So, Fleet Foxes...

I gather they've had loads of hype -= from which directions?

Radcliffe & Maconie for one.

OK, this is weird. i got an e-mail yesterday from my former boss, which just said:

"So... fleet foxes?"

either way: not heard them, vaguely intrigued, should probably rectify that blah blah.

I gather they've had loads of hype -= from which directions?

Guardian Media Group

Have only heard a little, but was quite charmed by the way the hymnal thing conjures up the dusty school assembly hall vibe. Felt like I should be listening to it sitting cross-legged in my socks.

Shite name though.

I've listened to it three times now and wanted to like it but it's just failed to impress upon me altogether. There are a few nice moment, primarily when they drop the drums and go properly folky, but overall they just sound like a really dull, asset stripped version of My Morning Jacket's quieter moments.

the record starts promosing, but the Shins meets Grizzly Bear formula is repeated too many times and i lost patience

I've been bombarded by almost daily emails lauding their praises from their PR people for the last six months or so.

They are terrible and the Radcliffe/Maconie ALLEGED PAYOLA hype is particularly insufferable though one should expect no better from the Bella Union Guardian Music section.

Actually, Radcliffe and Maconie are just particularly insufferable at the moment - smug, racist, sexist, homophobic, Tory twats, and that's just their listeners.

I wouldn't know, I only ever listen to them when I'm driving home from the Bowls club.

And woe betide anyone who fails to toe the party line - the M+M whip will decry you as "contrived."

The hype has certainly been off-putting, but my jury's out on them thus far. It all sounds very pretty, especially the vocals; I'll give them that much at least.

They strike me very much as a group for the kind of people who won't admit to liking Coldplay.

I dunno, they're a lot more low-key than Clodpole, I didn't really get any sense of stadium aspirations.

Given the descriptions, this is the sort of Southall music I'd probably find a bit dull, because I have "no heart". As opposed to the sort of Southall music that appeals to the subjective heart I do have. Still, I'll give them a go at some point.

The first time I heard White Winter Hymnal and Ragged Wood it made my heart want to burst.

So you'll probably hate them, Louis...

This is the CD of the month mailed out by the Rough Trade Album Club, but I haven't had a chance to listen to it. It came with a bonus disc of extra songs.

Plenty going for £4 in MVE in a month's time then.

There's something saccharine in the harmonies that's oft-putting.

Yeah I'd go with that, but then I don't even like the Beach Boys.

I'd say less Coldplay, more the Magic Numbers without the fat jokes.

The first time I heard White Winter Hymnal and Ragged Wood it made my heart want to burst.

I had the same reaction to White Winter Hymnal. And the saccharine harmonies are what make them appealing to me. Just bought the full disc.

I don't like The Beach Boys either!

the Magic Numbers without the fat jokes.

lolololol

overall they just sound like a really dull, asset stripped version of My Morning Jacket's quieter moments.

amen. not into it.

Good name that doesn't fit the music - nice vocal sounds, but the predictable, uninteresting chord progressions render the overall effect lifeless and drab.

Counting Crows for a (slightly) different demographic.

Great drum sound.

Not really getting the Counting Crows thing. Light, beatific, joyous vs overwrought emotional trauma?

50% Shins, 50% Midlake for me. Nice, but a bit uninteresting stuff.

Not getting the Coldplay thing, either. "Hello clouds, hello sky, hello ickle pretty birdies..." vs. "Meh, bit miserable, shall I kiss it better..."

Specifically the start of Ragged Wood reminds me of the "each day / spend it with you / yeah" bit in that Grizzly Bear song when the hammond gets going and everything notches up tempo-wise and IT'S AWESOME. Those drums make me want to run into the mountains forever and live in a delirious cabin.

Oh Mike, btw, I think you might dig the Shearwater album if you've not already heard it.

I prefer Grizzly Bear doing it.

How can you scratch your head at Coldplay yet savour those apnoeic cacafuegos Elbow?

Hahahaha, I love you, Marcello.

I prefer Grizzly doing it too, just about, but that doesn't mean I don't like Fleet Foxes doing it, at least for the moment.

Elbow do everything Coldplay do but with a better singer, better lyrics, better rhythms, more interesting songs, a wider emotional palette, a better guitarist and less grade 1 piano.

Oh Mike, btw, I think you might dig the Shearwater album if you've not already heard it.

Man, Shearwater strikes me as a really dull, plodding, flat-sounding band. The :30 samples from their new disc haven't changed my mind yet. When I hear or read someone say "Indie-Schmindie," or some other snide, I think they're talking about bands like Shearwater and Okervil River. I know some people are passionate about those bands, tho. Maybe just not for my (old) ears (damn kids with their crazy rock music).

RONG (xpost)

Nothing wrong with Grade I piano when emotions demand it. If only Elbow had some Cecil Taylor piano, it might drown out the drear ramblings of Guy "Ventolin Man" Garvey.

Elbow are what people think Embrace are like.

Hahahaha!

Daniel, Esq., I'm not familiar at all with Shearwater pre Rook, but Rook is some pretty awesome, folk-rock-ambient shit.

My first impressions were a bit premature, "He Doesn't Know Why", "Heard Them Stirring" and "Your Protector" are truly beautiful songs.

I'm looking forward to the Hova "Your Protector" remix: "You walk along the stream BOUNCE, BOUNCE/Your head caught in a waking dream IT'S YA BOYY
Your protector's coming home and you don't STOP &c."

Not really getting the Counting Crows thing. Light, beatific, joyous vs overwrought emotional trauma?

I just meant Counting Crows in the wearing-influences-on-sleeve/static background muzak kinda way.

"white winter hymnal" excepted, the album is a huge letdown after the e.p. the hype these guys are getting is a little overbearing, kind of like the obnoxious liner notes on the sleeve of the cd--a lot of positioning how we're supposed to receive and listen to them, what bands we're supposed to be hearing as influences that these fleet foxes are upgrading for us

See, in the old days you had, say, a Buffalo Springfield album, and all you got was maybe a picture of the band on the front and another on the back plus personnel details, track listing and other relevant credits and you had to work the rest out for yourself instead of being spoonfed.

That's not entirely true, Marcello, is it? If anything you get less info on record sleeves these days cos it';s all on fucking Facebook.

CD packaging is pathetic these days. All you get is a picture of the artist on the front and maybe another on the back plus track listings, personnel details (if you're lucky) and other relevant credits (not always) and so you have to work the rest out for yourself instead of being given proper information what you've paid your hard earned £16 for innit.

Elbow do everything Coldplay do but with a better singer, better lyrics, better rhythms, more interesting songs, a wider emotional palette, a better guitarist and less grade 1 piano.

And more imaginative/adventurous arrangements/production, greater emotional acuity and honesty, a sense of genuine rather than ersatz connection with their listeners, a total lack of pomposity... I could go on!

Oh Mike, btw, I think you might dig the Shearwater album if you've not already heard it.

Just playing "Red Sea, Black Sea" now. Hmm, starts off like Richard Thompson, and then it all expands outwards and kind of goes WAAAA! Yes, not bad at all.

As for Grizzly Bear: I didn't like that Crystals cover at all, sorry. But hark, what's this... "Knife"... ooh, much more like it...

Rook is some pretty awesome, folk-rock-ambient shit.

Okay, this is the new one, yes? It's on eMusic. I'll investigate.

Nope, I can't get with endlessly played on R2 because he's a DJ on 6Music glumdar 1974-style soft rock The Fortunes if they'd lost a fortune Ovaltine-inciting peddlers of dribbling Harvester schmindie Phil and Kirstie-approved mock-pop Elbow.

First album was quite good, though.

Well, you have to put "Grounds For Divorce" and "One Day Like This" within the context (i.e. loss and love) slash hem-hem Emotional Arc of the album innit. Try "Starlings" and "The Bones Of You" instead?

I have no tolerance of "Grounds For Divorce," even when it was originally recorded by the Levellers under the title "Just The One."

I really want to like a band that can actually, truly sing. But I'm not sure about these guys.

Funny, I really like Grizzly Bear but it never occurred to me to make the comparison. Mostly it just seems very Shins-like but without the hooks and with a folkier, more pastoral feel.

And of course it was Fleet Foxes who supported Elbow at the RFH a couple of nights ago, as part of Massive Attack's Meltdown. (<a href="http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/06/meltdown_fleet_foxes_vs_elbow.html";>Guardian review is here</a>.) Ooh look, a Judee Sill cover!

Just playing the album for the third (or maybe fourth) time, and really feeling it right now. Beatific, yes. "White Water Hymnal", GOD yes. But then soppy beatific pastoralism does go quite a long way with me...

Bloody BBcode...

I enjoy this band. They were really great live. Spot-on harmonies and a great handle on dynamics.

But I snickered when I saw someone call them Crosby Shins Nash and Young.

No 8 in the midweeks.

This is terrible music

The METASCORE for this disc is 88/100 on 25 reviews. Apparently, the ILXSCORE for this disc is somewhere around 32/100 on around 30 reviews.

with a slight diffrence in the scores, you could post yr post on 99% of the (good) indie records thread in ilx.

thouugh, at least in this case, im with ilx.
easy come,easy go, this record.

This sounds like an American version of Cast.

You're mental.

I like it, personally. A bit overhyped, but seriously - that shouldn't matter. People are a bit quick to hate on overhyped bands that are actually pretty good - form your own damn opinions.

Anyway, this is what I thought Grizzly Bear were going to be like when I first heard "Knife." Then Grizzly Bear put me to sleep with every other fucking song. I like these guys. And I don't even like the Beach Boys either, per many opinions above.

grizzly bear's yellow house is pretty amazing. so is fleet fox's e.p. this album, though, snooze

The METASCORE for this disc is 88/100 on 25 reviews. Apparently, the ILXSCORE for this disc is somewhere around 32/100 on around 30 reviews.

Someone should really set up a program or app so we can do this.

I seriously do not get how someone could go for the EP but not the album, it's not like there's any sudden stylistic variation or drop-off in quality. If you swapped the EP tracks with any tracks on the album neither would be qualitatively altered for the worse or the better.

I've also still seen no hype about these guys which I guess helps.

I'm sick of Beach Boys affectations. I want people to affect you know uhhhh, something else. I don't know, what's there left to affect?

I don't like The Beach Boys much. I like these guys. I don't think they sound like The Beach Boys that much.

I haven't heard them, but the only thing I read about them involves the Beach Boys

nick, to my ears, the e.p. has more dynamic songs. the album is slower and more meditative. i get sick of it after a while. disappointment plays a part. also, i think they sound more like my morning jacket and band of horses than the beach boys

"If Assholes.." is right, this shit is awful.

skygreenleopard? were/are you in the band Sky Green Leopards...?

Metacritic is not a good gauge of quality at all, either in movies or music. The best music and movies, in my opinion, are typically highly polarizing and would have scores of between 60 and 80. Seriously, look up your favorite albums in there and I bet you'd find them in that section and not in the shitty 85+ section, where most everything's this "acceptable" rock shite that doesn't really offend anyone and doesn't push any sort of boundaries. The high scoring stuff is almost uniformly made up of boring "critical faves" that no one actually likes in a really passionate way.

Metacritic is not a good gauge of quality at all

Actually, what I meant was that a high score is not a good gauge of quality

rock shite that doesn't really offend anyone and doesn't push any sort of boundaries

why is it important for music to offend anyone and/or push boundaries?

I mean that's some seriously "rockist", received wisdom type of crap about the "purpose" of music

res kind of OTM, RECORDED music should always attempt to push boundaries, live music should instil a fucking mood. and most high-scoring Metacritic albums are kinda shite

RECORDED music should always attempt to push boundaries

but... why? To a certain extent, boundaries are inevitably pushed by technology and the passage of time, no artistic/aesthetic input is really necessary. One could note that the advent of digital technology has "pushed the boundaries" - but one could also argue that its enabling of dynamic range compression has been incredibly detrimental to recorded music in general.

also what are these boundaries... are they aesthetic or technological? (the latter will happen inevitably as I've noted, the former begs the question of who establishes those boundaries and what is the point of their constantly being moved)

aesthetic, dude. technology can help with this but it doesn't have to. i just don't think people should record shit that's already been done.

what qualifies as "already been done" (for example, see memphis minnie vs. Zep "When the Levee Breaks" on the LZ IV poll thread, etc.)

do you only enjoy like 1 album a year then louis?

NO RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my point is that most people record shit that's "already been done" in one sense or another. Even so, the combination of changes in recording technology and any given artist's personal foibles inevitably make any ostensible "copying" kinda impossible, unless yr talking note-for-note slavish traditionalism like the Squirrel Nut Zippers or Combustible Edison or something. Even then I think there's something to be said for such cases where those kinds of artists help to keep a given thread of musical tradition alive, which can be a virtue in itself.

I think the only real instances where doing something that's "already been done" gets out of hand and inevitably produces unsatisfying results is when you have bands trying to actively ape their contemporaries (like with, say, She Wants Revenge basically doing Interpol) - but in those cases it has more to do with the copier being lazy craftsmen rather than their taking an inherently bad approach. She Wants Revenge might be better than Interpol at their own schtick if they happened to write better songs (which they don't).

What I meant was that high scored records on Metacritic are typically inoffensive and cater to pre-existing notions of what music should be-- which is how so many critics all agree on it-- and great music rarely re-treads old ground. Not saying that everything coming out should warp all your expectations, but originality is a virtue, and music that pleases everyone isn't usually the stuff that greatness is made of. Just my opinion.

pre-existing notions like "music must push boundaries" (just like, say, "Sgt Pepper" or "Kid A" "pushed boundaries"? lolz)

having a pre-existing notion doesn't automatically invalidate it.

anyway as I've gotten older the entire concept of "originality" increasingly seems completely unrealistic/irrelevant to me. Everything is part of a continuity and inevitably has precursors and reference points - an artist being identified as "original" usually just means the listener can't identify who the artist in question is drawing from.

x-post

having a pre-existing notion doesn't automatically invalidate it.

well then why did you refer to it as a negative? also why should music be offensive and who should it offend

originality doesn't mean not drawing on anyone else-- it's more like having a unique quality that impresses itself on you in a positive way and which can't be confused for anyone else.

well then why did you refer to it as a negative? also why should music be offensive and who should it offend

Your rebuttal is creating a straw man that I'm not arguing. It's not the expectations or pre-conceived notions by themselves that are bad. It's when they are applied over a large scale by our interpretation of dozens of critics with different tastes-- and how we look to an averaged score of reviews to assess how good an album is. To me, this implies a middling effect over the large scale.

I would say it's more akin to, say, how mediocre politicians are given frontrunner status because they appeal to the widest demographic of people. This, of course, does not make them the ideal candidates. But over the large scale, the most people liked them.

"also why should music be offensive and who should it offend"

Does It Offend You, Yeah?

(sorry about that)

yeah I don't disagree about metacritic - or that the best albums are actually usually the most polarizing.

x-post

This album is BORING. Where's the songs. I don't give a shit that something has HARMONIES. Fuck that.

Tell me about it. I've grown so weary of reading dozens of Metacritic reviews that gush about the "sparking pop gems" and "gorgeous harmonies" and "lush production" and all this shit, but two weeks later you're like, I DON'T REMEMBER ONE FUCKING SONG ON THAT ALBUM

(that's a general statement, btw-- not directly at this album specifically, but definitely applicable)

nick, to my ears, the e.p. has more dynamic songs. the album is slower and more meditative. i get sick of it after a while. disappointment plays a part. also, i think they sound more like my morning jacket and band of horses than the beach boys

I've never consciously heard either MMJ or Band of Horses (or The Shins either for that matter), so can't judge that at all.

I did hear the album about four days before I heard the EP though, so the EP came across to me as 'more of the same, but without the genius of WWH or Ragged Wood.

our experiences of hearing the two releases are reverse. also, the copy of the e.p. that was given to me had "white winter hymnal" on it. i think all the songs on the e.p. are of that quality. on the album it's by far the standout. this is the most disappointed i've been by the focus and quality of a debut e.p. overshadowing its lackluster full-length follow up since tv on the radio

xposts

anyway as I've gotten older the entire concept of "originality" increasingly seems completely unrealistic/irrelevant to me.

"I can tell that I am growing old; one unequivocal sign is the fact that I find novelty neither interesting nor surprising, perhaps because I see nothing essentially new in it -- it's little more than timid variations on what's already been. When I was young, I was drawn to sunsets, slums, and misfortune; now it is to mornings in the heart of the city and tranquility."

-- Jorge Luis Borges, "The Congress"

I picked up the album yesterday evening, after hearing them for the first time yesterday morning. It's been a really long time since a band has made me feel like "I need this". Haven't heard the EP so can't comment whether it's superior or on par, but based on a couple listens I really like this album, a really lot. I don't hear any Beach Boys in it whatsoever... same went for that Panda Bear record - what, harmonies and reverb equal Beach Boys? I do hear a huge MMJ similarity though. I can't decide if the similarity bugs me or not quite yet. It could be noted that, MMJ aside, bands with reverb-drenched vocals has become a genre in of itself in the last couple years. Panda Bear, Besnard Lakes, Band of Horses, Ruby Suns... those just off the top of my head. I know there are others. The thing that FF have in their favor, I think, is you could take the reverb away and there would still be a lot of really strong, interesting songs.

same went for that Panda Bear record - what, harmonies and reverb equal Beach Boys?

this was ssooooooo my reaction to the Panda Bear record (which I do like) - but yeah, lazy journalists.

I like it very much.

I'll always have a soft spot for anything that references shape note singing so liberally. Sun it Rises is great but White Winter Hymnal perfect lying on the grass music.

Saw them again in Philly the other night. No stage presence to speak of, but they sounded fantastic.

I have a very strong feeling this album will end up garnishing top slots at the end of the year.

ZOMGG QFT

"You pieces of shit."

This album sounds prettier and prettier every time I listen to it. (The EP too.)

i like it, don't listen to it that often though.

Dizzee Rascal doesn't like it much.

It's very pretty but hollow beyond that, I feel.

I can enjoy two or three tracks in isolation, but then it becomes a case of diminishing returns, and after about five or six tracks I've morphed from Charmed to Scornful. "Pretty but hollow" sums it up for me too.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

the only time i liked FF was in the aeroplane resident advisor podcast.

It's very pretty but hollow beyond that, I feel.

this sounds about right, they seem to nicely wash over me without leaving much of an impression. And with no urge to relisten, I don't think they're going to be one of those ones who creep up on you and be incredible when you thought they were only "nice".

For those that think the record is good but becomes a little too faceless by the end, I recommend removing "Quiet Houses" and the instrumental. Try listening to it that way and see if it doesn't feel like a stronger record.

quite liking 'Blue Ridge Mountains' if nothing else much. one of the better album covers this year too tho fwiw.

Fleet Foxes are no Laurel and Hardy, that's for sure.

Fleet Foxes reminds me of Firefox: pleasant, but not original and somewhat overrated.

I just noticed that Starbucks is selling it. Earlier in the year, Starbucks sold an album of Ray Charles duets, Genius Loves Company at its 6,100 locations. The album went platinum, and 350,000 of those were sold at Starbucks. Fleet Foxes was on a rack on the counter that held only two CDs, including a glam rock compilation. I'm not sure if this is the same for most Starbucks, or if a particular employee chose to feature it. I doubt the average yuppie customer is going to jump at an unknown name, but I'd be curious to see if the sales have increased at all.

Someone's blog post - http://gonze.com/blog/2008/10/01/fleet-foxes-from-starbucks/

Yeah, my wife told me that she saw it in Starbucks the other day. She thinks that I only like obscure bands, so she figured that having a band I like featured at Starbucks would annoy me. I jokingly agreed that it did annoy me. But in reality, I wish them all the success they can get, assuming it won't cause them to go mainstream in a bad way (I know that's Rockist Cliches 101, but I think it does actually happen sometimes).

I really like the album though. Someone mentioned My Morning Jacket upthread - I haven't heard enough MMJ to know, but if they do have an album that sound like FF, I'd like to find it. It reminds me more of older bands like Fairport Convention, David Crosby solo, or newer bands like Devendra Banhart, Joanna Newsom, or Espers.

think they sound more like my morning jacket and band of horses than the beach boys

^^^this. i'm really not feeling the hypeyhype quality here - i mean, the first three tracks are knock-out but the fall-off is massive. not a patch on the BoH album.

Maybe the best tracks are at the beginning, but I don't think the fall-off is that great. I really like "He Doesn't Know Why", "Your Protector", and "Meadowlark", and at least like the rest.

http://vimeo.com/1851415

this is super good fyi

i like this album much more than anything by MMJ.

Someone mentioned My Morning Jacket upthread - I haven't heard enough MMJ to know, but if they do have an album that sound like FF, I'd like to find it.

― o. nate, Wednesday, October 8, 2008

There is no MMJ album that sounds exactly like Fleet Foxes. MMJ never do the harmonies the way FF do. But Pecknold's voice (plus the reverb) is a dead ringer for Jim James. My wife put it best: if MMJ had followed the folkier influences on their first album (Tennessee Fire), rather than going for the big 70s rock direction, they might've made an album closer to what Fleet Foxes did.

(so, in other words, the closest you'll get to the MMJ album you might want to find is their first.)

Yeah I've been super disappointed with MMJ since Tennessee Fire, this is sort of what I'd always wanted them to make.

Not really as good as it should be. Yeah I hear MMJ/Band of Horses mixed with a bit of Grizzly Bear and people who try and sound like the Beach Boys, but it's really meandering and uncatchy. I can see the appeal, but not worth doing a jizz about or anything.

A couple of swedish sisters covering 'tiger mountain peasant'. I think it's fairly interesting, much more refined than your usual youtube cover.

My wife put it best: if MMJ had followed the folkier influences on their first album (Tennessee Fire), rather than going for the big 70s rock direction, they might've made an album closer to what Fleet Foxes did.

Well put, scott pgwp's wife.

My take on the Fleet Foxes is that it is of course a nice album, but this idea that all American "indie" singers have to sound like Neil Young is getting a bit old in the end. I mean, Flaming Lips, Mercury Rev and The Shins are nice enough with some great pop songs, but that doesn't mean everyone has to sing like they do.

White Winter Hymnal appears to have become this year's Erland Oye-approved acoustic comedown song for ravers. I kind of like it now but I'm not listening to the album again.

Pretty sure that if Jockey Slut still existed they'd have given the album 5/5, incidentally.

yeah i heard it first on that aeroplane resident advisor mix. like it, but dont feel the need to listen to any more of them.

All that wimpy bleating about "leedle headsh hud fallen in the shnow" makes me want to go all Steve Buscemi at the end of Fargo on them apropos their heads.

So what you're saying is... 'Jol out'?

White Winter Hymnal appears to have become this year's
Erland Oye-approved acoustic comedown song for ravers

Haha, well put. Seeing all the comparisons to MMJ - I get more of a Iron & Wine vibe from the album. Bought it without hearing it first, and so far it's been sitting on a shelf most of the time. The harmonies just don't work for me so far. But then again... maybe it'll grow on me, insert platitude.

Well, well! Turns out that they're much stronger live than on record, dispelling all of that cloying feyness with an unexpected muscularity, range and depth. Stirring four-part harmonies throughout, and also a terrific cover of Judee Sill's "Crayon Angels", performed solo by Robin Pecknold.

Yes, they are excellent live. Surprisingly excellent.

they sell Fleet Foxes cds at starbucks haha

they sell Fleet Foxes cds at starbucks --> Surprisingly excellent negated

Yr elitism is making me drowsy. (no need to make the FF comeback... I already see it coming.)

the lyrics are so f'ing bad

I note the following from Mike T-Diva's review:

Equally unexpected was the band’s dry, sardonic, and somewhat rambling comic banter – although, as was cheerfully admitted, this could just have been due to some particularly heavy doses of cold medication. How else to explain their eulogies to John “The Mav” McCain?

“We want four more years of the same”, they drawled, to hoots of amused disbelief.

“Hey, if it ain’t broke...!”

KEEL THEM

Americans: not funny

Well, well! Turns out that they're much stronger live than on record, dispelling all of that cloying feyness with an unexpected muscularity, range and depth.

Hmmm... a bit like My Morning Jacket, non?

They don't sound excessively fey or cloying to me, but then I like Incredible String Band, so maybe my tolerance for that sort of thing is high.

“We want four more years of the same”, they drawled, to hoots of amused disbelief.

“Hey, if it ain’t broke...!”

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/robbeck/sarcasm_meter.jpg

I've finally realized what band they're actually channeling, it isn't the beach boys nor my morning jacket, it's 'Pearls before Swine':

Further Proof:

http://cdn.last.fm/coverart/300x300/2168138.jpghttp://www.panicmanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/fleet_foxes.jpg

I rest my case.

ban Seattle

I'm not sure Pecknold knew about PBS before recording the album, honestly. (disclosure: robin was the nicest dude at bimbo's bitchin burrito kitchen when I did go there, so I am biased.) The interviews I read make it seem that most of those guys aren't music geeks at all. It's like they all grew up with these soppy old 60s/70s rock records, and that's all their universe consists of... I have a hard time believing that's all there is to it, especially if some of these guys had friends in Capitol Hill (i.e. hipster neighborhood), but that's not evidence against either.

Anyway in brief: I wouldn't attribute any Fleet Fox appropriating anything below the radar with a wink. These guys are not James Murphy.

ban Seattle

straight outta Lynnwood CWA

*disgruntled grunt*

The interviews I read make it seem that most of those guys aren't music geeks at all. It's like they all grew up with these soppy old 60s/70s rock records, and that's all their universe consists of... I have a hard time believing that's all there is to it, especially if some of these guys had friends in Capitol Hill (i.e. hipster neighborhood), but that's not evidence against either.

I disagree. Their June interview with MOJO has their singer talking a great deal about how their generation (he's only 22 or 23) differs from older ones in that they grew up with P2P networking and the ability to listen to old records with ease. His love of old, obscure albums he found on the internet is something they talked about briefly. Plus his parents were described as being hippies, so there's also that angle when it comes to their musical influences.

Interview on Jools Holland, dude specifically mentioned Fairport and Steeleye Span as influences. Don't hear *that much* Fairport in them, but 'Gaudete' is a pretty close match isn't it?

wtf lol goths...

Not the Steeleye version though sadly :(

I reread the RS interview, and saw the Mojo piece. Nevermind!

I'd kinda respect the Fleet Foxes or at least their cover art person/group if Balaklava was the inspiration! It's close enough to resemble it, but different enough to not really ape it either.

So is the basic complaint in music aficiando/critic circles about Fleet Foxes topping the End Of Year charts not so much the dislike of the music but that the music doesn't RAWK, doesn't have a captivating backstory, and/or isn't original enough?

I heard them in starbucks earlier. Buncha starbucks yuppies.

sounds like a dude with a nice voice and average musical talent listened to a lot of yellow house. maybe that's just me though (it's not)

my main complainzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This is basically like if music critics as a unit decided the Shins were the freshest and most exciting thing going on in the world of sound instead of placing them at #14 or whatever.

So is the basic complaint in music aficiando/critic circles about Fleet Foxes topping the End Of Year charts not so much the dislike of the music but that the music doesn't RAWK, doesn't have a captivating backstory, and/or isn't original enough?

What I keep reading (and happen to agree with) is basically that they have a great sound but kind of weak songs—nothing really to do with rocking or backstories or originality at all.

that's it pretty much exactly. the album sounds amazing, and obviously their harmonies are right there. but the songs are really not that good. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up liking them more down the road, but usually when a group is this lauded the people who liked them initially cool on them--doesn't have the same spark as the initial stuff, or whatever the argument is.

I also find them pretty saccharine, to be honest.

I guess I've already ended up "down the road" then, because I really like this album now. It just went over my head not even six months ago. Granted, a turning point was seeing them live at SP20. I was nonplussed with the album, but the live show was excellent.

haha well I'm not guaranteeing I'll ever like them down the road, either. like I say, I think they're cloying. ("Oliver James"--ugh.)

better than "Jamie Oliver"

good album

and cloying in a way that I find worse because it's pretty obviously heartfelt. the turnaround line in "White Winter Hymnal"--"And there you go!"--is a good example: it's a cliche, it says zip, they might as well be singing "Everything is everything, brah!"

you mean like dance music lyrics?

*hides from flung knife*

No, not like dance-music lyrics, because dance-music lyrics don't tend to announce themselves as, you know, profound.

Of course they do! The fact that the most famous ones are sampled again and again is testament to that!

The major point i didn't make is that Fleet Foxes aren't exactly a dance group, lol

Actually, that's wrong--sometimes they do, esp. with the stuff that's more cosmic-minded or whatever. (I was thinking about that when I typed the last response but figured I'd leave it alone until someone else brought it up. Didn't take long at all.)

xpost

Well, this point may become important if Fleet Foxes sign to Nocturnal Groove for the sophomore album, but in the meantime

Oh, better you than some dickhead who's still mad at me because I didn't memorize half the Guided by Voices catalog instead of actually enjoying myself during the '90s.

"there you go" could likely mean seeing someone departing rather than "it is what it is"-type meaningless bullshit

Here's the lyric, cribbed from some website:

"I was following the pack
all swallowed in their coats
with scarves of red tied 'round their throats
to keep their little heads
from fallin' in the snow
And I turned 'round and there you go
And, Michael, you would fall
and turn the white snow red as strawberries
in the summertime"

So the line is closer to what passion bucket suggests than what I did--fair enough. I heard it as a pivot line--the perspective changes with it, which I heard it as, just not that specifically. I still don't care for the song or the line, but yeah, I'll cede that point.

"what I heard it as" = a pivot line, not necessarily the sort of pivot line I'd thought of it as, mainly because that line jumps out and sticks in my memory in a way the others don't.

i think nabisco was riding for that verse on the vampire weekend thread

great imagery

haha, well I apologize for belaboring it if it's already been widely discussed here. I don't read anywhere near all the threads around here (and haven't in a long time).

nah not getting on u--just saying that seems to be the verse that everyone picks out, whether its as an example of their hidden lyrical talents or as an example of how poor they are as lyricists

I'm petitioning my local MP to revise the laws on Fleet Foxhunting.

I guess I've already ended up "down the road" then, because I really like this album now. It just went over my head not even six months ago. Granted, a turning point was seeing them live at SP20. I was nonplussed with the album, but the live show was excellent.

Yeah, me too basically. Seeing them live has cast the album in a different light, partly because I've been furnished with a sense of personality which I hadn't quite grasped before. They really are a superb live act - and there's some added intensity and muscularity on stage which mitigates against the soppiness.

I was in the "sounds nice, no songs" camp (I think I said so upthread?), but having the album forced into my ears quite a bit recently I'm beginning to see that there are in fact a few songs in there. At least two! If the whole album's going to grow on me it's really taking its time, though.

the album sounds amazing, and obviously their harmonies are right there. but the songs are really not that good.

I'd take issue with that. At the very least, "White Winter Hymnal", "He Doesn't Know Why" and "Your Protector" I think are very fine purely as songs and melodies. Their entire sound seems to be based on "The Only Living Boy In New York" by Simon and Garfunkel and the singer's voice is quite Lee Maversy.

Wait, that was a Vampire Weekend thread where I was talking about that song? No way. But yeah, I think that lyric is really well-assembled, with loads of craft packed into something that short and simple -- the sounds and internal rhymes, the color scheme, the appearance of the "you" in that turnaround, the way specific things land on specific musical changes, etc. (Even the fact that it starts with that repeating "I was following the," which sounds like some kind of fake-mystical "I was following the eye" until it hops out of the loop and continues into something concrete!)

I dunno, I believe they have three songs that have really stuck with me as great, solid songs; the rest seems, you know, good.

Wait, no, it was on this thread:

New bohemianism: beards, pickling beets, Fleet Foxes, rye...

dude we already went over how there aren't any internal rhymes in that verse

Ok, Shakey, when the words "follow" and "swallow" die, you can show up at their funerals and tell them they didn't rhyme

Sorry n you go to bat for "indie" bands in so many threads I can't keep track. I like that verse though and I like this band a fair amount they are nice to listen to in the winter.

I mean, I don't care if you want to call that part of the rhyme scheme or if you just don't like the verse or whatever, it's remarkably unimportant, but I will be baffled by anyone who denies that there is not some attention to how words feel in the mouth involved in:

- scARRves of RRRed tied RRound their thRRoats

or can't follow what's going on with the S, R, and T sounds in this:

- snow red as strawberries in the summertime

xpost - Max I post to like 2 ILM threads a month, you have me confused with someone else

Ha, pardon me "I will be baffled by anyone who denies that there IS some attention etc."

i was sort of joking since ur two ilm threads were the fleet foxes thread and the vampire weekend thread.....................................

that's called alliteration nabisco.

internal rhyming = following/followed, red/heads, fallin'/fall (leaning heavy on that one), go/snow (2nd iteration, that one too).

um, rhymes that fall at the end of a phrase (go/snow, etc.) are by definition not internal...? The "following/swallowed" one is the only internal rhyme and even that's kinda stretching it since its just the first two syllables in each word that rhyme.

I dunno why I'm even arguing about this, I've never even heard this song I just find the lyrics stupid written down.

I don't like the song, the lyrics or the band, either. But you're pushing way too hard on a narrow, overly limited definition of what internal rhyming is, or can be. Snow/go in the 5th and 6th lines is traditional end rhyming. The repetition of "snow" in the 8th line is internal rhyming that picks up on it. As if any of this matters...

hahaha yeah I'll let it go

lets go back to talking about AC/DC

I don't really agree with the sound vs. songs distinction - I think that the songs are interesting (sometimes interesting for how they meander and fall apart, but still interesting) as much as the sound. Though perhaps when it comes to the lyrics, I would agree with a sound vs. sense distinction. As Nabisco rightly points out, there is a lot of craft going into how the lyrics sound (rhyme, rhythm, alliteration, etc.), though the sense of the words sometimes verges on the hippy-dippy. That doesn't bother me too much though.

Shakey am I tripping or did you seriously just try to tell me that swallowing/followed is better categorized as alliteration?!?!?!

- scARRves of RRRed tied RRound their thRRoats

or can't follow what's going on with the S, R, and T sounds in this:

- snow red as strawberries in the summertime

no I was referring to ^^^this, which is alliteration

I love Blue Ridge Mountains. But then again I love all songs that remind me of "Billie Jean."

nabisco otm about white winter hymnal

Oh, yes, that is alliteration. Not sure why you felt a need to point that out to me, but yes, that is true.

If you really wrap your mouth around it, there's also something nice going on with the sequence of vowel sounds, too, which kind of open up gradually -- ah (scarves), eh (red), ie (tied), ow (round), oh (throats), mostly with the Rs dropping between them.

I think this writing is kind of an, umm, outlier in terms of Fleet Foxes lyrics, though, because as soon as I noticed it I actually started googling around to double-check that they hadn't lifted the lyrics from a poem somewhere; it stuck out to me that way. But listening after that, there's some decent attention to sound in some of the others, too, which ... it seems like a rarity with lyrics.

- scARRves of RRRed tied RRound their thRRoats

or can't follow what's going on with the S, R, and T sounds in this:

- snow red as strawberries in the summertime

no I was referring to ^^^this, which is alliteration

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:37 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark

are performing on SNL??

Blue Ridge Moutain cannot be denied

with rosario dawson :D

seems like an odd fit for the show. i don't like them at all, but trying tbf i don't really see this as being too appealing/fun for anyone not already a fan.

They've already played a couple of the late night shows; this really shouldn't come as a shocka to anyone.

dude, a lot of bands play late night shows. they're something like the sixth indie band ever to play SNL, which is basically the holy grail of late-night shows

by the same token it probably wasn't too appealing/fun for anyone not already a fan of

My Morning Jacket
Vampire Weekend
Wilco
Fiest
Spoon
Arcade Fire
The Shins
Death Cab For Cutie
Modest Mouse (in the halcyon days of 2004)

So, um, yeah, in the past three years indie bands of a certain size have gotten to play SNL. Why you would call them an "odd fit" I don't know.

Their s/t is the best thing to listen to while driving around rural Michigan after a big snowstorm.

I hope you ran over Bon Iver

Wisconsin.

MMJ - appeared on the show to promote evil urges, which debuted at #9 on the charts.
VW - appeared on the show to promote vampire weekend, which debuted at #17 and was everywhere by then (march). certainly comparable to FF in that regard, but i'd argue that VW are easier to like and better suited for such a show
Wilco - appeared after sky blue sky, which debuted at #4, their second top-10 charting album in a row. YHF went gold.
Feist - appeared in support of the reminder, which debuted at #16 and had a song in about every commercial on TV at that point and was up for numerous mainstream awards. cannot seem to find ratings for SNL, but i'd be willing to bet they dipped for this show. could be wrong
Spoon - appeared in support of ga ga ga ga ga, which debuted at #10
Arcade Fire - appeared to promote neon bible which debuted at #2
Shins - appeared to promote wincing the night away, which debuted at #2, not to mention the garden state push
DCFC - appeared to promote plans, which peaked at #4
Modest Mouse - appeared to promote the already-platinum good news for people who like bad news

fleet foxes' self-titled album debuted at #67 in the US. they've been getting a lot of love recently in just about every music publication, but they're easily the most obscure of any of the acts mentioned above, and probably the "weirdest". i'm not saying they shouldnt play the show or that no one is going to enjoy it, i'm just saying that from what i recall there isn't really a precedent for this kind of band, so it caught me by surprise

i don't play this record too much anymore, but when i do i'll try and play it all the way through, because it's somehow never immediately lulls me back in each time i return to it. i like to really establish a rapport with the textures, sounds and moods, and i find this takes some involved listening.

I didn't think I'd like these guys, but you know what, I listened to a few tracks on YouTube tonight and they're not bad, rather pleasant actually, soothing, pastoral.

so many adjectives to describe these guys

and you chose those

by kevink. at 06:35 PM on 01/08/09 Reply
@cookiedough: lol, you're kind missing the point entirely, but w/e.

RHCP
DMB
dashboard confessional (basically any nu-emo)
fleet foxes

:D

the album's doing pretty well plus no one is out promoting anything. you wanna see lady gaga or some shit?

i can't ride for this album but i liked them when i saw them live and im sure this will be pleasant enough

i was being kinda unnecessarily harsh i guess. it's not my thing of course, but like i said, i dont see a bearded dude falsettoing on a chair flying with a lot of the audience.

you know who watches snl regularly? ppl like my parents who are into http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5124YM060WL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

lol, fair. we'll see!

I don't understand -- this band on SNL is the same band that released the Fleet Foxes album (and Sun Giant EP), right? Cause it's like a totally different, not quite as good, band.

omg i forgot today was saturday! fucking packing

lol this is 'fun'

lol their one dude looks like a hairier jeff ross

What the hell is with people sucking on SNL as of late? (Kanye, Taylor Swift, Fleet Foxes...) Are these just bad live performers? Or has something started sucking at the SNL studio?

look at me im awkward lol! arghh i hate this band so much >:|

The first song was fucking horrible.

The second song was really nice but I wouldn't buy their album based on it.

VERDICT: FAIL

also I've only seen her a couple of times but Taylor Swift appears to be incapable of singing live

yeah, i dunno, ive warmed to taylor's vocal limitations (same with Ye), because for me it's not rly the focal point of her music

ugh kenan thompson has ONE FACE

So bizarre. I love Fleet Foxes, but if I had heard their SNL performance I probably would never have bothered with the album. Isn't an SNL performance supposed to encourage sales, not depress them?

No, you heard wrong. It's supposed to depress them.

Why isn't cowboy music ever described as "pastoral"?

What the hell is with people sucking on SNL as of late? (Kanye, Taylor Swift, Fleet Foxes...) Are these just bad live performers? Or has something started sucking at the SNL studio?

― Mordy, Saturday, January 17, 2009 9:49 PM Bookmark

When I saw Kanye ('06) he put on a great show, although I'm not sure I'd be in a huge rush to see an 808s-era Kanye show.

Was that '06 show the Bumbershoot one? That was good.

Yup. That it was.

Haha we could so turn this into a Kanye thread. Xgau just gave the album an A-.

"Avoiding what subject?"

Is the J Tillman album worth a look? (He's the drummer of Fleet Foxes.)

There's something about the SNL space that has always sucked the life out of every performer, but wall-of-sound bands will probably be able to blast their way into listenability. Something more intricate just ends up sounding distant and disjointed. Could be just the way things are miked; maybe it sounds better if you're there. If you knew and liked those Fleet Foxes songs beforehand, you could follow along and provide the what was missing yourself, but if that was your first time listening to them, I can't imagine you'd expend any energy trying to get into them.

i had no idea fleet foxes sounded like that! before snl, that is. i only saw the first song. i've only seen the name here and there. i guess i was expecting some kinda arcade fire thing or on the other hand some sorta 80's synth thing. that first song got my interest. i liked the harmonies. sounded like some sorta lite christian folk rock from the 70's. in a good way, though. didn't make me want to run out and buy their album, but it didn't sound bad at all to me.

The J Tillman albums are some slow, mopey sad bastard stuff. If that sounds appealing, you will probably find it pretty excellent.

They are excellent singers but the first song sucked.

Live performances on TV have "sucked" ever since the 90s.

a) MTV became huge
b) CDs started becoming mastered better (before they started over-compressing later on, but still...)

It's not that performances sounded better in the past. It's just our expectations of live performances increased over time. And again, rise of MTV = dearth of broadcast TV venues for live music and that fun that went with it.

I disagree. Part of the problem has to be the advent of the studio baby; people of mediocre talent who can be "ProTooled" into perfection (quotes intentional; today's Taylor Swift is directly analogous to Al B. Sure in the 80s). If you don't sound like you do on CD, but it comes across like you're trying to sound like you sound on CD but failing, and your CD performance is "flawless", people will think your live performance sucked.

which was the first song, dan?

(lol not so much "disagreeing" as "restating what you said with a slight expansion")

xp: I have no idea; it was slow and mopey and boring but they sounded great singing it.

"blue ridge mountains," probably? I don't actually think you'd dislike the album version. It's secretly an hommage to Billie Jean.

I wasn't referring so much to the performance's being weak (though it was a bit), rather to the lackluster sound the SNL space seems to serve up every time. It's just always attenuated and distant, and without emotional impact. I don't think it has to be that way. Would that we had more live TV music to compare by.

Of course, maybe SNL is apprehensive about tinkering with (read: "beefing up") the live sound given all the flak they took for the Ashlee lip-syncing fiasco a couple years ago.

so i really dug their demo CD in 2006 and kind of skipped their album in 2008 due to hype backlash i guess... then after hearing everyone say their performance on SNL was subpar i had to go download the episode myself and see.

turns out it kind of blew me away and i am now digging their LP/EP. i'm liking it even more than the demo and really getting a Morricone vibe on a lot of songs. sticking it on my 'pod next time i do a stagecoach holdup.

by the way, i'm pretty sure the first song they did on SNL was "Mykonos" from Sun Giant.

I saw them on SNl. I could hear the English folk-revival influence. A definite tendency towards prog-rock "song-shifting." Pretentious lyrics. A little bit of 70s yacht-rock and Doobie Brothers harmonizing. But (aside from lacking prog's bombastic noodling), they took like, the dullest elements of each of those things. Absolute shit, in my opinion.

After the show, according to an SNL cast member, Lorne Michaels asked the main guy how old everyone in the band was, and the main guy said, "Well, most of us are beardy-something.

Toothless hippie fucks.

You know, several years back, when I saw Tortoise (at their peak of fame) play the most tedious show I'd ever seen, without a spark of energy or personality, I thought about the music scene and realized we were in for brutal times. Iron & Wine is like Dan Fogelberg mixed with something even worse (three years ago, people got upset when I said this. Now look! They're on the "Twilight" soundtrack!) A whole bunch of bands are like the Eagles. It's sad, really.

heh I love the lyrics of White Winter Hymnal, though

I loved Iron + Wine live.

(I hated Band of Horses, tho, who opened for him.)

Deedee you are a wise wise soul.

I stand by this:

ban Seattle

― Ringtone Tycoon (The Reverend), Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:14 AM Bookmark

This is confusing: I thought they sounded better than anyone usually sounds on that stage, and their harmonies on "Mykonos" came across really well.

I also feel weird that I keep repping for them on this thread despite not being hugely attached to their music -- it's just that they do strike me as ... I was going to say "competent," but it's well beyond that -- I think they're pretty great at what they do, even thought What They Do isn't usually likely to be something I fall head-over-heels in love with.

dude, competent would be otm for me. they're excellent singers, as someone noted upthread or maybe another thread. but that's all i can really get behind for these guys. there's certainly an audience for this, but as long as there are 100x more creative and visionary artists out there, i'm just not going to be among them, thanks

them = the aforementioned audience

So funny. I watched the SNL last night and had the exact opposite reaction after the first song. I turned to my wife and said "they probably sold so many fucking records after that." I thought it was really pretty, and different-sounding from most of the indie schlock on SNL.

I though "Mykonos" was really good on SNL. It made me want to try to listen to them again. My girlfriend said she had to avert her eyes because of the beards. I don't recall the second song at all, so it was either really boring or I had fallen asleep because of the general lameness of the show.

remember hataz, this band currently helps pay for Pissed Jeans and Obits. it's a living.

This is confusing: I thought they sounded better than anyone usually sounds on that stage, and their harmonies on "Mykonos" came across really well.

Agreed. I thought they sounded better than any live-on-TV band has in a long time. The only weird thing was the number of close-ups on every single member of the band. These guys aren't pretty enough to warrant so many close-ups. But I thought they turned in two really outstanding performances.

otm. listening to them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at them.

I feel exactly the same way about their album as I did about the Magic Numbers - nice melodies n all, but get more than one choooon plz. White Winter Hymnal is gorgeous, nothing else comes close.

There's something about the SNL space that has always sucked the life out of every performer, but wall-of-sound bands will probably be able to blast their way into listenability. Something more intricate just ends up sounding distant and disjointed. Could be just the way things are miked; maybe it sounds better if you're there. If you knew and liked those Fleet Foxes songs beforehand, you could follow along and provide the what was missing yourself, but if that was your first time listening to them, I can't imagine you'd expend any energy trying to get into them.

I disagree. The more intricate performances actually work better and seem more authentic on the small screen than the big loud bands. Think about Radiohead's performance of "The National Anthem" (10/4/00) compared to a wall-of-sound band like P.O.D. (4/20/02) who seem stifled by the room around them. Yet artists like Rickie Lee Jones (4/7/79) and Cowboy Junkies (2/18/89) seem set free.

And as noted with Kanye West, rap artists have always had a tough time on SNL. Think back to L.L. Cool J (10/24/87) trying to get everyone to put their hands in the air, resulting in five very awkward rows of white people, trying to get "with it" with their waves.

Are you guys really hating on Fleet Foxes looks?

well, their "look" is pretty damn deliberate. no one's making them grow those hideous beards and dress like they just stepped out of an ironic chow line. add this to the fact that they have zero stage presence or charisma and i don't find a fucking thing about them endearing.

ironic chow line

this dance craze is sweeping the nation btw

haha

In their defense, when I saw them in LA a few months back they had a ton of charisma and stage presence. They were really an entertaining band to watch. Every single guy with a mic--i.e., all but the guitarist--were super chatty throughout. It was a really wonderful show.

SNL, on the other hand... they just looked like they didn't want to fuck it up.

can hear my roommate listening in his bedroom and ive realized that idk if ive ever felt such a discrepancy between how much i enjoy a band when i hear them peripherally than when i'm actually trying to 'listen' to them

Wait, which do you like more?

peripherally

It is good housework music.

Listened to Yellow House the other day. Knocks this into a cocked-hat.

righto, so this 2CD version: worth it?

Or, too much of a.

Help me sick m, you'd know...

I didn't even know there was a 2CD version? What's on the second disk?

apparently, now it contains "everything that's been recorded and released up to date"

Which is damn good of them, I have to say. Moreso than some extra DVD of a short documentary of larking around, 1 video and a screensaver...

Looking at it, the second CD is the Sun Giant EP plus a cover of a trad song that Steeleye Span made more widely known (False Knight On The Road - interesting choice cos for me it's the Brit folk-rock influence and the whole wide-eyed nature of a lot of that music that differentiates Fleet Foxes from Grizzly Bear). Haven't actually heard the cover, but the EP was good with some stronger tracks than some of those that made the album proper. It is just more of the same though basically.

Aye, I'd say just pick up the EP; it's more consistent and upbeat than the album proper.

apparently the dude has a solo project called "white antelope". the name alone boils my blood

Dude, it's a unicorn thing, you wouldn't understand.

http://i.imgur.com/SnftV.jpg

I'm a big fan of these guys. Follow them very closely.

Therefore, I speculate after this last album and tour (and the subsequent happenings), that they're probably done for good. They will all probably continue to make music, but not as a group. I just hope Robin Pecknold has the good sense not to use the name Fleet Foxes anymore.

(unless, of course, I'm wrong and everyone's back on board for another album and tour)

I never understood the Beach Boys comparisons either. I have a theory that it all stems back to one Beach Boys song, to which a rather well-known Fleet Foxes song bares a strong resemblance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UzIuEC_N58

For other Fleet ephemera, I'm really pleased with Poor Moon thus far. Already have seen them live (blew me away — all brand new material). Not crazy about the J. Tillman/Father John Misty stuff, though I never really have been.

I have a theory that it all stems back to one Beach Boys song,

nah it's not just that. The breakdown in Quiet Houses (around 2:31) is a really blatant Smile/Pet Sounds pastiche - the plunking 1/4 piano, the ascending plucked guitar countermelody. There are a bunch of moments like this in their catalog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugxXqqGepCU

Right, but I meant without that one big significance, stuff like you pointed out on 'Quiet Houses' may have gone otherwise unnoticed.

That stuff is definitely there, but the similarities between Fleet Foxes and, say, CSN+Y or early America are much more prevalent.

yeah they're definitely more of a early 70s folkie thing to my ears too. And I think they arrange their melodies more like Simon & Garfunkel than the Beach Boys lol

I never understood the Beach Boys comparisons either. I have a theory that it all stems back to one Beach Boys song, to which a rather well-known Fleet Foxes song bares a strong resemblance.

I have a theory that many critics were trained by Pavlov himself to shout 'Beach Boys!' whenever a human voice harmonised with another human voice.

An aside: speaking of 60's group harmonies that were possibly influential on the Fleet boys — what about the Association?

turns out i like a fleet foxes song. who knew?

are you okay? you should sit down, elevate your legs, maybe take a sedative.

wait, sedative + fleet-foxes song might be a bad combination.

which song

I think there was one I liked, but then there was a grizzly bear song that sounded very similar to it but better and then I forgot about the fleet foxes song

Oh yeah it was this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afRPnsncupg

fleet foxes are okay. bon iver can be okay. sufjan stevens is okay. many indie bands that are pilloried endlessly are okay. if people can listen appreciatively to seals & crofts songs, they can hardly complain much about fleet foxes.

I think those are all examples of people that are pretty damned good at their craft, and all have a certain kind of tender yet grand style that can get very cloying in more than a small dose.

i think you can say that about a lot of pop stars, too.

and hey, i like beyonce a lot.

(in relatively small doses).

(apologies for the snark; by-product of late-night document review. i think you're exactly right)

Bon Iver and Fleet Foxes especially seem to have discovered this certain sound that is very pleasing and sweet and emotional but just over-relied on it to the point of it becoming maddening. It's like watching a movie where the Maurice Jarre theme is playing the whole time instead of just at key moments.

i get that. still, while it may be a reflection of my age or a desire to revisit my youth, if bon iver wants to record a dozen more albums that sound like toto, i'd be fine with it.

i remember that fleet foxes song (english house). it's good.

I don't think I've really listened to the Bon Iver album that sounds like toto. That sounds different than what I'm thinking of.

best example, iirc

From FB today:

For anyone who's curious, this is a short Fleet Foxes update - been a while! So, after the last round of touring, I decided to go back to school. I never got an undergraduate degree, and this felt like the right time to both see what that was about and to try something new after a while in the touring / recording lifestyle. I moved to New York and enrolled at Columbia, and I've mostly been doing that, but I'm working on songs and excited for whatever happens next musically, even if it's down the line. Hope all is well out there.

Best,
Robin

he should've stayed silent

I don't listen to this band but I think that's kind of rad, that he just went and got a degree

totally 100% agree with this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Next he's going to start making meta-art, acting in indies, doing installations, writing books, acting in soaps..

I still maintain that they're done. He will do music again in some capacity, but Fleet Foxes burned him out big time.

FB today

Hey

We have two shows happening next year that are ready to announce - the BBK Live festival in Bilbao, Spain, and the Vida Festival in Barcelona. Late June / early July. Many more to come worldwide, our third album is almost done and we're very... very... very excited

FF

sweet!

new one is very good

best band going, Pecknold is a visionary

History still out on that one but dude does harmonize well withhimsrkf

* well with himself

New songs so far don't exactly sound like a big evolution from the old stuff, but also I really liked the old stuff and I like the new songs too.

Dude has a very nice voice

I am very nonplussed by this new material. I'll still get the album and give it my undivided attention, as it's been one of my anticipated releases since Robin started to indicate he was doing music again, roughly sixteen months ago.

But, I dunno, all those accusations thrown at the last two albums of being needlessly complicated and too self-referential never made sense to me. But, unfortunately, it's starting to ring true with this new material. It just feels so overthought and too self-conscious. Helplessness Blues, in particular, had such a free-flowing, organic vibe to it, but so far this new stuff feels very stiff, contrived, and unnatural.

I really like the new album but I also think that ^^ is a fair observation\

i am all for Robin exploring whatever he wants to explore, but i'd be lying if i said i wouldn't play an album full of "Third of May"s over and over again until the end of time

was playing the newest amen dunes and my friend thought it was the new fleet foxes. wasn't interested in listening until he said that?

Robin is great at music imo and all the self-consciousness is a result of him growing up as a participant in the online environment, and once he became a public figure, seeing his role change from "having a voice" to "being a topic"

this is not on Spotify, is this not out yet?

This doesn't seem as revelatory as their earliest stiff bit yeah, it's still really good

Friday is the official release date.

Loved the debut for its creepy pastoral hauntingness but they completely lost me on the second with all the psychedelic excess

Saw him supporting Joanna Newsom last year and he was amazing. He played one or two new songs, some old stuff and a couple of covers, then did a duet with Newsom at the end of her set. The thing is his voice is just so flat out gorgeous that in general you want as few instruments as possible (or no instruments, where appropriate) in the way. Someone just needs to lock him in a room and stick a mic in front of him.

Well, going in for my first proper listening of the whole thing now and I'm feeling like my initial assessment a few days ago (at that point, just judging by the pre-release songs) was unfortunately a little too on the mark.

I mean, it's obviously very carefully crafted music and the overall wash of it all is, at first, rather pleasant. But, I don't know. It's so impenetrable and rambling. There are practically no melodies here, either. In the past, songs like 'Ragged Wood' or 'The Plains / Bitter Dance' were pretty dense, but at least there was something musical to latch onto. Crack-Up feels so monotone and un-dynamic by comparison.

It's definitely a very pretty, reverby album — it just all sounds like one long song. But, I don't know; maybe that was the point?

Also, this:

they completely lost me on the second with all the psychedelic excess

it just all sounds like one long song

Pecknold and FJM back on the same page eh

=/

i agree there are more drifty / wandering / less-melodic parts to this album, but "no" melodies? to me, Third of May, Fool's Errand, Crack-Up and maybe Cassius and Keep Time are all on par with the first two albums melodically

"Mearcstapa" on the new one is pretty great. I like the "How to Disappear Completely" bassline

Little detours every now and then are nice, like the minute of piano at the end of "Fools Errand"

http://www.stereogum.com/1954233/watch-phish-cover-fleet-foxes-at-msg/video/

How embarrassing for FF

embarrassed for everyone, really

there's a fair amount to like on the new one but pecknold needs to work with a lyricist or something.

I haven't listened to anything since the debut but my word, "Third of May" is gorgeous.

Sometimes I forget this band exists and then I hear them and think they’re great

Listened to the new one a bit more and it's grown on me. It took a really long time for the individual aspects of the songs to develop and sort out their own identities. But, after revisiting fairly regularly, I have no problem calling it a good record. Would still consider it easily the least substantial of their albums so far, though.

guitarist and fleet foxes kitchen sink guy skyler skjelset released another solo record today called back in heaven and it's decent modern dream pop stuff. kind of early fleet foxes musical backing with mbv style vocals. nothing life changing, but pretty as heck to be certain.

Was just wondering what rock these guys were hiding under

pecknold's been working on the next fleet foxes album all year. his instagram is pretty active with updates and teases. he was actually in europe recording when quarantine first hit and was initially told he would have to stay put, but found his way back to la, and now nyc.

the pieces of the new material he's teased have been very "orchestral" and dreamy. i'm excited for it, whenever it happens.

same. Robin's gone from overhyped (in others' opinion, not mine) to underrated genius ... in part because he doesn't work quickly and disappears for long stretches.

first two albums are all-timers.

i'm probably upthread saying the same thing a few years ago.

agreed. helplessness blues is still able to just wreck me in the right vibe. seeing that material live was unreal.

Third album is really good too, just requires some warming up.

Yeah, I'd say it's a good album after listening to it about a thousand times. I'd probably still rate it third out of their three albums so far.

agreed! (xpost)

i appreciate his efforts to try new stuff / stretch / not make the s/t over and over, etc.

not that i would reject an album full of "Third of May," of course

lol, not only did i just post that ^ *before* scrolling up and seeing this thing i posted three years ago:

i am all for Robin exploring whatever he wants to explore, but i'd be lying if i said i wouldn't play an album full of "Third of May"s over and over again until the end of time

― alpine static, Tuesday, June 13, 2017 2:01 PM (three years ago)

i also said *this* four hours ago, about something different:

i'm probably upthread saying the same thing a few years ago.

― alpine static, Friday, August 28, 2020 11:24 AM (four hours ago)

something to be said for consistency, man.

apparently fflp4 is titled shore and will be streamed in full tomorrow at fleetfoxes.co

ok, sure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

stooooooooked

WAIT pic.twitter.com/JnxD8tcoB9

— Brandon (@blgtylr) September 21, 2020

the actual cover is gorgeous. i'm too lazy to find it and post it, though.

streaming at 6:31 a.m. Pacific tomorrow, i guess to line up w/ the autumnal equinox?

i wanna get up and listen but then my wife would say "oh so you can get up early for Fleet Foxes, but not for work, to get the kids ready, to exercise, etc."

(and rightly so)

The whole thing is on Spotify now. It's really good.

Gave it a (very) distracted listen while working today and it sounded good indeed, but I'm looking forward to giving it some proper attention over the weekend (not to turn into a cliché but a long autumn walk seems like a perfect opportunity to properly enjoy it).

i don't think i've seen p4k do a tweet like this before ... although maybe there is no other example? or maybe i just missed it.

Best New Music x5

Read all the reviews here: https://t.co/zTOVfU0yMa pic.twitter.com/6c5LHOJl0K

— Pitchfork (@pitchfork) September 23, 2020

i don't disagree with the praise, but fuck narcissistic pfork assholes. yes, i'm on my high horse right now, but robin deserves a better audience than that.

who are pfork assholes?

I haven't heard anything of theirs since the first album mainly because the rave reviews all make their music sound incredibly unappealing

About a third of the new album has stood out for me so far--Crack-Up and Sun Giant are still the only two releases of theirs that I like front-to-back.

Aspects of the production and vocal performances on Crack-Up really reminded me of Phil Elverum fwiw, so it's a mildly interesting coincidence to me that Shore is out around the same time as Microphones in 2020.

Something about the drumming on this new one feels really different. Can't put my finger on why just yet. Maybe it's a rhythmic rather than a sonic thing. Like a few of the songs are more propulsive than I'm used to with FF material.

I've only really started coming round to The Crack-Up recently, always felt it was almost certainly good just a bit impenetrable.

This one is a lot more fresh faced feeling.

"I'm Not My Season" is very nice. did they always sound this much like Leonard Cohen? need to re listen to the old ones maybe.

This sounds a bit like Christian rock.

They've always given me church vibes. Maybe it's the "choral" aspect. Idk, never really bothered me honestly.

Singer’s voice is obviously really great but I also enjoy the rhythms and the band on something like “cradling mother”

Devil walk by?devil wakin by

this new one completely passed me by, don't remember a single thing about it

same...it's a lovely record, but it's like a breath of fresh air..doesn't last that long.

Hmm, the opposite for me. It felt nebulous in first listen but I find myself continuing to come back to it. I find it a very comforting album.

i really liked the crack-up, had some edges that were shorn down for this new one

I’ve been feeling the itch to return to that album, which I liked but don’t really remember aside from a few tracks. It seems to have gotten a critical reassessment already.

Still kind of baffled by the release strategy for Shore, still not out on vinyl/CD for another full month.

It’s one of those that I keep saving for the right time to play it but that time never seems to come

xp think it might be as simple as Robin wanted to released it on the autumn equinox (possibly in 2020, specifically / he has a thing with numbers, iirc) and vinyl is super delayed but he didn't want to push it back?

Sure, I know the equinox release strategy thing and production delays are surely a factor, but a six month lag seems to be on the extreme end.

yeah, i'm a little confused honestly. i got a message from the retailer telling me my pre-order (plain old black vinyl) has been delayed from mid-january to now mid-march, but i keep seeing people on instagram posting photos of their copies.

seems like it was about six months turnaround time for the latest fiona apple album from when it was on streaming to to when i could hold a copy in my hands.

it's the new model and i do not like it.

ha, yeah, not sure I like this much of a gap. No doubt COVID and weather issues all over the country won't be helping things out much on that front.

Looks like it came out in the EU/UK a few weeks ago, so maybe that's how you are seeing people with a copy? This is according to their official store for both CD and vinyl:

EU & UK Orders: February 5, 2021.
Everywhere Else: March 19, 2021.

this is nice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTwhDOha4-U

Lovely new single with big red machine “Phoenix”

I was a bit late to this album, but Shore is such a pleasure to listen to.

there is zero chance that i would have said this a year ago, but "i'm not my season" has defined itself as the easy highlight of shore for me. and the album overall is a lot more substantial than i gave it credit for. i was also jamming nothing but 80s and 90s r+b at the time, perhaps an influence?

anyway yeah, solid 4.5 mics in the source in 1996. great album.

That’s my favorite track too.

I love this album.

otm

My second favorite track might be "A Long Way Past the Past".

Back to Crack-Up for the past couple of days and have just now put on Shore for the first time in several months. Crack-Up makes a lot more sense (and sounds better) in retrospect, but wow Shore really is a damn fine record. I've always understood their records to be the kind that will most likely get better with time and Shore definitely feels like another one of those. He really is mining that late 60s Capitol studio vibe for all it's worth and I absolutely love it. Not sure if I'd consider it their single best album, but it's definitely in contention.

For sure, Shore is great
I can never revisit enough

Missed this. Wish there was more with the choir. The albums have become such huge productions that I've forgotten how good of a guitarist he is. Nothing revelatory, but still quite nice.