show etiquette

so i got hardmanned at a Girls show tonight (http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/GetOnMyComp_gm.jpg)

so anyway this dude & girl standing in front of me were talking during the songs, like shouting into each others ears -- real stupid conversation shit -- a foot from my face, and it was kind of throwing off my whole vibe. so after like four songs i said "if you guys are gonna talk during every song, do you think you could go back to the bar" (with a little snark) and he stared me down all hardman style like he was mike tyson. anyway, i don't go to shows ALL that much, especially ones that are like <200 people, and i'm not sure if i was being a dick for asking them to stfu or if it's kind of people's way of expressing that their not digging the band and i should just stfu and move.

i ended up moving because lol @ the idea of me fighting someone, but who was in the wrong?

*all rise for judge judy*

It's because you were at a Girls show.

y'all can rate how bitchmade i am on a scale of 1-10 if you'd like, but i just want to know if i'm right or wrong

yeah see like i get the whole "lol this band sucks anyway" but like, why even go to the show?

i wouldnt expect anything to come from shushing people like that at a bar w/o intimidation so in that sense its 'wrong'. shouting over them so much they have to ask YOU to shutup or move: worthy of the prince

etiquette-wise, I agree that the behavior described is annoying & stupid. Personally, unless the show had designated seating, or I had camped out stage-side from the beginning of the gig to get a prime viewing spot, I would likely just shuffle my placement in the crowd a bit & let someone else deal with them.

That said, I do love the fact that manned up & got stared down at a Girls show.

sarge ilu for graemlin

they was wrong and a reasonable motherfucker would have moved

they was dicks

word-- really this thread was just so i could get on some andy rooney soapbox

since i'm a short dude i kind of get attached to any position where i have a good sightline -- i was kind of on some costanza shit tbh but there's never really the threat of physical harm on seinfeld

http://www.virtualsasha.com/images/Andy_Rooney.jpg
GET ON MY LEVEL

yo is it true dickhead got sonned by a j0rdan after a etiquette beef??????

http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/son.gif

i don't think you were being a dick, but people shouting into each other's ears like that during songs at a regular club show is as common as people lifting up their cell phones to take pictures. It can be annoying, but it's something that so many people do, it might come across to the people you called out, if they go to shows more often, that you're being oversensitive and/or don't get out much.

Moving is generally the best course of action, though it sucks if you have a good spot and the place is packed enough so that it's hard to find another good spot.

j0rdan i don't want to live in a world where it is okay with talking loudly through a show: its so crazy rude, and shows such selfish disregard for anyone in the room who might want to hear the music, that it bums me out big time when it happens.

i also almost got in a fight, at a magnetic fields show, in such circumstances about a decade ago. this guy and two girls were singing through all the 69 Love Songs material, which was kind of annoying but i felt like a grouch for getting vexed, because hey they're just having a good time. but then they started talking loudly during the songs they didn't know, and my then-gf was getting visibly enraged, so i stood up (we were seated, they were stood behind us) and said, hey, do you mind not talking during the songs? i was real polite abt it, btw.

anyways, the guy, who seemed kind of an upper class ponce if his diction and accent were any clue, got all pouty and said, "why don't you fuck off home and listen to the record there?" which upped my vexation levels a thousandfold, and i said that since i'd bought tickets to see the show, why didn't he fuck off home and have his conversation there?

i sat down at this point, and they pretty much shut up, but between songs i could hear him lisping about how he was going to smack me at the end of the show. i don't think i've been in a real fight since i hit double figures, and thought i could probably 'take him' if it came down to it, but still didn't fancy a scrap. the show ended and i stood up, and the guy and his friends abruptly left w/out saying anything, and an old lady came up and thanked me for shutting them up, but it was a lame scene mostly.

i know, wite guy almost sonned at a mag fields show over a loud-talking beef...

^had a similar experience at one of the 69 love songs shows. seemed like a bunch of people were only there to hear the one about bunny rabbits (which they loudly sang along to) and talked incessantly through the rest

Talking during songs is inexcusable, as is bellowing tunelessly along (unless it's that kind of gig, y'know Pogues or suchlike). I don't know if this has got any better or worse in my many years of going to see live bands, but it certainly happens more if an artist is on an upward career curve, or is in some flavour-of-the-month phase just because the shows are full of people who aren't fans as such, or who've been dragged along etc. Bottom line though is that it's incredibly rude both to the performer(s) and other people who have paid to be there.

As noted, yr never going to meet with anything approaching a polite response if any attempt is made to shut them up. Disgusting savages, all of them.

Something else that pisses me off is when people who have been blessed with the genetic gift of tallness choose to stand directly in front of me and/or Mrs A even though we've staked a claim in a good spot early on. I'm only 5'10" so when some fucker who is well over 6 foot barges in my view is ruined. As is my mood.

My enjoyment of a Tindersticks show a couple of years ago was pretty much ruined by one girl who talked loudly throughout the entire show, including the quiet songs. Stuart Staples doesn't normally say much to the audience but on this occasion he was moved at the end to say "it’s been great playing for you… except for that woman down there." But she didn't hear him. She just kept on talking.

genetic gift of tallness

I am five foot nothing and while I don't think this gives me an instant right to be at the front or anything (nor do I particularly want to any more, for most gigs I am at) I am amazed every gig at how people over a foot taller than me will arrive, note my presence, and then stand exactly in front of me. Happens even if the room is almost empty, though at least then they can be sidestepped (until the next lot). If they seem into the band that's one thing, but if they then get bored and chat and twitter all evening, fuck those guys

(sometimes I think indie women are shorter and less assertive than average and indie guys are taller and more oblivious than average, and curse the cruel fate that throws 10 of us and 200 of them into every gig together. this and other women-be-shopping observations are all I have to think about when I keenly arrive at a gig at the advertised door time to find that it doesn't start for 1.5 hours and it's too dark to reread the free month-old listings rag, etc)

Back to the thread topic, those guys were jerks, don't be intimidated by them maybe going to more shows than you, most regular gig-goers I've known wd agree. Though I've never seen anything good come of a confrontation at the time, but I'd like to think they go home and think "I guess we were a bit annoying" and don't do it again. Past experience suggests not though.

(Once the hippest local band included a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town. So glad that guy left town.)

you should never be made to feel like you're in the wrong by asking for a little courtesy and consideration.

xpost: I remember an old acquaintance telling us about the time that she and her friends were shushed at a Tindersticks gig.

"It was SO RUDE! How DARE they tell us what to do? We were at the back, so they could have just moved forwards!"

The worst ones are when the chatter reaches critical mass, and everyone gives up and starts doing it themselves. As someone said upthread, this happens most often when the act is at the "flavour of the month" stage. I've witnessed it at Goldfrapp (around the time of "Ooh La La"), at Rodrigo Y Gabriela, and - perhaps more deservedly, because it was a ditchwater-dull show anyway - at Seasick Steve.

a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town

"FREEBIRD!"?

Have confronted people about this more times than I care to remember. A bit of chat is fine - it's a night out, after all; and chatting at the bar is fine - it's the bar. But talking all the way through a show when you're standing mid-crowd is unacceptable. I rarely get threatened, though, by virtue of being very tall and not at all skinny. And because by the time I tip over into telling them to be quiet, my rage is beyond containment. As a tall person, agree with those shorter than me who complain about the behaviour of tall latecomers fighting their way into the middle of the crowd regardless of who's behind me. When accompanied by someone short, I have been known to poor beer down the backs of those who come in very late and stand in front without paying any attention. Which makes me as much of an asshole as them.

The situation was best handled at a Kathryn Williams show in a small stand-up venue, circa 2001, where the chatter had reached critical mass by the third song. (The same crowd had already talked right over the support slot from Turin Brakes.) The venue was jam-packed, and KW's self-admitted fear of crowds in enclosed spaces was kicking in. Between songs, a young guy in front of me motioned to KW that he wanted a word, so she asked him up on stage.

"I've got a request. Can everyone who's here to catch up with their mates over a drink please FUCK OFF DOWNSTAIRS so the rest of us can watch the show?"

Sustained applause. Total silence for the rest of the gig.

I am v tall and try to be aware of getting in the way of shorter people, but it's often quite difficult to find anywhere to stand that isn't in someone's way. If I'm at somewhere like the Forum or Shepherd's Bush Empire I'll just stand in front of the mixing desk so there's no-one behind me.

Or I find some other tall bastard and stand behind him cos there's usually space there cos no-one else can see. But that can lead to a huge clump of lanky gits which probably just makes it worse.

But if I am there it is because I am watching the show not talking to people so pls don't hate me.

Lanky gits do tend to clump, 'tis true...

Sorry Colonel, I don't really hate the tall people. 99% of you are fine, just the ones who stand in front - I mean exactly in front like they deliberately lined up elbows, this is what makes it really odd how often it happens - of the smallest person for several metres even when there's plenty of other space, and then don't even seem interested.

I (used to) go to a lot of gigs more or less out of curiosity, so if I'm there just to see what's what and someone who likes the band wants to stand in front of me, no problem there. Though I tend to lurk near the back unless I like what I'm hearing or am really excited to see them. Actually there's often a spot at the very back where the shallower angle lets you see one or two band members between the heads, which is more than we shortarses get from most of the crowd.

I go to tons of shows and it drives me nuts when everyone seems to be talking during the bands, but refreshingly I don't seem to see it super often -- maybe it's the shows I go to (either so small that there's not enough of the audience to out-chatter the band, or so big that the band drowns out anyone who is talking). I'd say what Jordan did was avoidable but I kinda applaud him for doing it, I totally fantasize about doing that kind of thing but never do. closest I got was at a movie once when a guy would not stop talking next to me, and I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP' and amazingly he did for the rest of the movie, which was such a great moment.

If you are in an assigned seat and can not move, then yeah, tell them to stfu.

If you can move, then move. always easiest first best choice.

I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP'

heh. I did this too, at a seated GYBE gig. the exact same words, the exact same effect.

I genuinely intended to be polite to the endlessly chattering gimps next to me, but all my pent-up rage just fell out of my face.

The first time Brian Wilson did Pet Sounds in London - the OPENING FUCKING NIGHT, his first involved gig here since before the old queen died and all - there were two fellas a couple of rows bag talking at normal conversational volume throughout. Finally leapt out of my seat and pleaded with them to let the music talk. One of them told me he'd been waiting 40 years for this night and I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.
WTF do you say to people like that, who know they're ruining it for others but completely don't give any sort of a fuck?

killing's too good for 'em...

Typical Londoners. You wouldn't get that anywhere else in the UK.

Hard to know how much of an asshole one will be. I loathe bullying, so the staring-down bs just makes me want to goad them into action. The key is for them to swing, and you not be embarrassed to dodge or back off, so that it's obvious to security that those people need to be kicked out, and you get to stay. I've only accomplished that twice in 25 yrs of shows. Usually they'll back off. Another tactic is to push past them and say you figured they wouldn't mind since they don't seem into the show, ha ha. My best experiences are showing up early and staying right up front. If I come late, I hang in the back, since I'm 6'1"+. Also, it's helped that bands I've seen lately are way too loud to even attempt to talk over.

I have heard people complain that they went to a gig where the band was so loud that they couldn't even have a decent conversation...

i prefer talking to people over going to concerts but its pretty lame that these people are paying $15 to talk in a loud bar

Stevie ... they were Glaswegians who'd come down to London for the opening night.

last gig I went to (and I don't get to many these days) featured someone shouting I LOVE THIS SONG! repeatedly throughout about three quarters of the songs. AAAAAAAH.

Ah, right. Good job you didn't try and fight them, then. Although, my name's not Stevie. xp

Sorry anagram. Misread which post I was replying to.

I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.

This level of selfish asshattery just boggles my brain. What a frightful human being.

At most other events (theatre, cinema, etc), you'd be able to get an attendant to give them them "you're spoiling it for other patrons" warning, but when faced with that kind of gibbering selfishness I doubt even that would work.

The biggest problem for me is that the talking itself is super distracting, then yr own irritation adds to this, THEN one's indignance and rage takes over with a final result that you're completely removed from the moment of enjoying the music, and it can take an age to get back into that mindset EVEN IF the yapping fuckwit does shut up when asked to. Which they rarely do, ime.

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

There was a pretty classic discussion about this here several years ago, btw, but no phrases I'm putting into the search engine ("Talking At Live Shows," etc.) are turning anything up. Maybe it was just part of a bigger thread, I'm not sure, but somebody else can find it. Definitely also delved into the phenomenon of tall people standing in front of short people at shows, fwiw.

Tall people look over the heads in a crowd and go "Oh look there's a hole in the crowd, nobody there!"

So they go into the spot, and see it's populated by shorter people.

And then go "oh. Oh well, it's better than over there" and STAY!

The guy in front of you who insists on taking camera phone photos the whole time is just as annoying. I once had to watch an Animal Collective show through the camera of the jerk in front of me because it was packed and I couldn't move.

Also annoying to stand near: the freaky dancer.

Damn hippies.

Dealt with to some extent on this thread (but apparently there was an earlier one that talked about it more, because I mention it here too):

people who doesnt like to go to shows , although they love music, and live in a place where it's available - c/d?

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

I actually really enjoy between song heckling, especially if it's at all witty. Though maybe this girl was just more obnoxious than anything. But if I could be disappointed in Neko case and her fans, if that were at all possible, I might be after reading this.

I hope I never attend a show with you Master Jim. Between song heckling is almost never "witty".

And even if it is, you have to choose your marks. For one thing, you don't do it after every song. For another, Neko Case?

kinda disagree

"you don't rock" and "play the hit" were two of my favorites

when i go to a lot of shows i start to see a lot of the same people, 'specially if it's a trendy act in a small venue. i have sympathy for the idea of concerts as just an extension of your social life. but you should be nowhere near the front and respectful of listeners and if you're a ligger talking loudly i'm not sure i'd step in to save you if it led to your being beaten viciously.

I'm not saying it can't be witty, but nine times out of ten the heckler thinks he or she is 1,000,000 times more witty than they actually are.

Pretty glad I didn't go to the Girls show at teh Blue Note last night tbh

Though I would have liked to see Smith Westerns

One of my favourites concerns Bono on stage at a famine relief concert, whether true or not I don't know nor care.
There he is standing centre stage between songs and he starts clicking his fingers every 3 seconds and he starts his sermon:
"Everytime I click my fingers someone in Africa will die of starvation". He continues to slowly click his fingers to the silent crowd.
Cue heckler:"Well stop clicking your bloody fingers then!"

hahaha

xxp

there was no one there & everyone looked to be 18-20

smith westerns were really rad

I figured, with the weather and all. If I was going anywhere it would have been to the DIY show on Orr street to see my friends. The fact that no one was there and they were being really loud makes it worse. The Blue Note is so depressing when it is empty.

Pretty used to being surrounded by 18-20 year olds.

http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bono.asp

whether true or not I don't know nor care

congrats

PaulTMA, why do you hate fun?

sarge u were in the right they were in the wrong

i almost got beat up at a gwar show in like 96 cuz dudes were trying to start a pit by the back bar

Way to rain on my parade, Paul. :'(

Don't worry ilxor, I'll tell it to my friends as if it were true.

Oh, I rarely heckle myself. But I do enjoy it. Not if its overdone, true. But I like the way it deflates the typical show dynamic a bit. My favorite example, I guess, is at the end of some bands set and before they went offstage to wait out the inevitable encore, some guy yelled "play another song you fucking faggots!" Admittedly not witty, but it made me laugh. Now that I think about it, I only really like it when there's a roomful of people all rapt over some sensitive soul up there sharing their intelligence and genius or whatever. I like seeing that deflated.

xposts

this is how it's done
http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/dailyloaf/files/2009/02/soybomb.jpg

I think the thing is also that what even constitutes heckling or rude behavior at a show is going to depend a lot on the type of show it is. Like say a punk show and an indie show and a metal show and a jazz show are going to have totally different norms of behavior. Heckling is funniest at the indie show, and most obnoxious at the jazz one.

some guy yelled "play another song you fucking faggots!

Anyone that laughed at this is a disgusting savage imo.

Heckling is funniest at the indie show

Everything is funniest at indie shows. Indie music is funny music.

Admittedly not witty, but it made me laugh.

typed with all the pride of a man boasting about the size of his last turd.

I only really like it when there's a roomful of people all rapt over some sensitive soul up there sharing their intelligence and genius or whatever.

yeah god forbid people go to shows to appreciate and enjoy artists they admire.

tell you what'd be funnier than "play another song you fucking faggots" - punching "mister jim" in the face

sometimes a man boasting about the size of his last turd is pretty funny

i think ur wrong there

or just have a really low bar for "funny", whichever

a good heckle is shouting count-offs right before a band is getting ready to start a song like "1-2-3-4!" my friend got a band to "false start" two times in a row...that's stuck in your lizard brain as a musician, it's hard not to

http://batmancomic.info/generate.php

my favorite heckle from another ILM thread was to shout "one more song!" after the band's first song

So can I safely conclude that the best way to get to the front of any show now is to take a $2000 camera lens with me?

The entire front row at the School Of Seven Bells show last night consisted of photographers (at maximum I counted 14). And I'm not counting folks with cameraphones either - these were all multi-thousand buck rigs with big lenses, etc. I've never seen that many photographers at a show before (outside of like of something like U2 or the Stones) and I had to wonder how many of them were actual music photographers and how many were there just to perv on the Deheza sisters.

Sure photojournalists gotta eat and all that, but why should I give up my place at the front just because you have a camera.

I make it a point to fart near photographers

then again when I'm at a show I fart near everyone

Tori Amos gets a couple of girls ejected mid-song, presumably for talking (comes at 2'28"):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8H13XmvstA

Keith Jarrett bawls out a festival audience for taking photos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB9mMABRM0c

SHOREDITCH, LISTEN TO ME

LEARN. SOME. GODDAMN. MANNERS. STFU WHEN YOU'RE BEING SUNG TO. especially when the artist in question (glasser) (fucking awesome btw) prefaces a song with "this is a quiet one" and then has to look really awkward and embarrassed when NO ONE SHUTS UP. this was a sold-out ticket-only affair; everyone in the room had actively decided they wanted to check out glasser tonight. if they decided they didn't want to pay attention to her, the area is not exactly short of bars that they could have FUCKED THE FUCK OFF TO instead. fucking inane cunts! who the hell raised these people? that is what i want to know.

outdoor show last summer and some sad bootlegging bastard sets up in front of me, stands on a MILK CRATE which he had brought to the show so he could videotape it.

i wasn't moving because it was a rare patch of shade and the place was packed shoulder to shoulder.

i brought to his attention that he was blocking my view and the view of many other people as well.

he made clear that he intended to stay where he was and we could all move if we wanted to see.

about four songs in a big mike tyson looking dude told him to pack the fuck up unless he had a press card.

he packed up and then turned and called me an asshole because i had been blasting off REALLY FUCKING LOUD two finger whistles right behind him all show.

we all clapped as he left.

feels good to get that off my chest. thanks ILM....

What's the etiquette when you see a headliner in the crowd before they go on? E.g. is it OK to take pictures with them?

It okay to take pics if they're into it.. Always ask. If they are the slightest bit put off, then forget it. You don't what to fuck with there head space before they go on. But if they are out in the crowd, they have to expect some fanage...

I was amused by audience behaviour at a Dean-Wareham-plays-Galaxie-500 concert last week, where people were more or less shushing people for applauding too much between songs.

probably b/c people are applauding too much for a cash-grab tour on the G500 name/reputation featuring only one of the original band members?

In a combination of the most recent question and original thread purpose, I was at a Guillemots gig a few years ago where the singer started with a quiet solo song and the person next to me carried on talking so I gave her a look. She stopped and apologised, and it turned out she was the bassist.

I am generally in favour of asking people to stop talking but was recently at a (seated) show where the guy next to me reacted in such an over the top and angry way to a small bit of talking that he put me on edge and spoilt the show far more than those chatting.

Yeah, I've completely given up on asking people not to talk at shows or movies or whatever, because the seething rage I've gotten in return is far more upsetting than just dealing with it.

I still have to give Bernard Butler credit all those years ago when he did a solo show in LA -- 1998 or so -- when he pretty much told all the music industry hacks at the bar to shut the hell up, to the mass applause of the audience. Said hacks then seethed about it via stories from friendly journalists to make it seem like Butler was the rude one.

I saw the Dan Deacon ensemble in Milwaukee, and if you've ever seen his show, you'd know they get some really bizarre opening acts. This time there was this collective of like 7 guys, all with these weird electronic instruments (and maybe one guy with a bass guitar) that played this long, droney junk for like 20 minutes at a pop. No rhythm or melody, just dense noise. Of course if you're at a Dan Deacon show you're expecting to see something weird but all you could think was "what the hell are they doing up there?" At the end of the second piece I shouted, "ONE MORE TIME!!" which got a laugh but the group ACTUALLY PLAYED ONE MORE becuause of it, and it sounded just like the other two!! I thought the audience was going to kill me!!

do you remember what they were called?

Arcade Fire

who the fuck are theY?

Just looked it up...they were called Teeth Mountain

The other opener was Future Islands and they were really good.

Is it me or does anyone else want to deck people who spend entire shows screaming out the title of one song over and over in hopes the band plays it. It's usually less an honest attempt to get the band to play it and more to show off how 'hardcore' a fan they are...especially since most setlists are pre-determined.

When I saw Savatage in 2001 this asshole kept screamong "fuck this, play SIRENS" over and over until they finally played it halfway through the show. It's like he paid 30 dollars to hear one three minute song.

Also at Deicide last year this fan kept screaming for one song...problem was they'd played it already. Shouts of "THEY ALREADY FUCKING PLAYED IT" had little deterrence.

The entire front row at the School Of Seven Bells show last night consisted of photographers (at maximum I counted 14). And I'm not counting folks with cameraphones either - these were all multi-thousand buck rigs with big lenses, etc. I've never seen that many photographers at a show before (outside of like of something like U2 or the Stones) and I had to wonder how many of them were actual music photographers and how many were there just to perv on the Deheza sisters.

I was just about to complain about the exact same thing at the recent DC show. Some pervy guy immediately in front of me (I was 2nd row) was taking pictures of her every 15 seconds for the entire show. Snap, wait, admire the pic. Focus, snap, wait, admire. He must have taken 200+ photos.

xpost

I'd like to hear that fan at a Bal Sagoth gig.

"PLAY THE SPLENDOUR OF A THOUSAND SWORDS GLEAMING BENEATH THE BLAZON OF THE HYPERBOREAN EMPIRE PART THREE!!!"

Lol I totally forgot about Bal-Sagoth. Fun stuff.

Yea death metal shows make it harder to shout requests for me. Like I would feel really mortified screaming "ENTRAILS RIPPED FROM A VIRGIN'S CUNT!"

Haha, is that Regurgitator?

cannibal corpse

no hang on - there was a band that began with R who had brilliant Carcass meets Anal Cunt song titles... I forget their name. Like Regurgitator, but not?

AG - did you ever see the episode of Monkey Dust where the divorced Dad goes to see his son who has moved to Newcastle. He brings him a present of the latest Now! compilation, and the kid's reaction is: "Noo forty-two? I only listen'a Speed Metal. Yas got any Cannibal Corpse?".

It's like he paid 30 dollars to hear one three minute song.

Lots of people do exactly this, sadly. I remember seeing a Smashing Pumpkins show during the Mellon Collie tour where a row of eight people in front of us sat on their asses, talking and bitching about how crappy it was for the entire show, stood up and cheered for "1979", and then promptly left.

i thought teeth mountain was a highly rhythmic everybody-plays-drums drone band? i actually really liked the stuff on their myspace.

Hmmm yeah looking them up it seems like there were drums. Still didn't find the music terribly distinctive or very good. I might have them confused with someone who opened at a different Dan Deacon show, who basically breathed into a microphone for like 15 minutes at once and modified his voice with random electronic shit

AG - did you ever see the episode of Monkey Dust where the divorced Dad goes to see his son who has moved to Newcastle. He brings him a present of the latest Now! compilation, and the kid's reaction is: "Noo forty-two? I only listen'a Speed Metal. Yas got any Cannibal Corpse?".

― chandelier falling through a bar in a batman costume (dog latin)

I dont even know what Monkey Dust is!

teeth mountain were the judge judy dead cat people, right?

Is it me or does anyone else want to deck people who spend entire shows screaming out the title of one song over and over in hopes the band plays it.

I once read an interview with JAMC's Jim Reid complaining about how there was always some drunken idiot at Glasgow gigs shouting for "Vegetable Fuckin Man!" between songs. A few weeks later I was that drunken idiot :(

Um, Jim Reid? That was you, that was...

last week this one freakin tiny girl pushed her way to the front at some show, in an small club, to take pictures of the band with her freakin IPAD

prob one of the most ridiculous things I've seen so far

I hate the worthless fucking life-failures who record an entire show on their little digital camera. They usually have to hold it up like a foot above their heads, so if you're standing behind them, you have to look at a little TV screen the entire show. I've seriously considered just slapping it from their hands and when they turn around just staring them down.

so not cool

I've seriously considered just slapping it from their hands and when they turn around just going http://i.imgur.com/zi7hd.gif

whiney imagine that but with an ipad

like there were people standing around recording the show on their iphones all weirded out by it

yeah but sometimes it's fun to see your show on youtube the next day.

I would not feel the least bit guilty after "accidentally" knocking it out of her hands and stepping on it a few times.

i rely on these ppl so i can see shows i was at on youtube the next day

i roll my eyes at people who pay more attention to capturing the show on their phone than to the show itself but i'll take a thousand of them over the loud talkers (and for that matter over the tall, oblivious people who stand in front of you just as you thought you;d found a nice sightline)

man, i hate people

gonna bring my macbook & use the isight camera next time i go to a show

hahah

Only if you livestream it for us markers!

i got ur back www.ustream.tv

I'm just going to bring a full length mirror to the show

wait what band are we doing this for

well its like, i dont really care that these people dont know how to enjoy a show. like i can enjoy it and then be like, omg this new song they did was so good to my friend alicia and make her watch youtube videos the next day. everybody wins. except for like the people who miss the show because they were filming it and the people who couldnt get tickets because it was sold out and the band who have to look at a row of cameras. and i guess my friend alicia.

I'm just going to bring my desk, chair, laptop, and snacks to my next live show so I can sit just like how I would when I watch it on youtube the next day.

pretty much everyone at shows i go to are cool. this one time a girl asked me to stop smoking a joint at an acid mothers temple show. that was probably the worst, but she had asthma so i couldn't not do it, i just gestured at the stage and threw my hands up in exasperation like are you even AWARE of where we ARE right now

someone took a video of me playing a show a while ago & watching it was v instructive actually, made me realize what a dork i look like when i play shows

I don't really care about ppl who film things or take pictures, I'm tall and will help you take a pic if you're short, I don't really have a uniform viewpoint on show etiquette really, but I try to act less like the dick I know I've been when I was younger

(and for that matter over the tall, oblivious people who stand in front of you just as you thought you;d found a nice sightline)

we're often not being oblivious so much as cruel

oh god people who blow fag smoke in your face >>>>:(

wat

Two whammies. The first was at a rare US show by the Bats. I was so excited to see them. So was the dude behind me, who decided to do one of those crazy loud finger whistles about a foot from my ear. Without even thinking, I whipped around and angrily yelled at him to shut the fuck up. He was just a little dude (like me) who clearly didn't consider that someone might like the sound of the band more than his loud whistle. He meekly apologized and didn't do it again.

The other one was better, one of my all-time favorite anecdotes. I went to see Kathleen Edwards at a smallish club. I was standing in the back. This dude and his friends were talking near me.

Girl: So, did you bring your harmonica?
Dude: Nah, not tonight.
Other dude: What harmonica?
Girl: Oh, you don't know? Dude's jammed with Dylan, Dave Matthews, Blues Traveler...

I started eyeing this alleged all-star harmonica jammer when it the gist of their conversation suddenly struck me: this asshat brings his harmonica to shows and plays along in the crowd! I can't imagine anything more hellish, and that includes seeing Blues Traveler and DMB.

idk im making an effort to not be annoyed by everyone and everything i guess

anybody who holds a $500 device in front of me at a show is already making pretty bad life decisions imo

There are $500 harmonicas?

u need to spend the big bucks to jam with the big stars

actually there are $500 harmonicas! but that wasnt my intended ref

it is interesting how people feel like they have an inalienable right to document shows, no matter how intrusive they are or whether the performer(s) express the desire for them not to ... or not to do so in certain ways.

i like to believe i have a live-and-let-live attitude about these sort of things but if that harmonica guy eventually got stomped i would not http://struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/crying-indian1.jpg because that is all-time douchebaggery

on the other hand the kind of shows you'd go to in order to play harmonica in the crowd probably wouldn't involve audiences quick to anger

i mean that harmonica guy is probably unbearable but its kindof easier to laugh at him than to get cross with him.

<3 u plax but some of us are rageballs by nature

plz note: i have documented the fate of a harmonica play along guy on a different ilx thread and it doesnt end well

how could you not laugh at the harmonica guy? i mean, really

anyone who BRINGS AN INSTRUMENT to a show when they're not in the band is in the "first against the wall" category imo

They would probably bring their own rifle along to that tbh

i remember the most frustrating experience was seeing live music in spain where everybody claps (?) along all the time. its like all you hear is clapping. its p confusing at first and then you start thinking about how much the ticket cost.

i used to enjoy going to shows and then i started getting paid to do it four or five nights a week for three or four years and now i am happy to have my rocking chair and a cup of tea and a nice blanket

i think after nine or ten years of going to shows four or five night a week you develop a zen-like attitude -- at least that was my experience

thats probably hearing loss

Think how good you would be on harmonica by now if you had taken it along to each of those gigs.

possibly - people are often less annoying when what they're saying is less intelligible

Some dude put two beers on the floor next to where I was sitting and then proceeded to jump into the mosh pit. People proceed to walk through the area where dude placed his beer.
He came back fifteen minutes later and only found one of his beers then looked at me and asked "where's the other one?"
You're on your own, fuckface.

I don't get the people who spend the entire show making trip after trip after trip back to the bar, spending more time carefully shoving through the crowd with two beers in each hand than they do actually watching the show. Do it properly folks, load up on your beer at a cheap bar down the street, then go to the show. Less annoying and much cheaper.

one time i brought a six pack to some loft show, was standing nowhere near the stage, put it on the floor next to me for a second, and this american apparel clad doofus goes running for the stage when a band came on, sending himself and my beers sprawling. i was torn between rage over the beer and delight over his pratfall.

presumably you could still hear the music while making the frequent bar visits ... like, i don't really get why one needs to be able to see the musicians playing in order to have a full concert experience.

ah what the hell, copying this from the hidden thread because it isnt like this dude can use google or anything

So this morning this regular customer who is sort of an inveterate drunk and a complete ass comes in and is all slurry mouthed (presumably from lingering booze) and asks for a harmonica in the key of G. I tell him we don't have one and he starts asking if I know how to clean harmonicas, and while im telling him to soak it in water and hope for the best etc, he produces a blood soaked rag wrapped around a blood encrusted harmonica and sets it on the counter (aaagghj). He explains that last night he was at the bar and decided to play harmonica along with the band (not on stage, but just loudly over at the bar), at which point the guy next to him punched him in the harmonica, and by proxy the mouth, which now is a small cemetery of partial tooth stubs. Which explains the speech pattern i suppose.

added bonus: thanks to his sleeveless shirt i now know that his arms are covered with about 15 jailhouse swastikas, a crudely done eagle with a syringe in its mouth, a wolf engaged in mortal combat with (i think) a diseased raccoon, and "I LIKE TO FUCK" in big block lettering.

― CUSE EX MACHINA (jjjusten), Saturday, May 29, 2010 4:31 PM (1 year ago)

sarahel if you want to know what someone looks like cumming you have to watch them play guitar

added bonus: thanks to his sleeveless shirt i now know that his arms are covered with about 15 jailhouse swastikas, a crudely done eagle with a syringe in its mouth, a wolf engaged in mortal combat with (i think) a diseased raccoon, and "I LIKE TO FUCK" in big block lettering.

...daddy?

punched him in the harmonica is all time writing

presumably you could still hear the music while making the frequent bar visits ... like, i don't really get why one needs to be able to see the musicians playing in order to have a full concert experience.

I get this, but its annoying to have to constantly move out of the way for these people making all the trips back and forth. I was recently at a show at the Chicago Theatre, which has fixed seating and even when standing there isn't enough room for people to get by down the aisles, and of course the pair sitting in the middle of our row made about 12 trips to the bar.

I remember some girl pushing up to the front of the stage, pointing at Paul Westerberg who was six inches away and asking me "So who's that?"

― http://tinyurl.com/whitepony (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, October 20, 2010 11:06 AM Bookmark

the inability to drink comfortably and free of stress while watching a show are down to structural inadequacies rather than individual failings

I think that's a fair assessment.

Jesus Christ will y'all stop fuckin goin to shows so the rest of us can have good drunken fun. Stay at at home w/yr Lawrence Welk

gladly!

lawrence welk is entertaining as hell btw.

a couple of weeks ago i went to a club w/ a motown covers band cuz its fun to dance to 60s music and the dancefloor was crammed full of ppl standing still, recording & taking pictures of the band on their phones & i was like "..." but also felt sadly close to that whiney post where he wishes some kind of painful cancer on these ppl

that reminds me of a dance party i went to last month, where a half dozen people showed up with hula hoops.

I'll tell you has poor show etiquette: opening bands. It's like, please don't play we don't care about you

This is why I like shows by "heritage" acts; middle-aged folks keep their phones in their pockets.

In re: the people go back and forth to the bar during the show. When I lived in the Netherlands and you would go to decent-sized gigs, they would have dudes with kegs strapped to their backs and long sleeves of plastic cups roaming the crowd. You would just wave them over, pay them, and they would dispense beer to you right then and there. Fucking brilliant, has anyone else ever seen this? It's like the perfect solution IMO.

The same people that get mad at the bar hoppers would get mad at keg dudes moving around their area. It sounds great to me, though

I really wish people wouldn't continue to do the following things at metal shows:

A. Do "hardcore" dances. There's a place for these -- HARDCORE SHOWS. If you're not at one of those, KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF AND MOSH LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. otherwise it just causes people to get unnecessarily hurt

B. drag people (intentionally or semi-intentionally) who have no desire to mosh into the pit

C. get butthurt while they're moshing if they fall over after they're hit by someone by someone who was...merely moshing the same as they were.

No way, I hate the bar hoppers but would totally be down with roaming keg dispensers.

Moshing is tedious when I'm not in the mood and amazing when I am.

I love doing it in venues where it works properly. one of the places I go often is very wide but not very deep, which makes moshing uncomfortable and difficult, but this other place I went has such a deep floor that it's a hell of a lot of fun.

I saw Judas Priest last week and one of the great things about it was that the crowd was like 90% made up of real lifer-lookin' metal sorts who were totally au fait with how to behave at a Priest show, ie NO FUCKING MOSHING

yea, same when I saw Savatage ten years ago

The thing about the keg guys is the simplicity is what makes it brilliant. Unlike bar hoppers/cocktail waitresses there are no decisions to be made except "how many?" You can indicate this non-verbally as well, making the entire transaction silent and pretty unobtrusive. The guys aren't milling around the entire show loudly hocking their wares, like at a baseball game. They just pass through the crowd at strategic moments and you beckon them over.

It would definitely work in this college town.
Not such a big deal since no one goes to shows, anyway.

Sounds awesome. Also semi-self regulating when your stack of cups gets too unwieldly.

Trying to picture a guy with a keg of his beer on his back, standing in a dark pit of audience members, trying to break a twenty from some drunk frat guy.

And me standing behind this transaction.

I remember some girl pushing up to the front of the stage, pointing at Paul Westerberg who was six inches away and asking me "So who's that?"

For Curren$y's set at Pitchfork Fest last weekend, I staked out a spot close to the stage, despite being uncomfortably surrounded by sweaty strangers. I overheard a couple of kids next to me while waiting for him to go on.

Her: So who's this band?
Him: It's not a band, it's a rapper.
Her: Oh. Is he any good?
Him: Not really.

All I could think was "You're taking up my elbow room."

Festival audiences are a thing unto themselves, though.

Shit, that would have made me cry

They had roaming keg dispensers at Lovebox last Sunday. GODSEND.

There was another good solution at Splendour yesterday: drinks could only be bought with pre-paid tokens, bought from a separate desk. This meant that you only had to join one queue all day, which you could schedule to suit. And as there was no cash to faff around with at the bars themselves, service was instantaneous.

oh god the tokens thing has never worked anywhere i've encountered it - i get why it'd be effective in theory but in practice it just leads to TWO huge queues.

roaming drink-sellers are a great solution wherever there's actually room for them to roam, which sadly excludes the vast majority of sold-out shows.

I was once dragged by hair and feet to some Texas Motor Speedway to see the goddam HORDE Festival in full effect. The Republic of Texas had some sort of system where you had to get an I-card, some sort of state verification that your driver's license was real, before you could get alcohol from another vendor. Lines for both booths were hundreds of yards long in the July sun, so I didn't drink, sitting through Dave Fucking Matthews sober as a statue. I hate Texas.

Anyway, that sounds like what would happen if they tried the token thing. Seems like a scam like those festivals where all the vendors take "River Bucks" or something like that, and it's non-returnable.

Lines for both booths were hundreds of yards long in the July sun, so I didn't drink, sitting through Dave Fucking Matthews sober as a statue. I hate Texas.

I don't know if you have other reasons for hating Texas, but this seems like plenty to me.

It's not like Texas itself killed JFK, but I'd understand why Jackie never wended to go back.

wended? wanted

Here's something interesting and semi-related; Alternative Press interviewing bands about what fans should and shouldn't do when meeting their favorite band.

Phew, now I know what not to ask the douches in Pierce the Veil next time I encoutner them.

Don’t ask me to tweet you happy birthday for two reasons: 1. No one should have to ask for someone else to wish them happy birthday and 2. If I do say happy birthday to you, the floodgates open and everyone and their mother wants a birthday tweet.

kinda-sorta not related in any way, but i interviewed fountains of wayne for my zine back around the time of their first album, and asked chris to dedicate a song to my gf from the stage later on that night. he did, but the song he chose to dedicate to her was 'she's got a problem'.

what fans should and shouldn't do when meeting their favorite band.

fans shouldn't meet their favourite band imo

always leads to disappointment

speaking of disappointment, i've practically given up on going to see my favorite bands, let alone meet them.

i just gestured at the stage and threw my hands up in exasperation like are you even AWARE of where we ARE right now

― night of the living based gods (flopson), Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:52 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark

<333333333333333

Meeting your favorite artists can be awkward, but you have to remember there's no social rules for when a stranger and an intimate meet. You think you KNOW these people but you don't, at all, you're a complete stranger to them. Personally, I like to shake their hands and say "Thanks" and be on my way. Length social interaction and unrealistic expectations is what leads to disappointment.

Having said that I've had almost all positive experiences meeting musicians.

Personally, I like to shake their hands and say "Thanks" and be on my way.

yep!

every once in a while if its someone I've been listening to for 20 years, I'll hit them with a quick question about the making of a song—rap legend Milk D hit me off with a pretty detailed story about the making of the "Top Billin" beat fairly recently and I was psyched. But if it's someone newer, I usually just give a pound and dash. I passed Yelawolf in a hotel lobby, and I had been listening to his record non-stop that month, but I didn't really have much more to say than "Love your record to death, keep it up, man" and then I bounced.

basically, i think the rule with famous ppl is you get one question, so make it not stupid.

In my experience you should always start off with "Can I show you my tattoo of you?" and start undoing your pants.

SHANE TOLD of SILVERSTEIN
What is the one question fans should not ask you?
“Will you sign my boobs?” “Do you get a lot of groupies?” “Can I be your groupie?” Those questions are all pretty awkward.

all signs point to: you wish this was a problem for you, Shane.

Ran into Jason Spaceman in a record shop once, couldn't even bring myself to say "I love your music" and then I regretted it.
I was hungover and just too intimidated. He's not really an extrovert, nor am I.
I've had nothing but positive experiences with meeting artists whose music I enjoy, though.

xp: ffm, it's because these bands are basically traveling emo theater troupes that come around to middle schools. the awkwardness of the groupie question for shane probably has to do with broaching the topic of a govt-issued i.d.

Ah, good point! Had not considered that.

the one time i had a non-interview social interaction w/one of my musical faves was when we both happened to be in the audience at a show at a dive bar. i bought him a drink, thanked him for getting me into the replacements, and left him alone.

you shouldn't shy away. i met Fredrik of Datarock and Hiro of Polysics and both of them were really awesome people. Freddy's one of the quickest guys I've ever met and he invited us to the afterparty; was really really fun to drink with

The other one was better, one of my all-time favorite anecdotes. I went to see Kathleen Edwards at a smallish club. I was standing in the back. This dude and his friends were talking near me.

Girl: So, did you bring your harmonica?
Dude: Nah, not tonight.
Other dude: What harmonica?
Girl: Oh, you don't know? Dude's jammed with Dylan, Dave Matthews, Blues Traveler...

I started eyeing this alleged all-star harmonica jammer when it the gist of their conversation suddenly struck me: this asshat brings his harmonica to shows and plays along in the crowd! I can't imagine anything more hellish, and that includes seeing Blues Traveler and DMB.

fucking lol

I'm sure the point has been made before upthread, but it still amazes me that there really are people, it seems, that just go along to a gig (having bought tickets!!!) to catch up with each other and don't pay attention to what's going on on stage. It's bad enough in a loud gig - I've had to move away from constant chatterers in some quite noisy places - but it's unforgivable when the music is quiet and gentle. Go somewhere else, please.

I mention this today because Marissa Nadler posted this earlier this morning on Facebook:

"toronto- another talking crowd. thank god for amelia being here! :-) nothing more humiliating than singing songs in front of a room full of people mostly not listening. to be fair, there were a good number of people that were listening. it makes me want to go back to school to become a dental assistant or something...so thank you to those that were... listening."

I saw that too. I love Marissa but in this case she was the support act so only a minority of people would have been there to see her. Sure the talkers are f*cking rude but tbh I think it comes with the territory when you are the support act and your music is as quiet and still as hers is. Maybe she could have tried calling them out and telling them to be quiet but she doesn't come across as that kind of person. In cases like this I actually think the venue is culpable, they should have staff going round telling people to be quiet.

That wouldn't sell drinks very well. I think if you play quiet music, you need to amplify the fuck out of that shit to run with the big dogs. That's one of the big reasons why people go to shows right - to be able to listen to music at a volume that you can't reasonably achieve at home? Why not crank it, Marissa?

That wouldn't sell drinks very well

Yeah cos putting on shows is just a way of increasing bar takings after all, f*ck the people who've come to hear the music.

Well, I mean, I'm just trying to think from a bar owner's perspective!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNRNCk3YwqE

I mean, I honestly don't know from a bar owner's perspective. Never owned a bar. But I would think that the only time they'd want staff to tell somebody not to do something would be if they were doing something that makes the bar owner liable.

I once saw Lisa Germano opening for eels to a very talkative crowd. During a delicate intro on guitar she deliberately hit a wrong chord and apologized saying "Woops, sorry, couldn't hear myself" and then continued with the song. People laughed, went quiet but were buzzing again within two songs.
That's the most realistic way to deal with it imo, try to make the people notice you, either by making a joke/funny comment or "cranking it" a bit more at times.

p sure you guys would be doing the same if it was some oasis tribute act performing, y'know

like if it's a bar, people will talk, it's a bar, they probably don't care about the music

if it's a gig, people will talk, they might just be there to hang out, check out bands they haven't heard before

i mean if it's that bad, and everyone is talking while you're playing, you're probably not that good, or you're playing the wrong show...

If it was an Oasis tribute act, this would be irrelevant because they wouldn't be performing quietly.

It helps if the support has been well matched to the headliner. I saw Rachel Sermanni - a solo acoustic performer - supporting Ron Sexsmith last week, in a standing venue, and there was no chat whatsoever, even though barely anyone in attendance would have heard of her before. Or perhaps that just reflects well on Ron Sexsmith's audience.

I mean there are any number of reasons why a person might talk during a show and on some nights you might not get those people with those reasons but some nights, you will.

loved it when robyn hitchcock turned up at a bar a couple of months ago for a surprise show and stunned everyone to near silence (this bar never shuts up when ppl are playing)

If the act isn't any good, they probably deserve what's coming to them. That's a bit over the top... what I mean is that a band has to take some share of the responsibility if the audience isn't responding to them. On the other side of that coin, you have a situation like the one Crackle Box describes above.

On a different (but not unrelated) note, a friend of mine yelled at the end of a Yacht gig recently, when the band were taking their final applause, "YOU WERE REALLY NOT THAT BAD!"

I mean there are any number of reasons why a person might talk during a show

the main one being that they are rude ignoramuses

Yes, absolutely, but I was responding to mike t-diva's idea that "perhaps that just reflects well on Ron Sexsmith's audience" that there was no chat during the quiet opening act. I doubt that it reflects any individual artists' audience composition. Rather I think it's probably just a matter of luck that Kaleigh didn't bring her bitchy roommate who needed to blow off steam and have a few drinks after getting in a fight with her boyfriend to the Ron Sexsmith show tonight.

if it's a gig, people will talk, they might just be there to hang out

hang out somewhere fucking else if you want to talk. there are plenty of places to go if you want to do that!

the oasis tribute act point is moot because i obviously wouldn't acquire a ticket to that gig.

can we go back up to the harmonica story for a second, because that is unbelievable

also I tend to harmonize during shows, sorry everyone around me

(esp. shows where the band's singer overdubbed the harmonies on record so they never get performed live)

There's really no excuse. If it's a gig with a cover/ticket price I don't know why you would pay for the privilege of ruining someone else's night. Bars/clubs that have live music generally have more expensive, worse drinks and less attentive bartenders. If you just wanna drink and chat, you know, there are a lot of places for that. I just don't think people should see a gig as, primarily, a social experience. Of course you're gonna see your show buddies and shoot the shit, etc., but the reason to pay money to see music is to see music and not be annoyed by the people around you. The absolute worst, to my mind, is not people who talk throughout the entire gig (such a common and reprehensible type they are beneath comment) but people who talk loudly through songs they don't know/like/get and then become super enthusiastic when the performer plays a recognizable tune. One of the reasons I've turned more and more away from "song-based" sets over the years.

I saw Pete Townshend solo in 1997 at a smallish venue (Chicago House of Blues), and there was constant chatter from most of the audience for most of the show. I was down front, and people were carrying on loud conversations about shit like what they did that day at work. The tickets were pricey for the time ($95), and all I could think was, "You paid $95 to talk about how Julie from accounting didn't get her reports in yesterday?" At one point, Pete was saying to his soundman that he couldn't hear his in-ear monitors, and added, "Of course, it's probably because of this fucking audience."

The odd thing was, people quieted down for probably the least-well-known tune of the night (a cover of the Flying Burrito Brothers' "Christine's Tune").

There's a special place in hell reserved for earlier-billed acts who then talk all the way through the sets of later-billed acts. I witnessed this a few times over, at a recent open mike show. Admittedly, the acts were almost all crap, but the principle still stands!

haha, i don't think i go to those kind of shows where this would ever be an actual problem tbg

i think that "everyone should be getting this on the same level as me" thing is kinda hilarious tho

so what if a group of ppl want to go hear their favourite song and have a laugh while they're doing it

mfb otm

so what if a group of ppl want to go hear their favourite song and have a laugh while they're doing it

BECAUSE IT'S RUDE AND MAKES THOSE PEOPLE LOOK LIKE THEY WERE RAISED IN A BARN

i love that john cage quotation in one of his satie essays "there'll probably be some music, but we'll find a quiet place to talk"

i think we've all experienced the annoying chattering ppl at gigs/cinema/theatre/the bus/at work/in the street/next door/IN LIFE lex, and yes it can be annoying

the opposite of this annoys me more, tbh, when you're at really vibing gig and there's a serious group of ppl near you that aren't vibing at all. at prince/hop farm earlier this year we were surrounded by people like you lot who are there FOR THE MUSIC and not to have FUN totally ruined it for me and i don't think prince was best pleased

can we go back up to the harmonica story for a second, because that is unbelievable

also I tend to harmonize during shows, sorry everyone around me

― Tal Berkowitz - Vaccine advocate (DJP), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 14:55 (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

Guilty of this too. And I'm not a particularly great singer, so I'm especially sorry.

people like you lot who are there FOR THE MUSIC and not to have FUN

Not as bad as the people who won't shut up, but still annoying.

the music IS the fun

though if you mean the people who stand stock still for a performer you're obviously meant to dance to, then i agree

I have to admit, my g/f (bless her) is one of these "talkie" people and she's been shushed a few times (I try to refrain from doing it myself, but y'know, there's a limit). She's not as big a music fan as me, so I think she genuinely doesn't realise she's disrupting things - one or two glasses of wine and she's a uninhibitedly babbling away.

tsk

There's a special place in hell reserved for earlier-billed acts who then talk all the way through the sets of later-billed acts.

Also later-billed acts who talk all over earlier-billed acts.

Don't mind people chatting if they're right at the back, but don't stand in the middle of the crowd blabbing. I mean, most of my social circle is made up of people who I met at gigs, but I have conversations with them before the bands, during changeover, and after, NOT while the music is playing.

i just start chanting loudly SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP not at them specifically but at an angle to the air. they either get it or get wigged out by crazy guy and move.

lol felt like an ass for bringing my roommates to a pinback show way back, i was up front and could hear them in back.

roommates otm

I feel like there is a fertile period during and just after college where you're enthusiastically inviting friends/roommates/gfs out to shows and then you realize it's not worth the trouble.

i've found myself a small group of friends who enjoy shows as much/in the same modes as i do, it's kinda great.

a new entry into BAD SHOW ETIQUETTE @ d'angelo last night

every so often this group of cunts in front of me would, like, light up a surreptitious fag and pass it round between them? crouching down to hide it? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU CAN'T YOU GO TWO GODDAMN HOURS WITHOUT NICOTINE YOU DISGUSTING ADDICTS.

in line with my new ZERO TOLERANCE attitude to bullshit of all stripes i asked them to put it out the second time, and was backed up by the tiny fierce woman next to me AND the woman next to her. they tried to ignore us but one of the women said she WOULD get security if they didn't stub it out.

later on one of the boys got another fag out - with lightning speed my neighbour jabbed him in the ribs and said menacingly "i hope you're not thinking of lighting that"

i hope that at some point in their lives they get cigarettes stubbed out on their eyeballs

i had a similar experience at hawkwind before xmas, tho it was a 'special' cigarette, and tbh it probably would have been a better show if we were all high

haw, i was saying to my friends on the way out that if it had been a spliff i'd have been way more sympathetic and wouldn't have said a thing - i found the fact that it was just a normal roll-up way more offensive

i know, why risk it if its just for a ciggie??

I think that's obvious - because cigarettes are now viewed as way more antisocial and therefore have more rebellious cache than spliffs.

Last show I went to someone came up to me to berate me for reading a book whilst the support band were playing. Maybe they were friends of the band or something. I just told them I could still hear the band, unfortunately.

I'm really hoping you mean that you told dude that it was unfortunate that you could still hear the band.

Yeah, I did :)

sweet :)

nothing was worse than listening to this kid ramble on prior to the Jay-Z/Kanye show on my b'day. I guess taht's the bummer with stadium shows, is having to listen to individual convos. But he wouldn't shut up. He loudly criticized a kid for wearing a Wiz Khalifa shirt to the show ("oh man, wear it to a Mac Miller show, not a JAY-Z show"), and then for about twenty minutes, started going on and on about how he hoped Jay-Z performed "99 Problems" because it was clearly the greatest Jay-Z song of all time (footnote: RONG).

Then he starts playing music on his cell phone (I was like whatev, show hasn't started yet), listening to stuff from Watch the Throne...and then goes "Man, hold on, I got some really old school Jay-Z here. don't think most fans remember this one, maybe some"...so I'm thinking dude is about to queue up his guest spot on "Hawaiian Sophie" or "In My Lifetime", and dude starts playing...."Encore". SPECIFICALLY the Linkin Park-Jay-Z mashup version. Dude was acting O.G. smug about having this song on his iPOD?

Then...he started rapping the opening to "99 Problems"...over...and over...and over behind me. Just the chorus. It was like Chinese water torture after a while because he'd stop for 5 minutes or so, then do it again.

About the time I was getting ready to turn around and throttle the kid, some dudes came up and said he and his friend were in their seats. He tried to argue that no, it was THEY that were in the wrong section, and that this was section 406 (it was 405), so all of us (including me) turned around and said NO IT ISN'T. and he whines loudly that the usher "put us over here", blaming her that he apparently couldn't see the giant "405" that was like 500 feet from his head).

I was so happy when he moved. but I also felt bad for who had to sit in front of him. I hope that when Jay actually did perform "99 Problems" that he had an inner ear problem for just the duration of the song.

*50 feet

looooooooooool

hmmm lex there were some dudes sharing a spliff up the back but they were stood out of the way and no-one, including staff seemingly said anything or had a problem. (they were kinda in the dark though, so maybe they didnt see them.) they werent acting like dicks about it though, which i think is more the issue.

show etiquette stickler for me: you at a packed show, dont dance like you are fucking flashdance. everyone should have a bit of room but dont start waving your arms and shit about like the room is empty. [was abt 15 yards away so it wasnt in my face but it was pissing off the lot next to me.]

old school Jay Z, encore, LOL

I mean to be fair kid had to be like 16 but I mean this is the age of the internet, you should know how ignorant that sounds when you say that out loud!

I keep imagining that when "Hard Knock Life" came on he was thinking to himself "hmm this must be a b-side or something!"

omg people smoking cigarettes, stay the fuck home

not the people smoking

you

nice poem

Yes its clearly the people that aren't engaged in disgusting habits that are detrimental to the health of those around them that should stay home, yes sir.

this is why I try not to go to shows, bcz people are there

Yes its clearly the people that aren't engaged in disgusting habits that are detrimental to the health of those around them that should stay home, yes sir.

― Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, February 6, 2012 9:23 PM (1 hour ago)

engaging in disgusting habits that are detrimental to the health of those around them = humanity

Yes, then that obviously excuses you for being a disrespectful asshole in a public place.

there are a lot of ways one can be a disrespectful asshole in a public place, as I'm sure others have told you, jon.

otm

lol @ smokers trying to justify their disgusting habit

had no idea people clandestinely smoke tobacco cigarettes in clubs, that is weird.

i don't smoke

xp Shakey: I've experienced it every time I've gone to a show at the Regency Ballroom in SF. The weed smoke/smell is much much stronger though.

routinely smoked weed at larger clubs/venues when I used to go to those sorts of places - that was before the ban on smoking indoors tho, I guess.

ont dance like you are fucking flashdance. everyone should have a bit of room but dont start waving your arms and shit about like the room is empty.

^^This is known as the Beatle Bob clause.

i don't get why lex was so angry with the ppl smoking a cigarette

b/c it was a non-smoking venue maybe

b/c he did not want to go home smelling of tobacco or breathe it in

all of the above

> b/c it was a non-smoking venue maybe

everywhere in england is, it's the law.

the relatively new law

i don't smoke and think it should be effectively illegal anywhere in public,, and would probably sympathize with lex in that story assuming it was indoors and non-smoking, but if it's like at a festival or large outdoor concert you pretty much have to dealwithit.jpg when it comes to ppl smoking near you

> b/c it was a non-smoking venue maybe

everywhere in england is, it's the law.

― koogs, Thursday, February 9, 2012 11:19 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wow didn't know this, kudos england

> b/c it was a non-smoking venue maybe

everywhere in england is, it's the law.

yeah I know, I'm English too

the relatively new law

well, 5 years now! maybe my favourite piece of legislation of the past decade

i don't get why lex was so angry with the ppl smoking a cigarette

they didn't get it either. they were cunts

i was v happy that the two women next to me joined in with me

if it's against the rules, and someone complains, then they should either put it out or move elsewhere in the venue where they're not bothering anyone.

smoking indoors is the ultimate expression of how punk rock you are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=btx0aoH2uKI#t=272s

Where in America can you still go see a show at a smokey bar? (nb: I haven't seen a show in like 6 years).

Maryland and Washington, D.C. have had bar/restaurant smoking bands since '07-'08, which is awesome, i sometimes forget how shitty the air in clubs used to be or that people in other states still have to put up with it

Detroit still allows smoking in bars, clubs and restaurants.

i went to belgium a couple of years after the england smoking ban came in, and i remember walking into a bar and feeling as though i'd been hit by a physical wall of smoke

there were a few Low Life parties that were in the basement of this club that you could smoke in. Even as a smoker the novelty wore of in like 1 second.

Interviewed Craig Finn the other day and we talked a bit about gig etiquette. He said:

There’s a weird thing as well of people who want to be front and centre whether they enjoy it or not. There was a girl in New Orleans. Her boyfriend was having the time of his life and they were front row centre. She was crying, storming off to get a reaction then coming back and crying, then being dramatically dejected and flopping down on the stage. We got between a song and I said: “You’re really distracting me. I would like for you to leave.” And the whole crowd started cheering. Then she said: “It’s his fault!” I was like, “It doesn’t look like it to me. You look like the problem.”

He was the one who dragged her along! Wasn’t it his fault?

He was fine for her to go! They probably got married. That’s my experience with those things. Those people find each other and stick together.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/aug/19/kate-bush-asks-fans-no-phones-tablets-london-gigs

no tablets should be a given

where's peter grant and his heavies when you need them

Wait, people bring tablets to shows?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Ecstasy_monogram.jpg

so this fucking drunk asshole muscled his way in between me and this other guy at the front of the stage for Obituary yesterday. being in a less than stellar mood, I refused to budge because I'm tired of being bullied out of my spot. but he kept drunkenly stumbling, yelling in people's ear, and rudely jabbing people. a few times he stumbled into me and I had to shove him to get him to mind his space.

the show starts, and he starts smashing into people (whereas the mosh pit wasn't within 5 miles of where he was - he was thwacking unwitting people). I shoved him hard in anger and he shoved me back and then he crashes into the guy next to me who is HUGE and immediately tells him to fuck off and that he's going to knock his head off.

I walked away because I knew if I stayed there it was going to ruin my show. He wound up crashing into about 4 other people during the night who all told him to fuck off and even Jon Tardy looked at the situation concerned, getting distracted while he was vocalizing.

Not only did the guy not get thrown out, but one of the other dudes there asked us to "leave him alone". Like he was the victim! for being "too passionate" about the music!

between that and the 'press' people who kept shoving past to shoot the show right in front of us (there is no special barricade or anything), it was an aggravating evening that still turned out to be a great show.

I feel like in these seedier, metal or punk venues, these folks who are disruptive and aggressive get seen as "really passionate" about the music so the security/organizers won't address it because they "like their energy". Whereas there was a guy at a show two weeks ago who was outright just PUNCHING people in the moshpit. When he went to crowd surf, nobody caught him and he faceplanted.

I mean I know it's aggressive music and all but unless we're in the designated "fuck shit up" area, unless it's just an accidental surge, we should be free to mind our business, no?

grr.

I feel like in these seedier, metal or punk venues, these folks who are disruptive and aggressive get seen as "really passionate" about the music so the security/organizers won't address it because they "like their energy".

As someone who has been a show organizer/semi-security person at a "seedy" venue -- I don't think it has to do with "liking their energy" -- it's more like they don't want to be like aggro security people at more corporate venues. Was there any security or venue person who could even see what the dude was doing? Unless someone complains or the person is doing something that is likely to bring about actual physical injury to themself or others, it tends to be hands off.

Not to be a dick, but it's kinda part of the experience, just like $7 budweisers in plastic cups are at corporate venues, the asshole jabby oblivious dude is part of the divey metal/punk show experience.

eh, i dunno? i mean, lots of things are "part of the experience" until they're not, y'know? norms change, it becomes understood that going around just assaulting people isn't cool or passionate or w/e. i guess we've already passed that point, since it sounds like HSB was in the majority in thinking this guy was an asshole. it just hasn't reached the point where you get kicked out for it even at seedy venues. like i think if the guy was setting off an air horn or trying to nail other people in the face with spray paint, he would be kicked out.

maybe i just feel obliged to stick up for riot grrl principles or something. there's a risk that accepting asshole dudes as "part of the experience" is on the continuum towards the show only being welcoming and feeling safe to certain people, or even being outright dangerous to others. i think the hope is that we're on the continuum away from that. like 10, 20, 30 years ago a different, i think much greater(?) quantity of asshole aggro masculine behavior was normal and part of the experience, and now it's not, or less so (?). not trying to say you're just excusing it obv!

It may be a part of the experience, but it's one I'm growing tired of.

This guy almost knocked over a husband and wife who were deliberately tucked in the corner to avoid getting clobbered.

Obviously shit happens. When I take a collateral damage hit from a collective surge, I usually laugh about it and wear the bruises as battle scars.

This guy was not even trying to incite a mosh...he was just flailing about like it was his own private space. The lady in question SCREAMED at him and her husband almost swung on him.

Idk like...I often go to shows to throw elbows and don't usually get too up in arms about it but the dude last night just felt....diff I guess.

yeah, if it wasn't bro on bro aggro behavior, I would look on it a lot differently.

yeah that stuff to me is all in good fun (and I like to join in often, less so now that my back is iffy). one of my fav memories was at Repulsion at Maryland Death Fest, going in a pit with guys that outweighed me by 100 pounds, getting flattened, falling in the street, cutting my knee and having blood gush from it, leading to an infection. we all laughed it about like friends afterwards and I wore my field dressing with pride.

can also be a cross-generational bit of fun - I remember starting a pit with a kid 15 years younger than me and although he could run circles around me (I'm out of shape) it was a blast. nice kid too.

between that and the 'press' people who kept shoving past to shoot the show right in front of us (there is no special barricade or anything),

These are even worse than the obnoxious "passionate" guys...

what killed me is one of them didn't have any kind of quality equipment and was getting terrible angles so I'm like 'wtf is this *really* for'?

"...and the crowd were turning so you hear on the video they were whistling and it got very uncomfortable in the room."
Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/finley-quaye/86898#gZdRhYIhUYR3gz4L.99

Is whistling bad etiquette at concerts? I thought it signaled approval.

What kind of fucking show starts at 9pm sharp?

Quaye has encountered various problems in recent years. In 2012, he was found guilty of aggravated assault. The singer also admitted possession of cannabis in 2003.

What a troubled soul.

"I am sorry, I will not sit here and pollute my venue with bullshit"

is this guy the Yngwie of promoters or

"And I considered that there could be magic, so that we would get him on."

Am I the only one thinking the promoter was rather brave and OTM for pulling the show? If you watch the video, you can see why.

lol definitely: https://youtu.be/FcdA_4FlKuw

4:13
"I suffer from alcoholism and stuff"
"Woohoo!"

hahaha. I wonder how long that riff had been going before the video begins?

It says in YouTube description: video is last 5 minutes of 30 odd minute set.

What kind of fucking show starts at 9pm sharp?

― everything, Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:40 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Uh, when do gigs usually start?

Finley Quay's second album stiffed because he's such a dick that he pissed off everyone he worked with at the label, at distribution, in radio plugging, in his management team, that no one wanted to work with him anymore. So a promoter pulling him offstage 20 years after he had a bona fide hit - not a surprise.

xpost. Last three shows I was at (Young Fathers, Owen Pallett, Spriing) all came on close to 11:30pm maybe? Maybe this is a regional thing.

an american thing, yes.

uk band shows still finish around 11 due to licencing laws. which usually means a 8 pm start.

Depends on the venue; the Cavern in Exeter was(is? I'm too old to go there now!) licensed until 1am or later as a nightclub, so bands would go on at 11pm when I went to shows there.

last night, at Rockstar Mayhem Fest, the show was so undersold that they decided to make it a General Admission show. This means that everybody who bought lawn tickets were upgraded to seats/pit, etc.

I bought a pit ticket, noticed this, and shrugged. Another fan blew up on social media and is publicly and loudly demanding a refund of the difference cos she paid premium price.

idk, what are thoughts on this? my thought is the promoter doesn't owe the fan anything if he/she got exactly what she paid for, and that this type of thing happens all the time (I got upgraded to a lower bowl seat at a Meek Mill show when I purchased upper for the same reason). Live Nation almost always offers a "pay $10 and upgrade to a seat" deal the day of for shows that haven't sold out, too. It seems to be arguing "other people should have paid MORE, so reimburse me!".

while I wouldn't argue with someone giving me back money, it seems a pretty o_O demand to make if your seats weren't downgraded.

(note the purchase of said pit ticket was months in advance - I didn't buy day of or anything, and neither did the fan that is complaining)

Yeah, feel like this is sorta like if you buy something that's 30% off and next week you go back and they've knocked them down to 50% off... that's the way it goes, and you got the benefit of securing the purchase early, which probably was worth something to you.

i dunno, i kind of empathise but i wouldn't throw a shit-fit. if i'd spent significantly more than the people who got upgraded for free, i'd kind of feel a bit annoyed.

My main source of annoyance would be my area suddenly being way more crowded than it would have been otherwise, more so than the cost.

people get upgraded on flights

eat the rich

NA that I could see - in this case, it was so undersold that the pit was like 40% full, so it didn't really make a diff.

Doctor that was exactly my thought - I got the security of knowing I had a pit ticket on the day tickets went on sale (also paid extra for a 'souveneir' ticket). so some other people spent less. who cares.

yeah, if the pit wasn't even full after they let everyone else in, then it's hard to fault the venue.

side note: Atlanta heat in July is nothing to fuck with. I almost passed out during the first set and my shirt was covered in a slime that, while technically was just sweat, felt like the shit in the subway in Ghostbusters 2 probably felt.

http://insider.ticketmaster.com/going-to-a-concert-alone-tips/?c=TMSM_fb_us&sf12756268=1

Real difficult to enjoy a show when every 30 seconds some asshole and his entourage is trying to squeeze by you. This must be the eye of the needle thing they talked about in the Bible.

Ruined Anthrax's set for me.

what's your alls opinion about requesting to know when a specific band goes onstage? Obviously this applies mostly to shows at smaller venues, and in this instance, I'm not talking about local shows, I'm talking about national touring acts with local openers.

lots of people, me included, have asked. one promoter often posts the set times in his FB invites. many local promoters here won't give them out. One has stated the reason being "they want to promote everybody supporting all of the bands". I can appreciate what they're trying to do, to make it worth the opener's while, but I didn't buy the ticket to see the local openers...and, being a frequent concertgoer, I've often seen the locals enough to know whether I like them or not. Additionally, I have a hard time sitting through 5 sets (my mind wanders, I get tired, I drink more due to boredom, etc). it depends on my mood - some nights I do stick around for the openers, but on nights where I just left work and am mentally gassed, I often only have the energy for two bands. seems kind of lame to be held hostage to watch a band simply because I guessed wrong when they might go on.

But, I do know they want to prevent situations where the openers play and nobody is around to watch them. they also aren't under any obligation to give that information to me, either.

but sometimes I also need to know because I might have other plans earlier in that night and need to know if the headliner is going to go on before I can get there (in that case they're often more accommodating).

I always appreciate it very much when promoters post set times. And I would bet that it's beneficial for them to do so overall. Posting that information allows people who are on the fence about going, due either to time constraints or fatigue concerns, to make an informed choice. That choice could go either way, of course, but my hunch is that you'll get more people deciding to go based on that information than deciding to stay home.

And even if some people do stay home, that could still be good for the promoter in the long term. If a concertgoer ends up having to leave without catching the headliner's full set (because they have work in the morning, or have to catch the last bus/train, etc.), or shows up too late to catch the whole thing due to earlier commitments, then they might well develop some resentment for the promoter/venue and be less likely to come to shows in the future. It may actually be in the promoter's interests to let them know they should skip this one.

I would love it if all shows posted show times. I had to really badger a venue to let me know that a band was going on at 11.30pm. If I'd gotten there at 8pm I'd have gone home fuming by 10.30 (was heavily pregnant at the time). It definitely made me wary of going to that venue in future without finding out times.

I don't give out set times on the rare occasions I set up a show with multiple artists. Most of my shows as a promoter are single artist evenings -- if there is more than one artist on the bill, either they are touring together or it's a show where all the artists and I agree that the bill works as a whole evening. Frankly, I have to fight harder for and am a little more dependent on the goodwill of the artists than the punter who just wants one out of three acts in a three hour evening. Then again, I am not putting together pop shows and am doing them in theatres and halls that aren't primarily loud stinky places.

I get the impression from upthread that US shows may have more variable timings than UK ones? B/c I get a bit annoyed by the badgering of promoters for exact set times - really "there are 3/4 bands, this is the running order, doors are at 8.00 and curfew is at 11.00" is all you need to work out roughly when you should be there, any extra information will probably turn out to be wrong due to amps blowing up or touring band getting stuck on the motorway or anything else that could possibly go wrong. If it's an early show or a late show then it's essential that the promoter tells you this (like, if the doors open at 9pm and you have one act who will go on at 1am... yeah, people need to know this). Also most people assume no bands go on until half an hour after doors, so if you know you've got to get things started before that, then give warning.

Mostly my annoyance is due to a certain sort of entitlement that permeates through the typical requester's post, though. Actually having full information can be great and useful. It's just the posts all reek of "I'm only going to see my friend's band, fuck the rest of your show and all your effort, you will cater for my every whim". It reminds me of the guy who tried to barter the door price with me because he only wanted to see the first band b/c it was his mate. NO, FUCK YOU.

US shows vary wildly. Doors could open at 8 and nobody goes on til 10 and the last act isn't done til 1:30 or whatever. I hear where TWU is coming from, but I also think kinder and others make great points - it's not unreasonable for people in all kinds of circumstances to want to be able to plan their evenings a little more precisely than a five-hour block standing on a hard floor in a loud dark place. I don't know how to reconcile that with not wanting to screw the first act, who in a three-act bill probably "needs" the show more than anybody else and will obviously be the first to get trimmed if it's a completely a la carte kind of situation. I'd like to imagine JRN is right that in the end more business and goodwill would come to the promoter who makes all information available, but even if that is the case, it doesn't help the no-name local opener playing to an empty room.

I think the most useful might just to be extremely clear about when doors open and when the first act is really, no bullshit, supposed to go on. Let people do the math for the rest if they want to.

emil.y otm, this is what normally happens (and I quite like when you get to a venue and set times are posted up). The 11.30 show time was a bar in the UK though (not a typical 'gig venue' but does put on a lot of shows. The same bar, I turned up for another gig at like 9pm and the headliner had already been on.
I went to see a support act in the US and thought I'd stick around for the headliner, luckily I asked when they'd be on because it was like 1am.

If this was typical I'd think long and hard about buying tickets for shows. I think as long as you have rough start and finish times for the whole thing that's enough - it's when this is lacking I get pissed off - and people on really tight schedules should be able to find out about a specific act.

I contact the FIRST band on the bill via either Twitter or Facebook and ask what time they go on. They will almost always answer before showtime (I think they know for sure after soundcheck) and just count out from there. In Seattle most shows are over by 12:30 in bars/clubs and much sooner in large venues.

All I got to say is dive bar metal band bills kinda suck as they always want like five bands or more to play in a night. You got to have some real mental and alcohol constitution to hang through 5-6 hours of death metal with an odd hard rock or doom metal band thrown in and still be wanting to throw down at 2am. The shit that really sucks is that the guys that live an hour or two out of town get "headlining" bill which means you are playing to a couple freaks and the sound guys dog while the local guys are home playing Halo, smoking bowls and eating nachos when your dumb ass gets to the stage.

Otm

I hear you. I just think I'm doing more for everyone involved by doing well-thought-out, my personal guarantee that nobody sucks shows at non-shithole venues than I would by telling people that Yob is on at 1:48 am unless Jimmy's Chicken Shack goes long but hey there are $1 drafts all night.

i've always wondered - in the US it seems de rigueur for gigs to go on significantly past midnight. is this just in cities with reliable night-time public transport? in most of the US cities i've visited, public transport's not that great in the day let alone at night. or do people just not drink so they can drive? or do they shell out for taxis?

(always want to know the stage times myself, i'm aware they might not be exact but people have lives to plan that might not involve drinking crap overpriced beer in scuzzy gig venues to the sound of bands they don't care about) (or alternatively if i assume the headliner's on at the usual 9-9.30pm time in the UK, i don't want to get there to find they actually started at 8pm)

I was actually hoping a promoter would respond to my query cos I was genuinely curious. I mean I get it - you have to do right by the bands you book or they won't want to book. for me I just have an issue sitting through that much music in one night.

I think that's why I prefer festivals where I can pick and choose.

or do people just not drink so they can drive? or do they shell out for taxis?

no they pretty much just drive drunk

when I went to Welcome to Rockville in Jacksonville this year, I was having trouble finding my car, and I was walking along the curb. Cop that's directing traffic was like "yo man I wouldn't be walking in the street like that, most of these drivers are drunker than Hell".

I was like well then I wouldn't be much safer on the sidewalk, would I?

In DC most (if not all) venues post set times on twitter. Very helpful.

Promoters here don't post set times pretty much ever, and they delay start times waiting for people to show up, which gets into a vicious circle of people not showing up til later and later because bands start later and later. Sorry, fuckers, headliner starting at 1:30 on a weekend is hard to stomach; 1:30 on a weeknight is impossible. i've pretty much stopped going out to shows now. WHERE ARE MY SLIPPERS & BATHROBE?

yeah where's my bathrobe, good question

Are promoters/venues not informing the public of lineup changes becoming a new thing? tonight I was gonna go to a local metal show cos there was an interesting death metal band called Masticator from West Palm coming. So I get there and they ask me who I'm there to see and after I give their name they're like "oh, they...actually won't be here tonight, they bailed". the FB event from the venue still had their name in the title, and the venue had been making posts about the show throughout the day, but all they did was go in and update the show description to remove the name of the band that bailed with no other comment (and then deleted my note warning other concertgoers that they wouldn't be there).

a few months earlier, I went to a touring festival show where the promoters/venue made no comment about two bands that would not be showing up that day and one angry fan posted a seething rebuke on their page as he had driven for hours to just see those two and then promptly peaced and went the fuck back home.

on the one hand, I can see that with festival shows (even if I disagree w/ not making the announcement), esp when the no-shows aren't the headliners, as you always run the risk of not getting the full lineup. but when the 'headliner' of the local show bails, what's with not saying anything and trying to sneak one past people?

the thing that has been frustrating me about shows for the last few years are the steady stream of rude fucks who decide they deserve to shove by you to get to the front even though you staked your spot out an hour ago.

to the point where I tend to pick shows at places where I know the layout makes that a non-issue. i have mild claustrophobia, I can't focus on a show if I'm constantly being banged into and have to turn my head and let you by. if I decide to tell you to fuck off and block you or tell you to sod off, that's another thing taking me away from the concert I paid for, even though it makes me feel better. one dude banged hard into my shoulder and i nailed him in the head with my still semi-full beer can a few years ago.

so I usually wind up either finding a spot where there's not much traffic, or get up front if I'm early enough. it's not an issue at 98% of the shows I go to, but those 2% frustrate me to the point where I can't enjoy myself.

is this just a 'me' thing or does this aggravate anybody else? I'm not talking about someone who went to take a piss and is coming back to the spot their friend saved them, I mean people who legit are latecomers who want to trudge their way to the front when there's no feasible way to get through and use your body as Jenga pieces.

tale as old as time ime

beauty and the beatdown

meanwhile, I feel guilty if I'm standing even partially in front of someone who is shorter than me (which is most people).

you think you're in a decent spot, then 30 secs before the band comes on this endless stream of fuckers just keeps on coming, culminating in tallest guy in the world stood square in front of me.

If there's gonna be jumping, he has a backpack on

and he's holding up his Ipad to video the show

this has always happened -minus the iPod - ime and i went to my first show in 1997 (korn, limp bizkit, helmet at the barrowlands in glasgow)

People see me (a short person) and it’s like a fully lit corridor opens up in front of me. I’m easy to pass so everyone chooses to pass right in front of me. Annoying but I don’t see it changing unless I grow a foot or so taller.

otm: has always happened (first show was The Ocean Blue in 1993). I like to stand in the back and off to the side, even though I am fairly short, so I have freedom of movement and my main show partners were all like 6'3" so I took over their blocking people anxiety.

Lol The Ocean Blue! I won one of their albums off the radio.

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

(I will also gladly move if asked -- i.e., to make room for someone's friend -- though the strategy seems to work out well.)

Second row or stay home

Yah - there's goofs at shows when I stake a spot (9x outta ten, I'm just looking for best venue sound). I tend to not let it bug me much, but I'd be liar if I didn't say that there's just certain bands I don't see anymore. Sometimes it helps me when I say to a goof, 'hey, I'm recording the show, gimme yr email and I'll make sure ya get a link to torrent or cloud sharing solution' - & that usually chills things out a bit.

the last time I was in a prime show watching spot was because friends wanted to stake out a place so we were upstairs against the railing (terminal 5, terrible venue in ny) and it was humid as shit (august), sold out (pj harvey)and i just had people pressed up against my back the entire night trying to burrow their way past me. It sucked so bad.

i have the claustrophobia thing as well as the fire thing, so my desirable spots are never near the front (unless the crowd is sparse, which is fairly common).

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020 8:13 PM bookmarkflaglink

(I will also gladly move if asked -- i.e., to make room for someone's friend -- though the strategy seems to work out well.)

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020 8:14 PM bookmarkflaglink

Yea if i am choosing a spot i will typically scan behind me to see who i am standing in front of since i'm tall. I will move over if someone shorter than me is behind me. Sometimes unavoidable but generally I'm a hippie at shows, i just wamt everyone to have fun

Our House of Blues i swear gets oversold. I went to see Meshuggah one night on a Monday, nowhere near sold out, had a blast. Next night, Bad Religion sells the place out. I went onto the floor, all the way to the back.

Once the pit opened up, i couldn't flinch without making physical contact with someone. People's heads brushing my adam's apple, a few accidental head bumps.

I started breathing heavy and then found a spot that opened up when some people vacated the floor so i could at least breathe.

I hate HoB. Even the one in Vegas has the same shitty layout

I'm with J0rdan's original post.

I am sick of being in a good spot watching the music only to hear the loud conversation cut through from people on both sides.

Like why are you even here

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020

The last show I was at (Liz Phair) was seated, and I was up front (lucky!)… everyone stood when she started playing, and so I did too… but I was super self-conscious about blocking the view of folks behind me. So I sort of stood awkwardly “sideways” most the show, facing the dude to my right, in an effort to minimize my effective surface area. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(I was in the 2nd row; so if I didn’t stand, I’d be looking the whole time at the butt of the guy who had the front-row center seat.)

the worst 'neighbor' i ever had at a show was at Pulp in i think 1998 (they were touring This is Hardcore). i was lukewarm on the band even then, but being 14 years old my friend and i staked out spots in the front early on. He spent the time grabbing random women by the arm and helping them towards the front (i.e. in front of us), sitting on the floor and setting fire to any litter he could find with his lighter and, towards the end of the show, grabbing the left shoe off my foot and hurling it into the middle of the crowd. I had to wait until the room cleared out to find it. The guy was like the same age i am now.

xpost was it a good butt?

I always--always--end up close to the woman with the most piercing voice in the venue.

I don't mind people acting enthusiastically for the show (as long as you're not bowling me over as a result of your enthusiasm). but like...look, there are tons of bands on any bill I'm not there to see, some I hate. if I have shit to talk about the band or am completely disinterested and want to talk to my friends, I go outside. where I can hear, for one, and where I won't be shouting over the music and ruin something else's time.

any time I'm at any show to see someone that isn't the headliner at this one particular venue, I have to deal with people dicking around in very loud, distracting ways. the other night I would have moved but unfortunately where I was standing was the best available sight-line combined with best area for sound (this venue is very spotty). wanted to be stubborn and say "why should I move, I was here first and shouldn't have to".

I did see something at a show once where this fan was standing near the back, near the merch area, and he was texting, and it was an opening band, and the bass player in the band pointed at him, pantomimed texting with his hands, and flipped off the fan. then when the fan looked confused, did it again. all while still somehow playing the bass. in fan's defense, this was a sprawlingly large venue and he was very far away from the stage and wasn't actually watching the show or obstructing anybody for doing so, but it was hilarious

Um … fuck that bass player, I suppose. (Or don’t.)

When you’re playing a set on stage, who has time to care about something like that?!? Weird.

Yeah, that comes across very entitled and self-important to me. Would the musician have acted the same way if someone in the audience were writing in a notebook?

I saw Jeff Tweedy once call out people for holding their phones at a Wilco show.

Roger Waters has a voiceover tell the entire crowd to 'fuck off' right at the beginning of his show nowadays.

Lol yea I heard that last show

Pleasant fellow

What the message actually says is "if you like Pink Floyd but not Roger Waters' politics then you can fuck off to the bar." Which I think is something well worth saying.

Long show review whose structuring “hook” is the band berating the crowd for a lack of enthusiasm: https://racketmn.com/this-is-the-last-sleater-kinney-show-ill-ever-review

Oh yeah, saw that review by a former ilxor. Not a good look from Brownstein imho, although it might have been more gentle than "berating"

I’d never been called “tepid” quite so gently in all my life. Granted, Carrie Brownstein hadn’t directed her comment at me specifically; you might even say that I (notebook, pen, working, etc.) had something of an excuse for not exactly kickin’ up my heels, more so than the many paying customers nodding in subdued approbation for Sleater-Kinney at St. Paul's Palace Theatre on Saturday night.

Not that any of them—any of us—had some obligation to go crazy out there, as the singer/guitarist acknowledged even as she noted what she more euphemistically called our “shyness.” When she thanked us “for bringing whatever version of yourself here that you could tonight,” it came off as a genuine (if a tinge Portlandic) attempt to meet a reserved Minnesota audience where they stood.

although it might have been more gentle than "berating"

Yeah maybe I should’ve said “chiding”

It’s funny bc when we saw the Breeders recently, the crowd was very tepid. I just chalked it up to “tired Gen Xers,” but the crowd for Liz Phair at the same venue was much more lit.

My wife saw Madonna recently (much larger venue), and she said the crowd’s energy collapsed as soon as Madonna came onstage, in a weird way…

I was at the S-K show, "chiding" would still be far too strong

My thesaurus is coming up empty for synonyms of criticism milder than chiding, perhaps Sleater-Kinney are admitting that they themselves are the problem?

it's just a different vibe with MN audiences

I’ve seen plenty of shows in NYC where the crowd is just standing still. Esp for these older bands, are they expecting moshing?

xpost I just saw Unwound in Jersey City on Sunday and was in maybe the most violent mosh pit I've ever seen first hand. I think part of what made it terrifying was that so much of Unwound's whole thing is that many of their songs go from thrashing to more mellow passages very suddenly and then during the mellow parts I would forget that I was still in the pit and then I'd get my bones crunched as the more serious fans were ready to pounce the moment the band went back to thrashing. Super fun show and they played lights out.

On the note of show etiquette, there was an older couple that moved near the pit about halfway through the set (there was at least one older couple in the pit and they were having a blast) and the husband was being really standoffish towards the younger punks who were just having fun. The band played For Your Entertainment to close out the set and the pit opened up for the start of the song. The husband stood defiantly in the middle, refusing to clear out and kind of looked around daring everyone else to do something about it. Then he tried to fight one of the younger punks when the pit closed, but people pulled them away from each other and the old dude left.

I get not wanting to be in a mosh pit, but he very literally walked right into it.

Maybe Sleater-Kinney did expect moshing!

Standing on the edge of a mosh pit and getting pushed in classic or dud

We used to call that area on the edge of the pit the loony line, as you'd have to be a lunatic to stand there. Further forward of course you'd get the stagedivers landing on your head and giving you neck compressions. These days I prefer a nice comfy seat tbh.

how loony do you have to be to want to see a show without getting groped or kicked or injured?
mosh pits are a gigantic dud and always have been imo. same for crowd surfing or anything that puts bodies and hands into contact with each other.

unless it is a hi 5, that is ok

lech otm.

discussion here+on the sleater kinney topic reminded me when i intervened between two drunken souls the time we saw the sea+cake...

drunken soul #1 was being annoying since the opener. i won't run down all of their bullshit, but my patience was being tested. i was not the only one.

drunken soul #2 had reached their breaking point. unfortunately, they did a silly thing and flipped ds1's ballcap off their head. ds1 said some very violent things in a very violent way. nothing physical, but it was escalting. i was about 5 feet away+decided to speak up.

"GENTLEMAN. the happiest band in the world, who both of you paid money to see, is right there (points at stage)."

moment of clarity? idk, but ds2 walked away (with assistance from their friends).

big sigh. it was during "crossing line."

no, there was no "pit" at this show. it was the sea+cake ffs.

only time I was in a mosh pit was during Andrew WK, the people were super nice and picked up everyone who got knocked over. I imagine most mosh pits aren't like that

every mosh pit I've ever been in has been like that.

that's the mosh pit etiquette. Unless its a big metal band with teenagers at their first gigs who dont know the rules.

In the UK what we generally call moshing is actually pogoing anyway.

hey old school heads, here's a thing:
the first time i saw sonic youth (2006), there was no pit.

One thing with smoking being taken out of the clubs is you don’t have the lit cig in the mouth to deal with unruly people moshing outside the designated lunatic fringe. ‘oh did my lit cig hit yer face…ooops sorry, things going crazy you know…’

i feel like theres a middle way with this stuff, i love a good mosh pit but imo its also pretty easy not to hit or touch someone who clearly doesnt want to be hit or touched

like obv once in a great while you get people like the guy in Ubiquitor's story and thats a different thing, but moshing into ppl on the fringe who clearly dont want to be involved and being like "its a rock show what did you expect nerd" is disgusting savagery

When I saw Fucked Up, the pit was insane, just 10 sweaty bony dudes flinging their elbows everywhere. The whole floor cleared, all the women and smaller dudes and anyone who wasn’t in it to be beaten to shit pressed up against the walls. I was super disappointed the band didn’t say or do anything, in fact they seemed to enjoy it. Weird given what I know of their politics.

This is probably excessive in terms of thinking, but for me it’s just thinking ahead - “what kind of band is this?” “What is likely going to happen in the crowd in reaction to the music?” And then situating myself accordingly. I don’t see a lot of shows these days where pits are likely to erupt. The last one was Lightning Bolt, in 2018 and 2019, and I guessed accurately where the danger zone was and stayed far enough away from it to avoid getting sucked into the void.

Nothing wrong with the void as long as those within it have enough self-awareness to contain theirnon-violent mayhem to said void.

(2018 *or* 2019, I meant. And agreed, H.P.!)

re: moshing

Moshing can be incredibly fun at the right shows, as a bonding experience amongst super-excited fans. Moshing can also get you hurt, like my friend John, who broke his leg doing it.

Moshing is supposed to only include the willing. However, thanks to the laws of physics, even the most well-meaning people can take a tumble into innocent bystanders. And...there are lots of not-well meaning people in the pits.

I've made plenty of friends in pits. I've also been punched in the stomach (twice) by assholes taking cheap shots, and once kicked in the chest by someone who inexplicably took a flying leap at me.

so I have mixed feelings on it. which is to say I think it's perfectly fine whenever everybody abides by the accepted rules, and confines it to a localized area and nobody is there to hurt anybody or so intoxicated that they go crashing into other people just trying to watch the show.

but when even one or two people decide to act like assholes, it can easily ruin it.

also crowdkilling, the practice of deliberately harming people who aren't even in the pit, is fucking psychotic and everyone who does it should be arrested for assault. these dorks at deathcore shows that try to legitimize it by saying "why go to a show if you're just going to stand there" are pricks who have probably never suffered long-term debilitating injuries. but deathcore sucks so it doesn't surprise me that few of those dorks are there to actually listen to the music.

I was never a true pit warrior, but when I was going to shows with truly wild pits (Fishbone, Revolting Cocks, Circle Jerks, Ramones/GBH/Warzone, Suicidal Tendencies/Exodus/Pantera) in the late 80s and early 90s, there was absolutely a much better sense of etiquette — bands telling people from the stage to pick up anyone who fell over, etc. I definitely remember a palpable shift in atmosphere between 1989 and 1990, which took place for me at two different Red Hot Chili Peppers shows. The first one was a free outdoor gig in 1989; they were opening for Killing Joke, who I didn't stick around for because my friends had to leave, but the crowd was all punks and freaks bouncing off each other and having fun. The second gig was a headlining show at the Ritz (the "new Ritz" that used to be Studio 54) in NYC, and the crowd was full of shirtless dudes in backwards Duke hats punching people in the neck, and it sucked.

i always laugh at dorks who go to House of Blues shows in Orlando and think they'll get away with whatever they want. like...they have 2 active duty cops that hang by the door, and the security is pretty much zero tolerance, there are no warnings. normally not a fan of this level of enforcement presence obv because ACAB and I've seen security outright manhandle people at shows and festivals at other venues, but the people employed at the Orlando HOB aren't that type. maybe it's being on Disney property idk.

still the most amusing thing I saw was at a Bad Religion show, twenty seconds into their opener ("Suffer"), this guy was absolutely terrorizing people on the floor and he was ejected immediately. he didn't even make it halfway through their first song and his night was over. watching his face turn from that of a hellion to a whimpering dog in three seconds, I wish I had a screencap.

Co-sign the etiquette. The worst beating I ever took in a pit, and this was after years of death and thrash shows in the early 90s, was at Rev Horton Heat.

one of the longest controversial and still unresolved show etiquette debates came to a head last night in the most passive aggressive 'fight' I've ever seen at a show.

I still don't 100% know what started it, but the Madonna show being an arena show, and the show starting with mostly dance numbers, most people were standing.

in front of us, there was a lady with her friends who were standing, and this group of people two rows behind didn't like that, as they wanted to sit and couldn't see with them standing. I don't know if words were exchanged prior or what, but the people in back began shining their phone flashlight on the standers, and the standers in front started mouthing back and flipping them off every time they did it. It became obvious that they then were not going to sit again for the remainder of the show, out of pass-agg revenge. even during the ballads, the one instigator wouldn't sit.

this passive aggressive battle continued for about a half hour. it always looked like it was going to build to an actual fight but....never did because each side would then hear a song start that they liked and forget only to remember they hated each other two minutes later and restart it.

Security showed up after the 'skirmish' had long dissipated and one of the participants had actually left, when there was only 5 minutes left in the show.

but like...what IS really the accepted show etiquette for standing in an arena? mom and I sat often but the people in front of us didn't, but we didn't really get mad about it or say anything because I didn't feel like it was fair to harsh their vibe since we were taking a breather. but when I would stand I kept looking behind me to see if anybody was sitting because I'm a people pleaser who's always afraid of upsetting people.

i feel like it's kinda accepted that people are going to be standing at arena concerts, but is there an expectation that during certain songs, a la ballads, everyone sits to kinda give everyone a break? were the light shining dicks being children too?

idk....I never know what people's thoughts are on that. I usually go to shows in dingy clubs where it's not a thing.

Side issue, but imo the light shining dicks were being dicks because they lights probably distracted other attendees more than the standers themselves.

well distracted me enough that I kept paying attention to their little fight, yeah.

Seats are for sitting. It’s not a dancehall

counterpoint, it's a concert playing dance music.

(fwiw I would lean sitting myself, but I personally would find it hard to fault people for dancing to dance songs)

“Live to tell” is not dance music

tbh shit like this is why I never go to concerts that are seated

Is general admission usually cheaper than seats at arena shows? Sucks for older people who can't be on their feet for extended periods of time and are basically forced to look at people's backs the whole time.

xp - Yep, I'm sure that was the only song she performed all evening.

She probably also did “used to be my playground”

Is general admission usually cheaper than seats at arena shows? Sucks for older people who can't be on their feet for extended periods of time and are basically forced to look at people's backs the whole time.

― beard papa, Friday, April 5, 2024 4:15 PM bookmarkflaglink

at this particular one, there were no GA seats, as the floor was fully seated as well (and almost four figure ticket cost). even the nosebleeds though were expensive. yay concert economy in the 21st century

She probably also did “used to be my playground”

― calstars, Friday, April 5, 2024 4:16 PM bookmarkflaglink

sadly, no. the ballads were ....."Live to Tell", 30 seconds of "Crazy For You", 45 seconds of "Don't Cry for Me Argentina", "Take a Bow", and...if you count "Bad Girl". out of a 2 hour show.

so most of the songs were dancey, but not all.

I feel like if most ppl are standing (in your section or the show in general), that sets the tone, and you just have to roll with standers in front of you. Nothing wrong, I guess, with very politely asking someone to sit during a ballad, but they may not be cool about it (...you know how ppl can be); and I don't think they're in the wrong for choosing to stand. Obv this sucks for someone with limited mobility or who's unable to stand... not sure if there are seats with accommodations for that (but I doubt it?)

It would be weird for someone to be, like, the only one in their section standing – but not everyone would be self-conscious enough to even that (as you and I would be), and I guess then it's between them and the folks behind them.

*even avoid that

I almost saw a fight at a Crowded House show this past year. One guy stayed standing during a couple of newer songs, when of course most other people were sitting down (which is standard old people concert behavior). A few people behind him started grousing, with increased anger. The guy turned around and basically said, hey, this is my favorite band, I want to stand! The people behind him got even angrier, so the guy turned around entirely and started to approach his critics. Security intervened, calmed him down, and he finally sat. And like 2 seconds later the band started one of their hit songs and everybody stood up again.

I'm with calstars on this. If it's a seated venue sit the fuck down and don't obstruct the view of others sitting behind you. It's just basic good manners.

Yes. otherwise don’t be surprised to see yourself in the horrible savages thread

Playing devil's advocate here... so people who go see a concert for a group or artist that plays dance music that can't afford floor tickets are just fucked and must stay seated?

If it’s really dance music there wouldn’t be seats

Sure, in an ideal world. But I saw Janelle Monae at the Chicago Theatre once and it was non-stop dance songs. I think you might have lost a limb or an eye if you suggested that crowd should have stayed seated.

the urge to adopt a hardman black-and-white opinion on stuff like this is so tiresome

Chicago Theatre is where the Crowded House show was. It's also one of those places where if you dance in the aisles, the ushers will likely make you go back to your seat.

the people shining their phone lights to punish people dancing at a concert are weird and obnoxious, the people standing constantly are somewhat inconsiderate

I really felt like it was two groups of inconsiderate people trying to win approval from everyone around them that the other was awful but nobody else gave a fuck...other than me, because I am addicted to watching conflicts in public events.

*everyone else* - "wau Madonna is suspended 100 feet in the air"

me - "man the energy in Seat 10 is palpable, there might be a beer-cup toss coming"

smoking (cigarettes) seems to be a thing at shows recently. had to move at the Kim Gordon show last week because the smoke was too strong (and I don't feel I'm particularly sensitive, other folks were moving as well). and when performers light up on stage, you get people hooting approval (like, it's freedom, man). younger crowd doesn't remember how bad it used to suck going to shows in a cloud of smoke.

Rosalía's show at the Bill Graham last year was an absolutely beautiful experience - except for the insane fight that broke out right in front of us towards the right hand side. It was pretty intense, to the point one of my friends threw her water at the people fighting prompting others to do the same which finally seemed to calm them down. For sure affected how I felt the rest of the night, the anxiety and paranoia cut into the sheer ecstacy of the show (which was insanely great). Hadn't seem something like that before at a show up close.

I also hate mosh pits. Closest I ever felt to possibly dying in a club was at the NIN show at the Cow Palace in 1999 for the Fragile Tour. My feet left the ground as the crowd moshed in a super densely packed area and I noped the fuck away from that noise. I was young too. I'd rather sit in a seat and smoke a fatty or eat a stem and a cap any day

Oops, not "in a club" per se, but at a show.

I was at a Tom Waits show at the Chicago theater in the 90s & it was all seated all the time except one dude in the front row to the side of the stage who got up and danced to "I Don't Wanna Grow Up" & security kept making him sit down, just pure childlike joy getting kneecapped by authoritarian bummer through the whole song.

The only song I’d stand up to at a Tom waits concert would be “what’s he building in there”

hahaha I covered that song live once! love it.

I remember being at a sold out Joanna Newsom show on the Ys tour (also one of the best shows I have ever seen), this debate broke out and she mentioned that the argument had happened at almost every gig on the tour, she had no opinion, and "you all just need to work it out" iirc - eventually they actually moved a stage monitor because the very small group of standing people had had their view blocked by it.

there is some broken/malware link in this thread but I do not have the energy/time to look for it at the moment

I would like to state that the worst audiences for concert etiquette are classical audiences filled with old people.

I saw a show in Millennium Park here once (I want to say She & Him?) that was super packed. I talked to a security guy, and said something like, wow, this crowd is weirdly nuts, isn't it? And he shook his head and said it was nothing compared to the classical crowds, when the CSO was playing.

The only song I’d stand up to at a Tom waits concert would be “what’s he building in there”

Pretty sure he did this at the same Chicago Theatre show! I don't remember anyone standing up for this one specifically, though.

smoking (cigarettes) seems to be a thing at shows recently. had to move at the Kim Gordon show last week because the smoke was too strong (and I don't feel I'm particularly sensitive, other folks were moving as well). and when performers light up on stage, you get people hooting approval (like, it's freedom, man). younger crowd doesn't remember how bad it used to suck going to shows in a cloud of smoke.

Where was this that you could smoke at a show?? and Kim or a band member were lighting up on stage?? I haven't seen a performer smoke on stage in many years (like probably close to 20).

cat power was puffin away a few months ago in LA

I've got a couple of good slightly older than me friends who are decidedly unhip, which makes them fun, because they are generally up for anything. Case in point, three of them came along with me to see Marc Ribot last night, despite having no idea who he is. (Which kind of reminded me of one time I dragged friends and their college roommates out to see John Zorn at the Knitting Factory in 1993). Anyway, one of the three didn't like the show, which is fine, so wandered off to the adjoining bar/club to watch a shitty band playing for free. The four of us convened there after the Ribot show, and maybe it was because I was at least 1 1/2 drinks behind the rest of them, I was just not feeling it, for reasons better suited to some "bad music" thread. Still, my friends were digging it, which, again, was fine. But at one point one of them - I'll call him "Ron" because that is his name - yelled out "Freebird"! I turned to him and just said, "why are you doing that? don't do that." And he looked at me with absolute innocence and assured me "no, it's OK, it's something people do at concerts!" And I said, yeah, I know, but they really shouldn't be doing it, let alone in 2024. And a second or two later someone in the back also yells out "Freebird!" and my friend Ron turns to me and says, "see, it's something people do!" And I said really, I get it, but it's been pretty played out for years. And Ron just shrugged and says "I don't know, I think it would be really funny if they played 'Freebird.'"

Freebird shouts weren't funny in 1991 much less now

Bill Hicks was right.

"Freebird, Freebird, keep saying it, eventually it'll be funny"

I had an idea back at its ironic request peak, that every band should learn to play it and then play it, start to finish, whenever requested. And then, inevitably, someone would request it again, and the band would play it again. And within a week every audience everywhere would have stopped requesting it.

I did it once. At a Dead Can Dance show. I plead guilty to being 18. But they asked for requests, so really it was their own fault.

I could imagine them doing a pretty good version of it.

I could imagine Marc Ribot doing an interesting version

I read of a band (not Southern Rock) that played "Freebird" in full every time someone yelled for it. The irony would be if they became known and loved as the Freebird band to the exclusion of their regular material.

xps to majorairbro: Kim wasn't smoking, this was younger guys in the crowd. also people walking around with unlit cigs in mouth. and, no, smoking not permitted/legal.

have seen a few people smoking on stage recently, including David Thomas with Pere Ubu last year (Wayne Kramer on guitar, so got Kick out the Jams!).

Remembering the time I saw Built To Spill in the early 2000s and they played Freebird. That was the last time I listened to Built To Spill.

Ha, me too (on both counts). I feel like the same night I saw BtS do "Freebird," George Harrison had just died, and they did a great "What Is Life." The might have done another cover that night, too, like maybe Cheap Trick's "Dream Police."

lol nailed it, memory like a steel trap!!!

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/built-to-spill/2001/metro-chicago-il-3e8797b.html

Marc Robit is boring af imho

If you can’t smile at “Freebird” I feel bad for you

My old stoner rock group would do a few bars of sweet home Alabama if it was yelled to us a few times on stage.

I would think that if your band was known for playing "Freebird" in full every time it was requested, your shows would be nothing but endless versions of the song, and you'd wind up being the musical equivalent of that Tim Robinson mime performer whose promise to give money to the audience every time he breaks silence guarantees non-stop frat-boy chaos.

IT'S A FUCKING CUP

What are you doing?! What are you supposed to be doing?!!!

My old stoner rock group would do a few bars of sweet home Alabama if it was yelled to us a few times on stage.

I would think that if your band was known for playing "Freebird" in full every time it was requested, your shows would be nothing but endless versions of the song, and you'd wind up being the musical equivalent of that Tim Robinson mime performer whose promise to give money to the audience every time he breaks silence guarantees non-stop frat-boy chaos.

― henry s, Saturday, April 13, 2024 2:14 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

you would essentially be Big Mouth Billy Bass: the band

Opposite concept I thought would be funny: saw Tim Kinsella play solo in Chicago when I was there and he started to play his ear-worm "whose afraid of Elizabeth taylor", just the opening guitar line. The audience "wooo"'ed, myself included at which point he said "nah, I don't feel like playing that one any more, you can't get everything you want people".

It was kinda funny, but also, I just wanted the guy to play the hits, nor his boring ass new material!

N-e-ways, I thought it'd be a great bit for aging, pissed off rocked groups to try, ideally multiple times a night

lol feist did that with a broken social scene tune when i saw her.

Ray Davies would do that with "Lola" and maybe some other tunes. He would end up playing them eventually though.

ha I am betting Jonathan Richman has never, ever done this

Freebird is great, by the way. Ironically requesting it at shows is lame.

otm on both counts, also it is fun to play

Each band must gaze deep into the audience's soul to find out if their desire for "Freebird" is ironic or sincere/

Mark Eitzel and Vudi were once booted from a Bark Psychosis show for loudly requesting "Tequila", per an AMC feature in the early 90's, I wanna say Melody Maker or maybe Lime Lizard?

Actually, the best version of this trope would take place at a Lynyrd Skynyrd show. When they come out for their final encore, asking "y'all know what we're gonna play now, dontcha?", the whole audience stares back at them in silent bewilderment.

Each band must gaze deep into the audience's soul to find out if their desire for "Freebird" is ironic or sincere/

― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, April 13, 2024 5:08 PM

i like this. treat it like challenges to review the replay in sports: you only get a few, so use 'em wisely!

Am I imagining it or did Skynyrd preface Freebird in concert by asking “what song is it you wanna hear?”

My parents had a Lynyrd Skynyrd greatest hits CD when I was younger and on the live version of Freebird that closed out the album, they did in fact preface it by asking the crowd "what song is it you wanna hear?"

Freebird rules.

I have always wished there had been a song called “Slow Bird” in the 70’s to complete the cycle:

“Free Bird”…”Free Ride”…”Slow Ride”…

It's kind of dangerous for a bird to fly slow? You could just change the metadata of Neil's track and it'd fit

My parents had a Lynyrd Skynyrd greatest hits CD when I was younger and on the live version of Freebird that closed out the album, they did in fact preface it by asking the crowd "what song is it you wanna hear?"

That's were the tradition started!

Xp there’s always “Danger Bird”

My parents had a Lynyrd Skynyrd greatest hits CD when I was younger and on the live version of Freebird that closed out the album, they did in fact preface it by asking the crowd "what song is it you wanna hear?"

Xp that's what I was saying!

every time someone yells out free bird a band should just immediately do a 20 minute version of marquee moon. the nerd free bird!

but wait back up on this thread what do classical audiences do that makes them the worst? i must know.

every time someone yells out free bird a band should just immediately do a 20 minute version of marquee moon. the nerd free bird!

xpost Security told me that for the outdoor shows, half the audience claims to know somebody high up - the mayor, the head of the orchestra, whatever - and they are all relentless and demanding and obnoxious trying to jockey for better seats. Imagine hundreds of entitled tipsy people saying "do you know who I am?" and then trying to sneak or push past you to get to the front.

The point isn't whether the song Free Bird is a good song, it's that shouting it at shows to be funny is stupid and way beyond expiry

How did this start? Does it go back to the call-and-response on the live album?