John Cale - Paris 1919 Poll

Gotta go with "Hanky Panky Nohow", although on any given day it could be almost any of the others.

Paris 1919 is my favourite here. Gorgeous album by the way.

"Hanky Panky Nohow," especially on a day like this.

Went with Half Past France (I prefer the live solo piano version of the title track)

Paris 1919 for me, but really, it could be any of half-a-dozen, depending on the day.

Andalucia for me! That song brings back so many exciting memories...

I've been totally obsessed with this album lately. Good timing. This is a really hard decision, but I guess that the title track just barely takes the cake.

I guess so.

This is one of those few albums where you have a new favorite song every day.

Yeah, "Child's Christmas", "Hanky Panky," "Andalucia", "Paris 1919", and "Half Past France" are pretty much interchangeably fantastic, and the rest are merely amazing.

Wow, what a coincidence..was just listening to this one in the car this morning, first time in a long long while. "Child's Christmas in Wales" is my favorite song, though topped by the acoustic piano version on Fragments of a Rainy Season.

I like "Andalucia", except for one little detail-- the 'Andalucia/when can I see ya' line always bugged me.

you're a ghost la la la la la la la la la

can anyone hear a difference between the remastered cd and the original?

This is a hard one because every song is genius, but "Endless Plain of Fortune" kills me everytime.

I love Sally Timms' cover of "Half Past France."

You know what's really been bothering me lately? I feel really bad about John Cale's wife sleeping with Kevin Ayers. I like Ayers records, the first 2 or 3 are mostly good to great, but I've been feeling/exploring Cale's 70s stuff a lot lately and I just feel really sad for John being cheated on. I guess he may have been a coked up asshole so who knows. Still, it just breaks my heart.

Tape Store, you seemed to have tapped into the collective unconscious of ilXor, as I was listening to this the other day as well! I was trying to pick a song to put on a friend's mix, but I gave up when I couldn't decide on just one. I doubt I'll fare any better with this poll, but I've at least it narrowed down to "Hanky Panky Nohow", "The Endless Plain of Fortune", "Paris 1919", and "Graham Greene". I'm leaning toward "Hank Panky".

xpost

Yes, the remastered CD sounds wonderful, and the bonus tracks are nice-to-haves, though not essential.

paris 1919

any of his other solo stuff as good as this?

Nothing I've heard is quite the same, Slow Dazzle is the only one I listen to as much, lots of people like Fear too.

I've only ever heard the remaster, so I think of A Burnt Out Affair as the closer. Graham Greene FTW though.

"Child's Christmas in Wales" for me, that melody is unbelievable

J0rdan: Fragments Of A Rainy Season = his best IMHO. Solo live/best of kinda thing.

I feel really bad about John Cale's wife sleeping with Kevin Ayers

Don't feel so bad, I think a lot of men's wives slept with Kevin Ayers in the 70s. Just ask Richard Branson.

This is one of my Top 10 favourite albums of all time.

The Island Years comp has some great stuff on it.

Why is there still no cd reissue of Helen of Troy? Totally crazy. I wanna know what Jonathan Richman with Phil Collins on drums sounds like.

"THE ENDLESS PLAIN..." because it will always remind me of driving into Alexanderplatz on a clear November night first time I went to Berlin. It was playing on the car stereo at the time. It fit perfectly with the view out the window.

xpost

"The Island Years" contains the entirety of "Fear", "Slow Dazzle", and "Helen of Troy"... so you should pick that up!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

title track

i'm listening to this now and wishing i voted for 'macbeth,' because of guitars.

I listened to this a few days ago and wished I'd voted for "Child's Christmas," if only for the opening piano riff following by the guitar.

regret

i also went w/ the title track, but it could have been anything

Andalucia or The Endless Plain of Fortune

Title track. No regrets.

god i love this album

any of his other solo stuff as good as this?

-- J0rdan S., Monday, March 24, 2008 7:52 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

Vintage Violence and Fear both rank with this one, though for different reasons. VV for the odd country vibe ("Charlemagne", plus "Gideon's Bible" has a signature killer chorus), Fear for the emotion ("You Know More Than I Know", the killer chorus award goes to "Buffalo Ballet"). Helen of Troy and Slow Dazzle are a step or two behind.

Voted "Paris" but flipped-flopped between that and "Hanky Panky."

any of his other solo stuff as good as this?

Only "Music For a New Society". Difficult to make albums as good as "Paris 1919"!

Half Past France

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Wow, the top five are pretty much exactly the order in which I would rank them.

Yeah, and by the same margin (tho I don't mean to denigrate the rest of the disc beyond the title track; the first five songs listed in the poll results are all top-shelf).

If I had to Pick Only One song ever, there's a good chance it would be the title track. It gets me every. single. time. While I'm generally a guitar kinda guy, there's something about certain piano riffs like this that make me weak in the knees, bring out the rare sentimental feeling in me. The other songs would be the Stones "We Love You", Bowie's "Oh You Pretty Things", These Immortal Souls "Marry Me (Lie)" and Nina Nastasia's "Treehouse Song".

"Half Past France" and "Hanky Panky" tie, but I mean I love Paris 1919. Too bad Little Feat didn't just become Cale's band, playing Cale's songs...altho Cale doing "Oh Atlanta" might've been fun.

as for the other stuff--I think Honi Soit is a good record; I love Fear and Slow Dazzle as much as I do 1919, and actually, Black Acetate was real good too.

it was my vote that pushed it over the top

Maybe I should give Black Acetate another try

Recording of Cale playing this album w/ orchestra this week http://proskynesis.blogspot.com/2010/03/john-cale-05032010-london.html
Haven't listened, so I dunno what the quality is like. Hope it's good!

that looks great!

yo it's not midnight yet over here, happy birthday john cale. thanks for the tunes

This is one of my favorite albums ever. Problem is, I can never find a record that does the trick (in a similar fashion) as this one. What other records have a vibe like this? Suggestions?

it's a good question -- dunno what the answer is though! I kinda think of Nick Drake's Bryter Later being sort of similar (and Cale played on it), but the sensibilty of the two songwriter's is wildly different.

Some of Peter Hammill's 70s solo albums maybe?

hm, i don't know those -- the van der graf generator guy?
I guess Scott Walker might sorta fit in.

Brian Eno's "Another Green World" - particularly Everything Merges With The Night

bill fay's first two albs - self-titled and TIME OF THE LAST PERSECUTION - share some of the same general tone

damn those bill fay records are great. good call.

Maybe Epic Soundtracks' RISE ABOVE?

John Martyn Bless the Weather?

I'm disappointed there's no option to vote for the picture on the cover. Andalucia's my favorite, though. Fact: if you are named Amanda, it's fun to pretend he's saying Amandalucia.

Slapp Happy's Acnalbasac Noom has the same laid-back uptight-intellectual vibe.

Maybe Epic Soundtracks' RISE ABOVE?
that's a good one, i love that record. Maybe not quite as lush/layered as Paris 1919, but I always though Epic and Cale's phrasing was kinda similar.

it might be sorta obv, but cale's discography has paris 1919-y songs scattered throughout

"riverbank", "the soul of carmen miranda", "china sea", "bamboo floor", "gideon's bible"..lots of stuff from 'vintage violence' actually

ooooh gideon's bible is my FAVORITE ALL TIME
not sure why

it might be sorta obv, but cale's discography has paris 1919-y songs scattered throughout
yeah, there are definitely a few songs (esp. on Vintage Violence and maybe a few on Music for a New Society), but I think what's special about Paris 1919 is that not even Cale is sure how he did it. I think I've read an interview where he admits that it's great, but he's not sure why or how it happened. I guess just the stars aligning or something.

Second the recommendation of Time of the Last Persecution by Bill Fay. A lot of interesting arrangements and instrumentation going on there. Compared to Paris 1919, tho, it is a decidedly bleaker/more dirge-y album.

I dunno, I think it can pretty much all be chalked up to the arrangements. yeah he was at some crazy songwriting peak, but imo he'd stay at that peak for 'fear' and 'slow dazzle'. I don't think the paris 1919 songs stand out when they're played w/ the rest of his material (like in 'fragments') - stripped of the fancy arrangements and they're still def among the best songs he's written but not in some mystical realm beyond his other good stuff.

xp

yeah, it's probably that weird combo of Little Feat + Cale's Euro sensibility + SoCal + orchestral arrangements that makes it so unique.

also: Antarctica Starts Here - 1

:(

Very well put, iatee. I agree.

i definitely hear a lot of paris 1919 in vintage violence but i got them both at the same time and had a huge cale period for a while (all way down to the haircut) so they're sort of inseparable to me in other ways as well. on the following records it seems like he just set out to rock first and write songs second.

Another good parallel would be Al Stewart's Past Present & Future, also released in 1973 (and to some extent the following year's Modern Times). The same considered, reflective songwriting, the personal refracted through the historical. Those who only know Stewart for "Year of the Cat" should check this album out, it might surprise you.

more paris 1919 v2 songs: 'sylvia said', 'dixieland and dixie'

if you wanna have the full experience

http://www.sallepleyel.fr/francais/evenement.aspx?id=11113

Bunch of awesome suggestions. Hey, this Al Stewart record is great! I was vaguely aware of him...

wish I was in paris :(

yeah no kidding ... the recording sounds sweet.

might go for the occasion

this live show is gorgeous. not sure about the guitar solo on "Child's Christmas" but most of it is close to perfect. Cale's voice sounds great these days ...

love the Femme Fatale/Rosegarden Funeral of Sores mix, which I guess he's been doing for a while now?

^^ yes, by the time the live set was over i was not digging all that guitar at all.

kinda digging the psych-y guitar on Half Past France tho. Kind of unexpected.

always kind of hated this album but I feel like shit right now and it sounds great

I'll probably love this album forever now or something

hopefully!

http://www.uclalive.org/calendar/event_detail.asp?id=15

Cale rocking the soul patch

would love to see paris 1919 live.

$15 UCLA students, damn that's a steal

yeah, no kidding. kind of cool -- i think the original Paris was recorded with the UCLA orchestra

Go see this. It was fantastic at the Royal Festival Hall. Some songs are improved by the new arrangements - Half Past France almost had me in tears.

wish I could :(

I am hoping he brings the live show to NYC. It would be crazy if he didn't right? RIGHT?

right

also be pretty surprising if there wasn't an album released out of these shows ... Royal Festival Hall bootleg is great.

i would have voted andalucia.

"Andalucia" is knocking me out lately, in particular the melody of the vocal on "Andalucia, when can I see you". I am leaving you in a day and a year too, or at least I hope so, I love you.

I'm sorta caught in this album right now: it's kinda songwriting-by-Baedeker (Paris, Barbary, Dunkirk, Andalucia, Dundee, Berlin) but that speaks to me, looking backward but not inward.

yeah i have no emotional connection to this album whatsoever but it's still one of my favorites of all time because it's so damn pretty

gonna go with "andalucia"

Efficiency efficiency they say

this is the best album ever

yes

Thirded

Half Past France knocking me out all over again today

this is the best album ever

yes

would've been 'andalucia' for me

"there's a law for everything / for elephants that sing to keep / the cows that agriculture won't allow"

Cover art has always helped support the atmosphere of this record for me -- the arch Euro feel, the orchestral sweep, the pastoral elements.

s clover otm

always heard it as "elephants that sing to feed" imho iirc

I love you

"Macbeth" sucks though

this (like a lot of Cale's albums tbh) strikes me still as about 2 great songs and a bunch of interesting ones

I agree. He's an A- artist, i.e. at least two tracks with fascinating arrangements and lyrics that don't cohere.

"endless plain of fortune", imo.

could have sworn the amazing I Keep A Close Watch.. was on this.

More like 4 great songs per album IMO. Absolutely hate at least 1 song per album though.

At least it runs a modest 30 minutes or so. These days there are 78 min monsters with only two or three good tracks. But I pretty much love everything on this one and "Fear" (esp. the latter's ballads!). After that he descends into a description in line with Aero's.

xxp now THAT song i think is extraordinary, emotion breaking through his archness. "big white cloud" with those blown speakers breaks through that wall as well.

slow dazzle is really consistent, imo, it's that dumb long track with eno at the end that sucks.

for me the thing is that the best ones on any given Cale album tend to be among the best songs you'll hear that year. British Passport is not a spectacular album, but "Dead or Alive" is a monolithic fucking TUNE. Artificial Intelligence doesn't cohere at all, but fuckin' A, "Dying on the Vine"? I'd shave several years off the end of my life to write a song that good.

aero: I prefer this version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFYJdW3xDg

the Fragments of a Rainy Season version of Close Watch is the definitive one for me

Christ that lyric is seamless. Seamless.

Wrote on "Macbeth" just now:

http://thisiheard.blogspot.com/2013/07/john-cale-macbeth-1973.html

(Sorry, that post was a little unclear. I think I fixed it OK.)

I used to feel the same way but recently started picking up his back catalog an album at a time as i come across them and, damn, i fall more under his spell as I take in each album as an entire work. his debut album, which i always just sort've liked, has really grabbed me. the same thing happened with "Honi Soit" and "Music For A New Society" last year. I'm on the lookout for 1919 next.

The idea that a you've listened to Honi Soit and Music/Society and not 1919 is amazing to me, you are in for an amazing time.

iirc from Cale bio, 1919 was the only album he wrote entirely pre-studio? Anyway it worked and I wish he'd done more starchy shirt records

i don't remember if we've talked about this video on ilx yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWvIgX_Ojk

just such an athletic, immersed performer

such a coked-out, out of shape performer

that's the other interpretation, sure.

description not criticism

I saw him do "Heartbreak Hotel" I think three times between '84-'86 - it was a staple of the set, the wigged-out climax of the keyboard section. I was really into dope at the time, speed and heroin and coke in their seasons w/me, but my read on Cale was always that he was taking advantage of the good early-days black tar heroin that was around, not the coke. He didn't talk a lot between songs: can you even imagine being all coked up and not talking much? C'mon, now. Plenty of people make great records on coke but I cannot for the life of me imagine a live performance on that stuff that didn't feature numerous long soliloquies between songs.

its the deliberateness of his wigged-out chaos that always gets me -- this dedication to an idea of performance.

Thread just took a dark turn.

Cale's recollection, for what it is worth, is that it was the coke that done him wrong. Copious, copious quantities. Maybe he was stupefied?

Goes without saying, but the guitar solo in "Gun" is probably the best place to simultaneously recognize the genius of Manzanera and Eno, and hear what it really means when a musician collides with a non-musician.

Cale's recollection, for what it is worth, is that it was the coke that done him wrong. Copious, copious quantities. Maybe he was stupefied?

yeah honestly I have probably never done it in the quantities that touring rock dudes in the 80s did. also one of these shows was at Fender's, where, credible legend has it, you'd go to get your pay at the end of the night and the owner would say "umm, there isn't really any money, can I pay you in coke? it's that or nothing really"

slow dazzle is really consistent, imo, it's that dumb long track with eno at the end that sucks.

"jeweller" is hilarious imo

this (like a lot of Cale's albums tbh) strikes me still as about 2 great songs and a bunch of interesting ones

disagree when considering this album (the only songs i wouldn't consider "great" here are "macbeth" (which is fun) and "antarctica starts here" (and even "antarctica" has that heartbreaking fanfare at the end which i could maybe chalk up to "interesting")) and fear but i guess i agree with it for the rest of his catalogue

"antarctica" is also probably my favorite lyric of his

I must confess I think Cale is one of the duddest rocker's around, his riffs are sluggish and his voice is hectoring. And I don't think he does "performance" very well

I hear that happening on Helen of Troy already.

I never had heard "Helen of Troy" but was super excited to listen to it, reading Christgau say that his cover of "Pablo Picasso" was Cale at "his mad best", and was really disappointed! to hear that it was prim, rehearsed, sluggish, annoyed, zero-fun music. My problem with Cale is that when he's bad, he's literally The Worst

Brad OTM re: this and Fear though, two nearly perfect albums

I must confess I think Cale is one of the duddest rocker's around

OTM, he has a 70s intellectual's need to attempt rock but his heart's not in it

a nearly perfect album = Wrong Way Up.

There is a weird thing that I feel when I listen to Cale, esp. "Pablo Picasso" and his cover of "Frozen Warnings" at the end of Nico Icon. On one hand it's like "he produced these records so he must have greater insight into the inner workings of J Richman and N Pfaffgen that I do" but on the other hand it seems like he's missing the point, he doesn't get it. He's got that song "Hey Ray" which is straight up Lou Reed but misses the mark so spectacularly. I dunno, I feel like there is something in his ear that hears things differently than my ears

xp Alfred otmfm

Man, you should hear "Hey Ray" is is so bad :( He plays it at all his shows. I'm feeling kind of bad getting so critical about a musician I adore.

really all I've needed of Cale are Paris 1919, Wrong Way Up and The Island Years.

no vintage violence? i just listened to "gideon's bible" and it helped me not feel so blue about the current state of john cale.
i feel bad that his chosen profession has wound up being so hard on him, like football players who get dementia at 40 or w/e

really all I've needed of Cale are Paris 1919, Wrong Way Up and The Island Years.

And I need them a lot!

people always bored me anyway

i think pretty much everything the guy did in the 70s is great, and most everything he did in the 80s is worth hearing anyway. don't sleep on church of anthrax and academy in peril.

"Helen of Troy" is def. the worst of the early Cale albums

is the Eno-Dylan Thomas project worth a listen?

i've always preferred the couple of songs from that on fragments of a rainy season to anything from the album proper.

& i'll agree that helen of troy is the weakest island years LP, but it's still pretty great. "china sea" is one of cale's most wonderful tunes (typically nasty lyrics though)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZBxy6KpNj0
music is almost like something off of The Beach Boys Love You.

Cale is the best example of a man getting more attractive as he ages

not a fan of the production on Helen of Troy, but we have songs like "Cable Hogue" "I Keep a Close Watch" and "Leaving It Up To You".

I agree on the hit-or-missness, but I think that's in part just because the good songs are really really good, and also I remember them more since I tend to listen to live stuff more than the original albums. Words for the Dying is uniformly amazing though.

90s and 2000s Cale is really consistent too, I think, maybe just with fewer huge highlights.

he really did have this plodding goofy rock sound circa Helen of Troy. But I think that's well gone by the Sabotage/Live stuff. I agree and disagree with the "70s intellectual's need to attempt rock" -- I mean its clear he's playing at and performing rock as much as just "rocking" but i don't think that's the same as just 'attempting rock' -- he's examining it, using it. But the extent that it has good results in part has to do with the climate he's in, the things that he's grabbing, emulating, repurposing.

He made better albums than Lou Reed in the seventies but Lou caught up and surpassed him after 1982.

no way. the last great lou album was 1980's Growing Up in Public

You mean Mistrial isn't classic?

at this point, i'm comfortable saying it's a tie between lou and john in solo career competition (any decade).
though i might be tempted to say that moe put out the best solo albums of the 80s.

I would also argue that Music For a New Society is better than anything else either of them did in the 80s.

i was gonna celebrate music for a new society with this album and fear upthread but that's definitely an album full of "interesting" songs, meant to be broken, plus "i keep a close watch"

i can only listen to music for a new society under very specific conditions

the only way I could endure the songs on MFANS was on Fragments.

"thoughtless kind" is devastating (on both new society and fragments).

is the Eno-Dylan Thomas project worth a listen?

It's OK, but it does have this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47E4CNWmZc

/Artificial Intelligence/ doesn't cohere at all, but fuckin' A, "Dying on the Vine"? I'd shave several years off the end of my life to write a song that good.

aero: I prefer this version:



cale's "do not go gentle" is devistating

Yeah, here's that live video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42JTU4vuyEg

Love his piano playing so much. Still sounding like early minimalism/Velvet Underground. This song sounds like something off Songs for Drella.

LOL how one youtube comment is "great song, great haircut!" Cale's had some of the best haircuts this side of Bryan Ferry.

Trying to decide if there's enough interest to run a vu solo careers poll.... any of you interested

that's a thread where I'd get annoyed but I'm probably up for it. feels like it must've been done though

we all know what aero's favorite VU solo album is
http://images1.mtv.com/shared/media/images/amg_covers/200/drf500/f514/f51483unkw1.jpg?width=300&height=300&enlarge=false&matte=true&matteColor=black&quality=0.85

Girl Yule Know It's True.

if its just like 'solo tracks from any/all vu vets' i'd be into it. don't want to vote directly lou vs. john vs. mo etc.

I'm talking about a tracks poll. We've def done a straight "who had the best solo career" poll

Yes any and all vets tracks. Including nico, guest spots, collabs etc

hey look what doug yule's doing now: http://www.reddogseattle.com/band/

isn't tommy ramone a bluegrass guy now too?

"Doug grew up on the East Coast playing and singing from an early age. In 1968, standing on the wrong street corner, he was captured by The Velvet Underground, a cult rock band, and served a three to five year sentence. On his release he continued his ill advised flirtation with rock and roll for another four or five years, finally retiring to do manual labor. On his fiftieth birthday he received a fiddle and three lessons from a rival and became addicted to the traditional music of the American Southeast. This dependency continues unabated today and finds a creative outlet in RedDog. When he's not kneed-up with RedDog playing tunes, Doug builds violins, violas, and (if his granddaughter keeps practicing) cellos. His instruments can be seen at Lasley & Russ' Violin Shop."

Christ that lyric is seamless. Seamless.

And not written by Cale!

dying on the vine? its credited to him afaik.

I never had heard "Helen of Troy" but was super excited to listen to it, reading Christgau say that his cover of "Pablo Picasso" was Cale at "his mad best", and was really disappointed! to hear that it was prim, rehearsed, sluggish, annoyed, zero-fun music.

dying on the vine? its credited to him afaik.

Which is by Cale.

I thought Larry Sloman wrote the lyrics to "Dying on the Vine," Cale the music....

Yes, but he was talking about Close Watch.

/slow dazzle is really consistent, imo, it's that dumb long track with eno at the end that sucks./

"jeweller" is hilarious imo

And at one a.m. he awoke from a dream
And after fumbling his way in the obsolescent light of his room
He peered into the rusty veins of his mirror
And lifted away the patch, what he saw astonished him

Where once was tremulous tissue and membrane
Was now a follicle and perfectly formed vagina with vulva
Overgrown and mysterious, unrevealing and still to the untrained eye

I hate when that happens.

Oops yeah, I was skimming & thought he was still talking about DOTV. I'd be quite curious to know how that came about, I've never read anything about the making of artificial intelligence. Cale is a pretty distinctive songwriter, how did he end up handing over lyric duties for an entire album to some random writer guy?

"thoughtless kind" is devastating (on both new society and fragments).

― tylerw, Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Love the version from the old South Bank Show Velvets doc - the T-Shirt, the strange performance style, the ending:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndE-nvwTuoI

Circling back to Honi Soit for a moment...I'm a big fan of "Fighter Pilot" -- I have a soft spot for shouty girls in the bgd. "Wilson Joliet" is pretty great too.

how did he end up handing over lyric duties for an entire album to some random writer guy?

Not just some random writer guy, no less! This dude later co-wrote both of Howard Stern's books, David Blane's book and the Anthony Kiedis memoir, and is old-school pals/peers of Kinky Friedman and Dylan.

http://www.ratso.org/

"thoughtless kind" is devastating (on both new society and fragments).

Uh and then there's "Chinese Envoy". That destroys me every time that song. Even though the words are sort of nonsensical but then he pulled off the same trick on most of "Paris 1919", y'know, managing to make songs that are lyrically obscure and dense yet incredibly emotional.

yeah whenever i read cale's lyrics a lot of them seem pretty impenetrable on the page, but he makes 'em really resonate. i think he's said that since he grew up speaking welsh, he uses english more as a textural thing...

I don't know if he's ever admitted it but I think Eno's songwriting owes a lot to John Cale, or there are a lot of unintended similarities, something like "Half Past France" on this album reminds me a lot of Eno. Oh, and "Cleo" on "Vintage Violence" always reminds me of "Sound and Vision"!

JC talks about performing this album live , among other things, here: http://www.salon.com/2012/10/11/john_cale_every_time_i_hear_that_record_its_like_listening_to_it_through_gauze/

Also reposting live version of "Dying on the VIne" with Ollie Halsall from other John Cale thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et-Gk11mvqM

no I meant DOTV was seamless and did not know it was not by Cale!!

oh also I didn't realize we were talking about a tracks poll, I don't do ballot stuff I'm not up for taking poll participation any further than clickin' buttons

I never liked "Dying On The Vine", it sounded like somebody trying to photocopy every song on Paris 1919 at once

I've never heard that Wyatt Eno Nico Cale live record. Or the other live one, Fragments of a Rainy Season. Any good?

"Fragments" is essential IMO; almost all of his vocal performances on that album equal or surpass the studio versions.

oh yeah? I'll give it a listen this afternoon!

Fragments and the Rockpalast live record from a few years ago are essential. I really like the Circus live album as well.

I never liked "Dying On The Vine", it sounded like somebody trying to photocopy every song on Paris 1919 at once

ok this is contrarianism at its worst you flamboyant goon tie wearer. "Dying" is like the songs on P1919 written by a guy with more road under him who can now do that sort of thing better

Except it was written by Larry Sloman in a pale imitation of John Cale's Paris 1919 period, my man, accuse me of contrarianism all you want but it might just be that I have a different opinion than u

"Chasing ghosts and I don't like it" obv a rip on the ghost chasing of Paris 1919's title track, and afaik Cale to that point had never settled for an opening line with an ending as weak as "I don't like it"
Reference to random place ("Acapulco") check
Reference to a random arty celeb ("William Burroughs") check
"Living my life like a Hollywood"? is there some precedent for this shitty simile? I get it, "Hollywood and Vine" but surely Sloman could've set it up better

my problem with the studio version is precisely because the synth slog calls attention to every blech line

Hey, watch it, I'm posting here.

I want to start a Larry Sloman memorial thread where we write lyrics in the style of x but completely miss the point

Cordoba is where it's at

"Chasing ghosts and I don't like it" obv a rip onn improvement on the ghost chasing of Paris 1919's title track

idk man I'll take the imitation here - at least it doesn't have an "Andalucia/when will I see ya" rhyme and instead has the masterstroke of bitter sarcasm "you can bring all your friends along for protection/it's always nice to have them hanging around." didn't know you were an auterist about this kind thing fg! Cale as lyricist has always been two ok lines for every great one anyway, maybe old Larry should have hung around a little longer

B-b-but where has the iron drum gone?

hidden amongst the cows that agriculture won't allow

there's no possible improvement upon claiming ghosts with an iron drum lalalalalalalalala

I've got one minor complaint about Fragments: Cale settles for percussive playing; he doesn't develop the melodies.

Maybe I'm just more into the guy with a Welsh accent singing archly about Europe than I am into the guy with the Welsh accent singing sarcastically about L.A. :)

I loooooove "Andalucia / when can I see ya" p.s., what a perfect little doo-wop detail, this guy's lyrics are the best when he can be bothered. And I have a hard time believing a human wrote "Paris 1919" title track sometimes, break that song down and it is utterly utterly perfect, in message and setting and the right balance of menace and cuteness.

love fragments so much, if we did a live albums poll it would definitely make my ballot and genuinely annoyed that thing isn't on spotify esp if that means it's out of print. am i wrong or is that also kinda ground zero for cohen's 'hallelujah' becoming a standard? i know buckley and then american idol and shrek are the stages it went thru to its weird status but cale's version was all over college radio and that cohen album was only available on import in the states.

I first heard Cale's "Hallelujah" on the Basquiat soundtrack, and it was the first time I heard it on college radio.

kinda wish cmj chart stats were easier to find (though tbh i've never tried, i just know they're not automatically listed in wikipedia entries like billboard data usually is). sketchy as hell and way less accurate than even normal presoundscan charts but at the very least a good picture of what was being promoted heavily to college radio.

Cale settles for percussive playing

I don't know the whole album, but that's what I was getting at with regard to what I LIKE about that clip of "Do Not Go Gentle" - that it has that early minimalism sound.

am i wrong or is that also kinda ground zero for cohen's 'hallelujah' becoming a standard?

the first time I heard "Hallelujah" was Cale doing it solo live at Royce Hall circa '88 I think

I feel it must've made a mainstream appearance somewhere else before Shrek. It is weird how long I knew who John Cale was but didn't know his solo music aside from that song

Cale chose the verses (out of 44 or so) that we now know as that song

a guy i know i always end up talking about eno and cale w/ at parties mentioned seeing cale solo a few years back and the show was no smoking (before that was super common and before there were indoor smoking bans in athens) and some guy near him lit up a cigarette and almost immediately cale stopped playing and did this deathstare at the guy and let out this gutteral welsh "PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUUUUUUT!", guy said it was mindblowingly terrifying.

the wikipedia article on this turns out to be really good http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallelujah_(Leonard_Cohen_song)

some guy near him lit up a cigarette and almost immediately cale stopped playing and did this deathstare at the guy and let out this gutteral welsh "PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUUUUUUT!"

hopefully while singing the last part of "Guts"

I've got one minor complaint about /Fragments/: Cale settles for percussive playing; he doesn't develop the melodies.

whenever i read cale's lyrics a lot of them seem pretty impenetrable on the page, but he makes 'em really resonate

Yeah his best lyrics for me seems like dreams where the details and signifiers remain obscure but the general feeling pretty eloquent.

Was thrilled when Fragments was released, after having seen Cale play with Chris Spedding in 87 and solo in 88 and having loved the stripped down versions.

Also, Cale's percussive piano playing seems to have had a huge influence on Peter Jefferies.

am i wrong or is that also kinda ground zero for cohen's 'hallelujah' becoming a standard?

Worth keeping in mind that the Cohen song really isn't that old. "Various Positions" was, what, 1984, 1985? So Cale started covering it only a few years later, and it appeared on "I'm Your Fan," which was itself sort of a ground zero of hipster Cohen reappreciation. Obviously there is a book out about this now, too, but "Shrek" (the film) featured the Cale version, though the soundtrack featured Rufus Wainwright. Buckley's version was a big deal, but I want to say only belatedly.

buckley used cale's arrangement too. cale's version is really the only version for me. don't care if it's overexposed at this point. i think it's kind of a miss that cale and cohen have never worked together, seems like it might be a good match. and they probably crossed paths back in the 60s, cohen was super into nico early on, i think.

I bet he was, if you catch my drift.

he remembers her well at the chelsea hotel if you know what i'm saying

they had sex if you grok my meaning

to be serious tho, cohen was a big fan of nico's music around the time of chelsea girl, it seems, going to all her shows etc. never romantically involved.

One woman who resisted his charms was Nico, whom he met at Andy Warhol's club in 1966. "The most beautiful woman I'd ever seen." She said she preferred younger men, but introduced him to Lou Reed, who had some of his books. "We told each other how good we were."

nico was probably like "whooooo eees thees canadian dork?"

lol that reminds me that when cohen met iggy pop he showed iggy this personal ad from a woman looking for a man with "the passion of iggy pop and the sensitivity of leonard cohen" and cohen told iggy "we should find this girl and fuck her!"

haha! all these old rock guys should just have a talk show where they reminisce about girls. filmed live in the basement of the chelsea hotel.

haha and bringing it back to 'hallelujah' (and tangentially john cale) apparently dylan recognized its greatness pretty early and covered it on tour in 1988. and of course this old story:
That ["Hallelujah"] was a song that took me [Leonard Cohen] a long time to write. Dylan and I were having coffee the day after his concert in Paris a few years ago and he was doing that song in concert. And he asked me how long it took to write it. And I told him a couple of years. I lied actually. It was more than a couple of years.

Then I praise a song of his, “I and I,” and asked him how long it had taken and he said, “Fifteen minutes.”

lol yeah that's classic.

dylan's hallelujah seems like a great idea on paper, but the versions i've heard have been not amazing.

Ie fucking terrible

Cale's version is the only one for me; I can't stomach Cohen's.

Cohen owns it live; otherwise yeah, cale or nothing.

um guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fN6CtukfEY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY3qw6mD_W8

otm

well this is just wonderful -

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDQyvLtAaQM

I can't see these, are you sharing crappy hallelujah covers

If so: no bono no, um

just no

what i look like kd lang to you?

Holy shit, Cohen is almost 80!

Anyway, back to Cale's playing, which on "Darling I Need You" on Fragments renders the version definitive.

new cale single -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-yJuwkWsTo&feature=youtu.be

Not bad. Takes a while to get going but when it does it's fun.

yeah i had the same thought. dunno, still conflicted over that last album. some cool stuff alongside some really not cool stuff.

The adventures of nooky wooky or w/e? I listened to it once but never went back to it. Funny cause I think 5 songs & hobosapien are really good, and liked some of black acetate. I should listen again.

some cool stuff alongside some really not cool stuff.

i.e. it's a John Cale album

New single sounds like a John Maus b-side. I like it.

I think Nookie Wood is pretty great actually.

me too. And the EP before it.

In the wake of Lou Reed's death, I've finally, after years of inexplicable passivity, gotten around to listening to this album. And it's really, really amazing.

I get a wintry feel from it for some reason, but it doesn't feel cold. Might be the season.

<3

I listened to Hanky Panky Nohow yesterday after some JWs came to my door with a pamphlet illustrating that the dead are not actually dead. Nothing frightens me more!

This album is beautiful. I really love his voice on it too.

such a wonderful album.
figured out how to play "Antarctica Starts Here" recently on piano (not that it's super difficult or anything). i think i've annoyed my wife with playing it so much, but the chords are just so nice.

and godammit that first verse

The paranoid great movie queen
Sits idly fully armed
The powder and mascara there
A warning light for charm
We see her every movie night
The strong against the weak
The lines come out and struggle with
The empty voice that speaks

though i always heard "warning light for John" -- which I don't know, might be sort of weird, but I thought it was Cale inserting himself into the narrative or something.

And I love the fact that half of fucking Little Feet plays on it.

Used to only listen to Paris 1919 but ilx has convinced me to start listening to the threefer called The Island Years.

Wow I didn't know a single one of those lyrics tyler just posted, all I ever heard was beautiful Welsh-inflected mumbling.

you're a ghost la la la la la la la la la

― ciderpress, Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:01 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

This album is beautiful. I really love his voice on it too.

Yes, he's so Welsh!

Best twee album ever

I'll never stop loving a line like "I suppose I'm glad I'm on this train - and it's long"

It's not even near the best song on this album, but I really enjoy Macbeth as an outlier. It doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the songs, but it's so enjoyable nevertheless. Where's the love?

the answer lies within the question

?love the where is

there's not much love because "It's not even near the best song on this album" and "It doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the songs"

yes! of course!

except i was trying to elicit responses based on its difference from the rest of the tracks. for example: what do you think?

It's a great glam rock boogie song and it does kinda disrupt the flow, I agree, but without it the album would be too short/slow/samey, perhaps?

Wrote on "Macbeth" last year:

http://thisiheard.blogspot.com/2013/07/john-cale-macbeth-1973.html

hate Macbeth and Graham Greene

Graham Greene has fun lyrics even if it's not JC's best song.

I finally picked up a copy of this - the reissue with the demos and works-in-progress. I quite like peaking behind the curtain, I find it fascinating to hear how some artists conceptualize their songs hole and others take an amazing leap i the studio.

I quite like peaking behind the curtain

triggering acid flashbacks here

This album is so good I can't stand it

The album bends the very fabric of space and time by running barely more than 30 minutes yet never feeling short.

The anaesthetic wearing off

he should do something special in Paris 2020

haha that would be fun

love this album, such a vibe

I am a John Cale fan and I certainly like Paris 1919 a lot, I really do - but it's not my favourite, it often surprises me that it seems to have a revered status. I do find about half of it utterly brilliant, but that's a relatively short set. Title track, Endless Plain, Hanky Panky - gorgeous! But Graham Greene can get on my nerves, I'm not too fond of Macbeth and I find a couple of other tracks nice enough but not classics.
The Islands triology albums are just as good as Paris, I think.

A Cale classic I can fully get behind is Music For A New Society - astonishing. Conversely, I have a very high opinion of Caribbean Sunset as well (really hoping for a CD re-release of that one). Words For The Dying is an odd favourite of mine too.

Valentijn OTM on all points. Caribbean Sunset is indeed criminally underrated

i love caribbean sunset too!

Oh, I listen to The Island Years set more than anything else.

I find a couple of other tracks nice enough but not classics.

half past france is a classic imo

this isn’t my favorite cale album either but it’s perfectly formed regardless imo

half Past France is my favorite on this but yeah there are a couple of out-of-place clunkers on it (Macbeth, Graham Greene)

macbeth rules wtf

those tracks are fun and i would like the album less without them, especially "graham"

chopping down the ppl
where they stand

Yes, Caribbean Sunset rulez!!! Hungry For Love is my jam!!!!!

he should do something special in Paris 2020

The Endless Plain Of Fortune is my pick these days... opening track forever, tho

Down in Transvaal
Where Crocodiles and men fight on

"Graham Greene" might be my favourite John Cale lyric! He shoots for "Randy Newman, but English" and succeeds spectacularly, it's such a delicate yet savage song.

"Macbeth" isn't just out-of-place, it's also a bad song on an otherwise perfect album

this was being discussed on boring ass steve hoffman forums too. and ironically I'd been listening to it (and lots of Cale) a ton over the past few months. Certainly top-tier Cale IMO but really I like almost all of his output that isn't Words for the Dying.

i like the way "macbeth" interrupts the mood — I kinda feel like every classic album should have one of those outliers.

Yes, Macbeth is awesome, it's like Glam Rock before Glam Rock existed.

"Randy Newman, but English"

I assume this is a deliberate mistake?

People I must tell you right now my favorite John Cale song is Ski Patrol.

Why? It's, like, not very good.

Yes, Macbeth is awesome, it's like Glam Rock before Glam Rock existed.

uh, glam rock definitely existed in 1973

Deliberate mistake.

Oh Tom D, Ski Patrol is such fun!

Fair enough, sounds like a feeble throwaway to me, I suppose I have to give him credit for writing a song about such an unlikely subject.

I still stick with the older warner archives remastering of this, could not get comfortable with the bonus tracks remaster at all

it is true that Macbeth breaks the autumnal quality therein, but man its hard for me to understand how anybody thinks its bad. That is one bumpin' ass beat by richie fuckin' hayward! He never did anything remotely like it again, did he?

in early 2013, I saw JC do the whole record at BAM, and it was pretty much a drag: the tunes were in different keys than the record (of course he can't sing like that anymore), wasn't played in sequence, it didn't seem like he was into it, and Macbeth in particular sounded weak.

which is to say, cale never did anything like that again

didn't know about that earlier remaster, Ilike the new one but now I'm intrigued xxpost

I mean I think it’s the first CD of it so maybe remasterIng is the wrong word to use. Neither version sounds great to me but older one is less bad. Would like to hear a good vinyl rip.

there are, perhaps, a single-digit number of records i like more than this one

had no idea that lowell george and richie hayward played on this album

I like the slow songs on here the best

One vote for "Antarctica Starts Here"? That is insane.

The expanded, remastered CD sounds great (although some listeners prefer at least some of the original; it's good to have both). And I love hearing the demos, rehearsals, alt. takes, outtakes----nothing against the orchestration, but so good to be there with the basic group---Wilton Felder of the (then or recently Jazz) Crusaders on bass with George and Hayward of Little Feat, Cale playing the hell out of his keyboards and some other instruments.
10. Burned Out Affair (outtake)
11. Child's Christmas In Wales (alternate version)
12. Hanky Panky Nowhow (drone mix)
13. The Endless Plain Of Fortune (alternate version)
14. Andalucia (alternate version)
15. Macbeth (rehearsal)
16. Paris 1919 (string mix)
17. Graham Greene (rehearsal)
18. Half Past France (alternate version)
19. Antarctica Starts Here (rehearsal)
20. Paris 1919 (piano mix)
21. Macbeth (different instrumental backing track) - HIDDEN TRACK

Knew about the Little Feat fellows but had forgotten about Felder, if I ever knew he was on this.

This is one of the few perfect albums

The new expanded reissue of this features a (badly needed) remaster so revelatory that it's like having a whole new relationship to one of my favorite records... stunning!

Interesting! Will have to check it out. I think I used to listen to this album on a home-made cassette tape version and was fine with that.

What’s the big difference? More clarity?

What Davey D says about sound quality makes it worth my checking out, but xpost prev reissue shouldn't be skipped re bonus tracks.
from Domino's page on this 2024 re-reissue (also mentions 2024 The Academy In Peril)

1Child's Christmas in Wales (Remastered)
2Hanky Panky Nohow (Remastered)
3The Endless Plain of Fortune (Remastered)
4Andalucia (Remastered)
5Macbeth (Remastered)
6Paris 1919 (Remastered)
7Graham Greene (Remastered)
8Half Past France (Remastered)
9Antarctica Starts Here (Remastered)
10I Must Not Sniff Cocaine (Remastered)
11Hanky Panky Nohow (Drone Mix) (Remastered)
12Child's Christmas in Wales (Rehearsal 1) (Remastered)
13Half Past France (Intro Chat) (Remastered)
14Macbeth (Take 11) (Remastered)
15Hanky Panky Nohow (Guitar Mix) (Remastered)
16Fever Dream 2024: You're a Ghost

Thank you for bumping this thread and reminding me about this album. It was exactly what I wanted to listen to while quilting today.

I also listened to this just yesterday! It felt like a snuggly blanket.

the previous remaster of this was pretty brickwalled iirc. very excited to listen

Had a Spotify listen, and yes, wow, lots of detail that made it feel fresh to me. I hear Little Feat more in the sparkle and slide of the guitars, and the Americana feel becomes a more vivid a contrast to Cale's Europondering. Also, had it been recorded in 1919, this remaster would have hit in 1970.

xp I had no prob w audio of *expanded* prev reissue---will rip its exclusive bonus tracks in with this whole latest thing.

my vinyl copy of this is fucking trashed, will have to pick up a new one

it is very very funny to hear multiple instances of Johnny Boy blowing rails on the extras on this deluxe reissue

lol yeah incredible that they left that stuff in. its hilarious that this is such a cozy comfort album when in the studio he was apparently grinding his teeth down to nubs

so revelatory that it's like having a whole new relationship to one of my favorite records

Just gave it a listen and ... yeah. Wow. Who cleaned this up? Is it going to be revealed that some AI did it?

I believe all credit is due to the mastering job by Heba Kadry. It’s rare that a remaster can be this revelatory. Almost sound like a remix… but it isn’t!

I just picked up a promo copy of this at a record store this morning

https://www.discogs.com/release/1487184-John-Cale-Paris-1919

it is very very funny to hear multiple instances of Johnny Boy blowing rails on the extras on this deluxe reissue

wait can you elaborate on this

10 I Must Not Sniff Cocaine (Remastered)

wow.

the warm blanket that was over this album is now gone - the only other album I can think of that had something this drastic is Skepticism's Stormcrowfleet.

I would agree that the warm blanket is gone, maybe I miss that blanket? It's very clear, for sure.

yeah, that's indeed the thing: do I want this clarity? I,m keeping my old CD for now, I'll see if I ever choose

Kinda like the Replacements "Tim" remaster: once you're used to the murk/muddy, is better really better? In this case, the songs are so lovely that I think the warm blanket vibe is still there for me.

Holy shit this remaster is amazing— does incredible favours for the placement of “Macbeth”, which I’m used to skipping. This is the best album

I've only known this on LP, and listening to samples of the remaster online, I don't hear a huge change except maybe on the up-tempo tracks, where the percussion seems crisper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9IKnVVRsmk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDkTSPzciko

it's like he's now facing in our direction when he's singing

XXXpost

OTM re: MacBeth… just sounded like a compressed dark mess before and now it breathes and rocks so much harder!

Re: Replacements “Tim”… that was a remix, and a fairly drastic one. This is just a remaster, so the mixes remain the same.

Re: Replacements “Tim”… that was a remix, and a fairly drastic one. This is just a remaster, so the mixes remain the same.

The LP mastering is somewhere in the middle of those two examples, in terms of clarity and range.

yeah doesn't strike me as radical on first listen. but it sounds good! what a great album.

Same. Hearing some Wilton Felder bass runs I never noticed before, for example.

The remastering is indeed a revelation.

Hanky Panky Nohow has always been my favorite on this. And the Drone Mix of that is incredible.

Also really enjoyed the last track, Fever Dream. I get why some people may not care for his 21st century pomo MPC reinterpretations of his earlier work. But they feel entirely in keeping with Cale’s career arc.

One other thing that occurred to me is that the strings on the Hanky Panky Nohow Drone Mix feel very influential on Nell Catchpole’s string arrangements for Eno’s 90s-00s work. Likely more something that comes from Wrong Way Up where I believe the three of them worked together. But the similarities with the stacked violas here—both the Tony Conrad-y textures but also the harmonic movement and swelling—are clear.

Was that Drone Mix released at the time?

No, the first we heard about it was on the 2006 2CD version where it was one of the "previously unissued rehearsals, alternates and outtakes from the "Paris 1919" sessions." on the 2nd CD.

Weird how the two reissues differ so much on the outtakes disc.

Was that Drone Mix released at the time?

What a remarkable remaster. "The Endless Plane Of Fortune" sounds even more glorious, bombastic and melancholy.

*Plain (dammit)

There's a law for everything
And for elephants that sing to keep
The cows that agriculture won't allow