Gang Of Four.

Entertainment is the album, released 1979 on EMI.

My fav track: I found that essence rare

Biography

Gang Of Four was formed in 1977 in Leeds, England, by Andy Gill, Jon King and Hugo Burnham, all graduates of Leeds University, and Dave Allen, who answered an advert for a 'bass player wanted'. After their first single in 1978, they were snapped up by EMI and released their debut album Entertainment! in 1979.

Their second single, At Home He's A Tourist, actually made the UK Top 40, and Gang Of Four had been due to appear on Top Of The Pops, but were dropped at the last minute when they refused to remove the word 'rubbers' from the lyrics. Having retained their artistic integrity but missed their chance of wider fame, they were destined to remain a cult band, and they never again reached the singles chart.

The second album Solid Gold was released in 1981, but shortly afterwards Dave Allen left to form Shriekback, and was replaced on bass by Sara Lee. A third album, Songs Of The Free followed in 1982, but by this point much of the original hard edge had been lost from the music. Hugo Burnham left after this album, and the fourth album, Hard (1983), featured Andy Gill programming the Linndrum, with Jo Galdo, Ron Albert and Howard Albert also heavily involved. Steve Goulding provided live drums until 1984, when the band broke up. A live album, At The Palace, features one of their last gigs.

For a while, that was it, but in 1990 Gang Of Four was re-formed, on a part-time basis, by Andy Gill and Jon King, with various people filling in on bass and drums. The first single from the reformed band was Money Talks, released by independent record label Scarlett Recordings, and an album Mall followed in 1991, on Polydor. The sound was rather more electronic than Gang Of Four's earlier work, and later they admitted to only being happy with about half of it.

Andy and Jon kept themselves busy with film soundtrack work, and one such film, Delinquent, provided much of the music for the sixth Gang Of Four studio album, Shrinkwrapped. The album was released by When! (part of Castle Communications) in 1995, to widespread acclaim but (presumably) the usual dismal sales. A couple of rare but triumphant gigs followed, in London and America, but Jon King has since left the music business, meaning the end of Gang Of Four.

In 1998 Andy, Hugo and Dave worked together in compiling a 2-CD compilation, 100 Flowers Bloom, which was released in the USA including a number of new remixes and previously unreleased live and demo versions of earlier songs. For the future, a live album and even a live video have been rumoured.

One of the few political bands where the sound itself was political. So rigorously ugly! So serious! So sharp! And fonky! cf "What We All Want:" whap-boom-boom ad infinitum. Guitars that sound like the rails of a train.

I also have a probably-too-high tolerance for bands that ape their sound shamelessly (Radio 4 et al).

The two-CD retrospective on Rhino from a few years ago somehow manages to make even the good stuff sound not-so-good.

Sometimes I imagine what would have happened if Go4 had only ever released one single: "I Found That Essence Rare"/"At Home He's A Tourist." I don't know if the world would have lost all _that_ much. (Well, "Love Like Anthrax"...)

Dunno what's up with the supermarket tape -- the next song was "The Lovecats" -- and I'm like, "Whoa."

*"Armalite Rifle" has that particularly good/telling bit - "I disapprove of it. And so does John." There's something endearingly vicarish about "disapprove" in the context.

Don DeLillo will steal this for the sequel to "White Noise," promise.

my band-mates saw them supporting pere ubu (on the new picnic time tour? not sure) and said they were awful, i can remember rob (our bassplayer) imitating their bassplayer, and me thinking "yes that sounds awful"

ubu rob said was the best thing he evah saw

the name "the gang of four" i think is one of greatest evah, and i am quite interested in rehearing the post-entertainment stuff again, to check how much *i* have changed

I'll get me coat.

OK, there are reasons I remember the date but there are very very few other songs I remember the date I first heard them.

Thank you people!

"You don't know how radical "I Love a Man in a Uniform" is until you're walking through a supermarket in the middle of Iowa shopping for vegetables and candy and so on and then you realize the song coming in through the speakers is "ILaMiaU." All products recontextualize themselves under such circumstances."
Don DeLillo will steal this for the sequel to "White Noise," promise.

I just found out that Gang of Four were also on the Karate Kid soundtrack (granted it was later shit-version Gang of Four, but still). Paging DeLillo.

The Yellow EP and Another Day, Another Dollar EP are also good.

HANG ON A SECOND, that's a fantastic song, you nutter. Until the end, when it just kind of forgets that it's over and keeps going.

The greatest moment of like the past year was driving around with two jackasses who'd been wearing Russian military outfits for a week straight for fun when this song came on. "Suddenly this song isn't really f unny anymore." They finally changed their frigging clothes after that. It was beautiful.

http://www.seetickets.com/xxxtickets/event.asp?e%7Cartist=GANG+OF+FOUR

yeah, that live version of "what we all want" is a real monument.

frank kogan called them "teachers' pets" somewhere on ilm, which popped the balloon for me i'm afraid.

"To Hell with Poverty" greatest fucking moment for Gang of Four? I wish I'd been in a band in college just to have played the song in the little smoky bar where all the school bands played Sublime and shit. I love the "Ow ow ow OWWWWW"s and harmonics.

A reunion tour rarely excites me, but since Gof4 was one of my all-time faves, I'm interested, but mostly cuz I've seen them 5 times, but never with Dave Allen on bass.
What's this about a new album? http://www.gangoffour.co.uk/

I wonder what their US dates will look like. I figure 5 or 6 shows apart from that Couchella (sp?) thang in CA.

Thu, 05/05/05
09:00 PM Gang of Four McMenamins Crystal Ballroom Portland, OR

Tue, 05/10/05
07:00 PM Gang of Four Quest Club Minneapolis, MN

Wed, 05/11/05
07:30 PM Gang of Four Metro Chicago, IL

Thu, 05/12/05
07:30 PM Gang of Four Metro Chicago, IL

Sat, 05/21/05
08:00 PM Gang of Four Theatre of Living Arts Philadelphia, PA

Sat, 05/14/05
06:00 PM Gang of Four The Phoenix Concert Theatre Toronto, ON

Well maybe if some of the Brits hurry up and get on here...of course it's only 7 AM there, so...

"New album to come"

HANG ON A SECOND, that's a fantastic song, you nutter. Until the end, when it just kind of forgets that it's over and keeps going. "

hahaha OTM

Also, "I Love a Man in a Uniform" is one of the best songs ever obviously.

Oooh. Didn't hear about that! Do tell!

Hoping for "He'd Send in the Army" ....

By the way, does anyone else think it's kinda fucking lame that this is a Clear Channel tour? I mean, I don't expect everyone to toe the indie line on that but for a band that talked so much political B.S. in their day I find it irksome.

Still, I'm going and (thanks to my...cough...CC connection....I'm going for free!) Yay me!

I'd let it slide, because how else would they be able to tour North America? I doubt Warner Bros. was going to give them tour support for a 25 year old album.

had you paid for it already? I think this is going to happen to me every time I get willcall tickets.

I dunno, I've seen people like The Soft Boys and Richard Thompson, and Mission of Burma do reunion (non Clear Channel) tours at First Ave in recent years...they can't be getting much in the way of tour support.

i didn't even TRY to get tickets, by the time i caught wind i knew it was a done deal.

so BoS if you want to stand outside and smoke i'll watch for you and tell you abt it later...

ha i just looked at the quest website, and maybe it's not sold out! i'll have to think about this, the opinion on this thread seems to = they are on fire.

AGGGHHHGGGHHH

I totally understand that mentality, though! There's nothing wrong with liking the current "imitators" more than the original.

Well, I'm pretty sure Burma didn't have to fly all its band/crew/instruments over from the UK for starters (and the "tour out of Atlanta" story in Our Band Could Be Your Life shows they knew how to tour the US cheap and effectively). As for the Soft Boys, they had a deluxe reissue of a classic album and a reunion LP after 20 years on Matador, so I'm sure they got some money to tour. As for Thompson, I dunno. Does he travel with a band? If not, that cuts down on touring costs.

I don't buy most of that criticism but it was provocative.

Anyway, I've been thinking about going to see them, but I'm really conflicted about it. Could I get some elaboration here from the people who have gone to see them? What does it mean that they sound better now than they did in their prime? Are they still coming from somewhere near the same stance that they did back in the day, or is this just a payday for them? And does that matter? I dunno, maybe they've evolved into something better and I'd be missing out if I didn't go. Anyone?

I can say that Gang of Four live was probably the best rock show I've seen since the last time I saw Sleater Kinney (several years).

but they all gave shoutouts to david allen at the end

I found it hard to tell at times how much they were really enjoying it. Andy didn't seem very happy for some reason. It was wild to watch Dave, Jon and Andy move all over the stage at the same time and somehow avoid bumping into each other! You can kind of see why a band like that might not get along very well. Personally I love "I Parade Myself" so I'm glad they played that one. The way they played Damaged Goods sounded soo good - like they'd added a little something you couldn't quite put a finger on.

But $22.50 ticket price + $12.50 worth of Ticketmaster bullshit + $2.50 mailing fee + gas to Chicago + tolls + parking near Metro = $50 + time spent driving on freeway and in Chicago traffic, so I might sit this one out and just go catch the last film of the Ozu series that's playing on campus instead. But thanks for the advices anyway, y'all.

Gang of Four rises again

By alexander varty

Publish Date: 5-May-2005
The guys in Gang of Four have reunited for the first time in more than 20 years, and they evidently couldn’t be more delighted about it.

The guys in Gang of Four have reunited for the first time in more than 20 years, and they evidently couldn’t be more delighted about it.

Twenty years ago, Gang of Four bassist Dave Allen would have scoffed at the notion that he’d ever join singer Jon King, guitarist Andy Gill, and drummer Hugo Burnham in reforming the world’s best-ever agit-pop band. Even more risible would be the notion that in order to do so, he’d be working out with a personal trainer to make sure his middle-aged body was up to the rigours of the road.

“It’s really funny,” says the former U.K. resident, reached at home in Portland, Oregon. “When I was in my 20s, I did kind of mock the idea of Mick Jagger still playing when he was 50 years old, and now I’m doing it. It’s like, well, ‘Oops!’ People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones—at Rolling Stones, even.

“So I began a workout regime with a trainer starting in February of this year, because after the U.K. tour I realized that I wasn’t as fit as I thought I was,” he continues. “Even though we pulled it off and it was great, I ended up catching the flu, and I just felt, ‘Well, shit, if I’m going to do this, I’m going to do it properly.’ But we’re all in good shape, really, although Hugo is more overweight than he should be. But that’s his personal choice. I mean, he didn’t go out and get a trainer.”

For a second, there’s a flash of the combative spirit that both animated the original Gang of Four lineup and that led to Allen’s departure in 1982. (King, Gill, and Burnham soldiered on with a string of replacement bassists until 1984.) Otherwise, the veteran musician sounds like he’s mellowed considerably since the days of “At Home He’s a Tourist” and “Damaged Goods” but not so much that he’s going to let the Gang of Four’s legacy be usurped by all the younger groups—including the Rapture, Franz Ferdinand, and the Faint—currently claiming them as a major influence.

“All these bands that the press talk about that are taking from the punky-funky-jerky sound of the Gang of Four… It’s all well and good, musically, but they’re not doing anything lyrically,” he says. “They’re not saying anything. Even with Bloc Party, which gets thrown around as an example of a good Gang of Four–sounding band, it just sounds like sloganeering. Which we were adamantly against, just vehemently against. We did not stand up and throw our fists in the air and go, ‘Kill the rich! Bring down the government!’ There was a certain subtle irony in everything we did.”

Irony, yes, and a degree of brutal physicality. So much so, in fact, that if the Gang’s Saturday (May 7) appearance at the Commodore Ballroom is anything near as powerful as its sweat-drenched appearance there in the early ’80s, a cathartic good time will be had by all.

Allen, for one, thinks the revived Gang can deliver.

“The job we have at hand, as we keep reminding ourselves, is that we have to be as good, if not better, than we were the first time around,” he notes. “So that was the immediate challenge we set for ourselves, and it worked. We’ve worked really hard in rehearsals; we’re very demanding on each other. But what’s also happened is that we’ve matured. We’re just as volatile, but we’re less quick to fly off the handle, which I think is very important. Now before we start attacking each other there seems to be more of a pause, and then we get some discussion going. But that just comes with age. Three of us have kids, for instance, and if you can handle that, you can handle a band, ’cause that’s just about as bad as it gets.”

hahaha

...yup...it was white with a black front door. jon king used a short baseball bat type club to utterly destroy it. again...i can't urge people enough to catch them should they play your town in the next two weeks. i was really surprised the commodore ballroom was not more than 75% full.

Did he start banging on it while it was on a platform of some kind and then continued to bang on it as it fell on the floor of the stage? What happened to the microwave on your end? I recall a roadie also conveniently moving the microphone closer when it fell on the floor.

xpost - brilliant! A destroyed microwave from Gang of 4! Next trend in music will be...toaster ovens on stage!

(You can like !!! better if you wish, though.. no one's going to stop you there)

(They were a really weird disco-punk band in that they fully integrated a Syd Barrett/"Nuggets" Acid Bubblegum element to their post-punk-disco that was pretty genius.)

"Hit Me with Your Rhythm Stick" and "I Love A Man in Uniform" musically are sorta in the same ballpark. I like 'em both.

I like Ian and the G04 but for the most part, it's kinda apples and oranges. I'll take Entertainment over New Boots, if I haveta choose.

What they do have in common is they mixed new wave and disco. Although Ian Dury's music hall/pubrock was of course a different kind of new wave from GoF's postpunk.

I think I have not heard their music for years, but I have a feeling it is rubbish, also.

Radio 4 looked like the fucking Mighty Mighty Bosstones after weight loss and a class in Disco-Wave-Punk 101. (Sorry to the Radio 4 lovers.) They're not terrible live, but I'd punch their mugs if I had to deal with them in a bar or, oh say, a dressing room.

Not quite praise there, is it?

i missed radio 4, thank god

Gang of Four I thought were pretty fantasic...a few flubs, but what energy and just the sense of "wow this is what the REAL THING looks/sounds like"

radio 4 can eat a bag of bongo dicks.

1/ Took everyone's advise and walked in just to see the last song by Radio 4. Not terrible live may be true, but seemed way too calculated and faux-earnest. Plus, it didn't help to have Ben Stiller fronting the band
2/ Reminded about how many great drum riffs Hugeo had (has)
3/ Shocked at the intensity of the Gang of Four. I've seen them now 6 times, and this may have been the best. Part of that is the minusing of Sara Lee and the addition of Dave Allen, but part was the abandonement of playing near the end of a tour that may be their last, FOREVER. They seemed older, and that sure hampered Jon's gyrating rhythm into the show, but he sure made up with it with sheer relentlessness.
4/ Little hints that there's still difficulty between them, esp. Andy and Jon.
5/ A bit surprised that Dave played with a pick. When I saw him with Shriekback, he was tremendous, and played without a pick. This time around, the bass sound was way too tinny and had little bottom.
6/ I expected there to be more youngsters there.
7/ I became more solid with the idea of reunions. After last night, and seeing Wire a couple of years ago, I imagined how great it'd be if the young wannabeez could sit at desks, watching these two aged bands play, and LEARN HOW TO DO IT RIGHT.
8/ Was surprised to heard something offa Shrinkwrapped.
9/ wtf, He'd Sent In The Army,? That was amazing!

Because of this thread, I'd expected greatness, and got it.

If you didn't believe me, Ben Rayner said the same thing in this morning's Toronto Star.

"To Hell with Poverty" was the greatest live music moment I've ever been involved with.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Pardon my French.

Worth the 25 fucking dollars.

Goddamn.......my neck hurts.

Anyway, yes, he saw show..

"All that fell away with the set's final song, 1981's "To Hell With Poverty"; as they performed it, everyone in the room held their breath. It belongs to the handful of greatest single-song live performances I've ever seen."

Unreal.

From upthread:

I thought that their sociopolitical stance was what made their aesthetic work. Isn't the tension inherent in their being a pop band critical of pop commodity-selling as an enterprise what makes them still worth listening to today, not just that Dave Allen could really play bass [...] isn't that just the thing that keeps them from being totally rigid and unfun, that they express the confusion and conflict of "false consciousness" and don't just present a line of dogma, like other bands of their ilk? [...] it seems like this is the stuff is what really makes them artists worth listening to and thinking about [...] Are they still coming from somewhere near the same stance that they did back in the day, or is this just a payday for them? And does that matter?

Discuss, please. I mean, they're still totally compelling live singing vowel sounds, but what do people make of the (rest of the) lyrical content in This Year Of Our Lord 2005?

Over on the Rip It Up Thread he seemed to have some. Glad to read that he liked that GO4 show in Seattle.

Regarding the lyrics, criticize 'em if you want, but I think one can be more generous in judging pop music lyrics than in analyzing poetry and literature. Creative music can often make up for less artistic prose.

Damn, it's hard to do post-punk as good as Gang of Four. It really is.

Though many have tried.

And many have failed.

Can anybody transcribe the line from "Why Theory?" that follows "Distant thunder from the East"?

It sounds like "Won't disturb, our mornings go on"

but that seems a bit clumsy.

Now how did you know that is my fave song of theirs and I played it last night? I always thought it was something like "won't disturb our morning car wash" hahaha I'm probably wrong.

I can't find any of the lyrics to Solid Gold anywhere. I also thought it could be "Won't disturb our morning couplings".

Perhaps he just sings "Wun dudurb ah wah wah wah"

Makes sense -- he knows little about sex.

I can see I'm not going to get an answer to this.

Gosh, I feel for you, Phil, but really there's only so many times I can play that bit on my CD player before I figure "fuck it, this groove is the shit, let's just play the song". Maybe some Britishers can help us? Are you British Phil? Is that our problem?

Okay but I've listened to it again now and I'm convinced it's not "couplings". The ending syllable necessary for that just isn't there. There's not even a "P" sound. Goddamnit Britishers help us?!

Yes Bimble. I'm as British as Noel Coward flying a Spitfire over the white cliffs of Dover (to the sound of Elgar).

I think the word "mornings" is correct. It's the last two syllables really. It's quite frustrating, as it sounds like it there should be a great lyric in there.

But yes, I just love the way this song starts with a few syncopated metallic chops, and then just hits this awesome driving gear, like some monster truck, and then the energy dissipates into unsyncopated metallic chops, which then get themselves together rhythm-wise, for the next awesome slam on the pedal.

It's one of the most satisfying experiences in this thing we call "rock".

Hahah. Crikey! You must be a music writer with talk like that! ;)

V. happy you're British, though, at least we've got that angle on this lyric covered.

But Phil, I hate to say it but I'm not going to lose sleep over it if we can't figure out this lyric. The song is so fucking good, dude. In the end, it doesn't matter one jot.

My job is way more interesting than music writing. As for the '4, I shall no doubt continue my quest alone.....

I adore the first 3 Go4 albums as well as a couple of later tracks but I've gotta stand up for _Shrinkwrapped_. It's a stormer of an album (aside from a couple of Andy's spoken word tracks that kinda disrupt the flow) highlighted by "I Parade Myself" which stands with the first 3 albums.

No discussion about _Return The Gift_? I must admit I couldn't understand the purpose of rerecording material that was already perfect but some folks think it surpassed the originals.

Well I'm surprised you're not a music writer, Phil, for I think what you've written here about this song is really cool and talented. I know *I* couldn't have written that.

Mr. Odd! You're going to stand up for Shrinkwrapped! That's wonderful! We are on the same team, mate! No one ever seems to stick up for that one. I agree "I Parade Myself" is the best thing on that.

I still haven't heard Return The Gift.

I have bits of RTG from emusic, its pretty good.

anyone else think the versions of the songs on the damaged goods ep are preferable to the ones on the album? they sound more vital and less practised. the production is a lot less neat too.

Oh loads, no doubt. I also prefer the single version of "At home he feels like a tourist" (less overdubs)

Huh, I never knew the single version of Tourist was different! Is it available on CD anywhere?

I too appreciate the Damaged Goods EP. "Armalite Rifle" in particular - I love the production of that.

Gang of Two

Allen & Burham leave

http://www.pampelmoose.com/mspeaks/index.php

This is when I tip my hat to the ilxor who put "I Parade Myself" in his top "11 songs of the moment, fuck" or whatever thread that was. I listened to that song and the title track from "Shrinkwrapped" this week at work and I thought I was either going to levitate into the air or kick the shit out of anyone who bothered me in my headphones. I tried to sing quietly. That shit is lethal. Just fucking lethal.

Miss you, Bimble. Peace.

So.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=107280105973132&index=1

http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/gangoffour

Don’t just listen to Gang Of Four’s new album - Be part of its launch

Greetings from London.

We’re emerging blinking into the light after many months locked in Andy’s studio, clutching Gang of Four’s new album: Content. Later this summer you’ll be able to buy it on download or CD. But we’re offering weirder and more wonderful options to a limited number of GO4 aficionados. What about taking a helicopter trip to this summer’s Glastonbury Festival with us? Or you might enjoy a listen to our first ever gig (recorded in Leeds in May 1977), provided to you on a cassette inside a Walkman individually decorated by Andy and Jon. A private view of an exhibition of GO4 art combined with a gig in London’s ICA this June are just some of the other possibilities.

We’re also starting a ‘Pledgers Only Updates’ page where we’ll share videos, gigs, conversations, demos, rough mixes, previously unreleased songs from the archives, and also words and photos.

A share of any profits from pledges will go to Amnesty International http://www.amnesty.org.uk/ who campaign for internationally recognised human rights for all, and Plan International http://plan-international.org/ who promote child rights to end child poverty.

We look forward to seeing you soon.

Andy Jon Mark Thomas

'Content' on CD £10 - 350 left
T-Shirt + Signed Standard CD £15 - available
New Album Artwork T-Shirt £17 - 200 left
Signed CD + Jon's Spotify Playlist of the week £22 - 10 left
Signed & numbered rare white label vinyl copy of album £30 - 240 left
Box of 4 re-issue badges + Signed CD £35 - 50 left
Vinyl Version Of The Record Cut Live At Metropolis Studio £35 - 250 left
Ultimate Content Can - Signed & Numbered £45 - available
Question and Answer / Discussion Evening £50 - 80 left
GoF Concert & Historical Exhibition - Private View £55 - 240 left
Signed CD + Hand written lyric sheet £55 - 25 left
Signed & numbered rare white label vinyl + lyrics £65 - 10 left
Acknowledgment for sponsoring the recording of 'Content' £75 - 100 left
Raw Footage from our US tour £100 - 10 left
£100 bundle - Private View, Ultimate Content Can & T-Shirt £100 - 50 left
Laminate - entrance to any GoF show in 2010 / 2011! £125 - 30 left
The Lost Cassette - GoF first ever show in cassette Walkman £175 - 20 left
Album playback in London studio £190 - 5 left
Lyric Clinic £250 - 5 left
Authentically damaged signed guitar £450 - 2 left
Helicopter - Home to London After Glasto With GoF £950 - 4 left
Helicopter - London To Glasto With GoF £950 - 4 left
Andy Gill mixes your track £1,500 - 3 left

How about that.

This is when I tip my hat to the ilxor who put "I Parade Myself" in his top "11 songs of the moment, fuck" or whatever thread that was. I listened to that song and the title track from "Shrinkwrapped" this week at work and I thought I was either going to levitate into the air or kick the shit out of anyone who bothered me in my headphones. I tried to sing quietly. That shit is lethal. Just fucking lethal.

― Sacriligiously Dead (Bimble), Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:32 PM (10 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

That was me, Bimble. Love you.

So, wait, is the new album available now for donors?

I see many bands going this route, which I think is cool, and a nice way to support your favorite artist and make sure the money goes straight to their pocket. But the irony of GO4 doing it is not lost.

So, wait, is the new album available now for donors?

I can't quite tell. I will not be donating for this launch. I will be acquiring the album on my own and possibly donating $10 to Amnesty International on my own.

I see many bands going this route, which I think is cool, and a nice way to support your favorite artist and make sure the money goes straight to their pocket. But the irony of GO4 doing it is not lost.

Irony is Gang of Four's very raison d'etre, I believe.

(Please shoot me for writing "raison d'etre" kthxbye)

Newsflash-Gang of Four don't like Radio 4 so much

― Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Monday, May 9, 2005 4:24 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
haha, are you going to spill the beans and tell the people why, Ms. Timmons?

― donut debonair (donut), Monday, May 9, 2005 4:26 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Let's hear it, Miss Brown or Mr. Donut. This is relevant to my interests.

Even with some lyrics that were kind of undercooked and/or cod-marxist (and others that were flat-out brilliant), Gang of Four were and still are primarily about violent contradictions, expressed performatively (sonically in a multitude of ways, in their "career moves", etc.) as well as discursively; and that, for me, is why they fucking rule all hell, even now when by all logic and history they should not, the fact that they can still BRING IT onstage being merely the evidence. Let us give them lots of 2005 American money. The end.

― box of socks, Sunday, May 22, 2005 6:33 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

That was me. I still think this.

Judging by the band's recent Tweets, they have been recording within the last few weeks so I doubt it is in the can just yet.

They just finished it, per Gill's tweet of March 31:

"think i have just finished the mix. it's spare, true, very odd, magical and political"

Scared now.

Re: "Shrinkwrapped" love, count me in on it. I also echo John D's thoughts

Songs of the Free is utterly, utterly great. Hated by all GoF fans on its release. Visionary in its post-punk-as-synth-popisms.

And I've got time for a few tracks from "Hard", especially "Is It Love".

Very excited to hear the new stuff. They released a single called "Second Life" a couple of years ago which was great.

I love in "Anthrax" that bit where the two opposing voices suddenly come into sync with "...beetle on its back". i used to simulate the same effect by watching a hockey game while simultaneously listening to the same game on the radio. The two commentators would be talking indecipherable gibberish, but every now and then they'd both say something like "...cleared but not out!" at the very same time.

Haven't heard "Second Life." I was told that it wasn't all that, and I didn't want to hear anything that might disappoint.

I loved Songs of the Free -- not as much as Entertainment!, but I REALLY dug it. Bought it the day it came out IIRC.

I don't love Shrinkwrapped but I can get into "I Parade Myself" with a vengeance. "Tattoo" is aight too. The rest, meh.

I have 0 time for anything from Hard. *shudder*

That bit from "Anthrax" DID MY HEAD IN in 1982.

gang of four in wii commercial

I was all fuuuuuuuuu and my girlfriend was like so what

"the problem, with leisure, what to do, for--PLAY X-BOX

It's actually Microsoft Kinect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWiCu3zT4mE&feature=related

and it's that song

renounce all sin and vice (city)

This x-box gives me migraine

armalite console

So is this perhaps the single most ironic promotional use of a song since Reagan campaigned on Born in the USA?

I was all fuuuuuuuuu and my girlfriend was like so what

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, November 2, 2010 11:43 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark

this ^

^^^ pair of fuckin cash sittas up in this

Full album stream of Connect, on NPR.

You mean "Content". I'm still processing it, it feels like it's missing something.

It's missing hooks (my first listen appraisal). It wants to be old-school Gang of 4, but it's not.

renounce all sin and vice (city)

― am0n, Tuesday, November 2, 2010 6:37 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark

lol

I've been listening to Entertainment and Solid Gold a few times in the past few weeks. The production puts it in it's time, but the tunes are just as fresh now as they were 30 years ago. I've always thought that "What We All Want" was the prototype for a whole lot of 90s rock.

Doug Carrion who was the bassist at one point in both The Decendants and Dag Nasty was the guy who tuned me onto the Gang of Four working at a record store in Bloomington way back around 1990.

Listening to it on NPR: strong first track, second's more of a slog, some other tedious sections of some other tracks, but could be a killer EP, at least. The other voices are always welcome, and should be used more often, but King shows no vocal strain, and as long as the whole thing's not too lyrics-centric, and the guitar gets to shape the groove, it works, as in days of yore. But speaking of days of yore, check their BBC sessions, those grabbed me even more than Entertainment.

PS: Content has a stronger finish than start, always appreciated.

Admittedly I'd had a few ales officer, but I was listening to the album (not the stream, streams are horrible) last night and thought it was sounding pretty good. It's kind of a given that they're not going to ever top their early stuff, but I was actually enjoying it more than the new Wire...

I think the ales have impaired your judgement. The new Wire is far, far better than the new Gang Of Four, and I lurve both of them to death but _Content_ just doesn't deliver consistently. The opener and closer and "Pay For The Farm" are the only ones that stick in my head.

I reviewed Content for BurningAmbulance.com, and Dave Allen got in touch with me on Twitter to tell me how much he agreed with my criticisms of the record.

Good review, it explains what I hear. The funny thing is, they put out a single a couple of years ago, "Second Life" which included Dave Allen on the recording or at least in the development, and it's an ace tune. Ah well.

Without going back to compare to the brand name's prime time product, I still think the best tracks stand on their own, and the worst tracks fall on their own (fairly clunky rhythm section,yeah). Not surprising departed Dave wouldn't agree, though.

x-post

Unperson, agree with you re Content but then at the end you say that Gill and King did not need this one to pay their rent--- are you their accountant? Or were you speaking metaphorically, or do you know how much they got from the x-box commercial and other things?

I wasn't speaking metaphorically; Gill is a producer, and King is, of all things, an advertising executive.

lol @ king's bio on that site

Jon was lead singer, co-writer and producer for the legendary "Gang of Four". His music has been widely used in film and TV, including "Marie Antoinette" (1997), "the Manchurian Candidate" (1996), "The OC" and "The Karate Kid" (1984), among others. He won Mojo magazines' "Inspiration to Music" award in 2005 & Deisel/U's "Lifetime achievement in Music" award 2005.

the most important highlights of Go4's career: being featured on bad movie soundtracks, winning a Mojo award, etc.

not that surprising really

what's he supposed to say in an advertising website bio? That the band refused to play Top Of The Pops? That Franz Ferdinand liked them? That he still does a Frogger dance around the stage while wearing a suit jacket with no shirt underneath?

He is supposed to quote the phrases on the cover of the first album as well as Situationalists(however you spell that--paging Griel Marcs)

The matador is saying, 'You know, we're both in the entertainment business, we have to give the audience what they want. I don't want to do this, but I earn double the amount I'd get if I were in a 9-to-5 job.' The bull is saying, 'I think that at some point we have to take responsibility for our actions.'

Yep, and I meant Situationists and Greil Marcus.

Having listened a bunch of times sans ales, I still like this album quite a bit. Long-term, new Wire probably has more staying power. It's tasteful, catchy, and generally avoids mistakes. But...best bits of Content (and there are more than a couple) played at volume (nice bass sound, regardless of who's playing it) get my pulse racing. And I was around for the first coming of Go4. It's odd reading reviews that presume that people will only know the bands influenced by Go4...I guess that's inevitable, but it still seems odd. That sort of thing doesn't happen to the Beatles.

A lot of the best aspects of the album are visceral, so again, the stream just doesn't cut it. Spoon had the same problem last year...

I thought the new Wire was overly placid and boring. Loved the first two Read & Burn EPs, saw them live in 2000 and enjoyed it, but everything since has been kind of a letdown.

Not that I'm not mildly sympathetic, but Dave Allen doesn't seem like the most neutral party, especially after reading:

http://iamdaveallen.com/thinking/2011/1/14/rick-moody-and-me-a-conversation.html

I'm liking Content more and more...

i think dave allen's otm in his complaints & glad he left

lol @ this, though

The new Kanye West album My Dark Beau­ti­ful Twisted Fan­tasy is a remark­able piece of work, an “event,” an expo­si­tion on early East coast rap deliv­ered in 2010 just as pop­u­lar music was fad­ing in its cre­ativ­ity.

Yes, just the other day I was talking to a fifteen year old pop fan who was bemoaning the fact that there isn't good footage of Gang of Four working in the studio in 2008...

"To have cap­tured our efforts and work­ing meth­ods and then pushed that raw footage live to the Web, I believe, would have cre­ated quite a stir. Footage like that lives for­ever and if it were only avail­able after­ward on YouTube, the only place it could be seen over and over again, the traf­fic would have been huge."

Honestly, he's well spoken and all, but his attempts to be "delicate" are pretty indelicate. I do like that he gets his music from Amazon and not eMusic. God, actually there's a lot in the interview to like...

weird to hear them in a commercial for Kinect :/

so, he used to work for eMusic?

Also, did you spot the pomplemoose link?

This thread's reemergence led me to pop on a CD I got in the bargain bin, years ago, "Mall." It kinda sucked... Guess that's why it was in the bargain bin. Any suggestions on a good CD by them?

Entertainment.

Just saw them on David Letterman, performing a new tune. And wow, were they weak! The new song showed all of the Gang Of Four's strengths - agitpop with great hooks, hints of dub and funk and open spaces, catchy-but-minimal lyrical and melodic themes - to have, well, mostly into ether. It's weird that they've chosen to present their revival as highly reminiscent of Entertainment, when they clearly have lost most of the characteristics that made that record great, and when they just plain look silly trying it now. (Why not 'revise' the general sound of Solid Gold, which would probably be more successful, in a sense.

Total embarrassment, I thought. I remember when singing Jon King 'shake it up' on stage was effective, back when it seemed like, hell, this is what he's chosen to do, instead of being a young rising star advertising exec or something. Now he seems like a poorly aging advertising exec just slumming it and looking like a buffoon. I actually spat out my drink when I saw his wedding band, 'cause it made me think, here's another deeply conventional prat, cynically going for the almighty dollar. What a way to smear a great body of work.

I now respect Dave Allen even more, and Hugo's a fine bloke too.

this year's tour should be called Another Day, Another Dollar 2011

Gonna skip their W. DC show tonight but I will always fondly look back on those 2 gigs I saw back when (in 79 to 81)

There's a weird effect on the guitar that isn't on the album. Letterman clip doesn't look particularly bad to me...the video for Farm is much more embarrassing (in terms of stage moves). Look, they're not going to redo Entertainment, any more than YMG is going to redo Colossal Youth, etc. Content is very good, not great. I'm happy with it.

Dave Allen = I got cut out of the finances therefore this sucks. Sorry, but it's pretty damn obvious from his own take on things.

Here's the Farm video...pretty sonically different from Letter Man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVQ2Y688dUQ

Stage moves, not good.

Dave Allen = I got cut out of the finances therefore this sucks. Sorry, but it's pretty damn obvious from his own take on things.

nah, pretty obvious he's got his head in the right place! took the last shred of Go4 credibility out the door with him.

I totally don't get that. He quit, not when he decided the music sucked, but when:

"The band’s man­ager helped me reach a deci­sion when he called me one after­noon in early 2008 to dis­cuss the “small issue of the song­writ­ing” as he called it. He pre­ceded to lay out the grand idea that as Gill and King were “writ­ing” the new songs then I would have no claim to any music pub­lish­ing splits. I had already left the band in my mind before I even responded to his ludi­crous claim.

On and off dur­ing 2006, 2007 and 2008 we were cre­at­ing new musi­cal ideas fol­low­ing the same pat­tern of 1977/1978, as described above. To be told by some­one I have absolutely no respect for, that I would have the non-option of take it or leave it with regard to music writ­ing and pub­lish­ing splits, I very eas­ily chose to leave on the spot."

The distinction between "I had already left the band in my mind" and "I..chose to leave on the spot" is just great. I mean, seriously. We're grown ups here. Is it not obvious what the problem was...

"I'm old, nobody appreciates my fluid bassline that *totally* makes Anthrax, and I'm making good money on the side anyway..."

i always thought this band's "glory years" were overrated by critics who liked their dumb sloganeering, but the music was OK. if that letterman performance was an accurate representation of their new music, hoo boy.

"embarrassment" is a good word for it. maybe not strong enough.

Oh hell no, their glory years were NOT overrated. "Entertainment" is still truly astounding and worthy of it's legendary status, with "Solid Gold" just a step below. After that, still great stuff but not on the same level. Dave Allen is a man of integrity, I get from his comments that the writing credit thing was just the last straw.

And they were so great live during those glory years

Holy goddamn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K19jPwpP5XY

well that made my morning!

okay, wait

what

If what I've been able to deduce is correct, from this page:

http://www.gamelan.org/directories/directoryjapan.html

Here's some backstory:

Name of Ensemble: Sekar Melati
Instruments: Javanese
Repertoire: Traditional, originally composed
Contact: Ms. Hitomi Ozeki
5-12-2 Kaminakaya-cho, Kakamigahara City
Gifu Prefecture 504-0926
email: ✧.✧.hit✧✧✧.o-1✧✧✧@a✧✧.o✧✧.n✧.j✧
Web site:
Narrative:
The group representative Hitomi Ozeki studied Gamelan in Jakarta and then founded Sekar Melati in Gifu prefecture in June 2000. Currently this community-based group has 8 members. It has been introducing Javanese traditional music as well as its original compositions to this region at museums, schools, art galleries and various other locations. Mr. Hiroshi Ietaka (Marga Sari, Osaka) also gives instruction regularly.

That is the coolest thing ever.

Have already sent this video to a bunch of people. Gamelan Gof4 is pretty terrific. I wonder what the rest of the set was?

Un-freakin-believable. The woman on the far left is really grooving to it!

I mean, really... I want to hear what King/Gill/Allen/Burnham think!

Damn, they should open for them on their next tour!

Allen retweeted it so he knows about it, at least!

This is sick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUSw_2jkDjM&feature=youtu.be

So skinny, such baggy clothes

Holy cow. One my larger life regrets, never seeing them live in either original or reunion modes.

Was about to say, I'm so glad I saw the original line-up reunion.

OK, apparently the line-up is now Andy Gill and a rhythm section? Gang Of One!

haha wait misread - there's a new lead singer

Is this a band whose rediscovery in the oughts has already been forgotten? I can't put my finger on it, maybe it's our sped-up recycling.

Okay, the Andy Gill plus some other dudes GO4 will be here in March. I've never seen them. Do I go?

Nah.

I don't know if I can dismiss it that easily. Now I'm listening to some 2013 youtubes as I type, and they sound really good even though they're 75% a tribute band. His guitar playing is so huge to me, I don't know how I've never seen them after all these years.

I don't know how much the rerecordings on Return the Gift reflect Andy Gill's live sound these days, but I'll say it: most of the songs benefit from modern sonics.

I mean, I'm digging this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CFWGE-dT24

There's just no way I could do that. The above screen grab alone says it all.

When in doubt, finagle a spot on the guest list! I'm in, totally realizing this is NOT Gang of Four but approaching in the same way I would a chance to finally see, say, Wilko Johnson and some Gen Y kids touring as "Dr. Feelgood."

Well, considering I last saw the band in its full reunited glory, I'm not sure what would be gained from this exercise. I mean, I know I can go, for free, but what's the point? The songs are great, and they're great when I'm sitting on the couch at home.

When in doubt, finagle a spot on the guest list! I'm in, totally realizing this is NOT Gang of Four but approaching in the same way I would a chance to finally see, say, Wilko Johnson and some Gen Y kids touring as "Dr. Feelgood."

― Deliciously hard yet very accessible (Dan Peterson), Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:07 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ha, the current lineup of "Dr. Feelgood" has NO original members, despite the fact that three of the original four are still alive.

No idea there *is* a current Feelgoods lineup, that's amazing!

So, apparently they have a new single?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ4dW6KKrao

Has there been any discussion about this elsewhere?

This is Andy Gill and some scrubs. Not Gang of Four.

Still seems weird that its "Gang of Four" with only one original member Andy Gill

http://www.gigwise.com/news/97485/new-gang-of-four-track-features-alison-mosshartThe What Happens Next full tracklisting is below:

1. Where The Nightingale Sings
2. Broken Talk (feat. Alison Mosshart)
3. Isle of Dogs
4. England’s In My Bones (feat. Alison Mosshart)
5. Dying Rays (feat. Herbert Grönemeyer) English version
6. Obey The Ghost Of The Colony
7. First World Citizen
8. Stranded
9. Graven Image (feat. Robbie Furze)
10. Dead Souls (feat. Hotei)
11. Dying Rays (feat. Herbert Grönemeyer) German version

I didn't know that. Andy is arguably the most important member of GoF but yes, it feels wrong to cash in on his former band name instead of creating a new project of his own, which this is.

It made sense that apart from the guitar this didn't sound anything like GoF.

The Viet Cong album released this month sounds more like Gang of Four than Gang of Four:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUHCyhE-s9M

Andy is arguably the most important member of GoF

Go4 was Andy Gill, Jon King and some scrubs from 1983-2004, 2004-2012.

Though I think Gang of One is a perfectly cool band name.

"Bass/No Tremble" sounds like a Jon King line.

Sara Lee = No Scrub

I don't know how much the rerecordings on Return the Gift reflect Andy Gill's live sound these days, but I'll say it: most of the songs benefit from modern sonics.

― TTAGGGTTAGGG (Sanpaku), Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:46 AM (5 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I kinda love most of those rerecordings.

The return the gift versions of songs of the free cuts crush the originals IMO

Admittedly I may have heard the gift versions first but OMG that "we live as we dream alone" is so good

seeing the "new" gang of four is a really weird experience

the riffs still sound good but it's hard to shake the feeling that i'm just seeing some random band covering GoF songs

Because you more or less are?

RIP Andy Gill...

Andy Gill. pic.twitter.com/DHNCz5lAe6

— GANG OF FOUR (@gangof4official) February 1, 2020

: (

RIP

Aw. I was always bummed he kept the band going as the only member, and was further bummed by that recent interview where he threw all his old bandmates under the bus and took credit for every single element of Go4. But that band was incredible. I got to see the original lineup at Coachella, back when festivals inspired such things.

Lovely post from his wife, and I've seen numerous posts from others who said he was a charming and engaging fellow.

This pain is the price of extraordinary joy, almost three decades with the best man in the world. https://t.co/otsiVqxK36

— Catherine Mayer (@catherine_mayer) February 1, 2020

But yeah, that split between him and the rest, that was fierce. I saw Jon and Hugo -- with Dave in the audience -- do a presentation at PopCon the other year which was great and also left it clear exactly *why* Andy wasn't in the room. People are tangled, relationships just as much if not more so.

rip

They wowed me and my then fellow age 20 pals when we first saw them in DC in 81 (I had somehow missed an earlier appearance with the Buzzcocks). What an innovative and powerful guitar sound at the time. Pretty sure Guy of Fugazi was listening to those records. Alas others were as well. It's funny seeing on twitter those quotes from Anthony Keidis'memoir how Andy Gill got irritated with the Red Hot Chili Peppers when he produced them in 1984. Gill became their enemy because he didn't like their sound.

over and over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRjjVFC-oG4

I saw them in 1982 at an outdoor show and "To Hell with Poverty" at stunning volume in the shadows of oaks and high-rise dormitories was a high point of my undergraduate education

My brother has just texted me, "Respiratory illness after touring Asia". I think I'd hold fire on that one.

Gill's performance on "Natural's Not in It" has never lost its power to enthral me. He remains almost unique in the electric guitarist fraternity in his preference for solid-state amplifiers, which provided him with the clean, trebly attack that was his calling card. RIP.

RIP

A statement from Jon King, Hugo Burnham, Dave Allen – Gang of Four. pic.twitter.com/9fRqDT12CH

— Gang Of Four 77-81 (@gangoffour77_81) February 1, 2020

I love putative sellout "Is This Love"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYXZQLaU_ig

Is It Love obv

“To Hell With Poverty “ is great. Before that here they are in Zagreb in 1981. Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUSw_2jkDjM

What a great find, that's awesome.

Jon Langford: "Just wandered round a Jamaican town looking for some WiFi and found out Andy Gill of the Gang of Four has died - such a giant force in my life over the last 43 years even when I didn’t see him or talk to him - totally stunned."

https://www.talkhouse.com/andy-gill-gang-of-four-talks-with-jon-langford-the-mekons-for-the-talkhouse-music-podcast/?fbclid=IwAR1ol0GNQvMNAIui0H4hKhTe40ZrNSEvhHa05hnqTOo6WebuDG1I4j898KU

1st 3 Gang of 4 albums were removed from Spotify US last year

There's some incredible perspective in that interview I just posted. At one point Langford asks Gill if he saw the Sex Pistols when they played Leeds, and he says no, and Langford says "me neither!" They both claim they never even bought the Pistols record, they sort of got the gist of it just from reading about it. But Langford brought up a good point, something I'd never thought about before, how the closest thing he could find to what he liked was glam, but by the later '70s Bowie had gone to America, Roxy Music had broken up, there was a void. He and Gill cite (like many others) Dr. Feelgood as one of the few groups there to fill the void. In fact, Langford says he heard the Go4 first described as "the Velvet Underground meets Dr. Feelgood."

Gill for his part cites seeing Beefheart, The Band and Bob Marley as more influential to him than the British punk rock scene; he and Jon King had apparently gone to NY in 1976 and met the usual suspects, and realized that these less flamboyant, intellectual US "punk" people like Patti Smith or Television showed there was a way forward for their own ideas.

Anyway, it's a great listen.

XP There are still several classic-era tracks up on their "This Is" playlist--they're just all sourced from a bunch of rando genre playlists.

Was also at the reformed Go4 Coachella show. They completely justified any nostalgic reverence, still vital and original, compared to some more current bands caught that weekend. Went three years in a row, caught a lot of great music.

I saw them in 1982 at an outdoor show and "To Hell with Poverty" at stunning volume in the shadows of oaks and high-rise dormitories was a high point of my undergraduate education

I saw them 23 years later at the 930 Club in DC. I've seen many great shows over the years but the single greatest *momemt* I've experienced at a live show was when Go4 played "To Hell with Poverty" there. An ecstatic surge went through the crowd unlike anything I've ever experienced. What a moment, what a song. RIP Andy.

Wow @ that Zagreb footage - shot for TV?

He and Gill cite (like many others) Dr. Feelgood as one of the few groups there to fill the void.

Andy Gill always acknowledged Dr. Feelgood as an influence, Wilko primarily, I mean just look at how he holds his guitar and moves on stage, not to mention his guitar technique.

1st 3 Gang of 4 albums were removed from Spotify US last year

That will explain why, when I attempted to download Solid Gold and Songs of the Free to listen to during my commutes this week I could only download a few tracks from each, whereas I was able to download the whole of Hard.

Anyway, I find it very difficult to cry (the last time I did was on Christmas) but I wept when I found out. Gang of Four are #3 on my list of favorite musical artists of all time and the last time any of the band members from my personal Top Five died was when Mick Karn died in January 2011, and I'm still reeling from that years and years on from that event. I also got a chance to "friend" Andy on FB and he gave me a very succinct but still heartfelt greeting on my birthday last year, which was way too kind of him to do. RIP. I'll mourn him forever.

"But yeah, that split between him and the rest, that was fierce. I saw Jon and Hugo -- with Dave in the audience -- do a presentation at PopCon the other year which was great and also left it clear exactly *why* Andy wasn't in the room. People are tangled, relationships just as much if not more so."\

care to expand on this, Msieu Raggett? or does anyone else know exactly what the problems were? cuz King and Gill did the band without Burnham and Allen for quite some time…

This is the interview I was thinking of:

https://www.loudersound.com/features/im-a-bit-of-an-awkward-bastard-an-interview-with-gang-of-fours-andy-gill

Basically dismisses Hugo and Dave as creative entities, and takes credit for writing 90% of the band's music and lyrics, which ... who knows.

Anyway, here's Andy Gill looking like ... Chris Evans?

https://www.billboard.com/files/media/andy-gill-1989-portrait-billboard-1548.jpg

Which Chris Evans?

not that one

I could have asked which Andy Gill too, of course.

The one who was friends with Mick Jones, I think.

Which Mick Jones?

The one who was a fan of Steve Martin.

LOL. Any child inheriting surnames like Evans or Jones should be named Octavius or Zebedee, etc.

huge RIP. by far the best post punk band

Andy Gill always acknowledged Dr. Feelgood as an influence, Wilko primarily, I mean just look at how he holds his guitar and moves on stage, not to mention his guitar technique

Alexis P made this point rather well in the Guardian, I thought:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/02/andy-gill-gang-of-four-genius-guitarist-who-burned-a-route-out-of-punk

I like the notion that Gang of Four took influences from pre-punk stuff (the Feelgoods, funk) and made out of them music that was a route out of punk for those bored by it. Almost as if they leapfrogged punk entirely. I've seen ppl on twitter trying to claim Gill for punk but I think he was much smarter than that.

in the loudersound interview* that josh links, it's interesting to me that gill cites the visual and physical aspects of wilko's performance -- wilko's someone i think has been quite shortchanged in the recording (which is a little bit why he's dropped down the ranks in our sense of who matters) and gill seems to have found a way to transfer something like this full audiovisual sensibility purely into the sound**: plus he found a way to persuade his bandmates to organise their lines so as to intensify the value of the guitar even at its most minimalist (which is actually not a very "funk" thing to do but that's a different discussion)

*which incidentally took me abt 20 mins longer than necessary to read, it was extremely fkn glitchy to scroll through >:(
**not that gill didn't have a visual dimension onstage also but it's the least interesting part of it his work and certainly not needed as a focus for the requisite qualities

I wouldn't be surprised if Gill was downplaying the influence of punk, it's what people have been doing since about 1978 after all. Apart from Green Gartside, he always fesses up to it.

I was looking at some Go4 live YouTubes and there was one song in particular that was just blatant Dr. Feelgood but I'm not good on their song titles.

he found a way to persuade his bandmates to organise their lines so as to intensify the value of the guitar even at its most minimalist (which is actually not a very "funk" thing to do but that's a different discussion)

this is otm, and I think a relevant point to make about Prince circa 1979-1981.

iincludes digression on farting) (Tom D.) at 7:30 3 Feb 20

I wouldn't be surprised if Gill was downplaying the influence of punk, it's what people have been doing since about 1978 after all. Apart from Green Gartside, he always fesses up to it.

I was looking at some Go4 live YouTubes and there was one song in particular that was just blatant Dr. Feelgood but I'm not good on their song titles.

yeah I definitely get a bullshitty vibe from a lot of guys from that era who seem to want to discount punk

also don't discount the New York bands influence, Gill and Jon King went there in 76

also as far as his guitar style I'd wager reggae and Nile Rogers figure in too

I thought I mentioned that specifically re: the conversation I posted between Gill and Jon Langford. Both of them say a lot of UK punk didn't really interest them - Langford and Gill both claim to have not even bought the Pistols record or seen them when they played Leeds because the music was too macho or heavy metal; Langford says he and his friends played a lot of the first Clash album, but he thought it all sounded a bit "weedy" - but they were still massively influenced by the *idea* of punk. (They mention a pal whose picture ended up on the front of the paper with a tampon earring or something dangling from his ear, described in the caption as "punk," but their friend had never heard the term before.) And Gill does specifically cites his trip to NY as formative, because the people he met there were a lot less macho and aggressive and flamboyant than the gob-target UK crew; I recall a story of the Voidoids playing their first shows in the UK, and Robert Quine being surprised than pissed off that people kept spitting on his guitar.

Anyway, this is perhaps the very gist of post punk as a concept. That is, music that would not necessarily been likely *pre*-punk but which punk allowed or encouraged, whether or not the band itself sounded "punk." Gang of Four, Wire, Joy Division ... these groups were driven by ideas and concepts that punk allowed them to explore, even if none consistently sounded like what one might play someone who wanted to know what "punk" sounded like.

When I was first listening to this stuff in 1979, to my roommates "punk" was anything with less-than-virtuoso musical skill and compositional ability. Sex Pistols and Gang of Four and Wire were not Led Zep or Todd Rundgren or Genesis, therefore they were punk. I think B-52s may have been one of the first records I subjected them to that was so unusual that they thought of it as "new wave" or something other than punk.

What did they think, if anything, of stuff like Roxy Music?

without getting too het up abt two of my bugbears (ancient: "stop saying influence and use better words please", less ancient: "no one called it post-punk at the time and its use now is distorting") the move in the UK to move BEYOND PUNK was strongly afoot as early as 1977, when sounds ran their themed double issue called new musick (also a bad name lol but way better than "post-punk" sorry if this offends), featuring (from memory) kraftwerk, devo, the residents, throbbing gristle, siouxsie and the banshees, plus essays on dub and disco (possibly also pere ubu and cabaret voltaire?)*

i think the notion of a split within punk is just utterly basic to its sense of identity: it was always about forcing splits within a movement, not just the counterculture at large as a movement, but within punk as a movement -- and in some ways within ourselves. identify the contradiction and make it the hook! so it's less a "bullshitty vibe" really than a basic element in the make-up of many of those drawn to it -- we were always drawing paradoxical lines and insisting on impossible definitions, it was our thing! i wish the loudersound interview had called gill out on that a bit -- half his statements seem to me to be screaming "call me out on this! it'll be fun! open for a surprise!"

*with the exception of the banshees all these folks pre-existed punk, this is one (small) reason why i dislike "post-punk"

And I feel like Siouxsie is "of punk," yet not punk.

The roommates liked Bowie, so Roxy circa Siren was okay by them. Although I don't think they liked Ferry and Co. nearly as much. xp

Not punk but of punk is a good distinction. Pre-Pistols, but post-Ramones - say, 1974-1975 - were there any acts in the UK that fit the loose definition of "punk," or is that where pub rock (a la Feelgood, Brinsley Schwarz, Chilli Willi et al.) fit in?

sounds ran their themed double issue called new musick (also a bad name lol but way better than "post-punk" sorry if this offends), featuring (from memory) kraftwerk, devo, the residents, throbbing gristle, siouxsie and the banshees, plus essays on dub and disco (possibly also pere ubu and cabaret voltaire?)*

it seems important that literally everything listed here with the exception of souixsie predates uk punk

feelgood if you amp up wilko's bug-eyed oddness maybe, the rest of the pub rock was raucous 12-bar pop and country

doctors of madness for sure, a bit earlier the groundhogs, the edgar broughton band, the pink fairies

tbh ums there may have been others included that were more recent, i haven't set eyes on the relevant pages for 43 years -- but the people who argued for the issue and wrote and edited them were jon savage and jane suck, two of the key punk writers at the paper, so it wasn't *just* a retrogression (and was not at ALL presented as one rhetorically)

mark otm on influence + post punk. People describing "Pink Flag" as post punk always makes me chortle.

Has anyone read the "Red Set: The History Of Gang Of Four" bio? Any good?

Simon Reynolds on Andy Gill

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/remembering-gang-of-fours-andy-gill-who-ripped-punk-to-shreds/?fbclid=IwAR0vQfhHnaSzNltWQcdFHWVnXS8DNnxh2-24V3BWge1RCtNNIZErID3RhOo

x-post-- Am curious about the "Red Set: The History Of Gang Of Four" book too. I see there was also a 33 1/3 book on the Entertainment album, but the one review excerpt thing I read about it online just says that the 33 1 /3 book author Kevin Dettmar focuses heavily on (and "beats one over the head with") the Situationist and Marxist aspects of the lyrics

So when Gill and King went to NYC in fall 1976, they were on a university grant, stayed in NYC with critic/filmmaker Mary Harron, and visited Moma by day (from an online blurb about the Red Set book about Go4)

Wow

Nice work if you can find it.

harron became a film-maker later obviously but she wasn't one in 1976

also i only just discovered that she dated tony blair at oxford lol

I can see how Gill was struck by the distressing and "misuse" of familiar elements in the music of Beefheart, maybe especially as a guitarist---also, if he's serious about The Band--or not---certainly the sense, especially on Music From Big Pink, of what xgau called the music's "sprung"quality: something to the effect that if you took away one piece, the whole thing would go flying apart: ah, those self=taught hillbilly mechanics! (My Granpaw, who attended a mechanics' school in St. Louis, started by Henry Ford, went home to the hills and found he had all kinds of competition from consumer-hackers). Prob not really---the Hawks/Band were always known for their chops, and Garth for one was formally educated), but Go4 tapped into that sense of suspenseful tumult under the hood.
And yeah the first times I read about "punk" (in Creem, natch), Bangs was already agitating for distress, misuse, extension of the term: he tried applying it to James Taylor, Helen Reddy, and saying why they were that.
A kid wrote in to say he considered punk not only to be the Seeds and the Dolls, but listening to Sun Ra while doing orange sunshine, and Eugene Ormandy with Dubonnet on ice: Bangs agreed; "The chief criterion is excitement." Surely the 60s roots-continuity-ongoing lives of Patti Smith, Televsion, Voidoids, Joey Ramone (the former Jeff Starship) was had to do with the spirit, not the letter of punk (also all the young geezers Mark cites below), before the rise of Taliban hardcore.
without getting too het up abt two of my bugbears (ancient: "stop saying influence and use better words please", less ancient: "no one called it post-punk at the time and its use now is distorting") the move in the UK to move BEYOND PUNK was strongly afoot as early as 1977, when sounds ran their themed double issue called new musick (also a bad name lol but way better than "post-punk" sorry if this offends), featuring (from memory) kraftwerk, devo, the residents, throbbing gristle, siouxsie and the banshees, plus essays on dub and disco (possibly also pere ubu and cabaret voltaire?)*

i think the notion of a split within punk is just utterly basic to its sense of identity: it was always about forcing splits within a movement, not just the counterculture at large as a movement, but within punk as a movement -- and in some ways within ourselves. identify the contradiction and make it the hook! so it's less a "bullshitty vibe" really than a basic element in the make-up of many of those drawn to it -- we were always drawing paradoxical lines and insisting on impossible definitions, it was our thing! i wish the loudersound interview had called gill out on that a bit -- half his statements seem to me to be screaming "call me out on this! it'll be fun! open for a surprise!"

*with the exception of the banshees all these folks pre-existed punk, this is one (small) reason why i dislike "post-punk"
Also the split had to do, within factions and some bands and some individuals, between break on through/back to basics.

(and "basics" could incl. several kinds of constriction)

Speaking of distressed knowns/"knowns", David Johnson, host of the invaluable Night Lights, reminds us:
Jazz writer Dan Morgenstern once compared the sound of tenor saxophonist Albert Ayler's 1960s avant-garde groups to "a Salvation Army marching band on LSD." Now that's what I call post-punk.
https://indianapublicmedia.org/nightlights/holy-ghost-albert-ayler.php

x-post-- Am curious about the "Red Set: The History Of Gang Of Four" book too. I see there was also a 33 1/3 book on the Entertainment album, but the one review excerpt thing I read about it online just says that the 33 1 /3 book author Kevin Dettmar focuses heavily on (and "beats one over the head with") the Situationist and Marxist aspects of the lyrics

That reminds me: when I went to see Gang of Four back in 2015 (at a local venue!), during a lull in the performance Andy riffed about French Situationism for a little bit. Also, he was still pretty gorgeous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMlhWvIh7U4

Thanks for that Wilko Johnson video.

still intrigued by simon reynolds' claim that gill's and wilko's fingernails are "hardened" -- are (or were) they? how?

Lots of fingerstyle guitar players use artificial nails, not sure if that’s what he is referring to, tend not to think so.

Simon Reynolds doesn't how guitar playing works - shocker!

I've heard stories of particularly bass players using super glue to reenforce calluses.

hardened skin absolutely! i used to play double bass in orchestras so i know exactly how that works -- but i don't think you can't callus fingernails

brb researching nail art, i already discovered tippi hedren is why so many US nail bars are vietnamese-run

gang of four shd write a song abt it tbrr

Maybe he imagines that said nails were gradually vulcanized into steely talons as a consequence of their owners' picking style?
(That's not what happens, no.)

Yes, I believe that is exactly what he thinks

That's not what happens indeed. I love this part in an episode of a Matt Sweeney series, in which James Williams talks about the Fake Fingernail Mojo
https://youtu.be/9OvB-wDt7mA?t=521

rules that legendary stooge james williamson basically confirms my not-entirely serious nail-bar theory

Catherine Mayer, Andy Gill's widow, has a new piece up about his passing. There is a strong possibility -- though as the piece clearly states, no specific evidence -- he was an early victim of COVID-19

https://www.catherinemayer.co.uk/post/2020-vision-14-may-16-00

Many thanks for posting that.

My brother has just texted me, "Respiratory illness after touring Asia". I think I'd hold fire on that one.

― (includes digression on farting) (Tom D.), Saturday, 1 February 2020 21:08 (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/01/spate-of-possible-uk-coronavirus-cases-from-2019-come-to-light

The trajectory of Gill’s illness, which took medics looking after him in January by surprise, is now familiar – sudden deterioration, low oxygen levels and organ failure. He had fallen sick after his band returned from a trip to China in late November. A short time later, his 26-year-old tour manager was taken to hospital in Leeds with a severe respiratory infection.

Knowing what we do now it does seem likely it was covid, although apparently the band cancelled last spring's Chinese dates after he was hospitalised with another chest infection.

MATADOR RECORDS TO OVERSEE CLASSIC
GANG OF FOUR ALBUMS

ENTERTAINMENT!, SOLID GOLD, SONGS OF THE FREE, AND 14 LIVE SHOWS
NOW AVAILABLE TO STREAM

LISTEN TO A CURATED PLAYLIST OF LIVE TRACKS

We are pleased to announce that Matador Records will now oversee a number of key catalog titles by legendary Leeds, UK band, Gang of Four, including the classic albums Entertainment! (1979), Solid Gold (1981), and Songs of the Free (1982).

These records are once again available across streaming services and are joined by 14 live releases capturing performances between 1979 and 1984. Find a curated playlist of highlights from the live tapes.

“Ether,” the introductory track on Entertainment!, was recently sampled by Run The Jewels, who used the song’s core riff to form the backbone of their track “the ground below” on the recently released RTJ4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCQtCj39TN0

More to come.

yay!

W/r/t live tracks playlist, the entire Mpls gig used to be up on youtube (seems to have been taken down, natch) and it is a fucking scorcher

Ah-ha, I see the whole show is up already up on the various streaming services, nice, I thought they were just doing the playlist

Songs of the Free never gets the love it deserves. "Call Me Up" and "We Live As We Dream...Alone" are as good as anything from Entertainment.

"We Live As We Dream...Alone" is a good one

On the August 1979 Toronto show they cover the Mekons and Rezillos!

I think about "We live.." all the time. it does something powerful to me.

“The Problem of Leisure: A Celebration of Andy Gill and Gang of Four”

http://musicglue-images-prod.global.ssl.fastly.net/gang-of-four-usa/product/the-problem-of-leisure-limited-edition-cd-pre-order?u=aHR0cHM6Ly9tdXNpY2dsdWUtdXNlci1hcHAtcC02LXAuczMuYW1hem9uYXdzLmNvbS9vcmlnaW5hbHMvZWM4MDFkNjgtNmEzNi00MDc1LWIxMDEtYjBjZGY3ZWU0ODU3&mode=contain&width=800&v=2

A new compilation album featuring globally famous names with original artwork by Damien Hirst to be released on May 14, 2021

The Problem of Leisure: CD One

Vinyl One, Side A
1. IDLES - Damaged Goods (UK)
2. Tom Morello & Serj Tankian - Natural’s Not in It (USA)
3. Helmet - In the Ditch (USA)
4. 3D* x Gang of Four feat. Nova Twins - Where the Nightingale Sings (UK)
5. Hotei - To Hell With Poverty (Japan)

Vinyl One, Side B
1. Gary Numan - Love Like Anthrax (UK)
2. Gail Ann Dorsey - We Live as We Dream, Alone (USA)
3. Herbert Grönemeyer feat. Alex Silva - I Love a Man in a Uniform (Germany)
4. LoneLady - Not Great Men (UK)
5. JJ Sterry - 5.45 (UK)

The Problem of Leisure: CD Two
Vinyl Two, Side C
1. La Roux - Damaged Goods (UK)
2. Everything Everything - Natural’s Not in It (UK)
3. Dado Villa-Lobos - Return the Gift (Brazil)
4. The Dandy Warhols - What We All Want (USA)
5. Warpaint - Paralysed (USA)

Vinyl Two, Side D
1. Flea & John Frusciante – Not Great Men (USA)
2. The Sounds - I Love a Man in a Uniform (Sweden)
3. Hardcore Raver in Tears - Last Mile** (China)
4. Killing Joke x Gang of Four - Forever Starts Now (Killing Joke Dub) (UK)
5. Sekar Melati - Not Great Men (live version) (Japan)

Stream the first single - "Natural's Not in It" by Tom Morello & Serj Tankian
http://gang-of-four.ffm.to/naturals-not-in-it

I was just about to say what's with the shitty artwork and then...

All I know is if someone told me Gang of Four was one of the most influential bands ever, and then I saw that track list, I would probably call bullshit.

3. Helmet - In the Ditch (USA)
1. La Roux - Damaged Goods (UK)

I'd fancy hearing these two but that's about it

that certainly is the bloke from System of a Down on that cover version, I'll say that

Box Set Now Due In March (Vinyl & Cassette) and April (CD)

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2021/02/02/gang-of-four-77-81-box-set-rescheduled/

Hope this one does well, so they do a second one. I've held out paying $$$ for _Hard_ on Discogs, and will get the next period's cd box set. _Songs of the Free_ ("I Love a Man in Uniform") and _Hard_ ("Independence", "Arabic") are the two I fell for in college.

so uncool to not include the cassette in the CD version

bit shit that it doesn't include the single versions

maybe the Fast Product EP was a licensing issue?

still owned by Bob Last

At Home He's A Tourist was on EMI though

I mean tbh I prefer the album version so maybe it's not a great loss, just if you're gonna do a big box set, with a disc called Singles, you'd think they'd actually put the single on it

unless I am mistaken, there has been no notice on ILM that David Pajo has joined what is otherwise a completely credible lineup of King, Burnham and Sara Lee… while I feel pretty much like a putz for not seeing the 2004 tour, the idea of Pajo having an opportunity to go bugshit on top of Lee and Burnham seems pretty enticing…

Gang of Four Reunite, Plan January Tour!

thank you ufo!

thank you ufo!

Gang of Four without Andy Gill? Sacrilege!

Yeah, but I'll be tempted to go for this Go4, if they come close enough geographically. How's the box? Good remasters, good prev. unreleased?

Ehhhhh, the stuff on the cassette was mostly uninspiring scraps.

I kinda always thought the NY Dolls put it so well with the title of that late reunion record "One Day It Will Please Us to Remember Even This". Go to the gigs and have fun with what you got, hopefully they will be a good time. I'm sure David Pajo will give it his all to make it work.

Yeah, but I'll be tempted to go for this Go4, if they come close enough geographically. How's the box? Good remasters, good prev. unreleased?

Looks like Sally Timms will be singing backing vox for at least the Chicago date.

Cool

Went to the Brooklyn Made show - it was a lot of fun! Crowd was a pretty good age mix, from I'm guessing late 20's to senior age. The most skeptical remark I overheard was someone saying "it was like watching my dad's older friend's band" which struck me as kind of dumb even though they added they were glad to have seen King et al before they couldn't - the core members have been playing for 45+ years, what did you think they were going to look like? And King performed like a man possessed. He gave it his all and he clearly used up his reserves to deliver - it was likely easier when he was younger, but for someone out-of-shape, I don't think they could've kept pace with the older King for more than a few numbers.

I guess the original line-up played North America for the last time in 2005, correct? Anyone see that tour? I regret missing it - I'm pretty sure I knew and enjoyed at least their debut album by then. How was that tour?

Also splurged on a signed tour poster. Basically the cost of another ticket, but they already had a run of bad luck when they cancelled their Toronto show due to their bus catching fire (!) and they seem to give most of their money to good causes anyway.

Hey there, here is a recording of the Brooklyn gig if you want it, it went up online today and I sent it to a friend who is a diehard fan.

https://www.fromsmash.com/BiS2D6db8e-bt

Ah nice! Thanks man!

FWIW, I found this NY Times article about their 2005 reunion, published on Jan. 24, 2005. Gill's passing aside (I'm still sad he's gone, and I never saw him perform), it's amusing to read in light of the current tour since they joke quite a bit about their age.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/24/arts/music/after-postpunk-postpostpunk-by-the-gang-of-four.html

A relevant excerpt for those who encounter a paywall:

"The goal is to be as incredibly intense as we were the first time around," Mr. Allen said. "What we have to do is leave them with their tongues hanging out again. If not, we don't retain our authority in the musical canon. There's no excuse that we're 23 years older."

Mr. Burnham added, "I realized that we could do it because we all still had our hair."

--

Mr. Gill is the only band member continuing his recording career, writing soundtracks and producing bands including Killing Joke and the Jesus Lizard. Mr. Burnham, who worked as a band manager and recording-company executive after leaving the Gang of Four, teaches at the New England Institute of Art in Brookline, Mass. The other two members have followed the band's media critiques with media jobs. Mr. King is the chief executive of World Television, which produces news reports, Webcasts and corporate video for clients from Greenpeace to Nestlé. Mr. Allen lives in Portland, Ore., and works in digital-music distribution and brand marketing with his company, Pampelmoose.

The band members had to shape up for the tour. Mr. Burnham hadn't played drums since 1985; he started exercising with his wife, a Pilates trainer. Mr. King, who is still lean, teased the other band members with e-mail messages about the "celebrity fat club." But as they started to relearn the songs, old reflexes came back.

"The blueprint was still in my body," Mr. Allen said.

On the 9-foot-by-18-foot stage of the Montague Arms, Mr. King flailed and twitched, dropped to the floor and leaped up like a funky scarecrow, as hyperactive as he was a generation ago. "It's the tragedy of old age that people stop doing stupid things," he said before the show. "When you're young, you're reckless and oppositional, and that's what you should be your whole life. Why should you not take a risk?"

I got to see the ‘05 tour, definitely was a privilege.

Burnham appeared at Pop Con a few years ago. Literate guy.

Also stumbled upon this from 2010: https://exclaim.ca/music/article/gang_of_four_sell_copies_of_new_album_with_vials_of_their_own_blood

Pretty intense "collector's item."

Mr. Allen lives in Portland, Ore., and works in digital-music distribution and brand marketing with his company, Pampelmoose

wait what

is this related to the ILX-famous superstar duo?

that's Pomplamoose, but very close!

I'm connected to Allen on LinkedIn.

more discussion here :

Gang of Four Live

Interesting discovery from another forum:

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but I recently got a copy of the standalone Entertainment! LP by Matador, and imagine my surprise to discover it has the full intro to "I Found That Essence Rare" (with the count off and guitar harmonics riff). I noticed that my copy has a different catalog no.—OLE1742LP—as opposed to earlier copies, which have cat. no. OLE1564LP.

Folks who are upset about the missing intro should grab this copy. I wonder if this was just Matador's way of quietly correcting the issue? (If so, that's kinda slimy of them to first deny the mistake by offering a dubious "It's what the band intended" excuse, and then quietly cut and press a second copy with the intro intact.)

I was trying to replace my noisy, worn OG US copy of Entertainment!, and I thought I'd give the Matador reissue a try since it's easy to come by right now, despite the missing intro. Needless to say, I was quite pleasantly surprised to hear the intro there!

I love that intro, good news

In an answer to someone's question on social media, they said they were planning a more extensive North American tour in 2024.

Who is in the band now?

Looks like the same configuration as last year with Sara Lee and David Pajo. They just did a festival show and have more dates this fall in the UK.

I saw them last week and it was overall a much better show than when they first came through early in 2022. Pajo isn't just copying Andy Gill's guitar lines but instead using them as a launch pad for something more, he and Sara are total MVPs.

This is more or less what it was like...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnZbKxC41F0

First part of a multi-part David Pajo interview that's going to be uploaded to this podcast:

https://discograffiti.com/podcast/94-david-pajo-part-1-favorites-as-in-records-firsts-as-in-pre-slint-bands-flavorings-as-in-tortoise-yeah-yeah-yeahs-interpol-gang-of-four/

That Damaged Goods video sounds like they need to speed it up a bit

Jon's voice sounds a little tired in that clip. Luckily halfway through he does "that thing live musicians do where they let the crowd sing the chorus."

I almost went to one of their shows. Looking at that video, I'm glad I didn't. Is it just basically all old people trying to re-live their rocker years?

sure looks like it

You're not wrong.

I’m glad I saw the full original lineup reunion in the aughts— Jon was far from tired and seeing Andy shred live was a godlike experience.