Taking Sides: Nick Cave vs. Michael Jackson

michael

Oh, and Nick Cave wins by fucking light years, of course.

jackson

I have massive love for MJ & I'm sure he'll win this poll here but Nick Cave's a better lyricist and songwriter any day, and also sets a sterling example for others by not having sex with children.

yes cave does have one up on michael in that regard i suppose

but, i want you back!! come on!

He did have a 20-year heroin habit though!

"I Want You Back" is like srsly top-5-all-time for me! Still, an honest vote is for Nick Cave, MJ basically trades on 4 great albums worth of material followed by one of the most precipitous drop-offs in the entire history of music. Nick Cave wakes up in the morning with the thought that his best work lies ahead of him. Michael Jackson got rich & shifted his creative interests toward how best to silence the parents of his victims.

turning into a discussion of personal faults again

Nick Cave wakes up in the morning with the thought that his best work lies ahead of him.

He may wake up thinking that, but I'm not sure it's true! For me he peaked around Your Funeral My Trial, which was a long, long time ago. Obviously he'd done good things since then, but still...

(That said, my Michael Jackson cut-off point is probably Off The Wall, even longer ago.)

I really like some of the NC's/bad seeds' stuff I know but MJ is involved in several of the best ever music you can play at a party (and not even mentioning how much I loved him as a kid) ! That said, right after "thriller", there's not much left for me (maybe a bit of "bad").

Nick Cave also a much, much better live show, even once you factor in MJ's dancing

"Remember the Time" is a jam.

Birthday Party over MJ any day

Jackson 5 vs. the Birthday Party would be another good poll.

A Jackson/Cave duet would be pretty great. Maybe if Nick ever does Murder Ballads II

Christ, not even close.

They did both peak in the early '80s, though. But Cave got a lot more ridiculous a lot sooner after that (which is saying something, obviously.)

Plus, MJ lives (and brings to life in his music) the creepy pathologies that Cave has made a career out of method-acting. (Michael sings better, too. Don't think I've ever seen Nick dance; not sure I want to.)

And oh yeah, Michael rocks harder. So him.

And if that's not good enough:

Last Nick Cave album to make my Pazz & Jop ballot: Kicking Against The Pricks, 1986.

Last Michael Jackson album to make my Pazz & Jop ballot: Blood On The Saddle: History In The Mix, 1997.

The titles both rhyme. But MJ stayed great longer. And I overrated that NC album in the first place.

A less lopsided battle, maybe:

Scratch Acid vs. Musical Youth

nate dogg

what would be more enjoyable? Cave covering 'Jam' or Jackson covering 'No Pussy Blues'?

cave has eaten jam, at least

xp Actually, obviously, on his 1997 album, Michael left a pool of blood on the old dancefloor, not the saddle, as I implied above. (And I will give Nick credit for more strongly inspiring psychobilly cowpunk bands, for whatever that's worth.)

Nick Cave also a much, much better live show, even once you factor in MJ's dancing

I have never seen or waych NC live but considering that, at his peak, MJ was among the best performers ever (his singing/dancing from the J5 to "thriller" is just mindblowing), I have some difficulty with this statement !

as different as two live acts can be, surely? MJ the king of the stadium in the late 80's/early 90's.

Nick Cave wakes up in the morning with the thought that his best work lies ahead of him.

The hair dye must have seeped into his brain and made him delusional then. Hard to think of a more boring artist than Nick Cave these days.

Michael sings better

I sing better than Nick Cave!

a collabo is making more and more sense to me- Nick Cave sings "Ben" backed with MJ covering "The Carny"

I think MJ can't sing/dance anymore, that said.
but I guess the point of the TS is to compare them at their best.

Plus, MJ lives (and brings to life in his music) the creepy pathologies that Cave has made a career out of method-acting. (Michael sings better, too. Don't think I've ever seen Nick dance; not sure I want to.)

OTM. I don't understand Cave, like, at all.

a collab produced but will i am. just writing this makes me sick...

sounds more like a timbaland joint

Xpost: I don't understand MJ at all. Seriously. And I've had to put up with his music since the mid-70s.

Please accept my sympathy

there's not a single track by MJ/J5 that you like at all ?

Plus, MJ lives (and brings to life in his music) the creepy pathologies that Cave has made a career out of method-acting. (Michael sings better, too. Don't think I've ever seen Nick dance; not sure I want to.)

OTM. I don't understand Cave, like, at all.

― I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:33 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'm not going to pick nick cave or michael jackson cause fuck that, but are you dudes seriously making this same fucking stale argument that was retarded when it was first made 3,000 years ago? like are you going to pick ted bundy over robert deniro because he lived the creepy pathologies that deniro acted out in taxi driver?

Plus, MJ lives (and brings to life in his music) the creepy pathologies that Cave has made a career out of method-acting.

not real sure this is a virtue. do you like actual murderers better than people who write convincingly about them?

basically you're saying nick cave is worse because he didn't actually rape children

would vote for literally anyone over nick cave

HITLER vs nick cave

This is really tough! Like way tougher for me than Morrissey v Prince.

LOL n/a said it first & better, xpost

I am assuming Birthday Party is not in (or Jackson 5).

Michael Jackson sale at JC Penney's! Boys' pants ... half off!

Seriously though, this thread might be better served as a repository of Michael Jackson paedo jokes.

HITLER vs nick cave

― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dude it's generation vice donchaknow.

xpost: nope, MJ/J5 is/are a complete mystery to me. Just not my thing, and it's not for the want of exposure. Haven't been able to get beyond mild irritation. I'm well aware that I'm in the minority, but I'm sure I'm not the only one.

But then, isn't the point of the thread that this is a completely absurd comparison to make?

i'm not going to pick nick cave or michael jackson cause fuck that, but are you dudes seriously making this same fucking stale argument that was retarded when it was first made 3,000 years ago? like are you going to pick ted bundy over robert deniro because he lived the creepy pathologies that deniro acted out in taxi driver?

The difference is that Ted Bundy hasn't written any good songs.

ha ha ha you're an idiot

I think we should include birthday party and J5... and basically anything they have released/performed.

Plus, MJ lives (and brings to life in his music) the creepy pathologies that Cave has made a career out of method-acting.

god this bullshit almost made me vote cave/hitler.

margaret thatcher vs. nick cave

vote cave/hitler.

― FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 17:08 (23 seconds ago) Bookmark

classic songwriting partnership imo.

Again: "BRINGS TO LIFE IN HIS MUSIC." How is that not clear? And the pathologies that Michael Jackson brings to life, and Nick Cave turns into dead-assed kitsch, have a lot more to do with fear and paranoia than raping children.

"and brings to life in his music"

Huh?

ha ha ha you're an idiot

MJ has written and sung much better songs about his pathologies; it's got nothing to do with sanctioning them. You're the guy bringing Ted Bundy into this when it's a worthless comparison.

Did I miss the MJ songs about cuddling with kids and loving his chimpanzee/giraffe and his Peter Pan fetish?

"Morphine" and "Heal The World" have something to say about chimp-love.

jesus christ, all of you are doing my head in

vote cave/hitler.

― FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 17:08 (23 seconds ago) Bookmark

classic songwriting partnership imo.

lol

vote cave/hitler.

― FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 17:08 (23 seconds ago) Bookmark

classic songwriting partnership imo.

― joe, Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:09 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

LOL'd very hard

lol

i voted nick just cuz i listen to him more and i'm not going to think about it beyond that

i've never heard a nick cave song, i don't think? not intentionally, anyway. i still voted for nick cave.

xp Alfred: the zombies in Thriller represent the children with whom he had improper relations.

then there's that Liberian girl.

leave me alone with ben

and obviously, the P.Y.T...

Nick Cave's badass schtick is more convincing than MJ's ... MJ is only convincing as a badass to those 10 years and younger.

He got flat baby
Kick in the back baby
A heart attack baby
I need your body

A hot kiss honey
He's just a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
So unrelying

I'm such a swine baby
All down the line daddy
I hate your kind baby
So unreliable

A hot buzz baby
He's one of us baby
Another drug baby
You so desire

Trust in me
Trust in me
Put all your trust in me
You're doin' morphine

Hoo!

They got place baby
Kicked in the face baby
You hate your race baby
You're just a liar

Your every lick baby
Your dog's a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
You soul survivor

She never cut from me
She never cut baby
I had to work baby
You just a rival

Always to please daddy
Right up and leave daddy
You're thorwing shame daddy
So undesirable

Trust in me
Just in me
Put all your trsut in me
You're doin' morphine

Go'on babe

Relax
This won't hurt you
Before I put it in
Close your eyes and count to ten
Don't cry
I won't convert you
There's no need to dismay
Close your eyes and drift away

Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol

He's tried
Hard to convince her
To be over what he had
Today he wants it twice as bad
Don't cry
I won't resent you
Yesterday you had his trust
Today he's taking twice as much

Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
Hee-hee-hee
Demerol
Demerol
Oh my Oh God it's Demerol
Hee
Oooh

Oh!

He got shit baby
Your dog's a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
You are a liar

Is truth a game daddy
To win the fame baby
It's all the same baby
You're so reliable

Trust in me
Trust in me
Put all your trust in me
She's doin' morphine

Hoo!

You just sit around just talkin' nothing
You're takin' morphine
Hoo!
Go'on baby
You just sit around just talking about it
You're takin' morphine
Hoo-hoo!
Just sit around just talking nothing about it
You're takin' morphine
You just sit around just talking about it
You're taking morphine
You just sit around just talkin' nothin'
And takin' morphine

Hoo-hoo
I'm going down baby
You're talkin' Morphine

Go'on baby!
Hoo!
Hoo!
Morphine!
Do it!
Hoo!
He's takin' morphine
Morphine!
Morphine!

xhuxk got it right, Cave is awkward and often kitsch. He's had some good moments but he's barely doing anything compared to MJ. Cave covering MJ would be miserable. Unfair match up.

Nick Cave's badass schtick is more convincing than MJ's ... MJ is only convincing as a badass to those 10 years and younger

Whereas Nick Cave's only convincing as a badass to those 38 years and older

Cave is awkward and often kitsch

Oh yes, `cos MJ isn't awkward at all, is he.

But Cave got a lot more ridiculous a lot sooner after that

Oh yes, `cos MJ isn't ridiculous at all, is he.

am i alone in sort of loving nick in ridiculous mode?

xp M@tt: you're not alone!

okay good, cuz dudes in this thread is all like OMG nick cave is just hopped up campy pseudosoutherngothic doomy claptrap!!! and it feels like people wandered into an ac/dc thread and started complaining about them using loud guitars

Nick's arguable "ridiculousness" is evidently relative. Personally speaking, I think the current, porn-moustachioed Cave is a helluva lot more ridiculous than the smack-addled Cave, but that's me.

Either way, he's incalculably superior to Michael Jackson, who is simply objectionable shit on every conceivable level.

you know whos great is nate dogg

you ain't kiddin' homie

okay good, cuz dudes in this thread is all like OMG nick cave is just hopped up campy pseudosoutherngothic doomy claptrap!!!

On the contrary, it's the fact that he's a load of fucking boring middle-aged crud for 42 year old Goths

just like ILM, amrite???!?!?

xp Alex in NYC: the only thing I find non-objectionable shitty about Michael Jackson's adult career is the zombies in the Thriller video. However, those zombies weren't as good as the ones in Land of the Dead

George Romero >>> Michael Jackson

I only recently decided that Nick Cave didn't completely suck, mostly because I only recently heard The Birthday Party.

Michael Jackson was a staple artist in my household from before I was born.

xp Tom D: from what period are you marking as "fucking boring middle-aged crud"? Birthday Party is definitely not boring middle-aged crud, and the first decade of Bad Seeds albums aren't either

lol max

Michael Jackson was a staple artist in my household from before I was born.

Did he touch you in funny places when you were a fetus?

btw tom having been a vikings season ticket holder for 10 years i can listen to whatever homo musik i want and not be a goth, membership has its priviledges

xp He made crafts at the Perry house with a staple gun.

get a new joke

xp

xp2 actually

The Birthday Party were awesome. Early Bad Seeds bit crappy, in retrospect, then got a bit better, downhill from then on.

In contrast, MJ awesome at numerous points in a career that started when he was 7 years old, or sumthin'

xp Tom D: when is then? Bad Seeds definitely had a more brutal/rocking phase and I lost interest when they got more lugubrious ballad-y - somewhere in the late 90s.

Why does Michael Jackson like 27-year olds?

Because there are 20 of them.

doesn't work in numerics

^^ yeah, you're right - doesn't work as well written down. The big hand/little hand joke does though.

am i alone in sort of loving nick in ridiculous mode?

― wassup rockers? (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 17:12

Another day has gone
I'm still all alone
How could this be
You're not here with me
You never said goodbye
Someone tell me why
Did you have to go
And leave my world so cold

Everyday I sit and ask myself
How did love slip away
Something whispers in my ear and says
That you are not alone
For I am here with you
Though you're far away
I am here to stay

You are not alone
I am here with you
Though we're far apart
You're always in my heart
You are not alone

All alone
Why, oh

Just the other night
I thought I heard you cry
Asking me to come
And hold you in my arms
I can hear your prayers
Your burdens I will bear
But first I need your hand
So forever can begin

Everyday I sit and ask myself
How did love slip away
Then something whispers in my ear and says
That you are not alone
For I am here with you
Though you're far away
I am here to stay
For you are not alone
I am here with you
Though we're far apart
You're always in my heart
And you are not alone

Whisper three words and I'll come runnin'
And girl you know that I'll be there
I'll be there

You are not alone
I am here with you
Though you're far away
I am here to stay
You are not alone
I am here with you
Though we're far apart
You're always in my heart

You are not alone
For I am here with you
Though you're far away
I am here to stay
For you are not alone
For I am here with you
Though we're far apart
You're always in my heart

For you are not alone

Michael Jackson jokes make me sad. I think he's a good guy.

i read an interview w/nick cave a few years ago in which he said he goes to an office 9-5 to write his material nowadays, and i was like, it shows. the only NC album i have any real affection for is the boatman's call, which i guess isn't really representative, but he has seemed to just rehash his schtick over and over again for most of this decade. every album sounds the same. so if you're comparing their declines, it's a decline into boring middle age and lack of ideas vs decline into being a tragic clown and figure of fun. and if you're comparing their peaks it's not really fair.

mj at his best obv, but this thread makes me want to listen to the birthday party a hell of a lot more than MJ.

the idea of MJ not committing a lot of "method-acting" and "kitsch" to wax is pretty lol and rockist ("Demerol" vs. "Mutiny In Heaven"), though its rarely "dead-assed" true.

I'm a huge Nick Cave fan but God do I ever hate the Boatman's Call

i watched that nick cave best-of dvd and the descent to neil diamondhood is pretty omg

not that he hasn't started making something out of that

<3 that song : )

always forget how damn tall he is!

Michael Jackson was a staple artist in my household from before I was born.

What, and that makes him infalible or something? Hell, the fuckin' Carpenters were extolled as demigods in my household before I was born, and I'd sooner drop sulfuric acid in my eyes than listen to that crap.

carpenters vs. killing joke poll

Carpenters would slay that poll

or at least not eat it

I imagine it'd be 4 to 1. this one might end up 3 to 1.

MJ's got some really good stuff but he hasn't made anything i could give a shit about since '83 so i'll vote for nick cave

Dude, the Carpenters are fucking awesome, don't discredit yourself here. Karen's drumming slays.

Hell, the fuckin' Carpenters were extolled as demigods in my household before I was born

lol now i'm imagining Alex's house as the meeting of P.A.G.A.N. in Dragnet, sacrificing the virgin connie swail to karen carpenter

Fuck the Carpenters.

carpenters are amazing and terrifying

I prefer the Carpenters to Michael Jackson. Not in a lesser of two evils way ... Carpenters are something I "shouldn't like" but I do.

Terrifying?

hey and you can make eating disorder jokes!!

xp

jesus was a carpenter

...yeah, and look what happened to Him!

Michael Jackson had better lawyers.

Than Jesus? Yes, that's true.

He died!

Michael Jackson died?

See, now this is how rumors get started.

RIP Gloved One

michael jackson is dead.

they always say it happens in threes

prince is also dead

Nick Cave isn't at all well.

Hell, the fuckin' Carpenters were extolled as demigods in my household before I was born

lol now i'm imagining Alex's house as the meeting of P.A.G.A.N. in Dragnet, sacrificing the virgin connie swail to karen carpenter

― wassup rockers? (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, April 14, 2009 1:48 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Fuck the Carpenters.

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, April 14, 2009 1:49 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

= this thread redeemed

I prefer MJ of these two, but honestly I'ma just vote for whoever OP hates more from here on out.

http://www.mccormacksociety.co.uk/mcccds/I%20Hear%20You%20Calling%20Me.jpg

on the strength of music alone, it would be MJ. however, he has entered that realm where i hate his persona and his actions so much that it makes me unable to listen to his music very much anymore. this gives the vote to nick cave whom i like here and there but just about never listen to.

however, he has entered that realm where i hate his persona and his actions so much that it makes me unable to listen to his music very much anymore. this gives the vote to nick cave

Bertrand Russell spinning in his grave statement of the week.

Alex, I'm sorry, I didn't realize until now that you were the one that pit these two together. I still say this comparison is pretty insane. More insane than even Morrissey vs. Prince, but I get you. No probs. Of course Nick Cave stomps all over Jacko, but anyone who doesn't think so really cannot be my friend. That is all.

man was just listening to henry's dream, that album is fierce girlfriend!

at 7:02 on saturday morning another fierce girlfriend would be the least welcome thing i can think of.

Ultimately, the results of this poll are meaningless. It was a silly response to another threat. But if MJ wins, I'll be very disappointed.

thread, not threat.

Actually, yeah, let's go with threat.

MJ is hard core, you are totally wrong!!

xpost: That punchline was so not worth the wait.

jesus christ, all of you are doing my head in

― The-Reverend (rev), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 16:15 (4 days ago)

rev is correct!

Don't care for either artist much TBH, but I still like some Birthday Party shit, and the odd bad seeds track here & there, wheras MJ's mannerisms when singing irritate the fuck out of me even when the music's good.

http://www.thestranger.com/images/blogimages/2009/04/17/1240011828-dscn2875.jpg

You guys realise this thread will soon be invaded by outraged Googlers, right?

Of course Nick Cave stomps all over Jacko, but anyone who doesn't think so really cannot be my friend.

Michael Jackson is head and shoulders above everything Nick Cave ever dreamed about, let alone Cave's actual recorded output.

dude cave had a dream one time where the redhead chick from mad men was a mermaid, sayin

also if you pick your friends based on their opinion of nick cave.....lol

i'm not entirely sure my wife even knows who he is offhand

My wife probably thinks Nick Cave is located somewhere in Kentucky, not far from Big Bone Lick.

dude cave had a dream one time where the redhead chick from mad men was a mermaid, sayin

word? hmmm......

also, Michael Jackson, but I only know Nick Cave from seeing him at LOLlapalooza in the early 90s, plus a few songs here and there ("The Mercy Seat", "Into My Arms", the "Helpless" cover on the Neil Young tribute album). Maybe one of these years I'll give him a further try. From my point of view this poll is hard to fathom.

Of course Nick Cave stomps all over Jacko, but anyone who doesn't think so really cannot be my friend. That is all.

I wonder if anyone was tempted to change their vote after this. I was voting for MJ anyway, though.

I am such a huge Nick Cave stan that you will see me as a talking head in the upcoming documentary about him. His live show never fails to amaze and inspire. His music changed my life. Unfortunately for my one-time idol Mr. Cave, he had no involvement in "I Want You Back," which is one of the 20th century's peak musical moments - shockingly, it's only one of several such moments to which MJ can lay claim. A vote for Michael Jackson is a vote for your own sanity. Hold on to your mind!

In keeping with the idea of "What if these two musicians were in their own mid 90s NBC Thursdays sitcom together?" from the previous thread.

Sitcom working title: Your Shenanigans, Our Trials

Plot: After filing for bankruptcy Michael Jackson starts a new life in Australia, where he lives in the guest house of singer Nick Samson (Nick Cave), who is trying to juggle family life with life on the road as a rock singer.

Episode: The Birthday Party

When Nick (Nick Cave) throws a Halloween themed birthday party for his young nephew he assumed that his houseguest Michael (Michael Jackson) wouldn't be around to try to lure some of the children into the Cave family guest house to watch Nick at Night's Brady Bunch marathon. Can Nick pull off the birthday festivities or will be too occupied keeping one eye on Michael the whole night? And what of this news that Nick's wife (Patricia Heaton) wants Nick to cut touring in half so they can take a vacation to Alaska together?

Guest Star: Christopher Knight. 30 Min TVPG

"A vote for Michael Jackson is a vote for your own sanity. "

Oh, please, spare us your concern. I don't like the records, that's it.

Wait, so who did you end up voting for, J0hn.

xp Cunga: I think this is the most redeeming post on this thread ... would they be playing themselves or non-celebrities with elements of their personalities/personas?

Episode: I Had a Bad Dream Joe (the parents advisory episode)

Nick's wife goes away for a girls' week-long vacation at the beach, leaving Nick home with the kids. Before leaving, Nick's wife makes him promise that he will spend quality time with the kids, instead of holing up in his home studio and writing music. But old habits die hard. After working into the wee hours on a concept album about Old Testament tyrants, he wakes up to find the kids missing. He walks into the backyard to find that Michael has built this towering treehouse and is dangling Nick's youngest over the balcony. Nick clambers up the tree, and instead of pulling the child down, he throws the child off the balcony, where it falls to its death, skull split open. In a fit of panic, to hide his guilt, he throws his other child off the balcony of the treehouse. Then, as he is stuggling with Michael to toss him off, too, he wakes up. Michael is shaking him awake because they have tickets to the amusement park and they are running late.

Episode: Home Truths

Michael Jackson fiddles kids and Nick Cave isn't all that. Guest stars: Prince (pwns) Morrissey (sucks)

Damn, it just occured to me that I should have voted for Michael Jackson, because Michael Jakson glued up a person a plaster

would they be playing themselves or non-celebrities with elements of their personalities/personas?

Heightened versions of themselves, and I lol'd at the dream sequence you did.

Wait, so who did you end up voting for, J0hn

I don't remember :(

Good god, John. You certainly seem to be sitting on the fence now, despite your first post here.

Of course Michael will win this one, more folks know him. I knew Prince would win the other poll against Morrissey, as well. No big surprises here. As far as Nick goes, though, I agree his stuff is quite boring lately. But The Birthday Party were challenging the status quo and being more weird & arty than MJ could possibly ever be even if he wanted to, and as a child of punk/post-punk in my listening habits, I'm bound to give the goods to the one who "ripped things up and started again" (i.e. attempting something new and different) so to speak. But I'm lying if I say I enjoy BP more than some of Nick's solo stuff. Oh, no way. Sure, you hate Boatman's Call, John, fine (prob my all time fave album of his) but look at Tender Prey for instance. I mean isn't that pretty much the all-time best diverse statement of what he was capable of in his prime? "Let Love In" is another fantastic and diverse album. I'm thankful to Matt for saying "Henry's Dream" cause I need to re-experience that one again.

So yeah, Michael in his prime was mostly a pleaser of the masses (hey I'm totally down with most of Off The Wall and even a track or two off Thriller) but I like artists who plumb the depths, do something different, follow a different muse than the crowd. Nick has been out of ideas for years, I think, but that doesn't discount the value of the unique contribution he made to music.

Of course Michael will win this one, more folks know him.

uh, that's crap, to be fair. maybe yeah out of 6 billion worldwide. in terms of ILX i'm pretty sure everyone would have heard of nick cave.

man i guess i'm not getting this prevailing opinion that nick is boring now...i fucking LOVE abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus and grinderman was pretty awesome too

Agreed, Grinderman was more fun than he's been for ages.

Of course Michael will win this one, more folks know him.

Knee-jerk but heartfelt response: Of course Michael will win this one, more folks are stupid.

So yeah, Michael in his prime was mostly a pleaser of the masses (hey I'm totally down with most of Off The Wall and even a track or two off Thriller) but I like artists who plumb the depths, do something different, follow a different muse than the crowd.

Besides being batshit, this is totally RONG. Artists trying to please the masses (whatever that means) are responsible for some of the great work of the last 40 years; and how the hell do you gauge an artist "plumbing the depths" -- do you have some sensor that allows you to know whether they're excavating into Nick Cave levels of artistic integrity?

http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/McGrawHill/boating/f0146-01.png

Knee-jerk but heartfelt response: Of course Michael will win this one, more folks are stupid.

― Alex in NYC, Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:00 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

Haha! I love you, man! Thanks for saying what I dared not say, and refuse to lay claim to.

Besides being batshit, this is totally RONG. and how the hell do you gauge an artist "plumbing the depths" -- do you have some sensor that allows you to know whether they're excavating into Nick Cave levels of artistic integrity?

Artists trying to please the masses (whatever that means) are responsible for some of the great work of the last 40 years;

Ha! Dude it may shock you but there are some geniuses in this world (and I'm not even referring to Nick Cave as such) who have been blessed with such unique artistic gifts, that like maybe only 200 people "get it" and buy their CD's right now or accept their theories right now. In 50 years, these folks may be recognized for their contributions, but unfortunately right now, they have to deal with people like you who don't get it. These artists, scientists, scholars, whatever they are, are absolutely on FIRE with their creative gifts, their art, their contribution to humanity. They're reaching out for NEW THINGS, BEYOND what has come before. AGAINST THE PREVAILING STYLE. Get it? SOMETHING DIFFERENT. UNTRIED. NEW. EVOLUTION. CREATIVITY. TRY TO GET ON BOARD. Have you ever met any of these people? Would you know them if you saw them? I doubt you would even recognize them in your midst.

Michael Jackson is a talented individual, no single doubt about it, but he has never, ever, musically challenged the status quo, and he is not as unique as Nick Cave.

I'd say Michael Jackson is more unique than Nick Cave, but not in a good way.

Serious answer: Nick Cave. More varied music. Less concerned with pandering to the lowest common denominator. More things to say and more interesting ways to say them. Give me "The Curse of Millhaven" or "City of Refuge" or "Tupelo" over anything off the slavishly overrated Off the Wall any dayEVERY DAY of the week.

Ha! Dude it may shock you but there are some geniuses in this world (and I'm not even referring to Nick Cave as such) who have been blessed with such unique artistic gifts, that like maybe only 200 people "get it" and buy their CD's right now or accept their theories right now.

Really?

They're reaching out for NEW THINGS, BEYOND what has come before. AGAINST THE PREVAILING STYLE. Get it? SOMETHING DIFFERENT. UNTRIED. NEW. EVOLUTION. CREATIVITY. TRY TO GET ON BOARD. Have you ever met any of these people? Would you know them if you saw them? I doubt you would even recognize them in your midst.

"Billie Jean" sounded like nothing I'd ever heard: lyrically, musically, vocally.

If you really want something different, use less capital letters next time.

As for Nick Cave, I prefer Gothic corn in literature, not in music, but he's written a couple of good tunes.

I prefer Gothic corn in literature, not in music

^^^^^

this.

Not that I know firsthand if that's accurate about Nick Cave. I can't really be enticed into listening to his stuff.

this is a stupid poll but nick cave defenders are really scraping the bottom of the barrell with their arguments here. were like ten posts away from 'nick cave is better cuz he uses real instruments man'

Well, he does.

Again, this thread was merely meant to lampoon another thread (specifically the Morrissey vs. Prince thread). Much like that comparison, there really aren't any common threads between MJ and...er... NC. It's not meant to be taken so dead seriously. Nick Cave and Michael Jackson are very different artists who make very different music from each other, generally tailored to very different demographics. It's a pointless comparison.

... but Nick is still better.

... and never molested anyone.

... that we know of, at least.

lol i spelled barrel wrong

That's the least of this thread's problems.

Of the Michael Jackson proponents, how many like the majority of his musical output, and how many like a few songs or albums including the band he was in as a kid and dislike Nick Cave? It seems like there are folks saying MJ is great, and others saying MJ had some good songs, which is more than Nick Cave had.

xp Max: Would it be scraping further down to say "I vote for Nick Cave because he is better looking"?

at this point i think anything goes

I do wonder what a Michael Jackson-Mick Harvey collab would sound like.

It'd certainly sound different.

"including the band he was in as a kid"

nick cave >>> michael jackson

BUT

jackson 5 >> boys next door

LOL one thing I do like about this thread is the concept of "Gothic corn" which I don't think I will stop chuckling about for awhile, here.

http://www.moplants.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/indian%20corn.JPG

spot the goth!

Thriller & The Birthday Party cancel each other out with true greatness.

Jackson 5 definitely deserve some major props... far more than Boys Next Door (who I like plenty).

Latter ear Jackson and Cave do little for me, but there's no doubt that Cave has maintained sanity and relevancy over time.

But when you really get down to it, only one of these two can sing.

I can't even vote on this.

And by "latter ear" I of course meant "latter era". As far as I know, MJ's ears are the only original part of him remaining.

You were probably thinking about an ear of corn. In fact, according to this website, the term "comes from the Gothic word for 'husk of corn' which was ahs".

xp ian: the goth corn is the one on the far right, right next to the reggae corn.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

This poll is closing tomorrow.

Oy. Thank God!

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Yawn.

Thank goodness.

Pathetic.

according to the lovers of polls, this settles the question

The question being: Are ILM poll-takers tasteless morons? The answer: Most certainly.

We tasteless morons also like to dance.

(I'm particularly impatient with Nick Cave after watching his performance in the Leonard Cohen "I'm Your Man" thing: he needed a wet mop in his face)

the fact that this wasn't 5 to 1 sorta disappoints me.

I imagine if mj didn't have 'character issues' people realllly wouldn't have any excuse

i kinda want to do a jackson vs killing joke now, just to see AINYC's reaction to the results.

you have teh big balls if you do.

i'm not gonna lie to you, i have trouble sitting

Hooray!

how different would this exercise be if Quincy Jones had produced Nick Cave?

And Blixa Bargeld had played guitar for Jacko?

Considering the artist's respective sales, I reckon the Goth vote held up pretty well.

Preferred Cave well before MJ's 'character issues' started to show, don't need an excuse. Up for Cave's Quincy Jackson album though. Blixa/MJ, not so much.

They played this one at the goth club some weeks back and I was like "man, these people know how to choose a particularly stellar all-time-best Nick Cave song". You folks who like Tom Waits, I want you to look me in the eye and tell me why you don't like this.

So when is there going to be a Crime and The City Solution vs. Nick Cave poll?

Aww...actually I don't know if I even owned a Crime & The City Solution record. I did own one of those ex-Bad Seeds records, but I don't think it was them.

Is Alex in NYC 14?

I don't like Crime and the City Solution as much as Bad Seeds, but These Immortal Souls are on-par.

Is Alex in NYC 14?

Reverse the digits.

Michael Jackson sucks and, therefore, you suck for liking him.

I wasn't wrong.

what would be more enjoyable? Cave covering 'Jam' or Jackson covering 'No Pussy Blues'?

― Hard House SugBanton (blueski), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 15:12 (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

cave has eaten jam, at least

― Old Big 'OOS (AKA the Cupwinner) (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 15:13 (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you would just like to point out that you have been otm in this thread