Against Me! - New Wave

I suck at html.

I didn't like Under the Blacklight, and New Wave is on my top 10 (#4 to be exact).

aw yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqYmLDdIKws&feature=player_embedded

single off new album

not feelin the shoutin

These guys are good at what they do (i.e. their songs are written in solid prose unencumbered by Green Day's American idiots and boulevards of broken dreams).

yeah I've always thought they were pretty good lyricists in their sphere. the best show I've ever been to was an AM! show.

New album is amazing. Love it more every time I hear it.

shit did it leak??

few weeks ago. it really does it for me. such great amazing shit.

"I wake up in the morning and I drink from the fountain. / I wake up in the morning with the same unanswered questions. / I don't know what's going to cure my unsettled stomach."

Unsettled stomaches!

"Do you remember when you were young and you wanted to set the world on fire?"

total d-_-b

"because of the shame" is an admirable and stirring "thrash unreal" redux

"Suffocation"

this is top ten for me (the album).

They remember what it was like to be young, don't hesitate about sentimentalizing how they knocked down white crosses in graveyards, but don't forget for a moment that they're in a better place now.

yeah as much as I absolutely prefer their old stuff it makes me happy that they've found success.

I love this band. They deserve to be huge. My favorite from White Crosses is Suffocation. The only band around now (besides Wire) who could make a catchy chorus out of "Modern life in the western world"

album art is pretty rad

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/White_Crosses.jpg

i liked this band when i was a teenager and when they were were teenage anarchists

but when it came time to throw bricks through that starbucks windows
YOU LEFT ME ALL ALONE (all alone)

always admired how that chorus is really clunky when you just say it but when tom powers through it it sounds like the most natural thing in the world

I'll make my way back home to you
Head north on San Marco Avenue.

this album is so good

after "because of the shame" my favs right now are "we're breaking up" and "high pressure low" (love how the "high pressure low" chorus keeps growing)

mordy i remember now that you loved 21st century breakdown too

lol, yeah. I was just thinking how these albums are similar, tho 21st Century is way more theatrical (which is prob appropriate that Green Day is turning those songs into Broadway numbers) and this feels a lot rawer.

yeah totes -- "ache with me" is super 21st century breakdown tho & the pianos of "we're breaking up" feel that way too

the new Gaslight Anthem is striking me in a really similar way to this too

we used to get high together / instead of getting high alone

because of the shame i associate with vulnerability, i am numbing myself completely

heard the teenage anarchist song; haaaated it

I just watched the music video for it and thought it was dope also maybe MIA should watch it she might learn something

http://stereogum.com/381371/franz-nicolay-joins-against-me/news/

Weird.

Yeah.

what is he even going to play?

I'm really not into Against Me! suddenly playing a keyboard on all their tracks.

ha right

The more I listen to this the more I like it... and I liked it right off the bat.

How is their last album compared to this? All I remember is that one single that sounded like Franz Ferdinand, which I quite liked.

The one issue I'm having with this album is that the lyrics are so bleak. Like I've been turning on Gaslight Anthem a bunch because it sounds amazing and has a really warm feeling and the lyrics are vague enough to tune out when my attention is elsewhere. This Against Me! album tho is brutal. "Narrow visions of autonomy / You want me to surrender my identity," turning into this old man looking back on his more rebellious days when he was still full of life. Or "because of the shame I associate with vulnerability / i am numbing myself completely," which turns in the end into a death (the mother burying her kid), or the super depressing "We're Breaking Up" track where he's looking around his broken relationship and wondering what to do with their shared bands and shared friends. So generally I'd rather listen to something not so completely depressing - it's not half as good as something like Blue, but it's about as relentless.

Well to me it's a lot about how this former teenage anarchist is dealing with being 30 (or nearly 30), realizing he can't be that kid anymore. But yeah, a lot of it's bleak shit. Is that so bad, though?

No, I mean, it can be great. I think the new album is really powerful. But I don't always want to be in that headspace, and it transmits affect really effectively.

Terrific album.

yes

Why do me and J0rdan like the same rock albums all the time? Is there some reason that Against Me! and Titus Andronicus appeal to AUTOGOONS in particular?

J0rdan, do you like Torche too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgvqEJstNrw

Are we talking about White Crosses or New Wave? Not that it really matters. They're both excellent.

The new one doesn't have anything as epic as Thrash Unreal, but it's probably more consistent overall. The only problem with New Wave for me was side 2 was not nearly as good.

I had NO idea the Against Wave cult reviles White Crosses (check out the Amazon reviews). How is it so bloody different -- except they've gotten better at what they do?

Against Me's fans turn on them with every album iirc

ha, i was gonna say, i thought they turned on them after "new wave"

yeah whiney idk why we both dig the same rock albums -- add my chem & 21st cent breakdown to the list

Titus Andronicus & Torche are heavier than shit like Broken Social Scene w/o being as heavy as something like, I don't know, Mastodon (to pick an example of popular metal stuff)

I'm gonna make a thread about it so we don't clog up this one

that torche is really sweet, for some reason i always thought they were some baroness type metal

whiney there's already a thread about this sort of rock album -- mordy started it

maybe this isn't exactly what you were thinking tho

Post-Boss American Shades of Working Class Rock Music Thread

focuses more on gaslight anthem i guess, no idea if you like them

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=81488#unread

Oddly enough, or maybe not, but the last two Against Me! albums are my favourite of theirs. This probably says alot about my tastes.

ohhh man, as a huge early AM! fan I am listening to this right now. I didn't care for their last couple but the first song on this gave me goosebumps.

'white crosses' is such an anthem, I can't get past it every time I put the album on

love the way he says "home-to-you" and "av-uh-nue"

really wanna go to an AM! show and jam to this

Well to me it's a lot about how this former teenage anarchist is dealing with being 30 (or nearly 30), realizing he can't be that kid anymore. But yeah, a lot of it's bleak shit. Is that so bad, though?

― rennavate, Friday, May 21, 2010 3:17 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark

cursory feeling is not only can he not be that kid anymroe, but he realizes how... windmill-tilting it all was? "politics were too convenient" - he's wiser, has perspective from which to evaluate and condemn his past actions, but is still waiting for some new ideology to replace it - "looking for context and perspective, looking for some kind of distraction" - and his old impulses keep returning to fill the void...

Mordy OTM about how bleak lyrically this album is, probably because I feel like I am at a similar place in life these guys are

"with my name tattoo'd into your skin" and later, the reverse-shot: "with your name tattoo'd into my skin"

despite the sentiments proffered, love how vulnerable the song makes tom seem.

thing is, I don't think he's quite closed off that chapter of that life yet. he doesn't have as much distance from that period as he would like himself or you to believe. "I've got no judgment for you/come on an ache with me." he's exhausted his veins, but he's still open - if someone were to come along and revitalize his prior leanings, I don't doubt he'd join in.

This record is an absolute monster. Now my favorite is Spanish Moss.

HIGH PRESSURE LOW

There's just no future left for us to dream of
Living in an era of instability
So caught up in the culture of their rivals
Fear breeds in honest men
It's a high pressure low
It's a high pressure low

like, this is the fucking shit here

as a chorus

My favorite part of that song:

Would anyone forgive Robert McNamara?
In retrospect he had to admit;
There was mistake in going to war without first asking all the questions.
Yes, Robert Strange McNamara,

Yes, Robert Strange McNamara

want to get up and dance & sing along to this even though I'm at work

It's probably my favorite record of the year so far. Right now my favorite is Spanish Moss. Hard to believe this record doesn't have its own thread, but it's too late now.

To me, this band is so much better now than they were starting out.

What god doesn't give to you, you've gotta go get for yourself

still one of the best

Yessir.

no fuckin joke

Were supposed to be doing a UK tour next month until it was cancelled with no explanation. Hope all is well with them.

Best record of 2010. It's kind of lame that it doesn't have its own thread.

I just saw the video for "Teenage Anarchist" thought it was excellent. Lyrically better than anything in its class that I've heard.

"You're getting messed up with the wrong guys/You're getting messed up on the wrong drugs/Sometimes your body takes you places/That you didn't really plan on goin" has always struck me as a very Craig Finn-y line. The whole song in its way has that classic rock feel to it, but that line sounds like it coulda come right off Separation Sunday.

also the high note on "they don't know nothin about redemption" always makes me lose my shit

hoos did you ever get into early AM!

I like Eternal Cowboy a lot but Axl Rose still hasn't really grabbed me yet

also i think i want to send the lyrics to "piss and vinegar" to everyone on the occupydc discussion list

man hoos I feel like I don't know you anymore

this is actually my favorite against me! record

maybe i am wrong to interpret "borne on the fm waves of the heart" as a song about social anxiety disorder but it is sincerely the best song about that, if it is

man hoos I feel like I don't know you anymore

― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Monday, November 7, 2011 5:36 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol how u mean

maybe i am wrong to interpret "borne on the fm waves of the heart" as a song about social anxiety disorder but it is sincerely the best song about that, if it is

― mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Monday, November 7, 2011 5:37 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yah i've always heard it as kinda "summer lovin" + s.a.d.

hah as an early AM! fan I always felt that the band peaked with axl rose - when eternal cowboy first came out man you would not believe the backlash

it's only with white crosses that they've been winning me back

so to hear you rep for everything except the classic!

*moshes by myself*

yah nah i mean

i kinda came up on nasally anarcho-folk like david rovics and the people who turned into riot folk so i kinda got my fill of the folk-beat kinda thing, even if it was plugged in? idk

all that said, thinking about david rovics has made me wanna hear him again and goddamn as sorta annoying he can be with his bathos (how many songs about dead palestinian kids do you need?) and his weird al-esque voice, hearing stuff like "berkshire hills" and "we are everywhere" is really fucking me up with the way the sentiments about struggle are landing close to home.

hey hoos do u fuck w/ folks like Robert Hoyt and Jim Page too?

I recently went on a big early Against Me kick, I love that Crimethinc EP w/ "Les Paul cursed my dirty callused fingers"

crimes as forgiven by?

the early acoustic EPs are maybe my favorite AM! product

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPAgL3J_dvc

^ used to listen to this in college a lot and it just got me all choked up at my desk

really I'm just surprised that tom can sing after so many years of touring. he must have vocal chords made out of six pack plastic rings.

oh yah dayo you're right about the name, don't know why I thought it was on Crimethinc label.

wow didn't really expect AM to get ILX love. This has made me happy.

Acoustic EPs are great btw

hey hoos do u fuck w/ folks like Robert Hoyt and Jim Page too?

i have never heard of these dudes! but will have to check them out fo sho

I never heard of this band until New Wave. The earlier stuff sounds like an entirely different band. I like the slick radio-friendly version of the band infinitely better than the acoustic songs about anarchists.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-gabel-of-against-me-comes-out-as-transgender-20120508

Very, very happy with the positive response to this. Good on her, good on Against Me! fans.

From the Against Me! forum, i.e.:

I am so so so proud of her. As soon as I read the article I ran downstairs and told my transgender sibling to google the article, and then we hugged and yelled (because this is so fantastic and yaaay). It's so important that everybody, I mean everybody here who cares about her to be unwavering in our support and not let anyone get away with any bullshit.
I am literally the happiest person. I love her so goddamn much.

+1

very cool, I saw a headline at some mainstream news site before I realized what this revive was about.

Bold, brave move and I applaud it. And I'm glad initial fan reaction is warm.

Still, Against Me! is absolutely not my bag.

the status update via queer bashback that i caught this on was "good for you. you're still a fucking sellout." puro smh

guilty lol @ that

this made my day! awesome all around

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxNRia5f7yY

maybe my fav AM! song ever? maybe their most intimate, and that's no easy feat

Wow. That is truly surprising.

I tried getting into their early music, can't do it. But I love the last 2 records, the slick radio-friendly ones. I wish more bands would sell out that well.

I guess the lyrics to "The Ocean" stuck with me, because my first thought after hearing this was

If I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman
My mother once told me she would have named me Laura

So finding out she's naming herself Laura is neat.

good on her!

the status update via queer bashback that i caught this on was "good for you. you're still a fucking sellout." puro smh

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 5:39 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

this is fucking hilarious, i love it.

I guess the lyrics to "The Ocean" stuck with me, because my first thought after hearing this was

/If I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman
My mother once told me she would have named me Laura /

So finding out she's naming herself Laura is neat.
--C-L

I'd never caught those lines before, wow. Was also thinking that in the context of a struggle for gender identity "against me!" has much richer (sadder?) meaning.

loved the last two records also (white crosses more or less to death); this is rad.

My buddy used to be their drummer. I've hung out with TG/LJG a number of times and never had any idea. Courage and love to her.

I love New Wave and White Crosses (my roommate loves the first three LPs) - this is the best news I've read today.

especially glad to see that most AM! fans are responding with support. The Rolling Stone comment thread was iffy at points but generally good, too.

What's hitting me really hard today is the bridge of 'I Was a Teenage Anarchist'. They got so much flack for selling out without anyone really talking about why the scene/movement can be actively alienating.

'the scene got too rigid' 'narrow visions of autonomy / you want me to surrender my identity / I was a teenage anarchist / the revolution was a lie' often got read as alienation from politics but it speaks really strongly to ways in which radical/anarchist/etc. spaces aren't necessarily queer or trans friendly (or safe spaces for people who aren't white) - not that they never are, and Against Me! Have always been part of the progressive/lefty wing of punk but still... The spaces and music of not explicitly queer punk code white and male and straight.

a lot of their songs read as queer so these developments make sense

xp hadn't thought about that either, really enlightening point.

just having another discussion today about how lgtbq folks have felt alienated from certain ostensibly radical spaces locally, that connection seems to make it really clear tho

still baffled that this scene still trucks with notions of purity.

well from where i'm sitting its less a question of the generalized punk 'you sold out when you signed to a major' than the specifically politically-driven 'you became a part of the entertainment-industrial complex, which means you have shitty politics,' and for people who thought their relatively marginal politics had found a voice in their early music, i imagine that betrayal might have cut a little deeper.

coming as i have from their latter stuff into their earliest stuff i tend to love it all sort of irrespective of politics.

i want to smash them all!

like MRR's injunction that people slash the tires of their tour van while they gigged always struck me as an especially personal form of attack--you're really gonna make the people in this touring band buy four new tires?--but the viciousness of it makes a little more sense if its understood as a reciprocal counterattack to the emotional gutpunch of their shift away from "the scene." not excusing it, obv, just trying to understand it.

it's weird how little I care about this

is it? go on

all you people who love the last two albums but dont have any love for what came before bum me out

sell outs

just inasmuch as it made me realize that being transgendered ceased being interesting/controversial/worth commenting on, for me, like over a decade ago.

xp

all you people who love the last two albums but dont have any love for what came before bum me out

― dayo, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:04 PM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw i feel the need to confess to you that the acoustic ep is basically all i listen to now

can't wait for shakey to go in every single thread on new answers and update us on whether he cares about the topic or not

thought process

* open thread
* think "this is not interesting enough to be worth commenting on"
* comment on it anyways

:) xxp

yr welcome

christ shakey

for me 'baby, I'm an anarchist' and 'I was a teenage anarchist' are really bookends for AM!'s career arc imo. so much compressed maturation and wisdom between those two songs.

can't begrudge them for signing with a major or even for signing with fat wreck back in the day - puro's are so weird to me imo

The spaces and music of not explicitly queer punk code white and male and straight.

― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:42 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark

this it otm btw, so much of the scene reads like "I was rejected by the dominant culture so now I'm going to carve out my own space where I get to impose my own rules and culture on"

go into the gay thread less than 24 hours after the NC marriage amendment and be all "well gays and marriage ceased being interesting after The Birdcage"

LBGTQ movement can stop dead in its tracks - shakey finds it all normal and ho-hum, no further progress needs to be made

well, that isn't really what I meant. I meant this made me realize what a weird bubble I live in. ie, a bubble filled with transgendered people.

but whatever carry on

should i watch the birdcage btw

that makes it more of a big deal that it occurred in a bubble as tight as this woman's.

yes, hoos!

Shakey, I don't think anyone here is commenting on the article because they find the notion of being transgendered strange, I think people are commenting because they recognise the social and institutional discrimination that transgendered people face, and are heartened by the fact that someone prominent in music has been able to go through this and find support from their fans.

I get all that. would be strange to me if she DIDN'T get support from her fans tbh.

trying to recall the last time someone's music career was damaged by coming out of the closet, much less transgender (admittedly the instances of the latter that I'm familiar with involved local acts and OutpunK/Oly-scene folks)

by the way, fuck tom breihan:

http://stereogum.com/1026761/against-me-frontman-to-change-genders/news/

Well, here’s something I don’t think anyone saw coming. Tom Gabel is the frontman and founder of Against Me!, one of the best punk bands currently in existence. But he isn’t going to be Tom Gabel much longer. He’s currently planning to begin living as a woman, and he’s changing his name to Laura Jane Grace. This is apparently a real thing. More below.

Rolling Stone reports that Gabel is planning to start taking hormones and undergoing electrolysis soon. He says he’s been living with gender dysphoria for years and that he (she, I guess?) feels the need to talk openly about it, since no major rock figures have done this before. Gabel’s wife is apparently entirely cool with this: “For me, the most terrifying thing about this was how she would accept the news. But she’s been super-amazing and understanding.”

So: Good for her? I guess? My main takeaway from this, beyond the obvious surprise, is that I’m hoping Gabel’s hormone treatments won’t change her inimitable bleat of a voice.

well that is quite the reaction isn't it

doing a lot of guessing there lol

jesus fn christ

Not sure how much his follow-up comment makes a difference:

After 20 minutes of reflection, I feel sort of bad that my tone in this post is more “WHUT?” than “YAY,” especially considering how much I like this person. But then again, “WHUT” is, I think, a perfectly understandable instant reaction.

IF ONLY THE ENTIRE WORLD WAS AS ENLIGHTENED AND LITERATE AS ILM

So: Good for her? I guess?

this comes off as pretty shitty, regardless of if your first reaction is being surprised

"WHUT" is a perfectly understandable instant reaction for straight white dudes with little tg experience who barely dug to the Against Me albums they loved so much (hell, I'm basically one). Posting your instant reaction on a semi-professional news website is less so.

Yeah, I think that's my main problem with that post - even if your reaction is "WHUT" it isn't an appropriate way of writing about it.

yeah i mean i shared the link with just a "!" because i was surprised by the news but didn't want to try expressing that surprise in words bcz i knew there was no way to do it well

i guess breihan didn't have that compunction

bcz i knew there was no way

do it well

How nice that selling out enables her to afford such an elaborate operation.

My excuse for missing the heads-up in "The Ocean" is that, the way New Wave is paced, I'm done by "Americans Abroad."

if you save up long enough, maybe you can get an operation that allows you to go fuck yourself

xp

Also "Born On The FM Waves" is one of the awesomest songs of the 2000's.

xp I meant that in the most supportive way possible while still frustrated at my own uninsured situation..

her inimitable bleat of a voice.
her inimitable bleat of a voice.
her inimitable bleat of a voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_0mDkN-TB4

people are apparently really having trouble expressing their support without coming off as total d-bags!

Stereogum dude is more of a d-bag than me. I'm happy for Tom Gabel and I'm not sure why I immediately thought of health insurance.

esp when you presumably don't know what his situation is, aside from being an ex-sire recording artist

How nice that selling out enables her to afford such an elaborate operation.

There wasn't any mention of surgery. Just female hormones and electrolysis.

my mistake! i take it back.

i def hear the uninsured concern

health insurance rarely pays for sex change operations

my city's health plan started paying for those a decade ago for city employees

but you live in San Francisco. That's not typical at all.

i'm curious whether they pay for cosmetic surgeries as well (which many might argue this is)

what's up poliopolice

Ah shit, yeah, I didn't even think of the American thing. Over here you can get operations on the NHS if you've lived as the other gender for about three years. Though apparently the process can be incredibly frustrating.

unfamiliar w/ band, but looks like he was a cute boy so pourin' one out.

inimitable bleat of a voice

she was, sorry

xp

this is the first cool thing about against me, that's for sure

good for her!

oh m@tt when will you know the joys of Reinventing Axl Rose

I think this is awesome.

Over here you can get operations on the NHS if you've lived as the other gender for about three years.

honest question: how do you prove this?

you show your paystubs

I would recommend reading the columns A Transgender Journey by Juliet Jacques - it's a personal account, and obviously people have different experiences, but it's very well written and covers a lot of the bases of what you need to go through.

trying to recall the last time someone's music career was damaged by coming out of the closet

How's Ricky Martin these days?

Clay Aiken doing OK? I think so, right?

Martin came out in 2010 (way later than he should have imho) well after his career had peaked and he'd basically retired.

Aiken's on Broadway iirc, where they don't tolerate homosexuals

Martin's coming out so late into his career slough is precisely what was wrong.

how about the village people?

what about them?

what's up Poliopolice

were they ever even IN the closet to begin with? that was 35 years ago, and even 5 yo me knew they were gay.

Martin's coming out so late into his career slough is precisely what was wrong.

yeah his gay following was huge, I doubt it would have damaged his career to come out sooner - probably would have boosted it tbh

Hey Dayo! How's it hanging?

Ted Haggard seems to have lost a lot of followers

unfamiliar w/ band, but looks like he was a cute boy so pourin' one out.

Hate to admit it, but this was sort of my first thought too.

and how was Ted Haggard's music career going pre-outing?

That photo of Tom and his wife is cuet.

How's Ricky Martin these days?

― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:25 AM Bookmark

his album last year debuted at #3, so quite alright

my co-columnist at the voice actually wrote something pretty informative recently about how no out gay artist has never had a #1 album in the US: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/05/adam_lambert_gay_pop_star.php

stop dividing the LBGT community by preferring Rufus Wainwright's music, ship!

interesting piece (i'm not finished with it yet) but that little factoid kinda says more about how charts are weird than about homophobia in the record-buying public imho

lol alfred

for ex:

On the male side, Boy George's self-declared status as America's favorite drag queen (about as far as a pop star could go publicly in 1984), didn't hurt Culture Club at all on the Hot 100, where they scored six Top 10 hits including a No. 1 ("Karma Chameleon"). But despite selling four million U.S. copies, 1983's Colour by Numbers spent a frustrating six weeks at No. 2, a reflection mainly of its misfortune at being released within the same year as Michael Jackson's Thriller.

xp

yeah i'm not saying that stat in and of itself is a huge thing, nor does CM's column to be fair, but i was surprised to hear that Elton's string of #1s ended almost immediately after he came out, had no idea.

yeah there's no question CBN would've been a #1 album otherwise

this is kind of a silly tangent as to whether it's brave commercially of a punk rock singer to come out as transgender. it's just brave of a person, i don't care if you're "used to it" or not.

which, frankly, strikes me as really bizarre. I mean, I have that record and it's pretty good but it is so strange that something that goofily arty and day-glo and obviously gay was such a huge success. it's a very odd combination of styles - calypso/reggae, R&B croon, synthpop - delivered in neonized sub-Harlequinade drag queen package ... just, why did this appeal to huge swathes of America? did it tie into some club med fantasy people liked to indulge in or something?

xp

The timing of Elton's fall made for irresistible speculation, but I wonder if the slow change in the pop climate had something to do with it too: the Hot 100 was moving towards disco and disco-inflected pop in 1976 and 1977, and Blue Moves was out of step[/i] (it doesn't explain the debacles of the disco-inflected A Single Man or the Thom Bell-produced Victim of Love, of course). My other question is how fast word traveled about Elton's RS admissions. How many kids and boomers read RS in the late seventies? Was the subject discussed on "Nightline" or something?

There's also the quality of the music. Elton had recorded spotty albums but few of the albums b/w 1976 and 1982 boasted one memorable single. He admits to being burned out at the time and it shows. His imperial period, to quote the Pet Shop Boys, had ended.

which, frankly, strikes me as really bizarre. I mean, I have that record and it's pretty good but it is so strange that something that goofily arty and day-glo and obviously gay was such a huge success. it's a very odd combination of styles - calypso/reggae, R&B croon, synthpop - delivered in neonized sub-Harlequinade drag queen package ... just, why did this appeal to huge swathes of America? did it tie into some club med fantasy people liked to indulge in or something?

These images and tropes signified as "New Wave" and played exceptionally well on MTV. Also, the songs were damn good and fully deserved hits.

it's like the amorphous sexuality of UK glam transferring over to America a decade late (see also Prince, MJ etc).

xp

yeah I'm not knocking the material on CBN. some of it is beyond silly but there are def hooks there.

Speaking as a guy who didn't have MTV until the late nineties, I heard Culture Club hits beside Men at Work, Matthew Wilder, and Lionel Richie and didn't notice anything amiss; they all played with "island" rhythms.

maybe disco's success had dislodged America's sexual mores enough to allow less traditionally gendered artists to come through via New Wave

xp

ahhh Matthew Wilder

maybe disco's success had dislodged America's sexual mores enough to allow less traditionally gendered artists to come through via New Wave

MTV.

suddenly English nancy boys in pirate makeup singing over glam chords and disco bass lines were acceptable

yeah, Haircut 100 was huge on MTV (speaking of vaguely tropical)

How's Ricky Martin these days?

― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:25 AM Bookmark

his album last year debuted at #3, so quite alright

― The Reverend, Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:26 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ha, well I guess I got PWNED,

ha, i thought that was a genuine question

he is rich enough that he is playing CHE in EVITA on BROADWAY

lol

the role of Evita was taken

What a weird piece, that VV-thing. Because my god, how many gay artists have had huge singles in America, number one or otherwise? What kind of strange standard is the elusive number one album? And certainly there have been acts so flamboyant that I'd surmise their heterosexuality made no difference to homophobes. Like, were there homophobic Prince fans who were all, yeah, he sings high and dresses in black panties, teases with "am I straight or gay?" but he's totally not gay, so he's OK?

Did Judas Priest fans turn their back in the band when Rob Halford came out?

he is rich enough that he is playing CHE in EVITA on BROADWAY

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:49 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:00 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the role of Evita was taken

― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:04 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

o_O

Did Judas Priest fans turn their back in the band when Rob Halford came out?

Halford came out well past their commercial peak. And then left the band (I forget which came first, this was around the same time...?) He's an interesting case tho. Certainly now it's no problem, they're rightly revered as "metal gods".

I was about to make Shakey's joke tbh

What kind of strange standard is the elusive number one album?

I think CM is approaching it as a matter of trivia more than anything.

I dont think there's any way to link an artist's gayness with their chart success, especially using whatever strange science is at work in that piece. If anything it seems like a lot ("a lot") of artists, at least "rock" artists, come out when their career has already slowed or faltered, which definitely imparts the illusion of failure.

What about Bowie? He came out early in his career -- he go tit out of the way, so to speak. It certainly caused American critics to view him with suspicion for years.. Not only is he a chameleon, but he's queer.

Bowie's one of the only cases I can think of where a straight guy tried to pass himself off as gay AS A CAREER MOVE

Brandon Flowers, in his luckless way, has tried.

What about Pete Townshend? What about Brett "I'm gay but I've never had a gay experience" Anderson?

Certainly the Depeche Mode guys, hetero though they may be, didn't exactly make an effort to macho themselves up.

Cross-genre here, but Jean Claude van Damme was always open about courting gay fans.

didn't duran duran brag about letting guys suck them off because they got bored with women doing it? or is this a sixth-hand bit of rumor/mythmongering

It is now!

I heard that Duran Duran used to brag about letting guys suck them off.

I saw an EMP talk once about how back in the day Elton despised Bowie because the latter was this straight guy playing gay and critics were eating it up while Elton was stuck in the closet and not getting anywhere near the plaudits. Supposedly "Bennie and the Jets" was a lyrical dart aimed at Bowie.

would LOVE to read bitchy Elton attacking Bowie

Not sure critics ate it up in America. The tone of many of his reviews was suspcious.

Bowie's failure to break America early in his career is pretty legendary

altho don't think I've read much criticism of him from the time, apart from Bangs'

Diamond Dogs was his first top five album in the States, two years after the impact of his "coming out" had waned.

You may be aware of the fact that neither of them are Americans.

But ... but .... Young Americans ....

You may be aware of the fact that neither of them are Americans.

British = fruits?

Bowie's one of the only cases I can think of where a straight guy tried to pass himself off as gay AS A CAREER MOVE

Wasn't this Brett Anderson's thing? But I guess it's different in the UK, where Erasure had... what, FOUR consecutive #1 albums?

Suede were ignored here, alas.

Brett Anderson was also quite clearly using Bowie as a playbook. worked about as well in the US for Suede as it did for Bowie lol

xp

Anyway this is all kind of beside the point, she's a transwoman, not a gay man, and I think the super-positive reaction about her 'coming out' is more a reflection of the fact that being trans is (as I perceive) more difficult for the uninitiated to parse than "gay" or "lesbian"

yeah we got kinda off-topic a bit

I'm just happy to see a public entertainer with gender dysphoria speaking plainly and candidly about it in the media. It's not really _new_ that there are trans (or gender-queer) people working in entertainment, but I think this openness creates a more positive space and I hope it becomes the norm

Man, I was looking for country singer Rae Spoon's coming out article(s)-- Rae identified as transman in the early 00s but now they identify as gender-neutral-- sadly they've been whisked away off the internet.

learned how to play 'reinventing axl rose' today

Rae is fucking awesome. Point final.

Brett Anderson was also quite clearly using Bowie as a playbook. worked about as well in the US for Suede as it did for Bowie lol

worked less well because Bowie sold millions of records in American and got two #1 hits

British = fruits?

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:41 PM Bookmark

Naw, just trying to point out the British press is probably much more relevant to that conversation than the American press you automatically jumped to.

well, I think I was clear about distinguishing between his coverage (and sales) here and the Yoo Kay.

I see the band is touring with the Cult (um) this summer. I wonder how long is Tom planning to tour as Tom? And will she continue to tour as Laura? Will she tour in Against Me! or is that the end of the band?

i guess that will become clearer soon, the RS.com blurb ends with:

The full story of Gabel's transformation is in the latest issue, on newsstands this Friday (May 11th). In it, the singer tells Josh Eells about her history of gender dysphoria, the specifics of the transition process and what becoming Laura Jane Grace will mean for the future of Against Me!

If anybody can fit the phrase gender dysphoria into a lyric, it will be Laura Jane Grace.

i read the full story the other day, it said he plans on performing as a woman when they go on tour at the end of may

wait nevermind, i misremembered -- she talks in the piece about performing onstage as a woman, but i guess there are no solid plans

it does say that she plans on being on hormones by the time they go on tour at the end of may

The pitchfork post on the story includes a live YouTube vid of Gable solo (with long hair!) doing a new track called "Gender Dysphoria Blues." would link, but I'm on my phone.

Halford came out well past their commercial peak.

Halford came out repeatedly AFAIK, the first I ever heard of Judas Priest was in a "heavy metal primer" in Smash Hits, which casually mentioned he was the only out gay in metal

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6wturVSLc1qzpf0co1_1280.jpg

awesome

aw

http://youtu.be/35xd5OzEqro

Performing 'The Ocean' live in Colorado. The sheer look of joy on Laura's face around 1:10 when she hits the second verse is so incredible.

(And the cheers from the crowd at those lines.

Better recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNY7mcupfrs

i was totes going to buy tickets to this. i'm glad i waited:

Against Me!
BAD RELIGION TOUR CANCELLATION
Unfortunately we have to cancel all of our appearances scheduled for the upcoming tour with Bad Religion and Polar Bear Club.
Canceling a tour is definitely not a decision we would make lightly. At this moment, due to our current uncertainty over who is going to be playing drums with us, we feel like we are lacking the ability to put on the show our fans deserve and we think that the best thing for us to do right now is take some time to regroup and finish a record.
Our most sincere apologies to Bad Religion, Polar Club and all of the agents and promoters involved with the tour but most importantly to the fans who were coming out to see us.
If anyone who bought tickets doesn't want to go to the show now or walks away from the show feeling disappointed we'll definitely do our best to accommodate some spots on our guest list next time we pass through your town, which hopefully won't be too long from now.
Sincere apologies. - Against Me!

http://dyingscene.com/news/fat-mike-nofx-and-atom-willard-the-hell-to-record-with-against-me/

Huh. Cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bePBQA30vQ

HOOS are you coming around to reinventing axl rose??

Oh yeah dude, around late winter last year it became my favorite

http://i.imgur.com/SKHsa1z.jpg

badass

this is temporarily available for free download at their website right now http://www.againstme.net/

both songs are great

excited!!

also i was sort of worried about the status of the proper record bc they lost both their bassist and drummer recently but apparently they've finished recording it

yeah i'm kinda skeptical that this is coming out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WanzlOvGg

saw them at riot fest last weekend, it got really emotional. if the rest of transgender dysphoria blues is as good as the new songs they played it'll be a really important record to me. in like a deeply personal way

always extremely jealous when someone gets a chance to see them live

anticipating the hell out of the new record

Same here. I played White Crosses a few weeks ago and was shocked anew by "Suffocation."

found a decent live video of "transgender dysphoria blues"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq_va3wNfFo

the lyrics are incredible

you want them to notice the ragged ends of your summer dress
you want them to see you like they see every other girl
they just see a faggot
they hold their breath not to catch the sick

rough surf on the coast, i wish i could've spent the whole day alone with you