So, What's Your Opinion of Trance?

(...who isn't someone who finds this via googling 6 mos. later.)

also, when did this stuff conquer america?! am i the only person to have seen the ads for "that trance mix" (yes, that's the title) on late nite tv? if you go into any borders (still, bafflingly, the only major chain retailer in america to stock a signifigant amount of dance music in my experience) it's almost 75% trance! (with the rest being given up to minstry of sound style stadium house, and a slim percentage for "other" where everything from mille plateaux to 2-step goes.)

Just Say No To Trance.

This is pretty much the definition of "soul", surely.

But then.... neither is hip hop, UK Garage, drum and bass, house, or straight up pop, all of which I enjoy.

The thing with trance - and pop-trance especially - is that complaining of how insultingly cheesy it is assumes that "insultingly cheesy" is automatically a bad thing. What I like about stuff by Fragma, ATB etc. is how it introduces cheese on every level. Not only are the melodies disgustingly insistent, but the textures, the production, everything is so swirly effervescent and blissful. Go out dancing with people who enjoy it and it suddenly seems amazing.

I didn't mean to lash out and piss anyone off. It's just that I tend to get a bit defensive when people start ganging up on "trance," as seems fashionable these days.

Personally, I've been addicted to trance ever since the Frankfurt days of '92-'93, and it hasn't bored me yet, because there has always been something new going on somewhere - the once pretty singular genre has mutated into so many strains that sound nothing like its origins (the cheesy Eurodance side, the UK Hardhouse and Hi-NRG side, Israeli goa/psytrance, German/Swiss-style hardtrance, Dutch uber-melodic trance, the trance/house hybrid Progressive, hard 'n dark techtrance, trance with breaks, electro/trance) that there's always something people can hate about it. But I suppose you want tune recommendations?

That's pretty daft conclusion, how would those people like techno (as in the Detroit definition) or house (as in the beefed-up-disco/Chicago definition) then? Those are far more repetitive than trance (note: I am a massive house and techno fan too), they're essentially loop/groove based rather than structured in an epic way. There's a lot of things that can be said against (some forms of) trance (formulaic/cheesy/unfunky/etc) but lack of variety and dynamics within the tunes isn't among them.

For me, trance really works best when it's more of a sinister, minor key thing rather than a barrage of happy eurodance riffs. As long as it's suitably dark, I don't really care in what form they choose to use, subtly melodic or banging hard, an euphoric rollercoaster ride or a slowly building, repetitive drone. And I'm not complaining at the moment, there are lots of those tracks around now, certainly compared to the '97-'00 years.

Techno makes your body the slave of the funky electronic rhythm through irresistable repetition, Trance submerges you in a huge warm bath of melody and euphoria.

It seems to me that lately there has been a lot of trance techno and less pure trance. Take, for instance, "Who Do You Love Now?" by Riva (with Dannii Minogue). Although that could be mistaken for trance, it's about 85% techno.

= UK Hardhouse, Hardtrance, Hardstyle (basically, the DJs that kiwi above lists). Especially the UK hardhouse producers are far too guilty of overusing that loud off-beat bass sound. It all works fine on a big soundsystem, but gets hugely annoying at home. I only hear the odd UK track over here so it's not that bad but I can imagine that the average Brit hates it with a passion by now, after years of Fergie/Lisa Lashes/etc on the radio.

"Who Do You Love Now?" by Riva

= progressive trance (lush, gentle, no big buildups and breakdowns). I wouldn't call it techno, at least not in the way it is stocked by vinyl shops or played by DJ's, but it *is* more in that direction in the sense that it is more of a looped, minimalist thing. If you're looking for more of this kind of stuff, Solid Sessions Janeiro (Pronti & Kalmani Mix), Sander Kleinenberg My Lexicon, Scott Bond vs Solar Stone 3rd Earth and Holden & Thompson Nothing (93 Returning Mix) are all well worth a look. That Riva track is still absolutely brilliant by the way, although I would have preferred it if they left it instrumental (it was first released as Stringer without vocals). And sadly, Riva have only produced carbon copies of that track since - what the hell is the matter with all those producers that seem to have only one soundbank?

I guess the reason why I call the Riva track 'trance techno' is because the rhythm is very techno with its hard percussion and handclaps, while the melody and washes are more trance in nature.

What I abhor in a lot of trance is the lack of originality when it comes to the rhythm side of things.. it just seems to take a back seat to the big buildups and godawful keyboard riffs. Stuff like that Riva track is just such a breath of fresh air... and I wish there was more of it.

And there's tons of quality progressive trance tunes around, the last two years have been great for this kind of stuff, now that big uplifting trance is much less popular than it was circa 2000. Which reminds me of a thought I had recently, in 1993 I was completely hooked on both trance and jungle, hung out in vinyl stores all day and what have you, but if somebody would've asked which genre would be the most exciting in ten years time, I would've said jungle. Funny how things go...I've completely given up on jungle/drum 'n bass years ago, while trance still manages to excite me every time I get a fresh batch of new tunes.

And c'mon, how is trance any more annoyingly repetitive than, say minimal techno?

However there is entrancing music that is very special (this was how it came to be called trance, because it put you in a trance). Much of it came out at a time when trance was a style of techno characterised by a focus on cyclic repetition without major structural changes to the groove. At the time, European and Detroit techno was, comparitively speaking, edgier and twitchier in the drums, and the structures were restless. Tracks I remember as being trance at the time that still sound very strong are those such as Hardfloor's 'Acperience', Barbarella's 'Barbarella',and others on the same labels at around the same time from Ongaku, arpeggitators et al: Harthouse Germany and Rising High in the UK, in particular. This was extremely minimal, atmospheric techno with intense, blurry, driving rhythms that never let up. Unlike what gets released as Trance today in the pop area, the original stuff really did hypnotise, and never sounded like it was made by Cubase obsessives who fuss with their track till it loses everything but bombast and the glossy, shiny, shrink-wrapped surface that one associates with Eurocheese. The concept of trance has definitely been lost to the reality of Trance - although the style of electronic dance music that is modernist, ultra-simple, spatial, cyclic, and produces a hypnosis effect has simply been reintegrated into underground techno. All Trance of the Oakenfold variety is destined to be bought up from secondhand bins by strip clubs. If you want to hear where the trance classics of five years ago still reign supreme, take a walk through your local red light district.

That said I don't mind hearing the tunes on the radio. I do consider it dance music and I'm partial to a good breakdown whatever the genre.

The thing that people are not really addressing about repetition is that minimal techno in the Detroit sense is mean to be sliced, diced, and utterly hacked apart by a DJ with hip-hop battle skills. Techno should be mixed in the same way ghetto-tech is mixed on WJLB. You should be ripping those records apart.

Detroit style DJ'ing is much different from Trance DJ'ing. If you have these huge layers of synth pads and leads you cannot really cut and mix the same way you can with tracky material. The ideas is that minimal techno is more energetic because you can blast the audience with so much more sonic information in a given stretch of time and manipulate that information a great deal more, cuts, pull backs, rocking doubles, beat juggling ect... you cannot really do that with huge trance records.

As a DJ you cannot juggle two records with huge arrangements, it just turns into a big mess. You pretty much have to wait for the breaks when the arrangements thin out, or mix during the fern gully ambient bliss section. It allows you less control over your programming at the bar to bar level, and you cannot turn on a dime the way you can with techno. It is more about playing songs than about manipulating raw audio to make the crowd jack.

I know it is a bit off topic, but it is something to consider when you compare the two styles. I am sure there are great trance records out there; I just have not heard them yet. As far as my spending money goes, I would rather see DJ Rolando tear through the UR back catalogue for 120 minutes straight before I hear a Sasha Van Oakenweed 14 hour epic journey.

I remember being excited to hear Surgeon on 89X (when they used to broadcast from Motor), and man, it was boooring. Same goes for a Jay Denham mix I have, and some other minimal techno sets I've heard. I'll admit, I haven't logged a lot of time at parties/clubs/etc., but it seems like the Jeff Mills style of mixing hasn't been picked up by enough people other than the Detroit ghetto tech DJs.

I saw Surgeon the first time he played in Detroit years ago. This was back in the early Downwards days when they were still being distributed by Pinnacle. I have seen that guy play about 5 times over the years and I have never seen him touch any of the older unknown Detroit guys ever. His reputation is far greater than his skills. That being said, I think he is a great producer. I think he is far more talented in that direction, rather than as a DJ.

...but that is a whole different thread.

Definitely, and I enjoy both in very difficult ways. With trance, I love to be completely engulfed in oceans of colossal reverbed synths, whereas I can also go on dancing like a machine for hours and hours on minimalist techno grooves - blaming trance for not being techno is a bit useless.

I also enjoy the hell out of a good trance track on its own, just following the arrangements, the tension building, all the production details. And while I think that minimalist techno tunes like Speedy J Krekc or Taksi Rohrbruch are amazing, they're all but completely unlistenable outside of the context of a mix.

On a side note, I just heard this year's Sensation theme (by Rank 1 again), it's of course completely massive and overblown (using the chord sequence of Mozart's Requiem) and I'll probably be sick of it by the time it hits the charts, but it's totally retro, using the same "stuttering" effect like on Lunatic Asylum The Meltdown and tons of other 1993/94 tunes.

But yes, somewhere in 1996 the paradigm went 180, minimalism out, maximalism in. This was the point where nearly all of the old fans jumped ship. Your average state-of-the-art instrumental "pure" trance track today (say, a recent Signum, Armin van Buuren or Six4Eight production) includes a busy 16th note melody bassline, at least three layers of synths with big 3D reverb, two arpeggiated lead melodies, two breakdowns, a dozen extra fill sounds, a busy percussion layer on top of the 4/4, and a breakbeat section. Mastering is much louder and rawer, bigger kicks, wider sound. The minimalist, clinical monoliths of 1994 are gone - or actually, they're still there but not called "trance" anymore.

http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/youth/youth18.jpg

..but honestly? It bores the snots outta me.

Robert Miles - "Children"
Spring Heel Jack - "Where Do You Fit In?"
Darude - "Sandstorm"
Jam and Spoon - "Stella (Jam and Spoon remix)"
Felix - "Don't You Want Me?"

Trance feels like a part of my past. I often return to various elements of my record collection, but never the trance stuff. I sued to adore it. The other week I dug out a load of my old Gatecrasher compilations, but the buzz and the joy (on the whole) wasn't there. What it did provoke was a whole load of nostalgia. Loving trance was responsible for me getting my first job, so I feel I owe it a bit more love. Genre guilt.

deepsky - cosmic dancer
katcha - touched by god (alfie conn mix)
denki groove - niji (ten forward mix)
lost tribbe - angel
way out west - the gift
solar stone - the calling / my soul / seven cities
hardkiss - raincry
veracocha - carte blanche

a lot of this has to do with my first experiences with E and a great trance dj and a local club with a terrific soundsysytem and just so many terrific memories of utterly perfect nights out where euphoric trance was the soundtrack.

i always preferred my tance with a helthy breakbeat underneath, and it still sounds good to me even today. when they got too many tuneless wannabe euro-chanteuse vixens trying to sing over the top, it kinda lost the plot for me

Of course, I still love dancing to old hardcore, so I guess what it really boils down to is 'I don't like it.'

I'm working on compiling a playlist of ultimate over-the-top epic trance anthems. I don't know if there's another thread for this sort of thing I'm missing out on. I think some of the few trance tracks I like were suggested by ILM in the past but I'm not sure where. It seems like that other thread actually turned out to be "trance that holds sentimental value for you" rather than GOOD trance. Some of that going on here too, but this:

Really Awesome Trance Songs That I'm A Fan Of:

"Children (Dream Version)" is right on. Other songs in a similar vein I've come up with:

Age of Love - "Age of Love" (the original trance anthem?)
Humate - "Love Stimulation (PvD's Love Club Mix)"
PvD - "For An Angel"
Kernkraft - "Zombie Nation"

It seems like some of the stuff from Air Liquide in the mid-90s definitely toes the line between trance and techno. I'm not going to shit up this thread with a bunch of YouTube links but this song - Liquid Air (Bionaut Mix) could certainly be called trance. For that matter, if we're going to include "Raincry" by Hardkiss as trance, couldn't you call most of FSOL's output "trance" too?

there's still a handful of trance trax i love

Some good recommendations there too. "Angel" by Lost Tribe may have been flogged by Sasha but it's still outstanding. I'd hardly call it trance except for the melody. The rhythm is really unique. In light of the recent love being heaped on whatever came between speed garage and 2-step, I feel like the weird breakdown in "Angel" is much more worthy of imitation. I guess that probably be too much like dubstep-trance though.

Seems like quite a bit of the early 90's stuff is being overlooked here too. For example, "Solar Plexus" by Solar Plexus. Purely effervescent. Hardfloor got a brief mention, but he nailed it quite a few times. His mix of "Circus Bells" is a masterpiece of acid manipulation. And Spooky may also be played out but they made some pretty innovative strides too.

Any more suggestions along these lines would be much appreciated.

Two Full Moons and a Trout by Union Jack, can't remember now if it's the Caspar Pound or 14" mix that's the best but I think they're both good. Anyway, check out that and also the Eye Q compilations called Behind The Eye. Vol. 1 is great, Vol. 2 has great moments.

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Behind-The-Eye-Eye-Q-Compilation-Vol-1/release/53011

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Behind-The-Eye-Vol-II/release/31969?ev=rr

^brotherlovesdub is correct

Also, sorry to be pedantic, but Hardfloor is a duo, but not one guy (xxpost)

The finest trance/techno (when the boundary lines were blurred completely) compilation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trance_Europe_Express

I don't know much about trance post-2000

i don't know anything about trance but aren't zombie nation the act not the song title?

isn't, even

yeah, it is, and the song is Kernkraft 400. surprised to see it named as trance!

Whoops. A few glaring errors in my post there. I don't know why "Kernkraft 400" wouldn't be trance, unless you're some kind of old school trance purist. It has the trance rhythm for certain.

I thought I'd heard most of the stuff from the Eye-Q and Trance Europe Express compilations but not all the titles look that familiar. I'll have to dig a little deeper there. Aphex Twin is "trance". Lol.Really appreciate the recommend on "Two Full Moons and a Trout". I prefer the Casper Pound mix, which is quite haunting, the 14" version is more acid-heavy. There is sublime trance, after all. That also led me to Humate "3.1" which is another stunning tune. There's one song I'm looking for that was on some mix CD that has this really haunting piano intro that's heavy on the echo. Yes, the word for the day is "haunting".

*appreciate the recommendation

I have a soft spot for post-2000 epic trance, but since we're talking about 90s stuff, this comp is pretty great.

Just bought this old V/A, LSG's 'Blueprint' is such a sweet tune.

It seems like some of the stuff from Air Liquide in the mid-90s definitely toes the line between trance and techno. I'm not going to shit up this thread with a bunch of YouTube links but this song - Liquid Air (Bionaut Mix) could certainly be called trance. For that matter, if we're going to include "Raincry" by Hardkiss as trance, couldn't you call most of FSOL's output "trance" too?

Dude, check out "Space Brothers" or "Chromoplastic" or "Time Code #3" or "Die Reise im Teekessel 3", they're definitely trance - or at least what was called trance back then. Air Liquide is probably not high on the "epic" scale, but anything they did between 1991 and 1994 is well worth checking out if you like freaky cosmic electronic music.

Tannenbaum is correct that the Trance Europe Express comps are a good source for some nice early 90s trance tunes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5-rzpfA98

Here's a few trance anthems from the early 90s you might enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34FE_CLkBTg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOZKiOjJYlM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycV3vIbaBiM

As for Paul van Dyk, this one is my favourite of his early 90s stuff. It takes quite a while to build up, but once the release comes, it feels sublime:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn9XHmuCMFA

This was a big trance anthem in 1994, I think it still sounds very nice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2YGrLC8PKc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrL0zsz8BHw

This one's a personal favourite of mine; I'm not sure what's it about the synth sound that kicks in at 1:25, but it sounds very pretty and also kinda sad. If this tune was slower it could pass for Robert Miles style "dream house".

don't forget "sugar daddy" by secret knowledge -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekzs-v_Fpmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm_i4clRXz0

On Electronic Highway, C.J. Bolland tried to marry trance with d&b/breaks. It was a surprisingly successful effort, but I've never really heard anyone do anything like this after that.

Yeah that CJ Bolland is pretty nice. I'm not really hearing the d&b influence too much, but it's definitely kind of a big beat/trance sound he's got there. Thanks.

So while we're on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrHvrQEobHU

Is this trance? It sounds really slowed down compared to the version I'm familiar with, dunno.

Speaking of breakbeats, is this trance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSNrOJJmGEY

Part n in a series of is there any way this could be trance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqBbdvBzl24

Yeah that CJ Bolland is pretty nice. I'm not really hearing the d&b influence too much, but it's definitely kind of a big beat/trance sound he's got there. Thanks.

The d&b influence is not so obvious on "Con Spirito", but the rest of Electronic Highway has more drum'n'bassy tunes. It's not the most perfect album or anything, but it's well worth checking out, the sort of midpoint between trance, d&b, and techno Bolland is searching there sounds pretty unique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSrNMGvd9bY

whole album is pretty great

Spent the night partying with a bunch of Brazilians. I don't want to generalize too much, but I'm sure the beer will help. It seems almost like when people from most of the rest of the world (outside coastal US, UK, Berlin/Köln, Tokyo) think of "electronic music", they pretty much think of trance. These folks were well content to play the same PvD tune over and over again and bliss out to it. It was a decent track, but after a certain point, Paul van Dyk is just Paul van Dyk, amirite? Afterwards I went in search of a club where Claude VonStroke was supposed to be playing but ended up at a d&b club instead. There's still a thriving d&b scene in SF? Who knew? It wasn't half bad.

That Lush vid..wow. Who would subject a band to such a thing? British shoegaze band forced to make uncomfortable mid 90's bus tour across America, as a precursor of just how ugly and sick the USA will become in the coming millennium.

I'll soon wrap this up but i did go on an Air Liquide trip probably inspired by some ILM post (maybe by you Tuomas, thanks). I'm more drawn to their ambient/techno-insprired stuff like "Tanz der Lemminge" and "Uludag Pt 4", don't really feel that much personal connection with the tracks you mentioned but thanks for the recommendation all the same.