Santigold

I really like the Switch & Graeme Remix of "You'll Find a Way" - that groove is insane. It does sound a lot like M.I.A., but more because of the production (funny that) than Santogold herself, who for some reason reminds me of Nicolette.

Okay so on "Creator" she does sound a *lot* like M.I.A.

Holy shit is that "LES Artistes" song amazing. I don't hear M.I.A. there (more like a kind of recent Nelly Furtado over indie rock on that one); but I haven't heard any other Santogold songs yet. I can't stop playing "LES Artistes," though. It's just huge.

she's totally rad. it's half electro shit (of course its gonna sound like MIA, its Switch and Diplo produced) and half more rockish shit (like "LES Artistes").

Yeah, now that I've heard a few more tracks, it sort of reminds me of Robyn (not how it actually sounds, mind you) - where most tracks are electro-pop like "Handle Me" but then something like the original version of "Bum Like You" pops up.

"Creator" sounds so much like MIA I have not listened to anything else, sorry. Maybe I should?

Oh, I am not saying that in a good way either. Imho sounding just like old MIA is not praiseworthy, whether or not you like old MIA (and I do).

Yeah, I just heard "Creator" and it's preposterous. But listen to "LES Artistes," seriously! It doesn't sound like M.I.A. at all, and it's really great. The rest of the songs I'm not nuts about... I suppose it's weird to be psyched about an artist who only has one song you like, but that song rules.

"L.E.S. Artistes" almost sounds like an old Altered Images album cut or something.

Hello Santogold, you are my nu favorite!

so am i the only one who thinks l.e.s. artistes sounds like a fucking yeah yeah yeahs song

or the police

or tegan and sara

or gahbage

XXXChange mix of LES Artistes on pinglewood.com rools

the voice remainds me of Tegan & Sara (and to a lesser extent Karen O) too

This XXXChange mix IS the shit! She does sound too much like M.I.A. for my liking, but I think if she stays more on the 'alternative' side of things and less involved making club tracks she might be good ... leave that to the remixers.

Her voice reminds me of early Sting :-)

(first impression: album seems pretty great)

doh

or the police

-- mat lewis, Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:58 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Link

Mat Lewis OTM, obv.

oh, it only seemed pretty great the first listen. Half decent, second track = favourite, other than that, meh.

I love 'LES Artistes'. Listening to the album now, seems OK at first.

i love the rock tracks on this and the synthy ballads. the rap tracks, less so. great production though.

What is this about her writing and/or producing on that Res album I loved so much?

she did the best songs on it - golden boys, they say vision and a few others.

deeply offended by jodorowsky-ripoff video for "creator"

Have you seen the MGMT video? IT's all "The Holy Mountain."

which indie band will have the balls to take on "Santa Sangre"?

i like this album

she's good

i'm actually as confused as i am offended.

the difference between the jodorowsky and santogold versions is that jodorowsky sped his film up and the santogold director did slow-mo. and the jodorowsky is in sunlight and the santogold is washed out.

which basically explains why the jodorowsky version is about x1000 more graphic, shocking, beautiful, etc. but doesn't explain why the santogold director made the choices he/she did. why?

i dunno, i can't even take a picture right with an autofocus digital camera so maybe i shouldn't be criticizing video directors but there you go.

So Missing Persons.

EXACTLY
Enjoyable tho'.

Missing Persons OTM.

Fun record, meh on repeat.

I enjoyed this on first listen - the more rocky/dubby and the less MIA she sounds the better really.

Are there any other songs that sound like "L.E.S. Artistes"?

Santogold herself, who for some reason reminds me of Nicolette

Yes.

The album sounds pretty good on first listen.

from this thread i gather that Santogold sounds like everyone but herself. is this a fair conclusion?

I saw Santogold on Jools Holland the other night.

I didn't quite work out what she sounded like but I failed to detect an identifiable Santogold in her performance.

However, Jools Holland seems to have that levelling effect on everyone who comes on his show.

She certainly needs to stop singing with her left eyebrow, however.

Oh god I've just realised I like the ones that sound like straight-ahead 4AD indie the best.

does anyone know the deal with the Disco D beat on here?

I just bought this album via my iPhone! Let's see if I like it...

(first impression of the first song: "Oh, it's Gwen Stefani on quaaludes!")

Gwen Stefani on quaaludes!

whooaaaa watch out there i might have to go rub one out

Yeah, this is basically like listening to No Doubt with all of the ska influences removed. Or, maybe the better way to put it is if they had come from Brooklyn instead of the OC.

(I am not in the anti-No Doubt posse, btw, so I'm not trying to slam this)

okay song 4 is where it turns into Missing Persons, now I get it

okay song 5 is where people say she's M.I.A.-esque

ps song 5 ("Creator") IS FUCKING GREAT HOLY SHIT WOW

It's so weird to see/hear "Creator" in a tv beer ad, although I can't figure out why I'd be surprised by any music/commercial pairing in 2008.

from what I've heard Santogold > No Doubt (but I'm not a ND fan)

"No Doubt with all of the ska influences removed."

no theres one track with some rubbish dub influence on it and another which is kinda ska-punky. i like these tracks best although i think id like them more if the production was a bit less 'neat'. the rap tracks i like musically though, just not vocally.

I think what I was going for is that the influences seem much closer to the original source, ie it's proper dub/reggae influence rather than influence via the filter of someone else reinterpreting it through a rock filter.

"Lights Out" is super Missing Persons-esque.

okay the first few seconds of "Starstruck" are great

also yes, this woman is totally from the Gwen Stefani school of vocal production

"You'll Find A Way" is MELTING MY FACE

(I should point out I mean the Switch remix of "You'll Find A Way" here.)

You say Gwen Stefani, I say Cyndi Lauper.

Her voice is way, way, WAY deeper than Cyndi Lauper's (not that this really contradicts my point as you can argue pretty convincingly that all three of them sing in a very similar, muscular manner).

"ie it's proper dub/reggae influence rather than influence via the filter of someone else reinterpreting it through a rock filter."

thats weird cos i think that dubby tune is VERY dub-via-rock-filter.

This is totally splitting hairs, but I agree that the end tune is dub-via-rock. It sound to me like it got there via familiarity with dub rather than familiarity with other dub-via-rock acts (ie, it's closer to the source but it is still totally dub-via-rock).

L.E.S. verses have the cadence of Voices Carry, before breaking into a full on Dale Bozzio.

What does everyone think of her cover of Pretty Green on Mark Ronson's album? It's kind of silly but I like it. And L.E.S. Artistes is epic.

I'm so over this before it started. Santogold is kind of shit, no?

This album is amazing in the sunshine.

Okay, way better than I expected. Why didn't someone tell me that only one of her songs was a half-rate MIA knockoff?

A very nice, reasonably original pop album. Don't know how much longevity it'll have, though.

Anyone else find it slightly reminiscent of Blondie, in spirit and attitude if not actual sound?

BTW, whoever said her voice is more Furtado than Stefani is OTM.

furtado voice - stefani/no doubt music. i like it, great songs, but its a bit lightweight.

"You'll Find a Way" is the free iTunes download this week... and it DOES have some No Doubt pseudo-ska-ness about it, at least in the verses. (I like it).

She sounds super-Furtado on this one, too - it's how her voice goes subtly nasal on the higher notes, I think.

seeing as we're just throwing in more and more female vocalists, Cyndi Lauper

she must be a big blondie/pretenders fan.

blueski i said that already keep up!

Cyndi Lauper was already brought up way upthread. (xpost HA)

I do hear the Furtado in there, it's just that with the music I instantly jumped to Stefani. Nelly is more accurate, tho.

The video for "L.E.S. Artistes" is pretty creepy.

There is a huge billboard at the Chiswick roundabout going onto the A4 that I pass on my bus into work, and it's incredibly striking - they did the whole vomiting glitter thing from the album cover with real glitter, and everyone stares at it when we drive past.

I was just in "Zavvi" and they were playing something v MIA-ish, I wonder if that was Santogold. It was quite good though, whatever it was.

i like this album. everybody's already cited all the influences that hit me the first time through, so i'll just say i like it.

blueski i said that already keep up!

sorry. Danielle Brisbois then.

Karen O.

Are people saying Karen O because of the NYC thing? Or is it the disquieting video thing? Vocally, they sound nothing alike.

I still stand by my Clare Grogan comparison way upthread.

HI DERE it's like when somebody reminds you of someone without really looking like them.

plus the general vibe of 'L.E.S. Artistes' did remind me of some YYYs

Okay, I really hope someone decides Portishead and Santogold should tour together.

i think the best songs on res' album are better than the best songs on this.

I haven't heard the Res album in full but the songs I have heard were awesome.

best songs to get - golden boys, they say vision, and the hidden track, say what you wanna (or say say say - i dont know what the real title is, but its awesome).

the songs were a bit stronger/less 'fizzy' than those on the new one.

I've heard the first two and... "Let Love"? Whatever the name of the one that sampled "Other Voices" by The Cure was.

I like the Santogold album, but "Golden Boys" and "They Say Vision" really do blow it out of the water. I'd probably like this album even more if it was sung by Res.

i like this album a lot and i think shes a great songwriter/melodocist but its just a bit lightweight overall, from the lyrics to the production. am seeing her live in a few weeks though -i wonder what shes like live.

i like this album a lot and i think shes a great songwriter/melodocist but its just a bit lightweight overall

Pretty much my feelings exactly.

This is good because she is lightweight.

but its also a bit too safe. i would love to hear her demos of they say vision and golden boys since she says she never liked docs production for res (i didnt much like it either but on those two songs its great).

what are the best res tracks?

First listen: "Hm. Not bad at all. I can see why people like this. Sounds a bit like X, Y, and Z, tho."

Step 2: File away in brain for later listening, perhaps on a sunny day.

Step 3: Forget it exists, don't miss it for a second.

I think she'll need to inject a heavy dose of weird if album no 2's to make much of an impression. The most memorable tracks here tend to be the more off-kilter ones (Creator, My Superman).

So, who's a comparable "heavy weight"?

I prefer her when she's just being pop rock. The 'weirder' tracks are the least successful here IMO, Creator is okay but the others are all skippable. She'll need to get some better producers in if she's going to go down that road on album two (the Switch remix of You'll Find A Way towers above everything else here).

(the Switch remix of You'll Find A Way towers above everything else here)

Before seeing the video to "L.E.S. Artistes", I would have agreed with this.

Conversely the rock tracks are actually really well produced, so clean sounding!

Phew - nobody's called her hip-hop or r&b on here yet, have they?

http://www.drownedinsound.com/articles/3331048

wau, the comments

Gwen Stefani on quaaludes!

whooaaaa watch out there i might have to go rub one out

-- chinchillas they can fit on gorillas, Thursday, 8 May 2008 20:10 (1 week ago) Link

amazing post

man dude's only been on here for like 4 months and he's already talking about mastrubating

Say Aha kinda reminds me of Diamonds & Guns

Quite like this, I think it'll be a grower.

Oh and the track I heard in the shop and thought might be Santogold was Creator!

she can complain that its racist to talk about the black music influences on the album but helloooo, she IS rapping. she even called it rapping in an interview i read (just in case she thinks its something else).

saw her live tonight. a bit underwhelming. shes obv really trying to do this whole hollertronix-ish thing so instead of a band she had a deejay who still thinks its novel to do things like blend sucker mcs with this charming man. she just sung over instrumentals of the album, which was cool for a bit - shes a good performer/vocalist on stage, and she had two cool robo-dancers with her, but i feel like a chump paying 10-12 quid for a glorified club PA.

like a chump heeeeeeey

i read that in the tune of like a pimp.

Yeah, I'd much rather see her with a band.

is this chick the same santi white who was on the gza joint

Idolator sez yes -- and I would link the story but the site seems to be down at present.

the first five tracks of this album are amazing and then it just dies suddenly. i love how cleanly produced it is, you can hear everything.

the song she wrote w/ashlee simpson is even better though.

She sounds close to MIA in the same way that Duffy sounds similar to Amy Winehouse but there are subtle differences....of which I am not eloquent enough to explore. I personally prefer MIA as she's more 'global' but Santogold makes a great club joint.

She has more songs that sound like No Doubt than songs that sound like MIA.

I think I'm in the "her best songs yet were on the Res album" camp.

somehow i thought id posted here already but yeah i agree

I really, really, really, really, REALLY like "You'll Find A Way", perhaps to an unhealthy degree (particularly the original version; the remix is killer but the arrangement of the original is a million times more exciting in the long run).

lyrics are a bit vague like a lot of modern pop/rock lyrics seem to be.

Surprised how often I come back to this record - there are three absolute clunkers (Superman, Starstruck, Unstoppable), the rest is tremendous.

I can't get "Lights Out" out of my head.

Sometimes "Superman" is awesome, though (particularly when I'm in the mood to hear "Red Light" by Siouxsie and the Banshees but too lazy to pull out Kaleidescope).

hah - otm - it's uncanny

I like Superman. Unstoppable is pretty annoying, though.

"Unstoppable" is probably my favorite song on the record.

I pretty much like all the songs to varying degrees - there's nothing that I have to skip.

i like both slow songs superman and the other one. i love im a lady but the little britain sketch with the drag queen keeps popping up in my head when i hear it.

"lyrics are a bit vague like a lot of modern pop/rock lyrics seem to be."

It bugs me how much is just, like, indie workout affirmations. "You'll Find a Way," "Shove It," "Unstoppable," they all sound like they were written after reading the lyrics to that song from Karate Kid, "You're the best/around/nothing's gonna ever keep you down…"

i love the album, and return to it a lot, but yeah the lyrical vagueness just makes it a bit substance-less. not much meat there. and im still annoyed at the live show. and the crap they played before she came on.

http://postyourgirls.com/jun08/26/05/03.jpg

naked santogold forbidden :(

juno8

just youtubed lights out, it is so lovely. i love it. i can't help myself but to try to sing with her some back vocals during the chorus. i also just saw a video of Unstoppable (live) wow she looks so much like my big sister from côte d'ivoire she'll get a kick out of this i think

very into it

i still haven't heard anything by her

would I like her or?

whats the one song to check out

i'm not your man, i'm just checking out some links but from what i hear, i think you would be very pleased.

i guess ppl like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVIedQ88rxY lights out

wtf i need album pronto

!!

Creator check

I know I'm a little late to the whole thing but I have been listening to this non-stop lately. I love it.

i'm always late with this crap

Brainwasher: L.E.S. Artistes

that was the 1st one i listened to, is goood

also this

kudos bud light lime for your lights out

i was telling the man about this chick, and he said the nytimes just featured her in a "night out with the artist" thing

My friend played me Santogold last weekend, and we both pretty much agreed she sounds like a more indie version of Leila K:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibjZ3b7pkGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF4lk-MOd_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgbW1FxR78

I wonder if this intentional? One of the Santogold tunes even had this sort of quasi-Eurorapping that sounded somewhat like the dude on "Open Sesame".

"this is intentional"

Now if only she'd drop off the indie stuff and embrace Leila K style dance full on, I might actually fall in love with her.

Her indie stuff is actually fun to listen to, though.

I guess it is if you like indie, yeah.

evidently i went to school with this woman.

I don't consider myself an indie liker, and I think she's pretty good.

yeah even i like her! only indie music of any worth this year for sure

how could you forget your beloved Elbow?

i half-liked one song by them in like 2001

man santogold is indie in the loosest sense of the term

~you~ like los camesinos AND bloc party

<3 them

all im saying is santogold is indie in the internet sense of the term cuz she gets blogged next to the hold steady and mgmt but then again so do justice and i don't think a anyone is jumping to call them indie

not that any of that has anything to do with liking her (she's aaaaight-- i actually think the best song is the one with spank rock wtf) but i wouldn't go around touting this as "good" indie music just cuz she is on downtown records

I stayed away from this record for a while because I thought it was like Sublime or something (her name reminds me of "Santeria"), but I picked it up and it's badass. I can see why you'd think it's indie; the first track sounds like Interpol, but the record is all over the place stylistically.[/ obvious]

I'd call her art pop or something made-up like that.

ART POP?!?!?!?!

ok i am gonna give this a listen and then i am going to WEEP at you when it turns out to be COMPLETELY FUCKING COMMERCIAL

idk if im into getting into this with you louis, but why can't the two intersect

i totally call justice indie!

i call santogold indie b/c sonically that's what she is. bit of dub and so on thrown in there but it's essentially straight-up guitar indie music. which is fine, i love how cleanly produced everything is, and her voice really works.

art pop would work as well but then you'd just get people neyr-nyering about how "art pop" = indie! and they'd have a point

anyway i'm going to listen to this on the way to the pub now. or danity kane.

Hmm. IMO, anything that can conscionably append the 'art-' prefix to its method has to actually attempt an original artistic creation. Listening to 'Lights Out', I'm not getting a sense that this is being done as anything other than an exercise in MEGABUCKS. Sorry. It's nice, but it isn't artistic, or interesting.

Oh god, I'm addressing this to probably the last people on earth I'd want to be. Sorry, forget I ever posted here, go back unchallenged to your heroes.

damn lou you are on some 13 year old slipknot fan levels of "NO GOOD ART CAN TRY TO BE SUCCESSFUL" delusion

what a wally. altho re "commercial" it's done surprisingly well considering (#26 in the album chart, single one place lower). must be the indie.

And you are on some preschool point-missing levels of "WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THAT SOMETHING SOUNDS COMMERCIAL RATHER THAN ARTISTIC, HE IS NOT SAYING THAT A DIFFERENT SONG COULD FAIL MISERABLY IN THE CHARTS BECAUSE IT HAS ARTISTIC MERIT" xpost

Obviously I got carried away there and added a "NOT" in the middle. The above quote, then, is my own stance.

IMO, anything that can conscionably append the 'art-' prefix to its method has to actually attempt an original artistic creation.

This is easily the dumbest thing you have ever said.

Think what you're saying there Dan.

(Dumb from the standpoint is that you are criticizing this as if Santogold is marketing herself this way; she's not, you're reacting negatively to someone else's impression of her work and then blaming her for it.)

Hmm. IMO, anything that can conscionably append the 'art-' prefix to its method has to actually attempt an original artistic creation

you imply here that anything that aims to be commercially successful cannot be "art" or at least use the "art-" prefix

Well, I don't know what I'm trying to say. I disapprove of ANY use of "art-" as a musical prefix. But as a short-cut, I think it should only apply to things that attempt originality rather than facsimile.

I'm fucked off with this conversation now, and I'm fucked off with ILM.

Well good for you.

I'm in a fucking bad mood, I'd have never invaded this thread if I wasn't generally angry with more or less everything in my path. Sorry everyone.

When I mentioned "indie", what I meant is that I put artists like Santogold, or Justice, or Crystal Castles, or Hot Chip, or what have you, under the rough label of "indie disco" or "indie dance". Even when their music has nominally the same elements as "proper" (i.e. non-indie) dance music, there's something nervous and wiry and high-pitched and unfunky about them, and they often lack the life-affirming, bass-heavy, soulful and joyful qualities of dance music rooted in funk and disco and house. I think this is the reason indie and rock fans seem to like this sort of music and I often don't, even if it doesn't have any obvious "rock" elements like electric guitars.

LOOK OK FUCK GENRE TAGS

FUCK THEM

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/fast1727/CalvinHobbsCalmDown.jpg

Walking by myself down avenues that reek of time to kill

It seems like many of these indie dance acts need to have this edgy/brainy quality in their music to sell it to the intellectual type of indie fans, who might have diffculties dealing with the full-on mindless/physical abandon of proper dance music.

(xxx-post)

hey lets have an argument about if something is indie or not

It seems like many of these indie dance acts need to have this edgy/brainy quality in their music to sell it to the intellectual type of indie fans, who might have diffculties dealing with the full-on mindless/physical abandon of proper dance music.

or maybe they just love both strains equally so naturally want to incorporate elements and influences of both into their sound, gaining and losing in the process. it doesn't mean shit that it's not as funky as James Brown or as housey as Todd Terry as a result.

i love how cleanly produced everything is

this is a potential nightmare (for me) but a bit of expansion on this might be interesting. what is meant by clean? is it just everything in it's place according to your understanding/preferences? it's quite easy to imagine Santogold in a 'lo fi' mode or with a 'messier' sound altho i'm not entirely sure what that would translate as now (more going on within each track/higher density + less space? more chaotic triggering? more abrasive noise/fx?)

or maybe they just love both strains equally so naturally want to incorporate elements and influences of both into their sound, gaining and losing in the process. it doesn't mean shit that it's not as funky as James Brown or as housey as Todd Terry as a result.

Well, it means they lose the interest of people like me, who don't much care for the "indie sound", but on the other hand win those people who don't much care for "proper" dance. I know several people for whom this is basically the only type of of dance music they'll listen to. Not that there's anything wrong with it, of course indie kids can have their own dance if they want to.

Well, it means they lose the interest of people like me, who don't much care for the "indie sound", but on the other hand win those people who don't much care for "proper" dance.

these 'disregard an entire genre/sound/whatever' people are weirdos so good riddance imho

You mean there aren't any genres you'd disregard as a whole? Like death metal? Or polka? Or MOR? Or gabba? I think people who like everything, and for whom there isn't any genre or sound they'd dislike are quite rare among us.

Anyway, I think one of the core audiences of "indie dance" is exactly the sort of people who'd disregard a genre/sound - in this case, "proper" dance - as a whole, and are only willing to accept in an indiefied form.

Like death metal? Or polka? Or MOR? Or gabba?

all of these are pretty dope tuomas stfu

i disregard rave music

i am struggling with death metal tho i must admit.

But like I said, there's nothing wrong with it as such. I'm equally intolerant in my wholesome disregard for indie as a genre and sound. You gotta have aesthetic preferences in the endless land of music.

(xxx-post)

Like death metal? Or polka? Or MOR? Or gabba?

all of these are pretty dope tuomas stfu

I didn't mean their not dope, but lots of music fans dismiss them as whole genres, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

you (intentionally) picked very marginalised genres for your counter-argument anyway.

I don't think death metal is that much more marginalized than indie, at least not in Finland it is.

*crowd goes wild*

For fuck's sake.

hey lets have an argument about if something is indie or not

-- and what, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 18:15 (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^we should have done this instead

I can see why this album is slightly difficult to place but yikes.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2589/458334849cc2b5293c2bim2.gif

Of course indie is more popular than death metal in Britain, its home country, but if you go to places like Germany or Spain, I'm sure you'll find more Slayer than Smiths fans there.

slayer aren't death metal, tard

Britain has a claim to being the home of death metal as well.

I stayed away from this record for a while because I thought it was like Sublime or something (her name reminds me of "Santeria"), but I picked it up and it's badass. I can see why you'd think it's indie; the first track sounds like Interpol, but the record is all over the place stylistically.[/ obvious]

-- Euler, Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:45 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

typically high-quality ILM musical analysis

Another highly influential band, Slayer, formed in 1981. Although the band is a thrash metal act, Slayer's music is more violent than thrash metal contemporaries Metallica, Megadeth or Exodus.[31] Slayer is regarded as one of the most sinister thrash metal bands from the early 1980s[32] and are considered the ancestors of and directly responsible for the rise of death metal.[33][34] Their breakneck speed and instrumental prowess combined with lyrics about death, violence, war and Satanism won Slayer a rabid cult following.[35] According to Allmusic, their third album, Reign in Blood, inspired the entire death metal genre[36] and had a big impact on the genre leaders: Death, Obituary and Morbid Angel.[31]

thank you tuomas

thank you n/a I aim to please

German Music Charts July 11, 2008

1 1 "All Summer Long" Kid Rock
2 2 "Helden 2008" Revolverheld
3 3 "Feel The Rush" Shaggy / Trix & Flix
4 5 "Seven Nation Army" White Stripes, The
5 4 "So Soll Es Bleiben" Ich + Ich
6 9 "Better In Time" Lewis, Leona
7 8 "Take A Bow" Rihanna
8 7 "Mercy" Duffy
9 6 "Bringt Ihn Heim" Pocher, Oliver
10 10 "Love Is You" Godoj, Thomas
11 - "We Made It" Rhymes, Busta Feat.linkin Park
12 11 "Fieber" Stuermer, Christina
13 13 "4 Minutes" Madonna
14 12 "Summer Love" Medlock, Mark
15 19 "No Air" Sparks, Jordin
16 36 "Can You Hear Me" Enrique Iglesias
17 15 "Wenn Nicht Jetzt Wann Dann" Hoehner
18 18 "Valerie" Ronson, Mark Feat. Winehouse
19 14 "Strike The Match" Monrose
20 20 "I'm Yours" Mraz, Jason

One White Stripes song. No Slayer. Indie it is.

Metal is an album genre.

I listening to the "L.E.S. Artistes" remixes and they're this weird mixture of badass and unfulfilling. It's probably not a good thing that my favorite track on the EP is the instrumental of the original track, right?

I like her record. "Creator" and maybe "Unstoppable" are the only songs that resemble MIA though. She's much more new-wave than whatever MIA is.

there's more pre-dancehall reggae in the mix, too

Ah. Well, apart from Bob Marley, I'm not familiar with reggae, so I wouldn't know.

I think I need to clean out my ears or maybe I have another record cause I hear very little MIA in her Santogold. Hmmmmm

lol she is opening act on coldplay tour

well theyve used some of the same producers and have similar fan bases and aesthetics - their vocals dont really sound alike tho

I really wanted to hate her and was really resistant based on some notion that she was an M.I.A. clone and I needed to stay loyal or something. But not only is Creator the only track that is vaguely M.I.A.ish, but it is also not really up there with the best stuff on the album. L.E.S.artistes is like the Police, but with a spacier, bassier feel.

Dig that yelp, too.

I was sure Lights Out being in the beer commercials would wear it out for me eventually, but it's only making me like it more when I hear it every 20 minutes.

She has music in three separate commercials now!

I never complain about this type of shit, but I am v. sick of her Moby tactic.

lights out is incredibly good

Top Ranking is pretty choice, huh.

Yeah it's good stuff.

"Get It Up" is fucking awesome. I want to listen to this one song on repeat forever.

i'm late to this one, but i'm enjoying "Lights Out" best - interesting vocal choice there. Yes she sounds like Gwen Stef and MIA, but it's much more informed by early 80s New York than anything else which is never a bad thing. Do prefer the punky stuff better.

I am v. sick of her Moby tactic.

which would be?

how come no one stands up for "I'm a lady" on this thread?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/pop/393802_musicsellingout29.html

I'm sympathetic to Pareles' gripe, but he doesn't seem to realize it's just that, a gripe.

Unlike non-professional music fans who might immerse themselves in a song or album they love, music licensers want a track that's attractive but not too distracting -- just a tease, not a revelation.

So are Beatles songs "a tease, not a revelation?" Cuz I've heard them in plenty of ads. Lots of canonical songs from previous decades wind up in ads, why should we assume that songs from today in ads can't hold a similar stand-alone weight? And while I'm happy to say Moby's Play is some background pleasant-at-best, it won Pazz'n'Jop that year, so a bunch of people must have thought it was revelation.

It's almost enough to make someone miss those former villains of philistinism, the recording companies. Labels had an interest in music that would hold listeners on its own terms; selling it was their meal ticket. Labels, and to some extent radio stations and music television, also had a stake in nurturing stars who would keep fans returning to find out what happened next, allowing their catalogs to be perennially rediscovered.

I wonder if Pareles, in his long-ass career, has ever bitched about record labels ignoring idiosyncratic artists and spending their money promoting faceless schmaltz factories that sound more pleasing on the radio.

Now there's an incentive for a song to have only 30 seconds of good stuff. It's already happening: Chris Brown's hit "Forever" is wrapped around a jingle for chewing gum.

While the incentive was for Chris to incorporate a jingle, if you didn't know the Doublemint tag, you wouldn't know which part of the song was "the good stuff." It's not a good example of a song that's only good for 30 seconds, like say, "Who Let The Dogs Out?"

Put on a song with no commercial attachments. Turn it up. Close your eyes. And listen.

And if you don't watch ads, you won't know which songs have them.

Actually, since he called them "former villains of philistinism," maybe he's suggesting that advertisers are going to bring about a stream of bands worse than Toto.

O noes, we've lost another critic. And Toto had a buch of awesome singles dammit.

Now we'll have to settle for bands that are only as good as Toto...for 30 seconds! For the rest of the song they'll just kinda stand around wondering what to do.

But how soon will it be before musicians, perhaps unconsciously, start conceiving songs as potential television spots, or energy jolts during video games, or ringtones?

Also, Pareles should be old enough to realize that anybody who says "I break the rules!" in a chorus probably isn't much of an "insurgent, quirky rule-breaker" at heart.

I loved the Santogold album until I realized that. Actually it might have been the song where she told Barack Obama to fuck himself first, but yeah, real punks don't wear black so ostentatiously, or vomit gold either.

this seems otm though, and would explain so much popular modern music:

"That creates pressure, subtle but genuine, for music to recede: to embrace the element of vacancy that makes a good soundtrack so unobtrusive, to edit a lyric to be less specific or private, to leave blanks for the image or message the music now serves. "

avant-rockers Battles are heard accompanying an Australian vodka ad.

The question is: What happens to the music itself when the way to build a career shifts from recording songs that ordinary listeners want to buy to making music that marketers can use?

Yeah I'm pretty sure that their ability to sell vodka in australia is really going to figure in to what battles does in the future. Even if there is a single example of the downstream effect he is describing (where music "recedes") good luck actually finding it.

It's almost enough to make someone miss those former villains of philistinism, the recording companies. Labels had an interest in music that would hold listeners on its own terms; selling it was their meal ticket. Labels, and to some extent radio stations and music television, also had a stake in nurturing stars who would keep fans returning to find out what happened next, allowing their catalogs to be perennially rediscovered.

This is just gauzy memory-filter nonsense.

Actually it might have been the song where she told Barack Obama to fuck himself first

hang on which one is this? i have literally paid no attn to santogold's lyrics other than 'l.e.s. artistes' and the line "brooklyn we go hard" - she doesn't enunciate at all - it's amazing that i like her songs as much as i do without a lyrical entry point. the 'l.e.s. artistes' lyrics are really great, though.

this seems otm though, and would explain so much popular modern music:

"That creates pressure, subtle but genuine, for music to recede: to embrace the element of vacancy that makes a good soundtrack so unobtrusive, to edit a lyric to be less specific or private, to leave blanks for the image or message the music now serves. "

yeah, in the future music will be nothing but generalities and repetitive, obvious hooks! OMG POP HOW WILL I RECOGNIZE YOU?

in the sense that artists are prob now thinking of what advertisers will like in the same way they once thought of what radio playlisters would like.

Labels, and to some extent radio stations and music television, also had a stake in nurturing stars who would keep fans returning to find out what happened next, allowing their catalogs to be perennially rediscovered.

This is especially LOL, as in the '80s the bitch would be that labels were nurturing stars instead of supporting artists. Now no one's going to mind the factory! They'll just take your jingle and leave you to your own devices! Gasp!

in the sense that artists are prob now thinking of what advertisers will like in the same way they once thought of what radio playlisters would like.

which is the latest fashions, obvious hooks and unchallenging lyrical sentiments in both cases.

xpost to Lex: Maybe I (willfully) misinterpreted the chorus "We think you're a joke / Shove your hope where it don't shine" but it seemed pretty pointed to me.

hmm i've just looked at the lyrics to 'shove it' for the first time and the entire song makes literally not a jot of sense - obama doesn't own the word "hope", and nothing else in the song suggests that she's referring to him, or to anything much. she's never expressed any political views as such, has she? i suspect she's a bit of a div so i've never paid attention to what she says too much.

Brooklyn we go hard
We on the look for the advantage, we work hard
And if we seem to rough it up a bit
We broke but we rich at heart
Pull ourselves up now we won't choke
It's our time, put the lights on us

War tactics they make me sick
reel your heart in run away with it
Smile in your face, undermine your back
got guns for the strength they lack
So if you know another way
you can't look the other way
if you know another way,
tell them so right to their face

We think you're a joke
Shove your hope where it don't shine (4x)

I pay for what's called
eccentricity and my will to evolve
I hear them all say
that I got heart
but not everything that it takes

Taint my mind but not my soul
Tell you I got fire
I wont sell it for no payroll
Let 'em hold me down
I know if I know another way
I can't look the other way
I know another way
I'll tell them so right to their face

We think you're a joke
Shove your hope where it don't shine (4x)

This reads like a generic "fight the system" song; the only link to Obama is the word "hope".

if anything the nameless "they" of the song seems to be the same "they" of 'l.e.s. artistes' and half the album, ie the people santogold would have encountered as an a&r in the entertainment industry around her every day.

I thought "a&r" was "they"

love the album but her borough repping is on some http://www.defendbrooklyn.com/new_store/bk_black_t_drunkgirl.jpg level shit

yeah but didn't "hope" didn't signify "obama" this year? that's only my take, after all.

might have liked it anyway if it wasn't for all the other stuff i didn't like.

Album came out in late April. No idea when it was actually completed though, but not hard to believe the reference had little to do with Obama.

This interview from February indicates she was an Obama supporter btw.

http://blog.rhapsody.com/2008/02/super-tuesday-s.html

yeah okay doesn't matter though

that line struck me as weird this year too & i couldnt parse it but im willing to believe it was just a coincidence

she's been writing songs her whole adult life - id caution against the idea that this song was written in reaction to or even around the rise of obama

what does that line about 'her whole adult life' have to do with it jordan? i'm older, i've been listening to music my whole adult and child life, she decided to get tough using the year's main signifier and it happened to clang harshly off my ears. it's actually WORSE if she is just singing another song about her poor artistic struggles, does she not have any other topics?

enough. my points are like this: 1. that's how i heard it so that's how i hear it; 2. my not-liking of that song is PART of why i don't like the album; 3. i might be wrong about this BUT WHO CARES. certainly not her, she's from brooklyn, SHE GOES HARD.

also it kind of pissed me off when she said that anyone who thinks she's r&b is just racist and lumping her in with r&b because she's black. what, is she a music critic too? ew, gross.

o_0

relax man - just like you're throwing out the possibility that it's a song about obama im throwing out the possibility that she wrote the song before obama/hope was really a thing

jordan i just wanted to understand your point. i guess now i do. but don't worry, i'm really really relaxed right now. thanks for the advice though!

thank you for not transcribing spank rock's verse on shove it

also it kind of pissed me off when she said that anyone who thinks she's r&b is just racist and lumping her in with r&b because she's black. what, is she a music critic too? ew, gross.

lol

whos said shes R&B? but to be fair, you could see how someone might hear some of the beat-driven tracks on the album and make the link.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3zzumkz2joj

santogold + project pat 2gether at last

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Santogold&rh=n%3A39%2Ck%3ASantogold&page=1

lolololololol good job, Amazon

Did you find what you were looking for? Yes No

"Mark Ronson In Studio" is still fucking hilarious btw.

lawsuit from Santo Gold (jeweler) -> she's now called santigold -> http://www.myspace.com/SANTiGOLD

should've gone with Santos L. Halper

santis partyhouse

I just recently saw the video for Creator, the one song I really like. It's one of the worst videos I've ever seen

In general I think the MIA comparisons are apt not only sonically, but because she has the same half-assedness about her vocals and her persona -- actually much more half-assed than MIA on the latter.

also they both live in clinton hill and think its bed stuy

OH DAMN

pre-brooklyn go hard i dug that shove it joint when i heard it last year on a mixtape after sensual seduction but clicking that vid up top is killin me - folks really argued she wasnt jackin MIA?? how many people could you play that for sight unseen & tell them its the new MIA joint and theyd be like, oh it doesnt sound like her? or ask em who it is & see who comes up

i still think shes cuet inna diamond from crime mob kinda way

Lyrics of that song are also annoying - "I'm creative! I break the rules!" also "I run the streets" - wtf does that even mean when she says it?

i enjoy her music but yah

i dunno i do kinda see her & mia as good role models for young girls who maybe 10 yrs ago woulda gravitated towards i dunno tori amos or some such garbage

hah dont let the lex see that

Lyrics of that song are also annoying - "I'm creative! I break the rules!" also "I run the streets" - wtf does that even mean when she says it?

― You just got HAPPENED (Hurting 2), Thursday, February 12, 2009 4:49 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahaha ya. i enjoy like 60% of what i've heard but that song is kinda wtf

whos the herb on the decks wearing the "baltimore int'l" shirt

if a year or two from now diplo is collaborating w/another woman of color on some poppy/dancey/rappy shit will that be sort of weird

Actually I was told is was "the real Santogold"... http://www.santogold.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsulZKXFxK8

First time I've ever heard that. I knew Santi had worked on some of Ashlee's songs, and kept meaning to go back and check into it. I LIKES.

Had this since around the year it came out. I really didn't get it. Thought it was half cooked pop rock/MIA wannabe bull. However, listening to it on the way to work and realized it sounded great as a whole. I mean it's influences is worn on its sleeve still, but at least I "get" it now. Plus I tend to forget that MIA is a half cooked Neneh Cherry so it all evens out.

this music is just fucking terrible terrible shit, don't even put neneh's name near this thread

um...wow. It's not that deep or crucial.

And plus, it's hard not to bring up Neneh since she is one of the obvious precursor of these two women.

This album has some awesome songs on it. Any news on an LP2?

New song with Karen O! http://www.lagasta.com/santigold-%E2%80%9Cgo%E2%80%9D-feat-karen-o/

(could a mod change this thread title from "Santogold" to "Santigold" plz?)

NO NEVAH

btw this song is badass

Hey @_M_I_A_ Have you lost a b-side somewhere? I think Santogold and Karen O might know somethin about it...
MrTayloreyes 2 days ago

Still happy she's making new stuff tho

i really like this song

sorta like bow wow wow produced by timbaland

karen's parts of this are way better than santi's

Agree with others. This song is great and it has that "Oh wow of course these two should do a song together" thing to it. I was worried Santigold was going to be an indie one album wonder.

Hey @_M_I_A_ Have you lost a b-side somewhere? I think Santogold and Karen O might know somethin about it...
MrTayloreyes 2 days ago
― The Sunspots In Your Eyes Are Actually Cataracts, Mr. Rudich (AWALL), Monday, 18 April 2011 02:20 (Yesterday)

pulled this album out and not sure why i bought it, "creator" slays but the rest = zzzzz city

rong

whoops you don't like "lights out"

ilxor revives like this are him putting a bag of flaming dog crap on ilx's collective porch, except we always fail to realize that the house won't burn down if we don't put it out

lights out is gold

The new Beastie Boys collab is mighty fine imo.

yeah alright "lights out" is pretty alright, the rest of the album is like m.i.a. playing uninteresting pop-punk/ska tunes tho

ilxor revives like this are him putting a bag of flaming dog crap on ilx's collective porch

pretty sure the Santogold thread is not ilx's collective porch, unless we're ignoring the 500 people who worship new order in favor of the 10 who like santigold???

Can we change this title to Santigold yet?

New track!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxdQ_uD5IWk

she has to be totally baiting the m.i.a. thing at this point, right?

song is kinda hot tho

okay yay Santi, I am super interested in you again

There's also this song she guest on by Amadou & Mariam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfJ-EmoQil8

*guests

that percussion is like receiving an unrefusable order to break yo fuckin neck

love amadou & mariam so much! "taxi bamako" was my morning hangover music for like three years

Yeah, everyone seemed to know about Amadou & Mariam besides me, so thanks to Santi for giving me an "in". Definitely have listened to them on Spotify in the past couple weeks.

Disparate Youth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgUTVzg8Gn8

^not bad.

damn good.

There's a stream of the new album here http://disconaivete.com/post/21321079127

It sounds a lot more understated than I was expecting. Disparate Youth is the best thing on here by a mile.

I can't get that stream to work for whatever reason

Yeah, most of the tracks aren't even playable.

Maybe it only works for people in the UK? I only found as someone put a link up on the Popjustice forum.

Listening to it now and, while understated, it's fantastic the whole way through. "The Keeper" borrows a little of its contruction/melody from "Little Red Corvette" in a great way.

"Disparate Youth" is one of my singles of the year.

It's one of mine too, cannot believe it only reached number 96 in the charts here. The whole album is really good but that song just blows the rest away.

I know it's not that uncommon but a performer who invites audience members up on stage with her is always going to make me like them that little bit more.

Really like this album - disparate youth (obv) but The Riot's Gone is also pretty outstanding - but absolutely love her live show. The dancers are amazing!

"Disparate Youth" is one of my singles of the year.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:25 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^^

"The Keepers" is almost as good. The rest -- meh.

look at these hoes

i like the slow elegiac ones on this. "disparate youth", "the riot's gone", "god from the machine", "the keepers".

"freak like me" and "look at these hoes" are embarrassing shit that santi should leave to, idk, az banks or someone.

everything else is kinda ok.

funny reading the obama debate over the "shove your hope where it don't shine" line upthread b/c i really can't help but hear it like that now!

Strange how little attention this album is getting. I'm also underwhelmed. It's OK. But I half thought she had the ability to do something new and surprising. My favorite thing she's been involved in is still the Diplo / Santogold Top Ranking Dub mixtape album. So much fun.

lex i totally heard that line that way when i first heard it

(and still do, ahem)

Yeah this is kinda boring, I really like the single, but overall she's much better at doing glossy reggae and dub-inflected pop-rock than she is at doing crazy electro or fake dancehall or whatever Diplo or Switch or whoever are throwing at her. And there's not really enough of the former.

but there's not v much crazy electro or fake dancehall here, and the bits there are are the weakest bits. santigold isn't actually good at "fun" music, her most distinctive forte is how jaded and weary and grumpy she sounds. the best songs are fairly straightforward pop-rock ballads with the occasional interesting sonic/rhythmic detailing.

i mean at her best she sounds like she wants to withdraw into herself and for the rest of the bullshit world to fuck off, and anything else is a compromise she has to navigate - and what she REALLY does well is making that sentiment sound anthemic and resonant

i mean did anyone actually pay attention to the words of "l.e.s. artistes", her calling card?

and "disparate youth", this album's calling card?

I never bother to listen to indie lyrics unless they're obviously brilliant or terrible, otherwise they're just cool sounds to go with the music - case in point being the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. I think agree with Lex on the best tracks and it's probably no coincidence that at least one of them sounds like a YYYs ballad.

Shame about this album really because I kinda wanted her to grow as an artist but this still feels like the serial collaborator's album it is. Like she'd mixing and matching from 30 years worth of art school artifice without working out which bits she's best at (answer - post-punk and pop-rock).

New single is great. Not sure about the video though, but the song sounds like a cross between "Little Red Corvette", "Running Up That Hill", and "Stand Back".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpn8xNW-sfs&feature=player_embedded#!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpn8xNW-sfs&feature=player_embedded

Sorry, I'll try one last time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpn8xNW-sfs&feature=share

ooh good choice for a single

btw I love this whole album

I like it, but not excitedly like I did the first album. "The Keepers" is my favorite song here, so I'm glad it was chosen as a single.

I love the whole album too.

This and "Disparate Youth" are the best.

Yeah I really like the whole album too, surprised it's had such a lukewarm reaction. Agree that The Keepers is one of the highlights. I also really love This Isn't Our Parade and The Riot's Gone.

when this album is good it is so, so great - she conveys jaded yearning so well

santigold isn't actually good at "fun" music

I disagree with this a lot, unsurprisingly

man "The Keepers" sounds so good after several months' distance

New single and album!

http://pitchfork.com/news/61940-santigold-announces-new-album-99-shares-cant-get-enough-of-myself/

This is a great single!

did you guys know Res' "Golden Boys" was written about Mos Def? ~gossip~

Love the single, it's so much fun. Looking forward to the album. Does it have a release date?

Can maybe a mod change the thread title to: "Santogold/Santigold" ? I feel like it would help with searching.

This is a great single!

Was just coming here to say the opposite. Ehh.

Very cool album cover, tho.

Like, if Gwen Stefani had released this song, I think it was surprisingly good. But for Santi to do it, I find it a letdown.

Single's OK but nowhere near as good as "Disparate Youth".

Single's OK but nowhere near as good as "Disparate Youth".

― daavid, Thursday, November 5, 2015 5:38 AM (12 hours ago)

Yes but that's unfair, that's like her best single of all time.

I like it because backing track sounds very inspired by William Onyeabor. What's not to like?

"Disparate Youth" and "The Keepers" are two of the best singles of the last five years imo

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Such a shame that neither of those songs were hits. The second album was really underrated.

It had that wide, instant appeal that great pop songs have. Almost everytime it gets played on one of my bars people ask what song it is.

I just listened to "Banshee" and my first reaction was "huh, this is garbage" ;_;

Loved the first single, not feeling the subsequent two singles.

There seems to be absolutely no hype for this album at all. I didn't even know there had been two other singles.

I had no idea she had a new album coming. I just remember that one summer in the 00's when she was playing in like everyone bar I went to.

The album is now streaming on NPR. I am two songs into it. It's remarkably terrible.

The first two songs make "Banshee" seem tolerable, btw

That's a shame. The cover art is wonderful

Half of this album is really great and half of it is kind of forgettable. Banshee has grown on me a lot since I first heard it a couple of weeks ago. Kind of reminds me of something on Ze Records.

Love that she's brought some of the new wave influences back from her first album on Rendezvous Girl and Who I Thought You Were. Apart from those two songs, the second half is kind of a drag. There's one that sounds like a really bad Siouxsie & The Banshees impression.

Chasing Shadows is so good. Her version of Need Ur Love by Charli XCX.

When I heard Chasing Shadows I thought it was the same sample as hard knock life

iLoveMakonnen collaborations sound so patronizing and are bad

This is kind of fun:

https://cantgetenoughofmyself.webcam/

Mods should change thread name to Santogold / Santigold

I genuinely never expected to care or even particularly think about her again but the new album is excellent.

will check it out but my first reaction when I saw this thread bumped was "oh yeah, her, lol"

Yeah, The Gold Fire Sessions is a lot of fun. It really took me by surprise. I hope people don't sleep on it.

What there’s a new record??
Mods please fix this thread title. It’s Santi
I liked maybe three tracks off 99 cents - apt title, why would one pay more for that record really.

Disparate youth is a summer anthem forever

Moka otm

whole thing's on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRfDPgKHS28

Been playing the crap out of this.. esp "Valley of the Dolls"

doesn't it bother anyone that this thread title is misspelled? how does anyone even find it to revive it?

She was called Santogold initially right up until the release of her first album (called Santogold)

(Later retitled)

oh well that makes sense. because for a long time in my head I thought that was the name and then when I saw it wasn't I just attributed it to this thread.

Debut album still had the “Santogold” moniker, she changed it in 2009 because she was sued by “Santo Gold, a jeweller, filmmaker and infomercial-based salesman”

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/feb/12/santogold-becomes-santigold

the point still stands that the thread title should be amended.

don't erase history

just amend it.

#istandwithsantogold

Anyone ever hear her pre-Santigold band Stiffed? I absolutely love the EP they put out Sex Sells which I reviewed at the time for Alternative Press.

http://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Xkfo7sPcL.jpg

It was produced by Darryl Jennifer of the Bad Brains and Chuck Treece played drums. Such a great record! Catchy and fun! It doesn't seem to be streaming anywhere (unlike the follow-up full-length which is very good but not great) but the CD can be bought for a pittance.

Wasn't the thread called Santogold/Santogold at some point, or did I imagine that? Why not call it that so it appears on all the searches?

I'm not a data scientist but I don't think it would make any difference

I meant Santogold/Santigold obv.

hey guys there's an album out

feel free to talk about it

I'm not a data scientist but I don't think it would make any difference

lmao

she calls it an albim now xp

This is alright but after 99 Cents anything would seem halfway decent. Maybe it’s a grower

how the fuck am I going to find the Santogold thread now

New track!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuyIFjnyZ7Q

What, no one cares? :(

I feel like this is pretty good!

It is!

“Shake” is even better!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5IBsFE74gQ

But yeah it’s shaping up to be a good one.

New album's good! Not breaking new ground, she has her lanes, but lots of good tunes.

She cancelled due to touring being pretty much unsustainable atm in a post-covid world with rising inflation for most artists. I feel like I keep hearing more and more about similar situations, both local and internationally… It’s getting too expensive to tour and venues and concert organizers are not willing to take risks or will pay the bare minimum.

https://i.redd.it/2dnd1dr8naq91.jpg

I mean the issues are obviously way deeper and more complicated than that but yeah, shit’s too expensive.

Brutal. Was just reading the Stereogum article and comments: https://www.stereogum.com/2200830/santigold-cancels-tour-shares-letter-about-harsh-reality-for-touring-artists/news/

No one seems to be saying that people are staying home because of covid anymore? This scenario sounds more like she bioked a little bigger venues than she might've and couldn't sell enough tickets?

otoh Arooj Aftab recently put out a similar statement on making no money and she's filling places and playing festivals.

Jem Aswad's piece on it is worth a read.

https://variety.com/2022/music/news/santigold-cancels-north-america-tour-devastating-costs-1235384821/

Her cancelation speaks to a growing problem as festivals and touring artists returned after two years of lockdown: Audiences can’t or won’t return in sufficient numbers to support all of the tours and festivals that are taking place, due to ticket prices, too many options, Covid caution or all three. While attendance numbers might be great for Harry Styles or Lady Gaga, for the average touring musician, it’s tougher than ever.

What this will mean for the music world remains to be seen: Touring has been the primary source of income for working musicians ever since illegal downloading and then streaming upended many artists’ business models — they came to accept that they would not make money from recordings, as they had during the CD and vinyl eras, but those recordings would bring people to their shows, where they could make money from ticket and merchandise sales. But if their tours are failing after two years without road work, it’s hard to see what the next option might be.

I'll only speak for myself, but ticket prices are what is keeping me away from more shows at this point. If it isn't "dynamic pricing" bullshit or paying 40% of the ticket price in fees, it's the frustration of trying to figure out which secondhand ticket websites are reasonably priced and aren't just cleverly designed in-house "scalpers" for Ticketmaster or whoever.

None of which is the fault of the artist, but it's less stressful to just kick them extra dollars by buying merch direct or kicking in via bandcamp.

Which is to say, I don't mind paying more for tickets if I know it's going to the artist directly, but it seems like the higher cost is just bullshit fees that I absolutely know aren't going to the artist.

The extra fees are not going to the artist because as I understand it the artist is already getting a lot of the face ticket price (depending on the artist, of course). Those extra fees are often going to the venue and promoter and other third parties, many of whom (not to defend the fees) also lost a ton of work and money the last two years, and are facing the same increased costs and whatnot. It all adds up. For example, a ticket to see Earth and Iceage at the Empty Bottle tomorrow night, is $30, plus $7 in fees. That's as indie as it gets, hardly money grubbing Live Nation, and we're still talking $75 or so for a pair of tickets to see two small bands on a Wednesday night. Tortoise at Thalia Hall is similarly priced, and $10 more for seated, er, seats.

There does seem to be a glut of touring acts right now, and many tours that have been repeatedly rescheduled that are all hitting at once. I'm thinking of tours by the Weeknd or Killers, to name two recent big acts belatedly touring after covid or covid related delays. Sucks a lot of air out of the room, at least at that level. I was supposed to be seeing Tinariwen soon, but they cancelled a bunch of dates for visa issues, a problem that as I understand it has risen due to covid related backlogs and under staffing. I'm seeing Meshuggah this week, and I think it's a rescheduled date, too (don't know why). I was going to see Crowded House last week; they cancelled and rescheduled for (non-covid) health reasons, but this was still a belated tour behind an album that came out 14 months ago.

I mean Empty Bottle and Thalia Hall are both examples of how things work well, ime. They both make it relatively easy to get tickets and I don't find their fees to be ridiculous. It's when you start moving to larger venues where things get more frustrating.

Out of curiosity, I checked out a couple other Chicago venues/shows to see the state of things:

Calexico at The Metro is a $29 ticket with a $9.22 "ticket fee" and a $1.00 "restoration fee" (which isn't one I recall seeing before, meaning fees are 35% of the face value.
Father John Misty at Chicago Theater is a $39.99 balcony ticket, total cost with fees is $58.69 (couldn't log in to see the breakdown), meaning fees are 47% of the face value.

Yeah, I have no idea how much is too much in fees beyond my own personal case by case price ceiling. But I think I mentioned on a different thread, weeks ago, that when I asked my friend (who would know) how much of the ticket price goes to the band, he deadpanned "105%." Implication being without those fees a lot of venues and promotors and the related like wouldn't be making much, if anything. No idea how accurate that is, though I have no reason not to believe my friend. For sure in similar fields, like the food industry, things suck right now. My favorite burger/hot dog stand down the street just closed after 10 years because even little things, like plastic ketchup containers, had gone up 10x in price, and they couldn't sustain that kind of hike in the face of a tightening economy. Or the way menus keep sneaking on that extra 3% (or more) to the bill. Operating costs of everything are sky high right now, and that money has to come from somewhere, especially now that business-sustaining checks from state and federal have dried up, or are drying up.

Anyway, you'd think something's got to give. But looks like ticket sales were pretty good for someone like Father John Misty (I just looked and it's mostly full). Santigold was going to play the Aragon? That's pretty big. When she last played here, back in 2019, she was at the Vic!

A young artist I've been following, Niki, seems to be selling out theaters in every city on her current tour. I have no doubt the factors Santigold described are putting the squeeze on artists in a certain category, but it doesn't just seem to be the Harry Styleses or Lady Gagas of the world (as that Variety article says) who are selling out venues.

xp - I don't doubt that venues and everyone along the chain are suffering and dealing with increased costs, I'm sure that's true. I think this is where it might help to have more transparency about what the fees mean, but that ship has long since sailed. Ticketmaster and others have abused the opaque and byzantine "fees" labyrinth for so long that I think people are, understandably, skeptical about where that money may actually go. I mean, I know Metro and some venues actually give you the option to tack on more money, independent of the fees, to donate to the Chicago Independent Venue League (CIVL). I'd rather toss money there than some unknown "fee". None of which is to say that the fees aren't going to the venues and staff that need it, but Ticketmaster has trained me to be very skeptical that it will be going in the right pockets when I buy tix from bigger venues (not talking places like Empty Bottle or Thalia Hall here).

Back on topic, I don't doubt that all of the problems and hurdles she identifies are very real, but I can't help but wonder if her six year absence might mean she was overshooting a little bit on the size of venues.

I agree that things seem to be overbooked right now, all 3 shows I've been to this year I've heard people talk about how there was something else crosstown that they also wanted to go to. Covid in general is still a huge factor. When I saw Animal Collective in Madison it was actually rescheduled from a couple months earlier, since someone in the crew got it and they had to postpone 2 weeks worth of shows. I have to imagine that had a pretty big financial impact & a lot of bands probably just couldn't handle something like that happening.

As bad as the touring situation is I think a lot of issues could be alleviated if we had politicians who actually looked out for musicians. If streaming services were forced to actually pay a fair royalty to artists it might make these tours feel a bit less life-and-death. Just a thought there

Yeah, I mean the streaming issue is a whole separate thing.

It's just incredibly bleak for artists right now - don't get paid shit for streaming, can't press their records and can't even make money from touring.

Honestly, I wonder if the ever shrinking presence of the music press has had an impact as well. Multiple times this week alone I told someone that I saw Roxy Music the other night, and they literally had no idea the band was in town.

Love this album. "No Paradise"!