Tango in the Night POLL (Fleetwood Mac)

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

I don't even know what my vote will be, because this thing is STACKED with quality.

Poll Results

OptionVotes
7. "Little Lies" (McVie, Quintela) – 3:38 11
3. "Everywhere (McVie) – 3:41 8
9. "Welcome to the Room...Sara" (Nicks) – 3:37 7
1. "Big Love" (Buckingham) – 3:37 3
5. "Tango in the Night" (Buckingham) – 3:56 1
6. "Mystfied" (McVie, Buckingham) – 3:06 1
4. "Caroline" (Buckingham) – 3:50 1
11. "When I See You Again" (Nicks) – 3:47 1
12. "You and I, Part II" (Buckingham, McVie) – 2:401
8. "Family Man" (Buckingham, Dashut) – 4:01 0
2. "Seven Wonders" (Stewart, Nicks) – 3:38 0
10. "Isn't It Midnight" (McVie, Quintela, Buckingham) – 4:06 0


Johnny Fever, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:08 (eleven years ago) Permalink

this is hard. i'm definitely not voting for "welcome to the room... sara"

creme1, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:13 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Great idea for a poll...

This is such a strange album: of its time yet so determined NOT to be, thanks to Buckingham. It's not as consistent as Mirage, but Tango contains little El Lay studio-pop residue. Quite top-heavy too: are any of the album tracks as strong as the singles? Nicks' tracks, "Seven Wonders" excepted (mostly cuz of the synth-chime hook) are her worst ever. "Caroline" and the title track aren't anything more than catchphrases and excuses for Lindsay to shred.

Anyway, my vote is for "Little Lies," a fully deserved huge hit that manages to sound contemporary and deeply weird.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:33 (eleven years ago) Permalink

It's also an oddity in that, for the first time since Rumours, no one singing/songwriting member had an edge on any of the others, and all the singles (I think, at least) far surpass any that came from Mirage.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:37 (eleven years ago) Permalink

(note: I actually like all the Nicks tracks on this album)

Johnny Fever, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:39 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"caroline" is amazing tribal-pop, how can you deny those drums! sounds like lindsay had been listening to japan. also, christine's fake eastern chanting is gorgeous.

creme1, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:40 (eleven years ago) Permalink

It's also an oddity in that, for the first time since Rumours, no one singing/songwriting member had an edge on any of the others, and all tihe singles (I think, at least) far surpass any that came from Mirage.

Post-Rumours, I've always thought they were equal!

Duds on Tusk: "Honey Hi" (McVie), "Angel" (Nicks), "I Know I'm Not Wrong" (Buckingham)

Duds on Mirage: "Straight Back" (Nicks), "Wish You Were Here" (McVie), "Empire State" (Buckingham).

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:47 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I must say, "Welcome to the Room...Sara" (love the ellipsis) is a masterful arrangement saving a dull song. Luurve Christine's harmonies in the last third ("For Sc-a-a-r-l-e-e-e-t-t...") and Fleetwood's drums.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I wasn't talking about equality in duds, Alfred. Equality in peaks!

Buckingham kind of owned Tusk and Mirage, and Tango was the return of everyone having not only stellar singles, but also pretty good deeper cuts too.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:57 (eleven years ago) Permalink

oops! I keep forgetting to hit the BBcode button.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 20 July 2007 01:57 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Alfred I can't believe you list the excellent "Empire State" rather than "Oh Diane" as Buckingham's dud on Mirage!

As for Tango in the Night, I've been very partial to "Isn't It Midnight" recently. After that I'd probably plump for "Caroline".

Couldn't vote for "Big Love" only because the live acoustic version is so much better.

"Seven Wonders" is Stevie's weakest big single and the album tracks are her weakest album tracks.

Tim F, Friday, 20 July 2007 04:14 (eleven years ago) Permalink

For feel, I love "Mystified" best--not the album's strongest song, but what a gorgeous sound. Between that, "Little Lies" and "Everywhere." (I guess on this particular album I like McVie's stuff the best.)

sw00ds, Friday, 20 July 2007 12:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

As for Tango in the Night, I've been very partial to "Isn't It Midnight" recently

I used to be, but there's a tension between Buckingham's raunchy valedictory solo and the programmed percussion and chimes that's never quite resolved.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 20 July 2007 12:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

tim mostly otm, but i like 'everywhere' best

electricsound, Friday, 20 July 2007 12:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Yes "Everywhere" is brilliant. I was very annoyed when someone made a swirly house-pop cover version, only because I felt they'd stolen my idea and not done as good a job with it as I would have done.

I should note that I find it odd when people say this album is more idiosyncratic than Mirage. I guess the production has that whole pristine rainforest feel to it, but Buckingham's songs are so much more straightforward than on Mirage, and he's even got that smooth 80s vocalist vibe going on. Surely the whole point of the album is that it unambiguously goes for the pop jugular?

Can't say I'm too partial to "Family Man", which feels like such a pointless wisp of a song, although the guitar bits are excellent.

"there's a tension between Buckingham's raunchy valedictory solo and the programmed percussion and chimes that's never quite resolved."

Ha ha this sounds like an argument for the song's greatness. But i think I particularly love the new wave sheen to Christine's vocals.

Tim F, Friday, 20 July 2007 17:51 (eleven years ago) Permalink

This was my first FM record. Took me more than a decade to get the others (read: classics). I honestly can't remember much from the album even though I did play it on repeat for weeks. Hmm.

stevienixed, Friday, 20 July 2007 17:54 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Al-FRED. How could you possibly say I know I'm not wrong is a dud? The chorus alone is so elegant, the way it deflects the melody just a bit to the side instead of forcing a hook. And it works! Its the perfect new-wavey Beach Boys pastiche. Explain yourself please! (not too well though, I'd like to continue liking it!)

I know, right?, Friday, 20 July 2007 20:12 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I suppose I can't, but of many fascinating Buckingham songs it's not my favorite. The introduction, for instance, reminds me too much of my beloved "Not That funny."

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 20 July 2007 20:20 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Also: when on earth are we getting remastered versions of this and Mirage? Anyone heard any of Tango's b-sides??

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 20 July 2007 20:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

But they're sister songs, Not that funny has almost the same music and chorus and don't they both contain the "here comes the night time" bridge?

I know, right?, Friday, 20 July 2007 20:31 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I've never heard Mirage. Would kill to. But i've never even seen it for sale. I'm gonna have to amazon the thing soon.

I know, right?, Friday, 20 July 2007 20:32 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"Little Lies". Do it for me. Honestly.

t**t, Friday, 20 July 2007 21:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the b-side to "7 wonders" is a pretty cool instrumental, "book of miracles" i think it's called. sounds like christine wrote it. it's nice.

creme1, Friday, 20 July 2007 22:00 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"Little Lies" is the best thing Fleetwood Mac did ever do. Thus, my pick is easy even though "Tango In The Night" had lots of strong tracks.

Geir Hongro, Friday, 20 July 2007 22:18 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the b-side to "7 wonders" is a pretty cool instrumental, "book of miracles" i think it's called. sounds like christine wrote it. it's nice

Oooh!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 20 July 2007 22:37 (eleven years ago) Permalink

At the moment I'm leaning towards Everywhere, it might be McVie's best ever, after Over & Over of course.

I know, right?, Friday, 20 July 2007 22:51 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Lots of Lindsey being very Lindsey on the production as well.

I know, right?, Friday, 20 July 2007 22:51 (eleven years ago) Permalink

About this album gets the same HDCD treatment their three late 70s albums got. It's better than all of them.

Geir Hongro, Saturday, 21 July 2007 00:35 (eleven years ago) Permalink

lolz

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 21 July 2007 23:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

This may sound even better.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 21 July 2007 23:09 (eleven years ago) Permalink

little lies

stephen, Sunday, 22 July 2007 00:26 (eleven years ago) Permalink

LULZ I'd forgotten how lame Lindsey's replacements were. xxp

Johnny Fever, Sunday, 22 July 2007 01:26 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Ha ha ha that Kids Inc. one is especially great since that's FERGIE.

Phil D., Sunday, 22 July 2007 02:25 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

ILX System, Sunday, 22 July 2007 23:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

LULZ I'd forgotten how lame Lindsey's replacements were. xxp

Lindsey once said, "At least it took TWO guitarists to replace me, heh heh."

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 22 July 2007 23:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ILX System, Monday, 23 July 2007 23:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

C.McVie pwns all.

Steve Shasta, Monday, 23 July 2007 23:03 (eleven years ago) Permalink

The only surprise is how well "Welcome to the Room...Sara" did.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 23 July 2007 23:14 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Correct winner :)

Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 00:05 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"Seven Wonders" got NO VOTES?!

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 00:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Oh shit I forgot to actually vote for "Isn't It Midnight".

Tim F, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 00:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Seriously, seven people think "Welcome to the Room... Sara" is the best song on this album? Surely these people have not actually heard it and are just assuming any Stevie song with the name "Sara" in it must be good?

It is awful.

Tim F, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 00:43 (eleven years ago) Permalink

eight months pass...

Shame to see "Family Man" getting no love.

Bodrick III, Saturday, 19 April 2008 17:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

just picked this up for £1 + i love it even more than i remembered but wtf at 7 votes for welcome to the room sara!?!!

just sayin, Saturday, 5 September 2009 14:02 (nine years ago) Permalink

2. "Seven Wonders" (Stewart, Nicks) – 3:38 0

This is one of the fuckedest things in the history of ILM polls.

Johnny Fever, Saturday, 5 September 2009 14:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

otm

just sayin, Saturday, 5 September 2009 14:11 (nine years ago) Permalink

wtf at 7 votes for welcome to the room sara!?!!

The seven core members of ilm's Stevie stans, innit.

DavidM, Saturday, 5 September 2009 14:36 (nine years ago) Permalink

Yeah but what's weird is that it's the worst of her three songs on there. Voting for it seems terribly perverse.

Tim F, Saturday, 5 September 2009 15:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

exactly!! it cant just be abt stevie nicks fans

just sayin, Saturday, 5 September 2009 15:55 (nine years ago) Permalink

It's NOT worse than "When Will I See You"!

WASSA MADDA BABY....BABY...BAY-BEE....BABY!

My life is butthurt so badly (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 5 September 2009 17:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

i also picked this up recently and was surprised at how amazing it still sounds. "caroline" in particular deserves more love

psychgawsple, Sunday, 6 September 2009 04:40 (nine years ago) Permalink

i think this could be stevie nicks' worst contributions to any record she's been involved with imo

i wonder how many of the people who voted for "welcome.." are mixing it up with "sara" from tusk

surfin on my face (electricsound), Sunday, 6 September 2009 05:07 (nine years ago) Permalink

" "caroline" in particular deserves more love"

this is spot on.

My issue with "Welcome To The Room... Sara" is that it sounds like a parody song, like something from that French & Saunders send up of Fleetwood Mac. It actively undermines all of Stevie's signature tricks. "When Will I See You" is merely weak.

Nicks' songs are amazingly strong on Say You Will, but then I've not heard the stuff she's done between the two albums.

Tim F, Sunday, 6 September 2009 10:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

Like Bella Donna, Trouble in Shangri-La, etc? If you like Nicks, you'll love the albums, but outside maybe one or two tracks (Nomad, maybe?) nothing really knock-out there.

Mordy, Sunday, 6 September 2009 10:24 (nine years ago) Permalink

I know Bella Donna, The Wild Heart and Rock Little, just none after that.

But then I rarely listen to those ones much. What's interesting about Nicks is that she really does work so well as a group player, even though her songwriting style would never suggest it. The half of Say You Will she contributes is possibly as much Nicks as I'd really want in one sitting.

Tim F, Sunday, 6 September 2009 10:29 (nine years ago) Permalink

eight months pass...

CAROLINE

wilter, Thursday, 3 June 2010 10:22 (eight years ago) Permalink

all the "ooh ah"s in "big love" are still bizarre

kamerad, Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

Seven Wonders is pretty good, deserved a vote imo.

_▂▅▇█▓▒░◕‿‿◕░▒▓█▇▅▂_ (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

Yes "Everywhere" is brilliant. I was very annoyed when someone made a swirly house-pop cover version

Tiiiiiiim, who did this?

mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

think i've heard it

basically they looped bits of it so it's longer and added some helpful echoes

truff sqwad (history mayne), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

theres def a balearic disco edit that jaxon posted on the noize board FM thread iirc.

_▂▅▇█▓▒░◕‿‿◕░▒▓█▇▅▂_ (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

You've all heard this, I hope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9ovcZKmMpw

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

There is no way the Little Lies voters have heard the whole thing.

Davek (davek_00), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

jeez al i didnt know you thought honey hi was a dud

max, Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

feel like i dont even know you and i cant trust your opinion anymore

max, Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

you talkin' to me?

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:43 (eight years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9zbCuD1ulA

???

Vision Creation Mansun (NickB), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

Duds on Tusk: "Honey Hi" (McVie), "Angel" (Nicks), "I Know I'm Not Wrong" (Buckingham)

Duds on Mirage: "Straight Back" (Nicks), "Wish You Were Here" (McVie), "Empire State" (Buckingham).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, July 19, 2007 9:47 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

max, Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:52 (eight years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, I'll still stand by that.

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:54 (eight years ago) Permalink

h8 you

max, Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

HONEY HOOO-NEY HI

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

No sacred cows stand in the way of McChallops.

_▂▅▇█▓▒░◕‿‿◕░▒▓█▇▅▂_ (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 3 June 2010 16:00 (eight years ago) Permalink

stfu and listen to the "Seven Wonders" 12", heathens.

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 June 2010 16:00 (eight years ago) Permalink

how did seven wonders get 0 votes and mystified get only 1??

Future_Perfect (LOLK), Thursday, 3 June 2010 16:03 (eight years ago) Permalink

The correct question: how did "Welcome to the Room....Sara" get seven votes?

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 June 2010 16:05 (eight years ago) Permalink

Late to thread but I gotta agree with Tim above about "Oh Diane" being more of a dud than "Empire State" - I get what he's trying to do with it but it's still one of my least favourite Mac songs ever, whereas I really quite like "Empire State" even while realizing it's not top-drawer. But y'know, it's all taste.

Probably a good thing that I never voted on this because I realized that I've only ever heard the singles here. I really should get me a copy of the full album - I think I've given up on Rhino actually bringing out Mirage and Tango in their reissue series, what with the long gap since the first batch.

Sean Carruthers, Thursday, 3 June 2010 16:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

TITN is their best seller post-Rumours too.

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 June 2010 16:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

The correct question: how did "Welcome to the Room....Sara" get seven votes?

yeah that song is such a chore

Future_Perfect (LOLK), Thursday, 3 June 2010 16:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

A+ 4Eva: "Caroline", "Everywhere", "Isn't It Midnight"
A: "Seven Wonders", "Big Love", "Tango In The Night", "You & I"
A-: "Little Lies", "Mystified"
B: "Family Man"
...
D-: "When I See You Again"
...
F: "Welcome to the Room... Sara"

Tim F, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 12:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

"isn't it midnight" is the only one i can't remember how it goes

all the arthur baker club mixes that came with the 12" singles are solid gold

fuckd and bombd (r1o natsume), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 12:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

"family man" is the underrated gem on this album. such a simple song packed with so many little details. and lindsay's flamenco guitar solos are immense

fuckd and bombd (r1o natsume), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 12:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

eight months pass...

the cover art for this album is just so perfect

just sayin, Friday, 11 February 2011 09:10 (seven years ago) Permalink

you know EXACTLY what its going to sound like

just sayin, Friday, 11 February 2011 09:10 (seven years ago) Permalink

just sayin.

ouroboros shoal (diamonddave85), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:54 (seven years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Just got around to listening to some "Tango" demos, and man, is Stevie's "Joan Of Arc" weird/spooky. Destroyer could /should cover this.

Here's the demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Ocjnf7Tng&feature=watch_response_rev

And here's the "finished" version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9btTlkvIP9c

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 April 2011 18:02 (seven years ago) Permalink

three months pass...

"mystified" is the sleeper on this album

missingNO, Friday, 5 August 2011 13:02 (seven years ago) Permalink

I cannot believe nobody voted for Seven Wonders or Isn't It Midnight! The super-urgent guitar outra on the latter is a one-way ticket to Lindsey heaven.

Clarke B., Friday, 5 August 2011 14:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

^^^^^^ Absolutely. Under the circumstances everyone who voted for "Welcome to the room... Sara" should be shot and killed. I don't care if they were joke votes.

Tim F, Friday, 5 August 2011 23:30 (seven years ago) Permalink

FRONT LINE BABEEEE

livin in my own private Biden hole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 August 2011 01:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

is there a version of that everywhere demo longer than 1:17?

caek, Saturday, 6 August 2011 01:46 (seven years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

such crazy results, 'welcome to the room... sara' is a pretty bad song almost made good by producer-lindsey's insistence that it be good, but why vote for it when you could have 'seven wonders', an okay song almost made amazing by producer-lindsey's insistence? also, poor 'family man'. i heard it dropped in the middle of a nu-disco set a while back and it was somehow perfect.

Perfect Chicken Forever (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 20 October 2012 00:34 (six years ago) Permalink

"Seven Wonders" is classic Lindsey playing Capn Save a Stevie.

the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 20 October 2012 12:16 (six years ago) Permalink

five months pass...

Finally got round to actually checking this out properly. Other than the big hits, I love the title track the best.

pssstttt, Hey you (dog latin), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 16:18 (five years ago) Permalink

six months pass...

family man rules and deserves some epic balearic remix

ryan, Saturday, 28 September 2013 17:49 (five years ago) Permalink

this does a decent job of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrLRzxYq4Z8

opie dead eyed piece of shit (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 28 September 2013 18:37 (five years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

Great interview. I knew of course about Nicks at Betty Ford and Lindsey chasing her around the house after he announced he was leaving but apparently it was still all rather mad.

Fleetwood says that he and Nicks were doing more cocaine during the making of Tango than when they were recording Rumours — an album on which they seriously considered thanking their drug dealer in the credits. “Actually” he admits, “it was way worse on Tango In The Night. For sure.”

Certainly , I smoked a lot of pot. But I was never a big user of coke,” Buckingham notes. And by the mid-80s, he’d had enough. ” The subculture was pretty much at the point of burning itself out,” he recalled. “The ‘anything goes’ attitude that existed in the 60s had become something entirely different. But still, everyone thought you had to do certain things to play, and I don’t know that I ever thought about it that way.”

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 00:50 (four years ago) Permalink

ooh

föllakzoidberg (electricsound), Monday, 3 February 2014 00:52 (four years ago) Permalink

The Ken Caillat book divided the band into a pot side and a coke side, with Buckingham sticking mostly to pot and Nicks and Mick to coke (Christine strikes me as pot; John, of course, was all about alcohol). Stevie had it worst, reportedly, because she had so little to do in the studio and was basically left alone to take all the drugs, coke, pot, whatever.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 3 February 2014 15:08 (four years ago) Permalink

I don't think there's any other band in history that makes me simultaneously think "man, I would have loved to be in this band" and "man, I'm glad I was never in this band" more than Fleetwood Mac.

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 21:19 (four years ago) Permalink

(would have voted for 'Everywhere', btw.)

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 21:20 (four years ago) Permalink

I'm ecstatic that my predictions about this album displacing Tusk as influence have come true, with Classixx doing "Seven Wonders" 12-inch song right

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 21:27 (four years ago) Permalink

I feel the urge to listen to Tango In The Night right now. I'm going to give into that urge, dammit.

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 21:38 (four years ago) Permalink

Christine kills on this album

Master of Treacle, Monday, 3 February 2014 21:41 (four years ago) Permalink

The fact that Everywhere didn't win this in an almost embarassing landslide makes me think I should probably listen to the rest of the album. Will do in a moment.

Frederik B, Monday, 3 February 2014 21:42 (four years ago) Permalink

i would def put this on before Tusk in 2014

|$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅| (gr8080), Monday, 3 February 2014 21:48 (four years ago) Permalink

I'm ecstatic that my predictions about this album displacing Tusk as influence have come true, with Classixx doing "Seven Wonders" 12-inch song right

― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, February 3, 2014 9:27 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sorta feel like this has been true for some time now, especially on the balearic-meets-So end of indie: A Mountain of One stealing the groove of "Caroline", Yeasayer and VW's second albums etc.

Actually a comp of contemporary stuff that takes its cues from Tango would be fun to put together.

Tim F, Monday, 3 February 2014 22:01 (four years ago) Permalink

Fine source material to be found here: Examples of Fleetwood Mac worship in bands from 2000-present.

Johnny Fever, Monday, 3 February 2014 22:02 (four years ago) Permalink

God, 'Caroline' is awful...

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:04 (four years ago) Permalink

Destroyer has covered Everywhere, Vampire Weekend has covered Everywhere, apparantly Haim has acknowledged the influence of Everywhere on their music. Everywhere is awesome. As is the rest of the album, it seems, so far.

Frederik B, Monday, 3 February 2014 22:05 (four years ago) Permalink

Those lung-busting long notes on the title track, though! Sublime.

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:06 (four years ago) Permalink

def A Mountain of One, Haim, and Dawn Richard, don't hear it in Contra so much, although I'd love to read where you do!

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:06 (four years ago) Permalink

Vampire Weekend has LITERALLY covered Everywhere.

Johnny Fever, Monday, 3 February 2014 22:07 (four years ago) Permalink

Fleetwood's drumming on the title track is fabulous.

I'm pretty sure "Caroline" and "Family Man" are Buck solo tracks, i.e. no other band members on them.

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:07 (four years ago) Permalink

God, 'Caroline' is awful...

― Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, February 3, 2014 4:04 PM (2 minutes ago)

WHAT

|$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅| (gr8080), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:08 (four years ago) Permalink

Man, does Nicks' voice sound fucked on 'When I See You Again'. I suppose it adds a cracked vulnerability to the track, but it sounds croaky as all hell.

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:26 (four years ago) Permalink

WHASSA MATTA BABEE

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:26 (four years ago) Permalink

Hahahaha... I'd forgotten how much the groove on 'You and I' reminded me of 'Agadoo'.

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:28 (four years ago) Permalink

In the interview I linked Nicks insists the idea of letting Buck take over the song was intentional; I dunno. To me it sounds like she had two minutes of material and he had to flesh it out on his own.

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:28 (four years ago) Permalink

7 votes for "welcome to the room sara"? that's like the one song on this one i cant stand!

diamonddave85‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌ (diamonddave85), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:31 (four years ago) Permalink

oooh
missionary

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:31 (four years ago) Permalink

In the interview I linked Nicks insists the idea of letting Buck take over the song was intentional; I dunno. To me it sounds like she had two minutes of material and he had to flesh it out on his own.

― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, February 3, 2014 10:28 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, that's what I thought from listening to it again. It sounded as if she'd recorded the vocal up to a point and Lindsey was like "well, Stevie's not around and we have to finish this track, so..."

Thing is, I actually really don't mind the song. I just think the vocal isn't up to snuff and could have been so much better... but it's kinda obvious why it is the way it is.

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:36 (four years ago) Permalink

I might be wrong but the last bit of anarchy in "Isn't It Midnight" sounds like an excellent attempt to lengthen the song (and he gets cowriting credit).

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:39 (four years ago) Permalink

So yeah, all the singles on this are brilliant, basically. The title track being my 'deep cut' choice, and at least one song ('When I See You Again') that really could have been much more.

Duds for me: 'Caroline' (not much of a song), 'You and I, Part II' (sounds like a corny office Christmas party tune)

Don't know why I haven't listened to this album for so long, but feeling at least glad I listened to it again tonight.

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:42 (four years ago) Permalink

Nowhere near my favorite FM album, in fact, probably my least favorite of the 1975-87 run. Christine seems to have brought the most quality to the record, and I think LB & SN suffered fatigue from saving their best material for their solo records.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 3 February 2014 22:59 (four years ago) Permalink

"4.4 Who is "Emmiline," in "Seven Wonders?" (Stevie Nicks)

This song was written by Sandy Stewart. Sandy's demo had the
lyrics "you held the line," but Stevie heard it as "Emmiline."
As to who or where Emmiline is, Stevie has been quoted as saying
that she made it up.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 3 February 2014 23:00 (four years ago) Permalink

for which she got "additional lyrics by" credit!

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 23:01 (four years ago) Permalink

xp Stevie apparently turns misheard things into song lyrics all the time. Edge of Seventeen is from a conversation with Tom Petty's wife who, with a very thick southern drawl, had actually said "age of seventeen".

Johnny Fever, Monday, 3 February 2014 23:04 (four years ago) Permalink

xp Hot Chip have also covered Everywhere. And Classixx do great work with Seven Wonders. Balearic innit?

What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Monday, 3 February 2014 23:06 (four years ago) Permalink

"Everywhere" is far and away my favorite on this, though Buckingham's solo live version of "Big Love" is great too. However, the album isn't that great. Mirage a lot more consistent.

Dominique, Monday, 3 February 2014 23:11 (four years ago) Permalink

^^^ agree

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 February 2014 23:14 (four years ago) Permalink

kicking myself for not picking up a nice-looking LP of this one last week (came back to the store a couple days later but it was gone, alas). Haim alone is gonna cement it as the 2010s' essential Mac album.

col, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 00:11 (four years ago) Permalink

I in 2014 or most other years would out in Tusk before Mirage or Tango, but Tango and Mirage are both awesome and the only reason I might not reach for either is that they are so fussy and trebly it hurts. Which on other days is a pair of good things! Love Buckingham's stuff.

At least a third of "Say You Will" is the Bucky solo show, too. I love how the band just can't do anything without him at this point, and he has to reluctantly sacrifice solo tracks to the Mac gods.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 00:11 (four years ago) Permalink

Yeah, a lot of stuff (well some stuff) that was on the Gift of Screws bootleg wound up on Say You Will. I really wish "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind" had...not that the solo LB version is weak in any way, but I might've liked to have heard it fleshed out even a little more by Fleetwood Mac.

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 00:15 (four years ago) Permalink

I love Say You Will. It's got some of Nicks' very best performances and songs.

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 4 February 2014 00:19 (four years ago) Permalink

In the interview I linked Nicks insists the idea of letting Buck take over the song was intentional

ooh, which song alfred - I'm confused

the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Tuesday, 4 February 2014 11:11 (four years ago) Permalink

"When I See You Again"

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 4 February 2014 11:52 (four years ago) Permalink

Ah, gotcha - thanks

the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Tuesday, 4 February 2014 11:54 (four years ago) Permalink

Am I missing a bit? I don't think that song's mentioned in the piece you linked.

the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Tuesday, 4 February 2014 11:56 (four years ago) Permalink

nine months pass...

Then Play Long on the mysterious case of the disintegrating band: http://nobilliards.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/fleetwood-mac-tango-in-night.html

agincourtgirl, Thursday, 27 November 2014 16:12 (three years ago) Permalink

That's really great!

you fuck one chud... (stevie), Thursday, 27 November 2014 19:09 (three years ago) Permalink

ooh

― föllakzoidberg (electricsound)

missionary

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 27 November 2014 19:48 (three years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

This has, weirdly, developed into my favourite Fleetwood Mac record. Even 'Caroline' and 'You and I, Part II' have grown on me.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Sunday, 1 January 2017 18:34 (one year ago) Permalink

9. "Welcome to the Room...Sara" (Nicks) – 3:37 7

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Sunday, 1 January 2017 18:53 (one year ago) Permalink

How did seven wonders get no votes

monotony, Sunday, 1 January 2017 22:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Was wondering that myself, the two mcvie masterpieces are impossible to deny, though

a but (brimstead), Sunday, 1 January 2017 22:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Family Man sorta robbed here

Wimmels, Monday, 2 January 2017 02:13 (one year ago) Permalink

"Isn't it Midnight" is an astonishingly brilliant song. Can't believe it got no love here.

beamish13, Monday, 2 January 2017 05:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, the votes for Welcome To The Room are baffling. Probably Stevies worst song on a Fleetwood Mac album.
Undeniable as Christine's two mega hits are Ive probably listened to Caroline or the title track most by choice. Tango (the song) is just so fantastically overblown with those long held chorus notes and the I'm So Afraid pt 2 outro solo.

Dan.S., Monday, 2 January 2017 12:19 (one year ago) Permalink

"Welcome to the Room...SARA!" reminds me of this all-time thread: A thread for Steve n.'s list of songs that his boss sings

brekekekexit collapse collapse (ledge), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 14:01 (one year ago) Permalink

FRONTLINE BAYBY

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 15:23 (one year ago) Permalink

All the songs that got 0 votes are incredible, IMO.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:11 (one year ago) Permalink

I remember listening to Tango In The Night (the song) as an eleven year old and wondering if that was what heavy metal sounded like

There shouldn't be a thread for Dennis Perrin tweets (stevie), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Also the version of I'm So Afraid on the sublime 1980 live LP

There shouldn't be a thread for Dennis Perrin tweets (stevie), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:59 (one year ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

yessssss

niels, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:06 (one year ago) Permalink

TAAAAANNNNGOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

hoping the remastering here is as revelatory as mirage's

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Kind of a dick move to make the 12-Inches exclusive to the big box.

Still, YAY!

"I must believe that my charm was not in my ass." (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:21 (one year ago) Permalink

At least I'LL have remastered versions of "Down Endless Streets" and Y&I Pt. 1.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:27 (one year ago) Permalink

There seems to be a combined version of both parts of 'You & I', which I'm eager to hear.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:31 (one year ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...
three weeks pass...

hey Brad Nelson, nice review of the Tango re-ish.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/22976-tango-in-the-night-deluxe-edition/

nomar, Monday, 13 March 2017 04:11 (one year ago) Permalink

"Big Love" FTW. What a weird song. I've heard five interviews with Lindsey where he can't even describe the damn thing. The Pitchfork description of it as austere and detached gets closer. This is a man way removed from real life and emotions trying to reconnect from his mansion. Usually that kind of thing probably results in total crud but here it's fascinating.

yesca, Monday, 13 March 2017 06:32 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't know if this has been linked elsewhere but I happened to watch it last night and it's amazing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBSWt0b4K8E

nate woolls, Monday, 13 March 2017 09:45 (one year ago) Permalink

OOOH
AH

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 March 2017 11:20 (one year ago) Permalink

That Pitchfork review was excellent

Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Monday, 13 March 2017 12:13 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah great stuff, Brad. beautiful writing

flopson, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:59 (one year ago) Permalink

also ty for this great trivia

She howls her way through “Seven Wonders,” a song written mostly by Sandy Stewart. (Nicks receives credit because she misheard “All the way down you held the line” as “All the way down to Emmiline”; for Nicks—and I don’t disagree—sometimes accident and authorship are indistinguishable.)

flopson, Monday, 13 March 2017 15:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Stevie mishears a lot of things. "Edge of Seventeen" exists because she misheard Tom Petty's wife say "age of seventeen."

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Monday, 13 March 2017 15:12 (one year ago) Permalink

lmao love u stevie

also thanks y'all

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Monday, 13 March 2017 15:25 (one year ago) Permalink

I love the idea that Nicks deserved a writing credit.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 March 2017 15:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Stevie mishears a lot of things. "Edge of Seventeen" exists because she misheard Tom Petty's wife say "age of seventeen."

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever),

cocaine in her ears iirc

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 March 2017 15:27 (one year ago) Permalink

cool stuff in the deluxe edition that got cut from the review

- the reconstituted "you and i" is awesome and had it ended tango it'd probably be my favorite fleetwood mac record even with the disintegrating stevie songs
- i've had the extended remixes for years but i still get really surprised when i hear a long lost stevie backing vocal woven into them, especially in "big love" and "family man" which i always thought of as (and which, afaik, are) solitary lindsey affairs

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Monday, 13 March 2017 17:04 (one year ago) Permalink

or the TELL ME LIES. WHOA. SWEET LITTLE LIES. OH NO NO YOU CAN'T DISGUISE that suddenly appears as a mixing decision in the "Little Lies" 12-inch.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 March 2017 17:05 (one year ago) Permalink

Reissue's not out until the end of the month, right? That's a pretty early review.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 March 2017 17:09 (one year ago) Permalink

I love the idea that Nicks deserved a writing credit.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, March 13, 2017 3:26 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's like something straight from the Mike Love school of earning writing credits.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 18:33 (one year ago) Permalink

/Then Play Long/ on the mysterious case of the disintegrating band: http://nobilliards.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/fleetwood-mac-tango-in-night.html🔗

Holy shit, the "WASSA MATTA BAY BEE" stuff is more ridiculous than I imagined. Good god.

That said, I don't think stuff that sounds like Nicks on "Little Lies" is Buckingham.

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 13 March 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink

The three are on "Little Lies" – that's the beauty of the chorus, where each gets a line (and the beauty of the 12" is exposing listeners to the rest of Nicks' vocal).

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 March 2017 18:55 (one year ago) Permalink

x-post:

I'd probably go as far as saying that it ranks as one of Nicks' worst ever vocal performances on record.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 18:56 (one year ago) Permalink

the christine/stevie/lindsey tradeoff in the chorus is the most they ever feel like a band on the record and it's also just really sharp arranging, it's the part of the song that's like burned into my memory forever xp

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Monday, 13 March 2017 18:59 (one year ago) Permalink

yep!

It's the Mac song I remember most as a kid, thanks to that nasal Nicks hook in the chorus.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 March 2017 19:02 (one year ago) Permalink

i heard it on the radio for years as a kid without ever identifying it as a fleetwood mac song. which persisted even after i became a fan; they didn't perform it the dance, which was my gateway

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Monday, 13 March 2017 19:05 (one year ago) Permalink

er, on the dance*

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Monday, 13 March 2017 19:05 (one year ago) Permalink

I used to wake up to the clock/radio every morning, and one of my formative memories is waking up to "Little Lies" one day. It was the sleepy-eyed equivalent of hearing something amazing and needing to pull the car over. 1987, so must have been middle school. Not sure when I even realized pre-'80s Fleetwood Mac existed, to be honest. What's weird is that I didn't buy the record until much, much later.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 March 2017 19:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Posted before I got here...Like all the singles, would have voted for "Mystified."

clemenza, Monday, 13 March 2017 19:47 (one year ago) Permalink

I had completely forgotten about "Big Love"

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Monday, 13 March 2017 19:48 (one year ago) Permalink

For me, I heard stuff like 'Albatross' and 'Oh Well' first and I pretty much thought of Fleetwood Mac as being something to be put in the same bracket as Cream or something. British blues rock. But then later I'd see videos for Fleetwood Mac songs from different eras on VH-1 and I'd think "huh, wut?" ... I'd see 'Albatross' one day, 'Big Love' the next, then something like 'Rhiannon' and it'd be a bit confusing. It wasn't until I saw the Rock Family Trees episode on Fleetwood Mac circa 1994-1995 or thereabouts that I became aware of how it all fit together, then the Classic Albums episode on Rumours. That was basically my gateway... then suddenly it was like: "huh, so that's where the intro music from the Formula One comes from..."

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 19:51 (one year ago) Permalink

In fact, before watching that Rock Family Trees, I'd assumed that the line-up that did 'Big Love' was a slightly different line-up to the one that did 'Rhiannon', because Lindsey Buckingham looked so different in the 'Big Love' video.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 19:55 (one year ago) Permalink

In two weeks it'll be the 30th anniversary of "Big Love" debuting on the Hot 100: https://weeklytop40.wordpress.com/1987-all-charts/

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 March 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

that Rock Family Tree doc is great for anyone who wants a nosey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYaE5qFpGQM

piscesx, Monday, 13 March 2017 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

"Mystified" is kinda killing me right now.

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 13 March 2017 22:19 (one year ago) Permalink

'Isn't It Midnight' is my jam on this these days.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 22:23 (one year ago) Permalink

TA-AN-GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 12:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Excellent review Brad

Edge of Seventeen anecdote is blowing my mind

blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 13:32 (one year ago) Permalink

It's hilarious that ten years later not a single poster has admitted to voting for "Welcome to the Room................Sara."

I will say this about it: as dire as the song is, it features Stevie's best performance on the record by a fair distance. The writing bears her trademark phrasing – and her singing is far more invested (and subsequently less manipulated by Lindsay). Which makes a certain amount of sense given that it's about the most relevant thing in her life at the time: drugs, rehab and isolation.

Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:37 (one year ago) Permalink

It's her only complete performance. She didn't write "Seven Wonders" and didn't finish "When I See You Again." She's there and not-there on this album in a way that astonishes me.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:50 (one year ago) Permalink

For me, it's never really mattered that Nicks contributed relatively little to this record, since McVie's and Buckingham's contributions are so potent.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 23:00 (one year ago) Permalink

(then again, Nicks always was my least favourite of the three songwriters)

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 23:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Mine as well, tho Stevie's best moments—"Sara," "Gypsy," "Dreams," "Storms"—are undoubtedly really good, even if I sometimes question how much of what I like about them is wedded their arrangements and production.

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:26 (one year ago) Permalink

I disagree. Her songs are often the weakest but no way in hell would I want a Fleetwood Mac without her. She's peculiar: one of the few singer-songwriters who is both the most conventional, kitschiest member (Eagles fetish, New Age crap) and the weirdest vision.

otoh Buckingham is often a better arranger and producer and singer than songwriter; often his songs are about nothing and aren't anything except their arrangements. He's at best coaxing and shaping great songs out of McVie and Nicks.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:31 (one year ago) Permalink

*and HAS the weirdest vision

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:32 (one year ago) Permalink

i mean i disagree too but that's bc her mac-oriented songs are all knockouts until mirage, which has "gypsy" anyway

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:37 (one year ago) Permalink

I agree that Buckingham works wonders on McVie's and Nicks' material, it's partly the reason why McVie's tracks sound so utterly magnificent on Tango, and partly the reason why Nicks was able to get away with phoning it in.

I can't wait to hear what the Buckingham-McVie record sounds like, although I still see no reason why it shouldn't be put out as a Fleetwood Mac record.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:38 (one year ago) Permalink

stevie's songs can be really digressive but it's a good counterpoint to the precision of buckingham and mcvie, she gets adventurous in a way they do not

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:38 (one year ago) Permalink

With maybe one exception, her songs on Say You Will are her best on a Mac record since Tusk.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:38 (one year ago) Permalink

I can't wait to hear what the Buckingham-McVie record sounds like, although I still see no reason why it shouldn't be put out as a Fleetwood Mac record.

― Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Tuesday, March 14, 2017

I bet Nicks and her lawyers rewrote her contract so that Fleetwood Mac isn't "Fleetwood Mac" without her. She's the star.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:39 (one year ago) Permalink

With maybe one exception, her songs on Say You Will are her best on a Mac record since Tusk.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 5:38 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed. (what's the exception? "illume" is p dull imo)

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Yep. Classic Nicks example of wandering in search of a melody.

otoh "Running Through the Garden"! "Goodbye Baby"! The title track! "Thrown Down"!

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:45 (one year ago) Permalink

Mine as well, tho Stevie's best moments—"Sara," "Gypsy," "Dreams," "Storms"—are undoubtedly really good, even if I sometimes question how much of what I like about them is wedded their arrangements and production.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:26 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, the best of Stevie's stuff really is genuinely great - 'Sara' for me being the pinnacle of her songwriting for Fleetwood Mac, and I really love 'Sisters of the Moon' and 'Gold Dust Woman' ... I'd still rank her as my third favourite songwriter in this incarnation of Fleetwood Mac, vastly preferring McVie's well crafted pop and Buckingham's stuff like 'That's All For Everyone', 'Go Your Own Way', 'What Makes You Think You're The One', his tracks on Tango...

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:46 (one year ago) Permalink

On the Enchanted box set she includes a couple of demos of her best '90s songs ("Sweet Girl," "Twisted"), on which she and another guitarist (Jesse Vanenzuela on one!) play all the instruments and guess what -- the chord changes and melodies are all hers and survived intact. It's possible she was a better recordmaker by the '90s, but I'm reluctant to give Buck the lion's share of the credit for making her listenable; there's a faint whiff of misogyny.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:49 (one year ago) Permalink

stevie's songs can be really digressive but it's a good counterpoint to the precision of buckingham and mcvie, she gets adventurous in a way they do not

― the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:38 AM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Adventurous like on the stock '70s California soft rock of 'Angel' or adventurous like on the stock '70s California soft rock of 'I Don't Wanna Know' ... or adventurous like the meandering, take-your-time-getting-somewhere '70s California soft rock of 'Storms' or 'Beautiful Child'? The latter two which neither have the pop hooks of McVie's material or are as interesting as Buckingham's material?

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:52 (one year ago) Permalink

"I Don't Wanna Know" is as precise as any McVie!

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:53 (one year ago) Permalink

agreed with alfred on the faint whiff of misogyny

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:54 (one year ago) Permalink

"Storms" doesn't sound like Nicolette Larson, Carly Simon, Kenny Loggins, or however you define California soft rock.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:55 (one year ago) Permalink

and I haven't even mentioned the half dozen great solo songs on which Buckingham is nowhere near

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:56 (one year ago) Permalink

we could also talk about "silver springs" which has like two choruses and sounds enormous in a way that basically no other rumours track does

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:57 (one year ago) Permalink

I think Stevie is just one of those songwriters who does her best work bouncing off someone else. There's nothing wrong with that. She's not a typical singer-songwriter, more like Madonna.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:59 (one year ago) Permalink

"beautiful child" wanders and builds itself up block by block as much as "sara" and every time she sings "i am not a child anymore" it sounds like years have passed

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:59 (one year ago) Permalink

^^^ yes. And her timbre changes!

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:00 (one year ago) Permalink

I can't believe we're re-litigating Nicks' contributions. I got no problem with someone ranking her last among the three, but to call her flaws worse than McVie's homilies or Buckingham's formalist vacuity misses the point of a band complementing its members' strengths.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:04 (one year ago) Permalink

0s, but I'm reluctant to give Buck the lion's share of the credit for making her listenable; there's a faint whiff of misogyny.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:49 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm not reluctant in the least - it's a well known fact that Buckingham did a great deal of arranging and production on the others songs - just check the album credits, or even accounts from the band members themselves. A chord progression and a melody is one thing, but a great arrangement and production can give life to something that can be unremarkable at its core.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Sure, but that's no more the case with McVie or Buckingham's songs. She's not a lesser songwriter b/c her songs needed the glittering arrangements as much as her colleague did.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:10 (one year ago) Permalink

alfred relentless otm

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:11 (one year ago) Permalink

relentlessly*

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:12 (one year ago) Permalink

pretend i linked to another fleetwood mac thread where ppl marveled over her piano demo for "gypsy". her songs are not just arrangements

(i make the argument that "seven wonders" is but it's not her song!)

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:18 (one year ago) Permalink

No, she's a lesser songwriter, at least in my opinion, because neither do I think she's as great at the pop hooks at McVie is, but nor do I find her material as interesting as Buckingham's. Like I've said, the best of her material is truly great, but when it comes down to it the majority of my Fleetwood Mac highlights come from the others.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:19 (one year ago) Permalink

(and I'm about as interested in Nicks' solo stuff about as much as a cow is interested in becoming a burger)

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:20 (one year ago) Permalink

you're crazy, belladonna is almost perfect

a but (brimstead), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Diehard Mac fans have seen the clip from the SYW making-of documentary in which Buckingham at his most passive aggressive and smug explains why it's bad that she changes verb tenses in a song. Nicks, annoyed, replies, "Would you tell Bob Dylan his verb tenses are wrong?"

My larger point is that Nicks, like Dylan, is not an instrumentalist: she uses a piano or guitar as tools instead of weapons that need mastering. If you like her less than McVie or Buckingham as personage and songwriter, I get it and I won't argue...but she's not a lesser songwriter b/c she can't play piano as well as McVie or guitar as well as Buck.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:22 (one year ago) Permalink

idk i'm finding turrican's argument that nicks is a lesser songwriter just bc she is neither christine mcvie or lindsey buckingham super convincing

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:23 (one year ago) Permalink

(and I'm about as interested in Nicks' solo stuff about as much as a cow is interested in becoming a burger)

― Coolio Iglesias (Turrican),

I'm not sure this is the appropriate metaphor to use for a woman whom male critics have called, for example, a mooncalf.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:24 (one year ago) Permalink

she can also write circles around the two of them lyrically

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Has anyone heard the whole of McVie's 1984 solo album? "Got a Hold on Me" is certainly great. Bucky plays guitar on that one, but who is Todd Sharp, the other guitarist/writer? This sounds like Tom Petty, or maybe Bryan Adams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb5mjCHNKLs

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:25 (one year ago) Permalink

The album's a tuneful bore. I do love a track called "The Smile I Live For."

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:26 (one year ago) Permalink

I remember a time on ILX when McVie got the flak as the Dull One.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:26 (one year ago) Permalink

idk, also, what a great melodic detour the bridge of "gypsy" is

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:29 (one year ago) Permalink

There's nothing wrong with not being a technically great instrumentalist, plenty of great songs have been written by people that are not particularly great instrumentalists. But that's not what we're talking about - we're talking about songwriting, and I find Nicks' songs don't hit my pleasure centre in the way the others songs do, for reasons I've already stated.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:30 (one year ago) Permalink

tbh the Mac could've prevented an ILM meltdown by crediting every member like they smartly did on "The Chain."

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:30 (one year ago) Permalink

"gypsy" even has that great mini-hook, "lightning strikes / maybe once, maybe twice"

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:31 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm not sure this is the appropriate metaphor to use for a woman whom male critics have called, for example, a mooncalf.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:24 AM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm perfectly sure you're reading something into it which isn't even there. A bit like Tipper Gore reading Twisted Sister lyrics.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:35 (one year ago) Permalink

you're crazy, belladonna is almost perfect

― a but (brimstead), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:20 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:38 (one year ago) Permalink

A bit like Tipper Gore reading Twisted Sister lyrics.

Or the lyrics to "Sit on My Face, Stevie Nicks" for that matter.

Hideous Lump, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 03:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Man am I sorry I started this...

First off, Christine's songs are often every bit as transformed by or reliant on Lindsey's production and arrangements as Stevie's. For instance, "Hold Me" has a lovely verse but almost no chorus whatsoever in its demo form. In the final version, it has a layered vocal part that I didn't even realize was saying "hold me" until a number of years ago (I grew up hearing it as "I wanna ... I wanna ... I wanna ... Fee-eel"). Does that make her less of a songwriter? Not really. It makes him an amazing arranger tho.

Stevie, as Alfred points out, is more of a weirdo – which is a good thing and bad. The good is, candidly, that it makes her more distinctive – she's *not* Nicolette Larson. And really, how many other famous singer songwriters from that era were true oddballs? And how many were women? There's something brave there that I admire.

The thing is, I don't really like it that much. In the main, I find her whole aesthetic—the witch schtick, the dancing, the croaky voice and intense self-involvement—to be off putting. And the problem is, it invades almost everything she does. On her best songs, I don't mind it – but I usually have to overlook it. Only in the case of "Gypsy" and maybe a handful of others do I think her essential Stevie-ness actually adds to the song.

This is all most irrelevant to Tango as she pretty much phoned in her songs, performances and persona. But whether it's the guitar whining against McVie's rumbling bass in "Dreams" or the guitar and Rhodes pirouetting behind the vocal in "Storms," the main reason I find what the band does with her songs essential to their success is that they keep me from mainlining Stevie, which I'm not sure I could otherwise handle. For very long anyway.

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 06:05 (one year ago) Permalink

I conceive of Buckingham-Nicks era FM as a tightly clustered venn diagram of hooks / arrangement / aura, which then maps onto the special skill of each of the 3 lead performers (though, crucially, Nicks' songs still have hooks, McVie's songs still project an aura, etc.)

Obviously, Nicks' work projects the strongest aura of the 3: songs like "Sara" and "Beautiful Child" and "Silver Spring" and "Gypsy" project a sense of autobiographical depth that may well go beyond what was intended or is really there; at their best these songs feel like they mean more than other songs, every line pregnant with resonance (both lyrically and in their performance) (this is one reason why Nicks is in some ways at least as good a point of comparison for Tori Amos as Kate Bush - Amos inherited Nicks' capacity for meaningful/resonant opacity).

Turrican's critique of Nicks relies on being unable, or refusing, to see that quality (this is not a criticism of Turrican really - there's a lot of qualities other people see in music that I won't or can't), or to see it as valuable. I think this undersells Nicks, but I also think it undersells Buckingham and McVie, who at their best also reach towards that auratic quality, just as McVie and Nicks benefit from Buckingham's arrangement smarts and Nicks and Buckingham frequently rival McVie for pop cut-through. The band in this era had a mutually reinforcing three-legged stool structure; reducing it to two legs makes the whole thing fall down in my opinion.

Tim F, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 07:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Yep. Classic Nicks example of wandering in search of a melody.

otoh "Running Through the Garden"! "Goodbye Baby"! The title track! "Thrown Down"!

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:45 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't mind "Illume" and think "Silver Girl" is the Nicks dud on this album. But "Destiny Rules" and "Everybody Finds Out" and "Smile At You" are awesome as well.

I guess I love almost everything on that album.

Tim F, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 07:18 (one year ago) Permalink

that's a great post tim, v otm

niels, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 08:29 (one year ago) Permalink

a guy once convinced me Lindsey deserved more or less all credit for Stevie's songs, and so I was really shocked when I heard those demos which make it clear she's a fantastic songwriter

she def has the best solo material

niels, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 08:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Tim F OTM

Carlotta's Portrait (Ross), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 08:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Obviously, it's a great thing that the band had multiple songwriters at their disposal and I feel they worked on each others material really well - as a great band should do anyway - and I think that people are overlooking the fact that I said earlier that Nicks provided some great material. She's still my least favourite of the songwriters, though, and for all Nicks' highlights I'll bet you I don't miss her presence on the forthcoming Buckingham-McVie record, whereas I sure as hell missed McVie on Say You Will, which would have made for a great Buckingham solo record.

I guess now I know who on here is likely to overreact if one dares to state that Nicks is their least favourite element of Fleetwood Mac.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 11:56 (one year ago) Permalink

what courage!

You're overlooking my writing that I don't care if you like her least; I disagreed with the suggestion that she needed more help than McVie or Buckingham.

Buckingham isn't capable of great solo albums. None of them are. He's released several good albums with several fine tracks.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 12:06 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost: As others have pointed out, thinking Nicks is third best is fine - pretty common in fact - but your justifications for that sit uncomfortably with me because they (perhaps inadvertently) appear to reduce the band's qualities to a two dimensional axis of pop smarts and arrangement invention, which I think as a schematic will fail to properly capture the magic of even the non-Nicks songs of that era.

Tim F, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 12:08 (one year ago) Permalink

I didn't mean my sarcasm, Turrican. Think of it as friendly ribbing.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 12:16 (one year ago) Permalink

It's also common for listeners to recoil, as Naive Teen Idol remarked, from Nicks' dancing, voice, and witchiness but not so common to show impatience with Buckingham or McVie: producer geniuses and workaday musician, respectively, are more traditional signs of artistic integrity than the woman who risks looking like a fool on stage every night.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 12:19 (one year ago) Permalink

*musicians

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 12:19 (one year ago) Permalink

tim otm

there's a union of performance and songwriting in stevie's songs which can make her more unfinished work (e.g. the songs on tango) feel like improvisations, but this is what enhances her great songs; there's this grand narrative drift to them. they can work like paragraphs or prose-poems, where as mcvie's and buckingham's songs tend to operate within more formal restrictions (there are of course exceptions, as each songwriter's approach crept into the others'). it's not a "better" or "worse" theory of songwriting; it enriches the others as a counterpoint while also being its own captivating swirl. this is why in isolation, on their solo records, they can and often do feel imbalanced. (lol i'm wondering if i'm just repeating tim's point)

"silver girl" was the other nicks song i thought didn't really work on say you will but everything else is really wonderful. there's an imbalance to that record too but it's one i find interesting—another buckingham solo record reengineered as a fleetwood mac record, but stevie was also on a kind of a roll imo between her tracks on that record and the good songs on trouble in shangri-la, and on stuff like "thrown down" they access the aura of the trio even in mcvie's absence

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 12:20 (one year ago) Permalink

if you're repeating my point you're certainly expressing it better.

And I think that's right about Say You Will - against the odds the album frequently implies McVie's presence even though she's not there.

It will be very interesting (and of course welcome, fantastic, etc.) if the Buckingham-McVie record does the same vis a vis Nicks.

Tim F, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 12:34 (one year ago) Permalink

btw "nicks wrote some good songs but i'd rather be hamburger meat than listen to her solo work" is the purest driven nonsense

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 13:05 (one year ago) Permalink

mooncalf meat

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 13:16 (one year ago) Permalink

I'd say that not checking out Nicks' solo material or being remotely interested in hearing it based on the fact that she's the element of Fleetwood Mac I'm least interested in makes absolute sense.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 13:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Guys, not sure why you are circling the wagons here. It's no crime to be put off by Stevie. It doesn't mean you're a misogynist. It doesn't mean that she doesn't add something essential to the Fleetwood Mac venn diagram. And it doesn't mean her lyrics aren't more personally involving than Lindsey or Christine's. The elaborate cultural critiques of how people listen to music and how they "refuse" to hear what makes her great seem wholly unnecessary.

Stevie isn't for everyone. For many, her bleat needs sweetening. For my part, I like her best in small doses. And while I think Say You Will to be her most consistent set of songs, I find that I miss McVie more on that record than I do Stevie on Tango In the Night.

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 13:33 (one year ago) Permalink

as alfred and tim already said i don't take issue with considering nicks the least of the three fleetwood mac songwriters but i take issue with the methods by which ppl itt have arrived at that conclusion, e.g. describing nicks' songs reductively as "stock '70s california soft rock," a description that mcvie's and buckingham's songs don't necessarily escape and which is at least partially a consequence of buckingham's production

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:12 (one year ago) Permalink

and Nicks' best solo songs ("Stand Back," "I Can't Wait," "Edge of Seventeen," "Rooms on Fire," a couple others) don't sound like California soft rock either.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:20 (one year ago) Permalink

as alfred and tim already said i don't take issue with considering nicks the least of the three fleetwood mac songwriters but i take issue with the methods by which ppl itt have arrived at that conclusion, e.g. describing nicks' songs reductively as "stock '70s california soft rock"

No, not all of her songs, just those songs that I applied the description to, which should have been blatantly obvious simply by reading the post.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Some serious over-reacting by the Stevie Nicks fanclub itt.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:32 (one year ago) Permalink

I think we can all agree that FM minus Bucky is pretty bad, and that since his addition in 1975 or whenever he has been pretty essential to its existence and operation.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:37 (one year ago) Permalink

They all are. Every one. Including the rhythm section, which we haven't mentioned.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Yes, what I meant is that on at least two, possibly three occasions, the band would not have released an album at all without Buckingham's intense participation.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:40 (one year ago) Permalink

That is, Tusk, Tango and Say You Will you're all bolstered by ready to go Buckingham solo tracks. The rhythm section absolutely makes everybody better, which is why they show up on a couple of those solo tracks, including cuts like Trouble.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Sorry for the messy voice to text, I hope any that makes any sense.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 14:42 (one year ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

I take a crack at it. Thanks, thread!

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 March 2017 01:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Whenever I sing the chorus of 'Little Lies', I always pinch my nose to do Stevie's bit.

The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Friday, 31 March 2017 01:55 (one year ago) Permalink

nine months pass...

i got the reissue not that long ago so i've been listening to it a lot. it's funny to read the diverse reactions to welcome to the room....sara over the years. i didn't know it at all but it grabbed me right away--it's awkward and weird and tossed off but it has *something,* maybe in the big open chorus vocal and the way the backing vox come in, that i really like.

other big takeaway was john mcvie's playing on "little lies," a song i knew well but had never really dug into. i might think it's his best work in classic mac, which is saying something. he's the driving force in that song.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 02:57 (nine months ago) Permalink

it's a perfect Christine McVie song too

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 15:03 (nine months ago) Permalink

I think "Everywhere" is more perfect, but "Little Lies" is more ... mysterious?

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 16:01 (nine months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Sad seven wonders got no votes but this is a hard poll. Probably everywhere

kolakube (Ross), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:44 (seven months ago) Permalink

T-ANN-GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:47 (seven months ago) Permalink

Alfred, do you still feel Honey, Hi is a dud??

kolakube (Ross), Thursday, 8 March 2018 03:21 (seven months ago) Permalink

Yes -- an innocuous one.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 March 2018 03:21 (seven months ago) Permalink

Alternative Tango coming for RSD

papa don't take no meth (stevie), Thursday, 8 March 2018 10:33 (seven months ago) Permalink

four months pass...

Stevie's interjections in the "Little Lies" extended remix are A+

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 01:43 (two months ago) Permalink

This seems as a good as a place as any to air my suspicions (maybe this is common knowledge?) that the Lindsey-sung tracks on Tango (and Tusk) are pretty much all Lindsey, playing or programming everything, with a few exceptions and cameos.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 02:06 (two months ago) Permalink

I assumed so from the beginning, "Caroline" and the title track in particular.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 02:46 (two months ago) Permalink

not so much on Tusk.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 02:47 (two months ago) Permalink

Pretty sure "Big Love" is just him, too. And "Family Man." Basically anything featuring his pitch-altered/sampled vocals. With "Tusk" it's a little more obvious which tracks are just him banging around in the bathroom. Though of course stuff like the title track and "What Makes You Think You're the One" and "Walk a Thin Line" feature at least Mick banging away as well.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 02:57 (two months ago) Permalink

I saw something about having Mick replace the drums on "Big Love" with a copycat performance.

Ubering With The King (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 2 August 2018 03:21 (two months ago) Permalink

didn't he have Mick and John rerecord all the drum and bass tracks?

niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 06:15 (two months ago) Permalink

He might have. Mick and John pop up on his solo albums as well. There are so many drum overdubs on "Big Love," specifically - those kind of marching fills at the end, cymbal washes, little fills - that it makes sense some of that is Mick (who iirc at the time of "Tango" was totally zonked out and living in a trailer in Lindsey's yard). Most of it sounds like programming or something Lindsey could do, but Mick can be such a smooth drummer maybe it is him. Not even sure I've ever even noticed a bass on "Big Love!" Or keys. Has the band ever played it live as a band?

There are definitely a few complete Lindsey solo tracks that got ported over directly to "Say You Will" with either Mick and John on the original track or sort of dubbed on later.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:40 (two months ago) Permalink

They do 'Big Love' all the time but as Lindsey's Acoustic Moment.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:50 (two months ago) Permalink

But never as a full band, right?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:54 (two months ago) Permalink

Playing Big Love as a full band would just obfuscate the insane skill level required to play that guitar part and then manage to sing on top of it.

The version on Tango In The Night was such a missed opportunity. If he had recorded it in the mode of "Never Going Back Again", it would have been a classic. But it was 1987, not 1977, so instead we got the porn backing vocals and the miami vice production.

enochroot, Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:56 (two months ago) Permalink

the og big love is great, how can you float "miami vice production" as a criticism and listen to the rest of the album

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:58 (two months ago) Permalink

i'd like to suggest instead that it's lindsey's horny version of "running up that hill"

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:59 (two months ago) Permalink

fair point, i suppose i do have the same issue with the rest of the album.

big love just feels different because of the missed opportunity. i remember when that song came out, and I just didn't connect with it all -- the "ugh/ahh" part at the end was really the defining element of the song. then several decades later, i heard a version of lindsay performing it solo, and it was stunning. i really couldn't believe it was the same song. or rather couldn't believe that the song he was playing was buried somewhere in the album version.

enochroot, Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:07 (two months ago) Permalink

"running up that hill" is already v v horny
xp

21st savagery fox (m bison), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:21 (two months ago) Permalink

but "big love" is def kate bushy and why i think it is dope af

21st savagery fox (m bison), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:21 (two months ago) Permalink

can we ban "Miami Vice production" as criticism and phrase?

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:43 (two months ago) Permalink

i'd like to suggest instead that it's lindsey's horny version of "running up that hill"

― princess of hell (BradNelson),

I'd long thought "Caroline" was but otm

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:44 (two months ago) Permalink

can we ban "Miami Vice production" as criticism and phrase?

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, August 2, 2018 12:43 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no, if anything it should be projected on the walls of every recording studio as a deterrent

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:58 (two months ago) Permalink

feel free to substitute "VHS cover meme"

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:58 (two months ago) Permalink

alfred, thanks for the tip on little lies extended mix - have to hear that

sleepy sweet (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:04 (two months ago) Permalink

The term "Miami Vice production" as a catch-all name for mid-to-late '80s production trends is useless, anyway.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:06 (two months ago) Permalink

Miami Vice used Bryan Ferry and Andy Taylor in its soundtracks: two distinct hair visions for the eighties.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:07 (two months ago) Permalink

I mean sure, you can tell that Tango in the Night, No Jacket Required, Born in the U.S.A. and Songs from the Big Chair all came out in the same decade, but the productions are still different from one another.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:09 (two months ago) Permalink

Also, I can't believe we're in 2018 and we're still seeing '80s records being criticised for sounding like records that were made in the '80s.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:11 (two months ago) Permalink

I was thinking more of modern-day records that strive to sound dated

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:23 (two months ago) Permalink

Yet it's perfectly acceptable for Guided by Voices to record on 4-tracks and The White Stripes to record on old analogue equipment?

"Dated" isn't a pejorative, btw.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:08 (two months ago) Permalink

it is a sound I find highly unpleasant to listen to, how's that

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:11 (two months ago) Permalink

That's better!

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:12 (two months ago) Permalink

Framing "Big Love" as a missed opportunity presupposes that the live version had some notional existence at the time the original was composed - is there any evidence of that? I agree that Buckingham's live version is spellbinding, when I saw them live a few years ago it was the one moment of the show that gave me a chill even though I knew what was coming. But I've always assumed it was something that Buckingham developed after the fact. I'm just happy both versions of the song exist.

Tim F, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:10 (two months ago) Permalink

I don't think the studio version of 'Big Love' was a missed opportunity at all. The live version is indeed great, but the studio version still holds up.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:14 (two months ago) Permalink

Obviously the other thing about Tango is that it's a front to back production masterpiece that feels totally one of a kind and cohesive* so the idea of wanting to swap out some of its rococo excesses and make it less "Miami Vice" feels like a violence to me. If ever there was a record where "sounding like Miami Vice" was elevated to the level of vital ontology it was this one.

*except where Stevie's songs fall over.

Tim F, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:18 (two months ago) Permalink

in time this has become my favourite mac record

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:19 (two months ago) Permalink

er next time to mirage

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:19 (two months ago) Permalink

Another issue that I have with this whole "sounding like Miami Vice" bullshit is that Tango in the Night doesn't sound like Miami Vice at all.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:24 (two months ago) Permalink

otm

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:25 (two months ago) Permalink

Tim F OTM about the quality of the production on this record, though - although I don't think the production is overstuffed or even excessive. I can think of far, far, far worse examples of heavy handed '80s production.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:27 (two months ago) Permalink

Seriously, this isn't even that "80s."

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:29 (two months ago) Permalink

Are there even snares that go "poosh?"

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:29 (two months ago) Permalink

The snare sounds are quite tasteful across most of the record, thinking about it - I can't think of any moments where cavernous reverb is applied or any excessive gated reverbs.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:33 (two months ago) Permalink

I guess Isn't It Midnight is pretty 80s, right down to the tempo.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:34 (two months ago) Permalink

The production on this record is '80s, though - it couldn't possibly be placed in any other decade - it just uses the trends of the time tastefully instead of in an OTT way like others did.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:38 (two months ago) Permalink

agreed. this record sounds super nice, not to simplify it - but yeah

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:38 (two months ago) Permalink

It's basically the 80s way of making a record sound 70s dry, when most 80s signifiers lean hard on the studio mush.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:41 (two months ago) Permalink

"isn't it midnight" is like "what if the heart s/t were tasteful," a great question with a great answer

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:43 (two months ago) Permalink

I dunno, the pristine digital quality of the overall sound and the programmed, layered nature of the production and the keyboard sounds used and the precise, automated nature of the mixes place this square in '80s territory for me, even without the massive reverbs. It has more in common with Brothers in Arms than it does No Jacket Required.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:47 (two months ago) Permalink

As for the drumming on 'Big Love', my guess is the same as Josh's in that I think it's actually a combination of programming and overdubbed drum parts. My guess is that Buckingham laid down a basic drum machine part as a guide (to get the timing tight) and built the track up from that, and then got Mick to overdub toms, "real" snare fills, cymbal washes etc. It's possible that the guide track was replaced eventually, but it doesn't sound like it.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:00 (two months ago) Permalink

If anything that's another intriguing data point in favor of the production: it's hard to tell what is programmed and what is Mick fuckin' Fleetwood.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:32 (two months ago) Permalink

Big Love is all about the Balearic masterpiece of a remix by Arthur baker imo

i know kore-eda (or something), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:34 (two months ago) Permalink

*except where Stevie's songs fall over.

uh whassamatta. baby.

Arthur Funzonerelli (stevie), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:42 (two months ago) Permalink

That alt Mystified is pretty awesome and weird, though there's a single recurring drum sound in it that I'm finding crazily distracting.

Arthur Funzonerelli (stevie), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:42 (two months ago) Permalink

Framing "Big Love" as a missed opportunity presupposes that the live version had some notional existence at the time the original was composed - is there any evidence of that?

In this interview he talks about Big Love being about "the potential of a single guitar doing the work of a whole track", so that tells me he might have written it that way first, then added all the other elements later in the process

https://youtu.be/iBSWt0b4K8E?t=71

enochroot, Friday, 3 August 2018 01:45 (two months ago) Permalink

and the dream says I WANT YOU
and the dream is gone

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 August 2018 02:06 (two months ago) Permalink

I never ever ever got burned out on 80s production styles/techniques. 90s and 00s, almost immediately.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 3 August 2018 02:21 (two months ago) Permalink

If anything, my appreciation for the technical skill of '80s production has only increased with time. There were a lot of legitimately stunning production achievements in the '80s. Of course, there are many examples of the trends of the time done badly, but that exists in every decade.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, 3 August 2018 06:24 (two months ago) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.