Aztec Camera / Roddy Frame: Classic or Dud?

?!?!?!

First album = yay!

So what's the post-1985 stuff like? More like Howard Jones or more like Mark Knopfler?

Mark Radcliffe says '... classic tune, I think...', and dedicates it to a listener who asks him to tell his fiancee that he is 'looking forward to marrying her'.

The first album is a classic, and so are about half the songs on Knife.

Somehow, if there was any one single part of Mr. Frame's oeuvre that I might have anticipated would light Mr. In NYC's honorable (sic) fire, I would have expected it to be "Set The Killing Free".

"dud"

-- mullygrubbr (fan...), August 19th, 2005 8:03 AM. (later)

Gaz made me cry.

Classic, obv., even if only for the first album and handful of singles.

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000F1IL3M.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Apparently there's also a live album which was recorded at Ronnie Scott's last year, which you can only get through the official Roddy Frame website.

well -- just heard "The Crying Scene" after a long spell. Holds up pretty well in that early nineties Lightning Seeds/Michael Penn pop-alternative way.

dud

that's just from hearing 'high land hard rain' too much and hating the inspid trash

of the lyrics and the delivery. acoustic guitars are ok.

He was always a good guitar player, and has produced some good songs along the way, but his early work has long been very, very overrated by ageing (and now youthful) indie types, most of whom probably revere Orange Juice and the Go-Betweens also.

Small World on Surf has one of the most beautiful melodies I have heard in recent years. It was the theme to the TV series Early Doors. It has the same qualities of his early songs, the romanticism, which I know will condemn him in some eyes.

"Surf" is a bit too stripped for my taste, but the songs are quality ones, surely.

"lost outside the tunnel" is the only song which ever did something for me. it has the melancholic vibe and the scottishness in the singing and tune. we had a thread about that a long time ago. all the other few songs i heard i found boring, generic, flat, bland, mor, without any interest and spark. except "jump" of course but that's not his.

classic

there is another song i dig, "worlds in worlds", a demo is online on his site. "marble arch" is quite nice too. i know hardly any of his work so there are probably much more...

_Dreamland_ is the only Aztec Camera album I got rid of

Why? I consider it perhaps his best album other than the debut.

i love Dreamland. Great album. That's the one with Valium Summer right? That album is solid all the way through.

Overrated as per but I find I can still listen to 'Oblivious' a lot.

apropos of nothing else on this thread: pinefox, i always wanted to ask you, do you like (have you heard) M. Ward?

The first album really needs to be re-issued with the A and B sides of the two Postcard singles added.

But the real first album, "Green Jacket Grey" has never been issued at all. We need that, plus the four single sides. I've heard the whole thing (I think; nine songs) - really cool stuff.

http://www.gigsandtours.com/tour/roddy-frame-aztec-camera-s-high-land-hard-rain/?pre=aztec&offercode=artistroddy&direct=true

Just saying.

Yes, issue "Green Jacket Grey" already! Unfortunately it will probably never officially happen since Roddy seems to hate it.

Every time I search it, it's a dead(link)end.

https://soundcloud.com/elframo/green-jacket-grey

Yeah been hoping for that Postcard era stuff to turn up in an equivalent of Orange Juice's The Glasgow School or something. Has Roddy Frame publicly disowned it or anything?
Certainly High Land hrd rain sounds better without th etinny production taht was one arlier versions of the cd.

Oh, it's just one track, I thought it was the whole thing. Sorry.

I have a dusty old cassette featuring a tinny fuzzy bootleg of Green Jacket Grey in our loft which I haven't listened to (or even thought about) for about 20 years. I must go and try and find it.

Seriously considering getting my passport to attend one of the High Land shows.

I hope he 'll put out some new material soon — it's been 7 years since his last album. White Pony (a newish song he's been performing live for a few years) is great.

I'm hoping these are just warm up shows in the long run.

A new record would be fantastic.

I saw him doing an acoustic show last year, and if this tour is even half as good as that, I'll be a very happy lass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhFeRZv0mVc

Yes, issue "Green Jacket Grey" already! Unfortunately it will probably never officially happen since Roddy seems to hate it.

I heard that he played Green Jacket Grey and When The Spirit Shows in London on Sunday night. Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't hate it after all.

I was at the London show on sunday night. I've seen Roddy play acoustically many times, and (though I loved those acoustic gigs) this was on completely another level. A wonderful and utterly unforgettable evening. And, yep, he played Green Jacket Grey, The Spirit Shows and Just Like Gold. And this one of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8hN927iSrM

Not the song, the album "Green Jacket Grey"

but.

Aye, but playing songs from that era perhaps suggests he doesn't hate it as much as was previously thought. Maybe.

New old treats, something of a treasure trove: https://soundcloud.com/postcard-of-scotland/

gripped High Land, Hard Rain earlier this week based on the band name alone, friend of mine said they were buds with Orange Juice? really great record, sorta reminds me of Prefab Sprout and XTC

Good man, the follow up "Knife" is excellent as well. After that it gets patchy but there's moments of brilliance along the way. The best Roddy is voice+guitar.

Yes, early Aztec Camera was on the Postcard label. Malcolm Young was in Aztec Camera for a while, but he also spent time in the other Postcard bands, Orange Juice and Josef K.

I will swear until the day I retire that Knife is Roddy's greatest work. I understand this is far from the consensus, but I stand by it.

I would recommend parts of Stray and Dreamland.

It's kind of strange that he didn't get truly consistent until he started releasing albums under his own name. All of his solo records range from decent (North Star) to great (Western Skies + Seven Dials) to flat out brilliant (Surf).

Some things bear repeating: how does a 17yr old write a song like 'We Could Send Letters'?

Why did I think he was dead? Odd, that.

I saw him on a solo tour way back in . . . 86-87? Whenever he released the live album with the plaid pants. He was surprisingly good. I say "surprising" only because . . . well, a solo show.

Was it a live album? I think so. A live EP, more like. The one on the right in this picture:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0RcAAOxyeR9TGA16/s-l600.jpg

Coincidentally, the ScottishTeeVee YT channel just posted this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NxkgHYuoh0

Pretty wild that Aztec Camera were using a Fairlight for live shows in 1983. Rough Trade must have had great expectations for Roddy.

gosh, was he sexy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1Q8ZkXZ1Q

Used to listen to High Land, Hard Rain regularly -- how's the rest of their discography?

Marvelous moments all over the place.

Got a Best Of list at HTV?

Sure: https://humanizingthevacuum.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/happy-in-happy-extremes-the-best-of-aztec-camera/

I don't know much beyond High Land... but I'm dazzled at the notion that there are 15 better songs *in the world* than 'We Could Send Letters', let alone 15 by the same man.

Thanks, Alfred!

alfred otm of course, tho i am making my token appearance in this revival to rep for knife. it's my favorite thing he's ever done.

(also fist bumps to alfred for repping "black lucia" — very solid jam!)

Thanks to Indexed, I'm listening to Dreamland's "Safe in Sorrow" as I type.

I think Scritti and Anita Baker were Roddy's inspiration to go soul pop rather than SOS.

we should poll dreamland. if high land didn't exist, it'd be his second best album.

I think Scritti and Anita Baker were Roddy's inspiration to go soul pop rather than SOS.

― Piedie Gimbel,

He went on and on about Rapture in these 1987 reviews. He got it better than American critics.

*interviews

Rapture had been number 2 in the NME's 1986 end of year list, so it was a UK critical commonplace at the time.

I think Western Skies, under his own name rather than AC, is up there too.

My god:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKNUKidVML0

xpost

I think Western Skies, under his own name rather than AC, is up there too.

― Piedie Gimbel, Friday, December 16, 2022 8:05 AM

roddy's records under his own name are excellent across the board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYCs2sY2ahE

"postcard" (2014)

I love when this board gets me down a good old fashioned discography wormhole

xpost to It's Friday, Post Vids of Chill Tunes Why Not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzkp48musvE

"knife" (1984)

alltime vibe.

"The Crying Scene" is a jam

shame the deluxe edition stuff isn't on us spotify. couple of his solo albums aren't there either. he seems really ripe for a revival. at least they have the version of the first album with "orchid girl" and "queen's tattoos."

he is a very charming man, isn't he?😻

sorry to spam this thread but he is someone i am admittedly too big a fan of to be objective whatsoever. thanks for the revival.

i even have a very fond recommendation for his 2002 all acoustic album surf.

"high class music" (2002):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9drqJU3bRg

these acoustic-only tunes are some of his best and always have been.

"mattress of wire" (live, easily better than studio version, 1984):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i66Mbln4xU0

"dry land" (2006):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u26z5XK0x38

"if life could taste that good again, i swear i'd never complain."

🙂oh, gosh. please tell me more.🙂

Life should taste like Roddy Frame imo

Listening to Knife from start to finish for the first time in decades, it's really fucking great.

I was just thinking the same of Dreamland

Dreamland is my fav Aztec Camera album by a long shot.

was frestonia his faux-weller attempt? i always get about two minutes into the songs and then go, "oh yeah. it all kind of goes this direction, doesn't it?"

giving it another attempt atm and the big boomidy-b'dapdap-b'boom-CRASSSHHH reprise on "rainy season" made me irl lol. oh boy.

i mean it's alright. he still sounds in good spirits, but those silly guitar solos. he was still doing that for a couple songs on his last album, too! just funny. i mean he's got the chops, why the hell not. on that note, his amazing cover of "jump" is not on us spotify and that's just, like, fucking stupid man. (grr face)

don't care if it's already been posted. here 'tis. definition of a classic-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDhQ8ed7WLg

"jump" (1984)

sheesh, his digital catalogue is telling a story. i wanted to post a youtube of the song "imperfectly" from frestonia and make a snarky comment about how he invented imagine dragons, but i found this bemusing stat:
https://i.imgur.com/OF7q1HT.png

ahh well, here it is; wdyt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CukQYM5CqxU

"imperfectly" (1995)

okay, "beautiful girl" is preposterous. they had to have known that it sounds simultaneously like "summer breeze" and that phantom of the opera riff in "echoes." that is a fucking bland song jesus crimini.

i just don't buy his attempts to be a rocker dude. some of it's alright, but nah man. this ain't you.

yeah, probably not his best album. in fact, upon revisting, i am currently thinking of everything else he's ever done with a much better opinion than frestonia. it's very mor. no thank you.

but i recommend everything else he's ever done in varying degrees of essential-ness.

wow this thread has blown up in the last couple but after soto's refresh i rechecked Love it's still nope, but also based on recs here i listened to Surf 4 times and it is indeed greeeeeaaaaat.

ever since hearing 'Birth of the True' at the end of his follow up, I've longed for an entirely acoustic album - one guitar, one voice, no harmonies. And here it finally is: 'Surf'; and it's quite beautiful

Ugh god same can't believe I've been sleeping on this record for 20 years thank you Alfred for the revive and everyone else involved in this beautiful old timey internet forum, what a gift

jammin' the north star this afternoon for the first time in a long while. big sigh. so good. absolutely nothing even resembling a surprise happens.

and yet.

ps- is faux boy band north star-era roddy your favorite?
https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000087094007-tmec67-t500x500.jpg
because it's mine.

Dave Mustaine, recently:

... there’s a guy named Roddy Frame who is the singer for a band called Aztec Camera, and most metal people would call me a pussy if they heard Aztec Camera, but it’s a great band with beautiful songwriting. That’s where I turn to when I want to learn something. I’ll go to people who are exceptional in their field. And Roddy Frame writes for a lot of people. When somebody has unlocked the secret of songwriting, for me, I want to maybe not pick their brain, but at least observe.

and then there's me who actively got called a pussy for liking aztec camera.

but yeah, spot on dave. roddy's clearly great, sure. lol @ "exceptional in their field." ya think ol'davo thinks of himself accordingly?

lol

I'm not a pussy ok! I'm just observing exceptional people in their field! I'll kick your ass! MEGADETH

was looking for youtube covers to help me figure out how to play some of the tunes from Surf, found the video below which is not exactly helpful because it's all arranged for piano but is great none the less, pandemic-era living room set of Roddy songs, very interesting to hear on a piano

I guess in the end I have to agree with Dave Mustaine, I don't know that Dave has unlocked the secret of songwriting but if anyone has it's probably Roddy Frame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0MuJIKBTGQ

Some things bear repeating: how does a 17yr old write a song like 'We Could Send Letters'?

dreamland thoughts...

suspend disbelief, close your eyes, and press play on "vertigo" with the thought that it's roddy, sakamoto, jam+lewis.

i mean... "vertigo" up to classic camera status for me anyway. it's roddy doing city pop!

OMG Roddy Frame turned 60 this year, how is that even possible?

that's clark kent for you, man. idk how he does it either. (winkwink)

so my daughter, for some reason, has become really into Aztec Camera...trying to think of other bands/artists in that vein to recommend - maybe Orange Juice?

Prefab Sprout

especially Steve McQueen aka Two Wheels Good

trash can sinatras second album

yep I second Steve McQueen

xp it’s called “I’ve seen everything”

awesome thanks!

Crowded house, temple of low men
Lloyd Cole, rattlesnakes

Robyn Hitchcock, woodentops, go-betweens, and c86 bands

Trash can Sinatras is a great shout but maybe not aor enough... the singer's sister's first record with fairground attraction might be closer to the young idealistic yuppie vibe i get from aztec camera

I feel like orange juice are a bit weird compared to aztec camera.

The Pale Fountains

The Woodentops

so my daughter, for some reason, has become really into Aztec Camera...

oh come on, we all know the reason: aztec camera fucking smashes!

maybe some of that early sophistipop stuff for riyl? style council, ebtg, etc. kinda feel like anything else more immediately adjacent has already been mentioned.

maybe she’d like men at work?

The Bluebells? Scritti Politti?

Martin Stephenson & The Daintees

The Bible/Boo Hewardine solo

Kevin McDermott Orchestra

Perhaps some of the Scottish bands that were around at roughly the same time, The Big Dish, His Latest Flame, Del Amitri, The Silencers, Deacon Blue (their first record particularly), Love & Money

... Danny Wilson, there were dozens of them.

If looking for something more recent in the tuneful Scottish singer-songwriter vein, can recommend both Hamish Hawk and Withered Hand

And Ballboy.

really appreciate the thoughtful suggestions, been listening to a few - Steve McQueen is a great one should have thought of that

very interesting to me as a yank w/no knowledge of Del Amitri besides that soggy "Roll to Me" song that was an alt rock hit here in the 90s, the first DA album is really great!

Trashcan Sinatras is another name I've seen for years and this second album is indeed amazing

Pale Fountains I'd never even heard of but are great, looks like two went on to Shack another band I've never heard

cheers everyone

If you go for Shack, do check the Magical World of the Strands, which is the Head brothers again. Thread just reminded me of it so put it on for the first time in 15 or so years & still sounds gorgeous.

AC question: Are there any releases of mattress of wire & just like gold outside the original singles? Don't see them on streaming.

Don't sleep on Trashcan Sinatras' Cake, my favorite of theirs. I also like a lot of Weightlifting, but that gets a bit further from the sound of AC.

Haircut 100 is Aztec adjacent I think and may be a good listen.

Seems like there must be American 80s bands that would fit, but I'm not coming up with anything.

The postcard singles never made it to any cd issue or compilation, a real shame.

Was looking through my 80s jangle pop playlist and a few that might suit, with enough tasty chords and properly thrilling bridges or big chorus buildups:

Marshall crenshaw
Close lobsters
Long ryders
Billy bragg's workers playtime
Max eider, best kisser in the world
Not sure which nick lowe record would appeal most to an aztec camerade, maybe impossible bird

Early Byrds (the Gene Clark years)? Maybe The Left Banke, if you can find their collection There's Gonna Be Storm Haven't heard a lot of the Beau Brummels, but vocals esp v nice, Moby Grape in the right mood, ditto Small Faces, Humble Pie, Ronnie Lane's albums (he's the Face etc. I'm mostly thinking of AzCam-vibewise). Incl. the one q Pete Townsend, for that matter some of PT's early solo stuff (and Who, on occasion)

later on: The Records, 20/20, Big Star, esp early and mellower live tracks. More cherrypicking: some by The Individuals (esp. "Walk By Your House," studio version, but live is good too) maybe The dB's and related solo-duo etc., The Bongos?

Oh seems like after High Land Hard Rain Came out, Frame mentioned early Jackson Browne as a favorite.

some good roots+influences there―love left banke!

also good point re:original singles. def seek them out, easily located on youtube. firm agree: big shame that's the only way to hear them these days. i've said this elsewhere, even tho summa those are definitive versions, i have to admire roddy's decision to leave them in the past. think about it like this- not sure if i'd want such stuff recorded when i was 16 to just be 'out there'

also for stuff contempo to aztec camera, what about friends again? they're fun!

never heard aztec camera, have always been curious

all i can say is this revive has made me SO confused about what they might sound like, lol

Loved it when Roddy moussed his hair, squeezed into a leather jacket, and played the vulgar riffs he once eschewed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1Q8ZkXZ1Q

From the big banging era, Good Morning Britain still always breaks my heart, optimism in the shithole kingdom

D'oh! AzCam appeal in ancient kingdom-wise, how could I have missed opp for obvious mention of Beatlese: "In My Life," "The Two of Us," "Blackbird," "Julia," "Every Little Thing," even "Dear Prudence," George's folk-rock guitar, no doubt other.

lol yeah anybody ever heard of the Beatles?

they were on Postcard Records iirc

John Lennon tried to tell Edwyn Collins what to do (fing geezer)

At the record store where JL had "seniority"

Where Roddy was a juvenile lurker "I bet even that kid could sing as well as you, Collins!"

That early to mid 80s jangly sophisticated pop sound (think Aztec Camera, Postcard Records, The Lotus Eaters, etc)

https://i.imgur.com/hZZJaRM.jpeg

official stats circa march '85.

...and hasn't released new music in over a decade. :-(

hey gerald, why not revisit the classics? saved up my lunch money and got the second album back on my shelf:
https://i.imgur.com/o3nRARb.jpeg

cool reissue with the "jump" ep attached! that wounded bird label was a strange menagerie, but doing good work keeping this stuff in print+available.

I have this version: https://www.discogs.com/release/3926652-Aztec-Camera-Knife

My favorite live performance remains the solo acoustic Live At Ronnie Scott's that came out as b-sides to the singles from "Dreamland".

that's a nice 'deluxe edition' package. dang, wish i got the 12" mix of "all i need is everything" on mine!

this just got added to my wishlist:
https://www.discogs.com/release/3919413-Aztec-Camera-Dreamland

is dreamland big in the sakamoto fandom? it should be.

I have all the CDs that made up the Ronnie Scott gig - if you put them all together the spines make a picture of Roddy. I say I have them, they're in my mother-in-law's basement, I think. There's a superbly jangly version of Spanish Horses.

No idea what's happened to Roddy Frame these days. Saw him in Glasgow ten years ago where he played a brand new song as part of his set, suggesting some new material may be on the way, then nothing. Had thought he may resurface for Edwyn Collins' farewell tour. But nothing. Seems to have just slid into a retirement.