Lou Reed: The Blue Mask

discuss. title track is the most devastating, raging piece of music ever recorded by the man. also, the band is perhaps the best he ever played with during this particular recording. my opinions.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410Kqe-9BaL._SS400_.jpg

best lou album ever?

woops

I listened to this album last night, yeah. Or I mean...this morning. I get confused sometimes. I bought it many years ago simply because I'd heard the title track on the radio and went completely entirely nuts over it. I've said it before on this board, but what I have is a cassette of an interview he did about that song and how he interpreted the lyrics. He said he thought it was the best thing he'd ever done, lyrically.

So anyway, back in the day, I'd bought this album on the strength of that song. And it disappointed me, at the time. But I think it's okay now. I enjoyed it. A little bit too concentrated on trying to carry things with lyrics and poetry, but I did enjoy it. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got VU bootlegs to listen to...

i like Waves of Fear more than the Blue Mask.

I said my peace about the album here. At times too studied and often awkward, it's still leagues better than his seventies work.

I've said it before on this board, but what I have is a cassette of an interview he did about that song and how he interpreted the lyrics. He said he thought it was the best thing he'd ever done, lyrically.

i'm really curious to know if this is online anywhere or if there is a transcription or something because I would love to read it

i think maybe wfmu's blog posted this interview thing? i think i have it somewhere ...

Definitely the best Lou Reed album, by a wide margin. And while there definitely is some awkwardness, and at times it's flat-out goofy (e.g. the Syl-vi-a chorus of Heavenly Arms) it's still an incredibly great record, one of the 80s best.

Far and away my favorite solo album of his. The guitar interplay is a thing of beauty, too.

Fernando Saunders is probably my favorite part of the whole thing

"Sylvie and I got out our Ouiji board..."

you know what lou calls Fernando Saunders' bass playing? "Fernandizing."

i actually kinda admire this and the subsequent records' goofy qualities. i mean, his newfound domesticity and *gasp* love of life came as quite a relief to many a long-time fan when the thing was first released in '82--you know, after Lou had spent nearly a decade grappling with self-defeating nihilism (and with his own head largely up his own ass). also, unlike GUIP, it was actually good--with some fierce (and lovely) guitar playing even. who could ask for more?

and he makes domesticity sound scarier than transvestites, dope pushers, and overdoses.

well, yeah.. also, his dalliance with the bottle wasn't a very good idea either (and it made him look square to hipsters, natch--"how could you, Lou? i shot up to your song and you're drinkin' bud???").

well, it inspired one of my favorite couplets: "Things are seldom good, they go from bad to weird/Hey, gimme another scotch with my beer."

wait, Blue Mask is a "love of life" album??? I could see New Sensations or Coney Island Baby but I've always heard this one as being pretty dark. kind of like the clearheaded sense of self that occurs just after the depression phase of the hangover subisdes...

Actually it comes across as one of his more life-affirming, optimistic albums, IMO.

oh yeah, it gave him an excuse to write another batch of great songs, sure. but career wise, it was damn near suicidal (how many times did i have to hear people exclaim: “I liked him much better when he was all fucked up on drugs, man.”?).

xxp

tru dat. also, Lou is obviously 'in character' on the title track, duh.

meanwhile Legendary Hearts remains out of print.

not to me (heh).

I dunno about this album

it's really Lou's band at their jazziest; with maybe his greatest rhythm section ever: Fernando + Doane Perry on drums! (wonder what ever happened to him?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doane_Perry

good grief, he joined Jethro Tull in 1984!!??

Average Guy is a funny song - the sound of this is hard for me to get over. All the fretless bass and way-too-crisp guitars, the gated drums, etc. Sonically it doesn't appeal to me.

well, it was the '80s, you know. sign o' the times.

hmm, i wonder if Lou had taken a liking to Chic's early-'80s records?

Lou Reed is one of those artists whose sheer prolificness and contrarianism defies all of my attempts at digestion of his catalog, even with the benefit of internet cliffs' notes devices.

I do know that I pretty much always skip over songs from this album when they come up on random iTunes function, whereas "Bottoming Out" from Legendary Hearts rarely gets a pass from me.

i'm really curious to know if this is online anywhere or if there is a transcription or something because I would love to read it

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/11/lou_reed_minus_.html

"Betrayed"! "Home of the Brave"! "Don't Talk To Me About Work"! That album has so many great tunes.

"The Last Shot"!

career wise, it was damn near suicidal

Yes, especially after those multi-million sellers The Bells and Growing Up in Public.

haha--those were transitional records tho. come to think of it, were any of his Arista albums decent sellers?

No, but each eighties album outsold its predecessor until New York (which actually went gold!).

plus, I've read that, thanks to the publishing and songwriting royalties which finally started to trickle in, Lou did rather well in the eighties.

Blue Mask is the best of the Quine/Saunders/Maher albums by a vast margin, and one of my fave Lou solo albums. In fact, I'm a little surprised Quine hasn't gotten more dap in this thread for his contributions. I seem to remember reading in some magazine at the time that they had to send Quine home in a cab after he recorded his bit for "Waves of Fear," and I can totally believe that.

Oh, maybe Maher wasn't on that one. Well, Quine/Saunders then.

Don't like fretless bass, so that tends to mar this and other albums

Lou did rather well in the eighties

The motor scoooter commercial probably helped too. "Hey. Don't settle for walkin' "

I seem to remember reading in some magazine at the time that they had to send Quine home in a cab after he recorded his bit for "Waves of Fear," and I can totally believe that.

this is awesome.

I've never understood unconditionally disliking fretless bass. There are so many different tones and styles of playing out there. Yes, you have your typical cheesy jazz fusion, but you also have very simple lines like on PIL's "Rise." Fernando's tone and style is quite unique and funky and pleasing to me.

Have you guys seen the Lou Reed Live in New York DVD from 1983? Great stuff! Quine has a cig hanging from his mouth the whole time, and Fernando's in leather pants.

From a PSF interview with Quine (the whole thing is here):

"PSF: After that, what would you say about the time you played with Lou Reed?

Musically, the first week and a half was really great, out of the four years. We did The Blue Mask. It's a record that I'm really proud of. There was no rehearsing, no overdubs, no punch-in's for mistakes. The exact opposite of the Voidoids. I inspired and encouraged him to play guitar again. I didn't have a lot of fun with him but at least it's out there and I'm proud of that. With that record, Fernando Saunders and Doane Perry were taken aback by this primitive playing. There was an intensity there and we reacted to each other as musicians. It isn't a jazz record but there's that kind of sensitivity. He listened to some wild ideas I brought in like with 'Waves of Fear'- he had nothing to lose at that point as he'd just done Growing Up In Public.

It's just a shame- I'd still be with him now and put up with whatever personal problems I had with him. But he's not a nice guy. In one way, he respected me. If he yelled at me, I'd yell back. I'm outspoken and don't take crap from people. His problem is that he likes to be surrounded by 'yes' men that flatter him but he's smart enough to know what's going on and he hates them for it and he ends up with a lot of hack musicians.

The Blue Mask was a very big critical success but it didn't sell well. It built up his confidence though. By the time we did Legendary Hearts in late '82, he was much more of a control freak. He was rejecting ideas that I brought in. He was feeling pretty precious about his career. His biggest weakness is that he wants to be regarded as a poet. The more conscious he is of this, the worse songs he writes. It could have been a pretty good record. It wasn't going to be as good as the last one: the songs weren't as good. The atmosphere was really uptight- it's impossible to be friends with him. When I got the final mix, I was really freaked out. He pretty much mixed me off the record. I was in Ohio and took it out in the driveway and smashed the tape into pieces. I didn't talk to him for a month but he knew what he'd done. I have cassettes of the rough mix of the record and it was a really good record but he made it all muddy and murky.

He approached me about playing live and I said 'what the hell.' It was a pretty good band- Fred Maher was there. Lou was very erratic with his rhythm playing but I dug that. It was impossible for the drummer to follow it. Me and Fred had to play around him. Fernando was great but I prefer a Duck Dunn-type player who can hold down the bottom. If Fernando doesn't dig a drummer, he wouldn't play with him- he didn't dig Fred. He's a great player when he plays with someone he likes. We did some more touring. He just happened to record bad concerts like Live In Italy. The band was sensitive enough that we were capable of improvising, like on 'Sister Ray' and 'Heroin' which we only did once. He had to teach it to the others but I knew it already.

But there was more and more of a strain between us. About a day before New Sensations was going to be recorded, he fired me and did the guitar himself. I did do the tour with him afterwards- that was a long tour. I came to him and said 'forget whatever happened, I just want to play with you.' By this time, we had an awful band. The new drummer would only play well in rehearsals and the keyboard player (Peter Woods) worked with Al Stewart and Cyndi Lauper. There wasn't much room to improvise. At the end of 'Kill Your Sons,' I'd do a drone and Lou would do a guitar solo- we'd get pretty far out there. This keyboard player thought it was joke and play with his feet- Lou would have to come over and tell him to stop. Because I wasn't on New Sensations, I didn't have a lot to add live. I'd be doing a song, playing D and G for six minutes like 'Doing the Things that We Want To,' which I didn't really like, with no variation and the keyboard guy playing accordian. I thought, 'this is not why I got a guitar and wanted to play in a rock and roll band.' We hated each other's guts, me and the keyboard player. Lou got really abusive at the end- he'd hog all the guitar solos and made sure I got mixed out- even live. I got back from the tour and decided that was it. I assumed he knew it. He'd put me down to the rest of the band, knowing that they'd tell me about it later.

From the greedy professional angle, I've had three things that have made people interested in who I am. The Voidoids things, the Lou Reed thing and Matthew Sweet. On a personal level, Reed was a guy who really influenced me and I had a chance to give something back to him. Encouraging him to play guitar again was digging my own grave. But I would have done it again because I owed it to him. This guy changed my life. If I did something to put him back in the right direction... I wish that it would have gone on with the level of something like The Blue Mask. Everything else after is pretty lousy. He never found anyone else to replace me except the Velvet Underground and he had to ruin that. I hate him because if I had my way, we'd still be playing. It was good steady work. He didn't tour often. I hate his guts because he made it impossible to play with him. There was nothing in it for me. He was not going to give me any space for any creativity."

At the end of 'Kill Your Sons,' I'd do a drone and Lou would do a guitar solo- we'd get pretty far out there. This keyboard player thought it was joke and play with his feet

Yikes

off-topic - why is Sally Can't Dance Reed's biggest seller? There are no hits on it and apart from the last trio of songs it sounds fucking horrible.

I think Lou has asked himself the same question on many occasions

It's not his biggest seller – it's his highest charting album. His two biggest sellers are Rock and Roll Animal and New York.

and SCD peaked so high on the goodwill and sales built on Transformer and RARA.

It sold on the back of "Rock and Roll Animal", didn't it?

(xp)

I heard Transformer sold quite well too...

xpost me and my slow typing...

... in the UK it did, don't know how well it sold in the US. Also "Berlin" was in between it and "RnR Animal", and that bombed in the US (but did quite well in the UK)

NEW YORK???? Oh I hate that record! This one rules, tho. His goofy domestic stuff was cute and Waves of Fear is PERFECT. That shuddering but unresolving guitar/voice figure catches alcoholic wakeups way too well. What I don't get is how Lou doesn't realise he plays guitar better with SOMEONE ELSE. It doesn't make him look bad; it makes him play and sound a million times better.

Legendary Hearts is cute, not all that great. Mostly cos of ABOVE prob.

Eh. New Sensations had some of his best guitar playing, and he recorded alone.

LH is cute?!? It's even darker than TBM.

No it's not, it's got Rooftop Garden on it!

And I don't recall his guitar. I do recall Quine was on it but got mixed off.

Martial Law is, errrrrrrrrr, somewhat less dark than The Gun... for instance

But then you have the title track, "Betrayed," "Home of the Brave," "Bottoming Out."

Quine wasn't mixed off – he was mixed down. You can plainly hear his kind of solo on "Bottoming Out" and "Make Up."

from "LH":

Romeo, oh Romeo

Wherefore art thou Romeo?

He's in a car or at a bar

Or churning his blood with an impure drug

He's in the past and seems to be lost forever

yup still pretty much the best album ever

i'll put a hole in your face if you even breathe a word
tell the lady to lie down, i want you to be sure to see this, i wouldnt you miss a SA-cund
watch your wife
carrying a gun, shooting with a gun
dirty animal

going out on a limb here BUT:

Side A is the best side of any Lou solo album.

love this album.. quine's guitar solo on 'women' givs me chills

We could have used some of this enthusiasm for the 80s poll a couple weeks back. It didn't even make the top 100.

the gtr playing is awesome on this album but the songwriting is too earnest/obvious. it's like lou made his big comeback as a musician (yay!) at the same time that he kinda jumped the shark in terms of lyric writing. on the whole I prefer his trashy inconsistent 70s >>>>>> his "mature" work in the 80s and beyond. I mean lyrics like these are sheer genius:

She was the first girl in the neighbourhood
To wear tied-dyed pants, ah, like she should
She was the first girl that I ever seen
That had flowers painted on her jeans
She was the first girl in her neighbourhood
that got raped on Tompkins Square real good
Now she wears a sword, like Napoleon
And she kills the boys and acts like a son
Sally can't dance no more, Sally can't dance no more
She can't get herself off the floor, Sally, she can't dance no more
Sally became a big model, she moved up to eighties and park
She had a studio appartment and that's where she used to ball
folk singers, and that's where she used to ball folk singers
Sally can't dance no more, Sally can't get off of the floor

especially when compared to banality like "I love my motorcycle and my wife" etc etc

Lots of great lyrics on "The Blue Mask", some silly ones too, but it is Lou Reed after all

New Sensations > The Blue Mask

m. coleman basically on the money but I'll rep for Legendary Hearts as the last good one, the last hurrah, where the mature motorcycle man songwriting was, um, firing on all cylinders, hadn't yet crystallized into schtick and the Fernando Saunders whale sounds didn't overshadow the guitar playing.

never been able to get into this record. imho the best thing about it is the cover

New Sensations > The Blue Mask

I just checked, this opinion is still 100% batty

Heard it was originally supposed to be called Lou Sensations.

(You guys should listen to that NYPL VU interview, btw)

I love Lou, I think he's great

(You guys should listen to that NYPL VU interview, btw)

Downloading it

revisited this the other day - still lol'ing at Average Guy (my temperature is NINETY-EIGHT point TWO)

m coleman is one of my favorite ILM posters -- I look forward to them! -- but he's wrong about Reed's lyrics. "Our House" is a terrific piece of sustained writing, on every level (including musical).

I'm kinda of two minds about that one - its SO direct and literal, there's something kinda clumsy about it

But then the music churns and weaves itself around the verses and Lou's voice. My god, the intro -- how the guitars and bass create a very quiet ruckus, then settle....I can write reams about it.

I'm going to make one point abundantly clear: I cannot think of any belief system that can support the New Sensations > Blue Mask paradox. I'm just glad he didn't type Mistrial > Blue Mask, as that may have caused disruptions in the fabric of reality.

Wait a minute...

...Ooops.

I've listened to NS far more often and enjoy its pop knockoffs (the enjoyment of which taught me that Lou's jokes are more serious than his mature stuff). The production's awful though.

i've got a Japanese version of NS from a few years ago and it sounds a helluva lot better than the original release. the production still bugs me a little but not nearly as much as it did

revisited this the other day - still lol'ing at Average Guy (my temperature is NINETY-EIGHT point TWO)

my favorite thing about average guy, and maybe my favorite single thing Lou did in the 80s, is when, at the point where the singer's supposed to go "hey!" or "yeah!" he yells "average!"

what the fuck is this song about? I do not get these lyrics at all, really

The heroine stood up on the deck
the ship was out of control
the bow was being ripped to shreds
men were fighting down below
The sea had pummeled the boat for so long
that they knew nothing but fear

And the baby's in his box
he thinks the door is locked
the sea is in a state
the baby learns to wait for the heroine
Ohh, ohh, for the heroine
locked in his defense, he waits for the heroine

The mast is cracking as he waves are slapping
sailors roll across the deck
and when they thought no one was looking
they would cut a weaker man's neck
While the heroine dressed in a virgin white dress
tried to steer the mighty ship
But the raging storm wouldn't hear of it
they were in for a long trip

Baby's in the box
he thinks the door is locked
he finds it hard to breathe
drawing in the sea
And where's the heroine to fire off the gun
to calm the raging seas
and let herself be seized, by the -

- Baby in the box
he thinks the door is locked
the woman has the keys
but there is no moment she can seize
Here's to the heroine
who transcends all the men
Who are locked inside the box
will the lady let them out
Ohh, the heroine, ooohh, ooohhh, the heroine
Strapped to the mast, the pale ascendant heroine
strapped to the mast, the pale ascendant heroine

no idea.
yo la tengo and will oldham covered "heavenly arms" from this album a couple weeks ago. it wasn't very good, but they get points for trying.

i think this one is overrated, 3-4 really good songs tho

i finally found this at my record store yesterday! total classic imo, if only for the quines guitar playing (esp. at the end of Women), waves of fear, and heavenly arms

xxp el perro del mar does a really great cover of heavenly arms

First forty seconds of "My House" = glorious.

oooo and the drum fills towards the end of 'my house' !! really fits with quine's offtime-ish riffing and packs a punch

esp. at the end of Women
i might be wrong, but i think this is actually lou on lead.

ahh yeah, youre right. quine in the left channel, lou in the right

yeah, i think the only reason i know that is cuz lou takes the solo on the "night w/ lou reed" video (which is essnetial if you dig this album btw).
it is a great solo, though, kinda redeems the song imo.

Thirty years old today!

I remember where I was that day, I was upstate in a bar

you and your friend got out a ouija board

I think I was watching the team from the university play football on tv.

im listening to this for the first time. so so good. quine's guitar on "waves of fear" is amazing.

The "tuning up" intro on "My House" is worth the price of the album.

I love "Women" and "Gun" and "Underneath the Bottle"

a special album for me because it was the first one to be released by Lou Reed after I became a fan. I had gone completely ape, buying or begging anything I could get my hands on for over a year - bootlegs, used anything, some forgotten English magazine that came with a cassette featuring an interview with him (he got mad at the interviewer and told him "I am not here to loon around," which lodged itself in my brain forever). I wasn't 100% sure what to make of it at first but "Waves of Fear" just knocked me over and when I was 15 I got drunk and listened to "My House" and that outro just washed over me and I then had a night-long argument with friends who didn't think "My House" was great.

still the best of the post-70s albums imo.

holy shit @ all of this

http://www.hideoutchicago.com/event/633787-robbie-fulks-chicago/

Mondays With Robbie
Robbie Fulks
R.I.P. Lou Reed - Blue Mask LP performed with loud band, featuring Michael Shannon as Lou Reed*
Mon, July 21, 2014
Doors: 6:00 pm / Show: 7:00 pm
The Hideout
Chicago, IL
$10.00

Wow

so weird, but sounds like it could be totally fun. is shannon going to be "playing" lou reed?

One would hope so

yeah he's gonna be the singer, fulks is only playing guitar

i guess Shannon has a band!

http://corporalband.com/

man I would totally go to this

yeah he's gonna be the singer, fulks is only playing guitar

A+, according to Harry Pussy
https://harrypussy.bandcamp.com/track/robert-ranks-reed-alphabetically

Think there are several videos of that Michael Shannon gig out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjYS585jwm4

Ha, my guitar teacher (along with Narducy et al.) backed him doing something similar with the Smiths a couple of years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oFEkHYNe_k

Here's Shannon giving his tribute all to Bowie and Iggy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ88oSMRo_4

I think he skipped some awards show to do this instead.

Sylvia! Sylvia!

You guys know that story about Sylvia, Ivan Julian and Bo Diddley?

At Max’s Kansas City.

Can’t find the original story though, only me posting about it here/pvmic

You guys know that story about Sylvia, Ivan Julian and Bo Diddley?

― No Particular Place to POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs)

who topped?

Heh, close. Ivan and Sylvia went to see Bo and when they met him Bo thought Sylvia was Ivan’s girlfriend and tried to make some sort of deal with him.

Sylvia is supposed to be writing a memoir of some kind, which should be interesting ...

That'll make two ex-wives with books! Sylvia was interviewed extensively in the DeCurtis biography, there was a lot of interesting stuff about how he basically installed her as his manager and then wondered why the record company wasn't giving him the support he felt he deserved.

As for The Blue Mask, it started the Professor Lou phase of his career where he would put one good song on albums whose interest was maybe more conceptual than musical:

The Blue Mask: "The Gun"
Legendary Hearts: I actually like most of this
New Sensations: title track
Mistrial: "Tell It To Your Heart"
New York: "Dirty Blvd"
Songs for Drella: don't even like the Cale songs on this
Magic and Loss: title track
Set the Twilight Reeling: "Adventurer"
Ecstasy: wow, maybe four good songs!
The Raven: "Call On Me" is the only good song, but some of the recitations are funny
Lulu: about half of this is good

He wanted to make records that were taken as seriously as novels, but I want albums that I can play dozens of more times than I would ever want to reread a book.

Strongly disagree about New Sensations and STTR.

Strongly disagree overall

xp Not liking blue mask, New York, and Drella is quite a Lou Reed challop!

Strongly disagree overall

Same here.

Also I didn't really like Drella all that much until I got a hold of the Ed Lachman film of their performance. For whatever reason, I found that to be more moving even though the audio itself wasn't really different.

I know these albums well, I could probably recite you lyrics from most of the songs on them. But for an enjoyable listening experience, I'd even prefer Sally Can't Dance or Rock 'n' Roll Heart.

Strongly disagree overall

OTM ... and not for the first time, some people just have very different tastes!

The Blue Mask: "The Gun"

This whole album is consistently great.

Legendary Hearts: I actually like most of this

Ditto, but it needs more Quine.

New Sensations: title track

It's hit-or-miss, but there's at least three other songs on it as good as the title track.

Mistrial: "Tell It To Your Heart"

This album is so awful that I forgot a not-awful song was on it. But I'm not hearing an overriding "concept" on it (unless the concept is "GET ME OUT OF MY RCA CONTRACT NOW").

New York: "Dirty Blvd"

There's a few songs as good as (or better than) "Dirty Blvd", but when I listened to it a few months ago (for the first time in maybe 30+ years), I'd forgotten how infuriatingly both-sidesy "Good Evening, Mr. Waldheim" was. Fuck that song.

yeah, "Waldheim" is the only really bad song on New York imo.

title track and “waves of fear” are incredible and inspiring. Fuck every other singer songwriter who ever lived, this is the real shit

wish I liked 80s lou more tbh, only thing I dig on NS is “high in the city”. “turn out the light” on LH is really cool, it captures that totally lou extremely laid back low pulse rate cool feeling I first got a hit of with “some kind love” back in high school

i like legendary hearts, which i only heard fairly recently, part of it is i think the low expectations based on the album cover

lou is one of those where i can tolerate the really bad stuff because i feel like he worked in such a way where if he wasn't prone to making such cringey stuff he would never be open to receiving the genius ones

This last is a fair point, although I feel like I have less tolerance for it than some. But I also think it is kind of an integral part of being a fan of his.

yeah the fact that lou generally delivers his great stuff with the same gusto that he does with his less great stuff has something to do with it.

I remember this Mojo interview with Lou where he was in quite a mood and the interviewer asked something about how he knows songs are good, a jazz record (monk maybe, something real classic) was playing and he walked over and held out his forearm, which had goosebumps and said "look at that, when i feel like that no one can tell me that's wrong"

Legendary Hearts is the come down from Blue Mask, and is otherwise cool cuz it's the only Reed/Quine/Saunders/Maher record except for Live in Italy…

I will quickly mention that in a 1996 Mojo interview, he mentioned that in NYC at the time, there was a Joe Meek renaissance and that he was amused with the amount of compression in the music and somewhat counterintuitively liked it…I was super proud in that that boomlet in town was due to a CD reissue that was my piece de resistance that I pitched and produced…that mean motherfucker who didn't like hardly anything liked something that was my idea!

XP I remember that interview! A pretty wild one w/Sylvie Simmons, IIRC. At another point he got so carried away talking about Ornette Coleman that he started crying. He was also eating a lunch of Chinese takeout during the discussion, and at one point, mid-rant, he went, "Owww" after burning his mouth on a hot prawn.

haha yeah it might have been ornette w/the goosebumps, i just remember it was a real "brand name" jazz legend type

At one point, his website had recordings of six or seven different takes of Ornette's solo on "Guilty", from The Raven (I guess a composite was used on the album), which he enthusiastically encouraged the website visitor to sample.

Is it time to bring up Terms of Endearment again?

When Lou passed, Spin asked Xgau for thots, and he even did some more listening, incl. to several recently discussed here; I need to check these again too, and finally get to the late live albums he also mentions:

...Reed was making albums about a less-than-tranquil domestic stability that signified metaphorically whatever its factual accuracy: The Blue Mask in 1982 and Legendary Hearts in 1983, both featuring the doomed guitarist Robert Quine, and also I thought New Sensations in 1984, after Reed canned Quine while sticking to the concept. Listening back to that one now, though, I miss Quine...

After playing and probably being an apolitical cynic all his career, he debuted on Sire in 1989 with an album entitled New York that won praise for its social consciousness by copping to liberal shibboleths that wouldn't have sounded out-of-place from Ed Koch on a campaign stop in the Bronx, and that put its truisms across with a rock more VU-like in its toughness than any of the many variants he'd been tossing his fans for years. In 1996 came Set the Twilight Reeling, functionally his love album to the companion of his last two decades, the performance artist Laurie Anderson--which is not to claim a single lyric addressed or reflected any detail of their life together, only that the mood of the thing seemed congruent with the impressions of we who didn't know them. And in 2000, when he was 59, came his last full-fledged solo album, Ecstasy, which I've been playing since I heard Reed was failing on Friday. If his solo career produced a masterwork on the scale of whatever VU album you prefer, this de facto farewell is it. Companionable and perverse, enraptured and enraged, brought to the finish line by an 18-minute guitar freakout as world-historical as "Sister Ray," it reconfigures the passions, resentments, affections, and misfiring neurons that have always driven him to fuse the lyrical and the abrasive, the spiritual and the sarcastic.

There are a bunch of other records, of course--post-Ecstasy, a Poe collab that probably got too much mazel tov and a Metallica collab that probably didn't get enough. But if you want a sense of how he proceeded into that dark night, two of his many live albums are worth a listen: 1998's Perfect Night and 2004's Animal Serenade. In both he's wisecracking and enjoying his guitar and palpably proud that he's written a shitload of songs people want to hear. What he was like offstage those nights I don't know and don't care. What I do know is that the world is poorer because there'll be no more of them.
from https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/music/reed-13.php

(Wasn't there a 2-disc, maybe import, ed. of the Poe? Would like to hear.)

His original takes on those, and a lot more, o course, are here: https://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=Lou+Reed (I'd give The Bells an A.)

The 2CD version of The Raven was released domestically. I reviewed it at the time:

Lou Reed's career is a mystery on at least two levels. The first, of course, is the series of artistic tangents and blind alleys he's caromed down at one point or another since his emergence with the Velvet Underground in the 1960s. In a more meta sense, though, the larger mystery is that he still has a career at all, at least on a major record label. He's never been anything like a sure, or even safe, commercial bet. RCA sponsored Reed through the 1970s, a decade in which he released one successful album (Transformer), two good ones (Berlin and the live Rock 'n' Roll Animal), and a string of records that ranged from the merely competent (Coney Island Baby) to the calculatedly offensive. The latter group included the song "I Wanna Be Black," the infamous noisefest Metal Machine Music and another live recording, Take No Prisoners, on which he spent as much time berating his critics as playing his music. Only near the end of his tenure with the label did Reed release anything which even approached the level of his Velvet Underground work: a pair of back-to-back albums, The Blue Mask and Legendary Hearts, which found him fronting a tasteful but still rocking band and writing some of the best lyrics of his career.

Since the late 1980s, Reed has been on another major label, Warners, shuttling around between a few of its divisions (Sire, Reprise). Virtually every record he's made for them has been in some respect autumnal and more than a little cranky. This has led him down some side roads, of course; one was New York, an exploration of metropolitan entropy regarded by some as his greatest solo album, despite its now-dated topical lyrics. But for the most part, his former preoccupation with the race toward self-destruction has been replaced with a fixation on death, both as it claims others and as it closes in on him. This was the basis for his reunion with Velvet Underground partner John Cale on the Andy Warhol eulogy album Songs For Drella, and his 1992 album Magic and Loss. On his latest record, The Raven, Reed has combined his obsessions with self-destruction and inevitable death into an album which attempts to link his own songs with the writing of Edgar Allan Poe. It's not a seamless fit and, unsurprisingly, Reed comes out looking the worse for the inevitable comparison. His command of language is simply nowhere near the equal of Poe's. Even at his artistic peak in the 1970s, Reed always cultivated a plain-spokenness which has by now devolved into mere grumbling. He seems to feel that listing the decadent effects of time on the body and mind is enough; whatever insights he may have gained from his decrepitude are largely withheld from the listener. And the song "Edgar Allan Poe," which consists of a single, monotonous guitar riff and the repeated chant "This is the story of Edgar Allan Poe/Not exactly the boy next door," is simply an embarrassment. By contrast, the readings from Poe — by actors Steve Buscemi and Willem Dafoe, among others, and accompanied by Reed's music — are terrific, and would have made a great album all by themselves.

Not every song here is a failure. "Blind Rage," which appears early on Disc Two, is a noisy guitar-rock track. "Broadway Song," which opens the same disc, is utterly bizarre: sung by Steve Buscemi, it's a tribute to showbiz done in a lounge arrangement complete with cheesy horns. "Guilty" features the saxophonist Ornette Coleman, which would make it by default the best song on the record even if it was boring or uninspired — and it's not. Ornette's playing is brilliant, especially when he accompanies Reed's croaking vocals, creating a melody the singer can only approximate and dancing around him with endless, inspired variations on it.

The Raven is an interesting idea. Lou Reed has had lots of interesting ideas over the years. Unfortunately, there have only been perhaps a half dozen occasions when the execution has lived up to the potential, and this isn't one of them. It's not a total loss; hardcore fans will certainly find a few gleaming nuggets amid the slurry. But it's nothing a neophyte needs to be concerned with, just one more tangent along the way to wherever Reed is going. And like so many of his previous records, it's totally, wilfully uncommercial.

Christgau got me into those '80s albums but his Lou Reed isn't mine.

https://thequietus.com/articles/13708-lou-reed-obituary

I remember hearing Xgau on a World Cafe preview/overview thing for Ecstasy where he brought up the reason he felt Reed had lasted as long as he had on major labels was that his albums weren't prohibitively expensive to make or promote, and that he had a large enough built-in audience willing to check-in on whatever he was doing; even if they didn't necessarily show up on release day, they would show up eventually, so he did respectable catalogue business.

Of course, Ecstasy ended up being his last proper Major Label release.

One of the surprising things about the DeCurtis biography was learning how high Lou's commercial expectations were for his later career - airplay, gold records (he got both for New York), fancy record store set-ups. It didn't help that he was not necessarily going to enthusiastically join in the banal process of record promotion, or that he installed his wife Sylvia as his manager with no particular background.

Thanks for the new input; I thought this thread might have run its course for a while,as old threads usually do after a few days. Think all yall have seen this, but for people of the future, some good related discussions: Robert Quine

I just want to say “Coney Island Baby” sounds great when drinking wine with friends. Very laidback. Sounds like outtakes from earlier Lou Reed/VU compositions which is odd considering this album was made a year after “metal machine music”, it feels like something that came even before “transformer”.

I think it might be the last Lou Reed album I can play entirely without feeling like I want to change the mood entirely.

Btw I do like “metal machine music” but I find it too homogenic to be a true classic or at least to warrant any replay value. It’s one of those things that it’s more fun to analyze and talk about than to actually experience. I think I’ve only listened to it in its entirety two times in my life.

I rarely set out to listen to MMM. I have a CD copy and it's on the computer and walkman, and I often shuffle through my collection while listening. Whenever MMM happens to come on there is an instant "Argh, wtf!" followed immediately by a feeling of calm and I trip out on it. I like it and I there is a lot of depth in the sounds.

Does it have a reputation in the noise rock community? Is there a noise rock community? Maybe it's not noise "rock." Noise music? Anyways, somebody that can get off on My Bloody Valentine ought to be able to appreciate MMM.

If MMM was a vindictive "fuck you" to the record company, it also turned out to be really good.

Once Lou figured out what Lou Reed was supposed to be, I was done with him. Take No Prisoners is the last Lou that I really love, along with Street Hassle. I've never tried The Bells or Growing Up In Public. I'm a little afraid that they will make me reconsider Street Hassle in a negative light.

I tried Blue Mask and New York and most of what came after and none of it did much for me.

MMM feels like an art installation that earned notoriety due to the change in context. When you look at what was essentially a touring exhibit of Lou's guitars as well as the Lincoln Center's display of the same instruments, aurally it was apiece with MMM, and they didn't get any shit for any of that because it seemed perfectly reasonable. I'm sure if you walked into MoMA hearing the same thing in a room somewhere, you wouldn't blink.

I've grown to appreciate his '70s output a whole lot more even though it's wildly uneven, but The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts, New Sensations, New York, the film Songs for Drella and Ecstasy are my favorite works. I need to revisit the Berlin film...I recall some critics who thought it was better than the studio LP, but I've grown to love the studio LP, even if everyone I know knocks it for being too harrowing or depressing.

I wouldn't say the Berlin movie is better than the original record but it certainly succeeds far better then most "artist revisiting classic album in total" exercises

Sounds like outtakes from earlier Lou Reed/VU compositions

Yes, those Yule-inclusive outtakes were from the "original" Coney Island Baby sessions in January 1975, which were shut down when producer Steve Katz told RCA that the sessions were going nowhere. Then came Metal Machine Music in the summer, and a return to recording Coney Island Baby with a different producer in the fall.

I wouldn't say the Berlin movie is better than the original record but it certainly succeeds far better then most "artist revisiting classic album in total" exercises

That sounds more plausible. I can't think of a single live revisitation of an album that would somehow "replace" the original studio version. There are live albums that feel like definitive documents for a given band (The Allman Brothers' Fillmore album, probably the Grateful Dead's first live album), but they're not the track list of a previous album.

title track still the greatest song ever

one thing about my lou love is that I don’t feel defensive about haters. it’s ok, he’s not for you. hes for me and the other fuckups

but if you’re not a fuckup it’s ok to like lou

I like Lou, I think he's great
He's a solace to the world, he's my mate

Lou Reed - Full Concert - 09/25/84 - Capitol Theatre (OFFICIAL)
Just past the first hour (of 2:17)--they're not taking a break but I am. Mainly because ! can. because the urgency of the music just seems professional, though enjoyable enough: even the one-dimensional passages fit w the glinty tensile-not-tinsel, reliably wired, legibly schematic groove things(Circuit City, not Radio Shack--this is the 80s, Jack, and Jim). "Give it to me, Quine." He does, but seems mixed down a bit: vocals are not too loud. but more prominent than necessary, so I notice the words seem recited, and quotidian goes to mundane, but always enthusiastically, I'll give him that. Better when they slow down a bit for "Legendary Hearts," then faster than evah on "There She Goes Again," and then, holy moly, "Turn Out The Light" is like Lou meets Quine-era Material, also that era of hip-hop, kinda, tp "My Red Joy Stick," appropriately, and "Sally Can't Dance" fits with all this later stuff too. He sometimes kinda zings "the ineffable Quine, but only in passing, and so far almost deferentially (Quine is playing almost all the solos, so the mix, volume level, etc. adds to impressions of 1-D. but not too bad if you turn it up on headphones).
Good bass!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOoXjYppyMM

A very hearty, all-hands-on-deck (where I can see 'em) "Walk On The Wild Side," and ditto "Satellite of Love"; now I', wondering if the coda inspired "TVC15," or vice-versa. "I love you, Satellite!" Aw funk me for a "New Sensation"---"I aint no dawg tied to uh pahked cah"--not a pahked one, no bout adoubt it. He's mingling.

Also actually singing!

And soloing--guitar sound is now louder, for some reason

"Doin' The Things We Want To" good but 0 Quine---to Waves ov Fear--mixdown effective here: Q seems like flashback around ankles--but then it's over: v. short and kind of a joeky tempo, sheeit---but it's a set-up for "I Loves You Suzanne"--which is vigorous. and I liked it as a single, but not as much after a mostly thrown-away "Waves."
"White Light" works the 1-D pretty good, good keys. Quine's good when I can hear him on "Turn To Me," but don't watch this whole thing mainly for him, as I have, although it might be a little worse without him---not bad for a mid-80s Lou Reed show,, though---"Kill Yo Sons!"

(Okay, I admit the guitars plural are getting into some nasty buzzy barbwire crawling around finale of that one----so it goes.)

Yeah OK!
The Setlist Time Stamps
0:00:57-Sweet Jane
0:05:27-I'm Waiting For My Man
0:09:50-Martial Law
0:15:03-Down At The Arcade
0:19:26-Legendary Hearts
0:23:08-There She Goes Again
0:26:47-Turn Out the Light
0:32:18-My Red Joystick
0:37:57-Average Guy
0:41:21-Street Hassle
0:46:25-Sally Can't Dance
0:52:08-Walk On The Wild Side
0:58:27-Satellite Of Love
1:06:46-New Sensation
1:14:42-A Gift
1:18:19-Doin' The Things That We Want To
1:23:31-Waves Of Fear
1:26:43-I Love You Suzanne
1:30:44-White Light / White Heat
1:34:58-Turn To Me
1:41:23-Kill Your Sons
1:46:59-Coney Island Baby
2:10:24-Rock 'N' Roll

For whatever reason I haven’t felt compelled to pursue his work past 1980.

With the exception of Lulu

I think I’m just afraid of disappointment.

Maybe you need to "get a thrill from punishment" to appreciate this era properly.

It's all about thrills here, or aiming to be--incl."Glo-ry of Love--give-to-me-baby!" Also nice intro for the Chantels, who then sing the hell out of "Maybe," backed by Lou & band, one of several not on that setlist.

Lou Reed - Full Concert - 09/25/84 - Capitol Theatre (OFFICIAL)

They also have Run-DMC's opening set from that night up on the same YouTube channel...even with the audience noise mixed down, you can hear the rap-hating fans boo. Fuck those people, but it does warm my heart that quite a few commenters in the Reed link not only attended this show but recall how it introduced them to Run DMC, much to their appreciation.

Anyway, other comments in that Reed link are great - Fernando Saunders pops in and a five-year-old comment brings this up:

A good show, but I was disappointed in the mix. I couldn't understand why they buried Robert Quine's guitar, but then I found this interview he gave to Perfect Sound Forever in 1997: "About a day before 'New Sensations' was going to be recorded, he fired me and did the guitar himself. I did do the tour with him afterwards- that was a long tour. I came to him and said 'forget whatever happened, I just want to play with you.' By this time, we had an awful band. The new drummer would only play well in rehearsals and the keyboard player (Peter Woods) worked with Al Stewart and Cyndi Lauper. There wasn't much room to improvise. At the end of 'Kill Your Sons,' I'd do a drone and Lou would do a guitar solo- we'd get pretty far out there. This keyboard player thought it was joke and play with his feet- Lou would have to come over and tell him to stop. Because I wasn't on New Sensations, I didn't have a lot to add live. I'd be doing a song, playing D and G for six minutes like 'Doing the Things that We Want To,' which I didn't really like, with no variation and the keyboard guy playing accordian. I thought, 'this is not why I got a guitar and wanted to play in a rock and roll band.' We hated each other's guts, me and the keyboard player. Lou got really abusive at the end- he'd hog all the guitar solos and made sure I got mixed out- even live. I got back from the tour and decided that was it. I assumed he knew it. He'd put me down to the rest of the band, knowing that they'd tell me about it later."

The keyboardist is a pop guy, but okay in his way (also w that one-song-only accordion). Now they're backing Jim Carroll on "People Who Died."

I think I’m just afraid of disappointment.

The Blue Mask is as non-disappointing as an LP can be (IMO)... it's not only a career highlight for Lou, but one of "those albums," y'know?

For whatever reason I haven’t felt compelled to pursue his work past 1980.

It's almost the reverse for me, at least with regards to his solo work - I played the shit out of the VU before I finally tiptoed into Reed's post-Velvets career. Coincidentally, I spent the last few days going through his '70s albums, thinking there might be more to it than I thought. The high points are still amazing, I already know them very well through a few compilations, but in most cases they really tower over everything else from the albums they came from. "Street Hassle," "The Bells," "Coney Island Baby" and "Kicks," etc...the albums that have those tracks aren't bad albums, but the remaining tracks were usually underwhelming. Beyond that, Berlin is still my favorite album partly because it's a strong, cohesive statement that hangs together consistently well as an album. Transformer is really uneven but it's got at least four classics on there. The eponymous debut has great songs, but I really prefer the older versions done by the Velvets.

The Blue Mask will always be my favorite - for sound alone, it's his best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l84hIJ3B_E

I love this era of Reed's music.

I remember that Quine interview. He might be right. He sounds like a reactionary crank, but I get it.

. I'd be doing a song, playing D and G for six minutes like 'Doing the Things that We Want To,' which I didn't really like, with no variation and the keyboard guy playing accordian. I thought, 'this is not why I got a guitar and wanted to play in a rock and roll band.'

I mean, ugh, shut up.

so fucking righteous (blue mask title track).

I don't think there's much doubt Quine was right (xxp)

He is but I instinctively recoil from dudes going I'M REAL ROCK 'N' ROLL MAAAAN

Never really thought of Quine as a rock and roll dude tbh!

Nor did I until I read that post! He woke up Lloyd Cole and Matthew Sweet.

I completely agree the sound and ambiance on ‘The Blue Mask’ is gorgeous…I always think I’ve walked in from the street into an empty basement club in the lower east side at 1am to see a beautiful intimate set…very few records capture this vibe

Yeah...although I could live w/o some tracks, some *songs*, that is. esp. "The Day John Kennedy Died" and "Heavenly Arms," but the sound carries me along---as is true of most of this show, once I more or less accept the mixdown of Quine and the ones where he doesn't play: either way (and as I mentioned, he is effective when I can hear him at all), it's the sound of a band, not a bunch of musos humoring the boss, or trying to, and a band suited to, molded to, the style of the songs, incl. their range, as seen on that set list---although it's a mid-80s arena set awright, and this "Sweet Jane" sucks and so would a lot of others w potential for intimacy.
xpost I sympathize w Quine, who seems still in pain, but by his own admission he asked to be on the tour, and he knew they would be playing material from New Sensations and other things he hadn't played on, didn't like, that there would be some fucking mid-80s arena pop rock and he knew from previous experience what Reed was like (incl. introducing Quine here as "my favorite guitarist," then talking shit about and to him offstage)---but he couldn't stay away, and I do sympathize/have been there: sometimes there really is a thin line between love and hate, which can find its way around your neck, and settle in.
Like I mentioned here or on Quine's thread, some have said Reed felt insecure, threatened by Cale's chops and artistry, and the same may be true with Quine---love-hate both ways, even, although that may be too generous to Reed.

There's a Lou Reed biography by Diana Clapton that features a long interview with Chuck Hammer, apparently Lou's previous "favourite guitarist", who played on Growing Up in Public. He reveals the emotional turmoil involved in working with Lou, probably exacerbated since he was still drinking at the time.

Mike Rathke never challenged his chops like Quine did.

Underneath the Bottle is so good. Sort of like the Heroin of recovery.

You're reminding me of Jason Isbell's "It Gets Easier," and what I said about it on last year's Nashville Scene ballot:
(re songs on Reunions) I get some of 'em right away, esp the one about sober life incl. dreams about drinking, a couple nights a week now, like, "I had one glass of wine, woke up feelin' fine,and that's how I knew it was a dream," but some are rougher, like the even realer-seeming dream of calling in sick to treat yourself down town--you deserve it, self, you been real good for so long---"It gets easier, but never easy, " why have I never heard a song about this must-be-fairly-common experience before?

Is “Underneath the Bottle” about recovery, though? The narrator has definitely hit rock bottom, but it doesn’t sound like he’s headed to any meetings…

I think Underneath the Bottle looks back on using in the same clear-eyed way that Heroin looks forward to using.

Thought Lou kicked with Tai Chi and philosophy and didn’t need any meetings.

I like the irony of how it plays/sounds (on the surface) like a “party song”… like it could almost be a tune in a beer commercial.

Such great lines, too:

Things are never good, things go from bad to weird

Seven days make a week, on two of them I sleep

Yeah, the riff/melody are great, almost joyful, but that's why I think it's a recovery song. It's joyful about having come through the other side of that stuff.

XPS and he grew a mullet.

On “Heavenly Arms,” why does Lou sing, Only a woman can love a man?

I’ve always wondered about the intent behind that line. Like, obviously Lou knew that not to be true…

Thought Lou...didn’t need any meetings

Lester Bangs wrote about seeing him at AA meetings.

why does Lou sing, Only a woman can love a man?

According to Victor Bockris, in the 80s Lou would flatly deny having even been other than heterosexual.

^^When his lyrics were collected, "Sister Ray" was retooled so it was clear the singer was receiving and not giving the fellatio, which was performed by a woman.

God Reed seems like such a fucking jerky weirdo asshole. I wonder what he and Laurie Anderson did together? what did they talk about?

Underneath the Bottle is so good. Sort of like the Heroin of recovery.

"The Last Shot" is more of a recovery song.

I like all of his drikning songs though.

"You have to be real careful where you sit down in a bawr these days"

_Thought Lou...didn’t need any meetings_


Lester Bangs wrote about seeing him at AA meetings.

Lou became a wine connoisseur in his last decade, according to the DeCurtis bio.

I heard a story recently, don’t even want to type it here.

But it seemed to confirm Lou’s latter day drinking.

God Reed seems like such a fucking jerky weirdo asshole. I wonder what he and Laurie Anderson did together? what did they talk about?

― akm, Sunday, October 17, 2021 2:56 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

You can hear it from her

Lou and I played music together, became best friends and then soul mates, traveled, listened to and criticized each other’s work, studied things together (butterfly hunting, meditation, kayaking). We made up ridiculous jokes; stopped smoking 20 times; fought; learned to hold our breath underwater; went to Africa; sang opera in elevators; made friends with unlikely people; followed each other on tour when we could; got a sweet piano-playing dog; shared a house that was separate from our own places; protected and loved each other. We were always seeing a lot of art and music and plays and shows, and I watched as he loved and appreciated other artists and musicians. He was always so generous. He knew how hard it was to do. We loved our life in the West Village and our friends; and in all, we did the best we could do.

https://www-rollingstone-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/laurie-andersons-farewell-to-lou-reed-a-rolling-stone-exclusive-243792/amp/?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16344793685874&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rollingstone.com%2Fmusic%2Fmusic-news%2Flaurie-andersons-farewell-to-lou-reed-a-rolling-stone-exclusive-243792%2F

According to Victor Bockris, in the 80s Lou would flatly deny having even been other than heterosexual.

― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, October 16, 2021 11:37 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I think he wanted to sell out, and have big huge hits like Bowie around '83-'84 (not that Bowie "sold out"). The production got glossier in '84, he had a slick -- in the pejorative sense -- backing band, he made inoffensive MTV-ready videos (one of which I saw on the ABC Saturday Morning aimed-at-kids video show), he did the Honda scooter ad, showed up on a couple of big movie soundtracks (White Nights was one, can't remember if there were others), and was starting to play -- though not necessarily fill -- 10,000+ capacity arenas in the US. Claiming he was only ever heterosexual was for him just something else from his past to sweep under the rug lest it impede his mainstream momentum.

I was gonna ask: how visible was Lou Reed b/w New Sensations and New York. It looks like starting with "I Love You, Suzanne" his MTV and general cultural profile enlarged.

pejorative
Did you learn this word from Lou?

how visible was Lou Reed

I know I saw the videos for "No Money Down", "Dirty Blvd" and "What's Good" on MuchMusic. Both the local classic rock station and the alternative station played songs from New York when it came out.

It looks like starting with "I Love You, Suzanne" his MTV and general cultural profile enlarged.

If it wasn't hearing "Walk On The Wild Side" on the radio, then my first exposure to Lou was definitely "I Love You Suzanne."

And hey, Lou had some moves (at 3:20):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc-bwzN6IVk

My recollection is that one thing that helped Lou start building a more mainstream audience was Rock ‘n’ Roll Animal.

XP Ha, saw that recently for the first time and Dancin' Lou was a <revelation>.

There's a loose narrative about the neighborhood running through all the New Sensations vids.

My recollection is that one thing that helped Lou start building a more mainstream audience was Rock ‘n’ Roll Animal.

― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs)

sure -- then he torpedoed the profile for the next decade

speaking as someone who was "there" as the time (albeit maybe 18-19), yes New Sensations felt like a much more mainstream album with a higher profile, "Suzanne" was actually on the radio

This is true. But anecdotally I knew quite of few of those RnRA fans, I feel like maybe they helped keep him alive during the lean years.

listened to and criticized each other’s work, Maybe this had something to do with his albums very eventually getting to be fairly consistently good/better? Was struck by hearing an interview yesterday with comedian-writer-editor-etc. Phoebe Please Don't Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes: EssaysRobinson, incl. the things "no one will tell you," when you aren't doing good work anymore---this incl. agents and producers as well as friends---and and this morning an interview w Toni Morrison on editing and teaching and writing: "Writers don't know what to trust in their writing...they'll do something more elaborate, not trusting what's already there," which reminded me of xgau's Lou review comments thinking that sometimes he tried too hard, even that throwaways might be his best stuff---well *some* of his best stuff, when he gets that hooky bad behavior going, flowing, I'd say---but anyway, making a record is necessarily more of a collaborative process, on some level, no matter how you treat your colleagues, while writing the lyrics, even in the studio, is more a singleton (so a lot of "singer-songwriter" records seem better to me musically than lyrically)--unless maybe just that one person---evah--gets through, which may (possibly) be the case w Laurie.

Though of course this is her story (incl. possible push-back, even if unconscious, vs. his bad reputation)

shared a house that was separate from our own places; Sounds good!

Speaking of collaboration in the studio, when I first started buying VU LPs, in the 70s, I noticed that at least some of thee classicks had the whole line-up listed as writers---then, when the same titles showed up on RnRA, the solo artist got solo credit--was wondering if maybe he bought out the others, and/or could afford better lawyers by then (at least ones provided by suits backing his new career of evil solo genius)

RnRA and some others.

I feel like Laurie was sufficiently famous and high up on the food chain to be able to call Lou’s bluff on his BS, and no doubt they did all those things together and yet, what I am trying to say, I would personally prefer to gaze upon Lou through Billy Name’s fisheye lens rather than having to deal with him directly. Although he was nice enough when he signed my copy of New Sensations.

O hell yeah, like Marcus saying he'd go out of the room to avoid meeting Bowie, despite loving some of his music
re collab(Also thinking of Dylan's long and winding The Cutting Edge, but sessioneers prob had to sign some kind of prenup? But there has eventually been litigation, like Johnnie Johnson vs. Chuck Berry)

Speaking of lawyers, Eugene Pallette to thread! And also, one of the reasons Andy flourished whereas, say, Terry Southern didn’t, aside from the Polish-American Catholic work ethic, is that Andy had some kind of army of lawyers in tow to fight back against harassment from the Feds, iirc.

Warhol, you mean? Wasn't he Czech? They've long had a Our Boy Done Good museum over there. Reminds me of reading in a review of his Diaries that he kept them per tax advice.

Son of Czech-Americans, I mean, although maybe one was Polish?

Oops, sorry, Slovakia. Maybe I can find something else interesting I read about him once to post here.

As I told Sund4r elsewhere, Ben Monder told me he loved hanging out with Bowie - and Tony Visconti too!- whilst making Blackstar, because he was really smart and well-read and remembered most of what he had read.

Cool, well, Marcus wrote that back in the original heyday, when Bowie was a workacokaholic, or just starting to get past that.

i think.

On the other hand, a neighbor of mine (no, not that one!) told me a slightly crepey story of a Diamond Horndog Dave asking a female friend to accompany him to the Empire State Building (DO U SEE?) to be his wing whilst he picked up chicks. I guess you are only young once.

Son of Czech-Americans, I mean, although maybe one was Polish

I think they were Ruthenians, one those difficult to define ethnic groups that were all over the Austro Hungarian Empire: a bit Czech, a bit Polish, a bit Ukrainian.

Back in Pittsburgh, Tom had grown up with a puny cousin, Andy Warhola. Andy had been raised by a crazy mother who couldn’t afford milk for the little kid and raised him on black bread and strong coffee—“Coffee-Nerves Warhola,” the neighborhood kids would cruelly call him. When his mother went on errands, Tom’s teenaged aunts—those rowdy girls who slept toe-to-head-to-toe in double beds—would baby-sit Coffee Nerves. They’d tie him to the bed with scarfs, where he’d scream until he couldn’t scream anymore. The girls would put up their hair and leaf through movie magazines, all the while watching out the window to see if the old lady was coming home. When they saw her, they’d untie the kid, collect their money, and go home, while the scrawny little victim screamed. It made a good story and they told it a lot, and went on telling it even when “Coffee Nerves,” who was Tom’s age, grew up to be Andy Warhol, trying for the rest of his short life to forget his squalid beginnings. So when my unevolved father-in-law—who would address twenty sentences to me during the ten years I’d be married to his son—opined to me that watering the lawn was simply force-feeding it, I’d feel curiously at home. Tom and I had been through a lot, and though some of it was different, a lot of it was the same. We felt the same light-headed relief when we drove home—from his father’s, or my mother’s. We’d place hypothetical bets: if we matched them in a boxing ring, who would win, his father or my mother? We both agreed it would be my mother, going away

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/world/europe/andy-warhol-slovakia-mikova-medzilaborce.html

And, to confirm Tom D’s excellent contribution:
https://europebetweeneastandwest.wordpress.com/2016/02/09/i-am-from-nowhere-andy-julia-warhol-from-carpathian-ruthenia-with-love/

Carolyn Says

"Dirty Blvd" got significant play on MTV

Wow this is interesting, Chris Molanphy on Lou's chart success/sales

Rock n Roll Animal and New York are his only gold albums in America! Even Transformer isn't gold

"Dirty Blvd" and "What's Good" are his only number ones (Billboard Modern Rock singles)

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/123-embrace-and-repel-lou-reeds-chart-history/

There’s a pretty charming story in the recent NYTimes profile of Laurie Anderson about her and Lou keeping separate apartments:

They each had a view of the Hudson River, and Reed would call her sometimes during the day to point out an interesting cloud. Then they would stay on the phone together, looking at it for a while.

Xpost though according to wiki Transformer sold 475k in the UK which is a lot

Carolyn Says Sees

Welp since we were talking writing, feedback, colleagues, accomplices:

Delmore's Delicatessen of Dreams Responsibilities World Weddings Movies open all night

(Although I don't have the edition w Lou intro)

I do, now, since my paper copy is gone and I bought the ebook. I don’t like the Lou intro that much, surprise.

Puts me in a bit of a sour mood or deepens it, when I think of an annoying figure who once tried to permanently borrow some of my Delmore Schwartz books in order to enhance his already pretension persona before he really went off the deep end.

Actually I was a pole vaulter he appears in the Anthony DeCurtis bio where he runs afoul of Lou for flirting with Laurie which my (yet another) neighbor’s at the time (rock) journalist girlfriend didn’t believe until they asked the offending party himself who confirmed.

Reed’s own way of handling such situations was typically more blunt and frontal. At a birthday dinner for the novelist A. M. Homes at the Greenwich Village restaurant Il Cantinori, Reed noticed Anderson, seated across the table from him, enjoying a conversation with writer Lee Smith. Reed leaned across the table, glared at Smith, and challenged Anderson. “Who the fuck is this guy?” he asked. A devoted fan of Reed’s, Smith defused Reed’s anger by asking him about Delmore Schwartz.

Who could resist flirting w Laurie?

Good thing I know to ask about Delmore

proud and regal name!

Your Bialystock to his Bloom was such a perfect wit.

I’m trying to remember what Garland Jeffreys said about this whilst wearing t-shirt I bought from his wife at his apartment (He was doing a free concert on the grounds). Seem to recall he was unimpressed by Delmore at the time Lou introduced him. But man, I sure loved the James Atlas bio, along with the Delmore portrait in When Kafka Was the Rage, but took no little offense at his portrayal in Humboldt’s Gift.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/16/garland-jeffreys-hung-out-with-lou-reed-brush-with-greatness
The ending of this almost made me want to cry, really, although probably not nearly as hard as Lou cried at the end of Terms of Endearment.

A proud and regal name!
He told various stories about why his Mom named him that. As I mentioned on the xpost Delmore thread:
...Cynthia Ozick concludes, in her intro to Screeno: Stories and Poems, though some may think of the fancy poems as Delmore, the urban raincoat stories as Schwartz, "they're really from the same DNA." By the time GJ met him, may have already been consistently on the skids, although seems to have always been quite variable. Have held off on reading the Atlas bio because JA dismisses the stories after first collection, or more of them than I do, also, having read so much of him, don't really want to read that much more about him, as w Proust etc., but more so. Prob will someday, though.

Haven’t reread in years, but whatever beefs Atlas may have with some of the work, his portrayal of DS is extremely sympathetic.

I found Schwartz a lucid critic and pretty good short story writer and a clotted, obscurantic poet.

This indigestible hybrid of (Hart) Crane and Roethke.

You forgot top tier raconteur!

His most famous poems and a selected few others are good but yeah.

I know I seem to stand alone as his sole stan on ILB/X, but I feel something similar about Gilbert Sorrentino: indifferent to his poetry, jaw drops at everything else he does.

Coterie Writers Of Minimum Distinction Memorial Thread

The most recently, frequently revived Lou thread, so I'll paste this here, from ilxor tylerw's invaluable tumblr, doomandgloomfromthetomb:

Lou Reed - Tinley Park, Chicago, Illinois, September 12, 1992*

Last week, we heard Lou debut some spoken word renditions of a few Magic & Loss lyrics. Today, we get to hear them in a more traditional setting: you can’t beat two guitars, bass and drums. I’ve picked this particular show not only because it’s a very nice FM broadcast, but also because it features a very unique, very cool, very short-lived band: the awesome Marc Ribot on lead guitar and bassist Greg Cohen, along with drummer Michael Blair.

Ribot and Cohen at this point were probably best known for their work in the John Zorn and Tom Waits universes, and it’s interesting to hear their styles added to Lou’s early 1990s period. Ribot in particular is probably the most distinctive guitarist this side of Quine that Lou has worked with — and he sounds great here, going for broke in a way that Mike Rathke doesn’t. Check out his smoky solo on “Magician” or his driving, his shimmery sound on “Tell It To Your Heart” or his dramatic playing on “Sword of Damocles.” That latter tune is a highlight; towards the end, Lou quotes “Save The Last Dance For Me,” making its connection to Doc Pomus explicit. A really powerful moment!

I like the other Magic & Loss numbers, too — they’re a little more revved up and energetic, for sure. It’s also impressive that Lou tries to perform “Harry’s Circumcision” in front of a somewhat rowdy outdoor audience. He really believed in his new material — in fact, the set is dominated by late-period material, aside from a few obligatory walks on the wild side. Onwards!

Lou Says (1992): You’re confused because you’re thinking about pop music and pop records, or rock ‘n’ roll. Think about Brecht and Weill, “Seven Deadly Sins.” Boy, now I wish I had come up with that one first. If you think of it as Lou Reed music, not pop or rock, those expectations (of what kind of songs belong on a pop record) disappear, because they don’t exist for an artist… All the way back to “Heroin,” the idea was to tell stories from different points of view, with conflicting opinions. Some of it can seem very personal, or at least it comes across that way, because you’re acting. And then you can write something equally personal that’s completely at odds with what the first person said. Any great novel has lots of “personal things” floating through it, whatever the character you’re writing about.
*link is at top of tyler's page:
https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/search/Lou%20Reed%20Marc%20Ribot