The King Crimson studio album poll

Red - King Crimson

Larks' Tongues in Aspic (April 1973)
Starless and Bible Black (June 1974)

cant decide between these two

red ftw

So torn between Red and Larks'

Voted for Red, because I like that 80s live album better than the studio stuff

My vote's for Red.

starless

CONTROVERSIAL

somebody likes live improv

huh? starless is a favorite among music fans.

Islands or Lizards would be controversial, not Starless

Me being one of them! The majority of the album's tracks are live improvs though.

xpost

I don't think I have any of the studio albums anymore. I sold them all in college meaning to get the remasters, and then lost interest and never did.

Lizards is a weird fucking record.

"red" but i'm realising i've not listened to this stuff for so long that my mind might have changed.

Lark's Tongues here. Sailor's Tale is one of my favorite songs by them, but I hate the rest of Islands. Red is my 2nd choice, In the Court of the Crimson King is my 3rd.

Lark's Tongue in a photo finish with Starless, Jamie Muir the deciding factor. That guy was wack.

oh shit. you're right.

Can't decide between Larks and Discipline.

I love Muir's work on Lark's Tongue's. Red just kicks ass though.

I voted for Discipline as it was a kick in the head for me who was a punk rocker and heard something I never heard before when it came out. At the time no one sang or spoke like Adrian Belew did not even David Byrne. Today it does sound less exciting but at the time it was really oddball. It was not screaming, it was not singing, it was not spoken word. It was not even nervous in the style of Talking Heads or Devo. It was just this voice that bobbed up and down.

I did go back to listen to the 70s records and they are good. I do not get why everyone loves Red. It rocks. I enjoy it. But what does this record do that Black Sabbath or Deep Purple or even Genesis didnt do better years before?

Islands and Starless And Bible Black are more interesting than Red, which is fun the first few times but that is it.

Discipline is the one for me. Three Of A Perfect Pair comes close. If I had to chose a record side, Side B of Three Of A Perfect Pair would get my vote.

red is too samey sounding all the way through

Jamie Muir ruled. I blew a bunch of money on two of those KCCC live discs that have Muir on them, but it was worth it.

Yeah, Muir was dope. I like those 3 mid-70's albums to such a similar degree that I think it would be impossible for me to pick a favorite.

I bought that "Great Deceiver" set in high school and my friends laughed at me. =(

Starless just ahead of Red. Discipline and Court are great albums too though.

Red has great drumming, and sounds great too.

Debut or controversial Islands choice for me.

They never got better than their debut, although "Lizard" comes close.

Argh too difficult. They all have superb material and boring material.

Too many distinct eras too. It's like presenting a car, a novel and a banana, and asking me which of those is my favourite thing.

Poseidon and Discipline are the only ones I can listen to without skipping much. Red's got 12 minutes of tuning, Crimson King's got 12 minutes of tuning, ConstruKction is excellent gym workout music but annoying in any other environment, and Larks' Tongues lacks something crucial but I can't pinpoint what it is.

If this were an Adrian Belew poll it'd be easy.

Oh, this poll is soooo Larks' Tongues, baby.

Okay Red it is, pretending Providence never existed.

G-Bflat-C-C#-Bflat-C
G-Bflat-C-C#-Bflat-C
G-Bflat-C....C#...C...
[clamoring Bruford snare/cymbal fill] F-F# etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrT2jEv_Yws

sadly i voted for ItCotCK, when I know RED or Starless are just as good

itcock

disciplin

in the wop

construkction. simply because it's the only KC album I listen to from start to finish.

there's certainly some great stuff on the other albums, but they're not very consistent, and much skipping is required. I don't think KC have ever really worked in soft balladeering mode.

Matte Kudasai? Inner Garden I & II? One Time? Cadence and Cascade? I Talk to the Wind?

I'm nitpicking, I know.

Oh they haven't worked, not they haven't worked. I see what you mean now.

Court or Discipline, just to be a cunt.

I picked "Starless & Bible Black", I like a load of their records about equally, I just went on which one would I want to listen to now if I had them all in front of me.

Going with Three of a Perfect Pair, but might've easily gone with In the Court Of.. or Discipline or Earthbound.

wait, Earthbound is live, never mind that one.

I really like Providence, I don't think, it's just "tuning"

thank you, thank you, thank you, dear kc thread! you've given me a fab new word -- itcockin'!

and as i'm 'ready here, might as well vote. as well.

done it. i'm all for starless. ('tleast today)

almost impossible to do one overall. i chose lark's because i'm boring but it could just as easily have been red, discipline, or beat

lizard

Wow, thanks for that youtube link up thread. Now I'm watching all these different performances. You could almost do a poll on which live version of Larks' Tongues in Aspic pt.2 is the best.

I finally picked up that McDonald and Giles album from 1971... damn, it's good.

Fracture vs Fractured vs FraKctured vs PhRacTuReD vs FhreacKctuKrceKcd

vs some thing about shaving chickens

Oh god, I appear to only have the wrong ones. In The Court, Poseidon, Lizard, Starless, Beat and Thrak. I have the odd comp too. I really like Poseidon even though it's "Court Pt 2" basically. "Lizard" I quite like too surprisingly.

Oh wait, no I have Islands and Lark's Tongues too. Well I never..

Poseidon is Court pt 2 for the whole of side A. Side B is Mars pt 2.

Gordon Haskell's balls-drop voice on Lizard wears thin after a while. His laughing at the end of the 'hey-ho' song is derisory and has a fascinating story attached to it, but I can't remember what it is.

I like the song "Lizard" a lot.

It has great progression and a well-rounded structure, and Jon Anderson's presence adds an extra dimension just by being there. The mad cacophonous battle phase goes off too.

What's wrong with "Providence"? It's the closest to AMM they ever got.

Providence ruins the flow of an otherwise powerful album, and really is just 8 minutes of people banging stuff.

I wrote one of the worst sentences of all time above, but what I was trying to say was that I think Providence is a great song.

Starless - buying it from a bargin bin in John Menzies, Kirkcaldy sometime in 1975 changed my life.

I'm not sure it's an arguable point that Starless is the best of the Wetton-era records by them. Larks' Tongues is clearly a bit too studio-polished and just about every live recording of those tracks is better than the studio recordings. Red, while wonderful, lacks that sense of frenzied "anything-could-happen-here" improvisation Starless has.

Don't get me wrong: they're ALL good and on some days, I'd prefer the tight, power trio of Red to any of the others -- and clearly "Red" and "Starless" are among the greatest achievements ever associated with KC.

But if you're talking about record filled with high points, from songs ("Great Deceiver") to improvisations ("We'll Let You Know") to demonic instrumentals ("Fracture") to off-the-cuff lyricism ("Trio"), Starless and Bible Black can't be beat.

I wrote one of the worst sentences of all time above, but what I was trying to say was that I think Providence is a great song.

-- Bill Magill, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 23:45 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

On your word I just listened to it again, for the first time in probably 10 years. You're absolutely right.

Perhaps I was confusing it with that extended jamming chunk on side B of ItCoCK.

And now 'Starless' (the track on Red) is getting me all excited. Is there a thread for irregular time signatures? I want to talk about irregular time signatures.

"Starless" is great. As opposed to the album it was named after, which is the worst of their 70s albums.

search: pop songs with weird time signatures and metric shifts

Mmmm, sweet 15/8

TS: "Fracture" vs. "Starless"

Thanks chaki.

Starless & Bible Black spends too much time noodling to be an enduring listen. 50% of it is fantastic though.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

The top 4 are all awesome.

The top 5 are all awesome. Who voted for THRAK? Discuss.

Other than "The Court Of The Crimson King", none of the Top 4 are among their best.

They never got better than on their first four albums, before those wild improvisations became too prominent.

Red! Orright.

For once my favourite of something matches popular opinion.

Thrak >>> Construkction of light

I've never heard Red & now I guess I have to. Surprised "Discipline" didn't get more votes.

In the Wake of Poseidon so much better than
The ConstruKction of Light (2000) 3
THRAK (1995) 2
Three of a Perfect Pair (1984); 2
Lizard (December 1970) 1
The Power to Believe (2003) 1

I've listened to "Discipline" a lot recently. God freakin DAMN, Belew has a wonderful voice. Both spoken word and singing, Matte Kudasai esp but I have a strange love for "Indiscipline" where he's reading out that letter from his wife about the sculpture she hates. Cant put my finger on it, but it really intrigues me.

I actually find the vocals on discipline to be a real stumbling block! if it were instrumental, I would prob love it. I think that's why I listen to don caballero's american don so much - no vox to distract me from concentrating on cool guitar loops. even if belew just never did his spoken word thing... I think that I would like it much more!

I don't think crimson ever really had a great singer, tho. at times, wetton's vox kinda grate on me as well. :-/

I like wetton's and belew's vox in king crimson

I like wetton better than belew, but I just like the 70s records much more than the 80s ones. there are some very cool things going happening on those 80s records, for sure. fripp's playing, especially. but the vox/production on them just really turn me off! bummer.

Sad that Islands got no votes. It's close to my favorite Crimson album.

I don't think crimson ever really had a great singer, tho. at times, wetton's vox kinda grate on me as well. :-/

Very much agree with this. Wetton had a good voice but he regularly sounded like he couldn't hit certain high notes on some songs (One More Red Nightmare comes to mind) and had some trouble regulating his breath on others (The Great Deceiver). Lake was a good singer with an amazing voice, but I don't really think of him as King Crimson. Belew... just ugh. I guess my vote goes for Wetton. Most of the time his rough edges worked well in contrast to the rest of the band imo.

if it were instrumental, I would prob love it.

this is true for me of all crimson. never liked the vocals, in any era. but the music's usually so good that I can just tune them out.

>>Sad that Islands got no votes. It's close to my favorite Crimson album.

Debut or controversial Islands choice for me.

-- Dan Peterson, Monday, October 22, 2007 9:53 PM (8 months ago) Bookmark Link

I almost chose it - it really is a beautiful record - but I've played the debut 10x more, so went with that. Don't currently own "Islands" and I need to rectify that.

beat deserved a vote. that was the first crimson album I ever bought. sometimes it's still my favorite of the three 80's albums too. i credit it for leading me into a lot of literature (which, uh, became cliched and hackneyed by the time I was in college but it was cool when I was just starting high school)

islands is also underrated and gets the shaft. it's far better than the last two albums (even the last three)

boz burrell was their best singer. earthbound!

belew's got a good voice but his intonation on the 80s albums makes me think of a 3rd rate david byrne impersonator.

1. Boz was their best singer?!

2. I am quite surprised the SBB placed third. I much prefer Larks' Tongues and have never managed to "get" anything on SBB, except maybe Great Deceiver for that crazy riff. And Discipline is a really solid album, even though I can never listen to it anymore (I usually pull out Beat if I want 80s Crim).

I hope I voted for Discipline in this poll. I think I did.

Spent a ton on time googling King Crimson info yesterday. Had no idea Islands drummer Ian Wallace had lived in Nashville, that he was such an in-demand session and touring guy in the post KC years, or that he passed away last year (as did Boz Burrell the year before.)

Has anyone heard the Crimson Jazz Trio CD Wallace did?

boz doesn't sound radically different or worse than lake or wetton to me. in fact he sounds a bit like a cross between the two. the worst was gordon haskell, he just hams it up too much on lizard

I was one of the few who liked Boz. Wetton's voice was overproduced as hell-good, but aided by the overuse of studio equipment!

that mcdonald & giles record is pretty good

Earthbound was the crappiest quality live album.

Belew can be a great singer (he's just has a weird singing voice). I enjoy singing Neal, Jack, and Me. And if you heard Side Three, one of his newest albums, check out the track called Men in Helicopters.

But more than anything I want to hear a new King Crimson album that sounds different than the past album and projekcts stuff. They play electric guitars, they should be able to change the sound so it's not the same guitar sound on every album (like a new synth sound the guitar makes). Belew's guitar sounds the same as the guitar from Discipline and Fripp's soundscapes always sound the same. One of the problems I find with their latest releases is that it's too mechanical. Math rock + soundscapes. It's like they remade the track 'discipline' a 1000 times. 'Dangerous Curves' was kinda organic but it was just one of their build up songs like 'The Talking Drum' which is cooler in my opinion. They really need a new sound.

I do enjoy Fripp's soundscapes occasionally. I own 'The Gates of Paradise' which seems like the epitome of his soundscapes and everything since then is essentially the same (mind you I haven't heard every single thing).

I honestly think his heart's in Guitar Craft now, teaching rather than playing. I wonder if he has any KC 40th Anniversary surprises up his sleeve for next year or if the new 2-drummer lineup is it.

Any good live gigs been released by fripp on his own label recently?

Great big King Crimson & related display in the Glasgow Union Street Fopp at the moment, loads of stuff for £5. I'm going to heading along to splurge this week, using this poll's results as part of my buying guide.

you cant go wrong with starting with the top 4.

Not sure what they have, but we shall see what tomorrow's lunch break brings! Hurrah.

The only one I have is Larks' Tongues In Aspic which I've been listening to tonight and really enjoying, so fingers crossed for some worthwhile goodies tomorrow.

Are the 'Collectable King Crimson' sets (which are £7 each) worth getting? Or the two '21st Century Guide To...' box sets, which are £25 a piece?

Getting all of the top 5 votegetters would give you an interesting overview. ha, xpost

justice

these are probably on clearance because yet another round of reissues are coming out next month (surround sound remixes with bonus tracks)... presumably the last versions of these out for at least a couple of years.

Yes, I believe there a fancy CD+DVD remasters coming in September. I'm not up on DVD technology, so the CDs for a fiver sounds good to me, even if they are supposedly out of date within a month.

I cant actually remember if i have discipline on cd. Let me know if that one is there Krakow.

I actually want them to release (if they haven't yet) a live disc from the most recent quintet line-up tour, sort of best-of the Belew era, with the Porcupine Tree drummer tearing it up. At least the best I've heard the band since the double-trio, and probably better (minus lame Trey Gunn).

I've been cherry-picking trax from poseiden, islands, & lizard lately. oh man "formentera lady"

Saw Belew's power trio live at the start of the year (went with the bf and with Autumn Almanac) and he was bloody marvellous. He still does a heap of Crimson songs too.

funnily enough I got this email

40th Anniversary Editions
In 1969 King Crimson's debut album was unleashed upon an unsuspecting public. Its release marked the beginning of a lengthy but unconventional career which has confounded expectations, transgressed boundaries and has kept fans and critics alike on their toes.

To celebrate 40 years of the Crimson Kings, DGM & Panegyric proudly announce the release of a series of CD/DVD-A editions of the original King Crimson studio albums. http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=2529

Each CD/DVD-A release features the full original album plus bonus tracks on the CD. Two of the titles – Lizard & In the Court of the Crimson King feature entirely new 2009 stereo album mixes by Steven Wilson & Robert Fripp.

The DVD-A presents each album fully remixed into stunning 5.1 Surround Sound with Steven Wilson (Porcupine Tree) in the producer role and King Crimson founder member Robert Fripp as executive producer.

The first three titles are set for release this year with further titles to follow throughout 2010:

Red: September 21st 2009
In the Court of the Crimson King: October 12th 2009 (various editions)
Lizard: October 26th 2009

The (re)construction of a vintage Frippertronics gig
Alex "Stormy" Mundy has pieced together a stunning Frippertronics from 1981. "I managed to sync up the solos with the loops which were on separate reels" says Alex. "The only guide that I had was that you could hear the loops from Robert's guitar pickup when he wasn’t soloing." Fripp's soloing has a blistering urgency to it and the results (both sonically and musically) are devastatingly good. An absolute must-have for Frippertronics fans.
http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=25&show=1662

Disengage Online EP
In the run-up to the recording of Exposure in 1977, Robert Fripp asked John Wetton and Phil Collins to join him in the studio to try out track he was working on.

Consisting of four different takes of the same track, we get to hear the anatomy of Disengage as it begins to breath and stretch. It's interesting to hear each musician trying out little experiments, pockets, retreats and chancing the occasional headlong thrust as the temperature rises or the inclination takes them.

Not all of it us quite yet under their fingertips so we hear the musicians listening to the parts, their own groove, and the others in the room - though not always in that order. And how about that brief break-out solo from Robert on version 2. Phew! Never mind what might have been - here it is!

At only $2 FLAC / $1 mp3 for over 12 minutes worth of music you’d be mad not to download this one.
http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=22&show=1666

The Mincer Restored
King Crimson
Live in Zurich
November 15, 1973

When the track The Mincer appeared on Starless & Bible Black it represented a new way of approaching the process for Crimson; taking live improvisations and then editing and over-dubbing new parts to create an interesting hybrid.

In an exclusive interview, Crimson violinist David Cross talks about this approach in the liner notes to this concert.

Although parts of this show recorded at Zurich’s Volkhaus on the 15th November 1973 have been previously released on disc 4 of The Great Deceiver box set, this is the first time the entire performance that night has seen the light of day.

Using bootleg sources to restore that section of the gig originally excised to create The Mincer, David Singleton and Alex Mundy have recreated an evening of music which underscores Crimson’s reputation as one of the classic must-see live acts of the 70s.

This double album is available for pre-order now at DGMLive
https://www.dgmlive.com/shop/cgi-bin/shoplink.cgi?id=1097

That Mincer disc sounds possibly interesting. DGMlive.com doesn't seem to be functional however.

I'm going for another look at Fopp today, so I'll let you know if Discipline is there pfunkboy.

Yes, Discipline is there.

I am now listening to "In The Court Of The Crimson King". I shall be proceeding in discography order.

I'd say if you ever hit an album that puts you off or that you don't like, go ahead an move onto the next one because they're very rarely consistent for a long period of time (well this is true for the first four or five anyway; I basically mean, "don't let Lizard put you off')

Haha, my friend just said pretty much the same thing to me, but with Islands instead of Lizard.

id avoid both for now

I give you a total pass for getting off the wagon after Thrak though

3 people disaree with you

The ConstruKction of Light (2000) 3

been meaning lately to hear the stuff between the debut and the settling down into the bruford/wetton/cross/fripp lineup

'frame by frame' is proving surprisingly earworm-ish lately, despite my only having heard it twice. it's kind of annoying, actually.

also, i know it's been said on this board more than once lately, but i did listen to another green world lately, and fripps appearances on that is kind of sublime. & probably what convinced me he's a genuinely valuable musical intelligence, and not just a bunch of chops on a stool

I'd say if you ever hit an album that puts you off or that you don't like, go ahead an move onto the next one because they're very rarely consistent for a long period of time (well this is true for the first four or five anyway; I basically mean, "don't let Lizard put you off')
― akm, Wednesday, August 5, 2009 10:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

listen to every single studio album king crimson ever made. that's the only advice I can give you. any other advice would be wrong... even their weakest albums have 1 or 3 tracks worth listening to.

king crimson is so patchy. their albums are usually a mix of klunkers and gems. it's true that the albums I listen to least are 90's and beyond.. but that just means there is a larger klunker to gem ratio.

It kinda sucks that you are just now getting into King Crimson before the next batch of remasters come out Krakow.. but I understand

the last batch of remasters sounded very, very good though, good enough that I'm not that tempted by the new ones since I dont' do surround.

'frame by frame' is proving surprisingly earworm-ish lately

I get that a lot from that song. From a lot of the tracks on Discpline and 3 of a perfect pair, actually - Sleepless also gets stuck in my mind a lot.

In fact hell I think I'll put Discipline on my headphones right now.

I just assumed there was going to be something more to the remasters than just surround when I was reading Fripp's diaries like this one.

or this from that e-mail that was posted a little bit above: "Each CD/DVD-A release features the full original album plus bonus tracks on the CD. Two of the titles – Lizard & In the Court of the Crimson King feature entirely new 2009 stereo album mixes by Steven Wilson & Robert Fripp."

haha i am now listening to discipline also

it kind of confirms what i felt when i heard 'frame by frame' in the other thread, that as a group they were interested in the sorts of new noises made available by the advances in technology of the time - ott digital fx, chapman stick, bruford mic'd differently, er adrian belew - but didn't really know what to do with them - the elephant/mouse/whatever noises on 'elephant talk' are pretty awesome noises, but they kind of show up and go 'look, we can make this noise' rather than musically going anywhere with them

Yeah Belew was a bit guilty of that "lol elephants, listen" thing with his guitar for a while there.

On youtube there's some japanese ads for Maxell or TDK or some shit where he's making said animal noises and there's real elephants and whatever looking puzzled while he goofs around in front of them like he usually does. Its endearingly bizzare.

Regarding the forthcoming reissues, I had a brief think before realising that fancy surround sound and DVD Audio gubbins doesn't interest me at all, so I'll happily rather take the previous lot of straight CD remasters for a fiver than wait a couple of months and pay top whack for a freshly minted bunch.

I must have listened to "In the Court of the Crimson King" about 5-6 times last night and this morning - I love it, especially the title track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD09qQjHXsw

quonytail!

i am disappointed the elephant appears to not actually be in the room with him : (

if i'd have known of this poll, i'd have prob voted poseidon

"your mother's quite insane"

Seriously though, "Poseidon" might be "Court" part 2, but it's a better album. No "Moonchild" for a start, and "Cat Food" is a fun little song instead. I remember being blown away first time I heard that album.

I much prefer "Moonchild' to Poseidon's "Devil's Triangle" these days.

I bought discipline today in fopp for £5

WTF Moonchild is great.

Apparently Fripp himself now feels it was 3 minutes too long. But "Devil's Triangle" coulda been tightened a bit too. Really, KC never did make that album that satisfied me fully, which might be the reason I never voted

surprised fripp would feel that way and not also think "construktion of light" was 30 minutes too long, which it is.

construktion of shite

That album wins the "worst KC vocals ever" category.

yeah it is totally irritating. there are some good songs on there, kind of (barely). the next one was better. I've said elsewhere, I really wish KC would move back toward the clean sound of the 80's albums or do something completely different, going back to "Red" and rewriting it hundreds of times is pretty boring.

Tonight's instalment is "In The Wake Of Poseidon".

Not grabbing me anything like as immediately as "In The Court Of...", but I enjoyed 'Cat Food' and b-side 'Groon' a lot. Just about to start a second spin.

those are maybe the most interesting things on it. cat food is really overlooked, I kind of wish the current lineup would try playing it.

the title track is epic but maybe not quite up to Epitaph

the title track sounds exactly like a cross b/w epitaph and in the court!

the worst thing about the album is the horrible cover art.

"Groon" - Boris covered that.

I never got into The Wake of Poseidon really. (It's still to this date the only king crimson studio LP I never purchased - oh and The Construkction of Light - I pirated that album). I do have Frame by Frame box set which has all the best Poseidon stuff anyways plus the last disc has great live versions. Not that I listen to the Frame by Frame box set very often.

If you're like me, you'll like Lizard and Islands more than Poseidon. ITCOTCK is the best of the first 4, imo - on first listens the title track was my favorite but now my favorite song is either "Epitaph" or "I Talk to the Wind"). Also "Moonchild" is quite lovely. I like to consider myself a "Moonchild" since I was born slightly past midnight during a full moon in late June.

Once you get to Starless and Bible Black and Red you'll be having quite a bit of fun.

BTW, 21st Century Schizoid man is going to be on Guitar Hero 5.

xpost, I was just wondering if that were the case as I listened...

Lizard has been the one that's grown on me the most over the years.

lizard is pretty let down by haskell's vocals which are markedly different and more dramatic than on "cadence and cascade", and the presence of jon anderson.

the worst thing about the album is the horrible cover art.

really? i love it

Last night we got a copy of Belew's new album "E" in the post, from Tennesee. Bf then pointed out that the customs shipping declaration was actually signed by Adrian himself.

What a dude!

Yeah, he lives right outside Nashville.

Tonight it's the controversial "Lizard".

Tonight you are going to be David Icke?

how did you get on with Lizard?

It was OK. It didn't set me alight, but I certainly didn't think it was bad in any way, pretty good in fact, but no "In The Court Of...".

It is better than Islands.

Larks Tongue in Aspic is my favorite, but Lizard is criminally underrated. Cirkus and the title track make that thing amazing.

i like lizard best for sure. "cirkus (including entrance of the chameleons" is an even better lead off than "21st century schizoid man." as great as that song is, "cirkus" overwhelms me less but sticks in my craw more somehow. and why would someone knock jon anderson's "prince rupert awakens" vocals? i can only chalk that up to not enough love for the cheerful insanity of giles, giles, and fripp

Having a listen to http://www.last.fm/music/King+Crimson/USA just now.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/Steven-Wilson-On-Remixing-King-Crimson-20442.aspx

some interesting stuff about the remixing project.

(and some Lizard love)

I'm interested to hear what krakow thinks of Islands, because that's another getting-off-the-bus point for people. it's good though, I didn't appreciate it until I heard the live stuff from the same band.

That's up next. Might try it tonight, depending on how things go.

Primer in The Wire this month.

Yeah, by Joseph Stannard who is one of their metalheads. So I fear he's going to rep for the 90s stuff (Construkction of Light, Thrak, Power to Believe, which I find pretty unbearable.

I also think Crimson is kind of a safe and obvious choice for a Wire Primer, but maybe that's just me.

I suspect stannard would laugh in your face if you called him a metalhead.

He was editor of Terrorizer you know

yes, I know. but he is no longer editor of terrorizer, largely because he tried to broaden the remit beyond metal.

haven't read the article yet, but I know that stannard has seriously broad taste - and, pertinent in this context, he really knows and loves his prog. don't be afeared.

(as it happens, construkction is my own personal favourite),

Maybe I should pick that Wire up then.

I just saw this thread bumped and think I might have to get Red. I've never heard it; I have In The Court, Lark's Tongues, and Starless, but that's it. I remember having Thrak a while ago, but I don't seem to anymore. I don't think I sold it, but if some poor schlub roommate "borrowed" it off of me, I guess a just penance is to have to carry it around.

(as it happens, construkction is my own personal favourite),

Really? I gave it a couple of tries around the time of release, but I couldn't take it...and I generally give even dubious Crim a pretty wide latitude. What are the standout tracks on Construkction in your opinion?

FWIW I thought the Power to believe was an improvement, but they really need a rethinking of the band if they're to continue.

i'm sure mr. fripp will take your recommendation under advisement

What are the standout tracks on Construkction in your opinion?

genuinely believe that 'into the frying pan' is all-time top-5 crim

prozakc blues and frakctured are pretty good too. as is the coda. title-track has the single worst line in lyrical history, but i'll let y'guys find it for yourselves

i mean some days 'into the frying pan' is second behind 21CSM

I just saw this thread bumped and think I might have to get Red

Definitely, it's their most cohesive and powerful album. Now is the time to get it as well, what with it having been remastered by S Wilson out of Porcupine Tree and with a bonus DVD of rare live footage or something.

I'd be most grateful if they included the Red-era band actually performing Red live.

Really? I gave it a couple of tries around the time of release, but I couldn't take it...and I generally give even dubious Crim a pretty wide latitude. What are the standout tracks on Construkction in your opinion?

frakctured, larks' tongues IV and the title track are all great (terrible but affable lyrics aside). the ping-pong interplay between the guitars is incredible on this album. it mostly seems to be based on the conceit that fripp and belew play the usual complex riffs, but alternate notes are split between them. it sounds pretty abstract if you hear the two guitars as existing in their own space, but if you take their combined interplay as one melodic line it makes a lot more sense.

I really love KC, but can't abide them in gentle balladeering mode. they're at their best at full force, and construkction is pretty relentless on that score. no songs on here are quite as good as schizoid man or larks tongues' pt 1, or red, but overall its their most consistent album for me. I do like power to believe as well - level five is fantastic - but it's a bit more patchy.

I'd be most grateful if they included the Red-era band actually performing Red live.

― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion)

Unfortunately this never happened. They finished a US tour in mid-74, fired David Cross, went into the studio and recorded Red, and disbanded before the album came out without playing anymore live shows.

Yes indeed, but I have hope that they've been holding out on us for all these years.

Adrian Crimson could have stopped as soon as they made their first album and played 'Red' live as far as I'm concerned. I like the guy as a guitarist but just cannot fucking abide his singing and lyrics.

i hear you but there are a couple of songs where his vocal style works, like "thela hun ginjeet"

Yes-- somehow on that first record it all works.

I like his voice (at least in the 70s/80s), and like about a third of his lyrics. He's kinda fearless as a singer, likes to hold long notes -- "City of Tiny Lites," "Three of a Perfect Pair" -- it can be irritating if you're not engaged with the lyric.

his work on the 80's albums are good and so are many of his solo records, but he's been crummy in the last few crimson records, but the recrods haven't been great either. I feel like there isn't enough of his influence in the music these days.

as I mentioned above, I find KC's vocals pretty bad, no matter who's at the mic. but the vocals are such a minimal and irrelevant part of how I hear them that it really doesn't matter.

So where do you all stand on the Projekcts? I recall getting into Space Groove some while ago, but never followed up on them...

The ProjeKcts are great. Groovy, avant and inspired. They show what Fripp can still do when he puts his mind to it, and it bothers me that he wouldn't think of putting that stuff out under the Crimson name. For someone who professes to be into countering listeners' expectations, he does seem to rather fall back into overfamiliar modes when he puts something out as KC.

Interesting-- I always thought the point of the Projekcts was to develop new material for Crim. Now that I think of it, I did end up seeing one of them (the Fripp/Levin/Gunn/Mastoletto config) and thinking it was pretty decent. I mostly remember that they flubbed their way through VROOOM. Somehow it was refreshing to hear them blow it.

I always thought the point of the Projekcts was to develop new material for Crim

I'm sure that was the idea, yes. But in practice I don't think many of the ProjeKcts' innovations made their way into later KC.

just listened to wake of poseidan last night...never heard it before cuz for some reason i had the idea it was a "bad" one...but damn i really liked it!

it's really extreme in its progginess, like the pretty ren faire parts are super extra fancy even by greg lake standards and then the fucked up skronk (like most of side 2) is even really more fucked up than anything on crimson king....plus a couple of parts that seemed like they were going for some mutant odd meter funk type grooves or something

think i need to get into Crimson. All I have is Court of the Crimson King. Where to next!?

you'd prolly dig poseidan if you like court.....

i think "red" is considered one of the best by nearly everyone. a little more skronk and less fancy than the court/wake era

Larks' Tongues in Aspic
USA
Discipline

cool, thanks! some prog dude i know was raving about some live Zoom Club show? but he didn't have a copy! is it good? he said there was some 45 minute Fripp jamz or something.

in the wake of poseidon is def underrated

You've barely scratched the surface. I guess it depends on what you thought of Court. Personally I'm not a fan of that album and side by the mid-70s John Wetton records onwards.

Download/buy Red or if you've ever enjoyed Remain in Light, just one bit, then head for Discipline which has Adrian Belew from that THeads line up on second guitar and vocals. It's like Remain in Light x PROG INTRICACY!

The old prog review site Ground and Sky has good overviews of their whole back catalogue and is worth checking out.

And on Matt's note, I should check out Poseidon myself. Fucked up skronk, odd-metered funk grooves - - sign me up.

i like court ok, but i've been told the same thing by other fans -- that it's not very representative of the other stuff ...

Discipline which has Adrian Belew from that THeads line up on second guitar and vocals. It's like Remain in Light x PROG INTRICACY!

this description is 100X OTM but is also being a little kind to Crimson by neglecting to point out to you the fact that Adrian Belew is one of the most annoying vocalists of all time (to me)

that said, it's still cool, but i've posted several times here that an all-instrumental mix of Discipline would be soooo awesome.

All talk. It's only talk!! His voice is an acquired taste, like all Crimson vocalists in fact.

There's tons of avant-rock out there which is akin to an instrumental Discipline...Orthrelm, Zs, Marnie Stern (who uses vocals more as another instrument/texture I think), and from earlier on, Univers Zero and Happy Family.

this description is 100X OTM but is also being a little kind to Crimson by neglecting to point out to you the fact that Adrian Belew is one of the most annoying vocalists of all time (to me)

that said, it's still cool, but i've posted several times here that an all-instrumental mix of Discipline would be soooo awesome.

http://svenjaplaas.ch/wp-content/uploads/otm_visitenkarten_2.jpg

Each to his own taste...I don't have a problem with Belew's vocals. (His lyrics are another matter.)

yeah in fairness king crimson wasn't exactly a showcase band for Super Awesome Vocalists (but still at least greg lake, who is a douche, is a douche in sort of a "standard"-ish prog way, belew is just grating to me)

there should probably be a Prog Douche picture thread

never a fan of elp but there's something about lake's vocals for king crimson....so dreamy lol. except when he's doing the heavily distorted schizoid/cat food thing, which is also cool

don't really have a problem with greg lake vox. like you say, pretty standard prog fare. I honestly can't even remember much about his vox offhand.

wetton can grate ("health food faggot") but is (mostly) easy enough to ignore. esp when KC get into long jams.

belew's vox are just too front-and-center for me. all the vocal ticks, studio effects, and the spoken word delivery. just find him really distracting and the david byrne comparisons I can't help but make don't really do him any favors. which is too bad because the music from this era is really cool!

not too familiar with the other eras.

so, I guess I admire KC vocalists who are easy to ignore.

tylerw, King Crimson is at it's best when you look at the individual tracks - not albums.
However, Red is pretty standout, get that one. And I would get Lizard before I ever get In The Wake
80s era - get discipline first
90s era and beyond - how about Construkction of Light first

Thrak > Constukction of Light, but only venture into the post-discipline stuff once you're certain you adore this band, of course.

But is this moot, when you can download an entire band's discography from google/torrents in minutes?

Plus, I've always seen 90s Crimson as a reiteration or summation of all they've done, KC comfort food if you will.

is there a career-spanning KC comp? does someone want to make me one? :D

Larks Tongues, S&BB, Red are easily best 3-in-a-rom Crims. The Belew albums really aren't bad (and Discipline is really good), but yeah, I think Fripp must have thought he'd stumbled on a real front man, because he seems to have given AB a lot of room in the band "mix". The funny thing is that one of the best things about the 80s (and 90s) band is AB's guitar playing. I really started appreciating his contributions when I saw them live circa Thrak-- AB is taking most of the "complicated" sounding stuff, and all of the solos. As a vocalist (and lyricist) he's pretty annoying on record, but live, he kind of glues everything together.

Also very tempting to think of KC w/Daryl Hall or David Byrne fronting.

x-post, also otm to think of KC as a tracks band, as opposed to albums. All albums contain skip-worthy tracks, tho just about all of them have classics too.

or peter hammill!

OK I've tried many times in the past but a KC comp is definitely something within my purview. I am setting to work forthwith...though I don't see it being less than 3 discs...

Shocked to see that, other than via the Children of Men soundtrack, there is no King Crimson on iTunes at all!

ha! I totally support Fripp being anal about itunes in that case

fuck itunes

Sparkle Motion, I'd love to hear the results of your KC mix attempt!

(also thought the use of KC in Children of Men was kinda awesome)

Well, uh, sometimes iTunes can be very useful for sampling shit before you buy. So, uh, fuck Fripp. It'll save me money.

(joeks btw)

well, you already bought this, right? http://www.amazon.com/Court-Crimson-King-Box-Set/dp/B002M3GPOI
$150!

I did! Except the used vinyl version that only contains the original album. That's all the KC I've been exposed to and I'm considering diving in.

yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. It's funny because I feel like I have a ton of Robert Fripp (either his own stuff or guesting on other people's albums) ... but barely anything by his "main" band. not sure who else i could say that about.

I started trying to list essential songs of King Crimson but then I realized that a greatest hits is way too subjective. For instance, on Lark's Tongue in Aspic I think 'Book of Saturday' and 'Exiles' are great *especially exiles* but I care a lot less for 'Easy Money' and 'Talking Drum'. But I imagine many people who love most all the jammy King Crim stuff would include 'Easy Money' and 'Talking Drum' - and maybe even specific live version. 'Book of Saturday' is a turn off to people who don't like Wetton's voice I suppose. I like the complex singing melody on that song (and instrumentation) and I have no qualms with Wetton's voice. 'Exiles' is also a pretty, non-jammy Crimson tune. I think 'Exiles' is essential to a greatest hits cd but some might leave it off. All this subjectivity is making me say "go ahead and listen to everything King Crimson did starting with the albums we already mentioned". I realize that may be harder to do if you can't find a way to hear the songs before you buy them (assuming you are not a pirater).

I can actually say that before I started pirating music I bought every King Crimson studio album except In The Wake of Poseidon and maybe a couple eps from the 90's era on. So Fripp has no reason to hate me (I think)

BTW, here's a pretty wacky Fripp song if you haven't heard it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCADnoAHli8

yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. It's funny because I feel like I have a ton of Robert Fripp (either his own stuff or guesting on other people's albums) ... but barely anything by his "main" band. not sure who else i could say that about.

Yep, pretty much my position exactly.

My first KC album was a compilation, the 2LP Young Person's Guide to King Crimson. It was a great starting point to the extent that it whetted my appetite for more and eventually I succumbed and got them all. Plus, it had a great booklet with loads of diary entries, contemporary reviews and sarky Fripp comments on them. Well worth picking up if you can find it. Failing that the most recent 2CD comp The Condensed 21st Century Guide to King Crimson does the job.

I used to have Young Person's Guide. It's a pretty eccentric collection; many abridged versions, the "Cat Food"/"Groon" single, alternate "Talk to the Wind" with Judy Dyble singing, and no "Schizoid Man"?!?!

Each album seems to me so much its own entity, the calm bits balancing the bombast, that it's hard to extract highlights.

The Frame by Frame box did it for me (which I found at the public library back then). It still holds up as a pretty good representation, plus the booklet was massive, including a gatefold diagram of every band that every member of the pre-80s Crim was ever in, and how they were related.

Subjectivity is clouding my judgement in my rapidly expanding compilation (currently at 4 discs worth)... I just hope I can finish it before everyone loses interest or I get lost in Bible Blackness.

yeah, the frame by frame box set was the only way I ever got into In The Wake of Poseidon - because of the live tracks on disc 4. somehow I own this because I never gave it back to my friend before he moved

I look forward to criticizing your compilation (you don't have this! blah blah blah)

alternate "Talk to the Wind" with Judy Dyble singing

!!! I did not know this and now I have to find this 2LP.

It's really Giles, Giles and Fripp, so predates the debut KC LP. It's, I think, the same version on that GG&F Brondesbury Tapes collection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1aPE9CdQX0

Ah, while we're at it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN1TX0Eobig

Didn't Frame by Frame also feature a wierd version of Lady of the Dancing water with Belew singing?

i think it was cadence and cascade - gordon haskell's vocals were replaced, i think he and fripp have a long-standing feud over money

Oh that's right. I barely remember as I was just getting into them at the time and couldn't really tell why it mattered to begin with. The perverse thing is that Fripp considers Belew his favorite of all of KC's vocalists... a position I'd like to try and talk him out of.

is it possible to have a King Crimson thread/revive without complaints about vocalists? lol

In my comp research I've been revisiting Lizard, specifically mp3s of the new stereo remaster from late last year. It's pretty amazing, much more layered and nuanced than I remember it. I've always thought it was a really dense sounding record, but this version has so much space that it puts all that musical information in a context I never heard before. Of course, my previous copy was an Editions EG cassette that I bought out of a cutout bin at Sam Goody nearly 20 years ago.

Anyway, I think Lizard is probably better than either of the albums surrounding it.

I don't own any surroundsound hardware, but yeah, from everything I've read Lizard is a state-of-the-art remaster done right. Want to hear.

And I wish they would do this to Islands. It's actually my second most listened to KC (had that and the debut for YEARS before filling in the gaps with Poseidon and Lizard), and I really do love it.

He worked on stereo mixes of Poseidon and Islands early this month.

http://www.dgmlive.com/diaries.htm?artist=&show=&member=3&entry=16492

Diary entries for the 6th-8th.

Surround mix for Poseidon, but just stereo remaster of Islands? (If I'm reading that correctly...)

Backing up a day to the 5th --

Our intended work this week is to mix / re-mix Poseidon in 5.1 & stereo, and re-mix Islands & Larks’ in stereo; both of the latter have already been mixed in 5.1. Poseidon has the disadvantage that we have not been able to find the original pre-bounce tracks. So, we can’t access the original individual mellotron parts. The main mellotron parts on Poseidon – the song is mixed together with acoustic guitar on a stereo pair; drums & bass are also on a stereo pair. Devil’s Triangle is missing lots of its constituent parts. Nevertheless, we have been able to significantly improve Peace, Pictures of a City, Cadence, Cat Food & Groon

Awesome, thanks. As I said, I'm a surroundsound Luddite, but this interests me!

Fripp's been talking about surround mixes since Thrak came out. It's cool that it's finally happening. I only wish I had a setup that could accomodate.

I now humbly present for your wonderment and ridicule, Volume One of SOMETIMES GOD DIES, A Subjective Inquiry into the Peculiar Nature of the Music of King Crimson, and Any Appeal Attendant Thereto.

V1 is titled "Get Thy Bearings" and covers material from the first 4 albums. Any and all are welcome to webmail me for more info until hosting can be arranged or I get the go-ahead to post the link here.

BTW, I have decided to title each Volume (there will be 4) after a song that does not appear on the comp.

Suffice to say I have completely geeked out on this since getting the notion to do it.

sounds great!

as for hosting... how about mediafire or a site like that?

Yeah, I had a snag last night, will re-up to mediafire. I guess I didn't know after the whole YSI thing whether it was still cool to post links to downloads here or not.

since it's a mix instead of full albums... I would think it's fine?

no idea about other mods, but I wouldn't have any objection.

Very good, I'll post the link when I get home this evening.

In the meantime, enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liWGp37npZU

OK, here's the link to part one.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/dm35lolrnjm/V1_Bearings.zip

I own most of the KC catalog. Big fan of Court and Red. But the only two I spin all the way through with years of regularity are Starless and Thrak.

wow, loving the attention to detail you put into this comp (detailed liner notes! high bitrate mp3s! live versions!). this is awesome and I'm totally psyched for the rest. thanks!!

awwwwesome. thanks! this is exactly what i need!

This is the tracklisting BTW:

Vol. 1: Get Thy Bearings (1969-1972)

1. Peace, A Beginning - In the Wake of Poseidon, 1970 (Issue: Editions EG CD)
2. 21st Century Schizoid Man - Epitaph Volume 2, rel. 1997, rec. 14th December 1969 at the Fillmore West, San Francisco (Issue: DGM CD)
3. The Court of the Crimson King - In the Court of the Crimson King, 1969 (Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster)
4. Peace, A Theme - In the Wake of Poseidon, 1970 (Issue: Editions EG CD)
5. Cat Food - In the Wake of Poseidon, 1970 (Issue: Editions EG CD)
6. A Man, A City (aka Pictures of a City) - Epitaph Volume 2, rel. 1997, rec. 14th December 1969 at the Fillmore West, San Francisco (Issue: DGM CD)
7. Happy Family - Lizard, 1970 (Issue: DGM 40th Anniversary Remaster)
8. Cirkus - Lizard, 1970 (Issue: DGM 40th Anniversary Remaster)
9. Groon - Live at Summit Studios, Denver, rel. 2000, rec. 1972 (Issue: DGM KC Collectors Club CD)
10. Peace, An End - In the Wake of Poseidon, 1970 (Issue: Editions EG CD)
11. Formentera Lady - Islands, 1971 (Issue: Editions EG CD)
12. The Sailor's Tale - Islands, 1971 (Issue: Editions EG CD)

In my research for subsequent volumes I've been listening to the Central Park show from '74, aka the last KC show ever (until the 80s). It starts out pretty standard but gains in intensity until a truly blistering finale. The power is sufficient to overcome the bootleg recording for sure. Some of it will definitely find its way on there.

Just listened to Cirkus. What a weird, disturbing piece of music (esp. to hear at work!)

Yeah, this project has made me really dig into Lizard and Cirkus in particular.

I own it, but it's a beat-to-death LP I inherited from a friend and I almost never play it. Definitely the one I've spent the least time with of the first 4.

so, apparently I have to get epitaph vol 2. love the two live tracks off of it.

Epitaph Vols 1&2 is just the name for the 2-disc set...it's pretty sweet.

Tracks:
Volume One:
BBC Radio Sessions
1. 21st. Century Schizoid Man
2. In The Court of the Crimson King
3. Get Thy Bearings
4. Epitaph

Fillmore East, New York:
22 November 1969
5. A Man, A City
6. Epitaph
7. 21st. Century Schizoid Man

Fillmore West, San Francisco:
15 December 1969
8. Travel Weary Capricorn
9. Mars

Volume Two:
Fillmore West, San Francisco:
16 December 1969
1. In The Court of the Crimson King
2. Drop In
3. A Man, A City
4. Epitaph
5. 21st. Century Schizoid Man
6. Mars

From an (evidently Babelfished) review of Earthbound:

About the recording's quality, my view is comfortably indisposed by the general flash cleanse miss, which makes music to be as sophisticated as it wants, but of minimal, chopped beauty. The recordings is badly scratching the ears, making out of a hard-listening default pleasure a fight to resist the album.

In my research for V.2 (BTW V.1 got 19 downloads-to me that's an impressive number), I'm listening to stuff from the Beat Club and Zoom Club releases, looking at Muir's contribution to the band. Anyway some of the material is tantalizing, but on the whole the recording quality ranges from bad to terrible. So my question is this: is the recording quality a sufficient enough distraction to cancel out the interesting properties of the material. I know as a fan I like hearing this stuff even if I'm listening through a massive layer of fuzz, but I do feel like newer listeners may just not want to bother.

in the king crimson epics poll, I listed a lot of improvs that are really long as shit and easy to find on soulseek so it is worth checking out

i'm a big bootleg fan, so i certainly can turn a blind eye to less than perfect recording quality. I mean, some of my favorite things in the world are Velvets bootlegs and some of those are pretty dire.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably have V.2 & V.3 up by this weekend.

I would totally like to hear the bootleg stuff because I never would search it out myself otherwise!

I almost dl'ed the Zoom Club show but then thought "eh, shitty audience recording, life's too short for this"

The Zoom club recording is dreadful. I may use part of it and try to sweeten it a bit w/ EQ. Even as a "for fans only" release it has only limited value.

finally getting a chance to delve into "Get Thy Bearings" -- sounding awesome so far. Thanks again for putting it together.

Available soon:

SOMETIMES GOD DIES

Volume 2: Exiles (1972-74)

1. Lark's Tongues in Aspic, Part I Lark's Tongues in Aspic (1973)
2. The Great Deceiver Starless and Bible Black (1974)
3. Easy Money The Night Watch (rel. 1997, rec. 23 November, 1973 at the Concertgebouw, Amsterdam)
4. The Mincer Starless and Bible Black (1974)
5. Improv: Fallen Angel * Live at the Zoom Club (rel. 2002, rec. 13th October, 1972 at the Zoom Club, Frankfurt)
6. Edit- Improv: Daniel Dust/The Night Watch**
7. Improv: The Rich Tapestry of Life The Beat Club, Bremen (rel. 1999, rec. 17th October, 1972 at the Beat Club, Bremen)
8. The Talking Drum*** Live in Central Park, NYC (rel. 2000, rec. 1st July, 1974 at Central Park, New York City)
9. Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part II Lark's Tongues in Aspic (1973)

Link up shortly

BTW, I have decided to title each Volume (there will be 4) after a song that does not appear on the comp

Just wondering why you've chosen to do this. No criticism intended, they're your comps, just wonderin'. --~~~~

It was a humorous response to this inevitable situation:

I look forward to criticizing your compilation (you don't have this! blah blah blah)

― CaptainLorax, Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:25 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

The title of the set is a knock on the DGM comps that came out some years ago, 'Sometimes God Hides' etc...

With that I give you Volume 2

http://www.mediafire.com/?kxzmrz33ymo

I'm enjoying these quite a bit, because I've never paid much attention to the pre-Larks Tongues albums.

xp

yeah, I totally called it though :)
I think 'Book of Saturday' and 'Exiles' are great *especially exiles* but I care a lot less for 'Easy Money' and 'Talking Drum'. But I imagine many people who love most all the jammy King Crim stuff would include 'Easy Money' and 'Talking Drum' - and maybe even specific live version.

you didn't have space for a live version of 'starless' I take it. maybe it can be a bonus track that fits in the 90's+ cd.

This was my favorite track from the ProjeKcts box set: ProjeKct 3 - Masque part 8

you didn't have space for a live version of 'starless' I take it.

Haha it's uncanny how much you nailed my preferences... I never did intend to put 'book of saturday' on (which was my original title of this volume), but did work to find room for Exiles, but couldn't. Easy Money was to be represented by the truncated version that goes into "It is for you, but not for us", which I felt had elements of the gentler side of the group as well as being jammy. Sadly it was not to be.

I guess I knew starless was one of their "structured improvs" but I thought there would be more versions of it out there. Then again Red was right before King Crimson disbanded in the 70s

ehhh, my bad.
'starless' was performed several times during the 74 according to wiki and collector's club 10, 15, 29, 36 have starless for instance

my bad at calling 'starless' a "structured improv" as well. i was thinking of 'starless and bible black'.
i need to slow down and think before i post stuff

Wikipedia tells this story:

The lyrics and melody for "Starless" were written by John Wetton. He originally intended the song to be the title track of the group's previous album Starless and Bible Black. Fripp and Bruford initially disliked the song and declined to record it for that album. Instead the group chose an instrumental composition as the title track for the Starless and Bible Black album. However, "Starless" was later revived, its lyrics altered and a long instrumental section (based on a bass riff contributed by Bruford) added to it, and performed live between March-June 1974. For the Red recording sessions, the lyrics were again altered (with contributions by Richard Palmer-James). The haunting introductory theme, originally contributed and played by David Cross, was taken over by the guitar, with Fripp making minor alterations to the melody. As the title "Starless and Bible Black" had already been used, the original title was shortened to "Starless".

There are a couple of Starlesses on the Great Deceiver and the SABB on the album of the same name comes from the concert documented on The Night Watch.

so far i'm only about two tracks in to vol 1 but can i already just say a big THANK YOU sparkle motion, this is an awesome treat.

the live version of schizoid man kinda brings everything the album track doesn't

Glad I could contribute! Hope you enjoy the rest.

seconding the big thank you -- I've listened to the first volume and loved it. Agree, the live Schizoid Man is the early highlight for me! Smokes!

can't believe they didn't want to record starless originally, it is easily in the top five KC songs ever.

Coming Soon:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2756/4348308564_0a3ce48b4a_o.jpg
SOMETIMES GOD DIES VOL. 3: THE LAW OF MAXIMUM DISTRESS (1974)

Crap. I'm having problems completing an upload to mediafire...will try again this evening...

Ok, here it is:

Volume 3: The Law of Maximum Distress

Nice, thanks for all of these!

listened to vol. 2 on the way to work! great stuff -- digging the improv-y things. also attempting to get my bearings via the KC wiki page -- what a tangled web of lineups! jeez.

Glad you're getting into 'em--v2 and especially v3 are true labors of love...V3 contains my absolute fave stuff, though the mix itself was the hardest to sequence. I'm about 70% done with the final volume on the 81 and onward group.

However I have found enough fun live stuff cutting across the 40+ years to do a 5th bonus volume if the interest is there....

i would be into a live comp ...

That's all the excuse I needed.

What's the tracklist of Volume 3: The Law of Maximum Distress

big thanks for the comps...enjoying them immensely. quite a lot of stuff I know already, albeit sometimes in other forms, but they're very nicely put together and sequenced.

Volume 3: The Law of Maximum Distress (1974)

1. Red from Red (1974)
Issue: DGM 40th Anniversary Remaster CD

2. Asbury Park from USA (rel. 1975, rec. 28 June 1974, Asbury Park NJ)
Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster

3. Improv: Is There Life Out There? from The Great Deceiver (rel. 1992, rec. 29 June 1974, Penn State University, University Park PA)
Issue: Discipline/Caroline CD

4. Improv: The Savage / Doctor Diamond from Live in Mainz, (rel. 2001, rec. 30 March 1974, Mainz Germany)
Issue: DGM KC Collectors Club CD

5. Improv: A Voyage to the Center of the Cosmos* from The Great Deceiver (rel. 1992, rec. 30 June 1974, Providence RI)
Issue: Discipline/Caroline CD

6. One More Red Nightmare from Red (1974)
Issue: DGM 40th Anniversary Remaster CD

7. Fracture from Live in Central Park, (rel. 2000, rec. 1 July 1974, Central Park, New York City)
Issue: DGM KC Collectors Club CD

8. Starless from Red (1974)
Source: DGM 40th Anniversary Remaster CD

Cap.Lorax if I get to a bonus round I promise to include a live Starless on there. Here I felt it was important to end with the final statement from the band.

dang, the epic 20+ minute jam on vol. 2 sounds almost exactly like Dark Magus-era Miles! Love it.

Listening today to an early version of The Sailor's Tale (Plymouth Guildhall '71)--it's within striking distance of the Arkestra.

I'd like to hear live versions of Sailor's Tale just to find out how RF approached the guitar solo -- the studio version was pulled out of someplace in his psyche that I don't think he ever approached again. (possible exception "Swastika Girls")

the studio version was pulled out of someplace in his psyche that I don't think he ever approached again.

Exactly so. I think it was that tune that really cemented my love for KC. From what I understand, he played the solo with a detuned banjo(?) I'd like to find some solid info about how that came about.

Also none of the live versions of the song get close to it, so far that I've yet heard.

He's written a little bit about he was stressed out enough by the sessions, but also was having to write the orchestrations in the free time that he didn't have, getting by on almost no sleep, and when the time came to record the solo, all his terrors + bad vibes + exhaustion just splorted out at once.

Cool, thanks for that. Islands is such a weird record. I hope in the 40th anniversary redo they'll make the bass actually audible.

this series just keeps getting better! vol. 3 is the best one yet ... some of it sounds way ahead of its time.

I'm pretty close to finishing up Vol. 4: Requiem (1981-on). It's been the hardest one to complete for reasons I can't quite articulate. Much like Vol. 1 (though to a greater degree) it goes into material I don't really like that much, but can't be dismissed either.

One thing I have done is listened to waaay more live material from the THRAK band as well as the later Bruford & Levinless quartet than I ever thought I needed to. As a result I've found myself enjoying some songs that I was long sick of just by way of being overwhelmed by the intensity of the performance. The LA Wiltern show, the final date of the '95 US tour, bears this out.

OK, here it is--VOLUME 4: REQUIEM (1981-on)

http://www.mediafire.com/?jyidnogvyd2

Great news for this Friday!

Track 9, "Dinosaur", is damaged in my download. Can anyone confirm this or is it just me?

I'll check it out.

Awwwwesome. I think I've been listening to King Crimson more than anyone else in the past month or so, thanks to this series. I also bought Red!

Here's Dinosaur again-
http://www.mediafire.com/?iq0rzmjdzjo

And the tracklist...

Volume 4: Requiem (1981-2008)

1. Frame by Frame from Discipline (1981)
Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster HDCD

2. Thela Hun Ginjeet from Absent Lovers (rel. 1997, rec. 1984)
Issue: DGM CD

3. Discipline from Discipline (1981)
Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster HDCD

4. Sartori in Tangier from Beat (1982)
Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster HDCD

5. Waiting Man from Live at Cap'd Agde (rel. 1999, rec. 26 August at Cap D'Agde, France)
Issue: DGM KC Collectors Club CD

6. Sleepless from Three of a Perfect Pair (1984)
Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster HDCD

7. Larks Tongues in Aspic, Part III from Three of a Perfect Pair (1984)
Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster HDCD

8. Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream from THRAK (1995)
Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster HDCD

9. Dinosaur from Live at the Wiltern (rel. 2005, rec. 1 July 1995 at the Wiltern Theater, Los Angeles CA)
Issue: DGM KC Collectors Club CD

10. THRAK from VROOOM VROOOM (rel. 2001, rec. between 2-4 August 1996 at the Metropolitan Theater, Mexico City)
Issue: DGM CD

11. Improv: München from Heavy ConstruKction (rel. 2000, rec. 4 June 2000 at Circus Krone, Munich)
Issue: DGM CD

12. Level Five from The Power to Believe (2003)
Issue: Sanctuary CD

13. Indiscipline from Live at Park West (rel. 2009, rec. 7 August 2008 at the Park West, Chicago IL)
Issue: DGM Digital Album

I went back and checked, I didn't find anything wrong with Dinosaur, but I did re-up it as a separate file. Any other problems, webmail me or whatever.

Oh yeah, I see I have some track info missing as well. Thela Hun Ginjeet was recorded 11 July 1984, and released in 1998. The concert on Absent Lovers is the final performance of the 80s band, and more-or-less essential, perhaps moreso than the albums proper in my view.

thanks so much for these. great stuff!

I note there's nothing from construkction of light on here -not a fan of that one?

Well, that was a tough one. I debated trying to add something from it to touch all their studio albums, but I have some strong reservations about that record--I think it's easily their worst, with Beat running up behind. TCOL has something to dislike about every single track I think: the plodding, waaay over-processed drum sound (which is probably its consistently worst element), overstuffed production and suffocating digital effects, generally weak songwriting and some of Belew's most head-shakingly bad lyrics of his entire career.

They sound like a band at cross-purposes on that record: they're trying to keep it interesting for themselves by writing more complex songs to play, while at the same time just rewriting old material--FraKctured is the key example of this--the tune goes on and on without building to anything interesting, it just repeats and ends. The magical thing with the original Fracture is the way it just breaks into a boogie after endless fingerpicking...all these years later it's just all tension and no release.
So I ultimately just left it off in favor of the same band performing music that I find alot more intriguing--in fact I like most all of the improvs I've yet heard from that phase of KC...Heavy ConstruKction is a more satisfying listen all around there are alot of interesting moments, and you get all the songs from TCOL, though why they thought anyone would want to listen to ProzaKc Blues (absolutely their worst song ever) a second time is beyond me.

In any event I've had a hell of a lot of fun making these. I can't seem to let go, though and have already assembled an all-live megamix cutting across time and space, with at least a second volume ready after that.

3. Discipline from Discipline (1981)
Issue: DGM 30th Anniversary Remaster HDC

- would have put on 'Neal Jack and Me' or 'Three of a Perfect Pair' instead. 'The Sheltering Sky' is another good 80's song but it is long and would be hard to fit on. You put on 'Sartori in Tangier' which is great. There's just so many good 80's tracks... 'the howler', 'lark's tongue part III',

For albums THRAK onward, I doesn't really matter so much what you pick. I enjoy hearing songs like 'Into The Frying Pan', 'Coda: Marine 475', and 'The ConstruKction of Light'. I don't think 'Level Five' (aka Lark's Five) has as good of a solo as the end of 'Larks Tongues In Aspic Part IV' (one of Fripp's best solos) which leads into 'Coda: I Have a Dream' (sweet short bit) but as a whole song 'Larks IV' is meh.

man i kinda wish i woulda voted for wake of poseidon just so that would have a vote

glad you're doing the live comp as well -- I think my fave things from these sets have been the stretched out improv jam things.

re: 90's onward

'Frakctured', 'Elektrik', 'Level 5', 'Dangerous Curves'... might sound fine but they only remind me that King Crimson sort of got into a funk where their original stuff is variations of older songs like 'The Talking Drum', 'Discipline' and 'Lark's'.

And the singing gets worse the farther you get

the funny thing about how all the music starting to sound the same is that I think Fripp has over disciplined himself

xp I've said it before, but CoL is my favourite crimson album, even with belew's awful lyrics (not that I really pay attention to lyrics anyway) and the drum sound. in fact, it's the ONLY crimson album that I can listen to from start to finish without skipping anything. it's so relentlessly heavy and uber-technical that I can't help but give in and drool. that ping-pong guitar thing that threads throughout the album, i.e. belew and fripp playing alternate notes in complex riffs, is really distinctive and disorienting, for one thing.

I know what you mean about the rewrites... larks tongues part IV, anyone? but for me that's not a problem, it's more about the refinement of those old ideas into more pure forms.

I did note that the climactic riff from the title track appears in the improv you'd included here. interesting. and very cool.

thanks again for your efforts...

slightly ot but this clip of pete sinfiled backed by john wetton & mel collins is kinda lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WerDAfRbINM

i have been lurking and just wanted to thank u sparkle motion for the comp -- it's awesome. gonna take me a while to digest it all, but i am excited about it.

At the time, 80s King Crimson got lots of airplay on my college radio station along with other post-punk stalwarts of the day. Certainly in my circle of friends, they were included in the pantheon of music we were listening to. It felt like they were one of the few late 60s/early 70s bands that had reinvented themselves and were just as relevantl and inspired as the rest of the underground. Was that the common perception at the time?

I think a lot of that respect was down to Fripp's New York period in the late 70s when he worked with Talking Heads, Blondie etc. Also of course the collaborations with Byrne, Eno and Bowie.

whoops, strike that second Byrne from the list

C. Lorax: I couldn't eliminate Discipline from the tracklist! That track means so much to me, even after all this time. I remember hearing it and being captivated by how it sounded so alien to my know-nothing ears, and how not-rock-n-roll it was. I loved both of those notions, and probably was ultimately responsible for letting me get into repetitive Terry Riley-esque stuff and more experimental music in general as the years have gone on...

I did have Three of a Perfect Pair on there, but I didn't want too many album tracks from that record, and live versions of same have never really held up to it. Anyway I did want to be fair to later work.

As far as the 90s and onward bands, it's a bit of a mixed bag, and most of the opinions about them expressed previously comport with mine. I still think THRAK is a pretty good album, and the notion of them rewriting old material hadn't become such a drag at that time. I really got into KC right about the time that THRAK was coming out, so it was kind of exciting to hear this mysterious band that was beginning to come back to life, and at least in my nerdy circle of Guitar Player-reading friends, there was a real sense of engagement with the history of KC merging with what sounded like renewed vitality at that time. I was boggled by the double trio notion (whereas now I just think they had at least one too many members--if anyone can distinguish for me the difference between Gunn & Levin at any point in those tunes, I'd appreciate it)... and I was blown away by seeing them live on that tour. So to that extent I wanted to capture some of that on the THRAK-era tracks.

There's more to say but I'm out of time atm....

(x-post) Velko, THANKS for that Sinfield link!! I listened to that solo album when it was new as much, or more, than contemporaneous Crimson, so it's completely bizarre (and lol) to me to SEE him singing it.

this one is even funnier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzoxJT74W0w

CoL and Believe are both albums that I never, ever bother with; I've tried and tried over the years, believe me; and I'm a huge Crimson fan, but most of those records just don't hold a candle to anything that came before.

I really like Beat, it was the first of the 80's albums I purchased myself (although I actually had the other two taped from someone). I'm a big 80's Crimson proponent and think they need to sound more like that if they continue (which seems doubtful right now).

if they continue (which seems doubtful right now).

carrying on with any more Crim activity seems like the worst idea in the world, really.

Apparently Fripp is doing some work with Jakko something or other, the guy behind the KC tribute group 21st Century Schizoid Band and Mel Collins.
As to whether or not they continue with Crim proper, it's a good bet they'll do one more record with the lineup from that last set of shows in '08 (2nd drummer, Gunn out, Levin back on bass/stick). Fripp has more or less said as much just as soon as he gets done suing everyone in the entire world that's done him wrong.
As dubious as I find their present state, a Crimso-less world is a sadder one to me, so I say continue, what the hell.

it's a good bet they'll do one more record with the lineup from that last set of shows in '08

I don't get that impression from his recent diary entries. Guitar Craft is wrapping up and it sounds like he's going to hunker down and write -- his memoirs, I hope.

carrying on with any more Crim activity seems like the worst idea in the world, really.

given that their last two albums proper were easily their strongest since red, I can't support this! not really a fan of 80s crimson, tbh. discipline certainly has its moments, but the rest is just too sleek and shiny for my liking.

I think you're way in the minority with that opinion though.

must admit, I'm kind of amazed the 80s period is so well regarded...

Loudly enjoying Disc 2 right now, thanks again for this compilation!

friend of mine was getting rid of a few Adrian Belew solo albums from the 80s/90s ... SHOULD I GRAB THEM. He said they sucked.

i've been listening to vol 1 and 2 all day long -- LOVE LOVE LOVE. i remember adrian belew as a weirdo with an overbite who wrote songs i didn't like (90s, mostly) and now i get it.

i get it! i love it.

also had no idea they were so deeply jazzy

yeah, that was surprising to me, too!

i'm really familiar with stuff like V5, The Thing, etc. and it totally reminds me of that, only heavier. LOVE!

I think the jazz came from McDonald & Giles in the first part, then Collins & especially Ian Wallace later--Wallace even did the whole Crimson Jazz Trio in his last years--I'm still out on that one.
On my forthcoming live megamix there's quite a bit of the jazzy stuff--Drop In sounds like a more skronky Astral Weeks track, and in The Sailor's Tale Mel Collins actually quotes a bit of Sonny Rollins' St. Thomas...
As I understand it, Fripp ultimately wanted to be able to break away from the jazz-based improvisational structure and try to improv in a strictly rock context, the result being the Larks band.

La Lechera: This "The Thing"?

http://www.rerelease.net/catalog.php?RID=4

Yeah the jazz thing is hitting me too, ties in kinda well with the Return to Forever anthology I've been listening to lately.

i'm talking about the smalltown superjazz the thing
http://www.smalltownsupersound.com/v1/superjazzz/news.php

related tangentially to brotzmann, mats gustafsson, paal nilssen-love (just saw atomic this weekend, it was awesome)

Oh yeah, ok...cool... You should check out that Arni Cheatham record though. If you like this kind of stuff, you'll dig it.

Will do!

COMING INCREDIBLY SOON

MEGAPHONIUM FANFARE: VOLUME ONE

a live extravaganza featuring

VROOOM VROOOM/Coda: Marine 475
Red
Drop In
Improv: Wilton Carpet
The Sheltering Sky
The Sailor's Tale
Improv: Kassel II/Exiles
Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part II
and by request
Starless

....and here's the link

thanks!

ooh, thanks! i've been listening to vol 1-4 pretty much nonstop all week.

brillllllliant. Haven't made it to vol. 4 yet, but 2010 is already the year of Crimson for me ...

likewise
where does high tide fit into this? i realized that the earlier stuff reminds me of them too.

yessss. thanks again!!

It is my distinct pleasure to compile these things. I've had so much fun I could keep going and going as long as the interest is there. For those that have gotten to the live comp, I'm curious to know how it sounds-- I edited the thing together with Garageband to make the transitions between songs seamless and enhance the conceit of a continuous live performance across time/personnel. As with all of them, they play best when itunes is set to gapless playback....

I just listened to "starless" on crummy laptop speakers but it sounds great! I've just had a blast with these comps in general. love em.

but... I got some kind of audio error unpacking the file and the mp3 cuts off 7mins in or so. any chance you could re-up "starless" again?

That's the live starless? I'll reup it (or anything else) when I get home...

yeah, that's the one. (from your last "megaphonium" upload.) thanks!!

btw, as much as I love these comps, they're having the strange side effect of making me go and listen to red over and over again for the umptenth time in lieu of other crimson stuff I haven't explored. which isn't really so strange because it's totally great... but fer instance, I have to give larks' tongues the time it really deserves already.

We were rocking 'Red' at the weekend in the shop and it was finally dawning on me what an absolute stunner of an album it is, gloriously heavy and I was going to pick out the drums to mention but, actually, all the playing is sublime.

I love the bass sound on it. and "gloriously heavy" is otm.

but it's true, everyone is in top form.

Red is tops, no doubt. One thing I think that contributed to the overall sound is that Fripp stepped out of the recording/production process, and since Cross was gone at that point, Bruford & Wetton made most of the decisions re: the overall sound...so what did the rhythm section do? Turn themselves up!

To quote from KC's site:

Bill Bruford recently described the album in just five words: Prescient, short and bass heavy.”

Ok, here's the reupped Starless from Megaphonium Fanfare v.1

http://www.mediafire.com/?mn1tg2r2oxf

Let me know if there are any other probs.

awesome. no probs with that one and thanks.

and I actually never knew that bruford/wetton produced red - hah! makes sense.

also makes me wonder what some of the other albums would have sounded like produced red-style.

Re: High Tide, (xxposts) I haven't heard them (or even heard of them), so I'll give it a try... I did listen to the McDonald/Giles album, cut & released shortly after In the Wake of Poseidon. Apparently the final track, "Birdman" was originally going to be the second side of ITWOP. However it's hard to guess what KC might have done with the material. It's much lighter & poppier than anything KC was up to. The piece would have benefitted from Fripp's hand though, as it's fairly long and musically pretty dull. The rest of the record is at least worth a listen--there's a decent rewrite of Cadence & Cascade, and Tommorow's People is fairly funky- the drum sound is killer.

Listen to Sea Shanties -- to me, at least, some of it sounds a lot like In the Court of the Crimson King (which I bought, btw). The electric fiddling is obvs less jazzy than the skronky horns of KC, but the records came out around the same time iirc. I dunno, they seemed kind of similar in the "inventive/unusual/progressive/heavy rock music of the late 60s" kind of way

http://www.progweed.net/reviews/h/seashanties.jpg
this one!!

cool, I'll check it out.

the sea shanties cover is awesome

Oh my.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/;kw=[36885,160416]

Sounds like this
http://themusicninja.net/newsongs/datd5fuq9v.mp3

nothing he's got he really needs

Can't believe control freak Fripp signed off on this, but good for the dude if it underwrites another decade of his music.

I have just seen this thread and downloaded Sparkle Motion's sets. I demand we revive it!

A few somewhat random thoughts, as I'm jumping around the sets:

Listening to the remixed "Cirkus" now. I've always found Lizard to be a very bizarre, but very good little record (and never really had a problem with Haskell's vocals). But I'm almost stunned at how much better these recordings sound than my "Definitive Edition" versions. A song like "Happy Family," which was kind of (if endearingly) ugly before feel like they make a lot more sense with a crisper mix.

"Fallen Angel" in the first show by the Muir group -- whoah!

"Daniel Dust" is pretty awesome -- feels like a fusion of "Trio" (Cross's rhapsodizing) and "Book of Saturday" in places. I've always wanted to buy that Great Deceiver box (the original issue with the full liners) but have never gotten around to it. I might just have to now. Also, by fusing it to "The Night Watch," you now have three different recordings linked together (as TNW included a live intro and studio recording for the rest of the track).

Glad you like the comps, they were really fun to make. I've got about half of a 2nd live comp sitting around, I should finish it sometime.

I still listen to them all the time too!

today, even

damn dude, i'll have to grab those
70's Crimson had so much talent but I always felt many of their albums could have been better

yeah those KC comps showed me the glory of KC. live stuff is probably my favorite, so a sequel would be raddddd.

I will add it to this weekend's activities then!

This is reminding me I had a dream about them last night, where in the back of a crowded auditorium some fellow had a turntable set up with some gatefold KC lp I'd never seen called "Sailor", from 1985, but looking to be from 74, with three long tracks on each side. The songs were so long, in fact, that the track timings listed all of side two with a total duration of about 58 minutes. The groove cramming caused the tone arm to skate sort of randomly over the side as it played, and in dream logic I realized I was looking at a cat swishing its tail over the record, who then leapt into my arms and purred the rhythm of the Frippertronic heavy track that was playing. Of course I was shocked and asked the man if he saw that, to which he seemed merely uninterested, like it happened all the time. I swore it wasn't a hallucination, although in truth I hadn't been getting enough sleep. Then I awoke sharply with Jane Wiedlin's "Rush Hour" in my head for the next thirty minutes.

Thanks a bunch for those comps, Sparkle! I forgot how bizarre "Happy Family" was. Those vocals are completely mutilated - it doesn't sound like the CD I have. Which version of Lizard did you pull that from?

i think in the wake of poseiden is underrated

Hey glad you're enjoying them. I've begun to relisten to them again myself...that 'Happy Family' is from the 40th anniversary stereo remaster (remember there's also a 5.1) of Lizard, on DGM. The distorted vocals (run through a VCS3 if I'm not mistaken) are original, they just sound 10x cooler than previous editions.

Of course, picking up the pieces of the live comps has proved to be an ever-expanding enterprise. Pretty sure I could put out 3 more without scrambling for material.

One thing this has proved to me is that listening to KC always makes me feel better.

listened to disc 3 of those sparkle motion comps yesterday. some monstrous jamz.

That is my absolute favorite desert island KC on that one, Asbury Park being an especially badass jam.

yeah, it's ridiculous. only other bands that sounded remotely like that were maybe Can and Miles Davis' agharta group.

Aw hell I'm just gonna say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMYCQa5keaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9pawHmGcy8&feature=related

Whoa, I did not know that Ian Wallace played on Street Legal.

yeah i remember dylan's bass player said he had "a beat like a cop." i think it was derogatory, but i'm not sure exactly what he meant.

No shit dude, you hire a drummer from Crimso, they're gonna be fucking heavy.

i think wallace played with dylan a bit in the 90s too?

The distorted vocals (run through a VCS3 if I'm not mistaken) are original, they just sound 10x cooler than previous editions.

I remember them sounding very ugly on the CD I had (which was one of the earlier ones). They're still ugly but now they sound kind of scary too. I don't know, I've listened to Lizard a lot and both this and "Cirkus" sound different from what I remember, I may just need to pick up the new remaster.
I'm glad someone dug out the great jams '73 and '74 Crimson did, because personally I feel like Starless & Bible Black is kind of a dud. I'll never understand why they were happy releasing it like that when it was clear they could do so much better. I'm not a fan of the ConstruKction of Light but the 3-disc live album released at that time has a bunch of awesome improv stuff on it, their best in such a long time.

Loved your writeup on the records, frogbs, but I just totally disagree on S&BB -- it's one of the few records where the breakdown between songs/instrumentals works. Plus, the "record it live and then edit the shit out of it in the studio" approach is awesome and ballsy. Toward that end, "Fracture" is probably my favorite/most thrilling thing ever by the group, period.

As for Lizard, the reason you're hearing something different is bc it wasn't only remastered -- but also remixed by Steve Wilson from Porcupine Tree. I think there's a link to an interview with him somewhere upthread where he discusses how much he loved Lizard as a kid and for this project painstakingly synced up the original multitracks (which had been bounced to stereo multiple times before they were originally mixed) to bring out the dynamic range and details in the mix. I've only heard "Cirkus" and "Happy Family" from these mixes, but they do sound awesome.

Are you talking about the Listology article? I dunno, I always meant to go back and give S&BB a good re-listen. I had most of those ratings figured out about 6 years ago, when KC was the only prog group I knew. I just remember a lot of the improv bits pissing me off because I knew the group could do so much better. I mean just listen to "Larks Tongues in Aspic Part One" - I know it's not really improvised, but I felt like they could kick out so many more pieces like that. "Fracture" is indeed a ride but I always felt it was just really, really long.

May have to go relisten to Lizard now though. I've always been very torn on that record since it took me such a long time to get into it on any level, but this new mix sounds like it emphasizes the bizarre atmosphere of the record which IMO is really the big "selling" point as the album is so ugly otherwise.

And I hate how "The Mincer" just cuts off like that!! Yeah it's avant-garde as fuck but it's still obnoxious!

Pretty sure the Mincer is as such due to a failure in the recording process--the Law of Maximum Distress Pt 1 & 2 surround it, imperfectly. I'm working on Frankensteining them back together.

really think Lizard is unfairly hated on. "Cirkus" is one of my favorite KC tracks. and of course the Jon Anderson sung finale...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjkSmV_Gtw0

They really should have indexed the Jon Anderson part of "Lizard" serperately. It would make such an awesome single by itself!

frogbs, naive teen idol, check yr webmail

Thanks a bunch man. I'd really love to get into that album again. All my real memories of it were when I bought the actual LP which was slightly warped and blasted it out of this massive wooden radio deck that I got for free. Somehow the CD never did it for me.

Listening to Volume 4 of those sets - first song is "Sleepless" and I could just think "oh yeah, that happened", then remembered how incredible the Absent Lovers live album was. This band was good but it never should have been called "King Crimson"

As I'm sure you know, Fripp intended to call the band Discipline, but was talked out of it by Belew. Regardless I suspect it had more to do ultimately with Brand Recognition, same as calling that Jakzyk/Collins/Fripp mess "a King Crimson Projekct"--no one would buy it otherwise. With that newest thing, I hope no one would buy it in either case.

You know though I've been listening alot to the 2000 band, and though I've repeated ad nauseum my misgivings about that group, they make the most legitimate claim to being the true successor to the 73-74 group. Their improvs are, at their best, thrilling and scary, and present a Crim venturing into strange territory.

thrilling, scary, and strange -- tell me more!

same as calling that Jakzyk/Collins/Fripp mess "a King Crimson Projekct"--no one would buy it otherwise

Totally agreed on the 2000 Crim, as I said before that Heavy ConstruKction live set is such a beast, definitely their best improv since the early days. For whatever reason the double trio improv always struck me as very aimless, with everyone afraid to step on anyone elses toes, but the 4-piece sans Levin and Beuford was great. Sadly they just could not write songs at all and that's why they get a bad rap. I mean look at the album - take out the joke tunes and the retreads of old material and you're left with "Into the Frying Pan" (which is great though)

I mentioned it on a different Crimson thread, but while I totally agree the double trio was aimless, the version I saw most recently with two drums, two guitars but just one bass - Pat, drummer dude from Porcupine Tree, Levin, Fripp, Belew - was totally on fire.

hxxp://avaxhome.ws/music/rock/progressive_rock/1820588.html (incl. a not exactly egal-lay download)

I don't think anyone bought it anyway. I mean compare this with the hype for the new Yes album, or even the lastest by Van der Graaf Generator. I would imagine if the album was any good that people would be interested.

Well, okay, let me clarify by saying I feel that way about the double trio in 1994 and 1995. The first disc of the VROOOM VROOOM live set is from 1996 and it rules, like they found out how to stop getting in each others way and just bash out all the tunes. And then they split. Oh well

Did anyone ever read Bruford's autobiography? I always got the impression that he just got tired of working with RF and took off.
Agreed that VROOOM DEUCE is great--compare the ferocity of the performances to the B'BOOOM set at the start of the tour. It's really a shame they didn't make anything worthwhile in the studio out of it.

I'm sure that Fripp is a big jerk. But for some reason I was under the impression that Buford was a jerk, too. Maybe incompatible jerks?

I don't know if Fripp is a jerk so much as he is anal-retentive.
I just pictured Captain Beefheart being strict with the people he worked with. Could it be that Fripp is no different than Beefheart?

That's probably more accurate.

I always got the impression that he just got tired of working with RF and took off.

I think it wasn't so much Fripp but rock music in general he got tired of. He just wanted to play jazz.

bruford's comments on the ABWH and Union tour that are on wiki (which are from his autobiography I think) are kind of amusing.

From Bruford's FAQ:

Why are you no longer playing with King Crimson?
First, because I can think of nothing to add, and second, because I have other things to do. Pat Mastelotto has the gig well covered. As a member of the band for some 25 years off and on, I found the experience challenging, innovative, and exasperating in equal measure, and I wouldn't have changed a moment of it. I learned lots about music, and my place in it, over the years, and was lucky enough to participate in some concerts that neither audience nor musicians will be likely to forget in a hurry. Somewhere around the turn of the millennium it became obvious to me that I had achieved all I was likely to achieve in the mighty Crim.

I have also been keen to get back to the vernacular of jazz, not as a tourist, but as a full time committed member, and the second edition of Earthworks opened up full throttle in 1998. To make progress in the one demanded renouncing the other.

I can respect that.

Always love Bruford's comment about when he first joined KC, that it was the only band that when he joined he was given a reading list.

whoah I missed this revive

please email me, Sparkle Motion!

((me too))

No probs dudes, anyone else who wants a further education in advanced lizard studies let me know

Did any of these anniversary reissues include liner notes? My feeling is that Fripp's own stories about the making of these records (based on Steve Wilson's experience w Fripp in the studio remixing them) would be gold.

I just pulled out my copy of the Young Person's Guide booklet--which is a compendium of reviews, articles and Fripp diary entries from 69-76 (the only item I've ever stolen -- I stuck the booklet in a copy of Red I was going to buy)--and was just stunned at what an exciting and hilarious read it is.

I've only read the liner notes to Red. It was informative, but didn't contain any personal reminiscences that I can remember.

I just pulled out my copy of the Young Person's Guide booklet--which is a compendium of reviews, articles and Fripp diary entries from 69-76 (the only item I've ever stolen -- I stuck the booklet in a copy of Red I was going to buy)--and was just stunned at what an exciting and hilarious read it is

Yes, that was the first KC album I ever bought and I love that booklet as well. I like the way he answers back to negative reviews. IIRC the same text (but not the photos) was used for the booklet in the Great Deceiver box set.

a lot of the 30th anniversary discs contained that stuff, a lot of the newspaper articles were pretty entertaining.

I remember one that claimed that Earthbound was their best work, wtf

They had the clippings of the reviews and stuff but I don't think they had Fripp's diary or his acerbic comments. I do remember one 1974 review in particular saying that the then just released Red was the best KC album. In retrospect he was OTM, as confirmed by this poll!

Maybe I'm thinking of the live albums that had some commentary on it? I remember getting The Night Watch which had a few quotes from the band members saying that they didn't feel they were "on" that night, and yet they used the performance for S&BB (plus that live album) anyway. What kind of stuff does Fripp end up saying?

One example that sticks in my mind is some lengthy rant of a negative review (most of the 69-74 reviews were actually very positive) that included a line about "the well known break in 'Schizoid Man' relied heavily on studio gimcrackery." There were so many things Fripp could have picked up on in that review but he just drily notes underneath the review: "The 'well-known break in 'Schizoid Man' did not rely heavily on 'studio gimcrackery'" and leaves it at that. There's tons of stuff like that.

Now I'm starting to get interested in King Crimson trivia - I used to really love this website FAQ:
http://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

One thing that I always thought was interesting is that Giles, Giles & Fripp were TRYING to write a hit single, and actually gave it several good attempts - if any one of them had caught on, that would have essentially killed Crimson.

"The 'well-known break in 'Schizoid Man' did not rely heavily on 'studio gimcrackery'"

Yeah, the whole thing was done in one take, which is pretty amazing

Reading through this FAQ again is pretty entertaining. Apparently Elton John was booked to sing on Poseidon, and Fripp was originally offered the lead guitar role in Yes over Steve Howe.

Actually now I come to think of it, it was probably the Frame by Frame box set that reproduced the Young Persons booklet. The Great Deceiver box had a different booklet, probably with another load of archival material.

Yeah that ET stuff is good. There used to be an email list in the 90s which I subscribed to. Fripp made the odd intervention there. The DGM forum is OK but not the same.

I read a ton of ET in the mid 90s, I think the fervent devotion of the fans was good (it led to the Collectors Club) and bad (pandering from the band, resulting in songs like Prozakc blues).

I would love to see some PDFs of the box set booklets... I remember my local library had the Frame by Frame box (and the Great Deceiver now that I think about it) and that booklet was amazing, just jam packed full of press clippings, photos, and a massive fold out band family tree.

I think about stuff like that occasionally. It would take either the prepress files from whoever designed the booklets, or somebody cutting/breaking the binding on a copy so they could scan it. Back when I was selling my CDs, sometimes when a disc sold that had a really interesting booklet, I'd scan it quickly before shipping. Got a lot of scans from various late-90s Chess reissues, some Woody Guthrie Asch Recordings...keep meaning to OCR them but haven't bothered yet. I've kept the book in the Great Deceiver box in nice shape, don't want to break it down in case I ever get a decent offer for the set.

I kind of get the impression that Fripp's a guy who compulsively saves everything ever written about him for "posterity". I guess for better or worse at least his OCD allows us to have like 150 CDs of live material should we ever want it.

Yeah I just dug out my Frame by Frame box, the booklet is indeed the Young Persons booklet updated to 1991. And very nice it is too.

I bet that's a great read. What is in the Great Deceiver notes? I'm contemplating forking over some money for it.

Looking back over that YPG booklet really took me back -- and made me think about that ageless tension in King Crimson between the music and the words. I find myself periodically getting absorbed in the first four records -- and oddly enough, the Sinfield lyrics are usually a big reason why. I saw some website years ago that "interpreted" them—explaining all the literary references and so forth—and while they're florid to a ludicrous degree, their sense of unbridled ambition is kind of refreshing in today's day and age -- kind of charmingly quaint. Don't get me wrong -- there are definitely some clunkers ("The Letter" is a big one) -- and several go well beyond outlandish to the point of confused ("Lizard"). Still, I'm usually surprised at how well the lyrics fit with the music and how evocative their imagery is. Quite frankly, they make me think far more than the author of ELP's "Taste of My Love" has any real right to.

And while I'm no vinyl purist by any means, I would add that the gatefolds are critical to the overall listening experience -- for the first three records anyway. While mine got waterdamaged years ago, I particularly loved listening along to my big glossy copy of Poseidon.

I know this is unrelated, but I asked this in a thread already, did you ever wind up listening to Love Beach??

Didn't somebody do a "Taste of My Love" poll? That's the only track I've heard, and it is truly hilarious.

(xpost) Were the British LP jackets glossy? Poseidon in the US was soft and fuzzy-ish.

Aw man, I love "The Letters", but yeah, totally florid.

I'm flicking through the Great Deceiver one now. It's not quite as nice as the FbF one because it's longbox shaped.

Let's see now. There's an essay by Fripp about playing live. Extracts from his diary in 1974. A bunch of liner notes by various critics. Lots of published reviews of FbF. And a sprinkling of live photos, which are mostly a bit underwhelming.

On the lyrics, I've always found Richard Palmer-James's to be more interesting than Sinfield's. That yearning, lyrical quality suits Wetton's voice well.

I know this is unrelated, but I asked this in a thread already, did you ever wind up listening to Love Beach??

Of course not.

So...that decscription (very appreciated, btw) doesn't make it sound like The Great Deceiver is necessarily worth buying for the book alone -- right, anagram?

I think all his liner notes have been a great teaser for the book he's finishing up now. I wonder what the ratio of bile to joy is going to be.

I shouldn't say "finishing up" -- "still in progress," rather.

So...that decscription (very appreciated, btw) doesn't make it sound like The Great Deceiver is necessarily worth buying for the book alone

I would say yes, don't buy it for the book alone. The music's great too though, of course!

I would say that TGD is an essential KC release.

And while I'm no vinyl purist by any means, I would add that the gatefolds are critical to the overall listening experience -- for the first three records anyway. While mine got waterdamaged years ago, I particularly loved listening along to my big glossy copy of Poseidon.

Yep, absolutely, those albums are completely diminished without the vinyl gatefolds. My copy of Lizard has the gilded lettering and everything. So disappointing to pull out the CD with the plain printed cover or, worse, play it on the ipod.

Listening to one of the Denver Collector's Club releases right now from '72 w Boz, Mel Collins, etc. And I gotta say, while it's a million miles from the Lark's lineup, this was a great band. The version of "Cirkus" on this with the dueling Mellotrons on the break with Wallace playing this spartan death march to Hell is a complete mindfuck.

Listening now to the unexpurgated Asbury Park for the first time, it's disorienting--Cross' Mellotron is waaaay louder in the mix. Weird like listening to the unedited In A Silent Way sessions, hearing something I love inside of something that didn't previously exist. I'm honestly not sure if I like it, fascinating though it is.

I've always wondered how Eddie Jobson overdubbed his parts on USA. I mean, it's a live album. Also, why? Was David Cross' performance subpar? And if so, why release that of all shows? Same goes for Earthbound. Makes me wonder if both releases were some kind of grand joke on the bands and/or label. Has Fripp ever said anything?

I think Cross & Fripp had had it out by that point. I don't know about the overdubbing on Earthbound--actually I wasn't aware of any. I can tell you after having listened to the entirety of the Asbury Park show that it's one of their best, with ace sound quality to boot.

Sorry, I didn't mean overdubbing on Earthbound -- just releasing a live album of a band that wasn't really representative of said band.

I'd really love to hear the whole show. Seems like a bunch of the ones right near the end--Providence, Asbury Park, Central Park--are among the best.

Btw, the remixed Lizard is pretty great -- thx for sharing. The run-through of "Lady of the Dancing Water" with the different chords is particularly interesting.

Now I'm confused. I just read that when Fripp re-released USA as part of the 30th/40th Anniversary editions, since all the performances bar one had been from Asbury Park, he just decided to add "Fracture" and "Starless" from that show to the reissue and replace said performance ("Schizoid Man") to make it a complete Asbury Park show. So what's different about it from the Collectors Club edition you heard, Sparkle Motion? The mixes? The Presence of Eddie Jobson?

I've always wondered how Eddie Jobson overdubbed his parts on USA. I mean, it's a live album.

IIRC David Cross originally played on the USA album, but was overdubbed by Jobson due to a record company issue. You see this on a few 70's and 80's-era live albums where one performer is under a different contract and has to be overdubbed.

My instinct tells me that can't be true, as Cross is all over the record. But then, w/o looking at my vinyl, I can't remember whether he's credited as a full member or as an additional performer.

To add to the confusion, I just dl'd the USA 30th Anniversary edition to hear the complete Asbury Park concert and..."Easy Money" still fades out.

Yeah, I've been doing some research and it looks like Cross does appear on a few of the tracks. Now I'm not really sure what happened - maybe Fripp felt like his playing was substandard on the others? Perhaps it wasn't recorded well? Not sure where I heard the record company thing but it seemed plausible as I have a few other live albums on which this happens.

I haven't done a proper A/B comparison between USA and the Asbury Park KCCC release...but the track "Asbury Park" sounds substantially different. For years my copy of USA was a vinyl rip bootleg, well before the 30th Anniversary releases (which RF relented to just putting USA & Earthbound out as they had been originally released, Easy Money fadeout and all). The sound on that boot was decent, but the 30th Anniversary edition was cleaned up to the point where Cross' playing was more pronounced--this is the version I included on V.3 of the comp set.
The newer one is all the more exposed, I don't know if it's a matter of mixing, or editing, or both. Jobson only appears on USA on 3 tracks: LTIA II, Schizoid Man, and Lament. In any event I can say that the sound is killer on the Asbury Park complete show, and the band is incredibly tight. It's really a shame they didn't make more music after Red.

Wow, this new Lizard is actually pretty good

I had not previously heard ANY of that guitar in "Indoor Games" and I've heard the album like 20 times

They really did an awesome job with this

Just picked up the David Cross solo album "Exiles" (1997 I think...?) - it's actually kind of good. Not really what you'd expect from a violinist's solo album - it's actually quite heavy, with a good dose of Fripp and some other guitarists. It does have a remake of "Exiles" with Wetton, which is decent (but has some weird techno shit in it that doesn't really take), and has Pete Hammill on a couple of tracks. My first impression is that it's at least as good as anything Crimson released from the 90's on. Though there really isn't much of an "identity" here. Anyway just thought I'd let you guys know.

I don't remember much from it. I did listen to an earlier one from the 80s called Memos From Purgatory--it had some typical era-specific production touches, but wasn't bad overall.
You know, the Larks Tongues group are all still around--maybe they should give it another go...

Wetton has openly questioned whether he has the energy at 60 or whatever to play like that anymore. And Bruford sounds Fripp'd out.

Btw, was just reading these old pieces from the NME by Ian MacDonald in 1973 on Fripp's incorrigible sexual appetites (and apparently, prowess!). They have to be read to be believed -- and are kind of mind-blowing for anyone who's followed Fripp over the years and feels like they've pinned him down.

Fripp's incorrigible sexual appetites (and apparently, prowess!).

whaaaaaaa?!

doesn't he make a comment during one of the live albums like "a lot of lovely breasts in the club tonight" ?

"Ladies of the Road" was kind of about this

On the Denver live record mentioned upthread, Fripp introduces "Ladies of the Road" and wryly alludes to its subject matter -- when one of the band members hints at Fripp's contemporaneous exploits, Fripp's says simply: "This is a song of reminiscence."

He's always seemed so disinterested in lyrics that I figured he just put music to whatever words Sinfield, Palmer-James and Belew threw out there, regardless of subject matter. I knew he wasn't chaste in the early days of KC -- I read that he got treated for groupie-clap sometime in, uh, 1969? -- but "incorrigible sexual appetites" is a bit of a surprise.

xp -- well I'll be.

Well, you have to remember that 1969-1974 was THE time to form a progressive rock band if you were searching for groupies. I can only imagine how many of them followed ELP around in their prime!!

Like - even Steve Howe probably got some attention

this is cracking me up

This thread is about take a turn into pictures of Prog Beefcake, I can feel it

He's just always seemed like the kind of guy who managed to get out of his clothes once a year or less, and there were always tears afterward. Now I'm imagining the cops in Bredonborough getting nightly calls about the screams coming from Bobby 'n' Toyah's place.

Keep in mind he did hang around with Eno a lot, that might explain it

sexy helmet
http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/189c806224f8fbf1670775d07b45876e/1667766.jpg

There are some real "out of character" moments on the GG&F album too. I have no idea what the guy is really like. Even the people who write about meeting him all share wildly different stories about what he's like in person.

xpost Why do you think he hung around Eno? Surprised they didn't put out an album called "Sloppy Seconds."

cool sweatshirt
http://progressiverock.com/sites/default/files/images/fripp_and_eno1975.jpg?1305249257

"No Pussyfooting" was meant to be taken quiet literally

From Robert Fripp: The Sexual Athlete, by Ian MacDonald:

"What," I enquired, fully expecting a swift back-down, "was the best lay you ever had?"

Fripp stroked his chin, reflectively. "There are about four chicks involved in that – not, in this case, simultaneously. I have to admit. However, return with me if you will to my earliest days as a rock musician. I used to get complaints from Greg (Lake). Not directly, but I used to hear about them.

"You see, we shared this flat which was basically one room divided into two by a thin cardboard screen. It was, as you can imagine, not fit to live in. Anyway, Greg used to complain about the gasps and screams coming from my side of the partition and, I must admit, his women used to get on my nerves too. No comment on Gregory, just his women – but I decided to move out.

"The ensuing period of my homelessness in 1969 was one of the most rewarding of my life. I was continually thrown on the mercies and generosities of tender maidens. Oh those lovely situations. It was quite awful in one way – but quite beautiful in another."

...

"Of course, when one is young one has all these delusions of being the great stud and one is not interested in a harmonious relationship of giving and taking. But, I'm happy to say, those days for me are now long past and I have spent many fulfiling hours, even on this very lawn upon which I now recline, not only copulating but involved in various other activities.

"In fact I was lying here naked one day, a young lady in attendance, when my next-door neighbour, the chairman of the Rural District Council, popped his head over yonder hedge to inform me that I had Dutch Elm Disease."

"Of course, when one is young one has all these delusions of being the great stud and one is not interested in a harmonious relationship of giving and taking. But, I'm happy to say, those days for me are now long past and I have spent many fulfiling hours, even on this very lawn upon which I now recline, not only copulating but involved in various other activities.

"In fact I was lying here naked one day, a young lady in attendance, when my next-door neighbour, the chairman of the Rural District Council, popped his head over yonder hedge to inform me that I had Dutch Elm Disease.

"But America is the place for numbers really. We've just done all the sunshine areas. Now sunshine, what ever it does to anyone else, has the most alarming repercussions within me. Things happen to my body. I undergo chemical changes.

"I find myself drooling, my tongue hanging out, my mouth snapping together involuntarily, twitchings – obsessive thoughts – the lewd imagination develops.

"In fact, I've never seen so many delightful young bodies, both quantity and quality, within such a short space of time as the last month in America. I was overwhelmed. By the end of the tour, I came back unfit for anything, completely exhausted on every level of my being. Oh! Oh!

"Nowadays I say to the rest of the lads: Take my name off the list, lads, put me on the reserve list – only to be called up in dire emergency. Then, after an afternoon in the sun by a swimming-pool with all these young bodies hanging in and out of bikinis, I say: Lads, you've got to put me back on the list. And I'll be called up to action. Oh! Oh! The battles that are fought throughout the Holiday-Inns of America! Delightful."

...

AND ENO? What of the man that the groupies of three continents have come to know as The Refreshing Experience?

"Yes," nods Fripp, his glazed expression returning. "We're both incorrigible womanizers, both wonderful examples of young Taurian virility. It may interest you to see a certain picture which will be the cover for our joint recording effort, The Transcendental Music Corporation, featuring us both in a state of undress.

"We were intending to have with us certain similarly unclad females – but, on reflection, decided that this was but a feeble excuse to gaze upon the works of the creator made manifest in the flesh.

"So we decided that it was a far nicer idea to have Eno and myself in the nude as a small way of saying thank you to those ladies who have done what they can in the past to enable us to develop as men – and, hopefully, as an invitation to all those ladies in the future who'd like to help us develop even further."

so many abundant lols in there i don't even know where to begin c/p-ing

nothing appeals to tender maidens like enduring homelessness!

oh! oh!

feel like interviewers should ask this question more often.
"What," I enquired, fully expecting a swift back-down, "was the best lay you ever had?"

that's the question they want to be asked, really

though he never really answers it, does he? how Frippian to take a simple question and drone on for twenty minutes without formulating an answer.

He'll take it all the way to Dutch elm disease, but won't answer the question! On one hand, kudos for protecting the identity of his most magnificent maiden; on the other hand, I don't even honestly want to know what's on the other hand.

Is he always this hilarious?

Yes! Well, he tries to be. Sometimes the dry wit is too dry.

how Frippian to take a simple question and drone on for twenty minutes without formulating an answer.

He loops a few notes then solos for a while -- interviewfrippertronics.

That dude is and always has been hilarious.

Not to derail Fripp sex talk but after listening to the new Lizard again I had to really up my rating for it quite a bit. Totally changes the album around and makes it so much more powerful and disorienting than the muddy original mixes. Major props to Wilson for bringing so much of it out.

If you haven't read it already you'll find Wilson's comments of interest:

"One of the first things I said to Robert when we started talking about the 5.1 mixes was that I wanted to do Lizard because for me, that’s always been an album that was too big for stereo to contain. There’s so much going on in that record.

I’ve always felt that if presented in the right way, I could make a case for this being the most experimental rock record ever made. It’s extraordinary what they’re doing on this album. In terms of fusing free-jazz with progressive rock for me there’s almost no parallel and yet it seems to an album that is overlooked by jazz fans and progressive rock fans alike.

When I was doing the Battle of Glass Tears, there were sections of that where the solos are all blowing free jazz and on the master tapes there are multiple takes. To try and figure out that spaghetti took a lot of focus and attention. That’s definitely the hardest remix I’ve done so far because the master tapes were in such a terrible state. There appeared to be no logic about where things were on the tape. I mean it was as though they were trying to make an album with 48 tracks but they only had 16. It was very ambitious.

That solo at the end of Lizard (Prince Rupert’s Lament) is just one take. There’s no edits in there. That’s 2 1/2 minutes and the notes he’s pulling out - the feeling, the sustain, the emotion. I mean if I do a solo I’ll do about 50 takes and edit the best bits together and it might sound good at the end. But just to step up like that, without any effects - just a bit of distortion and echo. Amazing."

it was as though they were trying to make an album with 48 tracks but they only had 16

Yeah, that's very much the feeling I got.

I mention in my review that it is still not clear if the band really knew what they were doing on this album, and in some ways I think Robert's comments do echo that. It seems like he just turned everyone loose and just went with whatever transpired. That's what makes it different than the other KC records, there's very little (if any) restraint on it at all. But I do think this new mix makes everything work much better. The way all the music comes crashing down on "Happy Family" is one of the most powerful moments of the album and it sounds so much bigger here.

that solo at the end of 'lizard' is really amazing, very much akin with noisier, shorter solos like on Baby's on Fire, which it was roughly contemporaneous with. really overlooked part of the crimson catalog. I hated this album the first time I heard it for some reason, now I think it and Islands are missed jewels.

Agreed on all counts. One other thing that occurred to me was KC going into the studio really digging Miles Davis, but instead trying to latch onto Bitches Brew they start unpacking Miles +19 & Sketches of Spain. Further down the road of course, Fripp ultimately wanted to do what jazz could do but 'strictly in a rock context', which makes all the sense in the world.

I'd also like to hear the rest of this 40th anniversary series and redo this poll, I suspect the results will be somewhat different.

I would like to hear the remasters of Lizard and Red and really all of these, which ones have the best extra stuff? The Crimson King package is nice, and has extra stuff, like a DVD I've never watched. Maybe I should watch it.

Anyway, here is an early MTV Martha Quinn clip also featuring MQ joking about how Robert Fripp sits down, and how funny it is: "watch what it looks like, when he sits down in this couch -- he looks like the incredible shrinking Robert Fripp"
and then finally lots of frippertronic news and then she said he was a guitar genius but his couch was too large for him. (It's toward the end of 6, beginning of 7 min if you want to skip the B52s, which you do not)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Wa3QJLkFQ

good for her, but does anyone really care about the charts anymore?

I mean CAKE had a #1 album in 2011, and it didn't even really sell that well

whoops, I posted that in the wrong thread

Okay, I just heard the Islands remaster - nowhere near as good as the Lizard one, still kinda lukewarm on it.

The interesting thing is that there is a bonus track which is basically a section of the "Larks 1" jam with some sax on it.

I'm gonna listen to this on my way home.

I decided that I will revise my S&BB review when the 40th edition comes out in a month or two - I was harsher on it than I remembered, and some of the bonus material seems great. Dunno if I disliked it so much because I found it boring or if I just thought they could do so much better.

I may post on Islands later tonight.

Prob don't have it in me to do the whole thing tonight. But dl'd the 40th Anniversary of Islands -- and after a few A/Bs of the two, the stereo remix of the title track absolutely ruins the hushed atmospherics of the original. Too much Mellotron, but more importantly noise gates on the cornet solos that all but eliminates the hissy, analog tape atmosphere in the earlier mix where you could hear players shifting in their seats. That said, I bet this sounds incredible in 5.1 surround sound.

essentially my view on that album is that it would have turned out better had they just not tried to write songs at all. Boz is basically useless. I like "Formentera Lady" but would rather just hear a 40 minute jazz session from these guys.

can't believe anyone would hate on SB&B.

My crimson introduction in the mid 80's was basically: the 80's records, then Court (I was like, "WTF"), and then SB&B, which was the total lynchpin of the entire enterprise to my 14 year old ears. Relistened the other day, i still think it is a better album than Red.

I like Larks best of the Wetton era.

Red is incredible. Larks is great but SB&B keeps stopping for noodles.

I mean take tracks 1, 2, 4 and Fracture and make it an EP ffs.

my problem is that they drew all the improv from a night where they were "off". "Trio" is indeed pretty but they don't really let any of the stuff develop. I dig "Asbury Park" but there's nothing like it on the album. As for the songs, I liked "The Night Watch" a lot more with the original intro, though it is good, but "Lament" kind of feels like filler to be. Love the electric violin on "Deciever" though. Will have to give side 2 another pop

SABB was always my favorite of the era as well. Only the title track doesn't really go anywhere. "We'll Let You Know" is great, and coalesces into a pretty massive groove by Wetton. "The Mincer" is eerie. As noted, "Trio" is amazing. For me, it's the record that feels the most like the way this band must have sounded live.

What "original intro" are you talking about for "Night Watch"? The song is recorded in the studio with a live intro.

Islands is worth it just for "Sailor's Tale" and its incredible guitar solo. In that song you can hear Fripp throwing off the baroque elements of the first KC and cueing up the harsher sound of the Wetton/Cross/Muir years.

What "original intro" are you talking about for "Night Watch"? The song is recorded in the studio with a live intro.

It's different on The Night Watch live disc. I may have to relisten to it now but I could swear it was more bombastic. IIRC the mellotron broke during that performance though which explains why the song cuts off so suddenly. I'm not really sure on any of this but that's what I remember hearing about it.

I spent some time listening to the Collectors Club release of the '98 Nashville Rehearsals--the aborted attempt to make another double trio album--it's predictably a mess, though somewhat entertaining for it. Though there are bits that would show up in Larks' IV & V, the overall sound is surprisingly light--alot of really upbeat pieces, with a surprising amount of tunes that wouldn't sound out of place in an ice skating rink. One track in particular, "Sad Woman Jam" sounds like an outtake from Discipline, kind of cool. But ultimately it's the sound of a band with one too many drummers...you can practically hear Bruford walking out the door...there just doesn't appear to be much room for a second percussionist. Anyway, an interesting curio.

Listened to Islands today for the first time in years. Still love it, and really wish they would have explored a bit more in this 'chamber-jazz' realm. Paulina Lucas, the soprano voice on "Formentera Lady" died last year; there's virtually nothing about it on the net. I need to buy the new remaster stat.

Or I could buy this "WOC" vinyl for $16 on ebay:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh310/yodelagogo/Kislands.jpg

that's awesome

that was when they reissued it on El Saturn right

Ha! Listened to this all improv recording today too, produced by Fripp. The spacy tinkles piano is nice; the skronkier/plonkier bits and Julie Tippetts' recorder and slide whistle noises are a bit irritating tho.

http://i43.tower.com/images/mm105958326/blueprint-keith-tippett-cd-cover-art.jpg

Listened to Islands today for the first time in years. Still love it, and really wish they would have explored a bit more in this 'chamber-jazz' realm. Paulina Lucas, the soprano voice on "Formentera Lady" died last year; there's virtually nothing about it on the net. I need to buy the new remaster stat.

Also, this is a good piece on the reissue:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=37630&page=1

Ok, just listened to the unedited "Asbury Park" for the first time. Agreed that the loud ass comping from Cross on Mellotron is crazy -- I was like, "Wait, where the hell is THAT on USA?" And I went back and listened to the edited version and, sure enough, it's there very quietly in the bgd. But more to the point: there's a funky jam for the last 3 or 4 minutes of the piece! My brain almost exploded.

I'm liking this.

Sparkle motion, my lizard vivarium is empty, please send me an email as well!

That Ian McDonald excerpt is totally insane. Aside from the, y'know, 'having sex' part, Fripp's sense of humor reminds me oddly of Glenn Gould's...

Oh! Oh!

I just can't agree with it. Islands is still kinda crap. Not unsalvagable, not uninteresting, but just not really a good album.

I can understand that, I guess -- but you can't deny the solo on "Sailor's Tale" and the title track's long coda with the cornet solo.

absolutely - as I mentioned I think it would be much better as just a soft jazz record w/ no songs

If I had a more substantial audio system, I'd love to hear the complete package of this -- the "Road to Islands" and so forth. I think feeling the context for it has helped with my enjoyment of it.

it would be much better as just a soft jazz record w/ no songs

Because of Sinfield's lyrics, or Boz's voice, or...? It would mostly work, except Beatles pastiche "Ladies Of The Road," which fits poorly in this record anyway, but KC was always about juxtapositions. I've listened to "Formentera Lady" three times in three days; never a favorite years ago, but (speaking of juxtapositions) the scratchy cello intro, meeting up with the sort of R. Carlos Nakai Native American flute bits, and especially the glacial sax and soprano voice outro are all just working for me lately.

And the title track is unfuckwithable for me.

That All About Jazz review of the reissue I posted upthread makes a good case for the record -- and for Boz's contributions as well.

Yeah, that was a nice piece. I think I like Boz's voice better than Lake's or Wetton's, just not as bombastic.

It's not really the lyrics or the voice, it's mostly that I just don't think he contributes anything, except maybe on "Formentera Lady". Like I'm imagining the title track without him and it seems much better. Plus I think both "Ladies" and "The Letters" are crap, so maybe those could be replaced as well. If you haven't heard it, check out the Ladies of the Road live set - these guys really could play, they were kind of a jazz-rock nightmare but they had a pretty unique sense of groove and IMO did "Schizoid Man" better than anyone.

jon lewis, check yr webmail

Oh! Oh!

(ty)

Sparkle, have you bought a bunch of stuff from the DGM website? I've been going through it recently and haven't bought anything as of yet, but it seems like a goddamn goldmine of stuff -- with great entries (and comments from fans) about the downloads themselves, what they sound like, the context for them, etc. I'm particularly interested in pulling down some of the Frippertronics concerts.

I just read the Fripp interview on PSF, he's actually a pretty amazing speaker, one of the few really worthwhile interviews I've ever read. Another one I read was Steven Wilson's (different website), who said something pretty interesting, that the reason why neo-prog is so uninspired and forgettable is that it lost its jazz base and therefore became uninspired. I've come to realize that KC's jazz background is really what made them so special. It all made sense here when someone compared '73 Crimson to Can, there's actually some real truth there, and it explains why I love these guys but can't stand bands like Tool.

the reason why neo-prog is so uninspired and forgettable is that it lost its jazz base and therefore became uninspired. I've come to realize that KC's jazz background is really what made them so special

yeah but are you including the 81-4 and post-94 line-ups in that? cos I don't hear any jazz in those line-ups at all and maybe that's why I find it hard to differentiate them from neo-prog

The Post-Red lineups still carry that heritage by who is playing in them--up until the point where Bruford, the jazziest of the bunch leaves the band for good. True that there's no jazz per se but the love of improvisation is evident from the way they write and of course play. The Projekcts, especially, bear this out.

This debate made me think of this interview w Chris Cutler in which he pretty much tears into Fripp:

VM: How do you see British groups such as King Crimson, Van der Graaf, Gentle Giant and Jethro Tull to the progressive music?

CC: Personally, I have to say that I never had much time for King Crimson. I disliked their first album and, apart from a track here and there, didn't find much I cared for on later albums either. To make things harder, they were contemporaries of Henry Cow and we were often pointlessly compared with them (especially Fred Frith who got foolishly compared/confused with Robert Fripp). But we never saw the connection really; they were working in a much narrower musical field than we were. And when they began to make big statements about their originality for improvising (around Jaimie Muir/Larks Tongues time) we found that frankly rather pathetic. But that was their way - after all Fripp claimed to have invented 'frippertronics', which is either a mark of ignorance on his part or outrageous arrogance, since every guitarist 'invented' that obvious procedure. I was not a fan of the other groups you list either, or Yes or Genesis for that matter, the quintessential 'progressive' groups. I don't think we had much in common with any of them. We certainly didn't learn anything from them. I, for instance, would havre to go back to early Zappa, Beefheart, Barrett's Pink Floyd, Soft Machine, AMM, Sun Ra, Coltrane, Coleman, Stockhausen, Schoenberg and so on for influences. And for contemporary bands in the 70's, Magma, Faust, Samla Mammas Manna.

There have been others who have voiced similar criticisms -- Gary Lucas of Magic Band fame wrote a withering review for Zoo World of Larks' Tongues when it came out.

Putting aside the fact that Cutler totally misses the humor in calling it "Frippertronics" (which Fripp has said many times was so-named bc he thought it was funny) the point I feel a lot of people miss is that 70s King Crimson wasn't about AMM-style improvisation or even jazz, really once the Islands band was put to rest -- it was about improvising in a distinctly rock context.

I think that's partly why Jamie Muir--the most obvious connection to the free improv scene--didn't last very long -- Fripp has said he hired Muir and Bruford for the band in part bc no one was the perfect drummer for the band. And once Bruford absorbed Muir's ideas and approach (such as the second section of "Starless"), the latter became kind of superfluous.

To the extent there were outside influences, they were classical composers like Bartok.

Oh, and fuck Henry Cow.

Which is to say, given what I do know of them, I'm pretty fucking certain Frith and Cutler never did a single thing that rocked .02% as hard as "Red" or the breakdown in "Schizoid Man." It's a totally different language.

And as for Cutler, everyone knows that Ubu got good again when Scott Krauss came back.

yeah but are you including the 81-4 and post-94 line-ups in that? cos I don't hear any jazz in those line-ups at all and maybe that's why I find it hard to differentiate them from neo-prog

I don't really see the 81-84 lineups as progressive rock at all. It's definitely something unique and inspired but it has a lot more in common with Talking Heads than any incarnations of Crimson past. Post-94 I think suffers from the same thing in that they lost their jazz base and started playing a lot of technical rock that was kinda cool but not very inspired. For the record I think that THRAK and TPTB are good records, but they don't have the same whoomph

A lot of their 90's onward technical rock ain't got no mood or atmosphere unless it's a repeat from an earlier song; and a lot of Fripp's work in the Projekcts sounds so similar to his stuff in the other parts of the Projekcts that I wonder if Fripp can branch out at all anymore. A couple years ago I left a guestbook entry on DGMlive stating that Fripp's guitar tone, in particular, could use something new (like a lot more grungy distortion)

To be honest most of the successes King Crimson had after the 70's band broke up should really be credited to Belew. Fripp's come up with some neat concepts but Belew always wrote the songs that made them work - I always found the the more Fripp-centric stuff that the 80's band did like the second side of TOAPP or "Requiem" to be dull, and even TPTB sounds a lot like the subsequent Belew solo albums.

Which is to say, given what I do know of them, I'm pretty fucking certain Frith and Cutler never did a single thing that rocked .02% as hard as "Red" or the breakdown in "Schizoid Man."

Um, please check out the three Art Bears albums and see if you still feel this way. They are monstrously heavy! I mean let's not throw the baby out w the bwater here just because Cutler has some weird hangups about other bands. (FYI I don't like Henry Cow either but Art Bears were a whole different deal).

And as for Cutler, everyone knows that Ubu got good again when Scott Krauss came back.

The Tenement Year is IMO the third best Ubu album after Modern and Dub so I gotta disagree with you there. Cutler is a monster when persuaded into a rock/song-based forum.

He has to talk a bunch of crap, he's a marxist.

/Which is to say, given what I do know of them, I'm pretty fucking certain Frith and Cutler never did a single thing that rocked .02% as hard as "Red" or the breakdown in "Schizoid Man."/

Um, please check out the three Art Bears albums and see if you still feel this way. They are monstrously heavy! I mean let's not throw the baby out w the bwater here just because Cutler has some weird hangups about other bands. (FYI I don't like Henry Cow either but Art Bears were a whole different deal).

Fair enough. I had forgotten about those records.

/And as for Cutler, everyone knows that Ubu got good again when Scott Krauss came back./

The Tenement Year is IMO the third best Ubu album after Modern and Dub so I gotta disagree with you there. Cutler is a monster when persuaded into a rock/song-based forum.

But that's my point -- The Tenement Year is the record Krauss came back for. My memory was he was the guy who made the difference, not Cutler.

He has to talk a bunch of crap, he's a marxist.

True enough. It reminds me of when Robert Wyatt broke w bassist (and brother of writer Ian MacDonald) Bill McCormack when the latter became an MP or something. To understand how personally betrayed Wyatt (a Stalinist and by all accounts a wonderful person) felt by it all, have a listen to the withering "Alliance" he wrote in response.

Anyway, my real point was that I think that the reason a lot of free improv-types like Cutler probably don't care for Fripp is that he went in a decidedly different direction after having probably started in somewhat similar places. And the fact that Fripp remained every bit as intense and dogmatic about his own work as these guys were about theirs probably didn't help matters.

oh yeah, damn I had changed it in my mind so that Cloudland was Krauss + Cutler and Tenement Year was just Cutler. Duh.

For a remarkably un-Marxist Cutler spiel, see his recent statement about the effects of downloading...

Anyway King Crimson! Corking great band!

revive so i could lol at this again

"In fact, I've never seen so many delightful young bodies, both quantity and quality, within such a short space of time as the last month in America. I was overwhelmed. By the end of the tour, I came back unfit for anything, completely exhausted on every level of my being. Oh! Oh!

not even a year later, i am here to revive

this time i will repost the excerpt in its entirety because it is just that good

From Robert Fripp: The Sexual Athlete, by Ian MacDonald:

"What," I enquired, fully expecting a swift back-down, "was the best lay you ever had?"

Fripp stroked his chin, reflectively. "There are about four chicks involved in that – not, in this case, simultaneously. I have to admit. However, return with me if you will to my earliest days as a rock musician. I used to get complaints from Greg (Lake). Not directly, but I used to hear about them.

"You see, we shared this flat which was basically one room divided into two by a thin cardboard screen. It was, as you can imagine, not fit to live in. Anyway, Greg used to complain about the gasps and screams coming from my side of the partition and, I must admit, his women used to get on my nerves too. No comment on Gregory, just his women – but I decided to move out.

"The ensuing period of my homelessness in 1969 was one of the most rewarding of my life. I was continually thrown on the mercies and generosities of tender maidens. Oh those lovely situations. It was quite awful in one way – but quite beautiful in another."

...

"Of course, when one is young one has all these delusions of being the great stud and one is not interested in a harmonious relationship of giving and taking. But, I'm happy to say, those days for me are now long past and I have spent many fulfiling hours, even on this very lawn upon which I now recline, not only copulating but involved in various other activities.

"In fact I was lying here naked one day, a young lady in attendance, when my next-door neighbour, the chairman of the Rural District Council, popped his head over yonder hedge to inform me that I had Dutch Elm Disease."

"Of course, when one is young one has all these delusions of being the great stud and one is not interested in a harmonious relationship of giving and taking. But, I'm happy to say, those days for me are now long past and I have spent many fulfiling hours, even on this very lawn upon which I now recline, not only copulating but involved in various other activities.

"In fact I was lying here naked one day, a young lady in attendance, when my next-door neighbour, the chairman of the Rural District Council, popped his head over yonder hedge to inform me that I had Dutch Elm Disease.

"But America is the place for numbers really. We've just done all the sunshine areas. Now sunshine, what ever it does to anyone else, has the most alarming repercussions within me. Things happen to my body. I undergo chemical changes.

"I find myself drooling, my tongue hanging out, my mouth snapping together involuntarily, twitchings – obsessive thoughts – the lewd imagination develops.

"In fact, I've never seen so many delightful young bodies, both quantity and quality, within such a short space of time as the last month in America. I was overwhelmed. By the end of the tour, I came back unfit for anything, completely exhausted on every level of my being. Oh! Oh!

"Nowadays I say to the rest of the lads: Take my name off the list, lads, put me on the reserve list – only to be called up in dire emergency. Then, after an afternoon in the sun by a swimming-pool with all these young bodies hanging in and out of bikinis, I say: Lads, you've got to put me back on the list. And I'll be called up to action. Oh! Oh! The battles that are fought throughout the Holiday-Inns of America! Delightful."

...

AND ENO? What of the man that the groupies of three continents have come to know as The Refreshing Experience?

"Yes," nods Fripp, his glazed expression returning. "We're both incorrigible womanizers, both wonderful examples of young Taurian virility. It may interest you to see a certain picture which will be the cover for our joint recording effort, The Transcendental Music Corporation, featuring us both in a state of undress.

"We were intending to have with us certain similarly unclad females – but, on reflection, decided that this was but a feeble excuse to gaze upon the works of the creator made manifest in the flesh.

"So we decided that it was a far nicer idea to have Eno and myself in the nude as a small way of saying thank you to those ladies who have done what they can in the past to enable us to develop as men – and, hopefully, as an invitation to all those ladies in the future who'd like to help us develop even further."

Oh! Oh!

I can only imagine Fripp having sex sitting on a little stool with a very serious face

LOL

Great thread.

I listened to Fripp's strangely poignant motivational speech this morning ("from good to great") and he tells a story about the VV editor's cats named Fripp & Eno.

listened to starless & bible black and lizards to wash away the eoy traxpoll (lolz) and hey they're rly gr8

especially the former, my god

actually wait no, lizards was equally brilliant in its own way. very surreal, crazy record, elements of weird proto-techno flitting thru the mix too

and then the Fripp String Quartet, whose closing movement, Threnody For Souls In Torment, is a staggering work of pure icy terror

lizard's my favorite and i wish they'd done more cosmic circus music like that

sparkle motion, where did you source the perf of 'Red' on Megaphonium Fanfare from? It's not the one on Absent Lovers which is the only live Belew lineup album I have...

Lizard is underrated, especially the title trak

Jon - That one is from a boot I pulled off the net, Den Haag, NL, 2003. Let me know if you'd like the rest of it.

Is the rest of the gig comparable? (I see where I can download it from).

Am I right that we are getting closer to the live debut of the new line-up?

Logic would suggest that, yes.

No, I mean, there are dates, correct? September?

Meanwhile:

http://issuu.com/samsleiman/docs/mike_giles

In all seriousness, I have no idea.This is the most recent thing I could find, in Uncut:

"The first performance will take place in either North or South America," Fripp told Uncut. "There will be rehearsals primarily in England, and the final batch of rehearsals will most likely be in America in August or September 2014. There is a plan to include the UK in the tour dates, but it depends on a number of circumstances. Right now the primary geographical focus is the United States."

http://www.uncut.co.uk/node/19245#mmsoVdUHJq4rCBS2.99

I'd have to listen to the Den Haag gig again to say whether the rest of it is noteworthy- I remember the mix not being as clean- sounds like a radio broadcast. But if you want a great recording of that band, 'New Haven CT 11/14/03 (KCCC44), is a killer. It's the last gig of that band's life, and in true KC fashion they give their final performance their all.

I gave a listen to the Den Haag show in its entirety. Noteable moments are a good runthrough of Dangerous Curves with a proper climax to the song, and LTIA IV wherein the coda is played without the vocals, making it about a hundred times better than any version in which those lyrics are sung.
Otherwise, it's a pretty typical gig.

The New Haven show is pretty spectacular, particularly Level 5 and Lark's 4. I'm just lately starting to shuffle through the live recordings of this phase of the band (having not been a huge fan of the last two albums on the whole, but having been a fan since 86 or so).

Is new haven still buyable as a download from DGM?

dunno, it is still available on the internet in places.

it's going to be pretty weird to not have Belew in this band, frankly. I wonder if they'll avoid his and the 80's bands songs. I know those have been frankly played to death at this point, but still. That was my entry into KC.

Who's singing? Jaczycjjck?

yes

he can reliably cover earlier KC material but I think it would be stepping on toes and just kind of wrong to do Belew written material, so I assume they won't

After the Den Haag show I've been playing the last KC recording, from '08 with the double drum setup. Funny that they essentially fused the setlists from The Power to Believe tour with the standard Thrak era numbers- generally this gig is more interesting than invigorating- Levin is a lot less muscular than Gunn on the more "recent" stuff, but when it comes to Frame by Frame and the like he can play it in his sleep. Overall I found myself more intrigued than I had in the past by the presence of a 2nd drummer. It's abundantly clear that Fripp loves clattering percussion, and this show has it in abundance.

A little more time together probably would have done them some good, but maybe enough was enough. Truly I never quite got his motivation for that brief incarnation of Crim.

Me either. It's a good lineup and I wish they'd donea record with Harrison, so maybe they will now. Maybe not?

I'm not keen on Jakko but really I can't imagine who in Fripp's world would be a more preferable (to me) frontman etc.

I listened to Fripp's strangely poignant motivational speech this morning ("from good to great") and he tells a story about the VV editor's cats named Fripp & Eno.

― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:55 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

ok so i listened to this and have thought about it so many times since. it was really good. but the real reason i am posting here is because r fripp's sister is the reason he recorded that speech -- she's really big on the public speaking circuit and does lots of trainings and whatnot. she was featured on "from good to great" briefly.

flash forward to this past weekend. i went home to visit my parents and my mom needed some help with her computer. she received an email from p@tricia fripp and i was like "p@tricia fripp -- is that robert fripp's sister?!" (i didn't remember her name) and my mom was like "how do you know who robert fripp is?" turns out my mom has attended some of p fripp's seminars and she was aware that her brother was a guitar player, but did not know he was someone that i would have any interest in. we loled, we told my dad who these people are, nbd. i played

THEN the next morning i stopped by before i took off i stopped by and my mom went to use the bathroom, but my dad and i heard her giggling. it was kind of weird. she came back downstairs and said that she was talking with p fripp, who had called her to arrange some sort of appt, and she had emailed a link for me (my mom told her about the previous day's lols). apparently robert fripp's next public speaking engagement is also available via live stream, so if anyone wants that -- i've got the link! so weird.

of course the whole time in the back of my mind were fripp and eno humping their way across the usa (i did not mention this to my parents)
Oh! Oh! The battles that are fought throughout the Holiday-Inns of America! Delightful."

the end

i played
oops-- forgot to finish that sentence -- i youtubed some songs so my mom could hear the guitar playing of robert fripp and she agreed that yes, he is a top notch guitar player and very inventive

OMG all of this is most satisfactory indeed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftAWA_oUFOA

She was one step removed from a carnival barker at the merch table on the tour.

omg lol

it's really unnerving how their faces look so much alike
they're not twins are they?!

Also how they refer to themselves in the third person.

what if they address one another in conversation as 'brother' and 'sister'?

I think it would be great if she was the variety of motivational speaker that spends her time onstage seated, nearly motionless, staring at a laptop and other devices surrounding her, and thus is reliant on more outgoing American underlings to engage the audience that paid to attend the event and to be motivated (I'm sure someone else has made that funnee on the innuhnet at some point).

she's really nice and ives in the bay area. she worked the merch table at the KC shows here a few months ago; she told me a 'medium' would probably fit me because I was not as 'chubby as some of our fans'.

!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8t4lYNjS0Y#t=80

what do people think of Lizard?

the steven wilson remix is nice

Agreed. Love the weird, sometimes ugly Third Stream sound of the record.

I'd probably vote for Lizard if we ran this poll again. So weird, so heavy. That Steven Wilson remix is indeed something of a revelation. Too bad they never played "Indoor Games" live, there is a clip of the Islands-era band playing "Cirkus" though

I do not get why everyone loves Red. It rocks. I enjoy it. But what does this record do that Black Sabbath or Deep Purple or even Genesis didnt do better years before?

this post still baffles me

I think Lizard is underrated. I have always loved "Cirkus", and although Haskell's vocals sound like Marlon Brando chewing on a ham sandwich, the title track and a few of the other middle tracks make it worthwhile. it's weird, it's not immediate, but I think it was my second KC album.

Red or Lark's Tongues for me though, usually.