesn't sound like he's lagging in the style that guys like Devin do, which is audibly still in the rhythm.) It just sounds like he has a poor sense of timing.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
(and in the case of those jazz drummers, even when they themselves couldn't state rhythmically what they were doing in formal terms, it was always quite clear to anybody with some formal training what was going on - you don't need a formal education to innovate. But what Keef's doing sounds like "having a poor sense of rhythm.")
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
i disagree. to me it sounds like he's (sloppily, as is his style, but still on time) locked into a pretty prescribed rhythm, and is landing on the exact same part of the beat in every line.
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
i can't explain what is going on rhythmically because i don't have that training to break it down either, but it sounds to me like he's treating the and of three like the one, or maybe the four like the one, or something like that
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
is landing on the exact same part of the beat in every line.
see this is not my experience at all, his timing is very erratic and inconsistent from line to line
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:18 (eleven years ago) link
idk i find it pretty striking & it seems to have its own intentional internal logic to me as opposed to how like lil b used to just completely disregard the beat
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:21 (eleven years ago) link
well yeah lil b often not writing or obeying meter at all. when he does, though, not sure there's a world of difference.
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:23 (eleven years ago) link
at the risk of completely overanalyzing something that i just brought up b/c im like 'this sounds cool yo', maybe a better way of saying it is that he falls into this descending pattern <em>dat-dat-dat dat-dat-dat</em> and sticks with it regardless of the beat, but he's keeping time in his head outside of the actual beat, or something, so it is some kind of hemiola type pattern idk
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:27 (eleven years ago) link
fucking html
for someone who a day or two back couldn't even perceive any deviations from the rhythm in his vocal performances you sure do have a detailed understanding thereof now
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:32 (eleven years ago) link
but he's keeping time in his head outside of the actual beat
fucking really, man?
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
zorba the chief played in greek wedding bands before the hip-hop thing took off, can rap in 9/4
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:36 (eleven years ago) link
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Monday, December 31, 2012 7:34 PM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is pretty much what drummers do all the time ... any time you play 3 against 4, or what have u
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:36 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not making an argument on some prog-rock shit, because i don't think there's any intent on his part to be 'complex,' i think he's just trying to rap w/ a flow other people haven't used yet
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:37 (eleven years ago) link
imo every music critic should really study jazz at some pt b/c a lot of this stuff is pretty central to understanding how jazz works rhythmically
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:38 (eleven years ago) link
this shit is embarrassing what the fuck deej
you tried to play it on established technical terms and ran aground miserably, you had a brief moment of clarity finding other words for "innate musicality", now youve doubled down on the bullshit
rtc otm ppl put ur pride aside it's not difficult
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:39 (eleven years ago) link
look up the rhythmic definition of 'hemiola'
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:40 (eleven years ago) link
no! i will not!
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:41 (eleven years ago) link
(p drunk rn apolz in advance)
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:42 (eleven years ago) link
~sigh~
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:42 (eleven years ago) link
ha i wasn't familiar with the term but now that i am it is something i have done often ****as a drummer who has played in jazz bands****
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:43 (eleven years ago) link
much like in jazz the music exists first & the explanation for what's happening comes later. rhythmically, on that track, he's attempting to do something w/ rhythm that is unusual, but is also not completely chaotic & random. i don't know exactly what he's doing, but it seems pretty easy to determine listening to it that there's a rhythmic logic to it, going across barlines or against the beat or what have you.
obviously, he's not conceiving of it this way, he's just trying to make something that sounds fresh. but i have to say i stridently disagree w/ the argument that it's just aimless rhythmlessness
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:45 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Monday, December 31, 2012 7:43 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, i played trumpet & studied jazz for about six years, but what do i know
you want me to answer that question
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:51 (eleven years ago) link
ok done w/ this one for the night happy new year yall
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:52 (eleven years ago) link
i have to come clean and admit i p much have a massive transparent chip on my shoulder appearing anytime anyone opens the music theory terminology kimono
not to say i'm wrong however obv
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:56 (eleven years ago) link
hemiola kimono is one of my fav filmmakers
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
keef is making a vernier scale between the beat on the track and beat in his head. that he is only on beat twice in the track is a testament to how precisely he can calibrate his internal beat. keef precision.
― toy_sleigher (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 02:05 (eleven years ago) link
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 02:05 (eleven years ago) link
deej the thing is -- everybody you're talking with has listened to jazz. we're all talking the same language, but you seem to want to assert that something's going on rhythmically that can't be talked about in simple rhythmic terms (4/4, 3/4, 6/8) - which aren't big-theory-talking-above-anybody, they're absolute if-you-don't-know-this-why-don't-you-it's-easy stuff. if that were true, that'd make chief keef a profoundly forward-thinking musical thinker along the lines of ornette coleman. were that the case, I'd expect absolutely next-level tracks, not "sounds like they refused to let him hear that actual rhythm track" stuff.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 02:56 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, December 31, 2012 8:56 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i'm not saying it CANT be talked about in rhythmic terms (i'm not talking about time signatures, though) i'm saying that i'm not enough of a pro to always hear what someone is doing rhythmically and explain what the actual music would look like written out or what specific trick he's using (i.e. it might not be a hemiola at all)
a time signature is not a rhythmic pattern, though, not sure why you're bringing that up. and i'm not saying he's ornette coleman, but i am saying he's doing something w/ a level of inventiveness that makes it stand out from most rappers (i.e. the other guy on the track) (although 'sounds like they refused to let him hear the actual rhythm track' actually sounds quite a bit like what they used to throw at ornette coleman, so it's kind of ironic that you would use that as a defense, coleman was one of the most divisive jazz artists ever!)
― D-40, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i was joking about the 9/4 thing, time signatures definitely aren't really the topic here.
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 03:15 (eleven years ago) link
well, I mean, for every ornette coleman there's 100 college free jazz players insisting they're playing "sheets of sound" when they don't really know their way around a scale like ornette. there are plenty of rappers who do all sorts of inventive ways of throwing interesting patterns (which I'd argue are time-based eventually if we got down to formal analysis, but if we got to that level I'd have to tap out, too); the section you cited just sounds like he's not sure where the 1 is.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 03:16 (eleven years ago) link
lonely sosa
― toy_sleigher (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 03:17 (eleven years ago) link
I keep that shit 3/4
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
"w/ a level of inventiveness that makes it stand out from most rappers" is such a delib polemical statement, man why? you know the stand out part is contingent on contextual listeners and will raise hackles
the audience to which keef appeals by way of what he does is completely diff to the one you're trying to reason to
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 03:24 (eleven years ago) link
derrick rose does seem really nice so keef otm there I think we can all agree
― toy_sleigher (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 03:27 (eleven years ago) link
can't play free jazz on house arrest.
― based grandpa (noz), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 04:34 (eleven years ago) link
these bitches love Homeland
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 04:35 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2S9EUE0gA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 04:56 (eleven years ago) link
I haven't read all the way down the thread yet but someone already covered how this is wrong, right
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
lol guess not
It's not really important anyway, I'm just going to sit over here and crack up at the hemiola post
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
i understand the impulse to push back against the narrative of CK as murderous high school dropout with asperger's who won the music industry lottery but the counter narrative of CK as incredibly savvy and deliberate innovator with innate musical ability and sky high commercial and artistic potential is just feeling a wee bit wishful
― some dude, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
lol aspergers I will say that his little contemptous grunt at Glover's "I ain't got one tat, my brother's got one" is very underrated though. One of the key grunts of 2012.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
one of my fondest memories of New Years Eve 2012 will now forever be "sneaking furtive glances at my phone in the middle of a party to monitor the thread where deej finally goes off the rails"
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
Ha, I did that too.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 21:59 (eleven years ago) link
deej has been known to go off some rails
― i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 22:33 (eleven years ago) link
granted i opened this thread in bed when i got home but y'all need a fucking life
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
on that note, i'll continue to plot an elaborate mutiny against another message board thread title
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
def glad to be clusterfucking into 2012 with all of you
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 07:15 (eleven years ago) link
oy, 2013 ... where does the time go?
― some dude, Tuesday, January 1, 2013 2:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah not to put words in my mouth or anything
i think ive been pretty careful to say 'he just thinks hes doing something fresh' not SKY HIGH COMMERCIAL AND ARTISTIC POTENTIAL
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 07:16 (eleven years ago) link
saying he's a deliberate innovator really doesn't strike me as a stretch at all -- denying him that is p much what everyone has been doing, like this is some sort of accidental thing instead of intentional & i pretty strongly disagree w/ that
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 07:17 (eleven years ago) link
this is pretty much what drummers do all the time ... any time you play 3 against 4, or what have uI haven't read all the way down the thread yet but someone already covered how this is wrong, right
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Tuesday, January 1, 2013 1:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it was three over two not four, but yes, jazz drummers do polyrhythms all the time (incl 3 over 2) aka playing w/ two time sigs at once that dont divide evenly
but whatever guys you obviously want to believe hes just an idiot who's haphazardly rapping w/ no rhythmic command be my guest
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 07:21 (eleven years ago) link
keep in mind we've had these kinds of debates before, for gucci most memorably (no i am not saying keef is at gucci in '08 level) & ppl would go on & on (most of the same ppl in these threads) about how he wasnt doing anything & then came around on it eventually, i'm not saying it means u have to agree now but it would at least show a lil bit of respect to acknowledge that maybe i might have a point here?? idk though if you guys just hear chaos in that guest verse than i'm not sure what to tell you b/c it sounds to me like he's p intentionally doing some extremely novel stuff w/ rhythm in that verse that is also not random / chaotic / accidental
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 07:50 (eleven years ago) link
Accidental vs. intentional is sort of the wrong question though? Happy accidents are a force of history and intentions do not matter in the end. I'm interested in seeing how far he can take things.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 08:03 (eleven years ago) link
not everyone came around to gucci btw
― ILX is not a non-profit — we are just not profitable (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 08:07 (eleven years ago) link
those who didnt arent those im trying to convince in this case, fwiw
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 08:23 (eleven years ago) link
not sure how that pertains to the argument but i have no horse in this race
― ILX is not a non-profit — we are just not profitable (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 08:46 (eleven years ago) link
maybe i might have a point here
"intentional" is a silly thing nobody cares about; it doesn't matter whether an artist knows what he's doing or not. (at all. ever. it is never pertinent to a discussion of whether the artist's work is good.) the "novel" stuff with rhythm, like unless you can actually describe it, how can you even in good faith claim to have a point? he is comically off beat. you want to like it, so you make ridiculous claims about how he's on some higher level of rhythm. I'm not a great musician, but there're good musicians me posting to this thread who also hear the verse you cited -- as a good one -- as "lol, what the fuck." maybe listen to them about how hilarious Keef's flow is here.
it's fine to like Jandek - I have a metric ton of Jandek records! - but insisting "no no, I have a deeper understanding of Jandek's craft, no way it's actually Jandek" is lol for days
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 12:32 (eleven years ago) link
i never said i have a 'higher understanding' christ
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
this is actually a really really simple idea & we say stuff like this all the time -- not being able to describe in musical terms the functional cause of a musical effect doesnt mean that there isn't one.
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
Polyrhythms are made up of different subdivisions of the same macro beat based off of grouping together note values of the same microbeat; everything about them is directly related. Saying they are "different beats" and acting as if there is no relationship between them is like saying there is no relationship between two groups of three pennies and three groups of two pennies.
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
i'm waiting for the post where deej explains that keef was waving a gun at cops to create a tension and warhol-esque crime-as-pop meta-narrative as a sly juxtaposition to lyrics about partying
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:40 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
uhh if thats how you interpreted me saying 'different beats' then you misinterpreted. they are, in fact, different, which doesn't mean they're not related--obviously i think there is some relation as opposed to lil b who completely disregards the original beat
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:42 AM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
dog shut the fuck up
this trick where u guys bog things down in pedantic critiques in order to make it seem like i'm trying to argue he's doing some big complex mozart concerto style ambitious thing is stupid
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:03 (eleven years ago) link
where we tricked you into saying "a pretty masterful sense of rhythm" and "a self-consciously 'sloppy' style" and "he's keeping time in his head outside of the actual beat" and "hemiola"
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
Discussion is reminding me of the late 80s when hardcore bands who picked up instruments for the first time a week before they recorded an ep were described as Beefheartian in zines
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:17 (eleven years ago) link
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 10:10 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
eh i think all these things are pretty self evident in the music, it sounds like u guys are just hearing some amateur kid flailing around & i dont think that's really the case
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
that is exactly what I hear in the verse you cited as "masterful," which made me think "deej is Emperor's New Clothing this guy for whatever reason but it sure as shit doesn't have anything to do with the guy's ability to rap"
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
there's nothing wrong or inherently insulting about saying that a really young rapper who had an incredibly swift rise is not a very polished or technically accomplished vocalist with expert timing.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
you guys are giving deej a hard time for no reason -- i'm not bowled over by that verse or anything but i think deej is right in that keef is consciously trying to do something different w his flow
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:35 (eleven years ago) link
― D-40, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 2:17 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think the disconnect here is maybe not that people think he's an accidental innovator but that they don't think he's an innovator period? like other than the inevitable incremental differences that will happen to what lex luger & various rappers have been doing when you give it a couple years to mutate and move to different regions, i have no idea how the keef/young chop sound is 'innovative.'
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
that beat is really weirdly sparse, it almost drops completely at some points. i think it's a little hard to count, maybe keef did too.
― an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
yeah one of the interesting things about the rap world CK is part of is how the rappers are often kind of minimal and sloppy while the beats are getting more fussy and intricate -- the drums in the Big Lean song have all these triplet fills and 16th note hi-hats. it's a contrast that sometimes comes off cool, tends to really irritate me more often than not.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
calling him CK is kind of confusing
― attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
sorry -- to clarify, i was talking about Louie C.K.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
Finally Rich, a new fragrance by Calvin Klein
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
some dude brings a MadTV sketch with him to every thread
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
sorry, man, i was scrambling to cover the embarrassing gaffe of using a strange and confusing acronym
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
if you guys are bored of using deej as a punching bag, here's a finally rich review that compares chief keef to chuck berry
http://noisey.vice.com/blog/chief-keefs-finally-rich-will-be-more-influential-than-you-could-possibly-imagine
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
Rock legend Chuck Berry, for example, became the most influential guitarist in his genre by combining country guitar song structure with blues and jazz guitar inflection. Chief Keef, on a smaller scale of course, combines the subject matter and kayfabe of ‘00s street rap with the purposefully affected vocals and minimalistically impact-oriented structures of Youtube rappers like Lil B and Soulja Boy.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/b24f69cb3deccb7717cea663044ff560/tumblr_mfpivr1fex1rcny7ko1_250.gif
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
j0rd you're usually good at acknowledging when deej is being his own worst enemy in an argument, do you not see that happening here
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
"on a smaller scale of course"
― an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:16 (eleven years ago) link
sort of but he's only trying to flailing to pull himself out of a hole that 5 people are furiously digging for him xp
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
Bobby Flay and Chief Keef both combine things and buy grills I guess they are pretty similar
― toy_sleigher (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
all this dumb discussion did was make me consider that maybe the track for "citgo" was built around his vocals as opposed to the other way around which is kinda bumming me out
― Jacques_Lamure, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
j0rdan i'm curious if your position is "yes keef is a rhythmically sloppy rapper but i like that" or if it's closer to deej's
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:22 (eleven years ago) link
that being said i have always been interested in the idea of someone with some formal chops breaking down what we mean when we talk about 'flow.' it seems like here, even with a bunch of smart peeps who know what they're talking about, there are like 5 different conversations going on, vis a vis what it means to be 'on' or 'off' beat, etc.
― Jacques_Lamure, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:22 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think keef going off beat is a particular detriment to his songs (or at least it doesn't bother me) so i can see why deej is trying to say it's not the most relevant criticism (or at least not an argument-winning one). having to listen to the album several times made me pretty impressed with the command keef has over what he does (though i personally find that a total drag sonically, apart from "i don't like", which i've caved to)
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 11:22 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i thought we already established that we were talking about two completely different things
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:40 (eleven years ago) link
or are you still confusing his 'sloppy' style w/ the actual rhythmic pattern he's using
i refuse to read that noisey review
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
the "two different things" was about keef's rapping style vs. an engineer putting kanye's verse in the wrong place (???????). forget the word "sloppy," let's be nice and say "rhythmically unique," does that work?
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
no, the difference which i pretty neatly delineated upthread is the diff between his delivery being slightly 'off' the beat & the actual underlying rhythm that he's following which is fairly precise
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:44 (eleven years ago) link
rhythmically irresponsible
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:44 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:22 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark
honestly i rarely think a rapper is "off-beat"... my mind just doesn't register that stuff often if ever. like, when you used to say that webbie was the most off-beat rapper in the game or w/e i just couldn't hear it. obviously i'm more on deej's side of things as it pertains to keef... i think there's some virtuosity to what he does but mostly i just think he's throwing things out there and messing around a bit. i apply the portrait of him as a cocky and self-directed kid to his music in the sense that he tries a lot of things that most rappers wouldn't/wouldn't think of. i don't necessarily think all of it works but i will say that i think keef is at his least interesting when he's being the most "normal". i also think he's smarter than a large swath of people want to give him credit for but applies to lots of hated on trap rappers.
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
― D-40, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:44 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you'll also notice upthread that nobody else has really agreed that this distinction exists no matter how well you think you made your point.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
pretty much all of keef's flows have syllables grouped into clear 8th notes, 16th notes, etc. if you transcribed the lyrics and recited them, they'd fit over the beat very neatly. he just doesn't deliver them so they land on the beat neatly. i don't feel like that indicates the existence of an "underlying rhythm," whatever that means.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
that's a typical four four beat. keef's vocals might start on one, or the + of 4, but they might be at the beginning of one, or the end of one, which makes them feel slightly "off" (Gucci, most obviously, did this too).
By 'underlying rhythm' i just mean the actual space w/in the subdivision of the beat that the notes land -- if it lands at the beginning of '1' or the end of '1' its still implying '1'
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
like, do you understand the concept of swing, at all?
^^this is a sincere q btw
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
late period Andre 3k is to me a clear example of a rapper going deliberately 'off the beat,' dragging behind and catching up, darting around the 1 with jazzy embellishments. not to say that his way is the only way to do that, but it feels to me like Keef is not doing that at all, there is no swing, it's all pretty rigidly segmented, just not executed with a steady hand.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
one of the most interesting flows on finally rich for me is "no tomorrow," where during the verses keef starts his bars before the 1 and finishes before the 2 hits and his next bar before the 3 starts and finishes before the 4 hits... really odd pocket he's in, makes it feel like he can't get his lines out fast enough, there's quite literally "no tomorrow" for him, he's gotta get his raps out asap fuck a beat
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
We was sittin’ there watchin’ the stage. Waitin’ for the man they called Chief Keef to come out and do his thing. It was me and my four droogs. Them bein’ Peter, Georgio and Dim; Dim being really Dim.
‘Round an hour’d passed and the place was packed straight through to the back. I’d just dropped some dollars for the Best Buy exclusive version of Finally Rich six months back. Now was the time, this was the place. The Harambee House. Chicago. 2012.
I was only there for the first night, see, but them cats at DatPiff just made my life complete. They put out a few mixtapes of all that sound. Keef put out those nights. But you know my type, man. Can’t afford to eat, let alone spend some heavy cash on internet. So I only got the essential. Finally Rich is one disc, makin’ it cheaper than an iPhone. And you only get the best stuff.
Man, the opening beauty of “Love Sosa” It’s like a dream I had: I floated on the River Nile, smokin’ some fresh weed, relaxin’. But I ain’t ever gonna see the Nile anyhow. This track’s as close as I come, and it’s close enough. Best of the best, though, has gotta be “Laughin' to the Bank.” It’s only when you listen to a perfect old rap tune like this that you realize how much "trap rave" is derived from this music. Keef takes it to heaven and back with some style, man. Some richness, daddy. It’s a sad thing his career was cut short by them jaws o’ label fuckery.
Shit, cat. It don’t make a difference. The man produced enough good music to last me a lifetime. This Finally Rich thing’s just another example of the genius of Keef.
--D-40
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
that was a pretty good Mad TV sketch, props.
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
actually he's pretty consistently hitting the 1, but finishing each line before the 2 hits, it's so strange.
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 11:59 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
fwiw i think as far as his actual 'swing' goes rtc is right that it's currently at an unresolvable tension b/w 'intentional' & 'side effect of emergence' (if im mischaracterizing he can correct)
but again, w/ this particular example, what was interesting to me rhythmically was where he was deciding to slot each eight note in that 4-beat measure as opposed to where he's trying to place it on each individual beat
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
you should share these ideas on twitter
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
im glad weve reached the resolved state of empty zinging
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
not as happy as the rest of us are
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
that's a typical four four beat. keef's vocals might start on one, or the + of 4, but they might be at the beginning of one, or the end of one, which makes them feel slightly "off
lol is this not true of all writing? you can enter the line wherever & however, cf Betty Carter's virtuoso phrasing on standards like "The Trolley Song." the question is whether you are singing/rapping either in the rhythm or in a counter-rhythm that fits (toasting I think does a lot of this)
idk it's just incomprehensible to me that a person with as many years listening to and thinking hard about rap PLUS pretty deep jazz engagement can hear that Keef verse and call it "masterful" instead of "terrible"
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
the twitter suggestion was not a zing
fuckin ODB sounds more in control of where and how he diverges from the beat than Keef imo
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
This thread is making me want to listen to "Stress" by Organized Konfusion
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:24 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
of course, but some entrances are more common than others & the reason this particular example stands out is b/c he's using a pretty unconventional entrance—not sure entirely what else is going on but the effect is both disorienting but controlled.
the fact that we're picking this particular example to death makes it seem like im making a big deal out of nothing so i'm going to assert again that this isn't an argument that this is some game-changing verse or that the world is different now, just that its a cool / novel flow & sounds like he's actually quite aware of how rhythm functions
if we could stop confusing 'rhythm' with 'precision' that would be nice tho
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like you're the only person who's really focused on the Big Lean song, most of what's been said about his verse there can be said of many of his songs
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
keef just sounds entirely offbeat in a bad way on that big lean track, esp compared to most of his tracks
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
This thread made me put on some Birdman.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
this thread is a thing of wonder
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
keef just sounds entirely offbeat in a bad way on that big lean track
it really sounds like an engineer issue (ie consistently off), otherwise i don't even know.
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 2:50 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
WHICH IS WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
...AT THE SAME DAMN TIME
― Ya Bish Bosch (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
most delayed pay-off to a thread ever
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
Damn we are setting the bar high this year
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
I'm pretty sure deej has referred to three separate pairs of ideas as "two different things" itt, rhetorical hemiola y'all
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
it's funny how this "this is technically terrible wtf!" vs. "you just don't get it maaaaaan" argument never gets old
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
these bitches love hemiola
― Number None, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
My dear young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect.
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
lol number none
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
lol mookie
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
can we talk about how keef has 19 variations of "like i'm kobe"
http://rapgenius.com/Chief-keef-kobe-lyrics
but never once does a play on words about kobe beef
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but the whole song is kobe bryant references, not wordplay variations on the theme right?
― some dude, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
well yeah, but like you'd think since he'd wanna switch it up after the 20th time he said Kobe
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
I read verses like that and then I think of things like "Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Can See" and really I just wonder where it all went wrong (kind of want to blame Black Rob)
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
whiney did u just actually cite rapgenius
― attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
lol, i was hoping ppl would click on some of the great explanations
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
Omg that tip is super pro
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
(kind of want to blame Black Rob)
fuck you "whoa" is a classic
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
yeah wth
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
haha i was going through some of the rap EOY lists and was v surprised to find black rob there (and it was decent too)
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:35 (eleven years ago) link
why would you want keef to make a kobe beef pun?
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
next time i have a job i'm gonna say i'm sick with hemiola and see whether anyone bothers to look it up
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:02 (eleven years ago) link
ahahahahahahaha
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
the hemiola thing reminds me of when NPR did a feature on the appoggiatura in Adele's "Someone Like You"
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
try to tap a hemiola w/ both your hands, it's p hard to get the timing right
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
meaning, three even beats in the time the other hand does two even beats
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
if you want a peek into the musical mind of Chief Keef try patting your head with one hand while rubbing your tummy with the other one
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
my flow sick, call it hemiola
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 5:12 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
try tapping two beats for each HAWHAWHAW while you yuk it up
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:15 (eleven years ago) link
;]
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
No it isn't! If you have problems with that type of basic rhythmic figure you may not have any business calling yourself a musician.
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
if you aren't a musician it kind of is, w/out practice! are you really tapping that three evenly? (fwiw this argument has nothing to do w/ keef at this point)
drummers learning to keep time w/ each hand independent is one of the big challenges of drumming iirc?
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:23 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM4yACHcI1E
this sounds dope imo
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
it's really easy if you just think in 6/8 time. right hand beats 1-3-5-, left hand beats 1--4-- xp
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
it's hard for me to judge how difficult it is to learn to play the 3/2 rhythm because I've known how to play it for so long & it seems so natural to me, but really, it is one of the most basic rhythms used in music, and knowing how to play it is beginner-level stuff. it's not like playing 5 or 7.
xpost rev otm, it's just a simple division of 6 beats.
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^ this is exactly why the "it's different beats" argument makes no sense
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
dude i never claimed it was 'complex'
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
pol·y·rhythm A rhythm that makes use of two or more different rhythms at once.
― D-40, Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
you are arguing with the wrong people
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 January 2013 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
why are we talking about hemiolas again? i've never heard keef use one.
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:11 (eleven years ago) link
btw i'm white a jazz drummer
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:12 (eleven years ago) link
deej we're not saying chief keef is a rudimentary rapper
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
that would imply he has all the rudiments down
some dude just made my wife lol in the airport
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:20 (eleven years ago) link
lol sd
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:20 (eleven years ago) link
congrats on finally making an honest woman out of strongo, DJP
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
we are registered at Fuddrucker's
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:11 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i was trying to get across that we were talking abt the actual placement on the beat of his words rather than whether he's behind the beat or ahead or sloppy or w/e
can you tell what he's doing rhythmically on the big lean song? my initial guess was that either 1) engineer laid the verse down early, or 2) he entered unexpectedly early on purpose
― D-40, Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:32 (eleven years ago) link
3) he's a shitty rapper
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
you're a shitty poster
― D-40, Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:37 (eleven years ago) link
both of those things can be true
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:41 (eleven years ago) link
(j/k shakey you know i love u boo)
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
only one of them is
― D-40, Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:46 (eleven years ago) link
*cries offbeat*
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:46 (eleven years ago) link
*sighs in hemiola pattern*
― D-40, Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
ok, i'm going in. so you're talking about the more macro question of where he starts and ends his 16th note lines in the four bar phrase? that doesn't bother me too much, it seems like it could have been intentional but it also wouldn't surprise me if it was the engineer. what i find a lot more disconcerting to listen to is the (more micro) fact that each word is sooooo ahead of the beat. that could go either way too, but i really hope it was the engineer.
which, btw, would be super easy for an amateur engineer to fuck up. as someone who works with acapellas as a producer from time to time, it seems pretty common to get a vocal track that doesn't start exactly at the beginning of your track or even on an exact downbeat, so then it's just up to your ears to line it up correctly. and if the engineer who recorded the vocal doesn't send an extra reference version (like vocals + track together), then you can end up making an educated guess where it goes, and you also have total control however how it ends up feeling (ahead of/behind the beat, etc).
xp
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:51 (eleven years ago) link
you've heard a few of his songs, right? is that micro ahead of the beat thing a constant, or is that something applicable here only? i def get the feeling like he's either ahead or behind of the beat pretty regularly, like he's laying in some kind of weird pocket that makes it feel 'off'
― D-40, Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:55 (eleven years ago) link
when you listen to his verse on 'i don't like,' it definitely sounds more weird to me -- like his vocals sound really square & stiff because of how they've been placed on the beat
― D-40, Thursday, 3 January 2013 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
thats the 'i don't like remix' i was referring to in that last post
i know some dude had a prob w/ the 'off' feel on 'no tomorrow' but whether by accident or design i think it works b/c of that weird timing frission
― D-40, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
his rapping really is terrible tho dude. like anybody who's been listening to rap as much as you have for as long as you have should be hating on this dude harder than anybody in this thread instead of arguing that he's the rap Steve Gadd
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
There must be 50 ways to leave your chief keef
― toy_sleigher (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
just tap 3 over 2, Lou
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
feel like this is the inverse of what happens when old ppl try to convince me about michael franti
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:12 (eleven years ago) link
keef's rapping is only "terrible" in the absolute most classicist sense but fuck that
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 8:03 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think sometimes when people really ravenously devour a very particular kind of music there's a point where they run through all the actual good stuff and start championing all sorts of random stuff that just happens to be in that style. lot of indie rock and dance dudes down those kinds of rabbit holes, obviously.
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
i think any time some dude can come up w/ a way to explain that his way of listening is better than someone else's, he will
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:17 (eleven years ago) link
also speaking from personal experience of course (lol xp)
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:17 (eleven years ago) link
are y'all always this relentless
― mookieproof, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:18 (eleven years ago) link
like, i'm completely aware of the thin line b/w fucking w/ dope pop music & becoming part of the cassie fan club & have said over & over this isn't some kind of big complex thing, he's just doing something fresh w/ his delivery (unless it was an engineering error & he was placed on the wrong part of the beat). Speaking of the macro rhythm of that particular example
i haven't really said much about (and have more or less agreed with you, although it doesn't bother me the way it does you) assessment of keef having an off-beat flow.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
has it ever occurred to you guys that a) some rappers' lyrics aren't really flattered by being typed up or read and b) gucci is one such rapper?
― weingar management (some dude), Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:37 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:21 (eleven years ago) link
is that supposed to be a 'lol how things have changed' thing or what
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:25 (eleven years ago) link
^^^doesnt see the frozen crystals when he hits the cigarillo
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:28 (eleven years ago) link
Baking soda, 'iola whipping
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
cool beans, using music theory to differentiate between a flow being off & placement of words on the beat has somehow magically become about how i think keef is a genius doing rhythmic summersaults over his inspirations.
whatever makes u lol
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:39 (eleven years ago) link
you're the one throwing around words like "masterful" dog, people here are generally using the terms you introduced to the convo much more than they're putting words in your mouth
and for the record i never hated on gucci when he was in his prime (as exemplified by you delivering that when trying to find proof that i did) and i still believe that not all good rappers' lyrics look great typed out and that that includes him
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:48 (eleven years ago) link
gucci's a good counterpoint to keef though in that he's thought off as this mushmouthed dude who's always high but he's just relentlessly on point with the beat
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
thought off = thought of
thats crazy gucci is behind the beat all the TIME. his shit is super sluggish
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:53 (eleven years ago) link
he stretches words out but the consonants usually land on the drums
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:54 (eleven years ago) link
although i'm talking about the more upbeat zaytoven era stuff, maybe that's changed more with all those more slow paced later tapes that i listen to twice and then forget about
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:56 (eleven years ago) link
"you're the one throwing around words like "masterful" dog"
again, w/ regards to the rhythmic choices he makes on 1 partic. example, not where he locates (or doesnt?) the pocket in his rapping
how many times do u want to go over this?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
man I have been responsible for a good display name or two but you better give me my propers for "rap steve gadd" mr deej
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:03 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7boMvBQVQ3Q
― mookieproof, Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:04 (eleven years ago) link
I'm listening to the legit masterful rhythms of a teenaged LL Cool J right now and laughing like a cank like HAWHAWHAW
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:43 (eleven years ago) link
Hearing that over "Backstreet Freestyle"
― Tim F, Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
Argh "Backseat Freestyle". crappy joke ruined.
― Tim F, Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
no diggity
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
"backstreet freestyle" > "backseat freestyle"
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
nick carter had a dreeeeam
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:49 (eleven years ago) link
Lets just make this the rolling goon thread
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
rolling off that poly(rhythm)
― Sri Harold Klemp (crüt), Thursday, 3 January 2013 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
"blackstreet frestyle" >
― dead cera (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 3 January 2013 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
rolling al hemiola thread
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 3 January 2013 03:22 (eleven years ago) link
rolling poly ratchet thread
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 03:22 (eleven years ago) link
holy fuck strongo A+
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 January 2013 03:42 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^
― an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 3 January 2013 04:06 (eleven years ago) link
rolling off a mollya
― sisilafami, Thursday, 3 January 2013 13:03 (eleven years ago) link
rolling to the bank like hawhawhaw
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Thursday, 3 January 2013 13:53 (eleven years ago) link
I am attempting to listen to this album right now on Spotify
I will spare you all the pvmic liveblogging
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
feel like the odds of dan liking this album are p long
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
I am not sure I'm gonna make it past track 4
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
you must, for our entertainment
― lex pretend, Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
i wanted a track-by-track :(
stuck between following this thread or the Angel Haze-Azealia Banks twitter beatdown #decisions
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
I am on track 5
I currently feel like someone has repeatedly been shitting in my ears
hahahaha I was sitting here going "oh he's a little more coherent and less dumb, what's going on WAIT THIS IS 50 CENT"
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
stealing this from someone else's twitter but 50's verse makes me want a tamale
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
did he just say "every day I smell like farts"
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
(on track 6, not that it really matters because the overall impression given by the production job/sound palette on this album is that every single song is the same)
(except for track 7 which still sounds like an ICP outtake)
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
btw dan did you know that on wiz khalifa says "i'm the shit, literally" on his album? dumbest rap line i've heard maybe ever
― lex pretend, Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
hahahahahahahaha oh man
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, January 3, 2013 12:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
so you like a song? better than expected
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
oh dear god the context makes it WORSE
xp: lol deej
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
track 8 should have been a Rihanna cover, just for maximum lols
shit I said I wasn't liveblogging this
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
okay I'm done
playing Miguel now
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
fuck I forgot to turn off scrobbling
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
― lex pretend, Thursday, January 3, 2013 11:33 AM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
someone was trying to justify that line to me a month ago. there is no justifying that line.
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:00 (eleven years ago) link
part of me has been trying to give Wiz Khalifa a pass for a while now but that may be over now
― Angel Haze is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
how do you even start justifying it?!
― lex pretend, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't mind "Black and Yellow" and it sort of reminded me of my father-in-law, who is a massive Steelers fan
― Angel Haze is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
no i mean ren's friend
"black & yellow" is great, wiz is...not
― lex pretend, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
i like "roll up"
― Mordy, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
i mean i get the wiz dislike but i unabashedly love taylor allderdice
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
btw did people get far enough into the Derogatis review to notice that he interprets "I'm laughing at these lames like..." as "I'm laughing at the slave's life..."?
― JoeStork, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
― D-40, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, he's usually not in the pocket in the traditional sense and almost always rushes/falls ahead of the beat. but it's within a certain threshold where you can still call it 'feel' and it sounds cool, or at least creates an effect. the vocal on the big lean track is just on another planet though, rhythmically speaking.
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
I wanted to like Wiz Khalifa because I like the name "Wiz Khalifa"
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 4 January 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
Wiz has a great flow and I like his basic slacker persona. But he has been struggling throughout 2012, partly because the reception of his debut album seems to have confused him and partly because his already narrow range of subject matter has become even narrower after he got a girlfriend. But most of his projects are at least decent.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Friday, 4 January 2013 00:21 (eleven years ago) link
imo wiz khalifa needs to write more extensively about marijuana use
― Mordy, Friday, 4 January 2013 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
out of idle curiosity I decided to listen to this track and I don't hear anything rhythmically interesting or new about this at all; he is completely on the beat the entire time and basically doing a stupid version of something Q-Tip did about 70% of the time, only Tip managed to do so without endlessly rhyming the same word with itself.
― Angel Haze is my hero (DJP), Friday, 4 January 2013 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
otm. also this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipnTUMv3770
― mahatma lambert (crüt), Friday, 4 January 2013 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
― Angel Haze is my hero (DJP), Friday, January 4, 2013 3:04 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
if only all of keef's fans knew about q-tip, they'd listen to tribe instead
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 4 January 2013 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
yes, that's the takeaway there
― Angel Haze is my hero (DJP), Friday, 4 January 2013 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
tbf jordan has never heard q-tip
― some dude, Saturday, 5 January 2013 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
get a q-tip. listen to q-tip. these are all valid takeaways
― Binder, Binder & (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 5 January 2013 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Friday, January 4, 2013 6:02 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 5 January 2013 00:18 (eleven years ago) link
-_-
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 5 January 2013 01:40 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hhW0OWsGNs
i like this
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Sunday, 6 January 2013 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
nm this is old i'm an idiot
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Monday, 7 January 2013 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
It's a trendlet or something
http://www.tnr.com/article/111702/chief-keef-finally-rich-review-debate-race-critics
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 05:19 (eleven years ago) link
damn had no idea about the "stop writing about MY culture" tirade. Handled well though, IMO.
― NINO CARTER, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 05:38 (eleven years ago) link
you've gotta be fucking shitting me... the new republic??
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 05:49 (eleven years ago) link
Yup!
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 05:54 (eleven years ago) link
nm that's a p good piece
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 06:01 (eleven years ago) link
never forget that b dot posted this: http://rapradar.com/2013/01/07/12-underrated-albums-1-macklemore-ryan-lewis-the-heist/
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 07:42 (eleven years ago) link
This idea that "white people love chief keef because he is the Chief of Nothing and only poses a threat to other blacks in down-trodden neighborhoods" is so weird to me. Most white critics LOVED Public Enemy and the political rap of the late eightie/early nineties, partly because it was easy to legitimize as important music. And the idea that we are merely into aesthetics is wrong too I think. We do tend to get a kick out of whatever we can classify as "authentic" though - and I think that line of thought is discernible in both Deej's and J0rdan's approaches: Chief Keef can be legitimized because he is NOT a blog darling but a product of the streets of Chicago and so forth. Also, he's so young! Such perceived authenticity tends to fire up our aesthetic imagination, for better or worse.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 09:05 (eleven years ago) link
the thing about being a white guy who listens to hip hop, which i generally don't complain about because it's obviously nothing compared to how actual minorities are treated within actual power structures of society, is that there's no right way to do it -- literally any position or taste you have can pretty easily be interpreted as, if not racist, than privileged, outsider, etc. if you like no rap, you don't like black people; if you mainly like conscious/political rap, you're out of touch with what real rap fans are listening to; if you mainly like gangsta rap, you're a voyeur celebrating violence and poverty; if you like all rap, you're just obsessed with blackness in a creepy way; and so on and so on. as a critic, you at least have the option of trying to explain why you like music and why you think it's good, but of course you have to be aware of how what you say can be used against you in these kinds of accusations.
― thomp ynchon (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 12:50 (eleven years ago) link
This idea that "white people love chief keef because he is the Chief of Nothing and only poses a threat to other blacks in down-trodden neighborhoods" is so weird to me. Most white critics LOVED Public Enemy and the political rap of the late eightie/early nineties, partly because it was easy to legitimize as important music.
that was 20+ years ago and a lot has gone on in criticism since then. I think it's fair and true to say that white rap critics get excited about depictions of violence in black communities that generally won't affect them, that isn't a description of their life experience in any way - that tnr piece points out that this isn't a new phenomenon in white people engaging black art, rap is just the current space in which this dynamic is taking place.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 13:07 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's weird that there's no debate about whether wealthy white record executives can sell thousands and thousands of Chief Keef records to middle class white suburban teens, just about whether a tiny handful of white hipsters can say they enjoy it on the Internet
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 13:24 (eleven years ago) link
I mean, I guess that argument was more popular in the 90s too, but i cant exactly blame J0rdan and N0z for treating Keef like any pop artist when he's running the same major label money gauntlet of Best Buy exclusives and 50Cent guest appearances as, like, Dev.
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 13:36 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:07 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yet why do white critics get excited about depictions of violence in black communities that generally won't affect them? Is it because they're racist or context-blind aesthetes who rise above the fray or is it because they see it as some sort of authentic manifestation of something that is larger and realer than themselves and that they can only take part in through art and shed light on through criticism, compensating for their status as outsiders by emphasizing aestehtics, language, thoughtful criticism, etc? I don't think any white critic wants to legitimize the violence, but many of us would say that the violence in the art is indicative of larger problems that the art allows one to address - preferably without mistaking the messenger for the problem itself, etc. And that acknowledging the pleasure that art gives us is not a retreat from reality but a way of acknowledging that a song about killing is still a work of art and not the killing itself.
My point is that this line of thinking does not posit a strict break with the reception of PE 20 years ago - but as the music has changed, so have the strategies for coping with it.
(ship otm, btw.)
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 13:39 (eleven years ago) link
It's not like some gross 50s hipster jerking off to field recordings, it's professional pop critics listening to one of the few rap albums in 2013 that has promotion behind it. If the problem is white people celebrating nihilism, start by blaming Jimmy Iovene
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 13:40 (eleven years ago) link
(it had promotion behind it?)
And the question people should be asking, of course, is why there are not more (great) professional black critics. That is pretty bewildering, actually.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 13:45 (eleven years ago) link
It's not like some gross 50s hipster jerking off to field recordings,
― Mordy, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:36 (eleven years ago) link
lol, no it isn't
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:41 (eleven years ago) link
Why not?
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:42 (eleven years ago) link
there ARE many great black critics writing about rap (although to make a list feels i dunno wrong?). thing is, one of them is/was Elliott Wilson, who is B.Dot's boss and doesn't really seem to be interested in using their site for serious longform criticism, which makes the whole catalyst of this controversy a little ridiculous.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
"son/daughter, we are spending most of our savings and taking out massive loans for your college degree! What are you going to do with this fantastic opportunity? BTW if your answer is not 'become a doctor/lawyer/banker' I will smack all the black off of you"
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
haha can you imagine Theo telling Cliff he was gonna go write for The Source
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
I'm sure Theo Huxtable would have been a great rap critic but as long as people do become other things than lawyers, doctors and bankers and some even have a talent for writing I should think there would be room for a few critics as well?
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:50 (eleven years ago) link
i do think plenty of rap critics would love depictions of violence in neighborhoods closer to them too, look at odd future
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaah DJP
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
replace 'black' with 'yellow' and that is my life
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:54 (eleven years ago) link
I think slavery, nepotism, institutionalized racism, the slow death of print news media and the devaluation of writing as a paid skill shouldn't have happened either but guess what
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:54 (eleven years ago) link
honestly surprised how many people have responded to solange's tweets etc by skipping past "yes some good points, but i know what i'm doing as a critic" and going straight to "stfu hater!"
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
xp dayo, it's only going to be magnified in the Ivy environment too, because those schools are crucibles for doctors/lawyers/bankers/professors/businessppl; the only ppl of color I know that don't fall into those buckets are either singers from musical families or come from super, super rich families and never had to worry about having a career that made money
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
come from super, super rich families and never had to worry about having a career that made money
haha these are like all the people I know from school and I always rmde a lil' when I see on my fb feed that one of them just signed w/ a 'literary agent' or w/e
of course I also rmde when I see that they went to law/business/med school
are there no honorable professions left anymore
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:00 (eleven years ago) link
whiney's all for knocking white hipsters, but don't take away their ability to make money by reviewing rap albums, come on!
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
whiney is great at seeing creepiness in all things but his own creepiness
― Mordy, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
software! (he says with zero self-interest, none at all)
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
come on croup, u really can't be trolling that hard, dude? I'm OUT HERE protecting the $150 Jayson Greene made of Chief Keef, gtfo idiot
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
you want people to leave white hipsters alone and fight the real enemy, i get it
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
maybe ppl are just skeptical that the only thing underlining critical raves of chief keef is the excellent quality of his music
― Mordy, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
well yes, because the music is straight-up garbage
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:40 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Like Macklemore!
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
since when are professional pop critics not gross hipsters jerking off anyway?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
i'm saying hipsters aren't writing these reviews in a bubble and J0rdan, who also reviews like Justin Bieber records, is reviewing a pop phenomenon like he would any other thing vetted by a major label.
Also, yes, I'm ALL IN 100% for knocking on white hipsters, especially since they're doing way more disgusting things with black music than "writing positive reviews of it"
eg: www.facebook.com/events/408203589260930
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.facebook.com/events/408203589260930
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
i know you're still hard on hipsters, it's just sweet to see you sympathize with their desire to review pop product on the internet even when you know how it's part of a horrible system
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
i never said it was part of a horrible system? why are you putting words in my mouth you fucking creep
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
i mean i thought you might throw those fools into the fire and leave the critic game to those in the know, but here you are pointing out how they're only following orders
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:30 (eleven years ago) link
can i put forward that there are a lot of conflicts w/in the black community that keef is underlining so when white ppl are perceived to be taking sides in that it probably seems a bit weird too
i.e. generation gap is obviously a HUGE thing. & there's also class & geography.
so when Hip White Critic does his ACTUALLY DUBSTEP IS KIND OF GOOD to gangster rap there are all these other dimensions to it
i can tell you being in nyc for 3 months that simply the level of segregation here isnt even on par w/ how it is in chicago ... you dont have middle class Lincoln Park (chicago) white people living in Bronzeville in chicago, but they waltz around harlem (many parts of) like they own the place etc. it's just a completely different level of interaction.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
i think one of the things about keef is he makes guys like this seem Really Old
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktSslqEcTREI chose this example b/c it sounds like French is biting a Keef hook
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
aw, the google cache for "A Match Made In Harlem" has expired already
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
n.o.r.e. doesn't really need help seeming old
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
lol internet white guys get crazy defensive if anybody suggests there's cultural tourism present in getting excited about "nihilism" in black music (not a shot at u deej, though I still think yr nuts to rep for this guy's rapping)
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
kind of feel keef's defenders are leaning a biiiiit too heavily on the "young people like him, u old" defense
not saying it's inaccurate but it's not great criticism
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
it's not music criticism, we're talking about the controversy
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
i think if deej and j0rd fail to see the forest for the trees it's from being in chicago during keef's rise -- i've been writing about local rap passionately for ages and basically bending over backwards to avoid the kind of hyperbolic homerism they keep setting off all my red flags for
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
when bossman signs his 3 million dollar interscope deal we'll look pretty foolish
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
he signed a 2.5 mil sony deal 8 years ago -- that kind of thing going nowhere is exactly why i go "who fuckin cares" when people trot out the supposed hugeness of keef's contract
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
if they weren't going to be extraordinarily overpriced I'd buy you a pair of beats by keef's for xmas next year
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:51 (eleven years ago) link
i heard that Keef's headphones play the beat 2 seconds of where you lay down your vocals
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
of=off
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
some dude I have beef with you now that you fucked up that joke
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
sorry :(
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
"I see that Dr. Dre, whose name is virtually synonymous with state-of-the-art studio perfectionism and sonic excellence, made a lot of money with branded headphones. think we can do that with the kid whose album sounds like a mixtape made in a basement that we tacked Rick Ross verses onto? sure, why not"
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
tbf dr. dre's are overpriced rip-offs so you're criticizing the marketing alone
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
if these posts interfere with the line of high-end studio monitors I'm trying to broker with Lil B I'm gonna be pissed
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
yeah idgaf about awesome audiophile snake oil i'm just saying at least the psychology of the marketing for one actually makes sense (xp)
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
Chief Keef Brand Metronomes will be all the rage next Christmas
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
lollllll
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
looool
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
you could actually get some buddha box buzz going on a metronome that kept random time
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
brb, making a metronome that counts based off the Fibonacci sequence
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
buzza box budd <--name of a strain I am cultivating rite now
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
gets you so lifted all u can do is repeatedly click 'random threads'
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think this is being used as a defense of his music, exactly. at least not on aesthetic grounds. it's more about clearing up the narrative. there are people in rap (including the writers/bloggers on the other side of this debate) that don't see chief keef as a legitimate artist -- they either think he has been pushed to fame by "mainstream media" or by kanye west or because of his tweets -- and though all of those factors have contributed to his story, the fact of the matter is that he is where he is because he became a genuine phenomenon in one of the biggest cities in america. and the driving force behind that phenomenon was young kids.
but yeah i also do think it's worth pointing out that while the critical debate does break along racial lines, it also breaks along a generational line. every writer or blogger that i've seen speaking out against my review on twitter is at least one "era" removed from keef. i don't think it's a coincidence that none of them can even accept the idea that keef might make art that's acceptable to critique and also like.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
there are tons of young rap fans who get pretty mad about youth-oriented mainstream rap, though, the same way there are kids in nirvana and led zep shirts who are pissed about emo or w/e
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
kids also liked Haysi Fanayzee; that doesn't automatically mean anyone else should take them seriously
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:17 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
sure and rock critics should take emo seriously!
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
rip fall out boy critgeist :(
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
well, but you're drawing some conclusions about that non-coincidence, and it's a little lazy to make "I've noticed this about my opponents" the actual focus of one's reponses. also it's pretty Lefsetz to be like "if the kids like it, it's real!" or as Dan points out - kids love all sorts of crap
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
"young kids like [rapper x]" is not a reason itself for people to take someone seriously, but it's also a reason why people -- esp people in power in rap media -- will automatically dismiss an artist as illegitimate
(unless that rapper is joey badass hmm yes i wonder why)
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
...but the little grills understand
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:20 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Why shouldn't we take Chief Keef seriously though? Because someone thinks he's crap?
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
wait the kids liked haysi fantayzee? i only know them through critics
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
i don't deny Keef's album is art, it's just pretty artless as art goes
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
Shaun Cassidy maybe a better example than Haysi Fantayzee who are kind of a postmodern experiment
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
the discussion around Chief Keef reads to me like a bunch of critics hailing Carter USM as the hot new direction that will revolutionize rock music
xp: in a nutshell and from my perspective, yes; I think you can put together several objective* metrics where dude is actively horseshit
* where of course the importance of said metrics is subjective
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
but the thing in rap is that when "kids" get behind something it often becomes popular. then as critics it's something that we need to approach and evaluate and sometimes that music turns out to be really good. but this stuff can also often get popular under the noses of people with certain aesthetic biases.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
which is why it's good to have people who aren't afraid to give the game's first album an 8.4
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not even sure about what "artless" means in this context.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
― da croupier, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:28 PM (24 seconds ago) Bookmark
i have no idea what that means
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
j0rdan i feel like you're equating "dismissing something without listening to it because it's not positioned as Respectable Art" with "listening to it and concluding that it's not very good"
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
what I have been attempting to point out without baldly saying it due to the shitstorm I predict will ensue is that one of those aesthetic biases is "being as niggerish as all get-out" and it therefore shouldn't be a big surprise that some segment of the population is going to respond negatively to that shit's elevation
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
this is a narrative - really several narratives - that bears a little more scrutiny than I think adult adherents of the "kids know the truth" trope tend to give it
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
it's a joke about this site called pitchfork that has a history of giving rave reviews to rap music the kids dig even when old folks have their doubts
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
i'm reasonably sure that if critics and bloggers hadn't swarmed upon Chief Keef ahead of most "kids" outside Chicago, he would not have an album in stores right now, which complicates things a bit
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
Game was kind of an old dude comfort food-type new rapper in '05, though (especially when you consider debuts that year from Mike Jones, Young Jeezy, etc.)
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
The first Game album deserved the 8.3 Breihan gave it. And as the dude above me says, it didn't break new ground.
As for...
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:34 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
... I totally agree. But why is it a bad thing to write about music you like as if you like it? If you help music you like get new audiences, great. If they don't like it they won't support it. The problem to me comes when you pretend that your reporting is somehow superfluous to the whole affair. I don't care if the kids like Keef or not. I like Keef.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not saying it's a bad thing. just that j0rdan acting like CK's success is entirely the product of a youth movement and critics are or should be just documenting that is disingenuous at best.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, and I think perhaps deej started that line of argument. I think it's too late in the day to talk about legitimate and illegitimate ways of blowing up.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
What rankles are the broad-brush attempts to attach dude's demeanour and ethos (if he can be described as having such) to a narrative larger than himself. The point at which high minded critics decide to jump into the fray doesn't necessarily matter.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
Of course there is ethos. There is always ethos.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:44 (eleven years ago) link
And we're all part of narratives larger than ourselves that we are attached to, whether we want to our not, on a daily basis.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
sure, the fact that he had heavy media coverage early on is not in and of itself a good or bad thing. i just felt like JS was describing a scenario that doesn't acknowledge and even contradicts that fact.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
just that j0rdan acting like CK's success is entirely the product of a youth movement
this is kind of a function of a certain level of pop discourse that was once a valid reaction to the rock establishment's rejection of pop music and is now a tiresome pose that ignores how the industry actually works & hauls out the "olds don't get it!" as a prevent defense against the possibility of ostensibly youth-driven hitmakers also being awful at rap
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:47 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 11:30 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
but do you really think "being as niggerish as all get-out" is an aesthetic bias?
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
I have a lot of thoughts on this but all of y'all are terrible and I don't feel like wading in.
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
for the record i think it's a ridiculous proposition
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
I don't really see the point in attaching weight to ethos that doesn't appear to be informed by self awareness.
And I'm not denying the existence of a narrative, I just think the attempts to characterise it are clumsy and excessively visceral.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:52 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Please.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:54 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
The question of "self awareness" seems to be a central one. It pops up in all kinds of weird places in the Keef debate, as when we were discussing intentionality in regards to Keef's off-beat-ness. Is the problem that Keef is not "self-aware" enough though? What other rappers could you say that about? Or does it only pertain to Keef?
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:59 (eleven years ago) link
i just felt like JS was describing a scenario that doesn't acknowledge and even contradicts that fact.
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:45 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark
what was his "heavy media coverage" early on? deej's gawker piece? my review of his mixtape on PF?
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:02 (eleven years ago) link
guys self-awareness vs lack thereof is undergrad shit can we not
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
well, i'm not referring strictly to coverage pre-signing or Kanye remix. but yeah how many unsigned teen rapper mixtapes are getting featured on Gawker and Pitchfork? i'd say that's heavy coverage by those standards.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, January 8, 2013 12:14 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
fwiw i dont think the critical debate does break exclusively along racial lines. there are black writers who like keef's music just as there are (tons of) white ones who don't.
the critics who enjoy keef's music are already a much, much smaller minority amongst critics broadly.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
yeah. white and black critics definitely seem to like or dislike keef's music for pointedly different reasons, though.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
Based on what gets talked about/celebrated around here? It absolutely is an aesthetic bias. The reasons ppl talked about Odd Future aren't the same as the reasons ppl talked about Kendrick Lamar.
I'm not even saying it's an objectively invalid aesthetic (although subjectively? gtfo with that) but acting like it doesn't exist and it doesn't inform how people enjoy some these acts is flat-out stupid.
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:03 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i would argue that the story was going to get out no matter what, once it had broken on worldstar. Then it became a question of who was first to cover it. It's like discovering the mississippi river, a story like this, from the weird angle of his immigrant producer to the story of recording it in his grandmothers ... i mean, lil b and soulja boy had recorded tracks w/him before a single publication covered him, and the cosigns were already coming in before the gawker article even ran.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:06 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
they do??
how many acts broke on worldstar that never get that kind of coverage, though? it feels like all you're saying is he's the exception because he's exceptional, when you were actively part of a group of people who helped make him the exception.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:03 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
right but if you take away these two stories -- or at least deej's gawker story -- then the whole narrative of "mainstream/hipster media" pushing chief keef begins to fall apart. things really blew up with the kanye remix which had nothing to do with that piece... though people would like for you to believe that kanye west "discovered" chief keef because of "media hype" and now we all have to deal with chief keef because of that. which just isn't true.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
you guys act like you've never seen a hood superstar before. lots of dudes are heroes to a few thousand kids in their city and NEVER get on.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:59 (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah Imma call red herring on the self awareness thing. It's reciprocal, if critics are going to attach that much weight to dude's music it has to be able to speak back to some degree, yet everything that's supposedly interesting about Keef is peripheral to what it is he's actually doing.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:11 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
so why did keef catch on?
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:09 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is a total chicken-egg type thing in that sense. All I can tell you is that I jumped on it because I felt like if I didn't, someone else was going to and I was going to regret not having done it, because I believed that I would tell the story more accurately & with more contextual awareness than most of the people who would be likely to write about it. And I can tell you that in the run-up to Gawker actually running it, I was concerned that someone else would be publishing something any day if I didn't get there, and was kind of nervous that some big star would end up cosigning it.
This worry ended but being silly because getting their 'first' just meant that people accused me of manufacturing it, so that sucked
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:13 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
??? i disagree
I'm forced to talk about the peripheral stuff because otherwise i'm "just being aesthetic" in my critique, bc of all kinds of obvious contextual concerns
But that doesn't mean that's why I enjoy the music
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:13 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
unalienable artistic skill, clearly
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
& yeah @ some dude, taken to its logical conclusion your argument would imply I could just manufacture a successful artist like it was nothing, but people write stories about rappers in publications all the time & nothing happens with their careers ... Keef has a song shooting up the hot 100 right now. Riff Raff got a Gawker feature, and he most definitely doesn't.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:16 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:15 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
why is that so hard to believe? his music stands out to me, and to lots of other people.
you're just saying things are the way they are because they were destined to be, not that any individual factor had any effect. basically the way rappers talk about their own success.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
yeah if only every mixtape rapper i review on pitchfork signed to interscope
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
seriously, some dude you are talking out of your ass right now
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 12:30 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
But there are tons & tons of artists who could arguably (i'm not arguing it) fit this description, but this one happened to hit, and while I agree that his symbolic presence is part of the reason that he's resonated, i would virulently disagree that it is The Reason that he in particular is where he is. Basically, I think it's borderline offense for haters OR fans to deny him his humanity & agency in his own success
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
talking about a media snowball effect is not the same as saying that any single snowflake could have individually caused the whole thing, i'm not attributing anything to anyone
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
lil durk got signed to def jam because the quietus reviewed his single
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
one gawker feature and a mixtape review is a pretty small snowball dogg
if they were the whole of the snowball yes that'd be a small one.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
i guess i don't know the difference between "media snowball effect" and "the media doing its job and covering a story"
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
http://thebrotherhoodofevilgeeks.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/4132321_std.jpg
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
were all the hysterical bloggers jumping on the "teen has gun, raps about it, IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD" angle just doing their job too?
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
I really think deej should be proud about getting there "first". There's no doubt that the urge to get there first also invested the story with a certain energy that made it... well... debatable in the first place. He did use the phrase "hip hop's next big thing" well before keef was anything close to hip hop's next big thing, after all. Wasn't it the same day that the Don't Like video dropped? So of course that did something to how the discussion turned out.
But forreal, Keef managed to release a good major label debut with songs that people actually care about just nine months after that article was printed. So this whole guilt thing that seems to be heaped onto that article is pretty stupid.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
but yeah how many unsigned teen rapper mixtapes are getting featured on Gawker and Pitchfork?
to me this is really distorting reality and it's the same trap that ensnared people who think chief keef is a media-created fable. "how many unsigned teen rapper mixtapes are getting featured on Gawker and Pitchfork" seems like a really small fry to consider when the real question is "how many unsigned teen rappers get a kanye west remix and signed to a deal by a major label that includes a headphone line and a movie production"
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
Context is necessary but if people are suspicious about the motivations of critics regarding Keef it's probably because the overemphasis on context paired with the paucity of substance seems like the fetishization of something that's been very real for a lot of people in Chicago.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
and those latter two things were happening even if deej and i drove into lake michigan in nov 2011 xp
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
i don't begrudge deej at all for being ahead of the curve and on top of the beat he was covering, or that one of the stories he covered early got very big.
that said, i would barf if i ever found myself writing the phrase "next big thing" with no irony.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
HOW MANY UNSIGNED TEEN RAPPERS GET TO MAKE A VIDEO WITH RiFF RaFF?!
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
how many drinks would it take for me to love keef?
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:31 (eleven years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:29 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark
well al you should know as well as anyone that writers don't write headlines
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:31 (eleven years ago) link
eh i didn't realize it was the headline, longneck just said he used the phrase
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
yah umm i didn't write the headline, and the actual piece i wrote contains no arguments w/r/t whether he was going to be the 'next big thing'
that said, i thought that the headline was going to be proven right, but some ppl assumed causation
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
there definitely is a whole reflexive culture around anything new being reacted to as if it's the NEXT BIG THING that a lot of reactions to Keef were predicated on -- like in the initial days after the Rebecca Black thing hit, a lot of the comments on the "Friday" YouTube seemed to be under the impression that it was the new hit song that a major label was earnestly foisting on the public.
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
i think it's cool that we have such influential people in the hip-hop business posting to ilx
― Mordy, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
It was definitely the headline.
Hip-Hop’s Next Big Thing is On House Arrest at His Grandma’s: Meet Chief Keef
ThePartyHater 12 Mar 2012 7:24 PMYikes. I love hip hop but this does nothing for me, pretty boring. The Cunninlyguists should be the next big thing, not this shit. damnedifyoudo1 @ThePartyHaterI agree. Just don't see much there. I really just wanted to chime in and recommend Sage Francis (just one example)
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
lol at "ThePartyHater"
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
foreshadowing B. Dot's Macklemore standom
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
Yikes
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
"Hip-Hop’s Next Big Thing is On House Arrest at His Grandma’s" reminds me of "God's Gift to Songwriting needs a manager"
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
(just one example)
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
I guess sometimes when you refuse to use big words yourself your employers feel like they have to do it for you.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
if that was true Interscope would've released the album as Conclusively Affluent
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
"I agree that you have a point but I'm going to violently disagree with this thing you didn't actually say and hope it discredits your original point"
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
what? first off i said virulent, not violent
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think anyone believes Keef isn't doing exactly what he wants to do; the argument is about whether it's actually worth listening to.
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
It's worth listening to.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think anyone believes Keef isn't doing exactly what he wants to do
maybe on ilx
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
if what i'm saying doesn't discredit your point, then we agree! the virulence is directed at very real criticisms i've read that try to imply that rather than A reason, what he 'represents' is The reason—I wasn't implying i was a priori disagreeing w/ you dan
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:45 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
eh i wouldn't recommend it to everyone & i'm not surprised dan dislikes it. it's 'divisive' for a reason
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:46 (eleven years ago) link
Well it's worth listening to if you're inclined to enjoy slow, non-empathic goon music. And if you categorically don't then the discussion probably isn't going anywhere interesting.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
"slow" as in tempo or "slow" as in stupid
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
i like a lot of goon music, i personally don't think he's that great at it. i can't be the only person who loved the Future album and doesn't give a shit about the Chief Keef album can i?
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:52 (eleven years ago) link
nope
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
crut you liked a keef song when i shared it w/ you last winter.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 8:51 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol, tempo
And it's perfectly possible to like Future and not Keef - that's the kind of preference that might lead to an interesting discussion
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
lmao @ crut.xls
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i love stuff like waka, gunplay, jeezy, but while i can kinda appreciate that keef nails what he's going for his music does nothing for me
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
normally I would ridicule the conflation of "song" with "album" but, after trying to get through the Chief Keef album, I completely understand why one would assume that liking one song would automatically lead to liking the whole album
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
everyone is allowed to like or dislike keef as they wish, what i think jordan & i are bristling at is the implication that there's nothing we could possibly appreciating about his musical approach so it simply MUST be tied to stereotyped views of black people.
IMO Keef is doing the most interesting version fo this type of music right now. I can't think of an artist in this lane that is doing it as well. (And Future, although influential on him, is a completely different kind of artist).
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
well tbf I am making a distinction between "like" and "give a shit about" - not trying to throw Keef under the bus here, I still like 3Hunna & I Don't Like
xposts
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i enjoy "I Don't Like" but i don't really place any more stock in Chief Keef's artistry than Ca$h Out or anyone else with one or two good songs
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:55 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
see, this kind of dismissal though seems so absurd to me—it's the kind of critique like "he has great beats but cant rap" that crops up EVERY time a rapper comes out in this lane & that suggests to me the person is simply outside the target listenership for that style of music period.
even if you don't like the music most of these songs really don't sound that identical to each other, even less so than Flockaveli
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
cash out is so much more generic, tho
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
as rap albums go, Finally Rich is more self-similar than most
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
i think the aspect of the +ve crit i've read about keef that i take most issue with is the angle that he's doing something innovative or different - really it sounds like slower, less fun waka to me. i mean i fux with "i don't like" but it doesn't work on that level at all, it's just a screwface anthem
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
one man's consistent/cohesive is another man's monochromatic/repetitive (xp)
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
oh c'mon deej they sound pretty similar! to the album's benefit i think, it's not an aesthetic that grabs me but it gives the album a coherence and purpose - it succeeds on its terms
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
i hate bein' sosa, i'll take you to the magic stick
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
i cant agree. 'ballin' sounds more like a rich kids type track, 'diamonds' has more of a waka sound, 'citgo' is just bleary weirdness, 'love sosa' is in its own world, 'hate being sober' swipes that melody but shifts to an upbeat / major key context, 'no tomorrow' is mike will & has the weird echoing adlib styles ... each song sounds pretty distinct to me
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
keef does not have even one millionth the pop nous that peak 50 cent did, that comparison is completely ludicrous to me
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
― lex pretend, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 3:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he doesnt actually sound anything like waka, wayyy too casual / laid back style
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
xp flockaveli is also more diverse than it initially seems (like "no hands" and "grove st party" don't really fit into the big elephantine lex luger riffs thing) but fundamentally yes the songs do all sound the same, especially in comparison to a lot of major label albums these days which are all over the map
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
He gets compared to 50 Cent?
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
idk that's just a completely bizarre perspective to me. the keef album almost feels a bit too piecemeal, i was hoping for something MORE cohesive rather than stuff taken from all over the place
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
xp yes hence "slower, less fun", but the aggressive chant-along functionality is what's similar
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 3:05 PM (15 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
50 cent compared him missing the 'hate being sober' shoot to if 50 missed the 'in da club' shoot
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
deej i hope you realize how much you sound like a Guided By Voices stan painstakingly explaining WHICH track on the new album corresponds to WHICH band from Nuggets
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
I'd love for Ca$h Out to make an album as good as Finally Rich. Let's hope he does!
And Finally Rich isn't too self-similar soundwise. If I have a problem with anything it's that Keef is a much less... relatable rapper than even most Bricksquadians. I have no idea about who he "really" is - even Juicemane's puppy dog-like enthusiasm is easier to relate to. Which is not to say that he isn't a bigger star than Juicemane or that other people don't feel like they can't relate to him or his blankness or even that his blankness isn't interesting in its own right - just speaking for myself.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
lol I'm back reading deej's descriptions of this stuff and going "how on earth can you justify these claims, this guy's shit sounds fucking identical from track to track unless you go waaaaaaay out of your way to pretend it doesn't"
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
it is borderline hilarious that deej is attempting to tell me, a dude who has spent more than half of his life listening to entire genres of dance music built off of either one drum loop or one specific combination of drum machine and synth that these grossly similar songs are actually vastly different and I'm just missing the nuance
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
Finally Out of Cash
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
"way out of my way"?? i feel like people acting like this album all sounds the same have absolutely no context in recent rap which, (hey jordan's review!) except then Al is here agreeing with them, which makes no sense
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
i don't really get that keef's music is any MORE nihilistic or negative than most street rap, either - i guess the back story plays into this? playing surliness for kicks isn't a new thing. actually keef's persona reminds me of a lot of grime MCs from back in the day
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 3:07 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
surely within that context it makes MORE sense that I would think these songs sound unique?
i guess you guys thinking 'all these songs sound the same' it makes a lot more sense that you can't divulge any meaning from them.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
kaykay is a fukkin autotune rap ballad, sounds exactly the same as 3hunna? or kobe? none of those songs use the same sounds, the same producers, or the same rap styles
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
IF I CATCH ANOTHER MOTHERFUCKER TALKIN SWEET ABOUT CHIEF KEEF, IM FUCKING BEATING THEY ASS
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:06 PM (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
his flow is different on each one. the effects are different. the production tools are different. the subject matter is different
Rap has been nihilistic for a while now guys. Too much nihilism can't be the real problem with keef.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
funny xxp but i'm talking purely about the accuracy here, i'm def not trying to convince the lex to put keef on his year end list
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:10 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://i.imgur.com/7WOj5.gif
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
man reading these posts is kinda like "well halloween was on a thursday last year, this year halloween is on a wednesday"
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
obv i agree w/ deej that the tracks don't sound the same. and i don't think dissecting their influences on a per-track basis is a bad thing. keef is nothing if not a product of his influences.
i think the album fails only at its most generic post-luger (i.e. the french montana track)
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
deej all i said was "as rap albums go, Finally Rich is more self-similar than most," which i think is pretty undeniable, if we're talking about the major label rap world of Nicki Minaj doing a pu pu platter for multiple radio formats or Game doing guest MC karaoke, etc.
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
this year halloween fell on a weekend
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:12 PM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
literally i'm the pu pu
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
the songs "sound the same" only if the context is, like, the entire history of music or something. but w/in the context that the album came from, the songs don't sound the same.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
you need zero context to listen to an album's worth of music by an artist in any genre and say whether the tracks sound similar. you, for example, could listen to a Heinous Killings album as say "you know, all this shit sounds the same" and you'd be otm (I like Heinous Killings btw, "all the songs sound the same" isn't necessarily a knock in all cases as far as I'm concerned ) and then listen to Havohej's Kembatinan Premaster and say "well this is all pretty relentless but there's definitely sonic variation from track to track that seems headed somewhere" - you could do this despite this being almost surely the first time you've heard either band mentioned. there can be variation within a small field, as djp notes. but the only real barrier for discussion is whether a person has listened to music - an honest listener shouldn't need some "recent rap" skill set to decode whether one track sounds different from another.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
i think within the scope of 2012 rap, which is a pretty broad tent, it's not THAT varied. i mean, he found one of the biggest sonic outliers on the album by searching for "Finally Rich type beats" on the internet. xp
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
this is like when deej got in that huge fight about the wild difference between "soooober" and "soooosa" like it was "Back in the USSR" vs "Revolyution no. 9" on the White Album
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
that huge fight you made up?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 3:15 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
all metal sounds the same cookie monster vocals and screeching guitars
i mean, he found one of the biggest sonic outliers on the album by searching for "Finally Rich type beats" on the internet. xp
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:15 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark
idk "citgo" is in the same vein as "ballin" and "kaykay" which are a few of the album's oldest songs
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
those three songs all sound pretty different, in mood, in effect. "ballin" and "kaykay" are closer, tho still pretty distinct to anyone w/ a passing understanding of hip hop
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
T.I. and Wiz and A$AP and Ross and 2 Chainz made recent albums that each reflect a much larger variety of production styles or lyrical influences -- i'm not saying that makes them better albums, in fact it directly contributed to some of them being much worse
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:17 PM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
youre not wrong and I still like it
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:17 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it was on ilx idk
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
i would argue that 2 chainz album is probably more same-y in sound overall
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
2 SAAAAAAAMEEEEEE
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
i COULD listen to Heinous Killings and be like "hmmm this shit all sounds the same" but i wouldn't expect for my opinion to be taken seriously at all
in fact this is explicitly why i've never written about metal in my entire life
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
shit sounding the same is not inherently a problem. shit sounding like shit is a problem.
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
there's a fake ratchet song on the 2 chainz and the weird Rubin rip with the eddie van halen scratch solo and the Kanye song with key changes, come on man, you sound like an idiot right now
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
lol this is the last refuge of the man with no argument - "you're saying all rap sounds the same!" no man I'm pretty sure I was listening to rap beginning in '84, what I'm saying this guy sucks.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
^^^
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
j0rdan can we do a j0rdan listening club metal edition pleeeeease. we can start with a molly hatchet album!
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:22 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark
lol @ this
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 3:22 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol wtf. the reason i said that was to pt out how absurd your argument was
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
don't think anyone here is specifically knocking Keef for the uniformity of the album's sound
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
i love the keef album but you're as fucking delusional as a nas stan if you dont think the whole thing sounds the same
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
yeah play kaykay next to diamonds, cant tell them apart!
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
you are not getting me to listen to this bullshit again that easily
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
one thing i will say is the drunken vampire voice songs like "love sosa" definitely sound a bit different from the ones where he has a fairly normal american teenager voice
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
the songs "sound the same' in only the most facile sense
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
I do love it when internet rap dudes take criticism of an artist they like as an opportunity to say somebody's assailing rap. the most cowardly grade-school defense imaginable. the subject is chief keef and how his album is a bunch of garbage by a guy who I, literally me, the middle-aged white guy talking to you, could decimate in a battle, because I could rap much better than him and I can't rap for shit. deej could beat keef in battle. whiney too. Tuomas would body Keef in 8 bars and drop the mic onto the icy Finnish stage, and mist would rise from the mic, and the mist would spell "HOW CAN ACTUAL RAP HEADS WITH CRED REP THIS HOT GARBAGE" in a small speech-bubble cloud briefly in the air before dissipating. That is the issue.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:22 PM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yes, but FR has 3Hunna which is 61 bpm instead of the usual 65-66.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
listen i would say the same thing about Jeezy's The Recession and i LOVE that album. as i said, one man's cohesive/consistent is another man's monochromatic/repetitive. xp
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
(Actually, Got Them Bands is 82! (But it's a bonus track))
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
i guess i don't see why it matters if chief keef can battle rap
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
no, i think the recession sounds wayyy more samey (in a good way) than keef's album. Same with flockaveli
i just think that it doesnt really describe finally rich at all. the production is pretty wildly varied, as are his flows, delivery, etc
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
thats like a parody of a D-40 post
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
i mean one thing about j0rdan's review that drove me a little nuts is that it basically praised the album for sticking to the aesthetic of keef's mixtapes far more than it explained why sticking to those guns was preferable to pepsi-ready major label moves. i'm curious how many people who love Finally Rich were dutifully following Keef's mixtapes/youtubes for the last 6-12 months and how many were won over by the album without having heard much of his music before that.
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
think my disappointment w/ the album stems from the hype I had been hearing about laughing to the bank and when I put it on it literally was the same exaggerated laugh sound I make when I am imitating a TV villain
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
again -- finally rich sounds "samey" in a very broad context. very broad. but in the context from which it was birthed i think it's more inventive in various ways than a lot of albums.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
haha yeah when i heard it i was like "this is just 50/Yayo's Straight To The Bank" xp
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
like chief keef literally sounds like vegeta from dragon ball z
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:31 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark
i love it but i was surprised how many ppl had apparently forgot about this song
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
/thread
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
i keep this shit over nine thousand
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:31 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's way more varied than his mixtape was and in a good way. Somehow I can't see any great epiphanies arising from this debate on variation though.
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
yeah 'back from the dead' was WAY more 'samey' or consistent in that recession/flockaveli sense
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
yes
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
but in the context from which it was birthed i think it's more inventive in various ways than a lot of albums.
actual q - can you bear this out a little more? do you mean that the general atmosphere is pretty homogenous and by comparison Keef's record has more variety? it's essentially a non-issue, there's plenty of good rap albums where there's very little variety, variety isn't necessarily a good thing. the problem is when stuff sounds all the same and the rapping sucks real bad, then you're left thinking "if you must rap so terribly at least mix up the grooves a little"
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
of course the mixtape produced by one dude (i guess? dunno if it's all young chop) and only featuring other young chicago guys is going to sound more uniform than the major label album only half-produced by that one dude and featuring several stars with established styles
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
i mean if we're comparing Finally Rich solely to street rap mixtapes, yes, those tend to not be especially varied. i thought we were comparing them to other rap albums on the Billboard 200.
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:33 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lmao good ref
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:39 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
well yeah i think that compared to albums by 2 chainz or future or stretching back further waka or jeezy or soulja boy -- all artists that are direct influences on keef... a group which i think is limited -- that 'finally rich' is more experimental in a lot of places... be it in terms of song structure ("kay kay" or "citgo") or his vocals ("no tomorrow" or "love sosa" or "hate being sober") or the mixing. the beats don't sound "more different" than a lot of rap albums but then again as al pointed out that's not always a good thing in rap.
i think the way that keef thinks about music is similar to wayne & gucci... probably my two favorite rappers of the last 10 or so years. i highly doubt that he'll ever reach those levels, but both of those rappers were really playful with their music and in turn were pop in a unique and organic way.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:00 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:30 PM Bookmark
last I checked all the hype around "Laughing to the Bank" was of the "I like this song cause Keef does an exaggerated TV villain laugh" variety
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:02 (eleven years ago) link
how is "love sosa" more experimental or that different from any given garbled future space ballad
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
idk about 'more' but it sounds nothing like any of those songs, or any other rap song really. it's an original song w/ an original sound
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
But Keef is way more of an introvert than all these guys? It's as though he is communicating with his friends whereas Gucci, Future, Wayne are far more conversational rappers, although in very different ways.
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
i dont think thats what introvert means & i don't really see keef as being that radical compared to those guys either.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
there's not much of a "you" in his songs - a "y'all" at best
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
maybe insular rather than introverted?
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
he's not really more radical than wayne/gucci/future but he's in the conversation... and those three have huge cults of personality surrounding them. wayne esp
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 10:15 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah - something something something subjectivity
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:20 (eleven years ago) link
― lex pretend, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:03 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark
well for one during the verses there's an entire layer of vocals that's just a continuous stream of ad-libs as if there's a bunch of disembodied keef heads floating around whispering at each other
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:21 (eleven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/bdotTM/status/288735106271674368
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
hey cool, me too! wait a second...
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
lmao @ "there's been a lot of race baiting"
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:24 (eleven years ago) link
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 10:20 PM (0 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's close to what people (me included) have used to refer to by "blankness" but not quite. Gucci, Wayne, Future and even Waka all have pretty elaborate selves that can do things and be things. Keef just isn't there in a way. I think that's where he departs from his (short) "tradition". What Jordan is referring to above as "a bunch of disembodied keef heads floating around whispering to each other" is kinda what I'm after.
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
you mean "race bating"
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
'bating
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:27 (eleven years ago) link
who is master bating?
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
go 'way, batin
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:30 (eleven years ago) link
Woah guys! Thanks had a long day of airports/air travel, got me through
Only thing I'll add is Molly Hatchett is NOT metal, they are southern rock, lots of ppl get that twisted because of the album art
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:30 (eleven years ago) link
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:25 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i dont really get this at all. Future is way more 'blank' or less 'present' as a personality in his music than keef is to me
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:35 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:37 (eleven years ago) link
I feel like there is a Speed-style scenario going on here that we aren't privy to, like some Dennis Hopper-ish figure is pointing a gun at deej's head and forcing him to paint Chief Keef as the most thrilling, distinctive, talented and multi-faceted artist of his generation every (x) minutes or he'll pull the trigger
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
Nah Future just about manages to put across a sense of yearning with his melodic autotune mumbles. keef is dead eyed and monotone.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
Again: We're not talking about the same thing, deej. Future can say/sing/rap "I'm looking for her" - but that's something it's hard to imagine Keef saying. There's a very different sense of subjectivity in his stuff.
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:21 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i have absolutely no idea how this is different from how dozens of other rappers use ad libs/backup vocals
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
get thee to a pete rock and cl smooth album
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:44 (eleven years ago) link
lil jon yelled iirc
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:45 (eleven years ago) link
Ca$h Out doesn't dub his ad-libs in he just has a parrot on his shoulder that repeats everything he says
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
haha Ca$h Out's "guy outside the vocal booth yelling encouragement" ad libs are hilarious
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:42 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
wtf is a 'sense of subjectivity'
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
it would be funny if there was some other guy named Sosa that all of Keef's songs were written in praise of
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
*Alejandro Sosa blushes*
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
can somebody post their top 10 rhymes from "Finally Rich" please
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
chief keef and kaiser sosa
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:54 (eleven years ago) link
so you can compare it to 'deep' lyrically-oriented rap & scoff? no thanks
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:55 (eleven years ago) link
his lyrics are GOOD just not 'lyrical'
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz3m51W3QB1r861j5o1_500.jpg
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 22:58 (eleven years ago) link
Let's just ponder this statement for a while
Kind if wasn't expecting anyone to go for the "he's the Bernard Sumner of hip-hop" argument
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:00 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIcNgjqtO8Y
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
his lyrics perform a function. unfortunately it's not a very worthwhile or interesting function.
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:03 (eleven years ago) link
or fun even
I figured Sosa was a Sammy Sosa thing?
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:04 (eleven years ago) link
you guys are making age old rockist arguments just fyi
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:04 (eleven years ago) link
Perhaps we are if you didn't actually understand the age-old rockiest argument
"Rock music is superior to rap because the lyrics MEAN SOMETHING" is a rockist argument. "This dude has terrible lyrics in a genre driven by lyrics" is not a rockist argument.
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
Deej: it's about how they communicate what the experience of being them is like. Gucci, Future and Waka are way more conversational than Keef - they invite you to take part in their eccentricities in a way that Keef does not. Gucci is a pretty menacing type but he's still very much communicating/joking with the listener. It's unstable but the link is established. As for Future, you could sing/rap his songs to people and they would feel like you were trying to tell them something. Waka can be antisocial but he still invites you to partake in his emotions. Keef is... insular. I don't get the feeling that he's sharing or having a conversation or even looking at the "you" he's referring to in his lyrics. And I think that's partly why he can scare people. He's not TELLING us that he doesn't care. He just doesn't care. Or that's the impression I get anyway.
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
"This dude has terrible lyrics in a genre driven by lyrics" is not a rockist argument.
I think deej is ceding that rap is no longer driven by lyrics tbh
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:09 (eleven years ago) link
i am not ceding that nor do i think he has 'terrible' lyrics
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:10 (eleven years ago) link
you seem way more invested in narrative than lyrical prowess afaict
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:10 (eleven years ago) link
i also dont think longneck's description of his lyrics are true either--keef's shit is full of humor. i mean fuckin 'laughin to the bank' is the ultimate example. but 'i gets lots of commas, i can fuck your mama' is a funny lyric. calling himself & ballout the 'bang brothers' is a funny lyric.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:11 (eleven years ago) link
people source 'lyrical prowess' in the wrong places
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
Does rap need to be "driven by lyrics"?
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
i gets lots of commas, i can fuck your mama' is a funny lyric
come on now
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
I haven't heard this, it kinda feels like when I used to read gawker recaps instead of actually watching jersey shore or real housewives
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
You can accuse me of making a conservative argument and I'd say "yup, guilty as charged" but it's not rockist
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
this thread has become explaining to shakey mo why your mama jokes are funny i want no part
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
As for Future, you could sing/rap his songs to people and they would feel like you were trying to tell them something.
is he lassie?
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
I am not describing his lyrics btw. I can definitely see the humour. But it's a new style.
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
Future Lassie? Sure. I'd buy that.
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:14 (eleven years ago) link
dude that line barely qualifies as a your mama joke, the second half has nothing to do with the first (and what is this "can" shit - wouldn't "did" or the active verb be funnier?) what a horribly formed joke etc
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:14 (eleven years ago) link
Keef is... insular. I don't get the feeling that he's sharing or having a conversation or even looking at the "you" he's referring to in his lyrics
is this actually something that's in the lyrics/music or is it your imagination b/c it seems wildly off base to me
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:15 (eleven years ago) link
i agree with deej that keef is basically humorous but that line is not a great example
oh now lex is weighing in on humor
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
If it's not in the lyrics I guess it must be in my imagination.
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno, most Sosa lines I can think of are Scarface references so I went with that. Could be Sammy.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:04 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
says the guy who says that people need a real background in hip hop in order to appreciate the diverseness of chief keef's album... ?
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
lol, lol, lol at you. no, friend, that's not why. it's so I can see if you can actually cite any good lyrics by this guy you rep. you can't, because he is a shitty rapper and terrible lyricist. I get that he gives you a vibe that you can then wax impressionistic ("bleary") bout. He's the witch house of rap. Congratulations on repping Salem.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
bodied
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
I mean rap is a genre of lyrics for Christ's fucking sake, if a rapper writes shitty lyrics and can't rap then he sucks, this is easy. Lol for 1000 years at "it's rockist to want a rapper to be able to write something, anything, memorable." Rappers whose rhymes suck...are shitty rappers forever & ever & no amount of purple prose about their personae will ever change that. Jesus Christ internet rap dudes, if you wanna be into celebrity culture then get into Britney like the rest of the world but leave rap to people who like rapping
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
but he rhymed comma with mama!
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:23 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:22 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
dog fuck you
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
'wax impressionistic' about? i was just talking about the production
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:26 (eleven years ago) link
in an effort to explain why the sounds are completely mind-blowingly obviously different from track to track
and should be to anyone WITHOUT a background in hip hop who isn't a complete brain-dead moron
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:27 (eleven years ago) link
(contra dayo)
dayo itt is like the tiny pipsqueak dude that stands around a fight and goes "yeah! fuck em up! yeah!" while shuffling his feet back a few inches every time a punch is thrown
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
My thing is, I could recite the poem I wrote in high school about the misunderstood demon who couldn't stop killing people over an orchestra doing nonstop glissandi and call it a bel canto aria but I wouldn't expect anyone who understood what a bel canto aria is to think it was any good, except maybe Diamanda Galas.
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
leave rap to people who listen to one rap album per year and have shitty reductive ideas? why didn't we think of this sooner!
― flopson, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that's def a conservative argument xpost
― da croupier, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:28 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
this is in direct contradiction to areo's argument
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:33 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:18 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Time passes...
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:26 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:27 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:33 (eleven years ago) link
"i gets lots of commas / i can fuck your mama" "This man bitch steady calling, I wonder how she got my number / I think she got it from Ballout, You know we them bang brothers""I say if you need a feature, homeboy hit up my line / I love when me and Ben Franklin be spending some time""Watch me shoot this three, infirmaries, death / I got twenty seven more of them be courtesy shells""call up d-money, now we throw money / all these bitches off the shits walkin' round like some zombies"
http://24.media.tumblr.com/5175859feaea8be5bada311aa929ada5/tumblr_mf238adrzr1r03eaxo1_500.gifits a record about fuckin balling and getting money & shooting ppl in the face when they try to rob you at gunpoint, its a gangster rap record & making points in a clear & obvious way is the point
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:34 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:28 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm really diggin this self portrait
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:34 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSKZgEnbYI
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:08 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
right, well none of this applies to chief keef.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
chief keef wrote the most iconic and memorable lyric of 2012, i hate to break it to you
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
"every day I smell like farts"?
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
now maybe you would say that "that's that shit i don't like" is a "shitty" lyric, but then it would be obvious from where your argument is really coming from
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
"Watch me shoot this three, infirmaries, death / I got twenty seven more of them be courtesy shells"
that should be "and" not "of"
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
that's like saying kanye had the best lyric of 2011 with 'that shit cray' xp
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
you may also think that "these bitches love sosa / raris and rovas" is a "shitty" lyric and that the fact that its oft-repeated, parroted and meme'd means that whether something is "memorable" should be immaterial to the discussion about the quality of lyrics, but then your original argument wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:36 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes saying someone who has 'no context' in recent rap is definitely the same as saying someone needs to be steeped in the background of hip hop to see the differences
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
ad communication: take Understand Me for instance. Chief is beggng me to understand him, but he does it in a totally nonchalant, detached way that makes it clear that a) he's not really expecting me to understand him or even say something he wants to hear, and b) it really doesn't matter anyway. The ad libs are pretty unfocused, happy with being sounds rather than emphasizing how important it is that I understand him. Then enter Jeezy, the traditional goon, who starts off by referencing Keef's hit, as if it is really important to him that we understand that he is very aware of whose song he is on. As his verse proceeds, he uses his ad libs to create the illusion that he is in fact the ideal audience to his own narrative, laughing at the jokes, admiring the objects of desire he describes in his verse - totally immersed in communicating. Now I'm specifically not saying that because of this Keef is a lesser lyricist than Jeezy - I am describing their styles and delivery and the impression created by them and how Keef differs from other goons.
In Gucci too there is always an element of "look at me, see what I can do and say" - a joy in acting aout the Gucci persona - that is not exactly lacking but rather obscured or displaced in Keef.
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:46 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is kind of otm tho
― 乒乓, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:46 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark
look i'm not the one who accused chief keef of not having "memorable" lyrics
i dont understand what longneck is saying btw
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
which is fine, and I'm sympathetic to populist arguments
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
i was going to listen to this to form an opinion but now I'm afraid of shrapnel from either side so I'm gonna be unperson-proud of not having heard it.
― NINO CARTER, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
best lyric on understand me is
'rob him for his stacks, if he's the son of sam / who gives a fuck we don't care bout nothin' fam'
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:48 (eleven years ago) link
you may say that "hate being sober" is merely a song title and not a "memorable" lyrics, but then again https://twitter.com/search?q=%22hate%20being%20sober%22&src=typd
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:49 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 11:47 PM (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Eh. Do you perceive a difference between Keef and Jessie's approaches to rapping on Understand Me? If so, what does it consist in?
― future kendricks (longneck), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
was unaware son of sam had stacks tbh
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
i love the entire hate being sober verse, it all flows together perfectly:
On my tour bus, we get dumb high, you’s a floor boyFredo got a hangover he toting a CobraLast night he was shooting shit up like O-DogReesy rollin, Tadoe got hoes on molliesChief Sosa, Ballout, we high riding ‘RarisMy bitches love drinking, some love smokingLet my alcoholic bitch hit the dope, she start chokingCall up D-Money, now we throw moneyAll these bitches off the shits walk around like some zombiesCall up D-Money, now we throw moneyAll these bitches off the shits walk around like some zombies
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
I can't lie I really like this one a lot
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:50 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that's a separate thought. they rob him for his stacks, they're unafraid even if he's the son of sam
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
trying to pull apart where keef's lyrics are "good" and where they're "memorable" runs counter to the entire point of his music -- like waka he says he made a conscious decision to write simple lyrics. and if you admit that he has memorable lyrics -- or there's a mountain of evidence for that argument -- then the argument that he's a "shitty" lyrics kind of falls apart.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
unlike w/ gucci i think most of keef's lyrics don't really translate well to being written out, tho
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:56 (eleven years ago) link
the "that boy jewelry lookin bleary like who sold him that shit" reminds me of gucci's "freakin partners probly never bother with a second option" tho, weird syllable play
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:57 (eleven years ago) link
this thread has become amazing and a future ilx classic. has made my work day well worth it
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:58 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:57 PM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark
also this epic pimp c quote
835bosse 6 months ago"ALL YOU BITCH ASS NIGGAS OUT THERE BUYIN THAT O KING JOHNNY, WITH THEM CLOUDY ASS DIAMONDS, LOOK LIKE HURRICANE KATRINA JUST HIT!"- PIMP C
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:59 (eleven years ago) link
so "memorable" is the yardstick now
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:03 (eleven years ago) link
again, i didn't bring it up
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:04 (eleven years ago) link
jesus are we really going to go down that "what makes a lyric good" rabbit hole?
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
HOLY SHIT I ABSOLUTELY LOST IT AT: "Tuomas would body Keef in 8 bars and drop the mic onto the icy Finnish stage"
post of the year IMO.
― Blue Collar Retail Assistant (Dwight Yorke), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
because i'ma tell you right now, no two parties will ever agree on a definition
he has a cool voice and an original style. his voice sounds at once affectless and 'cool' (in that detached, unruffleable sense) & yet it PROJECTS. good rapper voice. his flow is original, w/ that weird off the beat swag that drives ship nuts, idk
the problem w/ this is the more people expect you to 'explain it' the more posts there are and then they can go LOOK YOU GUYS ARE OVERANALYZING HE JUST SAYS 'I CAN FUCK YOUR MAMA' AND YOU HAVE LIKE 50 POSTS LOL CASSIE FAN CLUB
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
its this inexcusable need to compare everything to Nas as if the Eazy E / Too Short / Pimp C yardstick was such a bad one
what's sh1p's username on here again?
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:10 (eleven years ago) link
this guy is no Too $hort gimme a fuckin break
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:12 (eleven years ago) link
xpost kl0pper
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:12 (eleven years ago) link
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:12 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes thats definitely the argument i was making
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:14 (eleven years ago) link
a 17 year old kid with one album and a couple mixtapes is too $hort
laughin at this slave's life
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
― D-40, Friday, December 14, 2012 5:02 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://24.media.tumblr.com/5175859feaea8be5bada311aa929ada5/tumblr_mf238adrzr1r03eaxo1_500.gif
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:34 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
Chief Keef why you say those nasty words
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
I'm just sayin if you want to go by the Eazy/Too $hort/Pimp C axis that's fine but he seems much more humorless/less comical to me and that makes it much less appealing
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
This need is a strawman you pull out when you want to defend bad lyricists. AFAIK/IIRC Eazy didn't write his own rhymes but who can deny that "Real Muthaphuckkin Gs" is a great lyric? Not everybody's gonna be cerebral comb-through-it-for-hidden-meanings style, tand I can't speak for anybody else but that's not my complaint, I don't care what somebody's writing about or whether they're aiming for deeper truths or whatever. one can write well on any topic, and in a multitude of styles, as many styles as there are writers.
if we're taking "memorable" to mean "people can remember it" instead of "worth remembering" then yes, these are memorable. so is that band fun. by that yardstick.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:19 (eleven years ago) link
well i think it's both and i like fun., so idk
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:22 (eleven years ago) link
j0rdan shutting down an argument by linking a search of a song title in twitter is some jason newsted "yes, we sell out ::claps hands:: every night, every seat in the house" shit
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
@ SD media-savvy waka is also post-quality music waka we all know this
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
I think fun. said something nice about me recently so I should stfu those guys are in a position to do a man a solid right now
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
too many encores, what makes a good lyricist?
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:26 (eleven years ago) link
http://i48.tinypic.com/cuooh.jpg
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:27 (eleven years ago) link
which one's the free space
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
after said video was posted to ilx for the first time:
haha waka kinda owns that video
― aim chtza (The Reverend), Friday, December 25, 2009 9:18 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
waka is so gifable!
― stupid fruity crazy jag (J0rdan S.), Friday, December 25, 2009 10:03 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:32 (eleven years ago) link
the middle one duh
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:32 (eleven years ago) link
this proved to be correct
http://smokenmirrorsblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/waka_relaxxxin.gif
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:39 (eleven years ago) link
think we're not really arguing so much about 'best rap lyric of the year' so much as 'best rap catchphrase of the year'
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:23 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark
sorry that i turned to an obvious place in order to show that many people find his lyrics memorable
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
wait that gif is from 2010? how can that be? deej told me waka's charisma is a sudden 2012 invention! (xpost)
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:41 (eleven years ago) link
if you want to prove the LYRICS are memorable why did you link a search for a SONG TITLE
because it's also the central lyric and if you scroll through the results it's as much people quoting the hook than saying "hey i really like that song 'hate being sober'"
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:44 (eleven years ago) link
eh when i scrolled through it like every 20th tweet was a quote
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
j0rdan thinks The Source's "hip hop quotable of the month" used to be like 'you can find me in da club/ bottle full of bub'
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
there's no single yardstick - certainly not in rap, which did more to stretch the parameters of how to write well within a genre than any single genre ever has imo - as many styles as there are good writers. that said, solid rhymes are nice, being comfortable with meter but able to move freely within in it is great (this is imo where corny dudes do indeed go crazy for Nas, whose old stuff really did scan like he meant for it to be printed and studied), unexpected similies/metaphors/comparisons that jump out but not too harshly are good. vivid imagery that points to a vision uniquely belonging to the lyricist, one that's identifiably in a voice so that if somebody else covered it you might still be able to say "that sounds like a Chief Keef lyric." (I don't think anyone will ever say that.)
I mean there's no end to what makes a good lyricist, it's an endless craft.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:51 (eleven years ago) link
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:49 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
i've spent more time than arguably anyone in the history of ilm transcribing lyrics to this message board, but that doesn't mean that all lyrics have to function the same way
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:52 (eleven years ago) link
so what's the line from a chief keef VERSE that people everywhere are quoting
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:53 (eleven years ago) link
J0rdan will you own that I am not claiming anywhere that all lyrics have to function in the same way because that is not my deal like at all and I take offense, sir, at the accusation as I perceive it
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:55 (eleven years ago) link
good thread. interesting to see the conservative view move/adjust/reject.
it's so I can see if you can actually cite any good lyrics by this guy you rep. you can't, because he is a shitty rapper and terrible lyricist.
you judge poets in the same way, aero? ask b/c I know you are a fan, just wonder if you hold them up to that same test.
― bnw, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 00:58 (eleven years ago) link
you're asking if avid poetry readers can cite passages by their favorite poets that they consider exemplary?
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
okay. i do think your parameters as they pertain to keef are very rigid.
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
underrated poets i have found exemplary
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
good rap lyrics are lyrics that sound good when the rapper who wrote it raps it. Gets bonus points if style is original.
― sisilafami, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
depends on the style of poetry - classic metrical poets for sure, if no phrases stick at all then wtf kind of poet is that? whatever you want to call poetry since the rise of unmetered verse/open forms/whatever, very different class of stuff, I can't quote many/any? lines from my favorite novels probably except Absalom, Absalom! but that doesn't mean it didn't leave a huge impression, it's just less about lines & phrases than the big effect. a lot of my trouble with open forms in poetry has to do with this though, long boring talk to be had by me there any old time so stop on by
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
well yeah i didn't think we were talking about MEMORIZING -- obviously that's much easier to do w/ music than printed verse
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
this is getting pretty silly. dude is making music - some people like it, some people think it is garbage, nobody has nice things to say about those making the opposite case.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:41 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i would say that ppl coming around on him being charismatic as a person are based more upon his irl antics than his personality in his music, which is pretty gruff & aggro
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
ILX rarely has nice things to say about people making the same case, why would you expect otherwise for the opposite
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
also it was originally JOYOUS and charismatic & there is seriously nothing JOYOUS about flockaveli imo
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
so j0rdan and rev's posts about being entertaining by waka's performance in a video in 2009 are what? an aberration?
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
yes because he at one time was being entertaining, that means that flockaveli is full of joyous charisma
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
there is seriously nothing joyous about YEAHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh IT'S A PARTY IT'S A PARTY IT'S A PARTY
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:10 (eleven years ago) link
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
the original thread WAKA and your own thread get drunk & listen to waka flocka flame sure do fail to capture the grim reality of that album huh
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
jesus christ dude i dont even fucking remember the original context where i'm disagreeing w/ joyous charisma but when you turn any nuanced discussion into a one-dimensional strawman argument that is impossible for you to lose it's super annoying
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:12 (eleven years ago) link
like, yes, OBVIOUSLY flockaveli has party songs, if i remember we were talking about flockaveli relative to 'finally rich' & i was arguing that there's no way you could argue the latter was any more 'grim' or 'joyless' than the former
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:13 (eleven years ago) link
this is getting pretty silly
how dare you
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Di5h_PpyJ0
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
the original context is THIS THREAD, i'm not diggin in the crates dog
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:15 (eleven years ago) link
this 1000+ multi-day thread?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:17 (eleven years ago) link
100+ post
argh 1000+ post, multi-day thread
i realize there's no easy to search uncommon words like "waka" that you could check for
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:18 (eleven years ago) link
me not doing that is to show how little i give a fuck about your pedant argument
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
"bingo" is such an awesome song btw
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
totally
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
one-dimensional strawman arguments, that's that ship I don't like
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:20 (eleven years ago) link
i wasn't always so one-dimensional, but then i got media savvy and realized it made for good gifs
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:25 (eleven years ago) link
a reference so deep it will probably become a board description
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:30 (eleven years ago) link
tbf your og flockaveli review harped on about how he was an "unrepentant street-rap hardhead" with a "grizzled bark" so at least you're consistently out of step with how virtually every other fan of that record hears it
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:32 (eleven years ago) link
fwiw one of those terms was changed in editing
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
the latter, to be specific
its a lil breihanic, no shots, for me
grizzly bark - wakatimest
― so far, so good... solange! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:55 (eleven years ago) link
not sure what was wrong abt the former statement, tho
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 02:08 (eleven years ago) link
noz currently going ham on twitter about this/bdot/etc.
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 02:14 (eleven years ago) link
noz is of course otm
does seem like something broke inside him recently tho... his tweets have been even more acidic than usual
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
can i just
(my sister had this album, the beats were good & the synths chilly, the rapping always sounded kinda...y'know..."the pyramids are oh so shiny" wtf are you talking about egyptian lover)
― J0hn D., Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:34 AM Bookmark
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
below that
yes, i am a party rockist, i prefer to go to a place where people are, you know, having fun to fun music
― deej, Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:34 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
d33j to blame for LMFAO
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 04:11 (eleven years ago) link
How is this not joyous and charismatic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OpjWLPDNRw
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 10:13 (eleven years ago) link
I mean... it's about as joyous and charismatic as it gets considering that Waka murders several people in the video.
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 10:17 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
just realized trinidad james is the second best rapper in 2012 w his memorable line 'popped a molly im sweatin woo!'
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
thats a dope song the prob is he only has one memorable line
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
pretty bored at work -- someone make deej defend something else to the death pls
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
can we do a type of food or sneaker this time
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
have you been having any chicago vs. new york pizza type arguments lately
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
new jordans with the zipup - go xp
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
kids in chicago are making that pizza blow up
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
Everytime you eat a pizza a child dies though.
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
comparing new york pizza to chicago pizza is like comparing apples and apple pie
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
which is to say that chicago pizza is obviously 1000x as delicious
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
i think deej is right in that chicago is consciously trying to do something different w its pizza
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
they take their pizza and pour butter mixed with brown sugar mixed with cinnamon over it, also cover it with a lattice made of lesser pizzas
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
chicago pizza is better than new york pizza and ny press has a new york pizza bias
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
chicago pizza is a masterfully dense pizza
three slices of pepperoni for every two bits of sausage on a chicago pizza
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:49 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know anyone who lives in chicago and eats chicago pizza, chicago pizza is a media construct
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
ham and pineapple, thats that deep dish i dont like
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
when they cut a chicago pizza the top half is cut into three slices but the bottom half is only cut into two
hemitoma
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
― mookieproof, Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:45 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:52 (eleven years ago) link
i've been eating pizza since 1984 -- are you really gonna stan for hemiola toppings?
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
gettin a medium w pepproni, sausage and hamiola
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
I've heard Atlanta pizza has a more joyous and exhuberant flavor though.
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
wtf is an atlanta pizza
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
here we go again
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
it's what you scrape off the hot pavement after throwing a goon who owes you money from a tower, of course
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
noz scaggs @nozdon't speak on criticism if you don't come from the culture of criticism.
noz scaggs @nozhow many elements of crit do you practice? can you quote oscar wilde while doing a windmill?
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
XD
Dave Bry @davebry9@noz Wilde Style.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
i'm going to listen to this.
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
drudgesiren.gif
genuinely interested in your take
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
pff quit bullshitting you already know exactly what he's going to say
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:46 (eleven years ago) link
same goes for every ilm post by everyone tbf
eh see if there's a predictability continuum about people's reactions to certain kinds of rap, with aero and djp on one end and deej and j0rd on the other, i'd say m@tt is probably the closest thing to the dead middle
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
and he also has a knack for framing things in a different context than the one that other people have already set in stone
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
I have only heard this through the other people's cranked-up earphones. Very tinny. No bass.
― REBEL YELL FOR HUGS (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
tbh i read this whole thread first, so it's kinda hard to hear it with fresh ears because i'm so conscious of both sides of the argument.
so far i'm on the four song, love sosa and i don't like still have impact, they are the singles for a reason it seems like.
the production is pretty good overall.
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
you know what doesn't have bass, i'm different
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
though i think i *get* what deej & j0rd here in this, it's kind of the evolution of hip hop's movement away from strict lyricism into the idea of flow being the predominant function of the MC on the track (like that's ultimately what the rise of the south did to me)....
like keef is almost an anti-lyricist, like everything is stripped down to these weird verbal & rhythmic tics, like that "no tomorrow" track i just got done with was particularly fucked up from a flow perspective....
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
the beat for "kay kay" reminds me of that washed out chillwave group
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
haha the autotune on this is like the teen mom album
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
one fun thing about this record is trying to figure out when he's saying "fart" on purpose or just pronouncing some other word in a way that sounds like "fart"
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
man kay kay...oof...kind of a 50 tyson vibe on this
hahaha laughin' to the bank's hook....wow...i can't believe this is real
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:06 (eleven years ago) link
in a way, he's almost a throwback to like reaaaaaally old school stuff, or old miami bass stuff where the dude on the mic isn't exactly a rapper more just cycling through phrases to get the crowd hyped, like an old mobile dj unit thing or something
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think "flow" is the right word for chief keef's predominant function on tracks
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
Well, you don't get much higher praise than a 50 Tyson comparison.
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
he is not saying 'fart' what is wrong with u people
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 12:04 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
huh??
tbf it really does sound at times like he's saying "fart" and since rappers go around comparing the smell of weed to armpits and cat piss i didn't really think it was out of the question for keef to say that about farts
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
bitch i'm fartin on em
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
he's way more on beat on "diamonds"
the beats have been overall pretty good except for laughin' to the bank, but in a way i almost support laughin' to the bank because it's funny that something so fucked up wasn't like on wordsound records
deej, it's just the way he says certain words sounds like he's saying fart. to me.
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
toot it and boot it
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
i have never heard 'fart' it sounds like a willful mishearing esp when donald glover is doing it for 'yucks' in that Vice video
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
maybe some people aren't super familiar with the wonderful "fuck boy"/"fuck n---a" variety of rap insults
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:13 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
on "kay kay" i def hear "fart" a few times
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
ballin' chorus is v catchy
deej honestly that's just what i heard ok, if you don't that's fine, but there's times it sounds like he's saying "fart" and there's really no other way i can explain that to you if you don't hear it.
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
"kay kay" being named after his kid definitely helps with the farrah abraham vibe
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
as far as donald glover, which lmao at the idea that i even know about donald glover fucking vice videos, but literally the very first time i heard "i don't like" i hear "fart nigga'...
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
this kinda baffles me slightly b/c it makes everything sound like gay porn
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
the 50 tyson thing is like the ppl who think we're just into dude b/c he's 'ignorant' it literally makes no sense to me that ppl can listen to these lyrics and think they're any more 'ignorant' than any street rapper ever
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
or i guess bounce, which still functions like this.
― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
woah jeezy's verse really points out how off-beat keef, or hemiola'd out, keef is....now it almost sounds jarring to hear jeezy rhyme strictly on beat, i've gotten kinda hypnotized into the way keef flows all over
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
yeah jordan, bounce dudes too that's what i was getting at.
deej i just meant 50 tyson in that sometimes it sounds like a fuckin mess
but not always
and sometimes it's a good mess i guess?
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
pretty much all street rap = 'ignorant' to a lot of people though, right?
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
NOT FREDDIE GIBBS
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
CAN WHITE CRITICS LIKE FREDDIE GIBBS? NO ONE CARES! A THINKPIECE
ee-e-e-e-e-eeeeeeeeeeee ascending sound? is that young chop? man it's all over the place
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
i never actually heard 50 Tyson before just now, had only seen pictures of him etc. -- this guy is definitely operating on roughly the same skill level as Chief Keef
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
I have been holding back on the 50 Tyson comparisons itt so I'm glad someone else brought it up
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know what's wrong with just saying the dude made a moderately enjoyable, well produced album of negligible lyrical merit. i put it on par with the Travis Porter joint.
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
but literally the very first time i heard "i don't like" i hear "fart nigga'...
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:18 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
okay this is a bit much
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
― lex pretend, Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:18 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
always a fine line between homophobia and homoeroticism in rap, cf DMX
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
50 tyson comparisons are absurd, stop
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
Anti-lyrical sounds correct.
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
alright i'll retract the 50 tyson thing if that means we can stop the clusterfuck
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
you didn't start the fire, homie
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
get the fuck out with the 50 tyson shit
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
al should be embarrassed
i'm not saying the hemiola thing is real or not, don't know enough to say
but i think deej is right that there's some kind of method to the madness, rhythmically, which i think is illustrated by the difference between the tracks where the way in which keef is offbeat works and the one in which it doesn't, like this finally rich song really fucking sucks
but then on hate being sober, love sosa, 3hunna, etc it kinda vibes in a weird/cool way
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
"cigo" - again reminds me of chillwave type stuff, at least the intro
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
Travis Porter joint is good!
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
that jeezy verse is terrible imo
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
like... "damn, can jeezy still rap?" terrible
lyrically i like the jeezy verse but it definitely sounds stiff & old mannish by comparison
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
And citgo is very chillwave, yes.
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
this citgo song is bizarre
yeah the jeezy verse wasn't good really, but it was just sort of interesting as a point of comparison, like maybe these beats aren't made to be rapped on beat?
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
VSTs becoming mainstream has really changed hip hop
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:34 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i know! i don't know how i went years without actually hearing his music
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
been busy all morning but this is really a must for the new ilm board description
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
The 5 Tyson comparison is ridiculous (albeit amusing) but this definitely isn't the first I'm hearing of the "fart" thing.
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
haha got them bands is ridiculous
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:51 (eleven years ago) link
hmmm
i kind of don't know what to think, it's really something!
i def agree w/aero & the haters that he's not a great rapper per se, but on the better songs he definitely functions are part of the track in a unique and very catchy way. it's distinctive for sure.
the biggest worry i would have if i were from the deej/j0rd camp is that, with a couple of exceptions, the best songs on this are the big songs that were around before the album comes out....
overall, it's kind of an exhausting listen and i'm not sure i will listen to it again.
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
aero & the haters are playing at the vfw next week btw, please come out and support the scene
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:02 (eleven years ago) link
more than half the album was out before the album.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
aero & the haters vfw jackoff jam sesh
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
the biggest problem i see is that where does he go from here? he either gets more conventional and "better", which would probably lose what makes him distinctive, or stays in the same stylistic rut, which, judging by this album, he may have already released the best, most iconic keef qua keef tracks before the album even came out.
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
would love to hear Joe Perry do one of these
― regarding an eccentric and non-existent American Gladiator (crüt), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
I mean one of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAMdXIASuo8
This. I prefer small doses of Keef, the entire record just wears me out so much.
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
aero & the haters' "misunderstood demon (bel canto aria)" b/w "fun. loves my shit" is a nu-hardcore classic imo
― da croupier, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
thx matt
― keef qua keef (Jordan), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 2:05 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
p a good idea since he smell like farts e'ryday iirc
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 2:03 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah this is why j0rdan's super confident "he's gonna be around for a bit" proclamations make me curious what people believe his best case scenario is
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
keef qua keef
<3
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
a queef n---a, that's the shit i don't like
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
say "keef qua keef" five times fast
― da croupier, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
I'm gonna incorporate "keef qua keef" into my vocal warmups
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
diction is done with the keef qua keef qua kee-eeeef
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
― President Keyes, Wednesday, January 2, 2013 10:17 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i thought this was kinda otm, not even so much the beefheart thing but ultimately a lot of the great hardcore bands really only released a small handful of great/vital/amazing songs and then were fairly used up but that's cool, like how many MDC songs do you need? but there are parallels, in that keef seems to be rooted in this really grassroots, insular local thing (and obv the violence has some parallels to hardcore too)...but it almost feels like i don't like/sober/sosa/etc are like the faith/void split kinda thing and how much more keef will i ever need?
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
it almost feels like i don't like/sober/sosa/etc are like the faith/void split kinda thing
whether I agree with the point or not you deserve an award for this
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:09 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
there are more than a few tracks on this that could be singles imo. considering everyone keeps saying he has '15 mins' meanwhile his buzz lasted all year & resulted in 50k in first week album sales with zero songs in rotation, a song shooting up the hot 100, i can see why people think he's probably got more staying power than critics keep suggesting
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
i guess i wasn't talking about commercial success or buzz, more just as an artist in the long term
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno i think so far he's shown a gift for hooks & an addictive rap style, we'll see how long it takes for him to burn out like anyone else
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
looks like he might get sent to jail tho
oh man, let's just hope he doesn't jump straight to the No Mercy/Trouble Man part of his career
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
gucci got a few chances
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:29 (eleven years ago) link
yeah he got to release a mixtape with "back" in the title three years after his last major label LP and everything
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
serious question; has anyone taken Gucci seriously since he tattooed an ice cream cone on his face?
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
thats like the 9th time he went to jail though
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 2:34 PM (16 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ppl ive talked to believe that he did that to help w/ his mental health plea in court
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:34 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark
yeah he had a pretty normal year. i mean his music isn't nearly as good as it was but he put out 3 mixtapes this year and everyone treated him as if he was just another rapper.
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
if anything people are more respectful of him now than they were when he was making his best music (per usual...)
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
true
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
can't wait til we reach that point with Keef
― Number None, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
@ChiefKeefChief Keef and Will Smith what would the movie be about ? Retweet that Gbe
― ThePartyHater (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 22:05 (eleven years ago) link
that is, im guessing, a tweet from one of his mgrs
Gucci made a lot of good music this year. Trap Back is top ten, maybe five to me.
― future kendricks (longneck), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
tweet is pretty hilarious no matter who wrote it. maybe more if it wasn't him.
― Chief Cypher Raige (some dude), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 22:10 (eleven years ago) link
Will Smith's career skyrockets after the mother of Janet Hubert accuses him of having her killed.
― REBEL YELL FOR HUGS (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
― Chief Cypher Raige (some dude), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:10 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
completely agree, esp with final clause
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
glad u two finally agreed on something!!
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
http://images.mmosite.com/news/2008/02/10/ewok-hdr001.jpg
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 22:21 (eleven years ago) link
citgo is dope, this is like the animal collective of rap, I approve
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 00:57 (eleven years ago) link
ultimate corny indie fuxx keef track obv
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:26 (eleven years ago) link
yah I put it right behind i dont like, 3hunna and love sosa
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:31 (eleven years ago) link
late on the fart combo but in Future's "Straight Up" I have always heard "big booty freak and she fart, straight up" and I have no idea what its even supposed to be
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:19 (eleven years ago) link
I do not hear "fart" in any of these songs and I don't know what y'all are on.
― chief keef olbermann (The Reverend), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:22 (eleven years ago) link
haha whiney most lyric sites say "foreign" but some of them actually say "fart"
― some dude, Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:23 (eleven years ago) link
you have to really strain to hear "fart" in that future song... same for "open condom style" (which also doesn't even make sense)
"fart" is pretty apparent in "kay kay" tho
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:27 (eleven years ago) link
yes because people only mishear lyrics when they make sense
― some dude, Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:30 (eleven years ago) link
you have to really strain to hear "fart"
be careful not to shit yourself
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:12 (eleven years ago) link
hearing "fart" in 2013 is just ILX's answer to deej's rocking chair
― NINO CARTER, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:47 (eleven years ago) link
its weird if the chicago thread people were talking out loud every time you hear them say 'fuck' it sounds like 'fart'
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:50 (eleven years ago) link
just lookin for a fartbuddy on the side
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:51 (eleven years ago) link
"fart" and "fuck" not an either/or proposition iirc
― NINO CARTER, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:54 (eleven years ago) link
find a fart and fuck it
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:55 (eleven years ago) link
^^ Efil4zaggin b-side
― NINO CARTER, Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:19 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
future - pluto poll
― queef ka queef (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:17 (eleven years ago) link
Keep trying to hear what Keef says at 2:41 on "Don't Like" as "fuck" instead of "fart" and I'm still not convinced.
― President Keyes, Thursday, 10 January 2013 12:24 (eleven years ago) link
I don't really listen to lil b but 'citgo' sounds to me like the way people talk about lil' B
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 13:26 (eleven years ago) link
i think the phenomenon is really pronounced on this part of the remix
http://bit.ly/10hQQSu
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
lol - did you make that all by yourself?
― future kendricks (longneck), Thursday, 10 January 2013 14:34 (eleven years ago) link
I seriously can't believe ppl are saying that it doesn't sound like fart
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
Is he saying he smells like fuck too or is that fart part of the official canon
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
apparently he's saying "I smell like foreigns"
frankly "I smell like farts" is a better line
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
I do hear big booty freak and she fart but i never heard keef farting like that
― future kendricks (longneck), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
yeah farting is one of the many things future does better than keef
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
this 'fart' shit is beneath you guys
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
says D-farty
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
that's usually where it is, yes (xp)
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pofupYwEF2Q
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
lol @ "this is beneath you guys"
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
DJP you are selling that post short. the full post is "this 'fart' shit is beneath you guys" and it demands respect, it's like a haiku of awesome
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:51 (eleven years ago) link
"D-farty" was also pretty fantastic
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
are there butthurt Hendrix fans out there who demand that people show proper respect whenever someone says "'scuze me while I kiss this guy"?
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5fyADVCIAEqxJS.gif
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
no, but is the joke were "'scuze me while I fart," yes
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
Jesus Christ Whiney
that was hilarious and horrifying
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
I'm sure everyone in my office of low cubicles enjoyed seeing it
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:41 AM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
also need to point out that this was said by a dude who a few days ago was making shart puns on twitter and thirsty for retweets
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
guys I generally don't give a shit about whether somebody meant to be funny or not but I don't see how "this 'fart' shit is beneath you guys" isn't/wasn't exactly the joke it reads like
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
it's hard to tell sometimes :\
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:08 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that was the shart he does like, this is the shart he don't like
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
everyone should chill out and listen to some mature music:
http://mydickband.bandcamp.com/
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
Oh one more thing I forgot I wanted to mention on the album is that all the guests pretty much suck and really clash with the album and vibe, with the exception of 50 who did a good job of coming up with a unique flow that fit w/o just aping keef like french montana, who btw is that guy just a no talent basically?
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:08 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
'thirsty for retweets'? or just making fart jokes w/ a friend from ilx?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's Montana just being Montana. I think the guests are OK, but Ross comes off a little too stiff and paperweighty to me. Wiz is a complete blank, though.
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
french montana, who btw is that guy just a no talent basically?
he has the talent to come up with a name I will completely boost for myself next time I do drag
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
no way French Montana is more "the new sandwich at Hardee's" than "drag queen"
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
there's a thread idea
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
it's like Razzles - first it's a sandwich, then it's my drag name
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
Arby's already has the 'big Montana'. French Montana just comes with au jus iirc
― Binder, Binder & (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
Do you guys remember Rax: Fast Food With Style? Or was that just in Minnesota?
It was basically like a combination of a shitty version of Arby's & an all you can eat taco bar, but I think they had hamburgers too
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
omfg we had Rax here. Went all the time as a kid. Your description is accurate p much.
I have bad memories of the place cuz one day I opened my kid's meal box and there was no cookie inside so my mom nudged me on and i went up to the counter all by myself to tell the lady i didn't get a cookie and she looked back at me with emotionless eyes and said 'you don't get a cookie with that' and my eyes welled up w/ tears and at that moment i became a man
― NINO CARTER, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
Rax: Fast Food Without Mercy
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
http://images.hitfix.com/photos/573334/ti-no-mercy_article_story_main.jpg
― NINO CARTER, Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
wow yeah rax roast beef. we had those in st. louis for like five minutes.
― dmr, Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
is there a thread for fast food chains that were knockoffs of more successful brands?
― NINO CARTER, Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
Kids meal at rax had alligator juice box
― Binder, Binder & (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
i actually like ross on 3hunna
― tpp, Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
rax on rax on rax
― chief keef olbermann (The Reverend), Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
all the guests sound old & stiff, def
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
chief keef is like the world's worst mascot of youthful vitality though
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
rolling old and stiff rap 2013
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:54 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://media.tumblr.com/44d3c4ba24b54fbf49903ab1f684a8bb/tumblr_inline_mfk42cCUVJ1qbk1va.gif
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
world's most menacing Jerry shirt
― gullible lochinski (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 10 January 2013 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
I think it says a ton about the perspectives of everyone involved in this argument that deej thought that GIF was a rebuttal of some dude's statement and I think it's an affirmation
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
*farts*
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
i just agree that the guests aren't great
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
i will say to keef's credit that it took french montana like 10 years more in the game to get to the same career and skill level
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
haha I was listening to the who booty remix earlier today and was like, damn
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
"Love Sosa" has dropped from its peak of #31 on the hip-hop/R&B airplay chart two weeks in a row now, think it may have lost its momentum
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
also dropped on hot 100 and digital charts
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
u jackin?
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
i'm fartin
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
its interesting that 'popped a molly' is still climbing
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
i expected that to stall out tbh
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
yeah chief trinidad has legs, unfortunately
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
i can't remember the last time i heard a big single like that and was 100% utterly convinced that the artist was never going to put out anything even remotely as good
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
it has the advantage of less lag between the video blowing up & the song being pushed to radio, probably
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
nah that song is enormous, it's not surprising
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
Skipping 1118 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.
― What am I, in France? (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:22 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Trinidad James? I'm pretty certain he is gonna have at least one other pretty huge hit before he disappears.
― future kendricks (longneck), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not sure what that has to do w/ whether or not the song is good
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:31 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like if it does happen it'll be because he gets one of those Drake-and-five-other-dudes-with-plaques posse cuts (xp)
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:31 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You don't think he can make an equally good song if he gets an equally good beat? Because that's the only "big" beat on his tape which he made when he was practically unknown and I get the feeling that a lot of good producers are giving him beats these days.
― future kendricks (longneck), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
Which is not to say that I like him. But people seem to do.
You don't think he can make an equally good song if he gets an equally good beat?
no
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
drop a molly i'm fartin
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
a lot of rappers, when they first get signed or catch a buzz, it feels very clear to me roughly how their trajectory is gonna play out -- i have a hard time discerning whether Trinidad James is gonna be on a Ca$h Out type route or a 2 Chainz route though
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
uhhh definitely a ca$h out route
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
rapper ca$h out with his hit song ca$hin out from his album ca$hin out
yeah you're prob right. i hope you are, anyway. xp
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think his situation is analogous to 2 chainz at all
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
if it's true that def jam gave him a multi-million dollar deal then they'll make sure he doesn't turn into another ca$h out... honestly if you think it is true -- i feel like if it does happen it'll be because he gets one of those Drake-and-five-other-dudes-with-plaques posse cuts -- (and i would agree) than the entire thing seems pretty right on the asap rocky track
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
if you think THIS is true*
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
is there somebody other than jeezy who we can blame for rappers rhyming the same word with the same word
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
speaking of 2 chainz am i the only one that hears his verse on "mercy" as
Ok, now ketchup to my fart pain, fart the color of mayonnaiseI'm fart and fart at the same time, drinkin' fart wine on the fartplane Spit fart like the fart fart, beat it up like FARRRRT100 fart, fart your fart, now your fart need fart aidGrade A, A1, chain the color of diarrheaFart diamonds, fart rhyming, [*unintelligable farting noises until chorus*]
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
rick ross xp
stop it, christopher
(and yes that was said in my best adriana la cerva voice)
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
haha speaking of bad ross verses it just struck me the other day just how bad girl we the hottest, rockin the most ice, I said we the hottest is
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
2 fartstainz
― ♨ (am0n), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
why is everyone arguing about this when they could be reading about the paul schrader lindsey lohan brett easton ellis porn vehicle
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
i'm jackin
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that thing is pretty incredible xp
― captain keefaroo (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
that story was amazing
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
why is everyone farting about this when they could be farting about the paul farter lindsey farthan brett easton ellis fart vehicle http://www.zgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/gotta-fart-bigtime1.jpg
― rap steve gadd (D-farty), FARTday, FARTuary 10, 2013 2:46 PM (1 fart ago) Fartmark Fart Post Poop In Your Pants
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
irl lols
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
i always thought Foxy Brown was saying "I got you fartin' in Armani sweaters" on "Ain't no N*gga"
― NINO CARTER, Thursday, 10 January 2013 23:26 (eleven years ago) link
wow have you been mishearing Fartsy Brown's name all these years? how embarrassing
― trey songza (some dude), Thursday, 10 January 2013 23:27 (eleven years ago) link
i'd just like to note that though i don't hate on fart jokes, seeing two of ilx's greatest jokesmen slipping to the levels of bo jackson overdrive's 8th new incarnation is bringing a tear to my eye
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 10 January 2013 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
they are adjusting their level of discourse to what this album deserves
― 乒乓, Thursday, 10 January 2013 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
bo jokesman ovedrive
― the drawl of the mc's could be farts (NickB), Thursday, 10 January 2013 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
r
fwiw i was pointedly not joining in on the fart jam session the majority of the time, but i couldn't resist posting Fartsy Brown
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 00:03 (eleven years ago) link
yeah some dude wasn't really participating in the fart jam sesh, he was just smoking that gas like citgo
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 00:04 (eleven years ago) link
fart
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 00:12 (eleven years ago) link
i'd excelsior that post but i'm not sure if that thread can handle yet another side-splitting does of chief keef humor
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 00:18 (eleven years ago) link
yo anybody who hates on whiney's fart bars is my enemy forever, those were golden
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 11 January 2013 00:22 (eleven years ago) link
Otm
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
Course we could also take it back to the pedantry of whut makes good rap leerix
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
this album is great.
― sisilafami, Friday, 11 January 2013 00:44 (eleven years ago) link
i just realized this today
lol nice try, you otm'd a PEDANT, it will never wash off you pedant sympathizer, closet pedant, next thing you know you'll be making assertions that are accurate and standing by them
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 11 January 2013 01:04 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i haven't said anything, but i'm not really down with ilm being completely dominated by fart and dick jokes in the past couple days. they're a spice best used with restraint.
― The Reverend, Friday, 11 January 2013 02:26 (eleven years ago) link
I wish that My Dick band would have done a version of "love sosa" and we could just call it a day
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 02:43 (eleven years ago) link
i heard that band did a Death Grips cover
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
what a fartdick album by a dickfart rapper
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
― sisilafami, Friday, January 11, 2013 12:44 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It is, isn't it!
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 08:54 (eleven years ago) link
http://rapradar.com/2013/01/10/12-worst-albums-1-chief-keef-finally-rich/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
Ten Macaroni Necklaces says:Thursday, January 10 2013 at 6:34 PM EST“Blah blah blah blah… ToasterBlah blah blah blah…. SodaBlah blah blah blah… Toyota corollaBlah blah blah blah… OprahBANG BANG”- Chief Keef
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
amazing and hilarious comments
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
Jonathan says:Thursday, January 10 2013 at 6:58 PM ESTB. Dot has an opinion, and I respect that.
I sometimes think that all this hate towards Chief Keef, reminds me of the hate people on here gave to Waka Flocka Flame when he was getting noticed.
Chief Keef’s “Finally Rich” is just like Waka Flocka’s “Flockaveli” to me. Only difference is the sound of the music.
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
THAT COMPARISON DOESNT WASH PIGPEN
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
"Only difference is the sound of the music" just cracked me up
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
its not a bad point, though
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
― sisilafami, Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:44 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah
― flopson, Friday, 11 January 2013 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
deej didn't you spend like 80 posts strenuously insisting that there are many differences, and not merely in the sound of the music, between Flockaveli and Finally Rich?
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s0hEi8zhmg
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
lol dayo, I had successfully resisted the impulse to reference that for so long
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
you are a better person than I
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
i never understood the controversy over vanilla ice sampling a song just like every single other rap song of the entire decade, i mean i get that he did credit queen or whatever but that was hardly uncommon either
vanilla opening for PE though, haha what a show!
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
"that little bitty change, it's not the same!" is one of my favorite phrases of all time, really don't use it enough
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 18:56 (eleven years ago) link
I think it was that A. it came at a time where sampling was still gaining acceptance and B. lol he tried to say the beat wasn't the same cuz of a 'ding' at the end
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
bingo
also some dude OTM, that is still hilarious
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
Have we reached the point of the thread where we can start posting random Vanilla Ice videos?
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, January 11, 2013 12:45 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the cultural space a record takes up isn't the same as the sound of it ... thats' the point of both the comment & my own take on this
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
s.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/popcast-chief-keef-and-cultural-tourism/
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/popcast-chief-keef-and-cultural-tourism/?smid=tw-nytimesarts&seid=auto
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but Waka says bow and Keef...don't
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
also keef has a pink backpack and waka is a clinically depressed rageaholic
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
lol you are the most disingenuous arguer ever
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
i was just playing along with nino, why's all the heat on me jeez
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
the cultural space a record takes up
archideej's principle
― mookieproof, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
love caramanica on this. "there was a period time when there were 4 big rap blogs that were all named for cam'ron lyrics."
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
ahahaha
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
def lolled at that too
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:31 (eleven years ago) link
surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
Wait so let me get this straight; dude has an Instagram account for pictures of his daughter, ergo that makes him the most publicly-devoted father in all of hip-hop?
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md6qqepRIf1qal6mc.gif
― markers, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
Cheif
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
is that chris ott?
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
yep
― markers, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
man he looks terrible
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
cheif keef is a good googleproof tho
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
my analogy about pipsqueak dayo from the other day is now me while listening to this podcast
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
it's almost as if there's a missing link here
RELATED
Jon Caramanica on Chief Keef
Brian Miller on Chief Keef
Rembert Browne in Grantland.com on how we talk about race in 2013
Dave Bry on race and music criticism at tnr.com
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
omg @ ott.gif
― al gould everything (crüt), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
well they do mention you and your review by name and mention they couldn't afford to fly you out for it
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:54 (eleven years ago) link
I feel like the entire first half of this conversation is being held between two aliens
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
lol i'm still only at the point where i'm referred to as "the critic"
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
screen name
― mookieproof, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/ddsTo.jpg
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
lol thats bdot tho
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
"It stinks."
omg b.dot is killing this, the conversation about "Citgo" is hilarious
"If I say Pig Latin on the record, on that same beat, does that make it hot?"
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
"But if you are in your mid-20s-""I am in my mid-20s."
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:08 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:07 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
maybe!
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 20:09 (eleven years ago) link
"content director of rap radar" is the most hilarious shit i've ever heard
ask missy elliott
#fremmeneppevenette
― lex pretend, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
the idea that bdot is 'killing this' is hilarious
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
his entire argument is based on the idea that jordan was making out some hidden meaning to keef's lyrics which jordan never actually argues
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
i think jon makes a good argument although i'd make the argument that lyrically of COURSE keef's stuff is extremely literal in meaning, thats what makes it good lyrically. it's not trying to be 'deep' its just about what its about
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
http://karmajello.com/postcont/2012/09/you-want-it-one-way-marlo-the-wire.jpg
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
of course you think Jon is making a good argument, you like the album and have been bending over backwards to describe Keef as a formidable talent
B.Dot is arguing that, unlike practically every other person in hip-hop who has been celebrated as a formidable talent in the history of the genre, Keef's songs are illiterate bullshit, and claiming otherwise shows a disconnect in the values of what makes hip-hop great.
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
smh
― flopson, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
or maybe acting as if those values are the only values by which hip hop can be measured a great are outdated
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
keef is not at all outside those values, though. we've been over this w/ how rappers rap before. people argued about it with too short
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
and those people look stupid
i think its wrong to argue, btw, that the lyrics 'dont matter' to keef's appeal b/c i think people like him for his direct & to the point lyrics
i think bdot doesnt bother to listen to the words keef is actually saying
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
i love how j0rdan has a handle on this and then deej comes in like the people in that mr show sketch about the armless drummer
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
what the fuck are you talking about
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Friday, January 11, 2013 3:09 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
what if you farted on it instead?
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
B.Dot is arguing that, unlike practically every other person in hip-hop who has been celebrated as a formidable talent in the history of the genre, Keef's songs are illiterate bullshit, and claiming otherwise shows a disconnect in the values of what makes hip-hop great.― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkor maybe acting as if those values are the only values by which hip hop can be measured a great are outdated― J0rdan S., Friday, January 11, 2013 3:24 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― J0rdan S., Friday, January 11, 2013 3:24 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes. thank you.
keef is not at all outside those values, though.― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:25 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:25 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AckxOWz868k/0.jpg
YOU'RE NOT HELPING!
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
its just that the 'pro-' argument that says 'sometimes keef is terrible at rapping' is 1) setting up standards for rapping that i don't think keef is even trying to meet, and 2) is too reminiscent of those stupid articles that fetishized the 'croak' of wayne's voice and said stuff like 'it doesn't even matter what he's saying'
what keef is saying is important to why keef's music is interesting
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:29 (eleven years ago) link
i'm saying a defense of his music needs to look at the entirety of its effect instead of like 'oh he chose that one cloud-rap beat and that was cool' is a good reason for saying he's a great artist
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
A fuck nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nahA snitch nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nahA bitch nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nahSneak dissers that's that shit I don't likeDon't like, like, don't like, likeA snitch nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nahDon't like, like, don't like, likeA bitch nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nah[Verse 1: Chief Keef]A popped bitch, that's that shit I don't likeI got a bad bitch, yeah that bitch rightWe smoke dope all day, all nightYou smoke Reggie, that's that shit I don't likeWe got a fucking Audi, that bitch all whitePull up on your bitch, bet she gonna likeSosa bitch, yeah, I done gon' hypePistol toting and I'm shooting on sightA snitch nigga, that's that shit I don't likeYour bitch want do the team bet she won't fightBitch, we GBE -- fuck who don't likeAnd we ain't gon' fight, our guns gon' fight[Hook][Verse 2: Chief Keef]Fake Trues that's that shit I don't likeFake shoes, that's that shit I don't likeFake niggas, that's that shit I don't likeStalking ass bitch, shit I don't likeI done got indicted selling all whiteBut I won't never snitch none in my lifeI keep this shit 3hunna bitch, I'm going rightWhere my niggas when it's time to start taking lifesPlaying both sides, shit that I don't likeWartime spark broad day, all nightPlaying both sides, shit that I don't likeWartime spark broad day, all night[Hook][Verse 3: Lil Reese]I'm telling these niggas shit that they don't likeBroski got the 30, he ain't tryina fightGot your bitch out here in it all nightFredo in the cut, that's a scary sightYou not with the six you can die tonightI only want the top, I ain't tryna pipeThem younguns with the shits they be toting pipeFloating off at flat, I might take flight3hunna bitch we hot, we done took flightTaking shit down, we ain't like the priceThirsty ass bitches shit that we don't likeOTFGBE yo bitch like
A snitch nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nahA bitch nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nahSneak dissers that's that shit I don't likeDon't like, like, don't like, likeA snitch nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nahDon't like, like, don't like, likeA bitch nigga, that's that shit I don't like, nah
[Verse 1: Chief Keef]A popped bitch, that's that shit I don't likeI got a bad bitch, yeah that bitch rightWe smoke dope all day, all nightYou smoke Reggie, that's that shit I don't likeWe got a fucking Audi, that bitch all whitePull up on your bitch, bet she gonna likeSosa bitch, yeah, I done gon' hypePistol toting and I'm shooting on sightA snitch nigga, that's that shit I don't likeYour bitch want do the team bet she won't fightBitch, we GBE -- fuck who don't likeAnd we ain't gon' fight, our guns gon' fight
[Hook]
[Verse 2: Chief Keef]Fake Trues that's that shit I don't likeFake shoes, that's that shit I don't likeFake niggas, that's that shit I don't likeStalking ass bitch, shit I don't likeI done got indicted selling all whiteBut I won't never snitch none in my lifeI keep this shit 3hunna bitch, I'm going rightWhere my niggas when it's time to start taking lifesPlaying both sides, shit that I don't likeWartime spark broad day, all nightPlaying both sides, shit that I don't likeWartime spark broad day, all night
[Verse 3: Lil Reese]I'm telling these niggas shit that they don't likeBroski got the 30, he ain't tryina fightGot your bitch out here in it all nightFredo in the cut, that's a scary sightYou not with the six you can die tonightI only want the top, I ain't tryna pipeThem younguns with the shits they be toting pipeFloating off at flat, I might take flight3hunna bitch we hot, we done took flightTaking shit down, we ain't like the priceThirsty ass bitches shit that we don't likeOTFGBE yo bitch like
hmm yes, very interesting
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
you dont think the meaning of those words in the context of music feeds into what makes the song work?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
those are good lyrics
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
xpost LOOOOOL
that he could just be singing nonsense words and we'd still like it because young chop is great?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
pretty much any comparison to a classic "simple" or "not lyrical" rapper does Keef about as many favors as if you compare him to Nas.
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
I would think some thought went into this if this was all done over a loop of "Waiting on the Robert E Lee"
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not comparing him to too short i'm comparing the arguments around him to those around too short
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
tbf why single out chief keef when french montana is also out there on the radio
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
what if you like some ignorant-ass rap but prefer it when the rapper doesn't sound like he's reading an eye chart in the optometrist's office?
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
or trinidad james
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
Those lyrics are classic....
― tpp, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
anyway allow me to again register my admiration at this thread having 700+ new answers when the basic point of disagreement is ship thinking this is a 6.0 record and deej/j0rd thinking this is an 8.5 record
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, January 11, 2013 2:35 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
then that's personal taste
i mean iirc 'reading an eye chart' describes how DJP hears Ma$e too
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
and farts
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:35 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah to borrow a phrase from rev, if there's not srs lyrics there should at least be srs charismatic delivery
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
i mean Nelly didn't really have bars but that guy was a fuckin vocalist
― 乒乓, Friday, January 11, 2013 2:36 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/19662_530303565673_3139433_n.jpg
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, January 11, 2013 2:37 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you don't think his vocals are charismatic, DJP thinks Ma$e is awful, at this point we're just hearing the sounds differently. the reason i like keef is b/c i think he IS a charismatic vocalist
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
alright cool, case closed, lock thread
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
if you're gonna put words into someone's mouth, at least have a modicum of a clue as to what their position is
"slow kid mumbling through a mouth full of cream of wheat" is how I hear Ma$e, which I still find preferable to what Chief Keef is doing
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
"B.Dot is arguing that, unlike practically every other person in rock who has been celebrated as a formidable talent in the history of the genre, the Ramones' songs are illiterate bullshit, and claiming otherwise shows a disconnect in the values of what makes rock music great."
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Friday, January 11, 2013 3:38 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
it should be noted that no one is forcing you to open this thread to make fart jokes
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
thank christ he is thought
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
I'm drawn like methane to the flame xp
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
wow French Montana is irritating
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
man you come up with the perfect rolling 2013 rap thread title 2 weeks late, thanks a lot man
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
rolling eye chart thread
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
anyway I do think keef is p charismatic on a track, but it seems to me maybe the better comparison is like early jeezy, who couldn't really rap his way out of a paper box on TM101 but who everybody loved anyway cause he sounded so good
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
also chief keef haters probably just think that on his songs keef sounds really flat... ulent
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
okay Trinidad James is a prank, right
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
don't think that's fair, jeezy wasn't GOAT status or anything but he was miles past keef skillswise (and I really like the keef record)
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
Jeezy in '05 was a MUCH bigger, more immediate voice. i think you gotta be really inside the Keef bubble to think that he does anything with appeal as undeniable as those early Jeezy ad libs.
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
not that that's what you're doing, just saying
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:52 (eleven years ago) link
oy, the energy behind jeezy was much bigger than it was for keef, but i don't think there's some unquestionable 'skill superiority' between the two of them or something. jeezy was never *about* skill
as narrators, it makes sense to compare them. Jeezy was, like Keef, more of a literalist lyrically
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
haha really? TM101 is nearly unlistenable for me, but somehow I don't mind keef
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
I suppose another benefit of this thread is introducing trinidad james to DJP
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
like, okay, chief keef is a sheer literalist, what is trinidad james... ?
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
should i listen to trinidad james or?
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
you should hear his one big song, its cool
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
i feel the same way about trinidad that i do about 2chainz, where there's something that makes me think they both think they're 'above' the music they make, which leaves a bad taste.
lyrics to "Thug Motivation 101":
[Verse 1]I use to hit the kitchen lights, cockroaches everywhereHit the kitchen lights: now it's marble floors, everywhere!Call the carpenter, the roof on the coupe's goneGive a fuck what he sold - I'm the truth, homesKitchen's fumed up, niggas jamming 2pacGet my Benihanas on, working 2 potsBaby need shoes, partner need bail moneyBloodhound for the bread, I just smell moneyNiggas just write, I recollectHands on, Jeezy really counted them checksI'm Donald Trump in a white tee and white 1'sThe conversation is money: nigga, you want some?[Hook]You gotta believe, you gotta believeAy you ain't never seen them piesI'm talking so much white, it'll hurt ya eyesI really lived it manCounted so much paper, it'll hurt ya handsLet's get it![Verse 2]I'm what the streets made me, a product of my environmentTook what the streets gave me: product in my environmentNow it's 28 inches on the brand new HummerTelling you right now: it's gon' be a cold summerBlew the brains out the Chevy, call it suicideIt's a way of life, that's how us young niggas rideTrap Or Die gave 'em hope, they waiting for the sequelIt's clear to see: the boy Jeezy do it for the people[Hook][Verse 3]I'm the author of the book, yeah a genius wrote itThere's a message in my words, you gotta decode itI seen it all, every gram, every birdI spit the truth, every noun, every verbI never exaggerated one line, one dimeNever lied to the people, not one timeA hard head make a soft assAnd hard white will get ya straight cash
[Hook]You gotta believe, you gotta believeAy you ain't never seen them piesI'm talking so much white, it'll hurt ya eyesI really lived it manCounted so much paper, it'll hurt ya handsLet's get it!
[Verse 2]I'm what the streets made me, a product of my environmentTook what the streets gave me: product in my environmentNow it's 28 inches on the brand new HummerTelling you right now: it's gon' be a cold summerBlew the brains out the Chevy, call it suicideIt's a way of life, that's how us young niggas rideTrap Or Die gave 'em hope, they waiting for the sequelIt's clear to see: the boy Jeezy do it for the people
[Verse 3]I'm the author of the book, yeah a genius wrote itThere's a message in my words, you gotta decode itI seen it all, every gram, every birdI spit the truth, every noun, every verbI never exaggerated one line, one dimeNever lied to the people, not one timeA hard head make a soft assAnd hard white will get ya straight cash
I don't see how you can even begin to think this is lyrically in the same universe as Chief Keef
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL6CVwGTyVs
all you need to hear
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
Faulkner: ‘[Hemingway] has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary.’
Hemingway: ‘Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words?’
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
well that was fucking horrible
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
chief keef, the flaubert of rap
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:58 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i dunno. you think TJ writes rhymes on the low and just chooses to not rhyme in the booth?
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
Faulkner: ‘[Hemingway] has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary.’Hemingway: ‘Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words?’
Does this comeback really make sense to you, particularly in the context of someone comparing Young Jeezy to Chief Keef?
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
I'll cop to the fact that one of my pet peeves is rappers who rhyme the same word with the same word and that if you do that you'll probably irrationally bias me against the rest of your songs, and that's what happened to me w/ jeezy's first record
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
btw fuck you forever dayo, I am currently in the middle of a neverending "popped a molly I'm sweatin' (HOO!)" loop
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:04 PM (0 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think that keef has lyrics that are literal & simple in execution but convey concepts and his worldview w/ efficiency. I think that comparing his lyrics to jeezy's makes jeezy seem more traditionalist & conservative
jeezy was already a simplification of more complex older rappers
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
funniest thing about the whole Trinidad James situation is the co-creator of Martin Lawrence's "Jerome" character threatening to sue
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:06 PM (16 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdhtghdwSD1qdpp8h.gif
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
hahahaha hemingway! love it. deej is bringing it on every level itt.
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
rhyming the same word with the same word is perfectly fine if it's done in a clever way, ie, where the rapper re-states the same phrase but in an entirely different context (ie, Rick Ross "My teacher told me that I was a piece of shit/Saw her the other day, driving a piece of shit"), but then you also have...Mack Maine.
xxxpost
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
why does trinidad james dress like a dollar store jimi hendrix halloween costume?
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
Quee-Farty constantly drawing parallels between the Keef wars and famous literary feuds will never stop being funny
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
no i think he thinks he's above rap in general or may have at least initially -- i mean it takes some cojones to think you can just become a successful rapper after doing it a couple of months, and that all ppl want is 'simplicity' -- he's probably finding out that there's an artfulness to simplicity that is tougher to make 'work' consistently
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
I think he's finding that if you turn yourself into a meme machine ppl will spread your name everywhere and you get famous in spite of yourself
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
honestly deej you're acting like these guys are motown session musicians or something
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
that too xp
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i can see TJ being condescending to the whole idea of rap in the same way as "i'm not a rapper" Shawty Lo types. that feels different to me though from guys like 2 Chainz who rap for 15 years and just get more obnoxious over time. xp
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
tbf this is the trinidad james song u should hear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEwCFWAvGy4
― flopson, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:10 PM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk what this means
so it's settled: chief keef uses viking to mean one who excels
― da croupier, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
omg lol
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
yes that is the tj piece of shit i listened to on youtube already thanks
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdtbd2u9LZ1qlw3djo1_500.gif
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
i figured flopson was making a joke about the one-song-wonder having no 'deep cuts' to champion
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
the "intro" on his Spotify album is unbelievable
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
in a few years this thread will be a debate over the artistic merits of a rapper who raps using solely armpit noises
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
no lie I think about the dn 'trinidad jokes' at least once every 3 days
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
guys gangster rap history has often moved in the direction of simplifying, figuring out the shortest & most efficient way to convey ideas ... prodigy's style was a simplification of the rap before it, the lox's style was a simplification, so was jeezy's. It's really about a pursuit of 'realism,' and it's what drives the direction of the genre. The reason keef is trend setting right now is because he's found a 'realer' style, a style that seems less performative (but of course still is)
the idea that there's LYRICAL RAPPERS and NONLYRICAL RAPPERS isn't exactly wrong, but it confuses things. There are rappers conveying ideas (which Keef is one) and rappers who don't, or just have filler lines or gimmicks or w/e (imo trinidad is one of these). It would be rockist to say one is better than the other, but a tendency i have noticed is that the FORMER tend to have a much more impactful presence on how people rap
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think anybody's arguing about simplicity per se, cuz I think a lot of the people in this thread enjoyed stuff like Compton's Most Wanted that wasn't full of skilled wordplay but had the appropo imagery, character, and menace.
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
i was trying to explain to people that this wasn't about white hipsters fetishizing urban violence and then
The reason keef is trend setting right now is because he's found a 'realer' style
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
well I should say "SOLELY about simplicity"
the debate against narrow ideas of 'lyricism' in rap has had, and deserves, more effective poster boys than Keef, is all
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
er, the "Authenticity" thereof
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
sometimes you can confuse 'filler rappers' w/ 'rappers who convey things', (and its kind of a reductive construct as is) ive done it, im sure we all have at some point
i think a lot of people thought freddie gibbs was the latter and then started to feel like he was actually kinda the former
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
The reason keef is trend setting right now is because he's found a 'realer' style― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:16 PM (24 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
do you not understand what function those quotes are performer here
*performing
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
man freddie gibbs really bugs you huh?
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
no! i've given his albums positive reviews.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
he was just a useful example b/c bdot used him as one in the podcast
This is the heart of the matter, really; stop acting like everyone who hates Keef wants all of their rap to be like Jurassic 5.
Like, if this was all being written about Gunplay, there would be a lot less "wtf are you talking about" going around.
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
gunplay is pretty lyrical tho
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but I get what DJP is saying though.
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not talking about jurassic 5 i'm comparing his style to young jeezy
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
gunplay is in his 30s
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
he's an amazing & dope rapper but he's not the bleeding edge
we all just agree that like Kendrick is Jimmy Page and Keef is Johnny Ramone and those are both perfectly fine aesthetics until deej runs up in here on some "NO KEEF IS SECRETLY JAMES BLOOD ULMER GUYS" and then we make fart jokes
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
i'd listen to a rapper called The Bleeding Edge
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
hahaha the 'youth aspect' is def the weirdest subplot of this whole chief keef debate
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:28 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
asserting that keef is "the bleeding edge" to me seems rhetorically in line with the more rockist type view though, asserting this weird idea that keef is "progressive" in some way that other rappers aren't, as if, like lyricism, there is only one way of being progressive, your privileging your own aesthetic preferences over other people's which is what you're accusing other people of doing
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
and then we make fart jokes
How does Chief Keef spell releef?
― pure dressed up like a white ninja (snoball), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
whiney sorry but i think it's important if you're going to make a case that keef matters that it's about him & not just "oh he picks good beats" or "he is influenced by soulja boy and waka" but actually make a case for what he does, musically
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
deej did u ride for lil romeo back in the day
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but your cases have been remarkably batshit, and that's coming from a keef fan
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:30 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
no, i'm actually observing how his music is causing waves in the culture.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:32 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
great argument
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, January 11, 2013 3:32 PM (54 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
"waves in the culture" - a totally measureable metric for sure
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
causing waves in the bedsheets of culture
― da croupier, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
of course its subjective! but it's kind of unquestionable that certain artists are going to have a bigger impact than others, aesthetically, right? i mean, that's something you can actually hear
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, January 11, 2013 4:31 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ramones are great because of what they do, musically though
― flopson, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
re: waves in the culture
http://www.surferliving.com/forums/uploads/monthly_01_2012/post-2-0-42971400-1325477363.jpg
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
http://cdn.thefader.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/F68_wavves.jpg
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
chief keef is and will be more influential than gunplay, guys, this is not really a deej moment
― flopson, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
― flopson, Friday, January 11, 2013 3:35 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i didnt question the ramones comparison tbh although it's not the most precise one
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
breaking: the keef debate is now at hurricane level "subjective"
― da croupier, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
Chief Keef is more like the guitarist for Staind than Joey Ramone imo
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njkhBhHsq2c
fwiw people might find this interview w/ malik yusef interesting. it brings up some of the complications of keef's situation
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
*johnny
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
― NINO CARTER, Friday, January 11, 2013 3:38 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, and commercial rap is just like fast food, am i right
uh no, i love lots of commercial rap
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
does that make deej fred durst?
― al gould everything (crüt), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
that is not what makes deej Fred Durst
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
CHIEF KEEF:RAP::NU-METAL:METAL makes a lot of sense actually
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
just drop d guitars, aggro chords, no solos ma'am
i did it all for the nookie, is the main thing
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
3 drummers, please
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
pentatonics, that's that shit i don't like
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Friday, January 11, 2013 4:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
can we ban 乒乓 from this fucking thread already
― lol cassidy fan club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUxH1KVi84Q
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
that is definitely some shit I don't like
― al gould everything (crüt), Friday, 11 January 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
omg whoa xpost
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
CHIEF KEEF:RAP::NU-METAL:METAL makes a lot of sense actually― 乒乓, Friday, January 11, 2013 4:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkcan we ban 乒乓 from this fucking thread already
im just tryin to get markers to post more itt, chill
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
that pentatonix video is so fucking vile
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Friday, 11 January 2013 22:32 (eleven years ago) link
Deej - I'm definitely one of the people who do think Keef brings something new to the table and that he is probably important and that the album is among the best of the year, but since you tend to beat down almost everyone who tries to make a similar case as well as those who oppose you, could we at least have some bulletpoints or something to sum up WHAT it is about Keef that YOU think makes him special? And in advance "he makes other rappers sound old" doesn't count as a real argument - that's what he is supposed to do as a rapper. The question is why and how he does it - and by extentsion, what it all might mean.
Thanks.
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 22:40 (eleven years ago) link
i dont think im beating down ppl like jordan etc.! I mostly agree w/ him. I'm just trying to draw out or locate what the appeal is in a way that i think is true & for me personally, his rapping is pretty key to why it 'works' so saying it is 'terrible' is kind of undercutting your case
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 22:59 (eleven years ago) link
& i feel like i have made an argument for what he's doing as a rapper pretty much throughout this thread
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:00 (eleven years ago) link
I never said it was terrible! I like his rapping! And I want your bullet points!
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
deej is making perfectly sensible (& correct) arguments itt
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:04 (eleven years ago) link
whiney's posting itt is especially embarrassing
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
the point about 'realer' is very salient... i mean c'mon it has colored the entire debate about the guy's existence
and again, when it's impossible to distinguish posts from respected posters with those of bo jackson overdrive... it's a sad day for ILX
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
lol i love how i'm being blamed for the fart derail despite joining after it started!
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, so he can go first. All I'm saying is hey, let's be constructive! We have some Keef fans in here. I am one. Let's get those arguments together and see which ones we can use. Let's get a fresh start -without the fart jokes.
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
deej has made plenty of points itt we don't a bullet point list of them again
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:09 (eleven years ago) link
i made some fart jokes and i think i am to blame for the word "fart" being brought up
but i also did listen to it with open ears and tried to make some real observations or at least my honest reactions to it
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:10 (eleven years ago) link
tbh the fart thing was intermittently funny
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't say deej hadn't made points. I'm saying the discussion has been all over the place for a while now and it's time to collect the strands. But if I'm the only person who is interested in reading a positive, non-defensive argument for Keef's importance, I'll gladly bow out.
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
welcome to ilx... unfortunately there are now powerpoint slides in summation at the end
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:14 (eleven years ago) link
here are the pro keef points afaict:
1.) CHICAGO YOUTH MOVEMENT2.) simplified rap into really direct, literal lyrics that makes it really 'effective'3.) has/will influence the direction of 'rap' this year
not sure if any of that supports a 'best album of the year' designation but w/e
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:15 (eleven years ago) link
well no one said it was the best album of the year but okay
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
the YOUTH part is the funniest to me... like I can imagine deej getting tipped off to some up and coming rapper and immediately googling to see how old the kid is
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓
Was that really the premise of all this?
― tsrobodo, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
dayo that's either an ignorant or willful misread of pro-keef arguments, not that i'd expect anything more from you
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
can you take this level of withering derision dayo
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
dayoUTH MOVEMENT
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
lol j0rd, it's the best I could garner from your review #shrug
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
the fetishization of youth culture is the most hilarious part of this to me
like, I may be misremembering and apologies if I am but it seems like half the people big-upping Chief Keef for his youthful vibrancy are the same ppl who kept calling the posters on the rolling teenpop threads pedophiles
I'd go into how his "realness" codes to me but I need to get home and I already obliquely called Keef fans racists once in this thread
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
if anyone knows how to properly condescend its strongo hulkington
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
Take that as a no...
― tsrobodo, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Friday, January 11, 2013 6:19 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark
http://m5.paperblog.com/i/17/172927/condescending-wonka-doesnt-think-much-of-you--L-AR7kD7.jpeg
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Friday, January 11, 2013 5:19 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's not a 'fetishization' of youth culture. describing the context doesn't mean that the context is the reason we like something. thus all the countless explanations where i talk about why i like this.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
if you cant see the difference between 'hate being sober' & teenpop then i just don't know
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
you can't separate chicago youth culture from keef's existence but i'll cede to dayo, clearly an expert on this matter
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:26 (eleven years ago) link
oh yeah, another argument I forgot was that chief keef is the hottest thing in pop rap right now, as evidenced by "i don't like's" and "love sosa"'s peak position of #15 on the billboard rap chart, and "hate bein sobers" runaway success in itunes digital downloads and it's bulletpoint to #2 this week on the billboard hot 100 (barely edged out by bruno mars)
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:27 (eleven years ago) link
clearly all american music revolves around chicago's youth culture B-)
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
if you keep shifting the goalposts then no he's never successful
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
ITS NOT IMPORTANT UNTIL HE HITS A BILLION YOUTUBE VIEWS AND I CAN SEE HIM ON NEW YEAR'S IN TIMES SQUARE
GANGNAM STYLE IS THE ONLY IMPORTANT RAP MUSIC
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
no one even made that argument but again, okay
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
D-40 otm
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
btw j0rd feel free to modify and add or subtract to my bulletpoints as you see fit, this is a collaborative cloud google docs effort #web2.0
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:33 (eleven years ago) link
literally nothing is stopping you from posting more about chief keef right now
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:34 (eleven years ago) link
dayo as far as shameless trolls itt go, at least guys like some dude and DJP have enough confidence in their intellectual capacity to also contribute to the discussion
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
sorry j0rd, for being an intellectual pipsqueak :-(
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
it's no skin off my back
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut if you really want my personal take on this, *clears throat*
no fart youtubes please
― 乒乓, Friday, 11 January 2013 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Friday, January 11, 2013 11:14 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Why are you being so defensive? This is what I'm talking about - you're acting as if you and deej are being attacked - by me. You're not. And I don't want a power point - I'm just trying to get these arguments - the good ones - fleshed out a little.
I think you yourself have made one of the best cases for Keef in arguing for his simplicity and singsongy catchiness as a sort of modernism (one of many possible "modernisms"!) that cuts through all the excess and shows us that the tropes the previous generation of rappers have largely depended on are beginning to sound old. That is an aesthetic argument that works to me because a) it does not really hinge on "intention" - the man found a new, more effective way of doing this, b) brilliance - he can be off! He's still important - and not necessarily because he is off!, and c) the argument takes into consideration that rap is a genre that happens in time - standards change all the time and they change for a number of reasons. Keef did something that made sense to him in his environment and in relation to the rap he came up on, young as he is.
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
i mean personally i don't think deej (or i) has to provide a cliff notes for the arguments itt
― J0rdan S., Friday, 11 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
i heard you the first time. Still not asking for cliff notes. Asking for a cohesive argument to see how far it can be developed if you try to state it positively.
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
And I know you wrote a review. But time has passed, the situation has changed. Rephrasing it won't hurt.
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
like, I think chief keef is pretty good, as I've said before! he has presence on his tracks, his music is distinctive, I actually do think he pulls off his literal, simple rhyming pretty well in the context of his music. he undeniably had one of the catchiest hooks in rap this year w/ I don't like. I get that. and I also get that you and d33j as real, professional music critics get paid to ferret out what's hot, what's trending, especially in your genre, and I can see what you see in keef, that is, he's making some of the catchiest rap out there right now, he's got the momentum from his city (btw, I don't see you and deej talking too much about meek mill & philly...?), and from a music journo standpoint he's got a narrative you can write about, one that people wring their hands over.
but I'm also sympathetic to the voices from the other side of the conversation, the ones that do maybe perhaps want a morality in their art, or at least want to see the art from their community reflect that morality. and hey, I can't really say that I look for morality in my art either, but I can appreciate it when it's there, and can see what other people would find it troubling when it isn't.
I'm not from chicago, I'm not part of that community, never will be, am fortunate that I will (hopefully) never be affected by what goes on in the south side of chicago. but I am sympathetic to what's happening there. I read this piece written by someone from chicago which I have to admit has shaped how I view chief keef.
like, I'm not suggesting that chief keef is the cause or emblematic or even symptomatic of the violence in chicago this year, and it would silly and hypocritical of me to only find a problem with chief keef and not every other rapper I listen to. but, pardon the expression, the connection between chief keef and chicago esp. seems more 'real' than most other comparisons that are out there. maybe I"m getting old, maybe I'm getting soft. and I think that's the crux of my internal dilemma with chief keef - this music that is so chicago in being but also can't really be unwound from what is actually happening in chicago without doing some fancy footwork. and that's what critics do, and do well, and should do! I'm just not sure I've really found that critical redemption of chief keef that I'm looking for yet.
and ultimately I don't have to take a stance on that dilemma I'm not a professional journo, and I'm glad about that! and afaict what you guys are arguing about is mainly aesthetics, because that seems the safest way to appreciate chief keef's music, is through its aesthestification, and tbh, that's the way that people consume most music they listen to. and that's fine, because hey aesthetics are all so goddamn subjective, and it's silly to think that D-40's view on aesthetics on this matter are any more important than DJP's or ships or yours or mine, and it just becomes a giant clusterfuck, which is fun and what these rap threads are really about, people posting about their (ultimately) arbitrary taste preferences for more taste over less filling or less filling over more taste. make some fart jokes! small stakes, sure, but I'm okay with that.
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:05 (eleven years ago) link
curious what you thought of the malik yusef video i posted upthread
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
posting the blog post since I think it's really good and is a lot better at expressing waht I was trying to express:
…………………………sigh.I’ve had a love-hate relationship with my city for a long time now.While I was in undergrad at the University of Virginia, people would often tell me “Joshua, you rep Chicago pretty hard!”. For me it was hard not to.When I first got to VA, I felt extremely isolated and out of place. I ain’t the most hood dude out, but I def was one of the hoodest there. I didn’t dress like them, walk like them; I talked city with a mix of southern drawl in my speech like many black Chicagoans do. They talked either too proper, or too country. I felt disconnected.I was from the south side of the Chi, while the vast majority of my peers were from the suburbs, country towns, and counties of Virginia. I even brought bad habits from my environment (a lot of my friends were from a particular gang, so they wore red and cocked their hat left. I was never part of a gang, but being around them, I picked up the habit. Had to remind myself a few times that people weren’t in gangs in college lol #FAIL.)But one thing that helped me retain a sense of identity was letting everyone know that I was from Chicago. It was more than a Bulls shirt, or a Blackhawks hat, or that on the court people called me Chi-Town or D-Rose. It was a great conversation starter (since for at least the first two years of college, I was the only black male in the entire university hailing from the inner-city of the Chi), and in some way, that pride in where I come from helped me ease the transition into college life as an out-of-state student. As cliché as it sounds (and I know I’ll regret this) you can’t be comfortable where you’re going unless you know where you’re from.I’m proud to be from Chicago. I grew up on the south and west sides of the city, and I appreciate all the things I went through growing up, good and bad. Chicago will always be closest to my heart.But as I started to pack up my apartment in C-Ville after graduation, the loathing side of my love-hate relationship with Chicago started to rear its ugly head.For any student fresh out of college, going back home has its tough negative aspects: living with your parents, feeling grown but not actually being grown, chores (ugh), etc. Leaving C-Ville also meant leaving behind a huge part of my life: my college days. All the friends I was leaving behind, the “study” sessions in (Club) Clemons Library, the parties, chillin wit my Phrat brothers, late night snack runs, the good times, the memories.Leaving UVA meant leaving many simple things I enjoyed; the slower life of VA as opposed to the hustle-and-bustle of the city; the ability to go to the Aquatic Fitness Center whenever I wanted to play basketball (instead of going to play somewhere that might deny you if you look too “urban”, or on an outside court, in neighborhoods where on the wrong day I might have to fight); the safety of the community of scholars and not the danger of being outside my crib at the wrong time.But not only that, going back home meant I had to go back to the most segregated city on the face of the planet. Back to being around the same people with the same mentalities and values as when I first left for college. It meant I had to go back to the south side.If you ask anyone from Chicago how the city is doing, you probably are gonna get one of two kinds of answers. Someone who was born and raised on the north side, their answer is likely to sound like “I love it here. I couldn’t imagine myself living anywhere else!” If you ask someone from the south side, their reply probably will sound a little something like “Man……..I just wanna get the f*** outta here!”. Because for the most part, the North side is what you see when you Google “Chicago”. The South side is full of many people who struggle with the Chicagoan-existential dilemma: Do I stay to help/persevere, cherish the positives of my city? Or do it I run from the negativity?( NOTE: No, I didn’t forget about the East or the West. Just wanted to best convey the dichotomy within the city. And if you are from the north side reading this, I’m not attacking or criticizing my north-sider brothers and sisters. I’m probing a much much broader issue, using location to illustrate my point. There are some really BAD neighborhoods on the North side, just like there are some GREAT neighborhoods on the South side. And there is violence over the entire city, not just the south side. If I accidentally offended anyone’s personal experience, I definitely apologize. It is not, was not, and never will be my intention, so I hope you understand the ideological work I’m trying to do in this article. Please bare with me).Neighborhoods, particularly on the south side (and several on the east and west side) of Chicago have erupted in youth violence. With death tolls increasing yearly, more kids have died in Chicago than US troops in Afghanistan. More and more Chicago Public School students have passed from shootings during the course of a school year (and we won’t even get into how the numbers skyrocket as soon as summer hits. In the Chi, some of us welcome the cold).Too long have news headlines brought me to tears (like the first time my friend showed me the video of Derrion Albert getting beat to death), just like Lupe Fiasco when he saw old footage of himself in his neighborhood with now fallen friends, or our beloved humble superstar and icon Derrick Rose at the unveiling of his new shoe.This epidemic of killing has almost left myself and many like me with a deep sense of hopelessness. It’s very difficult to cope with, and many of us just want to get as far away from the violence as we can. The constant RIP Facebook statuses and daily local news reminders are heartbreaking. So now that I’m back home, after I see my family and few friends, to be honest, I just wanna get out of here. Being here can be draining on my spirit (at its low points).Enter Chief Keef.The first song I heard from Chief Keef was this song called “Everyday“. I was in VA and one of my friends sent me the song on Facebook. At first I thought it was a joke. The lyrics were………..nevermind, and the 20 dreaded-up drillas bobbin’ up and down seemed like a parody. I never knew the word “nigga” could be rhymed with itself so many times.But the ratch in me thought the beat knocked pretty good (Chop is a beast). It was the type of music you would never listen to for deep rumination, but you could turn it on while getting ready for a party. It was a “get in my zone” track. Trap music has its place, and I, like all people, enjoy my share of guilty pleasures. Plus I’m at that intermediate age where music can be wack message-wise, but I can still dance to it (I admit that I still fight the urge to turn-up when “Love Sosa” comes on. My willpower lasts all the way until he says “God y’all some broke boys”).Needless to say, I didn’t really think much about him or the impact of his music, until I came to back home.I was sitting at the kitchen table when my niece walks by listening to “3 Hunna”. I shook my head. I know that while it may seem hypocritical for me to listen to some of his lyrical garbage over electrifying beats but not liking it when she does, I am a whole lot better equipped to distinguish it from music with real substance. My age and musical taste allows me to know way more alternatives.Kids her age listen to the radio and watch music videos for the vast majority of their new music intake, unlike young adults like me in the blog-surfing generation. For the most part, only artists with pop relevance like Chief Keef are what they regularly listen to (if you need an example of how I know this, I once asked her who Erykah Badu was and she didn’t remember. But she can recite Nicki Minaj songs verbatim, because that is what the radio plays). A few days later, I heard my little cousin bumpin “Monster”, lip-syncing “Never trust a bitch, shit you gotta watch em“. Skip to later in the week, when another one of my teenage cousins scrolled through my iPod and asked ”Who all these people? You got some Chief Keef?”.This was the day I would have never expected to see. The face of the City of Wind; the hottest rapper or artist in Chi-town wouldn’t be Yeezy, or Common, or Twista, or Do or Die, or Lupe Fiasco, or Naledge, or Mikkey Halsted, or Kids These Days, or Chance The Rapper, or Rockie Fresh, or Sir Michael Rocks, or Shawnna, or Add-2, etc.It’s Chief Keef.This is who Chicago picked to show the world our talent?But I wasn’t dreaming. One “I Dont Like” G.O.O.D Music Remix, and a multi-million dollar publishing deal (with his own Beats By Dre headphone line and movie deal) later, and I was in shock (BANG BANG!).Fast forward the tape.Lupe Fiasco was quoted in an interview, saying “Chief Keef scares me. Not him specifically, but the culture that he represents.”Chief Keef felt that Lupe was dissing him, so he tweeted, “lupe fiasco a hoe ass nigga And wen I see him I’ma smack him like the lil bitch he is #300“.My first reaction to this was again, ambivalence. It was a mixture of sadness and disappointment. A smh and a sigh. The smh was at the ignorance of the response; that this was the way he felt he had to handle his perceived defamation. I cringed at the thought of the impoverished, misguided youth in Chicago and in the rest of the country who are supportive of Chief Keef, who might revel in this type retaliation and view it as justified. I winced at the thought of suburban kid entertained by this “real niggatry”, while their parents utter their justifiable, but nuance-lacking disapproval in a dismissive “…..Niggas (Niggers)”.The sigh was in the fact that though his reply seems irrational, how can you expect him not to react this way? A kid from his background doesn’t understand what Lupe meant; that it was not a direct attack on him, but more so an indirect attack on the system that would give a 17-yr old kid who pretty much only raps about guns, his distrust for new niggas, fuckin’ b*tches, and smokin dope millions of dollars. How can you even blame Chief Keef for his lyrical content? That is all he knows.I agree with 50 Cent when he said “Chief Keef is only going to respond to Lupe as ‘why is he talkin about me?’ ” You can only expect that method of retaliation from a kid that young, from that environment, who (whether it is true or not) feels he has nothing in common with a person like Lupe.Fast forward the tape a little more.South side rapper Lil Jojo was shot and killed on Sept 3. His death is believed to be linked to his beef with one of Chief Keef’s affiliates, Lil’ Reese, although to my knowledge, no real evidence of this has been found. Jojo had previously posted YouTube videos saying that he was BDK (for people not from Chicago, this is a diss towards the Chicago gang Black Disciple Nation. Replacing the “N” for “nation” and adding a “K” for “killer” to the moniker of any gang is a huge gesture of disrespect to that gang. It’s saying you will kill anyone who is in that gang) and that he was going to kill Lil’ Reese and Chief Keef.Chief Keef responded to JoJo’s death with a resounding “LMAO”. He tried to deny the situation by saying his account was hacked, though I contend that “his” tweets were clearly written by his publicistsTwitter exploded that entire week. Personally, I was both saddened and infuriated at his response. Irate because even if someone is your “enemy”, to laugh at them is the ultimate disrespect to them, and their loved ones. But also sad, because Jojo’s death was senseless, solved nothing, and Chief Keef probably doesn’t or wouldn’t see anything wrong with laughing at someone else’s death. Many people called for a boycott of him and for Interscope to drop him from the label, which for both right (all saints have a past, all sinners have a future) and wrong reasons (the label has too much money invested to pull out) def won’t happen.Fast forward even more.Instagram shut down Chief Keef’s personal account because he posted a photo of him receiving a sexual act by a girl.He said that his IG account was hacked as well……………..(sigh)Chief Keef is the embodiment of my ambivalence towards the home I love.He is a success story of a kid, from one of the worst neighborhoods in the Chi, who got a multi-million dollar record deal, all from making YouTube rap videos at his grandma’s crib. He is proof that even when you are at the bottom, you can still ascend from your misfortune. No matter what it looks like, we all love a rags-to-riches story.Despite some of the negative message in his lyrics, he likely has provided a spark for some inner city youth to get off the streets and into the studio. No matter what he does that we view as negative, he is serving as a blessing to someone. Now it seems like every kid in Chicago wants to be a rapper, and whether they are good or not might not matter. At least they are off the streets and are doing something productive.And he is bringing long overdue attention to a city with probably the most untapped musical potential in the country. This attention can help artists like Add-2, Chance The Rapper, or Kids These Days to one day get signed to major deals.He’s from my city. Our city.But on the other hand, he sadly has become the new poster boy for every single thing I loathe about the media, record labels, and pop culture. Record labels are exploiting not only his image, but the mass of violence in our city. As soon as he is irrelevant, they will cash their checks and yell “Kobe!” as they toss him in the trash. And no other rappers will say he’s wack, has limited talent, or speak out against him because they either might be affiliated with the same label or don’t want to be tagged as a “hater” (side-eye)He is a rope in the tug-o-war sociological debate in this country when it comes to the plight of minorities: should we implore each citizen to take personal responsibility for their own life (even in the absence of a level playing-field, which is a whole other possibility vs. probability debate), or should we try to fix a system that gives some of less benefits and more hardships (a system in which if minorities ask for help, some will say they are lazy, asking for handouts, or have a “sense of entitlement”)?He is the symbol of the pimping of the negative aspects within the black community without prognosticating why they are there. He is the portrait of white America’s infatuation with narrow aspects of the black community, most specifically, its implosion; a picture that is commodified, if and when it becomes profitable, but is met with apathy and disdain when it is the controversial topic of social conversation that investigates its causes and effects. He is the quintessential example of the notion that vice is a “black value”, even though the vast majority of people who own record labels, buy music, and attend concerts are not black.He is a new chapter in the declension narrative of hip hop; a reminder that there probably won’t be any more College Dropout’s, Carter II’s, Illmatic’s, Miseducation’s, Food & Liquor’s, Below the Heavens’, etc. Artists like him are the progenitors of this new wave of (in the words of Naledge) “Nigga nigga……nigga nigga……add a hook” trap rap that saturates the airways. They are the benefactors of mainstream radio that keeps non-socially conscious music in perpetual rotation, but wouldn’t play “Murder For Excellence” (not even in Chicago!). They are the product of a segregated city that seems to care far less about some parts while others are flourishing; swept under the rug to keep the Chi as Google-appropriate as possible.Artists like him have an image that makes people in city pray for some kind of hope. We love Derrick Rose and everything that he represents, but he isn’t enough to change the culture here. And while it is very unfair to throw the weight of Chicago on Yeezy’s shoulders, we would love for him to be our savior and be more salient in these issues (Where Are You Yeezy?)And most of all, Keef is just a kid.He’s a kid from my city who seems to value all the wrong things in life, because life seems to not place any value on him. He’s like so many of us in this world who don’t even realize how much we are truly blessed, because we are so affected by the times in which we were cursed……..Some will read this article and say “You’re all talk! What are you gonna do about the problem besides talk?”, and I won’t respond to that. Because to either brag about what charity you have done/ are doing/ will do for others, or to look down on others for not doing the same amount as you completely defeats the purpose. While I know there are people who do far less than me to help, there are people who do far far far more than I ever could, and I thank God for them.My heart breaks knowing that instead of reading this article as me criticizing a system that made Chief Keef and using his story as an example, too many people will see this post as me attacking him. Some will hypocritically applaud me for it, like a man who casts the first stone; like somehow he is the biggest problem and cause of the rest of the problems in the city, which is the epitome of ignorance to think. Others will retaliate against me, a person they think is a weak-minded, young, “educated” snob attacking a kid, and a city for not knowing any better, which I’m not.I just have a love-hate relationship with Chicago.“Bittersweet……..you’re gonna be the death of me. I don’t want you, but I need you. I love you and hate you at the very same time” – Kanye West & John MayerRIP to all the lives taken by violence across the nation, and here in Chicago.God Bless the Youth. Save Our Students.We Out Here,Josh A (follow me @iRockJoshA)
I’ve had a love-hate relationship with my city for a long time now.
While I was in undergrad at the University of Virginia, people would often tell me “Joshua, you rep Chicago pretty hard!”. For me it was hard not to.
When I first got to VA, I felt extremely isolated and out of place. I ain’t the most hood dude out, but I def was one of the hoodest there. I didn’t dress like them, walk like them; I talked city with a mix of southern drawl in my speech like many black Chicagoans do. They talked either too proper, or too country. I felt disconnected.
I was from the south side of the Chi, while the vast majority of my peers were from the suburbs, country towns, and counties of Virginia. I even brought bad habits from my environment (a lot of my friends were from a particular gang, so they wore red and cocked their hat left. I was never part of a gang, but being around them, I picked up the habit. Had to remind myself a few times that people weren’t in gangs in college lol #FAIL.)
But one thing that helped me retain a sense of identity was letting everyone know that I was from Chicago. It was more than a Bulls shirt, or a Blackhawks hat, or that on the court people called me Chi-Town or D-Rose. It was a great conversation starter (since for at least the first two years of college, I was the only black male in the entire university hailing from the inner-city of the Chi), and in some way, that pride in where I come from helped me ease the transition into college life as an out-of-state student. As cliché as it sounds (and I know I’ll regret this) you can’t be comfortable where you’re going unless you know where you’re from.
I’m proud to be from Chicago. I grew up on the south and west sides of the city, and I appreciate all the things I went through growing up, good and bad. Chicago will always be closest to my heart.
But as I started to pack up my apartment in C-Ville after graduation, the loathing side of my love-hate relationship with Chicago started to rear its ugly head.
For any student fresh out of college, going back home has its tough negative aspects: living with your parents, feeling grown but not actually being grown, chores (ugh), etc. Leaving C-Ville also meant leaving behind a huge part of my life: my college days. All the friends I was leaving behind, the “study” sessions in (Club) Clemons Library, the parties, chillin wit my Phrat brothers, late night snack runs, the good times, the memories.
Leaving UVA meant leaving many simple things I enjoyed; the slower life of VA as opposed to the hustle-and-bustle of the city; the ability to go to the Aquatic Fitness Center whenever I wanted to play basketball (instead of going to play somewhere that might deny you if you look too “urban”, or on an outside court, in neighborhoods where on the wrong day I might have to fight); the safety of the community of scholars and not the danger of being outside my crib at the wrong time.
But not only that, going back home meant I had to go back to the most segregated city on the face of the planet. Back to being around the same people with the same mentalities and values as when I first left for college. It meant I had to go back to the south side.
If you ask anyone from Chicago how the city is doing, you probably are gonna get one of two kinds of answers. Someone who was born and raised on the north side, their answer is likely to sound like “I love it here. I couldn’t imagine myself living anywhere else!” If you ask someone from the south side, their reply probably will sound a little something like “Man……..I just wanna get the f*** outta here!”. Because for the most part, the North side is what you see when you Google “Chicago”. The South side is full of many people who struggle with the Chicagoan-existential dilemma: Do I stay to help/persevere, cherish the positives of my city? Or do it I run from the negativity?
( NOTE: No, I didn’t forget about the East or the West. Just wanted to best convey the dichotomy within the city. And if you are from the north side reading this, I’m not attacking or criticizing my north-sider brothers and sisters. I’m probing a much much broader issue, using location to illustrate my point. There are some really BAD neighborhoods on the North side, just like there are some GREAT neighborhoods on the South side. And there is violence over the entire city, not just the south side. If I accidentally offended anyone’s personal experience, I definitely apologize. It is not, was not, and never will be my intention, so I hope you understand the ideological work I’m trying to do in this article. Please bare with me).
Neighborhoods, particularly on the south side (and several on the east and west side) of Chicago have erupted in youth violence. With death tolls increasing yearly, more kids have died in Chicago than US troops in Afghanistan. More and more Chicago Public School students have passed from shootings during the course of a school year (and we won’t even get into how the numbers skyrocket as soon as summer hits. In the Chi, some of us welcome the cold).
Too long have news headlines brought me to tears (like the first time my friend showed me the video of Derrion Albert getting beat to death), just like Lupe Fiasco when he saw old footage of himself in his neighborhood with now fallen friends, or our beloved humble superstar and icon Derrick Rose at the unveiling of his new shoe.
This epidemic of killing has almost left myself and many like me with a deep sense of hopelessness. It’s very difficult to cope with, and many of us just want to get as far away from the violence as we can. The constant RIP Facebook statuses and daily local news reminders are heartbreaking. So now that I’m back home, after I see my family and few friends, to be honest, I just wanna get out of here. Being here can be draining on my spirit (at its low points).
Enter Chief Keef.
The first song I heard from Chief Keef was this song called “Everyday“. I was in VA and one of my friends sent me the song on Facebook. At first I thought it was a joke. The lyrics were………..nevermind, and the 20 dreaded-up drillas bobbin’ up and down seemed like a parody. I never knew the word “nigga” could be rhymed with itself so many times.
But the ratch in me thought the beat knocked pretty good (Chop is a beast). It was the type of music you would never listen to for deep rumination, but you could turn it on while getting ready for a party. It was a “get in my zone” track. Trap music has its place, and I, like all people, enjoy my share of guilty pleasures. Plus I’m at that intermediate age where music can be wack message-wise, but I can still dance to it (I admit that I still fight the urge to turn-up when “Love Sosa” comes on. My willpower lasts all the way until he says “God y’all some broke boys”).
Needless to say, I didn’t really think much about him or the impact of his music, until I came to back home.
I was sitting at the kitchen table when my niece walks by listening to “3 Hunna”. I shook my head. I know that while it may seem hypocritical for me to listen to some of his lyrical garbage over electrifying beats but not liking it when she does, I am a whole lot better equipped to distinguish it from music with real substance. My age and musical taste allows me to know way more alternatives.
Kids her age listen to the radio and watch music videos for the vast majority of their new music intake, unlike young adults like me in the blog-surfing generation. For the most part, only artists with pop relevance like Chief Keef are what they regularly listen to (if you need an example of how I know this, I once asked her who Erykah Badu was and she didn’t remember. But she can recite Nicki Minaj songs verbatim, because that is what the radio plays). A few days later, I heard my little cousin bumpin “Monster”, lip-syncing “Never trust a bitch, shit you gotta watch em“. Skip to later in the week, when another one of my teenage cousins scrolled through my iPod and asked ”Who all these people? You got some Chief Keef?”.
This was the day I would have never expected to see. The face of the City of Wind; the hottest rapper or artist in Chi-town wouldn’t be Yeezy, or Common, or Twista, or Do or Die, or Lupe Fiasco, or Naledge, or Mikkey Halsted, or Kids These Days, or Chance The Rapper, or Rockie Fresh, or Sir Michael Rocks, or Shawnna, or Add-2, etc.
It’s Chief Keef.
This is who Chicago picked to show the world our talent?
But I wasn’t dreaming. One “I Dont Like” G.O.O.D Music Remix, and a multi-million dollar publishing deal (with his own Beats By Dre headphone line and movie deal) later, and I was in shock (BANG BANG!).
Fast forward the tape.
Lupe Fiasco was quoted in an interview, saying “Chief Keef scares me. Not him specifically, but the culture that he represents.”
Chief Keef felt that Lupe was dissing him, so he tweeted, “lupe fiasco a hoe ass nigga And wen I see him I’ma smack him like the lil bitch he is #300“.
My first reaction to this was again, ambivalence. It was a mixture of sadness and disappointment. A smh and a sigh. The smh was at the ignorance of the response; that this was the way he felt he had to handle his perceived defamation. I cringed at the thought of the impoverished, misguided youth in Chicago and in the rest of the country who are supportive of Chief Keef, who might revel in this type retaliation and view it as justified. I winced at the thought of suburban kid entertained by this “real niggatry”, while their parents utter their justifiable, but nuance-lacking disapproval in a dismissive “…..Niggas (Niggers)”.
The sigh was in the fact that though his reply seems irrational, how can you expect him not to react this way? A kid from his background doesn’t understand what Lupe meant; that it was not a direct attack on him, but more so an indirect attack on the system that would give a 17-yr old kid who pretty much only raps about guns, his distrust for new niggas, fuckin’ b*tches, and smokin dope millions of dollars. How can you even blame Chief Keef for his lyrical content? That is all he knows.
I agree with 50 Cent when he said “Chief Keef is only going to respond to Lupe as ‘why is he talkin about me?’ ” You can only expect that method of retaliation from a kid that young, from that environment, who (whether it is true or not) feels he has nothing in common with a person like Lupe.
Fast forward the tape a little more.
South side rapper Lil Jojo was shot and killed on Sept 3. His death is believed to be linked to his beef with one of Chief Keef’s affiliates, Lil’ Reese, although to my knowledge, no real evidence of this has been found. Jojo had previously posted YouTube videos saying that he was BDK (for people not from Chicago, this is a diss towards the Chicago gang Black Disciple Nation. Replacing the “N” for “nation” and adding a “K” for “killer” to the moniker of any gang is a huge gesture of disrespect to that gang. It’s saying you will kill anyone who is in that gang) and that he was going to kill Lil’ Reese and Chief Keef.
Chief Keef responded to JoJo’s death with a resounding “LMAO”. He tried to deny the situation by saying his account was hacked, though I contend that “his” tweets were clearly written by his publicists
Twitter exploded that entire week. Personally, I was both saddened and infuriated at his response. Irate because even if someone is your “enemy”, to laugh at them is the ultimate disrespect to them, and their loved ones. But also sad, because Jojo’s death was senseless, solved nothing, and Chief Keef probably doesn’t or wouldn’t see anything wrong with laughing at someone else’s death. Many people called for a boycott of him and for Interscope to drop him from the label, which for both right (all saints have a past, all sinners have a future) and wrong reasons (the label has too much money invested to pull out) def won’t happen.
Fast forward even more.
Instagram shut down Chief Keef’s personal account because he posted a photo of him receiving a sexual act by a girl.
He said that his IG account was hacked as well……………..
(sigh)
Chief Keef is the embodiment of my ambivalence towards the home I love.
He is a success story of a kid, from one of the worst neighborhoods in the Chi, who got a multi-million dollar record deal, all from making YouTube rap videos at his grandma’s crib. He is proof that even when you are at the bottom, you can still ascend from your misfortune. No matter what it looks like, we all love a rags-to-riches story.
Despite some of the negative message in his lyrics, he likely has provided a spark for some inner city youth to get off the streets and into the studio. No matter what he does that we view as negative, he is serving as a blessing to someone. Now it seems like every kid in Chicago wants to be a rapper, and whether they are good or not might not matter. At least they are off the streets and are doing something productive.
And he is bringing long overdue attention to a city with probably the most untapped musical potential in the country. This attention can help artists like Add-2, Chance The Rapper, or Kids These Days to one day get signed to major deals.
He’s from my city. Our city.
But on the other hand, he sadly has become the new poster boy for every single thing I loathe about the media, record labels, and pop culture. Record labels are exploiting not only his image, but the mass of violence in our city. As soon as he is irrelevant, they will cash their checks and yell “Kobe!” as they toss him in the trash. And no other rappers will say he’s wack, has limited talent, or speak out against him because they either might be affiliated with the same label or don’t want to be tagged as a “hater” (side-eye)
He is a rope in the tug-o-war sociological debate in this country when it comes to the plight of minorities: should we implore each citizen to take personal responsibility for their own life (even in the absence of a level playing-field, which is a whole other possibility vs. probability debate), or should we try to fix a system that gives some of less benefits and more hardships (a system in which if minorities ask for help, some will say they are lazy, asking for handouts, or have a “sense of entitlement”)?
He is the symbol of the pimping of the negative aspects within the black community without prognosticating why they are there. He is the portrait of white America’s infatuation with narrow aspects of the black community, most specifically, its implosion; a picture that is commodified, if and when it becomes profitable, but is met with apathy and disdain when it is the controversial topic of social conversation that investigates its causes and effects. He is the quintessential example of the notion that vice is a “black value”, even though the vast majority of people who own record labels, buy music, and attend concerts are not black.
He is a new chapter in the declension narrative of hip hop; a reminder that there probably won’t be any more College Dropout’s, Carter II’s, Illmatic’s, Miseducation’s, Food & Liquor’s, Below the Heavens’, etc. Artists like him are the progenitors of this new wave of (in the words of Naledge) “Nigga nigga……nigga nigga……add a hook” trap rap that saturates the airways. They are the benefactors of mainstream radio that keeps non-socially conscious music in perpetual rotation, but wouldn’t play “Murder For Excellence” (not even in Chicago!). They are the product of a segregated city that seems to care far less about some parts while others are flourishing; swept under the rug to keep the Chi as Google-appropriate as possible.
Artists like him have an image that makes people in city pray for some kind of hope. We love Derrick Rose and everything that he represents, but he isn’t enough to change the culture here. And while it is very unfair to throw the weight of Chicago on Yeezy’s shoulders, we would love for him to be our savior and be more salient in these issues (Where Are You Yeezy?)
And most of all, Keef is just a kid.
He’s a kid from my city who seems to value all the wrong things in life, because life seems to not place any value on him. He’s like so many of us in this world who don’t even realize how much we are truly blessed, because we are so affected by the times in which we were cursed……..
Some will read this article and say “You’re all talk! What are you gonna do about the problem besides talk?”, and I won’t respond to that. Because to either brag about what charity you have done/ are doing/ will do for others, or to look down on others for not doing the same amount as you completely defeats the purpose. While I know there are people who do far less than me to help, there are people who do far far far more than I ever could, and I thank God for them.
My heart breaks knowing that instead of reading this article as me criticizing a system that made Chief Keef and using his story as an example, too many people will see this post as me attacking him. Some will hypocritically applaud me for it, like a man who casts the first stone; like somehow he is the biggest problem and cause of the rest of the problems in the city, which is the epitome of ignorance to think. Others will retaliate against me, a person they think is a weak-minded, young, “educated” snob attacking a kid, and a city for not knowing any better, which I’m not.
I just have a love-hate relationship with Chicago.
“Bittersweet……..you’re gonna be the death of me. I don’t want you, but I need you. I love you and hate you at the very same time” – Kanye West & John Mayer
RIP to all the lives taken by violence across the nation, and here in Chicago.
God Bless the Youth. Save Our Students.
We Out Here,
Josh A (follow me @iRockJoshA)
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
re: this from dayo's link, i think about this a lot, him in the context of chicago's impressive rap history
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:14 (eleven years ago) link
rockie fresh being in that list is weird AF though
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
that's a pretty weird view of chi rap history though. chicago rap was a lot more than those acts. the chi bangin comps were huge. or think about DA Smart's 'walk with me'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug-_otAToP8
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
well i'm not cosigning the whole list there or anything -- "such talent! like that one guy from Cool Kids!" xp
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
but seriously when you say this kid from the town of Twista and Do Or Die has a masterful sense of rhythm i dunno man
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
smh how did we have 200+ posts & you still don't understand
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:19 (eleven years ago) link
I tend to think of it as two traditions. There's the tradition of transcendence wher ethe rapper overcomes the troubles of his upbringing - mainly through his ability to rap well (most obvious on, say, Kendrick's album and Starshipz & Rocketz) and then there's the non-transcendent tradition, exemplified by Gucci for instance, where the rapper is totally immersed in his surroundings and has no intention of getting out - just to get more money, cars, drugs, etc. And then there's Jeezy who is sort of inbetween those traditions - especially after he got inspirational - and that's how all the real hiphop guys came to love him. Keef seems even more immersed than Gucci, caught up in a cycle of violence and even embodying that cycle and its lack of "tomorrow". But the point, to me at least, is that it's still a matter of aesthetics and tradition. Not only of course. But we do meet Keef chiefly as a rapper, not a killer. We're not reviewing his crimes.
― future kendricks (longneck), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:19 (eleven years ago) link
maybe that's the point though - that chicago has such a impressive history that you could grow up there and not know about this or that act/comp? I'm sure there are dozens of philly rappers/tapes out there I know nothing about xp
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:19 (eleven years ago) link
all i'm saying is gangbang rap is a long-running thing in chi
you never converted anyone on the 'rhythm' thing man, never will
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:20 (eleven years ago) link
Old LEP is completely frightening shit actuallyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BrI1Gu3XzU
the 1st rapper w/ count is Larro, who was killed in 2006
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:21 (eleven years ago) link
anyway, as sort of a powerpoint summation of what I was saying to j0rd, the conversation that I find interesting about chief keef (rap, morality, reality, etc.) is also one that's really tough to have, esp on ILX, so why not just talk bout aesthetics and make fart jokes instead, ya mean?
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:21 (eleven years ago) link
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, January 11, 2013 6:20 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Jordan (non-j0rdan) confirmed everything I said. keep dreaming
― 乒乓, Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:21 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
If not here, then where? It's an important discussion.
― future kendricks (longneck), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:24 (eleven years ago) link
he confirmed that "he's usually not in the pocket in the traditional sense and almost always rushes/falls ahead of the beat" and that he was so far off the beat on the big lean song that he agreed it could be an engineer issue. high praise.
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:24 (eleven years ago) link
you are still completely incapable of understanding the different between the macro & micro rhythmic issues
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:26 (eleven years ago) link
he is 'offbeat' but that doesn't mean he's not still hitting a rhythm. jazz artists are 'off beat' all the time (rushing or falling behind), i mean that's the nature of swing
but one can have a masterful command of rhythm and still swing.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:27 (eleven years ago) link
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, January 11, 2013 6:19 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is a really weird construct
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
anyway, hope you're happy j0rd that after all that I just got deej and ship arguing about hemiola again
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:29 (eleven years ago) link
we're not arguing, al is either completely ignorant or is willfully misrepresenting me.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
deej it doesn't strike as odd at all that the song you initially brought up as an exemplary rhythmic performance, you're now totally committed to the theory that an incompetent engineer mislaid the vocal track and made it a trainwreck?
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
i mean every post you've made on this subject, you've basically admitted "well I can't hear any of these rhythmic nuances you guys hear, but if they exist this is definitely the reason"
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
i'm NOT totally committed to that -- from the VERY FIRST TIME i talked about it in this thread i said it was either mislaid by an engineer or he's got a masterful sense of rhythm because of how he's entering at an unexpected time on the beat
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
again, misrepresenting my argument
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, January 11, 2013 6:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i NEVER said anything remotely related to this!~
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:35 (eleven years ago) link
HOW ARE YOU SO INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING A REALLY SIMPLE CONCEPT JORDAN EXPLAINED THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN OFFBEAT FLOW (MICRO) AND ACTUAL RHYTHMIC PATTERN (MACRO) IN HIS POSTS ITS VERY FUCKING SIMPLE
― 乒乓, Friday, January 11, 2013 7:29 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark
well yeah, so it goes
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:38 (eleven years ago) link
The furthest you can reasonably take this is to say Keef's sense of rhythm complements his style.
― tsrobodo, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:39 (eleven years ago) link
The beats etc..
*sigh(
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
And it's probably best to leave Jazz out of this.
― tsrobodo, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
its best if u stfu
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:41 (eleven years ago) link
one thing that i think is an issue in the keef debate is that it makes much more sense to talk about 'finally rich' from an aesthetic standpoint because its very much wrapped up in its own aesthetics. 'back from the dead' is not that way and from an aesthetic standpoint it has less going on and its influences are much easier to trace out, and the moral issues that keef presents are much more apparent in those early tracks than they are in the ones on 'finally rich'.
the entire debate of what keef represents is more divorced from 'finally rich' than i think a lot of people realize, which is why i thought something like derogatis' review was a trainwreck
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
Chill. It ain't that serious.
― tsrobodo, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:46 (eleven years ago) link
j0rdan you make it sound like some Trout Mask Replica thing inventing his own language. he's making a variation on Soulja Boy rap, and he can't catch the beat with a butterfly net, just like Soulja Boy.
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
you guys are amazing <3
― mookieproof, Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
how can you listen to a track like 'diamonds' & say he cant catch the beat ? he's completely in the pocket
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:50 (eleven years ago) link
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, January 11, 2013 7:49 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
wait what are you talking about
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:50 (eleven years ago) link
that malik yusef video is really great everyone should watch it
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:51 (eleven years ago) link
i assume you're not talking about the hemiola beat xp
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:51 (eleven years ago) link
don't recall having any opinion either way about the vox on that one, will have to listen to it again tonight to remind myself what his delivery is like on it
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:52 (eleven years ago) link
i'm never talking about the hemiola beat itt, it's a red herring
― J0rdan S., Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:42 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think this ties in with what I was trying to say. The Finally Rich narrative points toward transcendence in a way that Back From The Dead-Keef didn't - but it's like people don't really believe it. They still primarily identify him with the environment he represents - and I think that's partly why the "he can't rap" argument keeps popping up in the discourse as well, since you are only allowed to transcend the environment if what you are doing can be considered as art rather than as an automated "reflection" of what goes on in your life.
― future kendricks (longneck), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:53 (eleven years ago) link
we've all agreed he has an 'off-beat flow' where he occasionally plays w/ how on or off beat he is. other rappers do that sometimes, he does it a lot. an example of a rapper doing it is how eazy e ends "making sure the mutherfuckers don't see me" on 'for the love of $'
this, obv, has nothing to do w/ the big lean song, which was on some next level shit starting each phrase like 2 beats early
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:54 (eleven years ago) link
like is it just impossible to say maybe he's sloppy? that possibility can not ever be entertained? xp
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:54 (eleven years ago) link
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, January 11, 2013 6:53 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i don't think he's left it allll behind. and the reason for that is in the malik video (thank you for checking it out m@tt)
― trey songza (some dude), Friday, January 11, 2013 6:54 PM (24 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i thought we all had agreed there was a sloppiness to his style?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:55 (eleven years ago) link
1017 new answers
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
well i'm not saying everyone has to agree with me in terms of the quality of what he's doing on the album. but the mixtape and album are clearly different... like there was much more thought and time put into 'finally rich' and how it sounds than and what he does with his voice and choruses than there was on 'back from the dead'. it's just a much, much more intensive album... i mean almost anything would be compared to what they went for with 'back from the dead' but still.
i don't think that keef has totally left all that stuff behind, there's still some scattered lyrics about shooting people in the face and stuff. but it is instructive that the album is called FINALLY RICH, after all. the tone and mood of the album is a lot different than the mixtape. i do think that if you heard the album w/o knowing keef's backstory it wouldn't scan as a remarkably divisive album content-wise.
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:02 (eleven years ago) link
so i don't know... that question of how far to separate his backstory and old music from the 15 or so songs on 'finally rich' is probably something that tripped me up in my review. but i think it's also muddled the debate a lot because people are talking about different things even if they don't realize it.
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:04 (eleven years ago) link
did you quote my post on purpose because i wasn't talking about lyrical content at all
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
oh. frankly i'm not sure what you're talking about.
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Friday, January 11, 2013 8:04 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well yeah, it's also kind of weird since if people (and I'm not singling you out in particular) are gonna focus on the organic, grassroots-driven success that keef has had, then it's gonna be because of the more grim earlier stuff. like, if you want to use the CHICAGO YOUTH MOVEMENT as one point to support taking chief keef seriously, you don't get to also totally erase the part of his past that got him that support in the first place by only talking about finally rich.
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:13 (eleven years ago) link
the earlier stuff wasnt THAT grim either. there were songs like 'true religion jeans' and 'designer' and 'everyday' that had basically no gang banging
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
if anything the 'realness' of keef that scares so many people makes a lot of 'violent' rap that doesn't have that same angle seem cheaper and more exploitative to me, rather than the other way around.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:31 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, January 11, 2013 8:29 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark
well idk... there were some songs like that but the majority of it is pretty grim
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:37 (eleven years ago) link
i agree btw that he's making a variation of soulja boy rap. i just think he's really really good at it and does things on the album that are pretty unique. all i tried to do w/ my review was talk about his place in the matrix of artists like wayne/gucci/soulja/waka/jeezy/future etc. i don't necessarily think that keef himself is a gamechanger or a groundbreaker but that entire group of artists definitely is (and continues to be). i think keef makes songs as good as any of them and is helping carry that baton to whoever the next artist is.
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:40 (eleven years ago) link
i think he's a dope rapper who made a dope album & part of this clusterfuck is about the timeless ILX activity of eating up boredom by trying to reframe each other's arguments so that you sound less crazy by a narcissism of small differences & then someone says something that is a little past the line & then you characterize it as totally nuts, and someone else says something a little more out there & they get characterized as completely wrong, and it's about trying to get your opponent to 'slip up' and admit something as horrible as liking this more than that perfunctory meek mill album (which i also like, but is about 100x more boring than the keef record)
so now you can't say its important or that he's not doing something new w/out RADICALLY OVERSTATING HIS SIGNIFICANCE COME ON GUYS HE ONLY HAS ONE BILLBOARD HIT AS A SOLO ARTIST even though 8 mo. ago i was saying, 'this guy could do something' & everyone's like HE"LL NEVER GET AN ALBUM OUT but as the mood shifts, so do the goalposts, and people who thought he'd never have a major label debut think he won't sell, and then when he sells they set up this false sales expectations as if those of us who like keef's music were expecting him to do 100k+ without any songs in rotation
shit is silly & sorry but Al is a big part of why this style of argumentation is completely frustrating
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:46 (eleven years ago) link
the malik yusef vid is great
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:47 (eleven years ago) link
I agree with all that deej but the thing is you are just as responsible for the clusterfucking as anybody else! me included
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:48 (eleven years ago) link
i have no idea what will happen w/ him and his career but he was without a doubt one of the most interesting recording artists -- contextual shit ASIDE -- in 2012. his songs were most interesting, i wanted to hear them the most, his rapping engaged me, i cared what he was saying, which are my main expectations for rappers
xp i do take responsibility for the clusterfucking generally, i am nothing if not playing my role
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 01:48 (eleven years ago) link
I am just coming back to this thread and this may be projection/overstepping but I seriously doubt anyone who has graduated with an Ivy League degree feels any any doubt about their intellectual capacity; in fact this charge may be the single dumbest thing I've seen in this argument.
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Saturday, 12 January 2013 02:44 (eleven years ago) link
nah it's cool DJP; I get what he was saying.
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 02:46 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i mean 乒乓 brought some quality content to the thread after and seemingly in response to that post
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
I should have kept reading before I posted
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:01 (eleven years ago) link
i was just trying to goad dayo into not being a dick for 5 minutes
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
wait dayo did you go to an ivy? i had no idea
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:06 (eleven years ago) link
i mean i was also sort of mad at him too
I think it's been a running thing in the goon threads how I only pop in to snipe and zing and troll people, which is probably pretty true!
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:09 (eleven years ago) link
pfft you don't need an ivy degree to do that
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:10 (eleven years ago) link
but otherwise goon threads are just deej ship and whiney meshed into a neverending http://i.imgur.com/YfJmn.gif
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:12 (eleven years ago) link
Lol now I feel like I just blew up dayo's spot
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:14 (eleven years ago) link
lol I've posted about it before plus j0rd should have known from fb
― 乒乓, Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:15 (eleven years ago) link
as an independent observer, i thought everyone was p. chill despite talking past each other for 1k posts
not like a [MODERATOR EDIT NECESSARY FOR ALL OUR SANITY] or anything
― mookieproof, Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:16 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah I hope slocki doesnt find this thread too
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 03:48 (eleven years ago) link
The one thing about the jazz/keef things that breaks down for me is that free jazz dudes who were challenging rhythmic conventions were all schooled in the classics and completely technically adept enough to knock out sets of standards, where it's not like keef could like knock out a Do or Die type verse
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 12 January 2013 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
"You already know how to rap. Now rap wrong and make THAT right": Keef D-Bags Thread 2013
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 15:15 (eleven years ago) link
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M-OqF8-N-Dw#
like this is one of the first coltrane recordings and you can here him pushing a bit compared to the others but only slightly, this was a wilbur hardin record
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 12 January 2013 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
god y'all some bop boys
― trey songza (some dude), Saturday, 12 January 2013 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
there were individual jazz players who had idiosyncratic styles from day one tho. t monk is an extreme example
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
but anyway w/ jazz i was just talking about swing that basically every artist does, where the shit is written out as if it's right on the beat but if a classical musician plays it it sounds stiff and if a jazz artist plays it, it's actually slightly behind or w/e on the beat
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
I'm guilty of this too but comparing rap or rock artists to jazz dudes is always kind of a stretch because most rock or rap dudes are basically pants pooping infants, musically speaking, compared to jazz dudes
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 12 January 2013 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
Except chief keef, of course
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 12 January 2013 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not making an argument about anything musically except how the artist finds a rhythmic pocket on the beat. what is wrong w/ you guys
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
http://media.mediapost.com/images/inline_image/2012/10/11/Hot-pockets-B.jpg
― NINO CARTER, Saturday, 12 January 2013 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
It's an analogy that comes across as a legitimization because it doesn't really fit, cf.
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, January 12, 2013 3:12 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I understand what you're trying to say, deej, but it feels like an overstatement because you don't really need jazz to say it . Rap has been about finding individual styles and flows since day one, or at least day two or three.
― future kendricks (longneck), Saturday, 12 January 2013 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, January 12, 2013 3:30 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
that is not the same thing as what matt is talking about
Except a lot of the record he's just flat out sloppy and it's got nothing to do with that
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 12 January 2013 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno i'm listening to 'diamonds' right now & it sounds pretty in control to me. as we discussed upthread, this isn't like when lil b would just completely disregard the beat
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 22:21 (eleven years ago) link
and as rtc said it's not an either-or thing (control vs. chaos), there's def a chaotic-ness to his style but it's not completely out of control
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
No, but would you really say that about, say, Thelonious Monk? "There's def a chaotic-ness to his style but it's not completely out of control" - a lot seems to hinge on the "completely" there. The sentence would pretty much mean something completely different. I'm all for sloppiness and the will to try new things as great-reasons-for-breakthrough-in-art, but again I'm not sure if the jazz analogy is the best.
― future kendricks (longneck), Saturday, 12 January 2013 22:33 (eleven years ago) link
*sigh*
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 12 January 2013 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
ditto, lol. I'm sympathetic to the cause, I just don't see the great illumination here. I definitely agree that if you gave the same lyrics to, say, Wale, they wouldn't sound equally good. Keef's flow/delivery/off-ness definitely contributes to his shit sounding good. The question is how big of a point this is for you.
― future kendricks (longneck), Saturday, 12 January 2013 22:37 (eleven years ago) link
I'd still love to read something perceptive on Keef's vowels and consonants though. As I've said before, his o and a game is unparalleled in rap - and the drawn out wovels and swallowing of consonants soften the rapping in a really interesting way that runs counter to what is often referred to as his "steely, unemotional style". It also merges with the slowed down trap sound of young chop in a way that brings out its undulation and the way it surges in different ways than, say, Luger or Lil Lodi does. And I'm not only talking about young chop's production here - much the same happens on/with the citgo beat.
― future kendricks (longneck), Sunday, 13 January 2013 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
is lex luger over?
― flopson, Sunday, 13 January 2013 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
http://cdn.fashionista.com/uploads/2013/01/over.png?9d7bd4
― invisible snack (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 13 January 2013 00:39 (eleven years ago) link
Him being a big thing is definitely over but his career is not.
― future kendricks (longneck), Sunday, 13 January 2013 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
what has he even done this/last year?
― flopson, Sunday, 13 January 2013 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
mike will definitely been eating his lunch for a long minute now
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 13 January 2013 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
do you have some examples of this? Jean-Yves Thibaudet's Bill Evans disc is pretty dope=
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 13 January 2013 03:47 (eleven years ago) link
xp right. it's crazy how fast him & waka just disappeared. as much as i loved them the reshuffle was one of my favourite things about rap this year, not that they were replaced by anything so fundamentally different but it definitely feels like someone cracked open a window after the oversaturation of that sound the past 2 years
― flopson, Sunday, 13 January 2013 03:53 (eleven years ago) link
― flopson, Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:45 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Luger_discography#2012
He has been pretty busy it seems. Not too many huge hits but quite a few bangers in there.
― future kendricks (longneck), Sunday, 13 January 2013 10:03 (eleven years ago) link
ya, not bad. crazy that he only produced one juicy j song this year (if that`s true)
― flopson, Sunday, 13 January 2013 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
deej can you ysi me chi bangin comps if u got any?
hit me on teh google chat
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
i think i added u ages ago but i never see u on? sent u a msg i think
― flopson, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
first initial last name at gee mail dot com
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
ya thats the 1, weird
― flopson, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.complex.com/music/2013/01/chief-keef-taken-into-custody-by-chicago-police
http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/CHANNEL_IMAGES/MUSIC/2013/01/content/keef.jpg
― Chief Duff (Eazy), Tuesday, 15 January 2013 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
simonandfatfunkel ...
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 15 January 2013 23:15 (eleven years ago) link
first time pitchfork has actually sent someone to jail?
― keef qua keef (Jordan), Tuesday, 15 January 2013 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
I was thinking: Vice almost did McAffee in, now Pitchfork does Keef in...
― Chief Duff (Eazy), Tuesday, 15 January 2013 23:34 (eleven years ago) link
omg @ pitchfork
― flopson, Tuesday, 15 January 2013 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
this was clearly a really stupid decision by pitchfork but it also shows how reckless the super hands off approach that keef's people have with him is
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 15 January 2013 23:48 (eleven years ago) link
avoiding Pepsi-ready timidity comes at a cost, I suppose
― some dude, Tuesday, 15 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
how do you think a 'hands on' approach would work, exactly
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:07 (eleven years ago) link
i mean i know it's way more fun to just be like, "oh the adults around him are just bad people" but that really doesn't quite capture it
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
on a purely mercenary level, they're inept
― let's go do some crimes (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:10 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think they're bad people, but i think based on your piece that the people around him can do a better job of helping him not sabotage his career. throwing your hands up and going "eh, he's gonna do the opposite of whatever we say!" isn't a good way to handle things imo
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:11 (eleven years ago) link
who said they're throwing up their hands? they are inept but who exactly COULD step in & manage him? who would he let 'manage' him in the traditional sense?
i feel like this is one of those situations where you think you know what you would do, but it's kind of rich to be sitting back armchair-managing the whole situation w/out observing first hand
and this isn't in any way a defense of his mgr's, i basically think 'trust none' is probably closer to the way a lot of people in the situation are operating
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:13 (eleven years ago) link
saying that the people around him could be doing better is not armchair managing
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
what Pitchfork did was probably far further out of the realm of what music press usually does or should do than anything his management has done
― some dude, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
i mean we're asking someone to run interference on someone else's unprecedented monumentally bad idea
― some dude, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:18 (eleven years ago) link
man you guys really don't respect chief keef's intelligence do you
― da croupier, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:19 (eleven years ago) link
it takes a village to keep a guy from being filmed at a shooting range while on probation
― da croupier, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:21 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:16 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk i think it kind of is when you have this situation.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
I feel like we can at least settle the question of "does Chief Keef do amazingly stupid shit" in light of all this
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:32 (eleven years ago) link
he makes great music & managed to get out of extraordinarily horrible conditions using it, so i give him some credit
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:35 (eleven years ago) link
at least, get partway out
gonna say
― da croupier, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 00:36 (eleven years ago) link
I hope Pitchfork pays for this.
― longneck, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 08:23 (eleven years ago) link
― da croupier, Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:21 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is funny because somehow a village wasn't enough to keep this from happening, like how many people did this decision go through?
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 08:27 (eleven years ago) link
"Hey, how about we take Chief Keef to the shooting range? That would be fun, right?
― longneck, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 08:38 (eleven years ago) link
Elliot Wilson "supports" Keef - and goes after Ciara for sounding like Keef. I'm sure Dawn has some medieval battle gear she can lend Lex for the upcoming, epic battle.
― longneck, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 08:47 (eleven years ago) link
t
― longneck, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 08:49 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmw37bLZKk
― longneck, Wednesday, January 16, 2013 2:23 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― fart the police (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 19:25 (eleven years ago) link
on the one hand, he's 17, it's really kinda that simple, the threat of incarceration seldom seems real enough to a teenager to stop him from doing fun shit especially if it's right there in front of his face and free
OTOH massive, endless lol at anybody mad at Pitchfork about this. I did 3 years supervised probation. Know what I didn't do during those three years? Go to a firing range at all. Know why? The judge told me not to do anything that would lead to me landing in his courtroom again. I was also a kid at the time. If you give a shit about not going to jail and the threat of getting sent there has been put in front of you, you just have to toughen up a little when the good times present themselves, or you can pay the damn piper later
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
the thing is though even if there had never been any legal ramifications, "interview at a gun range" would never have been anything but an awful idea
― some dude, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
It's a great idea if you want people to think you have the social sensitivity of the rich daughter from Native Son
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
sorry that was a little incoherent, what I mean to say is "if you are enjoying this dude, you should take a long, hard look in the mirror and be fucking embarrassed"
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
some dude otm it's like if the angle most people are going for is "oh this kid's nihilism is 4 real and he is a living embodiment of a terrible, violent social environment" it's like...your response is to turn the violence into a gimmick-for-lulz? right
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 19:54 (eleven years ago) link
Right.
― longneck, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:02 (eleven years ago) link
I think there was some quote from the literary clusterfucks thread about everybody being horrible
― for the relief of unbearable space hugs (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
i wasn't really lol'ing at the idea that pitchfork was terrible in all this, it was more just the actual phrase "i hope pitchfork pays for this" was so serious it was just funny to me
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
mostly i feel bad for a sound guy. talk about tough locations to record an interview. xpost.
"if you are enjoying this dude, you should take a long, hard look in the mirror and be fucking embarrassed"
why, do his personal problems vitiate the musicality of his work?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
his personal problems are beside the point; the music he's putting out is stupid garbage
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:46 (eleven years ago) link
well, that's a legit disagreement. i find some of it pretty hypnotic and compelling.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
some people think cucumbers taste better pickled
― NINO CARTER, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
What about it is hypnotic and compelling? What is he saying/doing that you find fascinating? All I here is an ignoramus with the vocabulary of a muffin saying ignorant shit that hundreds of other emcees have expressed much better, only with hook of being a young dude actually on probation rather than a theatrical storyteller
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
we've explained about a hundred times itt
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
i mean, i get it, DJP is not a fan of new street rap. i'm not trying to convince you that you need to hear him. it's obv divisive music for a reason. but you are intentionally provoking ppl who are finding something musically compelling in it
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
oh horrors
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
you're implying that we wouldn't like him as much if he didn't come with the violent backstory. that may be true of some--certainly it's made him a bit more of a media phenom--but I'd like to think it doesn't matter to me. i actually had no idea he was such a fuckup until well after i heard some of his tracks. i admit they took some getting used to, as has a lot of other chi trill stuff like sasha go hard, king louie, etc. if anything i guess i have them some extra time b/c they are from my home town (even though, practically, our life experiences were so different as to put into question whether we were actually raised in the same town in any meaningful sense).
anyway, keef's not a lyricist, obviously. i mean he's not a Lyricist-capital-"A." he's never going to wear that crown. there's not much wordplay in the sense of puns, metaphors, complex internal rhymes, etc.
but i'm not sure a rapper (or any artist) needs to "say" or "express" something _new_ -- if the sounds coming out of their mouth sound good with the production, it doesn't necessarily need to matter.
and his flow is very deliberate, in the sense of being slow with not a ton of rhythmic variation (w/in a song anyway). but there's something subtle and seductive about his minimalist flow. it doesn't signify "old school" or "childlike" as it might with other folks. to me it seems to signify, or just evoke, an occult-like incantation.
but: taste is taste, of course.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't know anything about him when i heard 'don't like' which turned out to be one of the best 5 tracks i heard in 2012. Hate looking at myself in the mirror for a host of reasons, liking chief keef ain't one of them.
― pandemic, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
funny, when i look in the mirror i see chief keef.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
Keef doesn't exist in a vacuum: he's influenced by (and influencing) a bunch of other rap artists that ppl are into, myself included. Fair enough you don't like it but stop acting like it's outrageous people think his music is good.
― tpp, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
I first listened to Chief Keef following a string of links starting with an article about Amor Lilman's Pull Ya Pants Up
― for the relief of unbearable space hugs (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
fwiw I played I Don't Like five times and Pull Ya Pants Up only once
― for the relief of unbearable space hugs (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
somehow I think your fragile egos will survive my opinion that this dude sucks and that ppl supporting him have terrible taste in music
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
well that's just the last straw *gets into spaceship and blasts off never to be seen again*
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
that's that ship i don't like.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:26 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
my #1 album is your least favorite rap artist of 2012 & my #2 is your most favorite rap artist of 2012. lol
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
I can understand how somebody could like his music but you're seriously going with that as the best of 2012?
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
I like all the songs on it, he's one of the most interesting new talents of the year, i listened to it a lot
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
imo there's not really a bad song on it. it is a bit randomly constructed but its some of the most exciting rap out rn IMO
he just said that hopsin "got that real music" on twitter
keef supporters were all wrong, turn around while you still can
― berner herzog (fadanuf4erybody), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
"somehow I think your fragile egos will survive my opinion that this dude sucks and that ppl supporting him have terrible taste in music
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:26 PM (52 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"
damn this is some visceral hate
― berner herzog (fadanuf4erybody), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 22:20 (eleven years ago) link
DJP is from boston fyi
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 22:24 (eleven years ago) link
that is the most hurtful thing anyone has said on this thread ;_;
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
haha i'm just kidding man! i know you are from HSTNGS
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 22:38 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
its some of the most exciting rap out rn IMO
to each his own but the fact that this might be true makes me sad
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
i guess you're not on the "rap is in a really good place right now" bandwagon?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
who is hopsin, is that flopson's rap name
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
There's nothing about this I find interesting in the slightest, but I don't like state-of-the-genre statements like that.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
hopsin is behind this slut shaming eminem biting actionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRVOOwFNp5Uhe also is a favorite rapper of redditors
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
u just got called boston
― for the relief of unbearable space hugs (Austerity Ponies), Thursday, 17 January 2013 14:39 (eleven years ago) link
@DNAinfoCHI: BREAKING: #ChiefKeef gets 60 days in jail. The 17-year-old rapper cried in court and begged for forgiveness
― Chief Duff (Eazy), Thursday, 17 January 2013 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
semi grim lols that this has popped up in a bunch of my media outlets EXCEPT for Pitchfork
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Thursday, 17 January 2013 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
@al_25_: Chief Keef gunna have to make songs like Drake now that he cried in court
― to each his own but (Eazy), Thursday, 17 January 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
dnainfo trynna ether is career lol
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 17 January 2013 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
what is "dnainfo"?
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 17 January 2013 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
local news blog. they have one in NYC too
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 17 January 2013 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
jesus christ crying is a perfectly acceptable reaction to hearing that news
people gotta stop shaming dudes for crying that shit's lame
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Friday, 18 January 2013 01:43 (eleven years ago) link
Dude would shame himself for crying if he weren't the one crying, though.
― to each his own but (Eazy), Friday, 18 January 2013 02:00 (eleven years ago) link
snitchfork
― Ask The Answer Man (sexyDancer), Friday, 18 January 2013 02:22 (eleven years ago) link
I think I saw an afterschool special about this once
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 18 January 2013 14:21 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFudjk_KW3Q
― Three Word Username, Friday, 18 January 2013 14:26 (eleven years ago) link
i wanna apologize for upthread when i said this album is on par with the Travis Porter LP. the Travis Porter album is way way better.
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 14:54 (eleven years ago) link
:-/
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 14:55 (eleven years ago) link
― to each his own but (Eazy), Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
sure but it's an awful attitude to have, regardless
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Friday, 18 January 2013 14:55 (eleven years ago) link
that album was majorly disappointing xp
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 14:56 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:19 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i lol'd
― johnny crunch, Friday, 18 January 2013 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like deej or j0rdan might think i'm hating on Finally Rich to spite them or something but i really wouldn't have listened to it so much if i wasn't trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and hear what they hear in it, and it just sounds worse every time i put it on.
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 14:59 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but you don't like keef's vocal style -- if u've decided he's a priori wack then only the Hits are going to possibly connect w/ you and then inconsistently
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
don't think you're using 'a priori' right there
― 乒乓, Friday, 18 January 2013 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
see i keep expecting to either get used to the vocals or focus more on the production, but neither seems to improve with repeat listens. beats/hooks just ain't strong enough imo.
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
lol i think i started singing "love sosa" in a dream i had last night
last time this happened it was a katy b song
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Friday, 18 January 2013 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
"love sosa" isn't too far off of katy b as a rap song
― J0rdan S., Friday, 18 January 2013 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
beats/hooks just ain't strong enough imo.
― some dude, Friday, January 18, 2013 11:01 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk i dont get this at all
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
xp how?
― lex pretend, Friday, 18 January 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
"Love Sosa" is such a drab, loathsome song. keep hearing about his inspiring rags-to-riches story and how celebratory the album is and then i hear this asshole chanting "god y'all some broke boys."
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
oh no, not a rapper taunting others for being broke
― J0rdan S., Friday, 18 January 2013 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
the sentiment's not rare sure but that phrase just rings in my head as a total nadir of the whole phenomenon
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
i dont get why keef does all the shit other rappers do but for him it sets everyone against him
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
"OMG a rapper called them broke, how mean!"
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 17:29 (eleven years ago) link
no one calls slick rick an asshole for stunting in gold necklaces like wtf
maybe it's the vampire accent that makes it seem especially villainous
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 17:31 (eleven years ago) link
lol deej slick rick is an amazing storyteller. people only say "who gives a shit about (how broke your rivals are, how much product you moved, how many people you shot)" when the person telling the story seems incapable of telling the story in an interesting or compelling or even mildly diverting way. you know, like chief keef.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 18 January 2013 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
can we nip this Slick Rick digression in the bud right now, I don't need a mental image of Chief Keef hollering his way through three bars of "Children's Story"
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, January 18, 2013 11:45 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
so once again the argument falls to ... you don't like the music. nothing to do w/ his perceived moral failings
OMG MOP are so mean for sticking people up!
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
GAWD Y'ALL SOME BLOKE BOYS
― longneck, Friday, 18 January 2013 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
(please carry on, gentlemen)
― longneck, Friday, 18 January 2013 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
deej why do you think people have a different reaction to this than Slick Rick/MOP/whomever? apart from "a priori" prejudice
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
so once again the argument falls to ... you don't like the music.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:16 (eleven years ago) link
I am not sure anyone is trying to make an argument deeper than "this music is as close to objectively terrible as you can get" so I don't think that is as much of an "GOTCHA" summation as you are trying to make it out to be
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
'objectively terrible' is a bullshit phrase dan, come on
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
I don't like the music, but I don't like him either. I find nothing compelling or likeable about him. Slick Rick otoh...
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
haha THAT'S your takeaway from that post? are you fucking kidding me
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
do you care if he taunts broke enemies
― J0rdan S., Friday, 18 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
is it that offensive that DJP, some dude, and aero don't like this dude? I mean I completely disagree w/ them on Rick Ross, but based on what I've heard of Keef, I agree. Yeah, they might be arguing a little 'harshly' about it, but I know of one person itt who does that regularly.
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 18 January 2013 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
making an argument that your POV is 'close to objectively true' is fucking stupid, sorry
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
it's also trolling, but let's continue this
― J0rdan S., Friday, 18 January 2013 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
don't feel that they're trolling at all, unless "not liking" something constitutes trolling. This isn't a Chief Keef "best track" poll or something where it is geared towards fans only.
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 18 January 2013 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
n/m I see you were replying to deej
they are like a good cop bad cop tag-team of earnestness->disengenuousness arguing on bad faith
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
ha
― J0rdan S., Friday, 18 January 2013 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
I really don't think I'm the fucking stupid one here, considering that everyone on this board believes that opinions are subjective and therefore "objectively terrible" is a unicorn. I wrote a strongly held subjective opinion and you are reacting to it as if an objective one could actually exist, which makes me think that one of the reasons you find Chief Keef so enthralling is a total inability to deduce nuance.
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
― NINO CARTER, Friday, January 18, 2013 1:22 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i'm not trying to convince them to like him, as i've said before (well, i think Some Dude should b/c its in the same wheelhouse he's comfortable with -- that is why i find his concern abt 'broke boys' kind of weird)
but they were asking me
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
at any rate, I thought you'd be madder about the arguments where I was obliquely accusing the Chief Keef boosters of wallowing in a modern minstrel show but I guess that's not worth getting mad about, just when someone uses the word "objective"
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:31 (eleven years ago) link
actually I take that back; there was stuff I recognize as skill and talent going on in minstrel shows
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not gonna pretend there's some huge philosophical gulf between the Keef line and 2 Chainz saying "me and broke broke we don't get along" in a song i love, i'm just saying i despise "Love Sosa" as a piece of music so that line is kind of the icing on the cake made of shit
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
the icing on the cake made of shit
awesome
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 18 January 2013 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
i like a lot of aggressive regional thug type rap, and i hate a lot of it, just like i love and hate lots of any genre of music that interests me. comes down to execution, and in this case i think the execution is clumsy and dull.
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
but in general soulja boy/max b mumblecore rap has never been my bag
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, January 18, 2013 1:31 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that argument presumes that we dont wade thru 100s & 100s of 'regional thug' videos regularly & find plenty of them horrible/boring despite factoring in every possible thug cliche. obviously, there's something here that some of us like outside of that. so whether or not there's a minstel show aspect to his appeal (obv there is w/ some fans as ever) is beside the pt because he's doing something interesting that say ace hood is not
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
To call something 'objectively bad' and then when called on it say that it's your subjective opinion that its objectively bad kinda deprives the word 'objective' of whatever meaning it might of had. If you don't like it just say you don't like it, why make the greater claim of it being bad, and then backtrack into 'when I say objectively bad, what I am saying is just my opinion but strongly worded'
― Regional Tug (irrational), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
you literally can't read
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
That's probably true.
― Regional Tug (irrational), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
Did anyone else have difficulty interpreting what I meant with that post? I will admit to trying to be as compressed as possible with the sentiment I was attempting to convey but I didn't think it was a deliberately misleading statement
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:09 (eleven years ago) link
my other option was "asymptotically approaching 'objectively bad'" but I figured that wouldn't fly
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
can we get Hongro in here
― Influential Acid Jazz Pioneer (crüt), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
I think my issue with that (and I'm willing to grant it could just be my lack of conceptual background or understanding) is that its just another way of saying it's objectively bad. I have a hard time wrapping my head around what it would be for something to get close to objectovely bad if the concept is one that is something that is as conceptually problematic (or unicorny) as it is. But this is digression, I'll just assume I misuderstood.
― Regional Tug (irrational), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
DJ - you must realise that in the context of a disagreement what you said was bound to be misinterpreted.
― tsrobodo, Friday, 18 January 2013 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
are you talking to djdee or djpee
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
irrational is completely otm, dan just wants to emphatically say he hates this & thinks that it's so bad that there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e
if he wants to continue spending his time weighing in by mentioning that he doesnt like it 500 diff ways thats on him
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
Just the other day I was called "cancer" for saying I liked Finally Rich and not laughing at Keef getting arrested. True story.
― longneck, Friday, 18 January 2013 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
^^^ there are a lot of assjacks like this, and they should all die in a fire. regardless of what you think of a dude's mistake, I get sick of these statements. IE the dude on my friend's FB who said "nobody should care about this guy" when Rick Ross was having seizures.
― NINO CARTER, Friday, 18 January 2013 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
"mistake" = "music"
"irrational is completely otm" is a pretty wonderful phrase, gotta say
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e
there's no "objectively bad" and there's no "i am completely able to self-analyze my enjoyment of this music and yep, there's no extra musical factors at play"
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
generally speaking I agree with the proposition that music appreciation is subjective but arguing that Chief Keef can rap is like saying D - F# - A constitutes a C major scale. OTM that we need Geir in here because he is a better mc than Chief Keef
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 18 January 2013 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
I think we can all agree on one thing ... chief keef, objectively, is ... young
― 乒乓, Friday, 18 January 2013 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
pshhhh compared to lil romeo in his prime dude sounds so OLD
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
i fucking love the travis porter album and was shocked to see no-one else nominated it for the ilx poll. my #2 most listened to album of the year.
― tpp, Friday, 18 January 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i left it out of my year-end list but if i did it over i'd put it in there
― some dude, Friday, 18 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
I put it on mine as a last minute revision. It was disappointing but still pretty good.
― longneck, Friday, 18 January 2013 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 18, 2013 2:49 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
no one is saying the latter part
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
nice false dichotomy tho
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 18 January 2013 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, January 18, 2013 2:53 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
depends on what ur looking for in a rapper obv
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 00:11 (eleven years ago) link
dan has strong opinions and voices them strongly and that's cool w/ me.
he is also v. intelligent so i kind of assume that he realizes that it is possible some people actually like his music and aren't just indulging in some kind of fetishization of an imagined "authenticity" or something. i think he just hates the music so much he has a hard time imagining this.
minstrel show analogy is kind of off and anyway a lot of minstrel music and humor is great. but that's another thread.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 19 January 2013 00:55 (eleven years ago) link
this isn't quite true but i guess i just like of love sosa as a kind of ambient track with some compelling wordless vocals or something.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 19 January 2013 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
think of
add dichotomy to the list of terms you've missed used here
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, 19 January 2013 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
what are you saying with "there must be extra-musical reasons we enjoy it, which he's wrong about, but w/e" then?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, 19 January 2013 01:58 (eleven years ago) link
I like that you laughed at your own zing.
― Regional Tug (irrational), Saturday, 19 January 2013 04:43 (eleven years ago) link
So basically if I'm looking for the inability to rap in a rapper, fulfilling that is enough to qualify a rapper as good.
― tsrobodo, Saturday, 19 January 2013 04:51 (eleven years ago) link
GD was laughing at the irony of his own failure to properly type the word "misused," clearly
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Saturday, 19 January 2013 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, January 19, 2013 1:58 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
He meant that dan implies that deej couldn't like it without extra-musical factors (because musically it's so "objectively" bad), which he disagrees with.
He's not saying that there are no extra-musical factors at all.
I agree with you that no-one can really say confidently "I am completely able to self-analyze my enjoyment of this music and yep, there's no extra musical factors at play", but I think one can say confidently "I like this music as music, whether or not extra-musical factors are also at play".
― Tim F, Saturday, 19 January 2013 04:57 (eleven years ago) link
He's the rap game Mies van der Rohe: no ornamentation, no gargoyles, no fancy parapets.
― to each his own but (Eazy), Saturday, 19 January 2013 05:38 (eleven years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 18, 2013 7:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
eh i just meant that you were assuming that if i disagreed w/ dan than i must mean the opposite of dan which is the 'false dichotomy'
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, January 18, 2013 6:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it doesnt seem very productive.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 06:04 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, January 18, 2013 6:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
if ur not listening to the words imo u kinda 'miss the point'
noz made a good argument for this applying to asap but i think the words are more central to keef's appeal despite the opinions of h8rs
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 06:05 (eleven years ago) link
def. a good argument for ASAP. I think even for haters ck would be a lot harder to background.
― Tim F, Saturday, 19 January 2013 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
every ace hood / young chop song is proof that keef is not a beats-only phenomenon
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 07:10 (eleven years ago) link
seriously that ace hood record is teh worst
i didn't say he was a beats-only phenomenon, just that what's compelling about his rapping has more to do with the sound of the words than their sense.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 19 January 2013 07:23 (eleven years ago) link
Yah I disagree...the beats-only thing is unrelated
I think "i gets lots of commas / I can fuck your mama" is important to liking this for me personally
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 11:39 (eleven years ago) link
Finally MILF
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Saturday, 19 January 2013 11:49 (eleven years ago) link
"i gets lots of commas / I can fuck your mama”
I love how you cling to this one semi-clever keef line like an orphan standing in the rain, clutching a tattered photograph of his mum while looking into the department store window display
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 19 January 2013 15:15 (eleven years ago) link
it barely even works, even a billionaire only has 3 commas
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Saturday, 19 January 2013 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
maybe he writes really long sentences
― President Keyes, Saturday, 19 January 2013 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
i got lots of commas / david foster wallace
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Saturday, 19 January 2013 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, January 19, 2013 9:15 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
jesus christ dudes i cant even rely on an example more than once w/out you guys coming up w/ some reason that i'm like flailing to justify liking something that OBVIOUSLY MUST BE HORRIBLE-- no, the entire verse is good. its the fucking dozens put to song & is no worse than 1000s of tracks w/in that style. Obviously how he delivers them--flow, melody, cadence--is key to why lyric that look plain on paper are good. but 'god yall some broke boys' is a great line too.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
sends chills down my spine it does
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, 19 January 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
who said anything about chills down the spine? im just talking about whether ppl care about the lyrics, as in, the lyrics being a part of what makes the song 'work'. 'low end or no end,' 'now that boy slumped over, they do it all for sosa,' it's all of a piece, idk why someone would get something out of this if they're pretending the lyrics arent there
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
should be 'o end or no end,' lol, he's not from the low end
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
then it's not a great line, it's a line. no need to oversell it. you think he's effective, cool, wish I did.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, 19 January 2013 18:44 (eleven years ago) link
it is a funny line its just not going to stand up to 100 posts of scrutiny by ppl already dead set against it
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know why accusing other people of being predisposed to disliking Chief Keef is this self-evident and important thing to harp on if saying you're predisposed to liking Chief Keef isn't also fair game
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
no doubt. it's just...that's one of his best lines? cleverness, flow, insight, charisma...he just seems average at best. the beats are generic. i'm trying to see what you see in him and I just don't. oh well.xp
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:05 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's also funny that ppl who say he's a bad lyricist are rockists, clinging to old, outdated definitions of hip hop, but the ppl who appreciate it strictly on sonic/rhythmic/vibe terms and enjoy it also aren't enjoying it in the ”right way”
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
i don't wanna get into the minstrelsy thing either, but I think there's an interesting double standard wrt to the pass given to rappers like Keef and the reaction same people have towards indie/backpacker/"conscious" rappers
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:31 (eleven years ago) link
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:26 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://scienceblogs.com/thoughtfulanimal/wp-content/blogs.dir/351/files/2012/04/i-534ec9e4fe422e37f2c7b9b58810e809-operation%20game.jpg
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
i can't disagree w/ people who like the song?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
this isnt about 'taking sides'
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
i got lots of commas / I rap like Tuomas
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 19 January 2013 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
Obviously I lolled
― Bel-Air the Fresh Prince, sitting in a chair (DJP), Saturday, 19 January 2013 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
I can fuck Tuomas / not braggin just honest
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Saturday, 19 January 2013 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
Finnishly Rich
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 19 January 2013 22:05 (eleven years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, January 19, 2013 1:31 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's only "interesting" if you start from the assumption that there's nothing else in CK's music to sustain interest!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 19 January 2013 22:48 (eleven years ago) link
i mean jeez people is it possible to just agree to disagree about his music? do you have to insinuate that we get our jollies on keef's "realness" as a chicago gang banger or something?
like i said i had no idea of the backstory before i heard (some of) the music. i just found it weirdly intense and compelling sonically. if you think i'm a chump b/c the music is bad, then whatever. that's OK. but this need to search for *other* reasons, and thus to invalidate those who disagree with you, is... i dunno it just seems like waste of thought, honestly.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 19 January 2013 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
it's plenty possible. it's also very worth ~thinking hard about~ how a lotta white dudes whose personal investment in/experience with the sorts of environments described by e.g. chief keef is strictly optative i.e. they're not from the neighborhoods whose stories they're most interested in, they don't have any relatives in the projects, if they care about people in the projects then that's terrific but wow it is ~kinda odd~ how very aggro white rap heads get about their images of black men, how their tastes seem so often to run to a violent/drug-related tropes, and how largely uninterested they seem in other images of black men being presented in the art they consume/write about/rep for: how their preference, in what they choose to write/talk/think about, seems strongly toward the image of a young black man as a guy who carries a firearm, takes and/or deals drugs, and thinks very little of women. when the reality of the black experience is broad and various and diverse, but you wouldn't really know that from the preference a whole lot of white dudes seem broadly to have for "hard"/"authentic"/w/e rap that describes a reality which is, in fact, only a segment of that reality. I could be 100% wrong about this, I'm nobody's expert on race, but that's always how this shit feels to me. generally speaking I think it's super-fair, given the long history of white americans and their tastes in black art, to ask sometimes: "are you projecting your preconceptions of black realities onto this stuff and pronouncing it good because it serves them back to you?"
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 20 January 2013 04:44 (eleven years ago) link
^thisreally found it ~interesting~ when ethan (white guy) would mercilessly clown nate (white guy) for his taste in hip hop. and maybe i'm just missing the threads, but it's ~interesting~ that there's basically zero discussion of non-"thug"/"gangsta" non-mainstream hip hop on this board.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 04:53 (eleven years ago) link
you left out half of my equation ie the dismissal/contempt of backpacker/conscious rap
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 04:55 (eleven years ago) link
OT a bit but the this strain of shit-talking lyrics (i fuck your mom/gf, haha you're poor) comes off one way when you listen to a recording, and another way live. i've been to shows of "up n coming" rappers who use this as their main schtick and the crowd is SILENT. it's awkward. "yeah you fucked my girl!! yes love this guy!!" never happens, respect to anyone who can win a crowd over with that.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 05:01 (eleven years ago) link
that there's basically zero discussion of non-"thug"/"gangsta" non-mainstream hip hop on this board.― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, January 19, 2013 11:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, January 19, 2013 11:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
guess you really don't go to the rap threads huh
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 05:51 (eleven years ago) link
which underground conscious rap would you rather see covered?
― berner herzog (fadanuf4erybody), Sunday, 20 January 2013 06:10 (eleven years ago) link
i mean a big reason that stuff isn't talked about as much is because a lot of it hit a fuckin wall after 2006 or 2007. unless you're really dead set on digging through the endless '90s NY pastiches or Blowed/Hiero/now Odd Future-derivative stuff from the West, there both isn't as much interesting-sounding underground shit AND less people willing to make that dig (which i think is rooted in some people being ashamed of their former status as hiphopinfinity-ass underground fans before the big shift toward rap poptimism but that's its own thing).
but i mean interesting stuff does exist, so you wanna talk about the underachievers or b l a c k i e or pyramid vritra or whatever the fuck, i mean knock yourself out, i'd like to see discussion of that music (and a lot of it DOES get covered in the rolling rap threads or at least it has in the couple months i've been here, like going off what's said you'd think it's just endless drill tapes and post-brick squad shit when that's really not the case)
― berner herzog (fadanuf4erybody), Sunday, 20 January 2013 06:16 (eleven years ago) link
(i am drunk btw so my apologies if that doesn't cohere)
Or Granny just sees Kendrick, Action Bronson, Danny Brown, Yelawolf, Big KRIT, Ty$, Shabazz Palaces, Angel Haze and like 40000 other ILX-goon-approved artists as "gangstas" and "thugs"
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 06:38 (eleven years ago) link
And also avowed street rap diehard D-40 does dominate the convo with his ALL YOUTUBE EVERYTHING shenanigans, so you may have missed me riding for Serengeti or w/e but it happens
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 06:40 (eleven years ago) link
calm down bitches, answer is "maybe i'm just missing threads". really got turned off by the trifeization of hiphop discussion on ILM 5 yrs ago or whenever and haven't delved into it much.there's 1 thread on MURS started in 2003 by, you guessed it, Nate P. No Oddisee thread, barely a post mentioning him. I just find that odd for a board that has a thread on virtually everything. hip hop prob more than any other genre gets tied up in notions of cool still. feel like people screen out stuff A PRIORI if it has even an inkling of perceived coffeshop-chicks-and-white-dudes appeal.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 07:17 (eleven years ago) link
and the amount of derision directed towards proponents of those artists makes me think it's less "i really can't stand that coffeeshop chick vibe shit" and more "i really can't stand being seen as someone who would like this shit". hip hop as an identity badge, i'm not like THOSE white people, i'm hipper than hipsters.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 07:24 (eleven years ago) link
think for me this all comes down to a) i thought ethan was a douchey bully caught up in narcissism of small differences and b) the overt white racists I have known LOVED thug rap
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 07:29 (eleven years ago) link
can u rly use 'a priori' like that
― attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Sunday, 20 January 2013 08:29 (eleven years ago) link
ethan was the best poster ilm ever had
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 20 January 2013 08:35 (eleven years ago) link
but if it makes you feel any better, he would probably be calling me and deej clowns for riding for keef. or probably has somewhere else.
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 20 January 2013 08:36 (eleven years ago) link
Ethan wasn't at all an all thug rap all the time guy, also.
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2013 09:56 (eleven years ago) link
r.i.p. ethan
― attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Sunday, 20 January 2013 13:11 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:40 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:41 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
with all due respect man, I've seen you make this point again and again so I feel like I have to say that, there's something about the way you respond to people that does make it seems like you're taking sides - even when you largely agree with the poster you're responding to and only disagreeing over a small point!
like you write a lot about how you are frustrated with the discourse that surrounds goon threads but I think a lot of posters are also a lil' bit frustrated with the hard tone you take, it really does seem like when you advance your opinions that only your opinion is valid and ought to be the domineering filter through which the conversation takes place. I think there are other ways for you to express your 'disagreements' that would feel a lot more inclusive and less combative and would probably serve to temper the discourse.
― 乒乓, Sunday, 20 January 2013 14:06 (eleven years ago) link
Good post aerosmith, I've had those thoughts about myself at times
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 20 January 2013 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
dayo otm. congrats on developing a discernible posting style tho.
― The Reverend, Sunday, 20 January 2013 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
this shit is bonkers guys
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
1. if you want to make it personal, i think anyone who's paid attention to what i listen to on this board knows that my taste in black music is not only 'thug rap.' ive got a collection of 70s disco, 80s house, 90s house on vinyl, i am an avid jazz fan, & i love R&B. i have a pretty wide range of tastes w/in 'black music' as a whole.
2. within rap i'd say that the board's bias (and my own) is more a defensive posture about 'LCD' rap which is NOT solely 'thug rap' at all -- if anything, i've been pretty dismissive of a fair amount of 'thug rap' i find generic (i.e. alley boy). And yeah, the LCD-rap defense can go overboard (as any fandom can) i remember lightly clowning jordan for repping for a completely random youtube find of some '09 swag rapper as being so dope when it was obv pretty much a 'random rap' (obscure version of a more popular artist) type track, but for the most part, the board's general stance as far as I can tell is in response to a wide-ranging middlebrow rap fandom that thinks jcole & wale are the 'real lyricists' or w/e.
3. My actual personal bias is partly 'defend LCD' like the rest of the thread's posters, with a privileging of the pop-rap era that came up when i was in high school, when 75% of the billboard charts were rap or rap-R&B, when hip-hop was still 'street' but had a very open aesthetic style, appealed more to women & was largely social music, as opposed to the 'ibiza bloodfarts' (registered whiney trademark) of today's pop charts, and also the rappers...
3. ...had strong styles. which leads to my 3rd point, which is that more than how 'hood' someone is what interests me (and, i imagine, many of the people here) is strong personalities/ personal rap styles. It should also be noted that for the most part Which is why I think Alley Boy is boring & Chief keef is dope. rappers used to have distinctive styles. DMX did not have a conventional rap style. mystikal did not have a conventional rap style.
4. the easiest way to find rappers w/ strong styles like that is generally through street rap. the tendency is that the stuff that is the most 'problematic,' the most at-street-level, does seem to be where a lot of the strong personalities emerge. This isn't always true (cf MF Doom) and there are bajillions of wack generic rappers 'at street level' but the core original audience of rap music tends to be the real 'tastemaker' when it comes to what rappers are interesting, and i find that listening to those audiences often means you're finding out about more distinctive artists.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
i fucked up a c+P in #3 but hopefully you guys can work out what i meant
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
― 乒乓, Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:06 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you're going to have to parse for me what makes me saying 'i think it's this way not that way' different from when everyone else does it.
i will say that if i sound combatative it's because of how consensus around here can get ironclad & feel impossible to break, like, i registered disagreement about the dawn richard tape & everyone's immediately dismissive until tim & matt dc weigh in w/ concerns. i mean, they obv did so w/ more nuance which is fine, but i dont think my concerns were automatically dismissable
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
i also post about dom kennedy, uptown xo, chance the rapper, etc. none of which are really 'thug rap'
i mean Al was dismissing me the other day for even indicating i was softening on the joey badass thing
i will say that i tend to have an aversion to stuff that sounds particularly RETRO, and i've never been into weird/IDM-y rap music like that, at least not since i was 19 & thought anti-pop consortium were, like, totally groundbreaking
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
the tendency is that the stuff that is the most 'problematic,' the most at-street-level, does seem to be where a lot of the strong personalities emerge.
this is an extremely dubious assertion & says more about the very thing I'm talking about (why do white rap listeners find "street"/"problematic" personalities "strong" - why does the former tend to code as the latter for them?) than it does about any "this just seems to be the correlation"
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 20 January 2013 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
i am an avid jazz fan
http://cml.music.utexas.edu/assets/SheetMusic/_resampled/SetWidth620-clarinet-hemiola-baby.png
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
Its a tendency, not a rule, aero, although it seems there is plenty of historical precedent. Imo its a pure numbers game... If ur a kid growing up in the burbs youre not growing up immersed in hip hop culture
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
I think pretty much any apparent correlation between taste and social archetype can look problematic if you want to frame it as such, and fans of street rap have been over-pathologised by the rock critic establishment way too often over the past twenty five years for me to put too much stock in such arguments. Also it's one of the nastiest legit-sounding ad hominem tactics that crops up on ILM (see also frank kogan and teen pop).
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
within rap i'd say that the board's bias (and my own) is more a defensive posture about 'LCD' rap which is NOT solely 'thug rap' at all -- if anything, i've been pretty dismissive of a fair amount of 'thug rap' i find generic (i.e. alley boy).
this is why i don't pay attention to rap threads. they seem limited because of being ground in this reactionism, ie they're more about Music than music. i don't understand the need to defend LCD, other than to distance oneself from corny white guys who go on about true hiphop or w/e. there's a lot of 'clowning' on people, which afaik doesn't really happen w/discussions of other genres.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
Also aero youre willfully misrepresenting what I said, and the distinction I made between keef and say alley boy, or t.i. vs shawty lo, or say king louie v. The 1000s of chicago rapper vids I got sent daily (many of which are scarily "real" but lack artfulness)
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
@ GD its not about clowning backpackers, its that we actually, u know, enjoy songs like swag surfin and laffy taffy
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
but you kinda switched what you enjoyed after getting clowned a lot, that's how it seems to me. you were just saying you (lightly) clowned jordan for liking something. i just find it to be an environment that isn't conducive to liking music that doesn't fit into a limited mold.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
I clowned him for liking something that lacked originality, not that wasnt sufficiently hood
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
Haha granny perhaps you never hung out on the dance music threads when vahid was in full flight.
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
I "switched my enjoyment" from anti pop consortium when I realized that I was fetishizing some abstract and fictional notion of "progress" that was really about differentiating myself from my peers than it was actually really caring abt the music
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
if an artist is "street" or "LCD", it's gonna get repped for or at least talked about. if not, most likely won't be. it's more about the image you're trying to put out (I am a type of person who enjoys this type of rap) rather than the music itself.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
but now you're differentiating yourself from people who think Wale is where lyricism is at
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
if not, most likely won't be.
this just isn't true at all
rap threads have always been part of a larger conversation that takes place on rap blogs, in comment sections and on twitter
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
Omg im differentiating myself, super problematic
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
when middlebrow rap fandom moves onto Chief Keef type shit, will you ditch it to go and enjoy something else that doesn't have that stink on it?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
when you're over age 22, yeah I think it's problematic but hey enjoy the never-ending quest
Yeah definitely, I would totallllly LOVE stalley if his fans werent nerds! *rolls eyes like slot machine*
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
there's a lot of 'clowning' on people, which afaik doesn't really happen w/discussions of other genres.
its almost like the culture that we're celebrating is rooted in cutting and the dozens and lyrical battles
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
ilm's rap taste (if there is such a thing) accepts plenty of middlebrow stuff, by the way. not all of it, but that characterization is backwards as hell.
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
i do honestly think the goon threads should be a little more open to the good backpacky stuff that's poppin right now (Homeboy Sandman, Serengeti, Oh No, Angel Haze) but its partially my fault for not really posting that stuff as often as I should
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
Even me dissing wale is a bit wrong... I wrote a positive review of his show for the tribune last year, and havr defended a portion of his catalog. The idea im rejecting isnt the artist as much as it is the misguided/rockist thinking that led me to value a flawed concept like "progressive" bc anti pop consortium made some "difficult" material
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
angel haze has her own thread that stays popping
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
Antipop Consortium is great, fuck your prog guilt
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
Lol. I still like "bubbles" that song was a banger
Again tho, what im trying to say its not a critique of the artist, its a critique of the reasoning behind it
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
*behind championing it
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
ffwd to 0:28 and tell me this shit doesnt sla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00W9zT1rZs4
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
p
that shit sla
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
Haha snap
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, January 20, 2013 1:30 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
By the time middlebrow rap fandom moves onto Chief Keef type shit, Chief Keef type shit will be old hat and no longer cutting edge and someone else we've never heard of yet will be doing more exciting things that are more deserving of our attention.
― The Reverend, Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
I realize this but it comes off as mean (w/o the playfulness/cleverness of the template) and rooted in self doubt. also, techno threads aren't filled w/minimalists posts, jazz threads aren't trade offs of improvs on a theme.
the jazz threads are cool, because it's pretty much a dead artform, no longer mainstream popular, def not among youth. threads are about the music w/lil else getting in the way (found it odd that there was so much "spiritual hat" jazz in the albums poll, but makes sense due to the taste backgrounds of a lot of posters. hiphop is too current, still too tied up coolness identity and affectations.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
Techno threads on ILX terrible tho
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
Provocative post: its kind of weird that a white person like aero could assert that any white fans of a particular black artist must be racist for liking that artist
^^^ if I made this argument sincerely, it would be the equivalent of what aero is arguing here
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
Ok, reddit
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 20 January 2013 22:57 (eleven years ago) link
thats not a reverse racism argument at all, thats what you mean
im talking about a white person deciding that a particular black person, a human being, embodies a stereotype
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 20 January 2013 23:04 (eleven years ago) link
*if thats what you mean
I think the only person here who has made such an argument is Dan.
― The Reverend, Sunday, 20 January 2013 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
I think if you're honest about what art does it shouldn't be surprising that the street-level stuff is better -- i.e. art tries to make up the difference between our infinite, expansive feelings and finite, cramped realities. And ghetto/street life is pretty cramped and finite -- so the music has a bigger infinity to traverse so to speak, more to make up for, more emotional work to do in order to be redemptive.
― onlydarkness.com, Monday, 21 January 2013 00:58 (eleven years ago) link
Or you can think about it economically, in terms of skill development -- I remember Dave Van Ronk recounting a conversation where somebody was musing: why are so many famous blues guitarists blind black men from the South? I mean isn't that uncanny? perhaps suspect? indicative of an audience fetish?
Dave's rejoinder: if you were a blind black man from the South prior to WWII how else would you make a living?
Within a demographic, an economic decision will be made more often if there's a smaller opportunity cost. And, within a demographic, if there are a disproportionate number of say rappers, there will also be a disproportionate number of GOOD rappers!
― onlydarkness.com, Monday, 21 January 2013 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
provocative post: poor people make better music. They have to, because their lives are worse.
― onlydarkness.com, Monday, 21 January 2013 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
for 'poor' above feel free to sub in crazy, alienated, lonely, messianic, high, prone to fits -- anything really as long as you don't wanna feel complicit
― onlydarkness.com, Monday, 21 January 2013 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
very provocative
― J0rdan S., Monday, 21 January 2013 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
btw "projecting your preconceptions of x onto this stuff and pronouncing it good because it serves them back to you" is how *any* idea about *anything* is formed!
Good to remember in terms of human psychology sure but imo not a particularly effective approach to examining one's conscience re: enjoyment of street rap ---
― onlydarkness.com, Monday, 21 January 2013 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't sneak NWA & 2 Live Crew into my room by shoving them down the front of my pants to sit here and listen to this shit
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 January 2013 02:57 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.vice.com/read/stories-you-wont-hear-while-shopping-for-music-online-day-one
There wasn’t a ton of music to organize, but for some reason all of the fuckheads loved pulling out 2 Live Crew’s As Nasty As They Wanna Be CDs from the section to rub on their JNCO jeans covered genitals and just lay the discs back on the top of the section like they’re returning a fucking cafeteria tray.
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 21 January 2013 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
GD how many hundreds of posts are you going to spend on this board whining about the two times a decade ago that you got made fun of by a guy who stopped posting here 3 years ago? get the fuck over it.
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 07:04 (eleven years ago) link
http://media.tumblr.com/2e149d09a388e6e132d3caf8aa2bfe1a/tumblr_inline_mf7xx3GEDI1ry4qim.gif
― J0rdan S., Monday, 21 January 2013 07:09 (eleven years ago) link
Can we have a button for posting that gif
― Tim F, Monday, 21 January 2013 07:12 (eleven years ago) link
this is not what happened at all btw, i just called bullshit on your comparison between joey badass's nostalgic rap and frankie beverly's r&b that people became nostalgic for decades later
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 07:12 (eleven years ago) link
Wow, you people are the worst.
― tsrobodo, Monday, 21 January 2013 07:55 (eleven years ago) link
Al, I could see how you would just love for that to be the case for me but there's nothing for me to "get over" other than the fact that his strain of douchery is still alive here, as so excellently demonstrated by you
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2013 08:08 (eleven years ago) link
one of the few hiphop posters here apparently views him as GOAT, maybe that has more to do w/me not being able to "get over hit" than whatever killer zing he unleashed my way in '04
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2013 08:14 (eleven years ago) link
I miss the golden age of ethan and strongo hardmanning.
― Tim F, Monday, 21 January 2013 08:52 (eleven years ago) link
Hardman cheerleaders who never do hardmanning themselves are the lamest, though
― lex pretend, Monday, 21 January 2013 11:08 (eleven years ago) link
Huh is that directed at me then
― Tim F, Monday, 21 January 2013 11:39 (eleven years ago) link
Ha no it was meant generally but it does actually apply there, lol
No this dates back to the Kogan days, the worst people weren't the attn-seeking cunts but the enablers who'd only post snide "lol"s and act like they weren't part of the problem
― lex pretend, Monday, 21 January 2013 11:45 (eleven years ago) link
GD, work your ethan issues out elsewhere. he's on facebook, write him a long letter and let it all out. bringing him up here on a monthly basis, over and over and over, is pointless.
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 12:21 (eleven years ago) link
Ah, I never supported the bullshit on the Hillary duff thread. But there's hardmanning andhardmanning.
― Tim F, Monday, 21 January 2013 12:29 (eleven years ago) link
O_O
http://www.tmz.com/2013/01/21/chief-keef-baby-mama-lawsuit-grade-school-young-girl/
― fuck wit' lysandre day (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 21 January 2013 13:12 (eleven years ago) link
rap game tracy jordan
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 13:33 (eleven years ago) link
bringing him up here on a monthly basis, over and over and over, is pointless.
I guess you're right because people here still act like his disciples no matter what
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
ethan basically runs ilx like in goodfellas when they go to prison, he's on facebook cutting up garlic with a razor blade and frying up veal chops while sending messages to deej and j0rdan on the outside
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
ehh this facebook...its not so bad
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
and maybe i'm wrong that that strain of clowning assholeness that still permeates hiphop discussion here stems from him. maybe it's endemic to internet hiphop discussion. after all, people are just manifesting their love for a culture rooted in putdowns. nothing to do with white guys discussing a living black artform w/other white guys via a faceless communication mode.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:52 (eleven years ago) link
you are completely wrong about everything
― Influential Acid Jazz Pioneer (crüt), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
cool now i know
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
how about you eat my ass you clueless cumbubble
― vagina the escape G.O.A.T. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
Lol @ GDs dn
― flag posts in the dust (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
so much anger. just like the culture you love awww.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2013 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
ethan was cocaine and whiney is crack, in terms of the meanspiritedness of rap threads, imo
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
read that as 'crank' which seemed more accurate either way i think
― attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Monday, 21 January 2013 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
does that make deej speed?
― lex pretend, Monday, 21 January 2013 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
deej is dope
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
take that however you wanna take it
Who wants to be molly?
― longneck, Monday, 21 January 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
as if anyone on the rap internet merits that
― lex pretend, Monday, 21 January 2013 17:22 (eleven years ago) link
lil' b's twitter
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 January 2013 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.rewindreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/goodfellas-banner.jpg
j0rdan, some dude, ethan, deej? i dunno, working on it
― fieri inna babylon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 January 2013 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
joe pesci is whiney or delete the conceit
― flag posts in the dust (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 21 January 2013 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1133/1418823080_f0ed8774dc.jpg
One dog goes one way, the other dog goes the other way
― vagina the escape G.O.A.T. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 21 January 2013 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
if we even take gd seriously here id like to point out that he's conflating hardmanning and taste
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 21 January 2013 18:59 (eleven years ago) link
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, January 21, 2013 1:12 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes b/c it was RETRO -- i just was referring to what i expected their best case scenario path wd be in the industry
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 21 January 2013 19:00 (eleven years ago) link
anyway if ethan was really the all-consuming guiding light of this board's taste i think there'd be a lot more Copywrite and Ill Bill content than is currently the rage in the rolling off a molly thread
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 21 January 2013 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
and maybe i'm wrong that that strain of clowning assholeness that still permeates hiphop discussion here stems from him. maybe it's endemic to internet hiphop discussion.
lol you should read some actual rap boards
― tpp, Monday, 21 January 2013 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
ilm is prob the most civilised place to discuss rap on the internet
― tpp, Monday, 21 January 2013 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
genre-specific internet music discussion is really depressing in at both rap and metal and I would guess in other genres that I don't pay attention to. Even classical boards (not the ilm threads, ilm classical threads are some of the most useful sharing of ideas I know of) are pretty dickish in a less hardman but no less unpleasant way.
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 21 January 2013 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
delete that "at" idk how it got there
here's the top 100 reasons why metal threads are depressing
― vagina the escape G.O.A.T. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 21 January 2013 19:19 (eleven years ago) link
if you don't actually make a list of 100 different reasons why metal threads are depressing I will outlive you specifically to denounce you as a poseur at your funeral
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 21 January 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
― The Reverend, Monday, 21 January 2013 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
I Tweet On Your Grave
― da croupier, Monday, 21 January 2013 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
>>>meta threads
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 21 January 2013 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
one thing that's not on the left-side of that term is Chief Keef so we're technically still on-topic
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 21 January 2013 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, January 21, 2013 2:00 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
are you saying Maze's 70s/80s hits were retro? what were they throwbacks to?
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
no although they def werent, like, any kind of cutting edge... i just mean that it's the kind of thing that will end up w/ a moderate, touring-but-never-crossing-over audience & i could see them building up into being, like, a lifelong hip hop act that makes a decent career w/out ever being bigger than that ...
excited to hear the joey badass 'twilight' tho
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 21 January 2013 23:34 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i still just don't understand the parallel at all i guess. lots of nostalgic boom bap type rappers carve out decent longterm niche careers, no idea how that's similar to a vet R&B group in any significant way.
― the legend of bigger yansh (some dude), Monday, 21 January 2013 23:59 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/638891bc7b0d5dc6c2f1d86089170170/tumblr_mfcqgdx6FS1qfvz38o1_1280.png
― attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Tuesday, 22 January 2013 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 22 January 2013 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2013 15:30 (eleven years ago) link
is "i got cash" new?
― bish (bosch), don't kill my vibe (rennavate), Thursday, 24 January 2013 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
was in South Carolina over the weekend and heard the local rap station's countdown, "Love Sosa" was #1, like, now, in April, over much more 'current'/higher charting songs like "Started From The Bottom" and "Show Out" etc. pretty surprising, guess that song has legs on a regional level.
― Rapper Boy (some dude), Monday, 15 April 2013 12:31 (ten years ago) link
popply abba hoze lahgs abe foals
― crüt, Monday, 15 July 2013 17:08 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNgViFUJeic
― crüt, Monday, 15 July 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
hahahaha
― "If you like the Byrds, try Depeche Mode" (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 15 July 2013 17:33 (ten years ago) link
he's really stepping up his hemiola game in pronouncing "april fools"
― "If you like the Byrds, try Depeche Mode" (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 15 July 2013 17:35 (ten years ago) link
― king of steens (some dude), Monday, 15 July 2013 17:48 (ten years ago) link
hes certainly stepping up his trolling game, at any rate
def took a left turn since getting out of jail
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 15 July 2013 17:48 (ten years ago) link
#HAUHHAUHHAUH
― suggest bando (The Reverend), Monday, 15 July 2013 23:22 (ten years ago) link
um.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmfA8gzmpls
― sassy, fun, and RELATABLE (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 28 July 2013 04:57 (ten years ago) link
i'm curious to see if he goes completely down the rabbit hole and moves into completely abstract sound. it seems like the logical next step.
― sassy, fun, and RELATABLE (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 28 July 2013 05:00 (ten years ago) link
What's the over/under on the first ILXor to call him "outsider art" or "performance art"
― Does the RS Tsarnaev Cover Offend You, Yeah? (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 July 2013 15:40 (ten years ago) link
what time does D-40 normally wake up on a Sunday
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 28 July 2013 15:42 (ten years ago) link
thanks Whiney, now I want to hear him duet with Farrah Abraham
― My Buddy® of sexting (DJP), Sunday, 28 July 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
Kronos/Keef Tour 2017
― sassy, fun, and RELATABLE (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 28 July 2013 16:28 (ten years ago) link
― Neanderthal, Sunday, July 28, 2013 10:42 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the fuck?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 28 July 2013 19:18 (ten years ago) link
As I said on the other thread I don't think this stuff is that good. Sounds like he's hitting the codeine too hard.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 28 July 2013 19:19 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtDTVjhqBY
this is dope though
as is this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1Jj_Ln0k3E
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 28 July 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
but yeah ive never gone for the 'outsider art' thing, pretty sure the last time i heard that used to defend a rap artist it was one of whiney's freelance employees defending gucci mane
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 28 July 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
keef's put out a number of good songs this year, just needs to put a tape out
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 28 July 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
i liked the stuff right after he got out, macaroni time & etc. I don't like the shit that sounds like its verging on lil b levels of purposelessness
yeah some of it like "round da rosey" or whatever is just not very good
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 28 July 2013 19:23 (ten years ago) link
the songs I've heard from Keef this year are "Macaroni Time," "Ring Around The Rosey" and "April Fools"...if anything he's regressing to early childhood.
― "no, you can't be just some dude anymore." (some dude), Sunday, 28 July 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDct4NU3hQI
this is also big rn
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 28 July 2013 20:04 (ten years ago) link
the double tracked vocals on macaroni time are incredibleeee
the two new ones are pretty cool too imo
― Jacques_Lamure, Sunday, 28 July 2013 23:24 (ten years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, July 28, 2013 3:18 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
just joekz brah!
― Neanderthal, Monday, 29 July 2013 00:18 (ten years ago) link
but yeah ive never gone for the 'outsider art' thing, pretty sure the last time i heard that used to defend a rap artist it was one of whiney's freelance employees defending gucci mane --rap steve gadd (D-40)
lol booming subtweet
― Does the RS Tsarnaev Cover Offend You, Yeah? (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 29 July 2013 02:59 (ten years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/ebf705eeda5e358a432d80fcd963e41e/tumblr_mqij1y0DOu1qz9ddwo1_500.gif
― MikoMcha, Monday, 29 July 2013 05:39 (ten years ago) link
^ thread needs to be marked NSFW now IMO
― Neanderthal, Monday, 29 July 2013 13:04 (ten years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/f9c33e4217eb3392b1ac762b97395e2a/tumblr_mkdhmfRh991qz85zpo1_1280.pnghttp://www.prosar.com/Portals/138067/images/2013%20marketing%20trends.jpg
― Does the RS Tsarnaev Cover Offend You, Yeah? (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 29 July 2013 13:06 (ten years ago) link
https://twitter.com/somanyshrimp/status/366026615966281728
― some dude, Saturday, 10 August 2013 22:29 (ten years ago) link
getting to the bottom of this
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Saturday, 10 August 2013 23:47 (ten years ago) link
haha i think it's funny that you still have this theory since his, ahem, timing is similar on a lot of tracks, especially the new stuff
― some dude, Saturday, 10 August 2013 23:55 (ten years ago) link
still curious what that next level would consist of or if it's just "an approach to rhythm we can't really understand as having to do with our conceptions of what rhythm is"
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 11 August 2013 00:28 (ten years ago) link
― some dude, Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:55 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you still don't understand what i'm talking about, just fyi
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 11 August 2013 00:44 (ten years ago) link
there's a particular flow he does on that track that doesnt happen on ... any of his other songs
it's interesting that that trailer for a slick-looking "Citgo" video with Interscope logos all over it just showed up. you think that was just in the can for a long time or that they smell a hit and are still trying to do something with that album?
― some dude, Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:17 (ten years ago) link
i don't think that song is a real world hit as much as an internet/critical hit. i know for a fact the video was just shot though—the guy who shot it manages yung gleesh and they were just in chicago a couple weeks ago
i did wonder about why that particular one went through the label whereas half keef's videos seem very evidently handled by keef & the videographer directly.
he is apparently dropping 'bang 2' in a couple days though
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:27 (ten years ago) link
there is def an impetus for keef to hit the 250k mark by december though, i guess theres something in his contract where interscope could withhold releasing more albums if he doesnt hit that mark. i don't see why they would do that though, even if he didnt
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:28 (ten years ago) link
they would def need another mini-hit for him to hit 250k by the end of the year
https://twitter.com/chartnews/status/355166634106826752
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:31 (ten years ago) link
"macaroni time" might be his third biggest song ever... maybe fourth if you wanna include "bang"
Prez @PrezidentYoung 10 JulHe gotta clear 250k for him to keep the deal RT @chartnews US album sales @ChiefKeef, Finally Rich 1,819 (187,927 total)
ppl keep saying this but its not correct ... its that interscope has the option to hold up the release of a sophomore album.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:36 (ten years ago) link
btw the big lean / keef song in question has nearly a million views o_O
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4jAa5Za-nQ
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:37 (ten years ago) link
i imagine they'd keep him around even so for a second album since his music seems fairly inexpensive to make and he still does well virally without any traditional promotion
that said if they push a few singles and they don't really pop he could end up in one of those hellish deals
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:38 (ten years ago) link
all we need now is a medium lean
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:40 (ten years ago) link
lots rappers have gone GOLD and still get their follow-up album held up for so long that they inevitably give up and ask out of their contract or seem happy to get dropped, so it's not like anything's guaranteed either way. Keef doing all these songs/videos on his own and aligning with Gucci who hasn't seemed to even try to do anything with a major in years certainly indicates that he's not holding his breath for A&Rs to greenlight a 2nd album, which is why the "Citgo" thing surprised me.
― some dude, Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:45 (ten years ago) link
250 is the new gold
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:46 (ten years ago) link
i think the 250k thing is more of a semantic thing, like 'if you don't hit that number, we're not even obligated to work your next lead single and pretend to give you a release date.' xp
― some dude, Sunday, 11 August 2013 01:46 (ten years ago) link
Prob true
I doubt the label is trying to wash their hands of him or anything though
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 11 August 2013 03:05 (ten years ago) link
xiu xiu up like o-dogg
― yung humas (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 11 August 2013 03:16 (ten years ago) link
"love sosa" remix ain't exactly helping your case deej: tinyurl.com/ka57yuv
― yung humas (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 11 August 2013 03:28 (ten years ago) link
http://tinyurl.com/ka57yuv
― yung humas (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 11 August 2013 03:29 (ten years ago) link
half way through his verse he speeds up the tempo
― not some dude poking a Line 6 pedal with his dick (sarahell), Sunday, 11 August 2013 03:41 (ten years ago) link
Reminds me of Trane...
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 11 August 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
Sun Ship era maybe
― blinded by aggro (forksclovetofu), Monday, 12 August 2013 04:29 (ten years ago) link
I was only there for the first night, see, but them cats at DatPiff just made my life complete. They put out a few mixtapes of all that sound. Keef put out those nights. But you know my type, man. Can’t afford to eat, let alone spend some heavy cash on internet. So I only got the essential. <i>Finally Rich</i> is one disc, makin’ it cheaper than an iPhone. And you only get the best stuff.
Shit, cat. It don’t make a difference. The man produced enough good music to last me a lifetime. This <i>Finally Rich</i> thing’s just another example of the genius of Keef.
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, January 2, 2013 1:10 PM (7 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― brian uoeno (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 12 August 2013 05:02 (ten years ago) link
rolls eyes, dies
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 12 August 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
now i feel bad that we've got the Keef thread and the Kreayshawn thread going on at the same time
― some dude, Monday, 12 August 2013 16:46 (ten years ago) link
if you guys like arguing w/ a wholly inaccurate caricature of what ive said then have fun
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 12 August 2013 16:55 (ten years ago) link
straw mansthats that shit i dont like
― lag∞n, Monday, 12 August 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
that song is so catchy
― not some dude poking a Line 6 pedal with his dick (sarahell), Monday, 12 August 2013 21:02 (ten years ago) link
we watched the video for "don't like" in my class last night because a st gave her first speech about him. it (the speech) was pretty good! another st said that he met keef at a car wash and he (ck) was friendly and shook his hand.
― special beet service (La Lechera), Friday, 20 September 2013 13:56 (ten years ago) link
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/09/gangs-of-social-media/
― I’m a sophisticated guy, I like sophisticated music (forksclovetofu), Friday, 20 September 2013 19:28 (ten years ago) link
piece is interesting although a lil weird in parts ... the way it suggests social media bears responsibility seems a lil odd
i found this piece very interesting, argues that violence overall has gone down, but violence inequality has increased drastically:http://danielhertz.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/weve-talked-about-homicide-in-chicago-at-least-one-million-times-but-i-dont-think-this-has-come-up/
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Friday, 20 September 2013 20:38 (ten years ago) link
bears *most of* the responsibility, i should say
yeah, that hertz piece was v illuminating
― The Reverend, Friday, 20 September 2013 21:21 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLWDM2uZr60#t=163
Not sure how much creativity this guy has in the tank, visually or lyrically.
― Me & Mahomies (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 26 September 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
his verse on the "F.D.B." remix is kind of hilariously poorly recorded, and there's a Young Dro interview where he confirms Keef is on the official remix so it's not like a sloppily tacked-on unofficial mixtape edit or something
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d30pRWxLxrA
― Jean-Claude Brand Ambassador (some dude), Thursday, 26 September 2013 18:34 (ten years ago) link
yeah seriously what in the absolute fuck is the deal with that
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 26 September 2013 19:23 (ten years ago) link
why would they include that? was it recorded in a soup can?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 26 September 2013 19:46 (ten years ago) link
when that hemiola comes and...doesn't stop...
― festival culture (Jordan), Monday, November 25, 2013 6:14 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Tip from Tae Kwon Do: (crüt), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 04:47 (ten years ago) link
that verse is still awesome
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 05:09 (ten years ago) link
as does this album.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 05:11 (ten years ago) link
haha I thought of this thread when Jordan said that but thought it would be petty to bring it up
― when a real whiney hold you down, you sposed to drown (The Reverend), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 07:09 (ten years ago) link
Hemiola is a common musical term it's v telling that u all read so much more into it than was there
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 08:22 (ten years ago) link
can we have a hip-hop hemiola thread?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 08:42 (ten years ago) link
how common would you say it is, like how often would you say musicians use it
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 11:09 (ten years ago) link
i mean...there's a lot of hemiola in rap these days, people usually just call it "the migos flow" or back in the day might've said "bone thugs flow"... i just disagree that keef is using it at all in that big lean song. the meter of his verse and what beats his syllables are hitting on (or near) seems clear as day to me and it's not a hemiola thing at all imo.
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 13:18 (ten years ago) link
hahaha oh god i didn't mean to actually start this up again i'm so sorry
― Tip from Tae Kwon Do: (crüt), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 13:46 (ten years ago) link
this fredo santana song is all over the fucking place, er, I mean, he's truly a master of hemiola in the Elvin Jones tradition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcZp4YeCsB8
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 13:53 (ten years ago) link
I hear hemiola constantly but I sing a lot of Byrd, Schütz, Palestrina, Gesualdo, Tallis, etc. Anyone doing Renaissance or baroque music is going to be intimately familiar with it; jazz musicians will also be familiar with the concept but I have no idea if they use the same terminology (having just learned last week that some jazz musicians call a score a "chart", I now assume there's a different term for everything in that world).
I am willing to bet money that no one in the studio told Keef that his hemiola was dope after any take.
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 13:57 (ten years ago) link
Partially because I doubt the term would be common usage but mostly because nothing I've heard Keef do on record has anything to do with the concept of hemiola
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 13:59 (ten years ago) link
omg that fredo santana song, best song about playing with your balls ever
― Southern Lorde (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 14:46 (ten years ago) link
― Tip from Tae Kwon Do: (crüt), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 7:46 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
u lie
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:17 (ten years ago) link
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 7:57 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
and i doubt people said that to jazz musicians using it either whats your point?
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:18 (ten years ago) link
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 7:59 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
my pt was that he's using an atypical rhythmic trick there, which is undeniably true
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 7:53 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the entire thing had nothing to do w/ the micro level of being slightly off beat which is a longtime affect of his flow and was about a particular answer but yr Intentionally Misinterpret An Argument tactic is dumb
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:20 (ten years ago) link
the notion that an artist needs to be consciously aware that the rhythmic technique he's using has a precedent and a name in music theory is beside the point / has nothing to do w/ whether or not he's consciously using it
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:21 (ten years ago) link
can't you guys just admit that you kept giving david shit about this because "hemiola" is an absurdly ridiculous phrase
― le goon (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:21 (ten years ago) link
just like, the sound of it
and i doubt people said that to jazz musicians using it either whats your point?― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:18 AM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkmy pt was that he's using an atypical rhythmic trick there, which is undeniably true― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:18 AM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:18 AM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:18 AM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the undeniable chops and evident years and years of careful practice and woodshedding inherant in Chief Keef and Fredo Santana definitely lead me to believe that they are using "tricks" from the jazz arsenal instead of just being shitty rappers who can't stay on a beat
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:22 (ten years ago) link
what i'm getting out of this is that none of you know what hemiola means
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
well now my point is "you don't read what other people write" considering that here you are parroting back at me something that I JUST WROTE
xp: hold on there, Jordan
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
chief keef was recording for five years and wasn't using tricks from 'the jazz arsenal' but rather tricks from popular music that are unusual for a rapper to use in a flow, the only reason we associate hemiola w/ jazz is 70+ years of theoretical writing (which, incidentally, was written after the fact, not something that jazz musicians were consciously like "now i shall employ hemiola") which came in its wake.
and the off-beat affect of keef's flow isn't what we're talking abt here at all but keep changing the subject
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:25 (ten years ago) link
you guys can't be serious
― le goon (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:25 (ten years ago) link
there is nothing funnier than a hopeless double-down but I am afraid one day we're going to accidentally Ottify deej
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
He moola
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:29 (ten years ago) link
the jazz musicians you're talking about had chops, is the thing
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:29 (ten years ago) link
you don't gotta have theory but you do gotta have chops
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
just for the record i'm pretty sure it's used specifically to refer to repeated dotted quarter note / 3 against 2 rhythms, and Rev's track that i'm talking about in the revive is actually doing that. but please keep arguing about whether keef is intentionally (slightly) off beat or not.
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
guys
― le goon (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:23 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i am very much reading what you wrote. jazz musicians today do use the word 'hemiola' but again, 70+ years of theoretical writing. jazz musicians today are also going to jazz programs at universities.
in the evolution of jazz historically, the hemiola was a device that was used, even if the artist didnt know it had a particular name. certainly a few of the artists w/ classical training & after the arrival of bebop would have been aware of what the real name of it was.
w/ the keef example with big lean, he was kicking a flow i wasn't familiar with that seemed to arrive at a different time on the beat than usual. i wasnt' sure if there was a musicological term to describe what he was doing (although I certainly would expect that he wouldn't know if there was)
people who wanted to believe that i have some completely overanalyzed, overintellectualized relationship w/ this music and that i don't 'get' it's purpose want to believe that I'm making some argument about him being a technical wizard genius which isn't what i'm doing ... all i said was that he took a novel rhythmic approach
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:35 (ten years ago) link
ppl are giving you shit but no one is seriously thinking you're saying that. it's just, we're suggesting instead of him having a "novel rhythmic approach" maybe he's just sloppy and not very good as a rapper?
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:44 (ten years ago) link
right and i'm talking about a particular example where he is clearly making a conscious effort to do something different so your opinion of his usual flow is kind of irrelevant
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:47 (ten years ago) link
he is not "clearly making a conscious effort to do something different" - that's clear to you. To others, who know at least as much about music as you do, it just sounds like he's rapping badly.
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:48 (ten years ago) link
however if you wanna go Death of the Author and say the hemiola's there for the careful reader well n'est pas hors-texte & whatnot
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
haha, oh right, that's the track we're talking about it. not do to this again but i still maintain that the engineer misaligned the vocal track.
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
Which track is it again?
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
this seems clear to me, too - as I said back when the hemiola first reared its head, it sounds like Keef can't hear the beat. that means either a) he actually couldn't, or b) he could, but the vocal track in (most likely) Pro Tools got dragged a little ways one way or the other in mix
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
as a side note, big lean def sounds like a big sean fan which is funny bc his name is one letter off
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
Big Yawn
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
Yes, I know this, which is why I keep cracking up that deej chose "hemiola" as an example and seems determined to go down in flames defending the choice rather than saying "maybe that was a bad example"
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
mind-bending
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
retracted
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:03 (ten years ago) link
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:02 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it was obv a bad example bc people just like saying the word over & over—it was merely an example of a macro rhythmic trick as opposed to a micro ('he's so off beat!') one
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
Can we change the name of this thread to something that has hemiola in it please?
― longneck, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:00 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
im willing to believe the latter is also a possibility. it doesn't sound like he can't hear the beat at all though...he's still rapping to a beat of some kind
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
that's why i think it's misaligned, because the rhythm in his track is internally consistent but consistently off from the beat.
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:19 (ten years ago) link
xp that's what I think is the case - he heard it when he tracked it. sorry if this is almost doubtless overexplaining shit you already know but when you track in Pro Tools (and I assume in any other digital protocol but PT is the standard, p much everybody uses it) whatever you're playing ends up on a track like here:
http://cdn.uberreview.com/wp-content/uploads/pt.jpg
you can click and drag on anything in there and move it right or left, and producing in pro tools is basically untold hours of clicking and dragging - moving beats over, words over, deleting regions you don't like and pasting in parts you do, etc. I have no idea how producers can stand it, it's numbing to watch. but I recently had a track dragged about an inch and a half to the right accidentally, because everybody was tired, and we didn't know it had happened and when we listened to playback, it sounded like nobody could hear anybody else.
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
I have no idea how producers can stand it, it's numbing to watch
i would hate to do it for music that's supposed to sound live and seamless and untouched by the cold digital hands, but it's fun when it's the creative method you're using to make the music happen (ie rap beats or electronic music).
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:31 (ten years ago) link
step up in Deej's town you know everything ishe-mi-olahe-mi-olahe-mi-ola
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:36 (ten years ago) link
the 'engineer messed up' theory makes no sense to me because there's songs all over Keef's major label album where the vocals wobble in the vicinity of the beat in the exact same way, it seems consistent with performances throughout his career
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:39 (ten years ago) link
he's still rapping to a beat of some kind
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 11:10 AM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post
The beat of his own drummer, man
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
y'all are hemiolaphiliacs
― Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:45 (ten years ago) link
i swear i'll still be reading this conversation in 5 years' time
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:45 (ten years ago) link
he should do a track with that dude from das racist, heemsiola
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:47 (ten years ago) link
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:39 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
are you trolling or
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:51 (ten years ago) link
nah -- that verse sounds like a lot of his verses to me. the fact that you seem to advocate that the verse is either deliberately rhythmically complex OR the result of an engineering accident as if those 2 theories are in any way compatible seems more like trolling to me.
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
you seem to be the only one who doesn't hear a difference between that particular song and his others. is the difference between his flow being slightly off the beat and the actual placement of his words w/in each measure not a concept you're grasping or
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:16 (ten years ago) link
ok, so if i'm wrong and that verse is unique and glaring -- which theory do you support? is it him doing rhythmic backflips or a lousy engineer? it can't be both.
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:21 (ten years ago) link
he is soooo nice lol i herd his gang killed lil jojo rotf
― Phoebe (color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:27 (ten years ago) link
most sweetest post-oj da juice can't-have-my-cocaine weed music
― Phoebe (color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:28 (ten years ago) link
chicago is a seriously mixed crows
― Phoebe (color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:29 (ten years ago) link
we went over that when it was first discussed, sd
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:30 (ten years ago) link
― D-40, Monday, December 31, 2012 2:34 PM (11 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
hemiyolo
― flopson, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:38 (ten years ago) link
Maison Hemiola
― longneck, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
ha this thread: a+ #teamkeef #teamhemiola
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:35 (ten years ago) link
don't you mean #teamiola
― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:42 (ten years ago) link
#otm
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:44 (ten years ago) link
<university of chicago gamelan/>
― dude-icrous (color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 20:36 (ten years ago) link
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 11:10 AM (25 minutes ago)
Yeah, I don't think it's a tracking thing, it sounds like he's consistently rapping in a different tempo, rather than just ahead/behind the beat -- it is rhythmically interesting - mistake or no, intentional or unintentional
― sarahell, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:29 (ten years ago) link
oh shit just remembered deej scoffing at dev hynes saying the empire state building is a g flat but sure hes cool w keef hemiola such bs wtf #unfair
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:31 (ten years ago) link
his voice is so rich
― dude-icrous (color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:31 (ten years ago) link
#gangsta
Rap Game Don Caballero
― Divvy Bikes to Watch Out For (Eazy), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:39 (ten years ago) link
Don cab are boring tho
― sarahell, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:40 (ten years ago) link
― lag∞n, Tuesday, December 3, 2013 4:31 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
see if keef tried to play me by saying "totes going for a hemiola there" i would also scoff
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 00:18 (ten years ago) link
what only you are allowed to declare hemiola ?!!
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 00:26 (ten years ago) link
music critics i swear man they got it twisted
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 00:27 (ten years ago) link
#humer
― dude-icrous (color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 00:30 (ten years ago) link
#nylmatic
― dude-icrous (color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 00:31 (ten years ago) link
#3Hunniola
― Divvy Bikes to Watch Out For (Eazy), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 00:44 (ten years ago) link
I did a search for Keef's "Almighty SO" album and found nothing. Anyway I can't stop listening to it.
― C.A. Hall (C.A.H.OOTS), Saturday, 25 January 2014 02:15 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3335KNFYK1I
― PSY talks The Nut Job (forksclovetofu), Monday, 3 March 2014 18:42 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj8BZGP15g4
― festival culture (Jordan), Monday, 3 March 2014 18:51 (ten years ago) link
Best Buy bonus track from this album was fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IduVvrgKiqc
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 3 March 2014 19:52 (ten years ago) link
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-white-chief-keef-has-arrived-and-hes-everything-yo-1570430902
― sitting on a claud all day gotta make your butt numb (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 1 May 2014 19:02 (nine years ago) link
that's so stupid
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 1 May 2014 19:16 (nine years ago) link
viral fail
def thought that was gonna be a stitches post
― le goon (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 1 May 2014 19:35 (nine years ago) link
just found out this guy is facebook friends with me smh
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 1 May 2014 23:14 (nine years ago) link
yung lean was the white keef anyway
― whatchutola khomeini (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 May 2014 23:16 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxPu15m6kuA
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 16 July 2014 03:15 (nine years ago) link
lol'd at the "up his ass goes the pool cue" line
― Now I Am Become Dracula (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 July 2014 12:50 (nine years ago) link
best rapper of all time
― Treeship, Tuesday, 26 July 2016 04:42 (seven years ago) link
indisputably true
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 26 July 2016 04:49 (seven years ago) link
^ gets it
― Treeship, Tuesday, 26 July 2016 05:12 (seven years ago) link
rereading this thread made my eye fidget
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 27 July 2016 01:20 (seven years ago) link
absolutely fantastic that people are now saying blueface is "no keef" because he can't stay on beat:
hes no keef,thug or uzi tho dude is a parody of a rapper at best who cant stay on beat.— Lee (@FollowMMisery) December 11, 2018
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 06:46 (five years ago) link
his new one is more in that playboi carti zone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w6X_B9nVPg
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 06:55 (five years ago) link
«I don’t like» still pretty intense
― Mule, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 16:19 (two years ago) link
new song popped up on Spotify in my release radar, but I was wondering....like what is the deal with Keef? Just seem like he was ascendant and really seen as a big new voice in hip hop and he kinda...quit trying? (at least from the outside)
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 16:21 (two years ago) link
Yeah, haven’t really followed him that close, but never got the impression that he really delivered on the promise. He left Chicago, may have something to do with it (though it was probably good for him)
― Mule, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 16:25 (two years ago) link
he was gonna drop an album with mike will, and the two singles he dropped off that were incredibly good, but that rollout seems to have fizzled out
― the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 18:31 (two years ago) link
hes had some hits that were not so much radio hits but did big streaming numbers, and made a lot of weird but not always great music, seems like he kinda just follows his muse and doesnt really care otherwise
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 18:48 (two years ago) link
he also made a lot of his own beats which were often weird and not that technically proficient, he basically became a diy artist after getting dropped
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 18:50 (two years ago) link
wouldve been cool if he couldve stayed in the pocket a lil more oh well
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 18:56 (two years ago) link
He's had some huge hits. He's had problems with labels. He's invented styles. His music has been leaked. He's been the most influential rapper in the last 10 years.
He's a legend.
― ANU (sisilafami), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 20:03 (two years ago) link
deej is that you
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 20:26 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUl99v4I_60
Hard as fuck
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 07:25 (two years ago) link
Sisilafami is right. I talk to young artists daily who, in 2021, say Chief keef is who inspired them to rap
He’s the most influential artist of the decade and had an immeasurable impact
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 07:27 (two years ago) link
I really hate !! The contention that his post major label stuff was just weird off brand experiments and bad diy self production. It’s underestimating it’s broad popular appeal, while simultaneously overvaluing the quality of the samey saturation of streaming rap in the last few years
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 07:51 (two years ago) link
whatever happened to that project he was making with mike will? both singles were excellent
― bart harley-jarvis cocker (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 14:29 (two years ago) link
No idea. I thought they were just ok. Like this new song more honestly.
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 15:30 (two years ago) link
Thinking about joe's posts is driving me nuts lol. "stayed in the pocket" he invented the fucking pocket
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 13 July 2021 18:02 (two years ago) link
lmao he shouldve stayed in it after he invented it
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 15:46 (two years ago) link
in all seriousness i do respect the way keef has been out there doing his art but i prefer the early stuff
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 15:51 (two years ago) link
new song is a banger tho, it's true
― bart harley-jarvis cocker (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 14 July 2021 16:04 (two years ago) link
hes def had some nice songs the only ones i can say i actively dislike are from his owl city period
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 14 July 2021 16:09 (two years ago) link
― lag∞n, Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:51 AM (six days ago) bookmarkflaglink
the stuff casual fans like, the dont like and love sosas etc., that stuff is iconic but definitely not his best stuff. its also not the stuff uzi, 21, carti, etc. built their sounds off of. its not surprising ppl undervalue his influence when they dont even know the records. but yea, his tapes after finally rich are way way better than the stuff "most people" know.
Also among actual rap fans its the records from the mid-later period that are most well known these days anyway...faneto, earned it, text, my baby, facts, kills, those are more iconic singles at this point ... and tapes like bang2, almightyso, back from the dead 2, nobody, dedication are >>> finally rich. they're not 'weird experiments,' everyone needs to stop biting 8 year old noz tweets, they're just great rap projects, w more ideas per song than the average stretched-too-thing-recorded-too-long pain rap tape today
the shit that rips off that period -- 'we dem boyz' type music -- is the fuckin worst
i assume by 'owl city period' you mean thot breaker which is a dope tape, just corny bc it got twee pitchfork support & is somehow his highest rated album. its not bad at all though, there are classic tracks on it
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 02:36 (two years ago) link
*stretched-too-thin-recorded-too-long pain rap tape
**the shit that rips off the finally rich early period -- we dem boyz type music -- is the fuckin worst
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 02:37 (two years ago) link
among actual rap fanshope to meet one someday
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 02:58 (two years ago) link
so like does he rap off beat on purpose
― making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 02:59 (two years ago) link
just to go back 7 years in the convo
deej does deserve his victory lap, keef did become as influential as he predicted, not that's he's one for "I told you so's"
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 03:08 (two years ago) link
― making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 03:22 (two years ago) link
True it’s important ilx maintains condescension levels
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 04:01 (two years ago) link
I was being serious except for the last lineyou were right and we (or I specifically) was wrong! he ended up being that important
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 04:12 (two years ago) link
"they're not 'weird experiments,(...) they're just great rap projects"
This is not mutually exclusive. BFTD2 is weird. Keef has also a huge influence on hyperpop.
― ANU (sisilafami), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 16:25 (two years ago) link
Feel like you’re misunderstanding me — of course they’re creative & experimental but not imo in some way that’s somehow exceptional to rap artists when they’re in a creative zone generally. The exception w him is id say the frequency of the ideas, there’s room for a lot more variation & surprise as a result.
What joe said was “I do respect the way he’s out there doing his art” before dismissing that art out of hand, I think ppl tend to stigmatize stuff as weird that isn’t like … outsider art or some shit. It’s redefined the boundaries of the genre, of what is considered “normal”
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 17:37 (two years ago) link
i domt see how you can say his later work is more influential when there are literal english making right drill music mate, ALSO idk why i am the one being attacked here when i have always been supportive of keefs artistic flights of fancy
― lag∞n, Sunday, 8 August 2021 16:31 (two years ago) link
i even like his aggressively avant garde work that only ticktok teens can understand but still i prob wouldve enjoyed a more direct career trajectory from bang through finally rich and so on, theres def an interesting path not chosen there, particularly i really like how he used his voice early on, in some ways he became a more conventional rapper after that, somewhat compensating by adopting a loosey goosey style
― lag∞n, Sunday, 8 August 2021 16:46 (two years ago) link
UK drill & NY drill were initially impacted by Keef in obvious ways (ie the first GS9 tape has flips of Keef's post-Finally Rich song "Pull Up") but the main blueprint for the sound is Lil Herb & Bibby's "Kill Shit." Which in Chicago was kind of a brief window / angle of the sound around DJ L's production.
The way in which Keef's post-Finally Rich sound was influential is much more around Bang 2 & the loosies from that 2013-2015 period, and its influence isn't so much on 'drill' the way its conceived in ny/uk as much as rappers like uzi, kodak, 21, xxx, playboi carti, et al
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Monday, 9 August 2021 21:43 (two years ago) link
imo he made his voice *more* interesting not less after "Finally Rich" -- on FR he was doing that style where his voice casually rides the beat, sounds like Gucci Mane but his voice pops more to the front of the speaker where Gucci was kind of demur. But then he did that looser more aggressive attack & that's when his voice became way more malleable & started experimenting w/ darker melodies & textures & IMO showed much more the possibilities for vocal stylings that other artists picked up and ran off with
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Monday, 9 August 2021 21:45 (two years ago) link
new song is titanically great, goddamn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f36hvoQ-bCs
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Monday, 15 August 2022 23:41 (one year ago) link
https://hiphopdx.com/news/chief-keef-finally-rich-10th-anniversary-reissue
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 5 December 2022 16:10 (one year ago) link
aoty
― devvvine, Monday, 5 December 2022 16:11 (one year ago) link
Mexicans in Chicago ✅✅ pic.twitter.com/K4qDsQap4B— El Sol Sale Pa Todos (@frijoliz) December 5, 2022
― lag∞n, Monday, 5 December 2022 16:40 (one year ago) link