steve hoffman forums, C or D?

It IS alarming, isn't it? I stumbled onto those forums when looking for more detailed information about James Brown's jumbled back catalog (there are some stellar threads on there regarding this) but I can't read it regularly or I'll be forced to either 1) dump a ton of stuff and wait for a reissue or 2) buy reissues of things that sound fine to me. I choose to do neither by not frequenting that forum much!

It's like going to some of the hi-end audio equipment forums, it'll make you feel like crap for daring to stray from original Edison cylinders. Or tube amps. Or separates. Etc.

Useful but a lot of posts to wade through and very heavily classic-rock biased. And it is the 99+ percentile of 'persnickety audiophiles', so keep that in mind as you read -- those of us mortals with standard-issue audio gear probably won't be able to tell the difference between remaster A and remaster B.

West German pressings? Dud

I still kind of like that forum but man are they quick to remove posts that question the integrity of the host. Apparently several years ago he auctioned off CDRs of masters he did of All Things Must Pass among other things; those are all over the internet these days. I've asked about this once or twice and my questions vanish within seconds. Hunting around on the internet turned up more info about it.

Maybe C for the occasional educational discussion about different editions, but ultimately a D for the thin skinned moderating crew. That ultimately taints most of the major debates because posters aren't allowed to criticize anything Hoffman was involved in - and he has a sizeable discography that includes some of the most sought-after and expensive pressings out there.

that said I really do like the masters of things he has done, particularly the mccartney albums.

http://www.themortonreport.com/2013/05/23/Steve%20Hoffman%20A.jpg

that picture is very...
ago

I've decided to live my life without lanyards.

Keith Jarrett's moaning is annoying. (IMHO)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Brian Cruz, Mar 14, 2005.

Keith Jarrett - Vocalizations, annoying or just part of his genius?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by billybob79, Aug 10, 2010.

Keith Jarrett - Vocalization, good or bad?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mds, Apr 3, 2015.

http://i.imgur.com/xpS3kt0.png

crosspost to audiophile snake oil thread
http://www.shakti-innovations.com/images/Hoffman-pic-1.jpg
RENOWNED MASTERING ENGINEER STEVE HOFFMAN ENDORSING THE HALLOGRAPH AT CES 2003
http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm

Bands enjoyed by smart people

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Andersoncouncil, Yesterday at 10:35 PM.

The Rush thread got me thinking...There are certain bands that appeal to more educated, smart audiences. Rush is certainly one of them, but I'd also like to throw out a "dark horse" band. People seem to think of the Grateful Dead as a band liked by head in the cloud stoners, but in reality their fanbase I have come across is very intelligent. Most deadheads I have met have masters degrees and high-paying jobs. I work in academis, and know many haeds and former deadheads in high positions.Maybe they spent many years on the bus following them, but the great irony is that they seem to have done well for themselves. Feel free to discuss this point or ad any other bands for the intelligentsia.

Oh, for fucks sake...

My favorite thing about those forums, and I have many favorite things, is that sometimes people put their names in their signatures, then sign their posts in addition to that. Those particular forums automatically "sign" the poster's name to his/her posts right beside the timestamp. So along with the name in their actual avatar, there's the possibility of seeing a poster's name four times with every post. Like those bands with eponymous albums who also have eponymous songs on those albums. But +1.

Or like I just used the word "post" or "poster" five times.

For Hoffman haters. . .

http://stereocentral.tv/phpbb/index.php

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/please-try-and-refrain-from-commenting-on-sound-quality-unless-you-have-your-gear-listed-in-profile.489114/

http://i.imgur.com/IwSlwTq.jpg

The two posts above by two new members shouldn't really be acceptable here. I've picked them at random but this is epidemic here at the SH Forums. I thought I better post this reminder about filling out your equipment profile.

We don't know what you are listening on unless you list your gear under "information" in your profile. Why does this matter? This is why. Something sounds "freakin' fantastic" and I'm going to listen to you and trust you and spend 40 bucks on it? I just have your word for it. What are you listening on? Unless I know that, how can I possibly judge if what you are saying holds any kind of water at all? A gear list doesn't solve it all (you could have a $100,000.00 system and be deaf as a post) but it's not fair to others when one comments on sound quality without giving us a clue as to what the music is being played on.

Please fill out your gear profiles or resist reviewing sound quality here. I don't care what kind of stereo you have, how much it costs, doesn't matter to me. I had a midprice system for years that I loved but if I'm listening on that to tell you what sounds fantastic or not, you have a right to know this and make allowances because my midprice system isn't telling me the full truth about sound quality so I can't tell you the truth about it.

Our readers here deserve to have this at our disposal and take it into account if your review is going to make pronouncements on sound quality. We need to take this important information into consideration.

There are about 30-40 members here who's ears I trust. Some of them have great systems but not all: At least half of them have stereo systems consisting of 1975 college dorm room level or even lower but I still trust their sound reviews. That being said, until you get to know if a person has your taste in sound quality, gear profiles are all we have to go on. The first step only, but it's an important one.

Thanks.

Not a rule, just a request. But if the moderators catch anything like the above posts, they will remove them at their discretion.

Now let the bitchfest begin.

C'mon guys, get 'em out and slap 'em on the table.

this website makes me want to record on and listen to all recorded music on a 20 year old microcassette recorder with a built-in speaker that clips easily

I'm totally cool with that post, put up or shut up if you're gonna run with the big dogs at the hoff'

T-shirt idea: Big Dog with sunglasses giving a thumbs up while smirking, caption "The only MacIntosh I use is my tube amp"

Also possibly the dog has a guitar

And one hand with a repetitive stress injury

arm, paw, whatever. Bad joke.

Naw that's perfect. And the dog's shirt says OLD DOGS RULE

spelling is different

Best part of that thread is the "positive" follow ups from the Hoff making him look even more of a prick

Thread appears to have been deleted. Been spending a bunch of time on the Hoff forums recently & have been largely enjoying it - sometimes genuinely & sometimes in a "lookit the audiophile loonies" kinda way. They have pointed me to a nice reissue of Muswell Hillbillies (which I otherwise woulda ignored as I - ignorantly, I guess - tend to assume anything associated with Record Store Day is cash-grab crapola). But I gotta also check the tendencies; was listening to some stuff my daughter likes & found myself thinking "the engineering on this is terrible!" to which my sensible side said "if your dad had commented on the engineering on a Hüsker Dü record, wouldn't he have been missing the point just like you are now?" So.

above link still works for me

Maybe they made it members-only? I strictly lurk there. I do remember seeing that thread a while back, tho.

Oh yeah I think I have to be signed in to view it.

It seems audiocrazy at a glance, but there totally is a point; it's a forum about sound quality and sound quality definitely varies with equipment, so yeah, I'm with brimstead. Run with the big dogs, waggle your gear about.

But I've also often wondered about a similar approach for mainstream record reviews: sure, over time you can get to 'know' a reviewer's tastes and character to an extent by reading their reviews, but I've rarely, if ever, seen anyone talk in a record review about how they use a record, when they play it, what it's for, at least outside of specialist reviews of dance music. Which would be OK if we were judging / evaluating (and buying / using) music on a purely abstracted, aesthetic level, but we're not; we're fitting music into our lives, using it for all sorts of different purposes.

I'm totally cool with that post, put up or shut up if you're gonna run with the big dogs at the hoff'

― lute bro (brimstead), Thursday, 31 December 2015 22:04 (1 week ago) Permalink

so good

it's a ridiculous board but it is helpful especially when sorting through all the vinyl reissues these days some of which are expensive and not that great, so when you hear universal praise there for, say the Dylan Mono vinyl box that does actually mean something to me...though man I though the Beatles vinyl reissues were gonna tear that place apart, I still don't know what to think.

Sound quality totally isn't an issue for me. I long ago mothballed my vinyl, CDs, turntable and CD player. The only way I listen to music now is v0 mp3s on an iPod through £100 headphones, and it all sounds great to me. My enjoyment of music is unaffected by sub-optimal sound quality.

can't run w/the big dogs
get off the porch

It's a worthwhile resource for information about vinyl (or CD) pressing quality. I often find myself googling "steve hoffman + [X reissue]" when browsing stuff online or at the local record. shop. It is what it is and nothing else. Some of the language around how records sound is completely hilarious and over the top though, no doubt about that.

there's a better video than this, but it's well hidden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnAgxUFKaxM

Looks like someone's touched a nerve over at the retirement home...

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/an-oldies-forum.665037/

http://kingdom.golf/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Huey-Lewis11-1600x1000.jpg
The old boy may be barely breathing

this post p much sums it up

Music had a serious impact back in the day, it meant something to people and to the world!

Songs Like ...
Everyday people
Imagine
Say It Loud I'm Black And I'm Proud
What's Going On
Ball Of Confusion

These are just a very few of the type music made back in the day, music meant more!

Also back in the day, you had to have talent, you had to know your instrument, for the most part you had to really be able to sing.

The music scene was way way way better, as far as the acts and the music!

How about this one?

As a high school teacher, I can share with you without a shadow of a doubt, that most youngsters don't care about those old school acts!

notice, I did not say all, but most ... there's absolutely no doubt about it!

I've done it, I've asked them about old school acts and most of them have never even heard of them. Acts that most of us would instantly know, they haven't a clue.

For example...
Bad Company
Foghat
Grand Funk
Sly And The Family Stone
Rare Earth
Edgar Winter

Most of my students, have never even heard of these acts? Now when I let them hear a song or two, some of them may say yeah I've heard that song but I never knew who it was.

This is one of the reasons I started exposing them to Paul McCartney. I just felt they should know who the greatest songwriter is!

Fish meet ILX barrel

haha... this one's great as well:

I've done it, I've asked them about old school acts and most of them have never even heard of them. Acts that most of us would instantly know, they haven't a clue.

For example...
Bad Company
Foghat
Grand Funk
Sly And The Family Stone
Rare Earth
Edgar Winter

Most of my students, have never even heard of these acts? Now when I let them hear a song or two, some of them may say yeah I've heard that song but I never knew who it was.

This is one of the reasons I started exposing them to Paul McCartney. I just felt they should know who the greatest songwriter is!

maccafan, Today at 2:46 PM

Hehehehe... posted that one above, niels... the image of some teacher internally flipping out because his students don't know who Rare Earth are in 2017 is utterly priceless.

haha lol I see! but yeah, great stuff

It's like a Room Full of Lefsetz

BrunoKirbySpinalTap.jpg

classic and dud... I got banned pretty quick for linking an article that denigrated the forum/Hoffman etc. On the surface, it feels like MOJO magazine BBS, with a bunch of curmudgeonly middle-aged men flossing their tech "knowledge," more concern for audio quality, x pressing of Sea Change, etc. than actual music. But it goes beyond that, there's some decent, in-depth Grateful Dead discussion, general classical and jazz talk etc. - it's useful to an extent. Judging by some posts, it's as if some people regard the site as some holy grail of music and -related information. Maybe it's just a generally less 'hip' demographic than ILX, I don't know.

I like all the same music as those dudes, but I don't want to talk about it with them. Perhaps out of fear that I secretly am one of them. They are definitely a valuable resource if/when I'm deciding which reissue of an album I should buy, though. (That's where I heard about the Japanese super deluxe expanded edition of Santana's Lotus which will shortly be on its way to me.)

it's probably a really good place to learn more about foghat

i hope he's not an english teacher. xxxxxxxxp

They are definitely a valuable resource if/when I'm deciding which reissue of an album I should buy, though.

Or which old pressing if you're a record collector.

it's probably a really good place to learn more about foghat

There are some interesting posters who seem to have been active on the late, lamented Velvet Rope forums, which were designed to have discussions among people in the recording and broadcasting industries. I have discovered a number of overlooked 80's/90's and prog bands through member recommendations, too

it's true, they do have a lot of information about old pressings etc., at least when they don't include Hoffman masters. Then you have to sift through the moderator-enforced hagiography to figure out which of the options is best.

I've been enjoying the Fall album-by-album thread on SHF.

Link pls?

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-fall-album-by-album-by-single-by-cassette-thread.485363/

It's a normal thread, no lols to be had from confused interlopers.

Of course the variations in quality between different cd editions of fall albums are some of the hugest of any artist ever so hoffman forum kind of a logical place for a thread like that

yeah hoffman boards what a bunch of losers just debating old led zeppelin albums and beatles remasters...oh wait

http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t389/TheEst/Reviews/the-servant-dirk-bogarde-james-fox.jpg:original

Damn straight, I just discovered Steve Hoffmann forums and wish I hadn't started up here. They may not be quite as smart but they aren't broken creeps like the swine on ILM. I tried for 20 years with positive and encouraging comments, got a lot of attitude in return. See y'all later

― Iago Galdston, Sunday, April 2, 2017 5:33 PM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha, I still flit through those forums. but I got over my 'must have best digital pressing of anything' tendencies very very quickly. It is useful for finding out information on vinyl pressings though.

steve hoffman's mastering on the whole (that I've heard) is really good though. it's worth going to piratebay and finding the leaked (by himself) mastering he did of All Things Must Pass that wound up not getting released.

he did the best edition of Raiders of the Lost Ark for those who care.

...and Steve and his minions will tell you his work is the very best. The. Very. Best.

There's a hilarious Hoffman hater board. Just read this thread and howl: http://stereocentral.tv/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6167

that's a pretty funny site, although, I can't see myself being so worked up about this guy and his message board that it warrants an entirely new board to mock it

It is useful for finding out information on vinyl pressings though.

Can I just say - extremely useful. Sometimes the only place on the internet for information.

yeah hoffman boards what a bunch of losers just debating old led zeppelin albums and beatles remasters...oh wait

― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, April 17, 2017 4:22 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You'd have a point if almost every thread on the front page of ILM was a Beatles thread, with such incredible topics as "what colour socks did Ringo wear when recording 'Tomorrow Never Knows'" or "what brand of condom did Paul set fire to in Hamburg?"

any truth to the story that All Things Must Pass had *re-recorded* guitar parts etc on the CD issued in 2001? admittedly i only ever read this tale on the forums in question.

i actually like nothing better than discussing classic rock minutiae with you fine folks and i've def found some good info on the hoffman boards
not the greatest discussions always but sometimes some real old school head type engineer dude will drop some science and shit and that's cool

does tape op have boards? i should check those out

In fact, I'm of the impression that Ken Scott (yes, he who worked with The Beatles) used to post at the retirement home but got pissed off with it eventually, calling the host a "jumped up cutting engineer" ... Ouch.

Bob Ezrin taking the Hoff to task over his work on Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies was also pretty hilarious.

I'm not sure if there are re-recorded guitar parts on that reissue. it's not the best sounding reissue though. but that's also not the best sounding album in any version.

"Bob Ezrin taking the Hoff to task over his work on Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies was also pretty hilarious."

where was that?

any truth to the story that All Things Must Pass had *re-recorded* guitar parts etc on the CD issued in 2001? admittedly i only ever read this tale on the forums in question.

― piscesx, Monday, April 17, 2017 9:15 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No, it's a load of bollocks. There was some overdubbing on 'I Live For You', which was recorded at the sessions but unfinished, so it was brought up to scratch and put out as a bonus track.

"jumped up cutting engineer" ... Ouch.

#ethered

xxxpost:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/adventures-in-mastering-alice-cooper-billion-dollar-babies-for-audio-fidelity.334492/page-3

holy shit that's amazing

xp ahh gotcha, makes sense. i still love ATMP's production, especially on What Is Life and Awaiting On You All; that hazy, blurry chaotic racket.

i think the one thing that is really unforgivable is that he sold his own CDrs of his remaster work for All things Must Pass to the highest bidder (also, some other unreleased mastering jobs) in order to keep his site going. But he prohibits discussion or links to bootlegs on the site (actually that seems to have been loosened up quite a bit lately). I mean, he essentially personally profited off a bootlegged master and leaked that into the pirate market.

if you ask about that on the site your message gets swifly deleted

See also: the Buddy Holly/The Picks saga.

As detailed here:

http://www.houstonpress.com/music/bone-to-pick-6567653

the concept of a forum moderated and owned by a very opinionated opinionated poster who dislikes dissent is... not appealing

as anyone who's ever visited the byrnerobotics.com forums can attest

that buddy holly story is fucking weird.

Enjoying this one a lot right now. http://stereocentral.tv/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6703
I was checking out the Hoffman board for years before discovering Stereo Central, like an amazing payoff to a joke which had been going on for a ridiculous length of time.

a lot of the excesses are genuinely amusing but jesus there's some depressing shit in there too -- here's the Hoff on "aspirations":

You certainly are free to enjoy my masterings on a boombox or a Pioneer receiver and some beat up BIC speakers from 1975 but to not even strive to save to get something better eventually, that's just denial. The goal is to enjoy your music on the best system you can, no matter your price range or salary bracket. If that means eating out of a few cans and skipping Starbucks on the way to work for a few months, so be it. Get it done.

here he is later, from the above linked Billion Dollar Babies thread, lamenting being told to cease and desist making those threads detailing his work on the Audio Fidelity remasters:

Eh, no big deal, I talk too much anyway. No one in charge really likes me blabbing about mastering experiences (no record company suits, legal, etc.) so maybe it's for the best.

For me it's like a stress release after a big project, to talk about it to people who might care. Otherwise it just ends cold turkey and I sometimes go into a tailspin.

all of this can be yours etc

I'm just more amazed at how busy that place is!

You look at page one, and the last thread on the page is, what, (just looked) 36 minutes old wrt last message?

Audiophiles be Audiophillin'

You know it goes a lot deeper than that. Steve hasn’t set up this forum to have smart asses correct him. It’s also not your job to invite engineers to our site to be questioned like a jury. A PM to get a gort to send a formal invitation would have been more appropriate.

'gort'?

http://www.jeffbots.com/gort.jpg

yup, that's what they call mods

ffs

They don't FP, they invoke klaatu barada nikto

http://i.imgur.com/GZce8rT.jpg

LOL!

Yeah, they really don't "get" hip-hop/rap at all over at the retirement home.

the dumb part is Frank was talking about the Beatles and the Stones and all the 60s classic rock they endlessly jack off over

'we were all afraid to go in the other studio' ooooof

not sure what track those totally real lyrics are from

who could forget MC Gangsta's classic "I'm a Big Big Big Black Motherfuckin' Man"?

from his sophomore joint fuck steve hoffman iirc

If he doesn't still have a copy of the footage maybe CNN could oblige.

if cnn does have the footage but cnn is FAKE NEWS then did it really happen at all

makes u think

original master tapes or it didn't happen

Steve Hoffman masters records where you can hear bleed through the walls from another studio? He should try putting up some baffling

Already baffled enough tbh

I'm a Hoff Man, I'm an old Hoff Man, I'm a big old white remasterin' Hoff Man.

the worst thing about that MC Gangsta record is that it was mastered with pre-emphasis iirc

Interesting how he felt the need to censor "fuck", "motherfucking" and "bitch", but not "nigga" ...

"Needless to say" a CNN news crew happened to be there.

Obviously that mastering studio didn't have brickwalls. See what I did there?

Stereo Central has suddenly disappeared? (was there Monday...)

http://stereocentral.tv/phpbb/index.php

i think about that 'rapper' story frequently since reading that. lol that they were scared to go next door

that story reads so much like it was lifted from this facebook page, I can't believe its real

i wonder if specifically mentioning he was mastering nat king cole was equivalent to saying 'i'm not racist, but...'

Having a quick glance over at the retirement home, seems someone has woken 'em up by stating that Kraftwerk are more influential on modern music than The Beatles...

it's a common-held notion that electronic music isn't made with 'real' instruments, o'er at the SHF (MOJO magazine of music bbssus)

*bbs's

Ahh man, c'mon. You can't just say that and not post a link!

It was on the first page of the forum last time I checked!

Yeesh, I got to page two. Does it go on like that for the entire thing?

I am so tempted to register a troll account now.

https://i.imgur.com/1GM4wYt.png

Gee, wonder why they broke up?

I mean, fucking hell, people in "some are music trivia obsessives and some aren't" shocker - if he's seriously never come across a woman who is a music obsessive or at the very least "into music" then he needs to get out more.

This idea that women aren't interested in the technology behind the reproduction of music is utter horseshit, and I'm sure the likes of Anjali Dutt (My Bloody Valentine/Oasis), Susan Rogers (Prince), Lenise Bent & Linda Tyler (Steely Dan), not to mention the numerous female electronic producers around at the moment would all probably have something to say about that.

Then again, this kind of old fashioned old fart nonsense is pretty much exactly what I'd expect to read over at the retirement home.

Noooooo Stereo Central has seemingly died

HER "Ok, if you say so.

savage

Stereo Central has seemingly died

Yeah, I noticed that. What a bummer, that place was a frickin' riot!

Re: sexism and music obsessiveness: My wife isn't into music that way I am, but I've got a friend who's my gig-wife. She's got similar tastes and insists we stand in the front. Anyone else have a friend who subs for their spouse when going out to see bands?

HER: I really love this song..it's so moving!

ME: Yea this was from their early days before they started using synths. Notice how the guitar and drums stay in sync...

https://cdn.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_u/thumbs/2015/Mar/17/733fc6b60597_sf_2.jpg

That guy might be a bit on the autism spectrum, don't you think?

One of them actually enjoys music.

I'll go that far, no further.

There are different ways to enjoy music. Getting into recording minutae is as valid as any other aspect but reeling off those details at someone and wondering why *they* aren't getting it...

I wonder if he'd even talk to his male music buddies like that though.

Tbqh, I don't buy that specific scenario. Is fiction.

Which makes it more revealing really.

I like Turrican's response taking the exact form of the linked forum poster's "rebuttal to ex-girlfriend" statement

XD

I wonder if he'd even talk to his male music buddies like that though.

― Noel Emits, Monday, September 25, 2017 6:47 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's hard to say... I'm guessing that he probably doesn't, but given which site the post was made on...

Then again, I don't really expect anyone to talk about music offline the same way as they do online. I mean, there's a reason why places such as this exist. In my case, I hardly ever talk about music offline, if at all - there's a zillion other things I'd much rather talk about that are far more important, and this forum is enough to scratch my musical discussion itch.

I like Turrican's response taking the exact form of the linked forum poster's "rebuttal to ex-girlfriend" statement

― mh, Monday, September 25, 2017 7:52 PM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I often think the same when I read your posts, fwiw, except the exact form they take is that of an utter cock.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6b/85/34/6b85347c9d6c473ec32899fe8fc3704b--vic-reeves-comedy-tv.jpg

http://www.forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-klf-album-by-single-by-album.692361/

I do recommend this one, a KLF rundown.

Yes! The KLF and Fall rundown threads are very good.

there are people on those boards with good taste, they're just hidden by the rest

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/search-dog-illustration-logo-67627852.jpg

I used to frequent the ILX site "I Love Music", what horrible a-holes they are over there...this is the best music forum hands down
Post by: sekaer, May 2, 2017 in forum: Music Corner

there's a 200-post thread on Motorpsycho, them boards ain't all bad

it's a good source for vinyl pressing info and for which reissue labels to avoid.

Does anyone ever take the bait and click on this thing called web.musicaficionado.com? Seems like it is going to be totally generic feed but sometimes it turns out to be apparently competent classic rock career overview along with some okay playlists with interesting tracks. /dontknowwheretopostthisso

22 Reasons Not To Forget Spooky Tooth

Ok, I'm sold.

B-b-but how do I keep up with such things since I let my Mojo subscription lapse?

can't help wondering what an ILM equivalent of Stereo Central would be like

At record club we pretty much talk like a chunk of ILM text used as a script. Dick jokes included.

HER "Ok, if you say so.

savage

I'm suspecting that even "the singer has a sexy voice" was a bit of a jab. Guy is obv wrong to generalize about women, partly for the reason that Turrican gives, but he mostly just seems like someone who genuinely has a hard time relating/connecting, based on that post.

yeah, Sundr4/Turrican OTM here

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/lesson-learned-dont-try-to-set-an-older-person-straight-on-music.698823/

I'm 52. I'm a music dork, like 85% of us here on this forum. Music history is important to me, and I enjoy discussing it with people.

I was shopping at Trader Joe's today. While standing around at the sample table, "Do You Want To Dance" by Bobby Freeman came on the store music player. An older woman -I'd say in her 70s- was chatting to the server and said "Do you know who this is?". Me being All-Knowing, said "Yup! Bobby Freeman!". She said no, that it was Ritchie Valens. I gently said, well he may have recorded it, but Bobby Freeman did the hit version we are hearing. She told me no- it's Ritchie Valens. It's on his album. It was a hit. I said, that might be, but we are hearing Bobby Freeman.

Then another patron got out his phone and pointed out it was actually Bobby Freeman. She refused to budge. "I was alive at the time. I was there. I remember his plane crash at the high school". I pointed out that yes it's a shame we lost 2 bright stars- Valens and Buddy Holly. She said no- he died in a crash by a high school. "I was alive at the time".
I sighed and said I definitely was not there, and I didn't know about the other plane crash. Knowingly smiled at the guy with the cell phone and went on my way.

Tuesday at 3:56 PM

SammyJoe, DTK, paulmccartneyistheman and 6 others like this.

It's good for people on the spectrum to have a safe place for discussions away from you jackals.

Seriously though, they have a good reggae thread with input from people around the world who run some reissue labels.

I thought THIS was the safe place!

I still don't understand why audiophilia isn't listed in the DSM-V

https://i.imgur.com/F6fAP3g.png

https://i.imgur.com/1Rameyd.png

"semen stains the mountain tops"

haha

New Paul McCartney album "Egypt Station" coming September 7, 2018

Replies: 19278

Views: 954,267

i was actually curious which remaster of soft machine third sounded best and it got to like page three or four of the steve hoffman thread before everyone in it realized the album was poorly recorded and so there's no clear or ideal master of it

it was sorta like the whole board was summarized v neatly for me there, people arrogantly throwing around a lot of knowledge presumably gleaned from very intense, detail-oriented listening, which turns out to be largely meaningless and inapplicable

yeah but they are helpful about a lot of others, it can be handy!

...it's definitely not the place to find a quick recommendation for replacement lp jackets/sleeves etc. now THAT is a totally obnoxious and unhelpful stevehoffman rabbit hole

oh i don't mean to suggest they aren't occasionally helpful, especially with finding good unremixed copies of catalogues that have been remastered and remixed (cf. genesis)

I'm still looking forward to Egypt Station!

Me too - particularly since, at this point, each McCartney album increasingly looks as if it may be his last. I didn't rate New as highly as Chaos and Creation... or Memory Almost Full, but there was enough on there for me to enjoy.

I've gotten some great stereo system advice on there fwiw.

TBF the title of that thread changed once it was clear what the name of the album would be; that thread has been running for a few years ever since the sessions were first rumored to be happening.

also, finally, the massive proliferation of beatles threads has dampened my interest in that forum. I dealt with it for years but at this point it just seems to be trodding over old ground every day

on the other hand

Daft Punk's Random Access Memories
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i was actually curious which remaster of soft machine third sounded best and it got to like page three or four of the steve hoffman thread before everyone in it realized the album was poorly recorded and so there's no clear or ideal master of it

― princess of hell (BradNelson)

surprised it took that long, yeah the whole album is legendarily awful sounding. i don't know what the hell they did to those tapes to get them to sound so bad.

also I think the answer to that question is that the latest remaster/reissue sounds the best. not sure what they did to it but it doesn't sound good, but sounds better than the cd I used to have

Which version of The Fall’s “Dragnet” sounds the best?

also, finally, the massive proliferation of beatles threads has dampened my interest in that forum.

I'm familiar with this feeling

xpost

all of them :)

Hoffman's response to the Peter Shelley RIP thread is jaw-droppingly cuntish and continues to sink to newer lows several pages in
detailed breakdown of the misery starts at the bottom of this page:
http://stereocentral.freeforums.net/thread/3/rip?page=37

i think that he's being misinterpreted. I looked @ that thread the morning after PS passed and at that time it appeared that the OP didn't put Buzzcocks in the thread title. so (in a dickish way) i think he was just trying to make that person clarify who died since i think there's a poet w/the same name

tbf, he is (being) a grumpy sod.

"think he was just trying to make that person clarify who died since i think there's a poet w/the same name"

Percy Shelley died in 1822

He's only just heard though.

Hoffman's posts are so awful in that thread, his is the first reply with simply "Who is he?", which is hard to find an angle where it can't be read disrespectfully. He spends the next few pages raging on about the importance of titling a thread properly, before realising that Pete Shelley was actually an important and much-loved figure, prompting him to pull out "I knew him in the 80s and tried to help him out financially" six pages in, seemingly out of nowhere

the guy has some serious ego issues

I found it useful for trivia. For example there's a thread about albums released on DAT - the only one I knew was Substance, the New Order compilation, but there are others. Such as Kylie Minogue's first album(!):
https://www.discogs.com/Kylie-Minogue-Kylie/release/8856256

DAT was a digital tape format from 1988 or so that recorded at 48khz. Never took off commercially but was popular in the broadcasting world in the years before burning a CDr was practical. Worthless now. Replaced in the studio by ADAT, which used VHS tapes, which was then replaced by hard disc recording and software instruments.

What else did I learn from Steve Hoffman's forums? Early Blue Note records have a deep groove in the label. Some records were made out of styrene, which was more easily damaged than vinyl. Early versions of the bezel had a dot over the ninety. The Japanese PlayStation had a slightly smaller controller. Columbia was slightly heavier than the later shuttles because it was originally designed to carry a liquid fuelled rocket in the cargo bay. Between Egypt and Sudan there's an 800-square-mild chunk of land called Bir Tawil that is unclaimed by either country because when the maps were drawn up the lines didn't match. I'm digressing here. Some of those things I learned elsewhere.

As with discogs.com my impression of the participants is that their musical taste is awful - it's always jazz/blues-rock, never Autechre - but ultimately it's not a music forum, it's a music technology forum, just as discogs is an eBay seller forum. After a while I felt like screaming "you're an old man; your hearing is shot; it's a physical inevitability; you've wasted a fortune on audio gear that you can't hear properly; no, you can't run faster than a young man; you're full of shit" but I doubt they would have heard me on account of the hearing loss.

Conversely IlXor *does* have a wealth of musical knowledge but as with the pre-Kinja AV Club the frustrating thing is that it's hard to write about music so discussions tend to drift off into space. I hate it when discussions move from the topic, which in this case is ejection seats, because some early jet fighters had downwards-firing ejection seats. One moment you're debating whether it's a good idea to put decorations on the *other* side of the Christmas tree - the one that faces the wall - and the next moment you're left wondering if the Austin Allegro could have been a better car with a hatchback and a subtle redesign. Battlecruisers, yay or nay?

To this day I have no idea who Steve Hoffman is, or was. I have a mental image of one of those anonymous studio people from Los Angeles who proudly lists his work with Mr Mister, Toto, and Heart; the kind of person whose website has a photo of him standing next to music legend Bill Bottrell. *The* Bill Bottrell! Oh yes, him. The musical world's equivalent of a professional grouter.

great post. the pedantic nerd in me kinda loves this stuff: hearing the small differences between this pressing and that one, getting into all the incidental technical details, etc etc

Hoffman himself seems pretty awful

they actually do have a small contingent of Autechre fans, by the way :)

Discogs has a large Autechre contingent as it started out as an electronic music database. Also as a participant there I can say that musical taste is as varied as can possibly be and it's still at least as much about nerdery and collecting as selling.

yeah, there's a lot of Autechre talk on that forum, for one thing

Hoffman (right):
http://www.stevehoffman.info/pic/cc_steve.jpg
TBF he created the best mastering that exists of Highway 61 Revisited and has done a great job on a bunch of other recordings.
but also
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/3593451.jpg
(endorsing a bizarre piece of wood you stand in your room to make music sound better, I am not joking)

sorry, I forgot the wiggle stick image was already itt

had no idea discogs had a forum

In the second pic, which one is Hoffman?

I ignored it for years. It's mainly abkut the mechanics / politics of the database. There are hundreds, possibly thousands of specialist Group forums on Discogs although many are wastelands. Electronic Music has about 20,000 members, though.

MatthewK - the second photo needs a Hoffman (Left) caption. (haha xp)

lol

(You have insufficient privileges to reply here.)

jerks.

You are insufficiently privileged to reply here.

I found such behavior sad for a senior citizen.

Xpost that is usually because the thread is locked (for going off topic, political snark, etc)

"I was alive at the time. I was there. I remember his plane crash at the high school". I pointed out that yes it's a shame we lost 2 bright stars- Valens and Buddy Holly.

I get that The Big Bopper was a DJ with a novelty hit, but damn that's cold.

I have discovered the stereocentral forum which is a good laugh though it's really a Hoffman boards slambook.

lol really? audiophile mastering beef

Didn't think I'd see a thread dedicated to that forum. Honestly, the feuding that's gone on over there has been the saddest spectacle I've ever witnessed on the internet. It's even spilled out into Wikipedia, and I imagine whoever runs it is shaking their heads, wondering "why the hell are all these people waging this ongoing edit war on a page over a mastering engineer?" It's really sad yet fascinating how it's snowballed over the years, eventually ensnaring renowned engineers like Ken Scott (the Beatles, David Bowie's glam rock albums). The low point was when it came out that Hoffman had a reputation for stealing and/or neglecting to return masters, which is how he got fired from his previous job with MCA.

Anyway, it's heavily populated by complete nuts, and I don't mean obsessive collectors, just socially dysfunctional malcontents. But there are a few highly knowledgeable people who have come and gone through there, and it's worth searching the site once in a while if you need vital record info, especially if it's related to mastering, masters/sources used, etc. Just be sure you get the right info from the right people posting. It's especially edifying if it's coming from people who work in the business. (The great Motown engineer Bob Olhsson actually posts there once in a while, and thankfully he comes off as a very sane and likable person.)

One can go on forever about all the negatives - I mean, sweet Jesus, it actually spawned another forum that exists solely to mock it - but on the positive side, I guess it took highly esoteric but really good information about how masters, records, CD's, SACD's, etc. sound the way they do and made people more knowledgeable about it. In some cases to an unhealthy degree, but it can be nice when you realize it can save you a good deal of $$$ when you get in the habit of skipping remasters of music you already own because they actually sound worse than what you already have.

god i had such a good laugh reading your post, it’s all so painfully true. thank you

sadly, I would definitely read a juicy Hoffman expose lol

https://vintagerock.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/steve_hoffman_interview.jpg

https://vintagerock.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/steve_hoffman_interview.jpg

here's that slam forum: https://stereocentral.freeforums.net. Like I said, some of it is good reading, particularly the stuff they snag before it's deleted where some SHF posters go off into really awful right-wing political shit.

anybody wanna explain what the hell is going with that forum?

i'm out of the loop and seriously confused by all of this.

discovering that forum makes me wonder where the anti-ilx forum is

it's called ilx

ha.

Austin, i wish i could help but i don't think i know anything you don't know. birdistheword's post sort of sums it up pretty well i think.

yup. I visit about once a month and the threads on bands I'm really interested in have been pretty helpful.

Good god, the current thread over there about RZA's new ice cream truck jingle is.... something.

lol I racked my brain trying to think why RZA would write an ice cream jingle and how it would become a clusterfuck on the steve hoffman forums and I'm sad to say I pretty much guessed right

discovering that forum makes me wonder where the anti-ilx forum is

hipinion?

xli?

so wait, it's literally a parody thread full of fake posts in the SHF style? That seems like a...very odd use of time

Its not really full of parodies, more filled with threads mocking Hoffman and specific posters.

There can't be many places that banned so many users they decided to start their own forum just to make fun of the one where they originally posted.

That actually happens a lot, 2 that I could think of in recent years.

Looks like the Hoffman Forums got taken out by hackers, at least that's what is implied by some posts on that slam forum.

Looks like it's been DOS attacked

Xpost blimey!

dammit they are my source for Jethro Tull news

According to that other forum, someone may have hacked H0ffman's own account and posted a few things under his name.

Now we will never know which pressing of Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs best foregrounds God’s coked-up despair.

lol

I got a message on there thsi morning saying they'd been hacked, claimed to come from Steve Hoffman himself. NOt sure how true that is, also seemed to be an individual message to me so is that a BCC type thing.

Got told i might need a 2fa which i know nothing about

Tried to chjeckj back on there about 20 minutes ago and I can't get near the site apparently.

According to that slam forum, every user got that message from Steve himself.

what are the odds that SH posted something horrible and then decided to blow up the board

Fuck I wanted to figure out what the hot-stamper for Breakfast in America was!

sounds like the whole joint got hot-stamped

You think the hackers used MyDoom or Slowloris in the attack, or do you think they went the classic route with Stacheldraht?

Those first two will definitely keep your victims guessing for a few hours but the pitch on Stacheldraht leaves you with no doubt that you've been fucked.

Six of one, half a dozen perhaps....

According to the big guy's twitter, it was one of the mods that got their account hacked.

As much as there was a lot to make fun of there, and what an alternately lame and borderline toxic place it was in general, I did use the search function a ton to try to suss out eg whether it was advisable to pick up certain represses & such. If it’s permanently gone, I’ll miss it.

yeah it was actually a pretty good resource sometimes

Yeah, as easy and fun as it was to dunk on that place and some of the people that populate it, it was often a good place to get some good information. For better or worse, there were a lot of connected people that shared some good info about releases. Andy Z@x, for example, would stop by to give updates on that Woodstock box.

Absolutely. It amazes how many people, mostly engineers, have left that forum, either because of Hoffman or because of the socially-dysfunctional assholes who would lash out at them. Mastering engineers who have worked on countless releases, but also people like Ken Scott (The Beatles, David Bowie, Devo) and the late Orrin Keepnews (every jazz listener should know him). And yet, look at how many reissue producers still participate on that forum. The producers behind the new Richard & Linda Thompson, Tom Petty and Replacements box sets (all different producers) were actively participating in threads, answering questions and taking feedback.

*amazes me

looks like it's working now?

I.. uh.. no, no idea.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/is-rock-music-dead.937372/page-22#post-25206133

(comment is gone btw, I actually reported it with a not very nice comment to their board admins about how they delete the most benign crap but leave up some sexist weird bullshit like this; it was gone within ten seconds)

i'm trying to figure out if the recent Brian Eno vinyl remasters are worth it and 40 pages later I still have no goddamn idea

Without having heard them, I'd say probably not (especially ambient albums with four tracks at 45 RPM on 2 records with a decent chance of pressing defects that were very well DSD mastered for CD in 2004/5)

Say what you will about the Hoffman Forums, but The Grateful Thread is the best place on the internet to discuss the Dead if you're into that kind of thing. Just a bunch of chill, good-natured Deadheads of all ages nerding out about their favorite shows and jams. 5,385 pages and counting lol

ha funny enough I’m listening to the new vinyl remaster of discreet music and it’s sounding good to me! Not that there’s an insane amount of detail there lol

it’s cool cuz you can play it at 45 and double the album length.. I have reflection on 45 double vinyl too it’s all good

Oh yeah, I settled on avoiding the 2x45 releases. I’m not thrilled about the idea of getting up every ten minutes to flip a record in the middle of an original LP side. Going to check for pressing errors but it seems like the single 33 versions are ok, and I only ever picked up the first four albums on CD.

it can be hard trying to get a consensus on the SH forums. also, the fussiness over pressings, like on discogs, makes it bloody hard to gauge sometimes.

I have 3 of the 4 vocal albums. Tiger Mountain sounds great, Before & After Science is crisp but I think its mastered a little hot. though its better than my original copy.

Tiger Mountain is the one that caused the most fuss over there, with some v angry debate over whether minor audio dropouts on the 2x45 were from individual bad pressings or tape degradation on the original master

because if there's one thing to be fired up about, it's that am i right.

oh wait. I have the Astralwerks single LP versions. I forgot they made 2x45 versions

I like it when guys on sh forums post pics of the 9 diff pressings they have of the same album.

sometimes i want to register just to reply "weird flex, but okay" on those kinds of posts.

Even better is when those dudes (they are always dudes) tell someone else they can't possibly comment on an album because they haven't heard every possible pressing.

see now, a man knowing when to shut up is actually a very refreshing thing.

tbh I find that level of fussiness useful sometimes - idk if I could stand to have actual discussions on those boards (outside of a few decent artist-specific threads) but when they talk about a certain cartridge or cleaning product that they like, you damn well know it's a good one

sometimes i want to register just to reply "weird flex, but okay"

lol, very relatable post.

yeah it's super frustrating when those guys say they have 16 versions of every gentle giant album, but then there's one who says "i have 16 pressings of every gentle giant album, and here are the best ones." that's useful. i remember reading an r. metzer review of ornette coleman's "of human feelings," which went something like "i own 36 ornette coleman albums and this one sucks!"

As a fan of message board drama and especially record punisher punishment, I BEG those of you that follow the Hoffman Forums to please alert this thread whenever there is a fuss of note over there! If there's a fight about Steven Wilson Relayer vs the OG pressing on page 698 of the YES thread, I want to know about it!

tbh I find that level of fussiness useful sometimes

That's for sure. It's basically the only resource I have. Like if I'm digging into the back catalog of someone who's been reissued many, many times, the first question I have is, which ones should I buy? (i.e. I only want to buy this shit ONCE.) There is no sane person in my life who could answer that question, much less be remotely interested in finding out the answer - I'm certain the only response that would come to mind is "Why don't you look it up on Amazon? Don't they have that?"

kurt schwitterz otm, we need more drama reports itt, thank you to all posters for your previous efforts in this regard

second.

The hands-down best thing I ever saw on the Hoffman forums was a post that went into great detail about the mics and positioning thereof, tape machine, desk, and engineers for Live At Leeds (and Live At Hull)). For decades I assumed Glyn Johns was the engineer, since it’s the best Keith Moon’s kit had ever been miked. It wasn’t Johns, and I can’t remember the engineer’s name, but he used a total of four mics for the drums: one on each bass drum, and two overheads. That’s it. And while those forums aren’t exactly brimming with posts like that, it’s worth scanning through the endless “my Dave’s Picks hasn’t shipped yet!” posts to get to them.

In fairness a lot of guys over there do know their stuff.

Its just when I was looking for tips on which pressing of sticky fingers to buy I got lost in all the comparisons, and then my brain went numb as a discussion went from comparing 2015 vinyl to 2020 vinyl ams then comparisons of the same edition when it was part of a box set, and then some forensic tracing of which masters were being used when and where. In the end I decided not to bother and that I would just keep my old knackered copy.

Being generous the OP could do with a tl;dr (unless you actually read the title) but this thread about Goldie's Timeless with various non sequitur posts about acknowledged d&b dons Tom Petty, Donald Fagen and of course The Beatles made me laugh.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/timeless-aged-well-its-a-classic-album.966096/

also lolled

I thought maybe the Bruce Hornsby guy was in on the joke, but then I remembered what forum I was reading.

They’re into posting the cover art every time they mention an album, huh

I don't approve digging into the records that are broader and more complicated than life itself

dying

"I approve digging into the records that are broader and more complicated than life itself...some of the most unlistenable stuff ive ever heard, definitely needs its own thread"

new ILM description?

Did Stereocentral vanish for good?

This?

https://stereocentral.freeforums.net/

Oh! Thank you. It had shit down for maintenance, I had thought. Maybe the web address changed as well. I’m very grateful

I stumbled on the old forum several years ago and was surprised to find a gold mine of posts from Shawn Britton and Rob LoVerde from Mobile Fidelity. I guess something happened with the old forum, because all of those posts seem to be lost forever. A real shame, they had some amazing info.

The new MFSL interview zings Steve Hoffman at 34:30 without using his name

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shg0780YgAE

is this Youtuber for real with his "BREAKING NEWS" hysterics less than a week ago about Mobile Fidelity not being fully analog and now putting out a sit down interview with them about it?

I don't care about this stuff, don't own any of their expensive product, but it's pretty funny.

I mean, it has the H0ffmanites all up in a tizzy with many saying they will never buy from MoFi again so.... it's something, I guess.

haha ok i will enjoy on my next visit to the forums

I didn't see his previous video - I generally don't watch one-man rant videos, ever - but I tuned in for this one simply because it was more like a group interview with people who know what they're talking about firsthand, it did indeed have some good info.

small self-confidence boost: i don't know what any of those dudes are talking about.

I checked the forums; the thread about this is at 170 pages. This post on the first page is kind of perfect:

It’s impossible that they are digital because so many people on here can ‘sense the naturalness’ of analog over the ‘harsh superficial glare’ of digital. So they would have known already and told us.

LMAO

oh wait i might've paid an extra dollar for the fully analog Loveless. I'm a hypocrite

not going to deny it, i love the charity shop thread that i hang out on ..

lol Tarfumes, amazing find

those quotes might be a hint.

It’s impossible that they are digital because so many people on here can ‘sense the naturalness’ of analog over the ‘harsh superficial glare’ of digital. So they would have known already and told us.

i laughed too but geez those mofi guys are sampling at 4xDSD which is roughly 11,000,000 samples per second. that's got to be more or less transparent to anybody's ears.

never, the digital glare is caused by the shininess of 0s and 1s, you can never get rid of it, unless you use this power cable studded with crystals

Sounds like a secret society with a guru figure, with rituals done at home where they all connect together through their magic machinery, preserving a lost art known only to a few chosen (male) ones
Begging for an anthropological study.

he had this Mofi version of Bringing It All Back Home, a record I am quite familiar with
https://www.discogs.com/release/9486656-Bob-Dylan-Bringing-It-All-Back-Home
and I swear I was hearing things I had never heard before when he put it on

JFC, the median price for that on Discogs is $110 with one purchase going as high as $225.

For years, a brand-new copy of Mofi's SACD was typically sold direct from Mofi or Music Direct for $15-20 - it may still be available for $15-20 at any retailers who still have stock. And both the SACD and the vinyl were likely mastered from the same DSD transfers of the original mono master tape. (FWIW, the stereo version they put out is a digital remix, not worth it.)

I've got one myself, it's a definitely an upgrade, but no one in their right mind should dump an extra $100+ into the toilet just to have it carved into two slabs of vinyl.

*it's definitely

Man, they better not have lied about using the original master on this:

https://i.discogs.com/xorbQhHZeVxhlAMH1BLMfBzzglPLW8uaWIqo2qhB-pQ/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE5OTAz/MjItMTQ5MjAzODU5/OC04MzUzLmpwZWc.jpeg

those quotes might be a hint.

Seems quite clearly to be sarcasm, to be fair to that poster.

Yeah, that one was pretty clearly sarcasm or trolling, but it's telling of that site in general that there was even a question. That said, I know a lot of those stereocental folks that set up an entire H0ffman burn forum like to troll the H0ffman forums with those kind of posts too.

i just stopped parsing sarcasm like ages and ages ago. i recommend it - it's done me a world of good. whatever someone says, i just treat it like they meant it seriously and unironically.

in fairness to sh.tv, this listening project some of them are doing where they listen to and review every single recorded version of dark star is pretty great. aside from _dots and loops_ basically the only music i've been listening to for the last year+ is dead boots, and the project was just _essential_ for me when i was compiling my greyfolded-style tc-era dark star mix.

https://everydarkstar.blogspot.com/

Man, they better not have lied about using the original master on this

That's actually a good one to have. I only hope the master didn't get damaged or destroyed in that fire some asshat caused on the Universal lot.

But yes, it's the original (and correct!) master.

i just stopped parsing sarcasm like ages and ages ago. i recommend it - it's done me a world of good. whatever someone says, i just treat it like they meant it seriously and unironically.

I am hard-wired to not detect sarcasm unless it's completely transparent and this tendency feels like a perk to me

I was not the world's biggest Kids in the Hall fan but this sketch has lived in my head for 30+ years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9vunDdxWLA

Oh no, what a personal disaster!

It's best to detect the sarcasm but respond like it's sincere, everybody wins.

there should be bb code for [ sarcasm ]that messes with capitalization or something

I remember reading about this thread back in June:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/will-sanctions-be-the-end-of-the-tube-resurgence.1134832/

A lot of vacuum tubes come from Russia, apparently. It's fascinating both for a glimpse into a peculiar worldview and also because it's 51 pages long.

On the other hand Russia was for a long time the only source of old-fashioned mercury camera batteries, so I can see where they're coming from. The frustrating thing is that in the early 2000s a lot of people assumed that camera film would never die because China and Russia would continue to pump it out forever, because it would be decades before digital cameras became a thing in the former second world. But of course digital cameras and eventually smartphones crashed in price, and in large parts of the world a smartphone is an indispensable daily tool, so camera film died a dead. It's still being made, or at least slowly repackaged from existing stocks, but it will never be cheaper than it was in the early 2000s. I'm digressing here.

I think many poaters on Stereo Central are a lot farther gone than on SH.tv itself

It's best to detect the sarcasm but respond like it's sincere, everybody wins.

― Halfway there but for you

i've found that in order to really respond to anything as if it's sincere, i kind of have to _believe_ it's sincere. otherwise it's just meta-sarcasm.

I would hope in 170 pages it would be pointed out, no matter what media is used, it probably more important who is actually running the lathe to cut the new vinyl master.

Yeah pretty much. They're all good formats, how it's mastered matters a thousand times more.

512 pages into that monster thread about MoFi now, but I really appreciate the poster that dropped this nugget in the middle of it all:

Yes, but the most glaring takeaway is that nobody noticed. All those people with golden ears and impeccable gear profiles.

What a wonderful long troll game these MFs have played on the AAA-holes ;-)

if you were running an experiment to definitively prove that all stuff was fully bullshit you couldnt have set it up any better, its just so hilariously perfect

Spot on. It's a placebo effect. To be fair, yeah, there are differences you can hear, but after a certain point, they start claiming you can tell if this orange was growing on this tree or the one next to it.

And yet, audiophilia will continue. Monster Cable managed to survive that "we replaced an expensive Monster cable with a wire hanger and no one noticed" thing years ago. MFSL will probably issue a vague "we goofed, sort of" statement, wording will be slightly tweaked on their release announcements (from "All Analog! No Digital!" to "All Analog? No, Digital!"), and everything will continue on as if it never happened.

They already did:

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=529092975710629&set=a.524617522824841

We at Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab are aware of customer complaints regarding use of digital technology in our mastering chain. We apologize for using vague language, allowing false narratives to propagate, and for taking for granted the goodwill and trust our customers place in the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab brand.

We recognize our conduct has resulted in both anger and confusion in the marketplace. Moving forward, we are adopting a policy of 100% transparency regarding the provenance of our audio products. We are immediately working on updating our websites, future printed materials, and packaging — as well as providing our sales and customer service representatives with these details. We will also provide clear, specific definitions when it comes to Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab marketing branding such as Original Master Recording (OMR) and UltraDisc One-Step (UD1S). We will backfill source information on previous releases so Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab customers can feel as confident in owning their products as we are in making them.

We thank you for your past support and hope you allow us to continue to provide you the best-sounding records possible — an aim we've achieved and continue to pursue with pride.

Jim Davis
President, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab See less

xp - Yeah, apparently they've already started to tweak their new release descriptions. It will absolutely continue. Not only do the companies selling the snake oil have too much to lose at this point, but the buyers in are never going to willingly admit to being duped for tens of thousands of dollars.

They were probably on precarious ground, but I kind of liked MFSL in the late '00s through the mid '10s when you could count on all of their SACD's being marked down to $15 within six months of release, often with 20% off discount codes during the holidays.

(from "All Analog! No Digital!" to "All Analog? No, Digital!")

lol

Yeah pretty much. They're all good formats, how it's mastered matters a thousand times more.

It'll be easier to get their vinyl, that's for sure. Part of the reason they did DSD (maybe the biggest reason) is that labels don't want to let their masters out of their facility anymore. So the only way to go AAA is if they ask the label to create analog 1:1 copies for them, but then they have to admit they aren't cutting from the original master. I think that's what Hoffman's done in the past without telling anyone, at least with certain labels. He had to because of his reputation, but unfortunately MFSL are in the same boat now that Sony and at least one of the other majors won't let anyone check them out, regardless of their reputation.

The 40,000 copies of Thriller don't even drop til November haha

Yes, but the most glaring takeaway is that nobody noticed. All those people with golden ears and impeccable gear profiles.

i think this is a strawman point. i don't think i have heard anyone anywhere ever claim they can hear the difference between the source and a 4xDSD copy. that is a ginormous sample rate.

It's not about it being a valid point, it's more about dropping that into an audiophile forum where members very frequently brag about how great their ears are and watching the outraged reactions. It's A++++ trolling.

i guess. i am from a pre-trolling generation and don't really get the point of goading people for things they haven't asserted. seems trumpish. i do get irony though. usually.

Not usually a big fan of purposeful trolling either, but there is a really self-serious element over on those forums that berates people on the regular for daring to comment on sound quality without "good" equipment. I have no problem with those folks getting their noses tweaked from time to time.

i hear you. my age would make be a logical candidate for that forum but those guys lack poetry and remind me too much of the hard realities of life.

i do think the redbook cd standard kind of stinks though, which gets me in trouble here. they're not using 4xDSD for nothing.

I was under the impression that no format current exists to take advantage of 4xDSD's resolution - like they still have to downsample it quite a bit for even current SACD. I wonder if a higher resolution digital format will ever happen - given the state of the market, SACD and Blu-ray feel like the end of the line.

*currently

also *physical digital format

i understand they are making physical <<trigger warning>> MQAs.

which hits the trifecta: digital, lossy, and proprietary. they are supposed to sound great though. i've never heard that format.

it's perfectly fair to nail MoFi on this for false or misleading advertising, and MoFi should be chagrined and embarrassed. That said, I also agree that in most cases it's doubtful anyone could actually hear a difference.

"the only way to go AAA is if they ask the label to create analog 1:1 copies for them, but then they have to admit they aren't cutting from the original master. I think that's what Hoffman's done in the past without telling anyone, at least with certain labels"

I believe he took his name off the Joy Division reissues because of this situation.

How has no one made a Garfield joke yet

we should mail all the tapes to Abu Dhabi?

so maybe the wrong place to ask this (and please lmk if so) BUT—

what about old mofi pressings? like late 70s/early 80s? has doubt been cast onto those as well, now?

(i have a few. they sound fine. never really compared side by side with regular pressings though.)

my age would make be a logical candidate for that forum but those guys lack poetry and remind me too much of the hard realities of life.

late 70's / early 80's pressings presumably wouldn't have digital involved since it didn't/barely existed at that time. who knows about the provenance of the tapes though

Austin, michael fremer has some interesting history about that on his youtube channel

xpost heh which one?

the guy who made the original video, from what I gather he has been steadfastly pro-analog and anti-digital due to some kind of misshapen Van Halen brown m&m logic: AAA is better because there are more hoops you have to jump through and so it “forces” you to be more thoughtful about what you’re doing. whatever, this is a problem for rich people with high end playback systems.

I don't know about but MOFI but I've read that use of a digital delay for preview at the cutting stage has been standard for vinyl since the "early 80s." Not sure how standard by when exactly but the system was introduced in 1979. Certainly the audio on most regular vinyl cuts from the mid 80s would have gone through a digital stage and back before hitting the lacquer xps

Links via the hoff forums -

1979 advert and patent for the Ampex Audio Digital Delay -

https://reel2reeltexas.com/vinAd79AmpexATR100ADD1.jpg
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4348754

man, into the dumpster with my depeche mode records.

For a messageboard that will spend whole pages correcting the most trivial minutiae, I'm shocked that no one has stepped up to right this wrong:

https://i.imgur.com/HumHUMP.png

The old MFSL records are sought after, somewhat, but I don't think they'd qualify as grail pressings to anyone really. They were limited enough that those versions of sought-after catalog titles command a premium, eg. Beatles/Stones, etc. But any vintage Dark Side of the Moon or Sticky Fingers is going to be sought after.e Also, if you actually look at their discography, they did a huge amount of essentially dollar records- Crusaders, Joe Sample, etc- worth almost nothing, audiophile version or not.

The most valuable MFSLs are the old UHQRs which are pretty rare, but more often than not newer pressings like the One Step boxes especially the Santana, Sea Change, the newer Grateful Dead ones, etc. I think theres a more recent REM pressing that's surprisingly valuable (surprising because its one of the more common 80s records, I can't remember which one). Overall though, at least for the classic rock and jazz titles, the MFSL isn't anywhere even close to the most valuable/sought after versions of those records. I'd say the mono Freewheelin Bob Dylan at 45 RPM is one of the best sounding records I've ever heard, though.

I work at a record store and the Hoffman People IRL show their hands rather quickly. I do appreciate one regular customer who trades in whatever "secret hot stamper" flavor of the month weirdo international pressing when he ostensibly isn't that impressed by it... yes, afraid I do get my jollies via Chilean Beatles and Dutch Bowie pressings.

I guess Justin Perkins (Tommy Stinson's bassist and mastering engineer for the Replacements box sets) is the latest professional to get fed up with the nuts on the forum. Both his account and his posts are now all deleted.

There's currently a thread vigorously arguing that Robin Trower is "Stoner Rock" just as much as Kyuss etc

I mean, these are arguments I've never even considered and would be willing to read, like, one post about — not 37 pages.

A certain banned ilxor has spent about 38 pages of the current Blur thread demanding no one enjoys The Magic Whip

That sucks about Perkins, I remember him getting bent out of shape by some assholes about the latest Replacements box and someone kept insisting that they were done against the wishes of the band.

I check on that place once a day because they sometimes get news first or they'll have info about sales or whatever, but it's so exasperating. Definitely the vibe of being in an overpriced record store with a bunch of dudes nerding out on the Beatles and joking about how rap music is more like crap music.

There is a reggae thread on there that is drama free and chock full of great info.

I have been really getting my Hoffman hate on reading the stereocentral forums lately. Neat!

also, I think someone not entirely benign has been uploading photos of him on his discogs “artist” page

A certain banned ilxor has spent about 38 pages of the current Blur thread demanding no one enjoys The Magic Whip

loool i'm so curious about this but i need to be strong

I wonder if it's the ex ilxor who went on there and carried on about this being a board full of "not very nice people"

wait where is that blur thread

my favorite hoffman threads now are the album by album/song by song threads, there is good discussion in them, minimal griping about mastering versions, minimal threadcraps, and I always wind up appreciating something new.

the KLF discography thread is outstanding, it should be a damn book

no but seriously on the song by song threads! like lets discuss songs sometimes rather than pressings

Hoffman boards also got a lot more tolerable when I decided to liberally mute posters. There are a fair number of outright completely insane people on there, particularly in the beatles threads (that run up to Now and Then was torture, some utterly obsessed morons posting like a hundred times a day with outsized entitlement enraged when the announcement didn't drop the day they hoped...it was nuts)

A certain banned ilxor has spent about 38 pages of the current Blur thread demanding no one enjoys The Magic Whip

You can't leave it at that tbh.

i must be looking at the wrong blur threads

funny because even the Veikko's Blur forums had someone a bit like that at one stage.

I like the idea of the song-by-song threads but as they're so huge my lamentable tuning-out point is usually when I can predict for miles when the majority of them dislike something that I like. 'Oh, of course there's few kind words for "Fireplace" and "Lightnin' Hopkins"' etc.

Hoffman boards also got a lot more tolerable when I decided to liberally mute posters.

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm)

so much for the tolerant left

(it's a pun, i'm making a bad pun)

A certain banned ilxor has spent about 38 pages of the current Blur thread demanding no one enjoys The Magic Whip

You can't leave it at that tbh.

― Free Ass Ange (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 December 2023 16:43 bookmarkflaglink

I'm assuming a 90s video game

Me too.

Oh wow, I didn't realize that's where the name came from...did a Google search and oh yeah ads for that were all over my early '90s comics.

This isn’t Metal Geir Solid, is it?

i'm assuming it's Universal Soldier for the Sega Megadrive

sorry I hate when people do this so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turrican

(by do this I meant posting cryptic stuff like I just did before)

Lol, that was actually my first guess, just based on the description of the argument style, without any knowledge of the video game.

had no idea that user was banned here and can't even recall what he did that might have been an issue. but I will say that the Magic Whip was better than I thought it would be when I finally listened to it

I think they just got FPd and never came back, don't think it was a permaban?

shhhhhh

Nah, I think he was permabanned, he'd moved through being merely annoying to being downright obnoxious and eventually on to some unpleasant personal attacks. Plus I have some memory of him branching out from ILM towards the end of his tenure and holding some pretty dodgy opinions on various subjects.

He was banned because he became unhinged at the end.

Or what Tom said

ah fair enough - that all sounds right, I just thought it was a 51 and he realised he wasn't welcome here

sorry I hate when people do this so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turrican

― Colonel Poo

awww that takes all the fun out of it

https://segaretro.org/Universal_Soldier

ahh, good ol turricunt. i fp`d him every time he posted, whether or not it was objectionable... mostly because he was posting the shit that tom alluded to and because he was just kind of a rude person without any self-awareness. i was actively campaigning to be unreasonably rude because what comes around goes around, bitchass. good riddance.

i haven't read this but it's about a guy who spends $1M on his stereo and pissed his family off. wasn't sure where to drop it but here seems like a good fit!

https://i.imgur.com/9PpfeuQ.png

here is a free/gift link:
https://wapo.st/47ErwZI

damn, what a sad story :(

i posted it this morning on the continuing with CDs thread with the youtube doc. the doc gives even more insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b2IOOhJmxw

someone actually bought those gigantic custom speakers!

The 10-foot-tall speakers? After 18 bids, an Indiana man named Carlton Bale snagged all three for $10,100. Less than you’d pay for a pair of Yamaha NS-5000 bookshelf speakers.

A fan of Fritz’s YouTube documentary, Bale had set out a couple of years ago to build what he imagined would be “the second-best loudspeaker in the world” — until he heard about the Fritz auction.

“I thought, ‘Do I really have the time to build the speakers I want that probably aren’t going to sound as good as the ones Ken built?’” Bale recently recalled, after driving to Virginia with a U-Haul to fetch them last month. The price, he conceded, was “a steal. The bargain of a lifetime.”

That story is some genuinely tragic shit, just a man truly brought down by an obsession. Every so often I'll read one of these types of stories and while they vary in the extremes, usually at the end I wind up thinking, wouldn't I rather just have a well curated CD collection that would cost a fraction of that and maybe bring me equivalent joy, or perhaps more joy albeit considerably less cool points? Just the sheer expense and unpredictability of vinyl is wearying. Probably part of it is how so many record stores don't do anything for me at all, it's rare that I walk into one and it's an amazing experience. I know that's probably just me and my own particular tastes and preferences though.

Has relates to the thread subject, once I read a thread titled something like, "does your spouse share your music taste?" and one answer was something like, "she never wants to listen to the same music as I do. Sometimes I wish I just lived all alone." :/

ouch.

perfect sound forever, though!

Thx for the gift link. A good reminder of “the important things in life,” I guess…

usually at the end I wind up thinking, wouldn't I rather just have a well curated CD collection that would cost a fraction of that and maybe bring me equivalent joy, or perhaps more joy albeit considerably less cool points?

This is me, basically. To look at how many records and CDs I own, a person might assume I'd have a top-of-the-line system to play it on, but nope. I always went for "decent," and when I couldn't afford decent, I just acquired hand-me-downs and bought Goodwill stuff, and I've never felt any particular urge to upgrade my system. It isn't that I don't think I'd enjoy having a nice setup, but, to your point, there are about a hundred things I would rather spend my limited disposable income on than audiophile equipment - like CDs and records, for example.

It’s almost as if you like music rather than equipment. Crazy!

My entire audio setup has been cobbled together from various sources. My wife's Teac amp, my Project Debut III, a pair of Bowers and Wilkins matrix speakers I won in a weird work raffle a dozen years ago, plus my Onkyo single CD player. I definitely have a few friends who have gone for really really pricey equipment, like thousands of dollars, and I just can't do it. I mean it would be a financial stretch and psychologically I'd feel like I was getting conned somehow. I think the audiophile snake oil thread has me paranoid!

I mean I do love vinyl records obv. right now I'm listening to the led Zeppelin self-titled, the triple vinyl reissue from a few years back, and it sounds pretty great. Just don't tell me that actually there's this 1985 pressing exclusive to Japan that's really the best one haha.

But there's something about the simple pleasure of driving around with my kid listening to the first cracker CD, which I found for two bucks and bought because he's really into them and CVB now. That also sounds great!

. My wife's Teac amp, my Project Debut III, a pair of Bowers and Wilkins matrix speakers I won in a weird work raffle a dozen years ago, plus my Onkyo single CD player. I definitely have a few friends who have gone


^this is all really good stuff I bet it sounds great

I also have a pretty mid-fi setup. I live in a studio apartment on a road with plentiful traffic, and with the clanking trucks and car subwoofers rattling my windows, the best way to improve my setup would be to move. But I have cheap rent and am within walking distance of my job and most necessities, so it's hard to give those things up in pursuit of optimal listening conditions.

a pair of Bowers and Wilkins matrix speakers I won in a weird work raffle a dozen years ago

I got a pair of B&W headphones for Christmas, they're outstanding.

Haha I don't work there anymore but basically the guy who ran the company was emptying out his house of all this gear he had, it was a whole mess of laser disc players and DirecTV boxes, plus those speakers. We each got a ticket and then the numbers were called, I was called third. I took the speakers not having looked at them closely but needing better ones than the thrift store fodder ones I owned. They're the matrix 804. Couldn't believe it when I saw what they were and when I looked them up.

Holy moley

“I need you to die slow, m-----f-----,” he told his father. “Die slow.”

If you ever wade through the Hoffman forum, the pathological toxicity on display in that article becomes no surprise. I mean, I care about good sound, but I care about it as much as I care about good-tasting food and act accordingly. Imagine if you treated your meals the way a hot-stamp, one-step lunatic treats their music listening.

As he got older, Fritz sometimes wondered if he could have made space within his own vast ambitions to consider other people’s goals and wishes.

Huh, yeah.

man if I was Kurt I'd have peaced on Fritz so many more years earlier, idk how he lasted that long.

I think that people predisposed to this kind of obsessiveness will find and object of obsession not sure it's much to do with stero equipment at the end of the day

oh yeah, I mean you could pretty much substitute "restoring a classic car" and it would it fine

*fit

Find any collectible, and you'll find the extreme end of obsessiveness. I probably have the low end version of that genetic predisposition, I used to collect baseball cards when I was a teenager, and definitely enjoy having a large library of books. But I'm also someone who hates to have overflowing shelves so I'm kind of self-limiting there. When things start to overflow, I start to sell or trade in.

I wonder how many people who post on that forum are dudes.

I knew a guy once who used to frequent the local record store. Fussy collector dude, we all know the type. Anyway, one day he announced to us that his wife was pregnant, but he made her promise to keep the news from her family until after Christmas because he didn't want all the Christmas gifts they received to be for the baby. I've never forgotten that.

The guy in this article reminds me of that guy

I seem to have an innate feeling of unease whenever the amount of time/energy I devote to anything, an activity, a hobby, collecting something, etc, start to creep up. it just kind of instinctively makes me take a pause. that's not necessarily a 'good' thing in that it usually happens even when I'm healthily enjoying something, but it's why for instance I sold my Xbox One. just one weekend of spending like ten hours in front of it and I was unnerved by how much time I'd easily wasted.

xp jfc

see also Walter Benjamin's writing on the obsession behind collecting: https://www.nypl.org/blog/2020/10/26/walter-benjamin-history-collections-and-archives

My dad's most treasured collection was his record collection. He had about 4000.

He gave them all up without hesitation when mom pointed out they didn't have the space and they needed the money they could get unloading it

Never complained about it once afterwards.

Things are just objects

Even more damning is this line from that article:

Was it truly “wow?” Or merely loud?

The goal was never worth it to begin with, but he ended up torching everyone close to him for literally nothing.

and following on from that, "maybe he had it on the wrong setting" because there are so many variables he can't even keep track any more

The part that really got me was how his kid, who had for decades helped him work on it probably at the expense of his own sanity and life, just wanted to stay up and listen to some music on it and he wouldn't let him do it. He made that kid toil away for something and wouldn't even let him experience it.

Yeah. It was a layup and he still fucked it up

Fritz is a dud

I wonder how many people who post on that forum are dudes.

I've seen maybe three women total post on there, so, basically all of them. and when a woman starts posting the amount of obsessive attention she gets is cringeworthy, particularly if she posts in a Rush thread or something.

Whenever I lurk there I feel like "the kid" (I'm in my late forties)

https://stereocentral.freeforums.net

Imagine if you treated your meals the way a hot-stamp, one-step lunatic treats their music listening.

I feel seen.

My dad's most treasured collection was his record collection. He had about 4000.

He gave them all up without hesitation when mom pointed out they didn't have the space and they needed the money they could get unloading it

Never complained about it once afterwards.

Things are just objects

― Disco Biollante (Neanderthal)

This - and post above - both contain heaps of cautionary wisdom for me, a male human who has had bad collector brain since childhood (was it Star Wars toys? Doctor Who books? Bubblegum cards? It was some fucking thing that did it).

I actually feel really fortunate to have lived in the time of eBay, cos 20 years ago when it was still new and nifty to sell things globally I tried it out - and found both financial and karmic reward from selling stuff - and that opened up a life-saving little neural pathway

Still a terrible accumulator though - recently have been looking at my record collection and thinking that if liquidated it is probably a decent overseas holiday for my family - if not more - and once you put it in those terms (and consider that there’s only a finite amount of above-ground time…)

* ”post above” = previous Neanderthal post re unease about collecting impulse

I sold the majority of my record and CD collection because I was moving in with a woman and just wouldn’t have the space and didn’t want to move it either. Most of 30+ years of accumulation. I regret it sometimes, but not a lot.

https://i.imgur.com/Rkxu5nw.png

The elderly audiophile story is extra sad because that guy probably hasn't been able to hear above 12k since the mid '80s.

I wonder what the newest album in his collection was? Mentioned are the Countours (1962). I can just barely make out mid-80s Moody Blues and Kinks live albums from the spine. I would love it if he had like, a Target-exclusive color of Miss Anthropocene in there.

mid-80s Moody Blues

I can't imagine anyone with those albums having decent taste in anything later on.

the classics are the folks who buy whatever sounds good from an audiophile perspective rather than having personal taste.

you either buy equipment to listen to your favorite music or buy music to listen to your favorite equipment.

"In Your Wildest Dreams" is great

that was a favorite when I was a kid, used to enjoy that one coming on 105.1 while cruising in the back seat of the station wagon

Oof, I don’t know…it kind of sounds like something that could’ve been a theme song to a family-friendly sci-fi show from that era. Which to be fair, could be a great thing to some, but it’s not to my taste.

I <3 ums, my musical doppelganger.

Another vote for IYWD. It was clinched for me one night when these 2 ancient hippies got up at the open mic I was hosting & played a rickety, broken-down but heartfelt version. Agreed the production is of its time — in a way that isn’t necessarily flattering.

As a kid I liked "The Voice" more than "IYWD" — it's got kind of an Ultravox vibe. I thought they were a New Wave band!

TIL!

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cecilia-ann-by-the-pixies-yes-i-wrote-recorded-the-song-as-the-surftones-with-my-buddy-frosty.272578/

When two cranks collide.

<3 PBKR us Moodheads need to stay together

Late to this but long distance voyager is at least 60% of a great album

TIL!

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cecilia-ann-by-the-pixies-yes-i-wrote-recorded-the-song-as-the-surftones-with-my-buddy-frosty.272578🕸/

big dust up over there yesterday in a now deleted thread where Hoffman initially stated that Palestinian flags were no longer allowed to be used in avatars; this quickly turned into both Palestinian and Israeli flags, but not until a few european racists showed their faces by declaring arabs and immigrants rapists and criminals. Lots of people said he may as well ban all flags as avatars if he's going to do this, as well as Putin and Zelinsky avatars (I don't recall anyone ever having a non-funny Putin avatar there but there were certainly some very strong Roger Waters proponents who piped up). Within about 12 hours the entire thread was deleted. Not sure what the policy is now.

I'm guessing no flags.

Better option: no avatars

every avatar needs to just be steve hoffman with a shakti hallograph stick

steve hoffman being zionist actually WAS on my 2024 bingo card

As I read on that dedicated H0ffman burn forum, apparently H0ffman's wife is super hardcore MAGA.

oh whats that forum spill the beans

Thought that was mentioned upthread, but just google "st3r3oc3ntral" obvs with the proper replacements there. Be forewarned, it can be a little toxic at times, but they do a good job of calling out the general misogyny and racism that can run rampant at H0ffman.

thankkkk youuuu

The existence of a Steve Hoffman burn forum is extremely 1999, love it

haha Pitchfork Reviews Steve Hoffman

I hate to ask, but is Hoffman's wife super MAGA nuttery visible somewhere on the web? I was under the impression he was very much anti-MAGA so that must be weird.

But yeah, quite a few reactionary nuts and even actual Nazis on that forum. I think they're clearly in the minority, but really fucking sad when they pop up and pledge allegiance to Trump or spew their vile racist shit about immigrants and minorities. IIRC one of the mods "Dave" had some really disgusting anti-Asian immigrant rants that have since been deleted.

I don't know, just taking it on face value from the posters over there - they are very often digging up (to an uncomfortable degree!) real world links and photos of notorious H0ffman posters, so I'm sure they've sourced something.

Hoffman appears to be vaguely on the left when he posts on Twitter

The rival board mentioned above - it can at times be very amusing, but some of the people there are so consumed by hate for all things SH.tv that they frequently come across as far more pitiful than the goofballs they make fun of

Yeah, was gonna say, the one thread I looked at on SC was full of far more reprehensibly misogynistic shit than anything I've ever seen lurking SHF.

Some on SC just seem to wallow in being as negative about pretty much all rock and pop music to the extent that I think: what exactly is the difference between this and the negativity/narrow mindedness/inability to just enjoy music on the Hoffman board? That ‘sacred cows’ revered on SH.tv are finally getting put in their place? Who gives a crap?

The rival board mentioned above - it can at times be very amusing, but some of the people there are so consumed by hate for all things SH.tv that they frequently come across as far more pitiful than the goofballs they make fun of

That’s what’s great. The kind of posting forged in the fires of Usenet insanity.

Steve Hoffman and forums, the two things I hate
USEnet and insanity, the two things that's great

Finding a super-active Free Forum or usenet group feels so bizarre in 2024. Of course it's filled with completely off-the-chart non-linear obsessional derision and hate. 50/50 chance of one of them self-actualizing into something involving guns.

SC is nuts, there's a 271 page thread bashing just one Hoffman forum member's original music.

They also get very upset indeed at the likes of very obvious, albeit subtle trolls like S.P. Honeybunch who provides excellent discussions like these

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/in-1992-did-nirvana-and-pearl-jams-successes-hurt-emi-usa-modern-rock-promotional-efforts-for-emf.1178741/

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/fine-young-cannibals-rock-n-roll-hall-of-fame.1159561/

Yeah, I'm not defending SC really, it's pretty toxic and creepy at times, but every now and then I like to duck in and see how they puncture the self-seriousness of H0ffman.

it’s horrifying and compelling

otm

lol, PaulTMA. those are good finds

SC has some great display names too ... Norman 'Whiplash' Mailer is art

it’s mostly straight up bullying tbh but it does call out right wing bullshit and shady Steve stuff

an all-time favourite
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/hows-about-one-last-beatles-concert.367997/

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/was-madonnas-papa-dont-preach-influenced-by-the-jefferson-airplanes-papa-john-creach.885388/page-3

And John Lennon's hologram can be beamed down from a Pred ship