Michael Jackson: Classic or Dud?

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Okay, for many the undisputed "King of Pop" but I don't recall him being mentioned much here. He had many hit singles but I sometimes feel that his legendary status often outshone the quality of his work. What do you people think?

james e l, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

'beat it' is great, obviously

as an aside. i love it, when, in 'earth song', he suddenly shouts 'what about the elephants!?', as though he just remembered about the elephants. he's really upset about the environment and that, and then, all of a sudden, there's the elephants, and its like the final straw...

gareth, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Thriller was, commercially speaking, a bigger success than Off The Wall. However I do prefer the latter. For those two records alone I would rate him classic.

Stevie Nixed, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Michael Jackson is clearly a classic. I'm trying to think of an overall bad album from him and the only one that comes close is _HIStory_, which isn't so much bad as it is ordinary. Pretty much all of his up-tempo singles are great (exlcuding "Black Or White", maybe) and a surprising number of his ballads work, too. Add on top of that the fact that in real life he's such a freakshow that punks and anarchists everywhere shuld curl up and die with envy, and there's really no question.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Dud, Dud, and thrice fucking Dud. THRILLER has aged more like milk than like wine. Why are people so afraid to admit that his work is well under par? The sky won't fall. The man's best days are well behind him, and he's become a freakish parody of himself. HIS MUSIC IS NOT TIMELESS. Perhaps brief moments of the Jackson Five have earned their place in rock history, and indeed there were handfulls of decent moments circa OFF THE WALL and THRILLER, but let's face facts....they were isolated moments of disposable pop...and not even classic pop at that. He has done precious little in the past fifteen years to sustain his reign o'er all things pop (given his SELF-proclaimed status as the "king of pop"...what an asshole move that was!). The man's a narcissitic creep...why do we reward him? And I'm not even going to mention those allegations of child molestation. I think Jarvis Cocker of Pulp should be fucking KNIGHTED for his brilliant piss-take a few years ago. At least Pulp make listenable records that age well. FUCK MICHAEL JACKSON...and JANET TOO for that matter. May they all rot.

alex in nyc, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Alex:

I would hate to live in your parallel universe of horrifically-dated Michael Jackson songs. Personally, I'm happy here in my world surrounded by "Rock With You", "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough", "She's Out Of My Life", "Billie Jean", "Wanna be Startin' Somethin'", "Human Nature", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "Smooth Criminal", "Liberian Girl", "Leave Me Alone", "Dirty Diana", "Jam", "Remember The Time", "Who Is It?", "Why You Wanna Trip On Me?", "Scream", and "You Are Not Alone". I'm also glad that, in my world, an artist doesn't have to have a good song out right now to be considered a classic.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Anyone named Jackson should be considered classic for the opening of "ABC" alone. Even Latoya.

The solo stuff... Oh my god. So many great songs. He's certainly one of the few artists who can claim to have touched that many people emotionally.

Keiko, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

With all due respect, Dan, I stand by every single syllable I typed. Are you seriously defending embarassing piffle like "Dirty Diana", "Scream" and "Jam"? We're going to have to agree to vehemently disagree on this one. My problem isn't with Jackson's back catalogue as much as it is with his insistence on *MAINTAINING* a "throne" he had precious little right to claim as his own in the first place. His time has passed. And once again, his sister Janet is crap too.

alex in nyc, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

And two more happy souls dance down Agree To Disagree Boulevard.

I can almost see how "Dirty Diana" could be considered embarassing, but "Jam" is pure rockin' fun and "Scream" may be simplistic sermonizing but DAMN does it make me want to shake my booty.

I will not rise to the obvious Janet-fan baiting. :)

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

My brother and I always sing "What about the elephants? Have we lost their trust" as "What about the elephants? Have we got their tusks?"

Always a source of fun, MJ. Often of late that fun has not been musical but I would probably enjoy his greatest hits a lot more than I'd guess just reading the tracklist. Just for "Thriller" though he'd be a classic.

Tom, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

In my world "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" merits a classic on its own. That song is SOOO over-the-top good. Disco's finest moment, for me. Then tack on another 6 or 7 great songs and this one is a no brainer.

Mark, Tuesday, 24 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Gentech post-racial ubermensch synthpop pierrot, we salute thee!

Jarvis v Jackson: a heterosexual harrassing a homosexual in public and getting lots of right on people's applause for it. Something a little worrying there, no?

Momus, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Do we know Michael is homosexual (exclusively?) Do we know Jarvis is heterosexual (exclusively?). The really annoying thing about that as I once (foolishly) said on a Pulp newsgroup is that "Earth Song" is a better record than "Disco 2000".

Tom, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

For the music: Dud of course. Sorry gotta go with Alex here. Never liked him, but thanks to the zillion times you still hear the music everywhere it all becomes utterly meaningless.

For the social, aesthetic, philosophical, satirical implications of the Man, the Myth: classic.

Omar, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I have to disagree with Alex about the Jarvis incident. Jacko's performance lifted the whole evening from the sorry spectacle of a Britpop backslapping contest into something fantastic. Silly, yes! Preposterous, pompous - you bet! But when Jarvis got up on stage it instantly showed up the Britpop scene as small-time indie losers.

Classic for that. Classic for Billie Jean. Classic for being bonkers.

Dr. C, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Along with Tom, I wonder *exactly* where Nick got his information about the sexuality of MJ and Jarvis. I suspect it's a little more complicated than that.

And, for Nick's information, "right-on" people like myself were on Jarvis's side because Jackson, that night, was arrogant and offensive in his presentation of himself as a godlike figure, and of course his proximity to young children would always have seemed creepy anyway. But I'd concur with Tom in that large parts of MJ's back catalogue are classic, as is the man and the myth as a whole, though a lot of the "Dangerous" era now sounds like really embarrassing clock-chasing.

Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

and nobody's even mentioned the Macca duet "Say Say Say" yet! Are you all quite deaf?

Jarvis hardly confirms to the stereotypical check-shirted homo- baiting jock image does he? It was boorish behaviour, but I'm sure that something other than sex-hatred was on his mind when he stormed the stage. Quite what was, I'm not sure, other than a dislike of bombast.

Peter, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I suspect Jarvis was just drunk. The event has gone down in history as being about 'keeping it real'. But I'd have thought Jarvis of all people would appreciate the splendid fakeness of pop.

Jackson is a shining example of how pop performers can extend this fakeness into the realm of their own identities. Seen in this light, the incident was a culture clash between UK and US values on the question of the mutability of identity. The US, a nation of immigrants and self-made people, has always been more Nietzschean about this.

It was also, ironically, a man who lived in a monarchy attacking a citizen of a revolutionary republic because he'd been enough of an upstart to grab the title 'king' for himself, rather than leave it to Prince Charles or whoever.

If we attacked every performer who's ever styled himself 'Earl' or 'Duke' or 'King' we'd end up harrassing half the black jazz and pop greats.

Momus, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

wow! if only Roland Barthes was still around he could make a little essay on the subject for his next mythologies volume. "The texture of the hooligan"

Peter, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Momus, I do believe you're overthinking this. Jackson was "dangerously" close to being smothered by his own deluded behemoth of an ego until Jarvis healthily took the wind out of his sails (actually, was Jackson even aware of Jarvis' actions at the time of the event?) Based on the way Jackson carries himself and his overall conduct, I'd say it's fairly clear that he *BELIEVES* his own hype, and definetely suffers from messianic delusions.

Regarding Nick's allegations that it had something to do with homophobia, I believe you're projecting your own preconceptions onto this episode.

alex in nyc, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I would like to publicly retract my defense of Michael Jackson on the basis of this article. Absolutely nothing forgives extended the shelf life of Limp Bizkit.

Classic for the past music, but now I hate him with the burning fury of a supernova.

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Alex: A world without the odd messianic delusion would be a pretty dull place, don't you think?

Momus, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Might we expect Jarvo to flash his arse at Jaz Coleman next?

Tom, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Point taken, Momus, but I prefer my Deluded Messiahs to have a bit more substance, merit and meat to their work. If you're going to cast yourself in the image of a deity or even a monarch, you best have something more to say than "Mamma Say Mamma Sah Ma Ma Coo Sa!", "Billie Jean is Not My Lover" and/or "What about the Elephants!"

alex in nyc, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Don't think I didn't notice that one, Tom! JAZ IS WATCHING!

alex in nyc, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Do real monarchs have nothing to prove, whereas pop pretenders have to justify every quirk? Why has Jarvis never thrown eggs at Prince Charles?

The next King Of Britain says stuff like 'Modern architecture is a hideous carbunkle' and 'Genetic engineering is an affront to the Creator'.The American King Of Pop builds Neverland and performs genetic experiments on monkeys and himself while grabbing his crotch and singing about 'keeping it in the closet'.

I know who gets my vote, er, sorry, constitutional allegiance.

Momus, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Nick: I'm not denying the value of self-created personae, I'm not into "keeping it real" and the irony is that my attitude to such things is far more American than British. I just thought Jackson's performance that night was obnoxious and deeply offensive and therefore Jarvis had every right to do what he did. I also find it hard to imagine Nick idolising Tim Westwood, who is at least as much a self-created persona, though maybe I'm wrong.

Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Possibly oversimplifying, but I think part of the reason Michael J can be such a compelling figure to some (if not to all) is that he can trip out and do all these very strange to himself and with himself without us having to do it. Slow-motion catharsis, perhaps.

Musically, my radio-drenched youth would have been poorer without him. But frankly, over the long term I think Janet ended up kicking his butt.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 25 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I think that what Jackson was doing that night was naff, to say the least, and Cocker's response was equally naff. As bad as each other, in a way.

the pinefox, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

just who the hell does michael jackson think he is? that night at the brits jarvis was just doing what every other person wanted to do... jesus, michael was looking as though he was some sort of god attached to the crucifix. sorry for the digression from his music, but that is too shite to talk about anyway. do you not think though that all popstars seem to acquire this celebrity status above and beyond their actual musical ability? take the spice girls for example. Can any of them sing? are they anywhere near as talented as say, radiohead? But who will be remembered in years to come? Exactly. Nuff said.

jane r, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

use other words please

ethan, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who can make up such false unsubstantiated statements and still seem to keep some glimmer of a conscience. *Michael Jackson gay??? I mean who cares anyway, but ROTFL... no way. For HOW long has he been in the media spotlight? Don't you think it would have become apparent by now... oh and whats that?... Michael Jackson has been married twice and has two kids to his second wife!!!! *The 'self proclaimed' King of Pop? *sigh* If you had done your homework you would actually find that it was Elizabeth Taylor who coined that phrase, and the fans stuck with it. *...and another thing, isn't it amazing how many people can pull apart MJ and say his songs mean nothing and aren't timeless... but they know the names of the albums and the songs... and are such classics that they are used as covers by other artists... and they go down in history pretty successfully also... OFF THE WALL (1978) - 14 million copies THRILLER (1982) - Still the world's best selling album of all time with 52 million copies sold to date. BAD (1987) - With more than 25 million copies sold, Bad became the second biggest selling album of all time. DANGEROUS (1991) - With 26 million album sales HISTORY (1995) The best-selling double album of all time with 14 million sales - the equivalent of 28 million discs. BLOOD ON THE DANCE FLOOR (1997) - The best selling remix album of all time with five million copies sold

Kylie, Saturday, 17 August 2002 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Classic. if michael is the most famous person of all time, there MUST a reason. Surgery ? Music ? Dance ? Video ? Talent ? Beauty ? Singing ? Perfect shows ? Kindness ? Generosity ? All of those ones ? Maybe...

sansselorus, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:19 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

And he's a Grecian now. Classic.

Tim (Tim), Thursday, 22 August 2002 10:13 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

two months pass...
Clearly, he's a classic. His songs have staying power, period. I defy you to find a song that gets people moving better than "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" or "Billie Jean." "Who Is It", "Stranger In Moscow" and "They Don't Care About Us" are three of the best songs to come out of the 90s, too. Even his new charity anthem (that Sony squashed), "What More Can I Give" in undeniably catchy. The man is a genius and anyone who fails to recognize this is just deluding themselves.

Josie, Monday, 28 October 2002 06:46 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I have "Rock With You", "Beat It", "Don't Stop Till Get Enough", and "Billy Jean" on non-stop repeat. Anything after 1987 = DUD.

Dan I., Monday, 28 October 2002 08:18 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
CD80 'portable' MJ go!

I Want You Back
A.B.C.
The Love You Save
I'll Be There
I Wanna Be Where You Are
We Got a Good Thing Goin'
Shoo Be Do Be Do Da Day
Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)
Don't Stop Til You Get Enough
Rock With You
Off the Wall
Workin' Day and Night
Billie Jean
Wanna Be Startin' Something
P.Y.T.
Thrilller
Bad
The Way You Make Me Feel

(80:54 - chronological, It was difficult to cut "Dancing Machine" since it really shows the midpoint of his voice change. I know there are a lot of great latter day tracks missing here that would be good on a MJ solo stuff only disc).

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 November 2003 22:02 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I was gonna say! This list is seriously missing some "Smooth Criminal"/"Who Is It?"/"Remember The Time"/"Scream"/"You Are Not Alone"/"They Don't Care About Us" action.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 22:38 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Classic, obviously.

Shaun (shaun), Friday, 7 November 2003 22:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

classic
i only got around to getting some michael jackson albums recently...
i wish the video version of thriller was on the album though,its much much better

robin (robin), Friday, 7 November 2003 22:45 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

God he sucks now.

Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 8 November 2003 04:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

He's always sucked.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 8 November 2003 04:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

madam you go too far!

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 8 November 2003 13:25 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Absolute classic.

HIStory and Dangerous are ridiculously underrated. Sure, they're a big departure from Off The Wall and Thriller, but they sounded distinctive and considerably more courageous than a lot of other pop pap out at the time. Forget Black Or White or the execrable Childhood, listen to Jam, She Drives Me Wild, In The Closet, Who Is It, Scream, They Don't Care About Us, Money, Tabloid Junkie, 2Bad, HIStory, even the remix album had high-calibre tracks like Morphine and Ghosts, and none of these sounded remotely like anything else on pop radio at the time. I happen to think they sounded mighty funky.

The most recent album is a total dud though, mostly because (apart from 2000 Watts) it's full of songs that sound like they really really care about being hits, and really really want to sound like all the other songs that have been hits recently. For the first time ever it is Michael Jackson trying desperately to sound like something other than himself, and it fails miserably.

Almost everything else is CLASSIC, CLASSIC, CLASSIC.

syntaxfree, Saturday, 8 November 2003 14:15 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I liked him better when he was a cartoon.

Brandon Welch (Brandon Welch), Saturday, 8 November 2003 15:26 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Jackson Five anno 1970 and his 1979-87 solo output is classic, classic and nothing but classic. No denying that, even though he is a weirdo and the quality of his output has dropped considerably lately.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 9 November 2003 01:09 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Stranger In Moscow, Scream and Money are the keepers for me off of History. I'd add They Don't Care About Us, but the "jew me/screw me/kick me/kike me" stuff is pretty rank.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 9 November 2003 01:38 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"Stranger In Moscow" is definitely a strong track. However, I feel like the general quality of his 90s material was a bit below par (better than most of his latest album though)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 9 November 2003 03:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I don't hate his music.
True, for the most part, nothing else sounded anything like it.
But it's boring, guys.
Just dull, watered-down stuff that was already being done better, by other people.

Even Off The Wall and Thriller are just PRETTY GOOD despite getting the collective nod from most sides as being the over-exposed weirdo's golden era.

But he's a hands-down classic for his legacy as a freakshow media juggernaut alone, ongoing as it is into it's fourth goddam decade!

Whoever saw such a public spectacle than this ageing, trans-racial, trans-gendered, trans-humanist effigy - shyly, yet boldly parading himself through the media hoisted upon his own shoulders?!?

Stephen Stockwell (Stephen Stockwell), Sunday, 9 November 2003 09:43 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Let me take a wild guess - you are about 22 years old or younger. Am I correct?

Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 9 November 2003 10:11 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Just dull, watered-down stuff that was already being done better, by other people.

IMO it was what you call "watering down" that made it better than other R&B.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 9 November 2003 11:49 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Let me take a wild guess - you are about 22 years old or younger. Am I correct?

hey! ageism! and not true for everyone.. alex in nyc is a lot older than that! (yeah?)

Vic (Vic), Sunday, 9 November 2003 12:17 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i'm 29, but how is that relevant?

And Geir, I don't quite understand your question.

Stephen Stockwell (Stephen Stockwell), Sunday, 9 November 2003 13:52 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Anthony, when you say the jew me screw me kick me kike me line in They Don't Care About Us is pretty rank, do you mean it's just a badly written lyric, or do you mean it's offensive in some way?

If it's the former, then I don't have much of a view either way, it's not great, but in the spectrum of bad lyrics I think it's insignificant.

If it's the latter, I strongly disagree. I never saw ANYTHING remotely offensive or anti-Semetic about that line - surely it's crystal clear (though it didn't seem to be to the world media) to any person who, er, can read, that it was basically saying "yeah, do whatever the hell you want to me, kick me, call me a kike, I remain unbowed"? The whole controversy was absurd. The fact that he eventually changed the lines (to something stupid like "do me, sue me, kick me, strike me") is even more absurd. He should have stuck to his guns.

syntaxfree, Sunday, 9 November 2003 15:22 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I don't quite understand which question you are pointing towards, as I have asked no question :-)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 9 November 2003 16:33 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Let me take a wild guess - you are about 22 years old or younger. Am I correct?
hey! ageism! and not true for everyone.. alex in nyc is a lot older than that! (yeah?)


I just turned 36. Michael Jackson is, was, and invariably always will be a deplorably overrated side-show freak. Shun him.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 9 November 2003 16:43 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
rampant capitalism in action:

via NewsNow this was on the news wire:

The Essential Michael Jackson To Be Released
http://www.undercover.com.au/news/2005/jun05/20050630_michaeljackson.html

Sony-BMG will release the 2CD Michael Jackson compilation, 'The Essential Michael Jackson' on July 15.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 30 June 2005 11:11 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

And what better way for one to celebrate their vindication of paedophilia charges (and pay legal costs) than to crank out another compilation. Might Jackson have also overheard those placard-waving fans outside the courthouse on the day of his aquittal agitating for a career comeback?

Stay tuned...

Stephen Stockwell (Stephen Stockwell), Thursday, 30 June 2005 12:40 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

record company exploits publicity to sell records shocker

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 30 June 2005 12:45 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Disc 1 is HOTT, but my own version is better.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 30 June 2005 17:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

He still sucks.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 30 June 2005 20:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

His apologists are almost creepier than he is.

(almost)

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 30 June 2005 20:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"the jew me screw me kick me kike me line ... I never saw ANYTHING remotely offensive or anti-Semetic about that line"

Using the term "Jew" (a noun, an ethnic identifier - NOT A VERB) to connote a negative, stereotyped behavior is totally anti-semitic. gimme a fucking break.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 30 June 2005 20:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Can I just step out a bit on that point and ask the panel (and the world) how and why anti-Jewish racism has come to be in a class of its own, that's implicitly a greater evil than any other type of racism?

Just bugs me.

Stephen Stockwell (Stephen Stockwell), Thursday, 30 June 2005 22:57 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I don't consider it in a "class" of its own, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 30 June 2005 23:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Has its own term, Shakey. I suppose that's not really much of a point you could hang your coat on, but a lot of the discourse on the subject in the media seems to follow a theme that there's Racism (such as that endured by indigenous Australian's, for example, which we don't really like, find kinda embarssing and hope will one day come to an end), and then there's Anti-Semitism, which seems to absolutely require a coordinated national response between governments, the intelligence community and public.

It's on-the-nose.

Stephen Stockwell (Stephen Stockwell), Friday, 1 July 2005 00:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

well, taking your examples, Aborigines are only discriminated against by Australians. Nobody in the rest of the world rarely encounters (much less cares about) Aborigines. Jews, on the other hand, have been stereotyped, vilified, murdered, and otherwise discriminated against in multiple cultures across several continents. For several thousand years. So I imagine the difference in terminology that rankles you (which I think is fairly recent? does the term anti-semite predate the Nazis...?), simply reflects the varying scale of the type of racism in question.

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 1 July 2005 15:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

classic, of course!

Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Friday, 1 July 2005 15:21 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

(I guess my point is that anti-semitism is international and much older than most, more localized, instances of racism, hence the difference in terminology. Tho qualitatively speaking I wouldn't say that anti-semitism is worse than, say, slavery. but such kinds of comparisons aren't really helpful to anybody. "I've been persecuted more than you!" etc. nothing productive there.)

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 1 July 2005 15:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

anyway back to the topic at hand - Michael's like Elvis: classic for the media spectacle/personal drama, but I don't have any use for the actual music. So duddily classic. I don't own any Elvis or Michael Jackson and don't feel the urge to ever listen to either, really.

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 1 July 2005 15:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ten months pass...
classic- The man is a legend. Michael Jackson is the most important musician in our planet. He is definitely the best. He started singing when he was 5 years old, give the guy some credit. Songs like billie jean and Beat it , don't stop till you get enough are easily the best songs in history. I don't know any other popstar who has been successful for 30 years. He is going to be back soon and shock you all!

Tolu, Thursday, 25 May 2006 11:02 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I don't know any other popstar who has been successful for 30 years.

Um, the Stones? McCartney? Robert Plant? Ozzy? (I know, I shouldn't take the bait...)

Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Thursday, 25 May 2006 20:35 (twelve years ago) Permalink

but he's been singing SINCE HE WAS FIVE. fuck that Stevie Wonder punkass!

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 25 May 2006 20:51 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Um, the Stones? McCartney? Robert Plant? Ozzy? (I know, I shouldn't take the bait...)

But let's be honest, he's funkier than those dudes.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:03 (twelve years ago) Permalink

actually I don't think he's funkier than any of them, except maybe Ozzy.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:10 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Okay.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

LET'S AGREE TO DISAGREE

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:14 (twelve years ago) Permalink

He is going to be back soon and shock you all!

in the genitals?

latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Alex in NYC's hate upthread looks hilarious in retrospect.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:51 (twelve years ago) Permalink

it didn't at the time?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:54 (twelve years ago) Permalink

hilariously OTM maybe

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:56 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Michael Jackson is classic, and he has made a lot of great music.

However, he isn't even one hundredth of the Godlike creature that his fanatical fans have turned him into.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 25 May 2006 22:08 (twelve years ago) Permalink

oh geirpaws

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 25 May 2006 22:10 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but when do you ever meet these fans? I mean, they show up outside the courtroom and google their way to ILM threads, but ... are they even real?

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 25 May 2006 22:12 (twelve years ago) Permalink

they are all old abandoned animatronic Disney robots run amok and only Jacko truly loves them

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 25 May 2006 22:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I am a Michael Jackson fan!

Uh, a fan of Michael Jackson's music!

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 May 2006 00:33 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Alex in NYC's hate upthread looks hilarious in retrospect.

I stand by every word of it.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 26 May 2006 01:39 (twelve years ago) Permalink

they are all old abandoned animatronic Disney robots run amok and only Jacko truly loves them

I just coughed up a cup of coffee for laughing.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 26 May 2006 01:40 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Hey, Alex! I can send you a YSI of "Morphine" -- a track as anything by Killing Joke.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 26 May 2006 01:41 (twelve years ago) Permalink

*er, whack

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 26 May 2006 01:42 (twelve years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...
If guilty pleasures are the best kind, I've just discovered the joy that is "Off The Wall". Against my better judgment, my arse is shaking, and disco is rarely better than that, my friend.

And all because I heard "Rock With You" in a porn shop.

Bimble, Monday, 30 April 2007 00:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

eight months pass...

classic (though I'd rather listen to Prince)

I was kinda surprised when I bought HIStory that he says "stop fucking with me" on Scream

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Friday, 11 January 2008 05:36 (ten years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7927497.stm

Page last updated at 08:42 GMT, Friday, 6 March 2009

Jackson eyes $400m comeback plan

By Ian Youngs Music reporter, BBC News

Michael Jackson announces his comeback

Michael Jackson could earn more than $400m (£283m) from a comeback deal involving new music and movies as well as concerts, his promoter has revealed.

The pop superstar has announced 10 gigs at the O2 arena in London this summer.

Randy Phillips, head of AEG Live, which is staging the gigs, said they had a wider deal that could cover a world tour and a 3D film based on Thriller.

He also said: "We're talking to him about helping him figure a new plan for the release of singles, new music."

Last tour

Jackson appeared at the London venue on Thursday to announce his comeback concerts.

He billed them as "the final curtain call" and "my final show performances in London".

Speaking afterwards, Mr Phillips said: "These will be the last shows in London. Whether he will go on from here around the world... this will be his last tour.

"All he's agreed to are the London shows at this point."

He said AEG Live had a "broader relationship" with Jackson.

"We have a film development deal that's part of this to do a film, Thriller 3D," he said.

It would be a new film that could star Jackson himself, he said.

Asked how much Jackson could earn from the ventures, Mr Phillips replied: "If we complete the full three-and-a-half year plan, he could gross over $400m in that time. London could be north of $50m (£35m)."

The star made a five-minute appearance in front of hundreds of screaming fans on Thursday to announce the 10 London dates.

I'll be performing the songs my fans want to hear - this is the final curtain call
Michael Jackson

Is the King of Pop still a thriller?

His first words to fans were: "I love you so much.

"This will be it. When I say this is it, it really means this is it," he added.

"I'll be performing the songs my fans want to hear."

Jackson had been expected to appear at the 02 arena at 1600 GMT, but arrived an hour and a half late for the announcement.

The first concert at the 20,000-capacity venue will be on 8 July, with tickets costing between £50 and £75. They go on general sale on 13 March.

Jackson last toured 12 years ago. In 2006, he performed at the World Music Awards in London, but disappointed fans by singing just a few lines of We Are The World.

Bee OK, Sunday, 8 March 2009 04:50 (nine years ago) Permalink

Michael Jackson: Child Molester or Pedophile?

ilxor, Sunday, 8 March 2009 15:19 (nine years ago) Permalink

Add on top of that the fact that in real life he's such a freakshow that punks and anarchists everywhere shuld curl up and die with envy, and there's really no question.

OTM. IMO GG Allin has got nothing on Michael Jackson. While obviously MJ is less of a freak than GG, dude went from being the most famous person in the world to a freaky looking creep and child molester, and has lost probably millions of fans as a result: it's not how low you go but how far you fall.

samosa gibreel, Monday, 9 March 2009 02:40 (nine years ago) Permalink

Good lord, who cares that MJ out-freaks an idiot like GG Allin? Is that supposed to be a compliment?

thirdalternative, Monday, 9 March 2009 08:48 (nine years ago) Permalink

While the court cases have definitely mattered and cause his downfall, they are not the main reason. I think a lot of people are able to say that, well, he seems kind of weird and maybe even creepy, but he was found innocent, and then he should be viewed as innocent.

His downfall has more to do with the constantly detoriating quality of his output. "Off The Wall", "Thriller" and even "Bad" were all fantastic. "Dangerous" and "HIStory" were not, but still quite good. But then, "Invincible" contained hardly anything of value at all.

I think what he would need now is to do an album with Quincy Jones again. Q has earlier showed the ability to get the best of him, and also to take influence from current music, but without losing sense of the typical Jackson style. If the music holds up, people (well, not all, but most) can forgive him for being creepy as long as he isn't proven creepy in an illegal way.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 9 March 2009 13:37 (nine years ago) Permalink

The BBC got approx. 9000 hits over the weekend for people typing in "bbc.co.uk/O_2" presumably in an effort to find out ticket information

Tracer Hand, Monday, 9 March 2009 13:41 (nine years ago) Permalink

Touring your old hits is always a secure way of getting income for somebody whose artistic prime was in the past. Just as Rolling Stones or AC/DC.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 9 March 2009 13:43 (nine years ago) Permalink

Agree with Geir. But I feel as if those first two MJ albums were mostly inspired by the (at the time) new drum machines and synths. I don't know how easily MJ could return to that sound.

Although, looking at shots of his home studio, it looks like MJ's got an eye for "old school"... I saw Distressors and an MPC-60. Chouette!

Regarding his creepiness. After watching that Bashir documentary, I found him to be far less creepy than expected. Considering that he's an extremely famous, vitiligo'd, surgery addicted, child-abused, multi-millionaire, gay dad and (chaste) pederast, he seemed kind of... normal? Like he'd be fun at a dinner party? Bashir, on the other hand, would have two glasses of wine and start talking about boning chicks.

Tourtiere (Owen Pallett), Monday, 9 March 2009 16:23 (nine years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

pretty amazing how often the phrase child molester appeared in the thread despite the second case being thrown out, and the first never going to criminal court (and rumors flying that Jordan Chandler may come forward and say the allegations were false)....

III IV V (Bo Jackson Overdrive), Wednesday, 15 July 2009 04:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

Your post and this one are the only two times the words "child molester" are in this thread.

LOL me a LOL (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 15 July 2009 04:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

michael s. jackson ws all this white girls

shows you bobs (The Reverend), Wednesday, 15 July 2009 05:26 (nine years ago) Permalink

Your post and this one are the only two times the words "child molester" are in this thread.

― LOL me a LOL (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:18 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

Michael Jackson: Child Molester or Pedophile?

― ilxor, Sunday, March 8, 2009 11:19 AM (4 months ago) Bookmark

OTM. IMO GG Allin has got nothing on Michael Jackson. While obviously MJ is less of a freak than GG, dude went from being the most famous person in the world to a freaky looking creep and child molester, and has lost probably millions of fans as a result: it's not how low you go but how far you fall.

― samosa gibreel, Sunday, March 8, 2009 10:40 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink[/i]

III IV V (Bo Jackson Overdrive), Wednesday, 15 July 2009 05:34 (nine years ago) Permalink

he really did like that massive going up a key thing like in man in the mirror didnt he? listening to a lot of songs i didnt really play that much before, ive noticed he uses it a lot. you are not alone, earth song (i think), heal the world, i think he ruined quite a few otherwise good songs with this device.

titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 15 July 2009 09:29 (nine years ago) Permalink

http://www.gearchange.org/FAQ.html

blap goin ham (The Reverend), Wednesday, 15 July 2009 09:34 (nine years ago) Permalink

you should be aware that it may make you physically sick

titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 15 July 2009 09:39 (nine years ago) Permalink

he mostly did that on his ballads, yea.....course God knows many of those weren't penned by him, and that's a device the Diane Warrens of the world live by. (not that he ever used her to my knowledge but that's besides the point)

III IV V (Bo Jackson Overdrive), Wednesday, 15 July 2009 22:12 (nine years ago) Permalink

"While obviously MJ is less of a freak than GG"

GG's freakishness is completely explicable given his horrible but probably not too uncommon upbringing. MJ's freakishness is kind of singular.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 15 July 2009 22:54 (nine years ago) Permalink

At the very least, GG had nothing to hide. Hell, he was damn proud of his....ummm... indiscretions.

Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 15 July 2009 23:42 (nine years ago) Permalink

so are most neo-Nazis....big deal

III IV V (Bo Jackson Overdrive), Thursday, 16 July 2009 00:03 (nine years ago) Permalink

and MJ didn't molest nobody. INNOCENT!11!!1111

III IV V (Bo Jackson Overdrive), Thursday, 16 July 2009 00:04 (nine years ago) Permalink

pass the Jesus Juice.

Jack Cole (Reginald Mantle), Thursday, 16 July 2009 00:32 (nine years ago) Permalink

I just shit.

III IV V (Bo Jackson Overdrive), Thursday, 16 July 2009 00:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

Who is "WS!" and why is he eating himself and not me?

Spinspin Sugah, Thursday, 16 July 2009 06:23 (nine years ago) Permalink

Kind of amazing hair-on-fire footage

Goethe*s Elective Affinities, Friday, 17 July 2009 17:49 (nine years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

rage, the national broadcaster's late-night clips show over here, are playing pretty much everything tonight in order.

"woah man, flügelhorn" (haitch), Saturday, 1 August 2009 14:39 (nine years ago) Permalink

That's a shame.

Alex in NYC, Saturday, 1 August 2009 14:41 (nine years ago) Permalink

haha, oh alex.

COUNTDOWN - 2nd September 1984 Thriller Dance Competition

^^ have big hopes that this will bring the lols.

"woah man, flügelhorn" (haitch), Saturday, 1 August 2009 14:43 (nine years ago) Permalink

i want to find my disc 2 of HIStory. it ain't bad like everybody says.

Elvin Wayburn Phillips, Sunday, 2 August 2009 05:19 (nine years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsEQU_237cM

Michael Jackson's previously unreleased anti-abortion song, "Song Groove (Abortion Papers)". On the 25th anniversary edition of Bad.

Sister don't read, she'll never know
What about love?
Living a Christian soul
What do we get, she runs away
What about love?
What about all I pray

Don't know the worst, she knows a atheist
What about God?
Living is all I see
What do you get, things she would say
What about love?
That's all I pray

Those abortion papers
Signed in your name against the words of God
Those abortion papers
Think about life, I'd like to have my child

Sister confused, she went alone
What about love?
What about all I saw?
Biding a life, reading the words
Singing a song, citing a Bible verse

Father's confused, mother despair
Brother's in curse
What about all I've seen?
You know the lie, you keep it low
What about heart?
That's all I've known

Those abortion papers
(Hee-Hee Hee Hee-Hee)
(Hee Hee-Hee Hee Hee-Hee)
Those abortion papers (Hee-Hee Hee Hee-Hee)
I'd like to have my child (Hee-Hee Hee Hee-Hee)
Those abortion papers (Hee-Hee Hee Hee-Hee)
(Hee-Hee Hee-Hee).

DavidM, Friday, 21 September 2012 22:35 (six years ago) Permalink

Those abortion papers
(Hee-Hee Hee Hee-Hee)

stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 September 2012 22:39 (six years ago) Permalink

lol that atheist line cannot be right but still, what

teledyldonix, Saturday, 22 September 2012 03:58 (six years ago) Permalink

I can't make out what the word is there but it's definitely not "atheist"

frogbs, Saturday, 22 September 2012 16:35 (six years ago) Permalink

One of the best pop voices ever. 9 or 10 excellent songs. No masterpiece albums. Incredible stage presence...perhaps best ever. Career went to shit after 1982 in terms of song quality. I'd still undoubtedly say classic.

Tyler Burns (burns46824@yahoo.com), Sunday, 23 September 2012 06:14 (six years ago) Permalink

hi

buzza, Sunday, 23 September 2012 06:23 (six years ago) Permalink

four years pass...

Nice list!!

Mine would include Remember the Time in the top 10 i think -- one of my faves to dance to

Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 02:51 (one year ago) Permalink

and I have a terrible soft spot for Man in the Mirror - i think it's just how high he goes in the chorus, it gets me

Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 02:52 (one year ago) Permalink

I like it better as I age. I need to make a....CHANGE.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 03:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Before I click on this, I hope to see 'Stranger In Moscow' on there...

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink

...and it is! :D

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 18:09 (one year ago) Permalink

"who is it" too low

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 18:20 (one year ago) Permalink

what number is higher than #1

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink

I am really missing the full-on melodrama of Earth Song in this list

ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 19:31 (one year ago) Permalink

DJP: "WHAT ABOUT 'EARTH SONG'!?"
Backing singers: "WHAAAAT ABOOUT IT!?!"

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 20:35 (one year ago) Permalink

loooool

ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 20:36 (one year ago) Permalink

#1 and #2 really the truly acceptable choices for those slots.

insidious assymetrical weapons (Eric H.), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 20:38 (one year ago) Permalink

nice choices from Off the Wall, and Leave Me Alone is a sentimental fav cos the tune goes through my head whenever I'm aggravated.

sad at the lack of "Another Part of Me" tho. but maybe we didn't all love CAptain EO

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 23:45 (one year ago) Permalink

I will argue until the day that I die that "The Way You Make Me Feel" is his most underrated single (followed very closely by "Who Is It")

ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 14:50 (one year ago) Permalink

I remember me and my brother making one of those silly joke recordings where you record interviews and use fragments of song recordings to answer questions, and using "Who Is It?" as one of the samples for someone answering the door.

it's also a killer song.

Dangerous as a whole I always remembered as this forgettable album and it's true it doesn't quite have the hooks of previous Jackson, but it's a serious classic. "Why You Wanna Trip On Me" goes hard. some of the hip-hoppy shit around the nu-jack swing makes it sound dated (well, as does the new-jack swing itself), but idk, New Jack Swing is always welcome nostalgia for me.

"Heal the World" can get fucked tho.

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 14:57 (one year ago) Permalink

I blame "Heal the World" for making ppl's eyes roll so hard that they couldn't really get on board with Earth Song (which I almost typoed as "Earth Dong")

ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 14:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Dangerous >>> Bad

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 15:00 (one year ago) Permalink

xxposts
ah, when "Bad" was released, as a fanboy of MJ since "Thriller", I was kinda disappointed.
the only song I found good enough was "TWYMMF".
It's definitely one of the best songs post "Thriller".

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 15:03 (one year ago) Permalink

"Earth Song" is sooooooooooooooooooooo much better than Heal the World.

his ballads were often hit and miss - "She's Out of My Life" is classic, as is "You Are Not Alone", "Human Nature", "Man in the Mirror" (does that count?), but the stuff like "Heal the World" or "Lady in My Life", "The Girl is Mine" is so *screeching halt*

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 15:18 (one year ago) Permalink

"Lady in My Life " is great !!

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 15:32 (one year ago) Permalink

I miss Alex in NYC.

MJ has always been a talented dud—no more, no less. The fact that critical institutions have canonized him in the wake of poptimism's Orwellian victory is a blight upon the musical landscape.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Hi

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh hey.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:50 (one year ago) Permalink

pomenitul otm

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:52 (one year ago) Permalink

wait Neanderthal is Alex in NYC?!? how was I unaware of this

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Lol i am not

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:53 (one year ago) Permalink

I couldnt fill those shoes if i wanted to

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:53 (one year ago) Permalink

haha ok nm

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:55 (one year ago) Permalink

gr8 b8 m8, as they say.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 16:58 (one year ago) Permalink

I miss Alex in NYC.

MJ has always been a talented dud—no more, no less. The fact that critical institutions have canonized him in the wake of poptimism's Orwellian victory is a blight upon the musical landscape.

usually professionals will notify your relativs after you've been Baker Acted.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Omg

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Seriously, though, I never got into the Killing Joke but I always enjoyed Alex in NYC's curmudgeonly contributions. At least he tried to uphold some basic standards, which is an infinitely more interesting approach than the "it's all subjective anyway except when it gets political in which case Anglo-American pop music rulez all lol" circlejerk that so much of musical discourse has devolved into in the past, say, 15 years.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:03 (one year ago) Permalink

From 2001:

For the music: Dud of course. Sorry gotta go with Alex here. Never liked him, but thanks to the zillion times you still hear the music everywhere it all becomes utterly meaningless.

For the social, aesthetic, philosophical, satirical implications of the Man, the Myth: classic.

― Omar, Tuesday, April 24, 2001 8:00 PM (fifteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Now here's a position I can actually respect, because it does what so few are still capable of nowadays: it dissociates the celebrity from his music.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:07 (one year ago) Permalink

The impression you are currently giving off is that you only respect opinions you agree with.

ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Now here's a position I can actually respect, because it does what so few are still capable of nowadays: it dissociates the celebrity from his music.

― pomenitul,

You are talking an awful lot of shit for someone who hasn't read what people have written about his music.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Liking MJ, much like liking Beyoncé, is no longer an 'opinion' in 2017. It's a requirement.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

show us your draft card

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

You are talking an awful lot of shit for someone who hasn't read what people have written about his music.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:09 PM (forty seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There are better ways to waste one's time.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

show us your draft card

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:10 PM (twelve seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

First off, I'm not American. Second off, assuming you're at all serious, thank you for exemplifying the attitude I'm denouncing here.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:12 (one year ago) Permalink

well, you step into a thread annoucing with the clarity of the addled that MJ is a talented dud and imply that admirers are bedazzled by his celebrity – I'm sorry your feet are hurt from getting stepped on

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

I quite like it when others prove my point, so please, no need to apologize.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:16 (one year ago) Permalink

this is like watching a tetherball match where one dude wraps the ball around the pole every time and the other guy curiously insists he's the winner

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:18 (one year ago) Permalink

paedophile

F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:21 (one year ago) Permalink

I would think my opinions about MJ are well known around here but if not... he's got some good tunes up through Off the Wall, p much everything after that I have no interest in. I'm not impressed/engaged by his singing style, tics or mannerisms, the lyrical subject matter, the melodies, the production or really anything at all, and so much of it is over-exposed to the point that I actively never want to hear it again. Like Star Wars, over the course of my lifetime my reaction has progressed from infatuation to active loathing, due in no small part to the religious fervor surrounding his celebrity and the constant drumbeat of "YOU MUST LIKE THIS" from all corners. But setting that circus aside and focusing on the material itself, imo his discography is middling - some early on highs (ABC, I Want You Back, Dancing Machine, I Want to Rock With You, etc.) followed by a preponderance of ridiculous, silly and depressing lows, and it's maybe telling that the majority of stuff I do like all predates his assuming full control of his music; the quality of the input from collaborators like the Motown machine and Quincy Jones is undeniable, I have no reservations about attributing a lot of the things I like in MJ's music to people other than MJ. Generally I don't find his singing engaging, esp not as he got older and it primarily alternated between scat-exclamatory-nonsense and his paper-thin tenor. Post-QJ I don't care for his taste in drum and synth sounds at all, everything way too thin and glossy. And most of the time I don't care at all what he's singing about, about his trials and tribulations as a tortured man-boy fantasist just dgaf.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Οὖτις otm

pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

probably mentioned upthread but John Jeremiah Sullivan's MJ essay is great
http://www.gq.com/story/michael-jackson-john-jeremiah-sullivan-tribute

niels, Saturday, 11 March 2017 20:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Ok, for one thing

The fact that critical institutions have canonized him in the wake of poptimism's Orwellian victory

Lol no. Off the Wall and Thriller, at least, have been in the canon since well before I started reading music criticism in the mid-90s.

Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Saturday, 11 March 2017 21:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Of course taste and all but I guess someone who doesn't find any joy and pleasure in anything he did, at least, from "I want you back" to "lady in my Life" simply doesn't enjoy the same things in music as I do.

AlXTC from Paris, Saturday, 11 March 2017 21:32 (one year ago) Permalink

nobody has to like anything obv but the idea that anybody who likes...you know...music recorded in recording studios that isn't Estrus/In the Red style live-to-tape stuff...wouldn't find Thriller absolutely breathtaking strictly from an engineering standpoint...is pretty weird

it's a lot like Steely Dan or Fleetwood Mac. you ain't gotta like it, but if that doesn't sound amazing to you, I'm a little curious about your aesthetic priorities, because from a mixing standpoint alone, Thriller is a total masterpiece. the chord walkdown after the chorus of "Human Nature," sure that's fucking breathtaking and there's a reason jazz acts started covering it immediately as soon as the album hit the streets, but who knows, maybe Quincy Jones at the peak of his game isn't your thing. but the production on Thriller? gtfo w/any take other than "of course that's great"

though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 12 March 2017 02:25 (one year ago) Permalink

love the demo recording of "Human Nature" by Steve Porcaro. imagining Quincy Jones listening to it for the first time and getting the lightbulb over his head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWdy5i_44sQ

example (crüt), Sunday, 12 March 2017 02:29 (one year ago) Permalink

the walkdown with the alternating major and minor 7ths is missing from the porcaro demo, which is kind of shocking, because for me & for people I've talked to about it that's the hallelujah moment, just so lush

though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 12 March 2017 02:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Quincy Jones' whole crew were fusion guys, not just Toto but Louis Johnson, Ndugu Chancler, Greg Philliganes. That's one reason why Thriller plays like the pure-pop realization of Earth Wind & Fire's late 70s run. I doubt Maurice White ever got $800,000 and 10 months of studio time to make a record. He didn't have Bruce Swedien, either.

Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Sunday, 12 March 2017 04:00 (one year ago) Permalink

That's not to take away anything from those great EWF records or suggest they're anything less than fully realized, btw.

Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Sunday, 12 March 2017 04:01 (one year ago) Permalink

oh yeah but I totally hear you. EWF is one of my favorite bands of all time and their records are perfect, but Bruce Swedien breathes rare air. His work with Rufus, some of the best-sounding music anywhere ever. put that guy on an EWF record and something magic would happen, I don't doubt.

though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 12 March 2017 04:05 (one year ago) Permalink

nobody has to like anything obv but the idea that anybody who likes...you know...music recorded in recording studios that isn't Estrus/In the Red style live-to-tape stuff...wouldn't find Thriller absolutely breathtaking strictly from an engineering standpoint...is pretty weird

Whatever Mr. I-Hate-The-Beach-Boys. I could say the same thing to you about Pet Sounds. We just prefer different emotionally crippled manchild schticks.

Οὖτις, Sunday, 12 March 2017 05:09 (one year ago) Permalink

I am a massive fan of both the Beach Boys and Michael Jackson, for whatever it's worth.

Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Sunday, 12 March 2017 05:49 (one year ago) Permalink

And I don't begrudge anyone for their personal revulsion towards MJ given what we know or have reason to suspect about the man. But I also don't think it has fuck-all to do with the music itself. Lyrics are another matter, probably.

Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Sunday, 12 March 2017 05:55 (one year ago) Permalink

some people dont like slick music, big deal. beach boys / pet sounds is total Estrus style in-the-red production, come on now

a but (brimstead), Sunday, 12 March 2017 19:56 (one year ago) Permalink

e just prefer different...schticks

I think I've explained several times that there's something timbrally going on in the BB harmonies that has always, since childhood, made me feel physically ill, so no, this isn't about giving a fuck about any "narratives." it's just about sound. (I also don't like the songs the Beach Boys write, lyrically or musically, so I struggle to listen to the production afforded to the songs I don't like, lyrics I don't like, and the weird dog's-ear thing that happens when they do the soaring-sliding thing and I always feel like I'm going to vomit)

though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 03:56 (one year ago) Permalink

i appreciate the Beach Boys but i'm kinda the same way. and ugh i'm a giant Cubs fan but JCLC do you remember the song i believe the BB remade as a Cubs jingle? they'd play it on every WGN radio broadcast and it made me want to die.

nomar, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 04:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Barbara Ann...I think that was the one they redid.

nomar, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 04:05 (one year ago) Permalink

beach boys prolly diddled waayy more kids than MJ

sleepingbag, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 05:04 (one year ago) Permalink

And I don't begrudge anyone for their personal revulsion towards MJ given what we know or have reason to suspect about the man. But I also don't think it has fuck-all to do with the music itself

Would you say the same thing about Gary Glitter?

heaven parker (anagram), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 09:56 (one year ago) Permalink

so I struggle to listen to the production afforded to the songs I don't like, lyrics I don't like, and the weird dog's-ear thing that happens when they do the soaring-sliding thing and I always feel like I'm going to vomit
)
cool, we reach. you *do* get why I don't care about post-OTW MJ after all (although swap out "soaring-sliding thing" for "bowchicka-ah-jamawnit-cha")

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 15:19 (one year ago) Permalink

beach boys prolly diddled waayy more kids than MJ

this is a weird thing to say but I guess it hinges on how you define "kids"

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 15:20 (one year ago) Permalink

lol at ppl pretending that not enjoying anything mj did after off the wall is somehow an iconoclastic opinion

dyl, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:45 (one year ago) Permalink

or the fiction that liking beyoncé is now a requirement under the new authoritarian state of music criticism. i guess getting ppl like this is the inevitable side effect of having so many polls based on the 'acclaimedmusic' trashheap

dyl, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:47 (one year ago) Permalink

#allgenresmatter

nomar, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:50 (one year ago) Permalink

Please explain, dyl.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:01 (one year ago) Permalink

one month passes...

here's my rambling take on Michael in the disco era, looking his underrated (imo) work leading up to Thriller plus a peek at the pre-MTV music video "scene"

https://medium.com/@markcoleman57/dancing-with-michael-jackson-remembering-music-video-before-mtv-a0c18b063581"> https://medium.com/@markcoleman57/dancing-with-michael-jackson-remembering-music-video-before-mtv-a0c18b063581

Dogshit Critic (m coleman), Friday, 21 April 2017 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Uhhhhhh...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e62M-5-7ajY

The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Saturday, 10 June 2017 01:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Classic.

Austin, Sunday, 11 June 2017 01:52 (one year ago) Permalink

nine months pass...

On his worst single.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 11 March 2018 02:12 (eight months ago) Permalink

love it. your piece i mean.

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 11 March 2018 12:30 (eight months ago) Permalink


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